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Creators & Guests

Host
Mikki Williden

What is Mikkipedia?

Mikkipedia is an exploration in all things health, well being, fitness, food and nutrition. I sit down with scientists, doctors, professors, practitioners and people who have a wealth of experience and have a conversation that takes a deep dive into their area of expertise. I love translating science into a language that people understand, so while some of the conversations will be pretty in-depth, you will come away with some practical tips that can be instigated into your everyday life. I hope you enjoy the show!

Transcribed using AI transcription, errors may occur. Contact mikki for clarification

00:08
Hey everyone, it's Mikki here. You're listening to Mini Mikkipedia on a Monday. And today I wanna visit the glucose goddess, Jessie in Chauspays, recommendations for hacking your blood sugar. Now, I haven't read her book. I have listened to her on a few podcasts now, and I really like the premise of what she's trying to do. Ultimately, at the end of the day, she is trying to provide people with actionable information.

00:37
to help improve their health. And I love that. And yes, of course she's written a book, she's got some supplement lines, she's very well known now and she's highly successful in that, which I think is awesome. And listening to her on podcasts, she's obviously a very, well, she comes across, it feels very genuine, her desire to help people, which again, I really love. But she does get some backlash on social media from some people who are very good at going after

01:06
unconventional approaches if you like, or really trying to tear other people down on the science of their information. And this is where I really feel we need, like I'm clearly a big fan of science, but as you know from listening to me, I'm also a big fan of evidence from a range of areas and not just a randomized controlled laboratory trial where everything is, as I said, controlled and therefore the outcomes of that trial.

01:34
may not be representative of what happens in real life, but they certainly allow us to understand mechanisms better. Like, you know, what happens when we do X, how does that affect Y when nothing else changes? So I get that. I get why people want to be scientifically accurate all of the time. But I think there is always gonna be a place, particularly with the accessibility of information, for a little bit of the gray zones and gray areas where there are some people who

02:03
experience something where there is no scientific study to back up what they're experiencing. We have to be our own best investigator for, you know, how to approach health, I guess, and recommendations from so-called gurus or not. And so listening to Jessie's information, I just wanted, I suppose, to do a deeper dive into where is there good research behind what she's saying? And if not, is there justification for why she's saying it? And if you're not at all familiar

02:32
I'm gonna go over them today and just give you some insight, both from a research perspective where appropriate, and then just my clinical perspective, because that is as important in some instances as what a scientific study would say. So, Jessie's first hack is to eat foods in the right order. And she suggests that the right order to minimize a glucose spike is to have your fiber first, then eat your protein and fats,

03:01
and then eat your starches and sugar. And I guess the first thing which I need to address is why we care about glucose spikes in the first place, which really is the premise of the glucose goddesses sort of information in book. And essentially avoiding glucose spikes, one helps prevent energy crashes. So when we eat foods that are high in sugar or refined carbohydrate, our blood sugar glucose can spike rapidly.

03:29
leading to a quick release of insulin. And this causes a sharp drop in blood sugar levels, known as a sugar crash. And this crash can make you feel tired, moody, and hungry again soon after eating. And like a blood sugar drop sort of feels like you might be feeling quite satisfied after eating, then in a heartbeat, you're irritable, you're starving, and you could eat your arm off. Like if that happens, like if someone flipped a switch, then that...

03:58
tells you that it's a blood sugar response and not necessarily this physiological hunger. Another reason is to help support stable mood and focus because those rapid changes in blood sugar can affect our mood and cognitive function. Stable glucose levels helps maintain consistent energy, focus and mood, reducing irritability and brain fog. Regular high glucose spikes mean the body frequently needs to release large amounts of insulin.

04:26
And over time, this can lead to insulin resistance, where the body cells become less responsive to insulin. And insulin resistance is a precursor to type 2 diabetes and can cause a lot of the same oxidative stress and damage that high blood sugar can cause in the cells. It is worth noting that out of all of the sort of top 10 conditions that people die of just globally, including cardiovascular disease, obesity, cancers, dementia, et cetera,

04:55
People who have both type 1 and type 2 diabetes are at a greater risk of these chronic conditions due to the vascular damage that occurs through having high or elevated sugar and elevated insulin levels. Another reason to care about our glucose spikes is that it can help with weight management. Stable blood sugar can reduce cravings, making it easier to control appetite and avoid overeating.

05:23
because of course frequent spikes followed by drops can lead to a more frequent hunger leading to weight gain. And as insulin is a storage hormone, having constantly high levels means that it is shoveling glucose and fatty acids into cells to be stored. So we are more likely to store body fat when insulin levels are elevated and it's actually it does suppress fat burning also.

05:50
glucose levels are associated with increased inflammation in the body. So reason number six is to protect against inflammation as inflammation also contributes to a number of health issues, including heart disease, obesity, and some cancers. Reducing glucose spikes can also improve markers of heart health. So high blood sugar levels are linked to increased triglycerides and lower HDL and higher blood sugar. And all of these are risk factors for heart disease.

06:19
And overall, stable blood glucose levels are associated with better metabolic health, which is linked to a lower risk of chronic conditions like cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative diseases and metabolic syndrome. And frequent high blood sugar spikes can lead to glycation, which is where sugar molecules attach to proteins in the body, forming advanced glycation end products, ages. And ages are associated with accelerated aging.

06:47
mitochondrial dysfunction, so our mitochondria, the energy powerhouse of our cells, is unable to effectively work and it can lead to various chronic diseases as I've already mentioned. So in essence, managing glucose spikes isn't just about preventing diabetes, it's about overall metabolic health, energy stability and reducing risk of a range of health issues. And this is why Jessie is so interested in it. So right, to get back to hack number one.

07:17
Actually, hack number two falls into the same category as well, and it's eating foods in the right order. So that right order to eat our foods to minimize the glucose spike is fiber first, then protein and fats, and then starches and sugar. And if you look at the literature on this, there is actually some good evidence to suggest that it does make a difference to what we eat. So...

07:42
The order with which food is consumed can significantly impact postprandial blood sugar levels. And this is compared to consuming carbohydrates first. Eating vegetables before carbohydrates leads to a lower glycemic excursion, so it's blood sugar response, and better glycemic control in both healthy individuals and people with type 2 diabetes. So it actually reduces the overall area under the curve of glucose when we're looking at the glucose response.

08:11
and it does reduce those incremental glucose peaks. And it's thought that the dietary fiber content in vegetables slows down the digestion of carbohydrates and requires less insulin for metabolic disposal. Therefore, you've got less sort of other things being stored at the same time because insulin is a storage hormone. And the sequence might also stimulate in cretin hormone secretion. And those are hormones related to appetite.

08:41
further reduces our glycemic excursions. Hack number two was about eating vegetables first, which is of course what Jessie suggests, like getting a veggie starter, but also what about if it's on our plate, eating foods in the right order? This concept has been explored in various populations, including individuals with pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, and healthy adults.

09:03
And eating carbohydrates last after protein and vegetables significantly reduces those postprandial glucose and insulin levels compared to eating them first. I mentioned the impact that eating vegetables before carbohydrate has on our postprandial glucose, but also eating vegetables then protein and then carbohydrates not only lowers glucose but can result in lower insulin demand and also higher...

09:31
glucagon-like peptide 1 release, which is GLP-1 release. And that also helps in better glucose management and satiety. So what the research shows is that we have this consistent reduction of glucose spikes in insulin demand across a variety of populations. You know, this is definitely a strategy to consider if you are someone who cares about your blood sugar response, who may have pre-diabetes, or have, even anyone with type...

09:59
one or type two diabetes that wants better management of their blood sugar control. Albeit, I would say definitely drop that carbohydrate down if you do in fact have type one or type two diabetes. Now, Jessie's hack number three is stop counting calories. And this is where I feel her role as a biochemist doesn't give her insight into actual nutrition science, if I'm quite honest.

10:29
a calorie deficit matters. And for some people, counting calories is an absolutely useful tool for assisting in weight management and also reducing blood sugar spikes. So her argument is that counting calories doesn't necessarily improve health outcomes and not all calories are equal. Whilst I agree with this, that not all calories are equal.

10:52
And she also then goes to say that calories derived from fructose are more detrimental than those from glucose due to the way that they are metabolized. That is also true in a context of overeating. And this is the thing is that calorie counting can help someone manage overeating. So I just feel there's this fundamental sort of misstep in some of her hacks for health. I'm not suggesting that calorie counting is essential.

11:21
They'll know that in fact, it's with very few of my clients that I actually engage in macro and calorie counting. I'm no macro coach, despite how people might see me. I'm much more about food quality, portion size, and using other tools to assist with the calorie deficit. But for me, calorie counting was essential in allowing me to understand better the impact of how food was affecting me actually. And I feel like there are people who could gain a lot from calorie counting.

11:50
if that's the way that their minds are wired. So to say that stop counting calories, I think is actually misguided from Jessie. So I'm not a fan of hack number three, to be honest. Hack number four, a savory breakfast. So a savory breakfast, which is composed of protein, fat and fiber, if possible, optional starches and nothing sweet except optional whole fruit might be better for controlling cravings across a day. And

12:18
I would say in my clinical experience that this is maybe 60-40 true because I know people who as long as their protein is accounted for in breakfast and they have a sweetener as opposed to sugar, actually that's going to stop their sweet craving more than having just a savory breakfast. I think removing sugar from breakfast is definitely a good idea like orange juice and things which are like sugar. But.

12:44
are not sugar, you know, like bread and cereals and stuff like that. I think removing that stuff and putting in alternative flowers or having any carbohydrate you have, you have with additional protein on board, and I'll talk about that later as well, I think that can be really useful. But for some people, having sugar at the start of the day or having that sweet taste at the start of the day actually helps them control their sugar cravings later in the day.

13:14
and looking at whether a savory breakfast changes our cravings. In fact, the research is pretty resounding that actually, I mean, there are only eight papers that come up in this sort of tool I used to sort of summarize the research. And what the research shows is that a higher protein breakfast reduces post-meal cravings for sweet and savory foods compared to skipping breakfast. And...

13:39
A normal protein, so a meal that might have say 15% of the calories coming from protein also does this. Yet a higher protein breakfast does elicit a greater reduction in post-meal savoury cravings and sustains an increased dopamine production, which is associated with reduced cravings. So we get a bit of a dopamine hit, but we don't get a huge dopamine crash, which means we're not going to go seeking out foods to help hit our dopamine receptors again. And interestingly, consumption of spinach.

14:09
before breakfast or a thylakoid-rich spinach extract before breakfast significantly reduced cravings for sweet, salty, and sweet and fat snacks throughout the day, suggesting that certain breakfast components can influence cravings for various types of food. I think that's super interesting. Another study looked at craving control and found that low craving control is a significant predictor of increased intake of high-energy, dense, sweet and savory foods, particularly during stressful periods such as what the whole world had during COVID-19.

14:38
This suggests that individuals with low craving control may benefit from interventions targeting craving management to reduce snack food intake, and therefore having a savory breakfast may help do that. So there is certainly some research to support that savory breakfast idea, and if anything, I would say that avoiding actual sugar and just using like a monk fruit or a stevia-based option when you've got your protein accounted for in some healthy fats goes a long way.

15:08
Jessie's hack number five is have any type of sugar, they're all the same. And what she's really getting at here is, regardless of whether it is white sugar, brown sugar, raw sugar, honey, maple syrup, agave, dates, they are all sugar and your body will treat it the same. So if you really want some sugar, have the sugar you really want. Don't just choose one because you think that it is a healthier option, because your body doesn't see it like that.

15:37
pretty much all the same. Hack number six is pick dessert over a sweet snack. And this is because essentially going back to hacks one and two is that having sugar like chocolate cake or whatever after your meal is essentially going to help protect you from the glucose excursions that you would get from just having that sugar alone. Like if you were to have chocolate cake as an afternoon snack as opposed to directly after a meal,

16:06
your whole blood sugar response will be different. That sugar spike will lead to insulin release that can lead to a crash in blood sugar that can then lead to more cravings. So by enjoying something as a dessert post meal, one, you may eat less. And remember that it only takes about three bites to really get that sort of pleasure novelty aspect of the food accounted for. So you may eat less.

16:34
and also it's going to have less of a detrimental effect on your blood sugar response. Hack number seven is vinegar. Vinegar can be taken as a tablespoon in a tall glass of water or as a salad dressing. Ideally it would be 20 minutes before a meal though and it will reduce the spike of your meal by up to 30 percent and there is absolutely science to support this. It has long been interest, particularly in individuals at risk of

17:01
type 2 diabetes or who also already have type 2 diabetes. Several studies show that vinegar consumption with a meal can significantly reduce that postprandial glucose response in insulin levels and it does appear to be more effective if you're specifically having carbohydrates which might be more readily released into your bloodstream. So that's super interesting as well. So the anti-glycemic effects of vinegar are hypothesized to be due to the inhibition of alpha amylase, which is an enzyme.

17:31
increased glucose uptake, and mediation by transcription factors. So, vinegar may also slow gastric emptying and increase satiety, contributing to lower postprandial glucose levels. These are acute effects of sort of vinegar on a meal, so it's just worth noting that there is no sort of long-term data to show what daily vinegar intake on blood sugar levels would have. I mean, some studies do suggest some potential benefits, but more researchers needed to confirm these findings.

18:00
I would say though, it's by no means dangerous and you should give it a go. So putting like 10 to 30 mils of vinegar in water and having it either before or during a meal is thought to be most effective. And just make sure you rinse your mouth out to protect the enamel on your teeth. And as always, it appears that there is inter-individual variation. And I suppose the only way that you're going to assess if this works for you is if you are very good at

18:27
sort of self monitoring and you can sort of figure out, oh, I feel differently after the same meal or stick a continuous glucose monitor on and actually assess that impact of how a meal impacts you. But the collective evidence suggests that at that meal time level, it is in fact an effective tool. And what about hack number eight, after you eat, move. If you can use your muscles for 10 minutes to reduce the glucose spike of your meal, do it.

18:54
The research is pretty strong on this as well, actually for what it's worth. So the impact of exercise postprandial is significant and particularly for individuals with diabetes. And what we've seen is that moderate intensity exercise performed after a meal reduces that postprandial glucose response compared to no exercise. And even short sessions of moderate intensity activity, and there are a few papers suggesting 20 or 30 minutes is effective in lowering those glucose spikes.

19:24
And it's thought that exercise performed immediately after a meal is more effective at reducing those postprandial spikes than before a meal. And even if that exercise was initiated 30 minutes after a meal, it can also efficiently blank those glucose surges. Longer durations, so more than 30 minutes, are more effective in reducing glucose levels than shorter durations. And actually, whilst...

19:50
Both high intensity and continuous moderate intensity exercise can reduce those glucose levels after a meal, it might have more lasting effects. It's worth noting that in the studies that assessed this, post-perandial exercise didn't significantly increase the risk of hypoglycemia and is generally safe for individuals with diabetes. And unsurprisingly, exercise performed after a meal is more effective at lowering those glucose levels compared to exercise in the fasted state.

20:19
I guess there's more glucose around, right? So moderate intensity activity for 20 or 30 minutes is particularly beneficial. Even a short spurt of activity, like a brisk walk for 15 minutes is probably gonna be a really good idea. Jessie's hack number nine tells you to have a savory snack as opposed to a sweet snack. I won't belabor the point, you probably understand why that is, because if you're choosing a savory snack,

20:46
and I'm not suggesting hot chips or potato chips, albeit they are delicious. All those pea crisps, honestly, anything that looks like a cracker or anything like that, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about nuts, protein-based foods, bell tong, beer sticks, those kind of things. They're not going to raise blood sugar levels to the extent that a carbohydrate would. So you're going to have better control long-term on your glucose levels. And hack number 10 is put clothes on your carbs. So...

21:13
Adding protein, fat or fiber to starches and sugar reduces the speed with which glucose is released into the bloodstream. And I think that you're probably aware of that. So this is really sort of hack number one and two said another way if you like. So just don't have your carbs naked. Add that protein, add some fat if you're having carbohydrate and that's going to be better long-term for your glucose management than having those carbohydrates by themselves.

21:43
And this is one of the reasons why I'm just not the biggest fan of having just fruit as a snack. Not because fruit is inherently bad at all. It is just that it does nothing to buffer that sort of sugar response. You're better off cutting up that fruit into half and having like a tablespoon of nut butter or something like that, depending on energy management and your calorie budget. So these are the glucose hacks from the glucose goddess, and I like most of them. I really do.

22:09
One thing to be mindful of though with anything related to a health guru in one particular area is that they're only really an expert in one particular area so we cannot rely on them for as a sole source of truth and I think it's really important to consider glucose spikes but it isn't the only thing that we need to think about with health. So absolutely use these but use these in addition to all of the other awesome information you already have.

22:36
on what's healthy for you and your body and managing a healthy weight. Because it isn't just glucose. Albeit important, it's not the only thing. All right team, love to hear your thoughts on glucose goddess. Hit me up over on Instagram, threads and Twitter @mikkiwilliden, Facebook @mikkiwillidenNutrition or head to my website, mikkiwilliden.com and book a one-on-one call with me. All right team, have the best week.