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Welcome to the Stacking Slabs, a podcast for sports cards collectors. There's been a tremendous amount of change to our Hobby over the last few years and the one constant has been the passion from the collecting community. Stacking Slabs is built by the collector and lives to tell stories for the collector.
Alright. We just spent the last, I don't know, ten to fifteen minutes talking about NFL football, and Josh said, hit record.
So we're hitting record. I don't know how much more NFL takes we're gonna have. We will probably have some on here. But we do things here on Card Ladder confidential, the same way every time, and we start with a cold open question.
So we're gonna do that right here, right now. And it is, the season for the national. Everybody's talking about it. Everyone's gonna be there. Everyone's excited. And I wanted to put, Josh and Chris on the spot.
And this is mostly for all of you dealers out there who are going to be selling cards at the National. Listen up because we're about to give you if you have one of these cards, give you, some good leads.
So the question to both of you guys is, what is the one card that if it were at the national, you would, no matter what, do whatever you had to do to acquire the card.
Just one card, like, if it's sitting in a showcase and you saw it, no sticker on it even, You were would have to enter that conversation, and you would know that based on your desire for that card that you were gonna get raked over the coals, but it didn't matter because you need that card for your collection.
Chris looks like he's still thinking. I'm gonna we'll toss it to you, Josh. What is that card and why?
So am I supposed to imagine that it's, like, with somebody else? Because I know I know where this card is, and it's not gonna be at the National. Okay. Well, yeah. I guess my fan alternate universe. Right? Yeah. Alternate universe.
K. Twenty twelve prism black finite Antonio Brown. You've been hot on this card. Coming up short, can't can't get it done. I would say I've been freezing cold on this card because I don't have it. Why do you want this card so bad?
It's I think it's his best card. I think he's the best receiver of the era. And if I'm gonna call myself this receiver fantasy football running back collector, I think I need that card. Close second is the Justin Jefferson Black finite.
Rookie. Are you have you gotten anywhere on that one? I know we're both from our. Well, maybe if maybe we send, this episode out to the owners and just give them maybe how about this, Josh?
What if you would you pay for their plane ticket out to get you get a deal done in one of the month? I've offered to pay money just to get their phone numbers, bro.
I would pay to fly them anywhere in the world. What about we're just talking about kids going back to school. Would you pay, tuition for one of their children for, the first semester of the school year?
Depends. Is this Harvard or in state college? What are we talking? In state college. Yes. Alright. We're we're we're kicking things off with a bang.
I like where this is going. Chris, you've had plenty of time to think about this. What is what is your answer? I can't narrow it to one card, so I'm already breaking the rule of the question.
I have three. I have the nineteen ninety eight ninety nine SPX extreme, one of one Michael Jordan, which is a card that's never been seen, might still be in a pack.
I have the nineteen ninety eight ninety nine upper deck series one game dated one of one Michael Jordan gold.
Never been seen, might still be in a pack. And then I have my third one is the 2015, 16 select black one of one Nikola Jokic, which has been seen.
It was at the Cleveland National last year. It is in a population report. And, so I'm hoping that that one at least that one will maybe be here in Chicago this summer. What what's it been like getting back into Jordan collecting?
Are you having fun? It's been great. It's been amazing. Yeah. Jordan cards, feel a little bit different because, almost none of the dynamism or risk of the card as a concept is tied to the player.
It's all about the card. And so there's pros and cons to that. There's also a lot of fun collecting players who are actively adding to their legacies. And then you're balancing two different risks.
One, the risk of, how important actually is this type of card and then also how important is this player. But, with Jordan, you're only balancing one risk, which is how important is this type of card the player is fixed.
Does it, we don't need to get into the cost and the values and all that stuff. But because Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan, and you see the price of these cards, all you know, you're not buying a cheap Michael Jordan card anyway.
But does it give you, like, the fact that you don't have to worry about any of the risk of, like, maybe one of your current guys getting hurt or whatever? Does it make paying whatever Jordan cards cost easier to digest for you? It does.
But then as soon as that becomes the case, I I think it becomes a realistic worry that, other people are operating that way as well, and then that's how a bubble gets created is by actually the the, the the confidence that's instilled by thinking that, that there is no risk creates a risk that wasn't there before.
So you you can get a runaway market really quick, if, people are acting too confidently in it. And I I think that that's almost certainly the key.
The the only thing that call that that restrains me from making that proclamation about the market for, like, Michael Jordan inserts, which is very, very high. I think, anybody who's, like, watching that carefully would agree with that.
I think the the only thing that cautions me against being too strong on that is just because what isn't high. Mhmm. Look at look at cryptocurrencies. Look at the stock market. Look at the price of real estate.
What isn't high? Look at the price of the McDonald's double double cheeseburger, a true American staple. In 02/2007, in the city of New York, a double cheeseburger cost $1. Now in the city of New York, it costs $6.
I I think that's a pretty good indication of, of of how the the purchasing power of the dollar in a really tangible way, in an everyday transactional way, how the purchasing power power of the dollar has decreased, especially when corporate America is involved and it can exercise a little more discretion than, you know, the core basket of goods that the CPI inflation tracker is monitoring.
So I I just think there there's your six x. O seven to 25, there's your six x. And so it just went when it it's not it's so the question becomes, are Jordan inserts too high?
I mean, I mean, even relative to other cards, they are. But but, but or but how much of it is really the the debasements of the US dollar? And I think a lot of it's that. Oh, man.
Cold open question. Talk at McDonald's. My my oldest absolutely loves McDonald's. It's like the treat of all treats. And she actually asked me, it's her last day of school this week, and she asked me if I could take her to McDonald's.
And I, you know, said, if you have a good day and, you know, you're you you treat people well, maybe we'll get some McDonald's.
And what blows my mind is when I go through that drive through and get two Happy Meals, it's it's over $15, man, for two Happy Meals.
So your point is validated. I've experienced that. We're talking burgers and such, but let's move on with the show. That was good cold open. And let's just spend a second on the national, and I would you guys have gone every year.
I've known you guys, and I maybe wanna hear your opinion on what I've always appreciated about you is both of you have been like, if I go to the national, like, I don't need to buy a car.
Like, I know what I like. I know what I want. I'm not gonna be forced into buying anything.
I think a lot of people feel, like, when they go to the national and they're away from their families and they're on a plane and getting there, like, they need to make sure they leave with something.
So because you have the experience and you've been through the rodeo, many times, I guess, what is your opinion on or how do you prevent yourself or thoughts you'd give the audience?
How do you prevent yourself from buying something just to buy?
And then maybe, on the flip side, is there any advice that you have for anyone who's just trying to make sure that in this monstrous hall that if there's a card available that they might not see, they don't miss out on it?
Chris or yeah. Chris, we'll start with you. What what do you what do you think? Like, what has been your approach on from a your collecting perspective going into the national?
Well, first of all, I think the insight that we we have an increased appetite to buy things when we're in person at a show is is something worth, sitting with for a second because what is it teaching us?
And I think one of the things that it teaches us is that, there there there is something powerful about the immediacy of instant ownership of a card, and that it can it can certainly push me in the direction of buying something that I might not if it was distant and far away, like having to go through a a few week long authentication process or an evolved somewhere or something, or I can't get it for a while.
But it but it also makes me think on the flip side. So, like, that's the buyer psychology. But what about the seller psychology of all this?
So, like, it it one something I've been doing over the last two weeks, week to two weeks, like, I've I've sold a few cards, and I've traded a few cards as I've sort of been rearranging a little bit of my Michael Jordan collection.
And, the thing I've noticed is that, especially lately, when I put a card up for sale on a on a marketplace where, you know, I just list it and it's for sale and it just sits there, I'll get a few lowball offers.
I'll get a bunch of watchers. I'll get a bunch of views, but I don't really get a lot of activity.
If I but if I put a card up for sale in a collect a group of collectors, or, you know, among a network of friends or something like that, those same people who would just, like, see it on eBay and hit watch and not really take action, they're immediately DMing me wanting to buy the card.
Literally the same people. Like, I I also consolidated some Jokic cards within last month, and, like, this literally happened.
I put the cards on eBay. No action. Then I went to the group chat, and I said, hey. These are available. And immediately, lots and lots of action. So, like, the proximity to the product is it really matters.
And then so I think, like, so I think about that, and it's like, man, like, now more than ever in my experience is this the case where things sell much quicker when it's somebody who's personally connected to me is able to make the offer.
Literally, the same person would not offer on this exact card, and we're talking one of ones, cards that are that you can't get anywhere else.
They wouldn't offer through the the general marketplace, but they they all immediately offer if it's a closer connection. And then the show is just the ultimate amplification of that. Now you're face to face.
This is as personal as it gets. There is no waiting time. The card is in your hand. So the seller side the seller side of this really interests me as I've been selling some cards and and changing the PC around a little bit.
I'll just throw it out there. Do do we have any ideas or reasons why that because I as you were saying that, like, I can think of personal examples in my head.
Is it fees? Is it, knowing someone and trusting them? What is your explanation, either one of you, for kind of why this happens?
Because I think that's true, and I've just never really thought about it. I'll let Chris answer. I'm not sure. I mean, he's been thinking about it. I have some theories I could throw out.
But I I think it it is, it is a little bit frustrating waiting. I think, like, the waiting period of it all is a factor. Right now and and this isn't a a critique of any marketplace. This is true of all or most marketplaces.
It it takes a few weeks to get a card, whether it's waiting for an invoice to process and then for an auction house to ship it out or it's waiting for the card to pass through eBay's authentication, like and and it's good.
And and, you know, I think it's especially in eBay's case, I think it's cured the the the problem that we were seeing a few years ago, like, people sort of using the return policy as a dice roll and the concerns about counterfeits, I think eBay has done an amazing job of fixing that.
But but I do think that there that the weight that the trade off, the delay, I think that's a bit a little bit of a factor.
And, but then there I I just think, I I just think there is something about the human element. I mean, yours you're it's it's interesting.
This is, coming on the heels of of a flagship episode that talks about the human capital. And I wonder if you have thoughts about how human capital can lubricate deals that just don't happen in a more sterile environment.
Yeah. I so it's weird, but there's been an example. And I'll refrain from mentioning the card because I'm still trying to get the card.
And, it was presented public not not publicly. I don't know. Publicly, but in a group chat setting, I guess, that this card was going to be made available, at the national.
And may basically used as a, a means to, trade into something else. Well, I did the old DM on the side and said, you know what?
I want this card. And so I'm in card ladder looking at the history. All time high sale in a 10 was 2021, of course. There was an a nine five that sold in '23 for, half more than half the cost of the 10.
And so I made an offer, then realized what the, owner wanted. And they were looking for that in trade value, because they were trying to move up into a bigger card. And I understood his position, certainly.
But for me, it was like, we're gonna be at the my mentality was, I know you. I like you. I wanna meet up and spend some time, and if we can make a deal, like, this is a card that's kinda been on my mind a lot.
So now if that card was listed for that last 2021 comp on eBay, and it was just this is the cost of it, I'd hit favorite, but I'm not probably smashing bin because I'm debating with myself.
Like, based on all the elements of this card, is this really worth that right now?
So that's just an example that popped up into my brain, based on me having a relationship with someone and knowing that how they collect and me appreciating them.
We always seek, I think, to to make deals with people that we know and trust, especially when they have cards that are on our list.
It's a lot more fun than just kinda debating on if you should overpay for a card that's listed a certain way on a marketplace.
Josh, let's bring you into the chat here. Whether it's commenting on this thread or just maybe going back to the question of the national and just, like, buying behavior, like, how have you managed in the past?
I I think more than anyone, like, you you're you have very specific wants and needs, and you know those, and you kinda stick to it.
But just maybe any experience or thoughts you'd share with anyone going to the national who's trying to sort through what they spend or don't spend their money on. Yeah.
The advice I usually give is to go to the national with the expectation you won't find the grill you're looking for and kinda more focus on, you know, the the social aspect of meeting up with other collector friends and sharing stories and having the in person, you know, hangout that you rarely get, anywhere else because it's it's mostly online like this.
So I I usually say go into it with that. I'll zag against myself.
That's what we like to do is zag. So the zag this year for me is like, I really do want to, like, buy something. I wanna go to the show because I've expanded what I'm willing to take in from a, like, fantasy football player perspective.
It doesn't have to be a specific, you know, I'm not if if I don't find a LeBron, it's okay. So now I've expanded to some more players and one on ones and things like that.
And some of my best memories of national, like, last year was, like, Chris picking up a Christian McCaffrey one on one and walking it straight over to the booth and showing our team.
And then so those types of memories and experiences are something you can only really get at these big shows.
So, I think pursuing them and attempting to find cool cards that you can purchase and share with people in person is still a valuable experience.
So what you're saying is that if there's some badass receiver black finites, one of them out there, you're you're you're that's what you're that's what you're looking for.
Hell, yeah. Awesome. Running running backs too. Yes. Running backs too. Man, I'm excited. I feel like I don't know. It it how do you think and we'll move off of the Nashville because we've got a lot to talk about.
But how how based on us talk like, we all three of us, like, a common connection point in all of our collections is just this, like, desire, and passion for the black finite parallel.
And this is we're not the only ones. It continues to go on and on, and people are posting and sharing, and everyone loves them.
How do you think those cards like, what's your perspective on those cards at the National? Do you think everyone who's holding those, who has those in showcases realized the momentum they've had?
So, like, they're gonna be the sticker on them is gonna be, you know, three x what you'd anticipate paying for. Or I don't know. Like, what do you what do you think about those cards at the National?
Do you think we'll even see them there? Like, what's your opinions? Yeah. There's gonna be a a very competitive rush from the flippers to get their hands on those cards from dealers.
The the national traditionally when we've when we first joined the hobby in, like, the 2016 range was always centered around, like, how do dealers connect specific cards to specific collectors?
And they they did a really great job of serving that purpose of, you know, pulling a card from something else, exposing it to the market and bringing it to a specific type of collector.
Now I feel like it's kinda morphed into, like, this rush from dealers to, like, get their hands in the middle of a lot of these cards, and the dealers and the flippers have really honed in on these black finites and one of ones lately.
So it's probably gonna be a rush of, like, collectors trying to save that extra few $100 to not have to deal with the flip, and getting it from the specific dealer.
So I I can kinda sense that building up a bit, but I do expect quite a few of those cards to surface.
I want someone needs to just shoot content, and not from the point of view of the dealer, but, like, somewhat, like, documentary style.
Someone's covering the dealer activity at the National in, like, that moment from before, like, the broader show opens, just following the cards along, and see how many times cards move around, and the values, how they fluctuate.
I think that would be, super interesting.
But I'm really excited to connect with you both at the national and then anyone else out there who's going. I wanted to maybe close the loop a little bit on our finals conversation even though I don't know why I'm doing this to myself.
But want wanna talk about a player specifically, a player that is was not only instrumental in his team's final win, but also the scoring champion, MVP of the season regular season, and MVP of the finals.
I've listened to you both talk about just the rare air in MVPs that once you win to where you where you're at, and Shay Gilders Alexander is already in that conversation.
I think probably top 25 ish best seasons based on statistics you can talk about. And everyone was talking about his cards his cards were going up in value.
However, I went in the card ladder and looked at his player index. And, if you look at it from a a month point of view, which I don't know how many weeks out, we're about a month out from when the season ended. His cards are down 13.
84%, which isn't like the story, I don't think, because we've seen this before. We've seen this with Mahomes. But I I I don't hesitate to look at this and treat it as an opportunity to kind of revisit this, cycle cards go through.
Even when you're the best and you have a historic season, at the end of the season, your cards aren't always going up. So I wanna maybe talk with you about some of the reasons why.
But out of the gates, Josh, you see something like this with a player who did what he did, doing everything you could possibly imagine. Is this, like, surprising to you, or is it business as usual?
So if you go to the player's index page to sort by all players and you take it to one year change and you filter by players with at least 50 cards or more, Shea Gilgeous Alexander is still number one overall.
So to say that he's going down in value over the last, period of time since the championship is, in the context of he's already had the biggest run up of any player in our entire database over the last year.
So I would say he's due for even more correction given the. Like, baking in of him winning those two MVPs in the run up to it, and then him actually doing it is just sort of like the finality of it.
Now we see the increase in supply and people trying to sell the cards. So I'm surprised it hasn't gone down more, to be honest with you.
Chris? The Gengar of the sports card world? Shout out, Gengar. Dude, get the the Pokemon up here on this list is just it is I mean, it is out of control. Is this Pokemon ladder? Or what are we doing here? This is just insane.
Corbin Carol or Pincer? Take your time. Look at this. I'm just scrolling. This is crazy. Yeah. The the what about the Vasuvan doppelganger? That's under the he's flying under the radar right now. Yeah. Good goodness gracious.
Yeah. Okay. So here's the thing about Gilgeous. He he's already priced as one of the greatest players of all time. So look at his Prism Black. Right? His Prism Black sold a year and a half ago, a little bit less, for 200,000.
That was before he had any accolades. So his prism black pre regular season MVP, prescoring champion, pre finals MVP, pre champion was 200,000. Today, the card letter value on it is 670,000.
How many players have a prism black one of one? How many players have any card that's worth almost 3 quarters of a million dollars? And then his, logo man from NT autograph, that's worth about a million in card letter value.
That sold a little under a year and a half ago for almost a quarter of a million dollars before he had any of these very important accolades to his to his resume. So he's already priced like one of the greatest players of all time.
His Prism Gold sold, a few months ago in the grade of PSA 10 for a 150,000. How many players have a card number to 10 that's worth a 150,000 or more? Very, very, very few.
So he is he I I I don't I I think he is getting a lot of respect in the market, And, and, and, and, and, and the, the thing that we're seeing here in the short term, the 13% drop is like Josh said, that's a, that's a matter of supply.
And then I could, and, and, and this is what happens every time, you know, People who are speculating on his cards and then speculate that the Thunder are going to win, and they're right about that, but but they end up still being wrong because they only operated inside of their little personal silo, and they didn't consider the fact that there's thousands of other people who are thinking the same way as them.
So they were right in their prediction that the Thunder are going to win, and they were probably right in their prediction that Gildas Alexander and all the Thunder players are gonna get more collectors as a result of this.
But the supply, the number the sheer number of speculators who are now looking to offload cards in light of that overwhelms the increase in the in demand in the short term.
And no player is immune from this. This happened to Kobe after his Hall of Fame induction.
This happened to Mahomes after his second Super Bowl. Like, no player is immune from the the overwhelming supply that can flood a market when a group of speculators decides that it's a good time to sell.
And they're only thinking in the first level, which is, does this make sense or not for me to sell this given that there's gonna be a rise in collector demand right now?
They're not thinking on the second order, which is, but are other people also speculating just like me and doing the same thing? And and then it it start it it becomes like the Kanesian beauty contest.
It it starts to get really tricky because then if you if then if they all become aware of each other, then they all start trying to get more strategic and space things out, and they can they can still end up diluting each other.
So you almost have to introduce a level of randomness to cure that.
But I I just I I think that, that and and then the last point I'll say is that, on a on a more granular level, Gilchrist has had a number of unpaid cards, in the last few weeks that are in the latter that are contributing to his index calculation.
And so that index will go down more because these unpaid cards are selling for less than the paid card sold for, but we can't log the unpaid sale as a data point because it's unpaid.
So we it was as a little more time passes and, like, people actually start paying for these, the price points are gonna come down a little bit more, and the index is gonna downshift a little bit more.
I I would say the true index is maybe down more like 20% right now if these cards were actually getting paid.
One one final question I have just regarding SGA, his cards, and I'd love for your opinion on this. But, you know, you got to imagine there is a SGA collector Thunder fan out there who's just in the zone of just being so happy.
Their team won a championship, and they've been validated that their favorite player has done all the things you could possibly do in one season, and and has this desire no matter what.
It's like, I just want more SGA cards. This is my guy. This is what I'm collecting. And they they don't have any desire to sell these. They're just trying to build out an awesome SGA collection.
What what are the what is the moments or the things in the data that they should be looking for to help them understand when, like, the cards aren't just being flipped around and the prices are being in inflated, but maybe they are reaching this point of being at the bottom or close to the bottom so that they can maybe have the instinct to go and, you know, instead of just buying one card because that's all they can afford at that time.
But maybe this is a time that they buy multiple cards because the market is right.
Is there anything in this scenario, and it's happened with all these guys who've won championships over the years in other sports, but, like, is there anything you have all noticed where it's, like, here's where the trigger goes off, and here's where when you should actually start buying cards because, you know, the prices aren't as gassed up as maybe they have in the past.
You probably have to wait multiple years Okay. If that's if that's what you're after. Because he's up 200% in the last year and a good comparison I'll bring up is Giannis.
Giannis won a championship in 2021. Giannis has two regular season MVPs. So he's got more MVPs than Shea. And in the last year, Giannis's market is down 32% and Shea is up 180.
So. Did Giannis get worse and Shea got better? I mean, you could probably argue, Giannis is still a better player, has a better career, more accolades. He's been playing longer, etcetera, etcetera.
So I'd probably look to the Giannis market to see what's gonna happen next for Shay, unless he just rattles off, you know, one, two, three more championships if that's what you think's gonna happen.
But you can just look to the Giannis market.
For example, the Giannis Gold Prism rookie 2013, which is a very popular set, very popular year, second year of Prism Gold. His rookie, gold sold for 510,000, 420,000, 270,000, 528,000 in 2021, 2022 range.
That those are huge numbers. The last sale was October 2023 for 60,000. So did Giannis get worse from 2021 to 2023 where his one of his better cards goes from 500,000 to 60,000?
Or is this just the result of his his market being way too excited, way too inflated because he won that championship and people are pricing in him winning the next five, and then it doesn't happen.
And reality sets in and it starts to slowly trickle back down to reality. That's probably what's gonna happen with Shay.
So that's why I said at the at the onset, you're probably gonna have to wait a couple years to see where it settles. Because, you know, if you're buying on the backs of a 200% increase over one year, you're taking a lot of risk.
This Giannis, like, from a rookie card perspective, this is one of my favorite looking rookie cards. Maybe it's because I love 2013. But just the the way Giannis is presented on this card, and what I know about the shine of 2013.
And just when I look at rookie cards, I'm always, like, when a good rookie card stands out to me, it's like I'm always just, like, looking at the guy in the eyes and saying, does he even know how good he's about to be?
And so just I haven't seen this card in a while. Very cool. Chris, any further comments on this thread, before we move on to the next? No.
Except that, Shay's market is a little bit I also find it interesting just that Josh was calling out the comparison and the card letter value of Shay's prism gold PSA 10 and Giannis's prism gold PSA 10, they're both pop threes, and they both have a card letter value of, like, right at a 120,000.
So I just that comparison was really interesting.
Two ships passing each other in the night. Yeah. Final finals. And, of course, I wasn't planning on talking about Giannis, but, you know, there was so much debate about Giannis and where is he gonna play next.
And I don't know if it's completely solidified, but, you know, for all intents and purposes based on what the front office in Milwaukee did, looks like Giannis will be coming back home where he wants to be in play.
How important do you think just Giannis being on one team, and who knows if it's forever, but how important do you think that is to overall collectibility? In this era, do you think it it matters a lot, a little, or none at all?
I think it does change the buyer strategy a little bit because, like, with Gilgit, I do think that his, the total market cap of money spends on all of his cards is more evenly distributed.
Like, he has six figure logo man autograph cards that are from his fifth or sixth season, and I've and I think part of the reason it's pushing up the value of those types of cards for him is because they are thunder uniform and that his rookie year stuff is Clippers uniform.
So I I think that there's a bit of, I think his non Clippers uniform stuff, which also happens to be non rookie year, is a bit elevated as a result of that.
I think that would make Giannis' market more complicated if suddenly, you know, he went to, like, the Knicks or something that it would be it it would be tricky to reconcile the pricing of his, like, fourteenth year Knicks cards with his rookie year Bucks cards.
I I I think it would it would have to change how buyers approach things a little bit and and might even create an opportunity in the rookie year stuff if the Knicks stuff start like, this is this is this is the case with Jalen Brunson.
I think some of the prices of his Knicks uniform cards make the prices of some of his Dallas Mavericks rookie year cards interesting.
That was a fun, thread to pull on. Let's move over into a topic, whenever it's going up, we like to talk about, or at least I find this interesting.
So I I saw that, card ladder in June hit an all time high again with $306,000,000, in sale online sales tracked via the industry tab.
We like it when things are going up in the hobby. We and they're this happening twice in the same year. It caused me to instantly go back to 2021 data and the pandemic boom. Or, excuse me, 2122.
And I wanted to see I was like, okay. If this is happening now, what was happening during that period? And I saw that the single highest month during that period of time was May '22 when there's $234,000,000 in sales.
So you've got 306 in June. And from my in my mind, I always think of, like, wow. The prices, I don't even comp stuff. I was talking about a car that's last comp was in '21, and it's like, oh, that's too much.
So while many of us might, like, look at that COVID boom and try to disregard some of the comps, like, we're living in an era where in a total month, the the sales are higher than they would they were then.
You can break that down by, like, volume, quantity, and quality, and slice and dice any way you want to.
But I'd be curious kind of how is what's happening in the market right now any different than what was happening in the market during that time where excitement, hype, content, every all the emotion was at an all time high.
And from my point of view, it's like a period of time that I'll never forget.
So I'd love maybe, Josh, starting with you, like, when you think about, like, the May number and you compare it to May '22 to June, like, is there anything that you're seeing that's the same or anything that you're seeing different, in terms of cards being sold, volume, that sort of thing?
Well, I'm gonna start by saying our collection methods for this dataset from the what did you say?
May 2022? Yes. So that timeline, we didn't have as much access to all of the data. So it's not a it's not a true apples to apples comparison. I'll start by saying that.
But ever since Chris talked about the McDonald's hamburger, I can't get that in my mind. I just I just think, everything is up more since the COVID boom. We, you know, we structure many of these markets around the COVID boom.
You know, the stock market went crazy. The, sale of b to b companies, you know, selling to each other. We talk about inflation. We talk about the debt going up constantly, the sports gambling boom.
Like, it it everything, all of those industries, all of those markets, including cards, are up since the, you know, the actual, like, boom and all time highs of it all in 2020 to 2022.
So I just feel like, it's the McDonald's double cheeseburger of it all. We're just, we're just paying more. We're going more into debt more and more.
We're printing more money. Inflation keeps going up, and real estate keeps going up. Card prices keep going up. I mean, when are when are we as a as a group just going to, when is this gonna explode in our faces?
I'm not sure. I don't know. Answer you expected? No. I I just learned something about the data collection, which is good. And I'm sure listeners who get nerdy on this, are interested in that.
Chris, before I get your opinion, how much of this is has to do with Pokemon? We I mean, we just look through the year and every other well, a majority of the, you know, strongest performers right now are all, fictional characters.
Like, how how big of a role does Pokemon play in this data? Big role. I don't know how big. We don't, have the, the category indexing ability to separate out Pokemon sales from sports sales.
But if we use gem rates, grading data as a proxy, and looking at how, for example, Pokemon right now is the majority of the cards that PSA is grading, I think that's a pretty good indicator into how much volume Pokemon transacting is taking up right now.
But I also think that, there's a little bit of a zero sum game going on between sports cards and Pokemon.
So in other words, I think, like, if that money wasn't being spent on the Pokemon, it's to some degree that would be spent on sports cards.
There's a little bit of cannibalization there. But there's also a little bit of, like, new money coming into because of you know, take GameStop, for example.
Like, the the the the way that that GameStop has made it easy for people who are particularly familiar with sort of gaming products and Pokemon and TCG stuff to sort of integrate themselves into the grading, flow of collecting with with a lot of help.
I I I think that that's bringing in new people new money.
But and I I wanna make a separate point about sort of, the difference between what did it mean for us to see monthly volumes of 200, 250,000,000 during the pandemic, twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, versus what does it mean for us to see monthly volumes of 300,000,000 in 2025.
And I'll I'll make the point in this way. The difference between 2021 and 2024 is millions of cards have been added to the supply.
And then I'll make that I'll make that, I'll make that clear on a micro level, which is that in 2021, you know, my PC player, Nikola Jokic, had six prism black one of ones.
Today in 2025, he has 10. So that's that's sort of the difference here that that especially people collecting, you know, collecting active players, that's the that's the the card inflation that we're experiencing.
So, So, like, like, every year, let's say, there's 30 Panini NBA products that come out.
So on a four year span, that's a 120. You know, how many gold out of tens and one of ones and patch autos and so on and so forth come out of those products and hit the marketplace and sell.
So in order for prices to even stabilize for people who are collecting players who are having more and more cards added to their catalog, the volume has to go up.
So I wanna, like, bring up a real example for anyone who's about to get on a plane and go to Rosemont, Illinois, and, you know, they're pulling out some cash to go get a let's just say, a volatile player market.
I'm just thinking first one that comes to my mind during this stretch is like a Kobe Bryant, for instance. But they're a big Kobe fan. Maybe they're flying in from the West Coast trying to land their Kobe grail.
If you're they're listening to this conversation, maybe what they're trying to get is, okay. They're talking about Pokemon. They're talking about this potential bubble.
Is is there an opportunity that the the market that I'm seeing on this price is legitimate and that this macro number is just being influenced by some of the reasons you said, but also from Pokemon, which is something that I don't collect.
So I should be maybe more confident to buy this card because, Pokemon is maybe making this number what it is.
Like, if someone is trying to reason with that in their brain, would you say that's okay? Just, like, dig a little further on the data, or would you say that it doesn't matter?
It's kind of all one in the same, and we're we're likely in some sort of bubble based on all of the other factors that have been brought up, including the price of a McDonald's double cheeseburger right now?
I have a thought on this, which which I I like that, usually, the Pokemon of the dataset is used to deflate sports card industry guy enthusiasm.
You You know, it seems you're like, you know, hey. That's great, but calm down, sports card guys. Like, this isn't really you guys. This is a lot of Pokemon too.
So, you know, don't let's not just, like, get ahead of ourselves and, and pat ourselves break our arm, pat ourselves on the back for sports cards doing well just because we have big industry wide numbers because probably a lot of that's Pokemon.
And and then but but then now you've presented an angle that I haven't heard before, which is an interesting one, which is that, well, given that that might be the case, then can sports card buyers be a little more confident and a little less leery of overpaying given that a lot of the growth and the enthusiasm and the momentum that we're seeing really isn't coming from sports cards.
Some of it is, but most of it's coming from other stuff. So if that's the case, then maybe we don't have to be quite as worried about a bubble in pricing in sports cards.
Maybe the bubble is more so in Pokemon, and maybe sports cards are actually more stable and more, aligned with what we're expecting than than it seems.
So I I don't I think that's a cool, second link in the in the chain of drawing inferences from what these monthly volume figures mean.
I wanna show some examples of the top selling cards from these two stretches. But before I do that, Josh, do you have any further commentary on this thread?
It's interesting. I like it. I usually can point out and find examples when the market starts getting really hot like this of specific segments of cards that are outpacing other segments like you guys are talking about.
Like, I can point to Pokemon. I could point to Kabooms, etcetera, etcetera, and say, you know, there's a huge influx potentially of new buyers coming in with with no experience.
And they're just sort of seeing, hey, Pokemon's hot and that's going up. I'll buy that. Hey, kaboons are hot.
I'll just buy that. Hopefully, it keeps going up. And so there's always going to be a segment within the hobby where experience and knowledge can sort of outmaneuver all of these, inexperienced buyers that are coming in.
So, you know, if you're if you're thinking about like, hey, how do I get ahead of this? And should I look at Yannis cards instead of Shay?
Should I look at Yokoch instead of Pokemon, etcetera, etcetera. There's always ways to, you know, to optimize your dollar in the space. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing. Hey. The volume's too high.
I shouldn't buy any I I shouldn't buy any cards. Right? I love that. One of the exercises I went through when trying to look at the May 22 data and the June 25 data was just run a filter of volume of sales that were $10,000 or higher.
In May, there were 2,249 sales that were 10 k or higher. In June, there's 2,632 sales that are 10 k of or higher.
Just interesting, maybe give people a little flashback of some of these sales. In June '22 or excuse me, May, we had the, 1916, Sportnews Babe Ruth PSA six sell for $1,500,000, via Golden Auction.
We had a LeBron exquisite RPA at a '99, BGS nine auto 10 sell on Golden for $1,000,000. We had the on memory lane, we had a 1933 Gaudi Babe Ruth number 53 sell for $942,000. So those are three of the bigger sales from that month.
Then moving into last month, we had the, o nine ten upper deck, LeBron Kobe dual game use logo patch for 1,100,000. 0. I've never I haven't seen a scan of that card so close, but that's a pretty freaking cool card.
And even that's not my bag. You had a Clemente 55 tops PSA nine, sell for 732,000. And then can't forget the Night Knight tops now gold one of one, PSA 10, auto 10, selling on golden for $518,000.
Is the based on kind of those cards, maybe the volume of sales 10 k or above, anything notable, on these two, kind of months and some of the cards that have sold from your perspective?
I love how you use, card letter, Brett. This is fascinating stuff to to pick these two months and, like, use the filtering of 10 k or more, seeing the number of results. I think this is a very interesting dataset to analyze.
And then picking the specific cards you did, it just tells me, like, sports cards are wildly popular and people pay a lot of money three years ago, and they pay a lot of money today.
And and it just it reminds me of, like, Instagram stories where they're like, check out the sale.
Like, this player is finally getting his due or he's, you know, finally, we're getting these big sales. And I'm like, dude, we've been having these million dollar plus sales of Kobe or whatever for years.
It's not finally, it's been happening. You haven't been paying attention. You just jumped in the last month, and you're just trying to, like, hyperinflate your own stuff to keep it going.
It's so it's so interesting that was your now that that was my exact as I was looking at this, trying to make sense of, like I was trying to, like, make exact science of it.
And so I just came to, like, people just there are enough people that spend a ton of money on sports cards, and it happened then.
And it's happening now. And likely in three years when we do this again, it'll be the same story. Okay. So I asked a question. Do you have any examples of cards that appear clearly heated up?
And, Chris, was this you who filled this in? Yeah. I I put one from vintage, one from modern, and one from ultra modern. Okay. Let's let's jump into that. So the first one I have up is the '50 6Jackie p s a nine.
This is your vintage example. Maybe talk through kind of what you're seeing in the data. Yeah. Well, vintage collectors and pre war collectors will, certainly expect the caveat that, eye appeal matters a lot.
So anytime there's a a big jump around in the price of a card, that's one of the first things that has to be thought about.
But, even taking into consideration the eye appeal factor, and and it's certainly, like, gonna matter here with the 56 top Jackie Robinson because there are no PSA tens, and there are 11 PSA nines.
And the card that we're looking at is a PSA nine. So this card sold, just a few days ago here in the grade of a PSA nine with Heritage for a 170,000. And the previous high sale, I think, was, like, 66,000.
So it it almost tripled. Now, the buyer probably almost certainly is is I would expect them to argue that their nine is the best nine, and that's why they paid two or three times more than what the other nines go for.
But but the the fact remains with all that context included that this card had never sniffed six figures.
I don't I don't think. I I don't remember exactly, but I I'm pretty sure this is the first time this card ever went into six figures. And then and it went into six figures and it blew past it, and it went all the way up to a 170,000.
I believe this card didn't have any, sticker designations, any iAppeal stickers. So, maybe it will get one now. Maybe somebody it just it just hadn't ever been submitted to somebody who would present it with one.
But that that you know, the the question of, like, is is there what's what's going up right now? Like, this this one sticks out tremendously. And it's not like we have a big gap in between sales either.
Like, the last sale of this card in the grade of PSA nine was 66,000, and that was in October. And now here we have the sale in July, not even a year later, and it's at a 170,000.
So what what you is I know you don't collect vintage, but you would say that no matter what, like, I appeal, even if that's the argument, there's no reason that these two examples of this should be the Delta should be that great between the two regardless of perceived eye eye appeal or or not.
I will not go there. Okay. Okay. I will not hate that. My DM, like, all the vintage guys that I know without naming one in particular would be DM ing me immediately to correct me here and explain why iAppeal explains the difference.
So I will not go there, sir. Nice try. Josh, what do you have? Are you gonna go there? No. I just love that. I was thinking, man, you better not, Chris.
Be careful. And he didn't. So nice job. Alright. Let's move over. We'll we'll move we'll speed right past the the rest of the vintage conversation and move over to your modern example, which is the 9899 e x century Dunkin' Go Nuts.
Michael Jordan PSA 10. I'm not surprised that it's a PSA 10 Jordan here that we're talking about, but maybe talk through this example.
Jordan is quickly becoming similar to vintage in that condition is really starting to stratify. Because, like, if we if you click into the universal pops, like, this has a pop of 65, but, the universal pop is 595.
Mhmm. And then this card is particularly tricky because its surface can yellow. Its acetate surface can begin to discolor.
So, yeah, I mean, this card now, PSA 10, pops 65 is, you know, for all for for the sake of easy rounding, call it 20 k. And there's 65 in that condition, and there's 600 or more in circulation in any condition.
So this is really a a a preference expressed here for a card that has no shortage of supply in any condition, but the supply starts to tighten up a bit when you get to the highest condition.
I I just think this is an this is an expression for preference for condition of a car that has a lot of copies. I mean, it's it's not numbered. It's, it's not difficult to find one if you wanna find one.
And even 65, the pop of 65 in a PSA 10, it's that's I mean, any anytime you have a a pop for a Jordan card and below 3 figures, it's it's it it's gonna be very competitive to get it.
But, but but still, you know, just like like, what was this card, Brett?
What was this card selling for last year at at this time or two years ago? I wonder. Let's see here. Where this view Maybe just smash that view all sales that's on the top right of the graph down a little bit.
Oh, here we go. Yes. There we go. Yeah. Let's smash. Okay. So, like, let's see here. If we bring so, like, in April, it was 12 to $13. Okay. Yeah. That's April.
If we go back to, a year ago, it was $7. Alright. Alright. So here's the 7 to $8. Here's the question for both of you. Is with a with a card like this where you've got a population and this card is from 1998, population of 65.
How do you begin to think about, like, for anyone who's, like, trying to get a copy of this card and maybe is considering the the PSA 10 pop factor of it all in it?
Like, I know you can't predict the future or whatever, but we what are some of the things that you can put into place to maybe understand if the population in a PSA 10 is going to go up?
And if so, how much? Like, I'm sure, like, we've all been in that scenario making decisions where we think about that sort of thing.
Is there anything that you all think about when you're trying to understand if you can anticipate there to be, like I'm not just talking about maybe one, but I'm talking about, like, 10 to 20 that would completely skew off the or completely sidetrack the value of what you're paying for it now?
Like, how do you all think about that when you're looking through the data?
John, I'll like I'll the first thing in my mind went to when I thought about this question was the the suffering that that followed when my or, well, so Christina and I picked up twenty eighteen select concourse gold, Luca, PSA 10 when it was a pop one, and then it became a pop two.
And that sucked.
Mhmm. So but but is is it really so different than Jokic's prism black count going from nine to 10? You know? Is it or is it pretty similar? So I I think I think on some level, this is, this is something that that everybody deals with.
But, like, when you're talking about cards from twenty or thirty years ago, I would suspect that the populations aren't, at too much risk of expanding.
But but some but but, like, especially if you're like, if if this dunk and go nuts goes from pop 65 to pop 68, I don't know if that's a big difference.
But but if a card's like a pop two and it goes to a pop three or something, that starts to get more impactful, I think.
And and I think you can see if you click back into the pop report and then you scroll down to the bottom of that screen, I think you can see some of our tracking of how the population has grown over time.
So, yes, since, like, I guess, since the beginning of 2022 to today, it looks like the population of this car has gone from 55 to 65. I I always forget about this feature.
This is what I'm talking about. Yeah. This is good. Alright. Let's hit the last one here, Chris, and this is your ultra modern example, which is a, wonderful card here, the 2018 Lamar Jackson gold vinyl PSA 10.
What do you have to say about this one? So so this is at 35,000 for a pop two. And how do we compare this sale to historical sales? Sale from a year ago, sale to two years ago. I'm pretty sure it's up big.
I'm I'm pretty sure that 35 k price from last week is a record high. Mhmm. So I so I guess this card was about $25 last winter. It's about $20 the winter before that. So, you know, it was or it was, $10, two years ago.
My gosh. This thing was selling for 6,600 in December, which, you know, one year after Jackson, you know, he's been playing for one year. Mhmm. But that's wow. That's amazing. You you wouldn't see that today, though.
Right? His prism based PSA 10 was selling for close to $6 in the early innings of the pandemic. So, and, like, yeah, I mean, this all of these, opinions on these market prices are subjective, and, and they they don't exist in a vacuum.
Right? It's like, these these prices are all the byproduct of the intersection of supply and demand.
And, if if if you have a 100 units of demand for a card with a 100 units of supply, that's gonna that that can create an equilibrium just the same as if you have a an item with only two units of demand and only two unit two units of supply.
So it it supply and demand are are are relative and relational concepts that that so, like, the demand for a Jordan Duncan go nuts compared to the demand for, you know, 56 tops Jackie versus the demand for twenty eighteen Prizm Lamar, Those those are such different demand curves.
But for the Lamar, this is I, you know, I I don't I don't see this as necessarily a negative thing that that prices are going up for great cars and great players.
And I've actually seen Lamar cards start showing up more and more on pages of guys who, like, if you look at the rest of their page, it's like Kobe and Jordan and Brady, and then all of a sudden, like, now Lamar cards are showing up on those pages.
Whereas, like, before, the go to guy would have just been, like, Mahomes or nothing.
So, like, Lamar started showing up in some of those pages now. So I I think he's like a he's just a he's a stealthy up into the right guy right now. Lamar is. I'll I'll say this a couple things, and then we can move on.
But my man, Amit, decided to share with me the fact that, a Brady Hill purchased his first gold prism, and it was a Lamar Jackson PSA 10. So you're that validates kind of the point that you just were making there, Chris.
And, also, the other thing about, what I'll say here about this, what I really like, is this card has been in existence for seven years, and there's been only seven public sales.
So if I owned this card, I would feel really good about it. Brett, without looking, what do you think the percentage change is in Lamar's index over the last year? Uh-oh. Oh. Josh, if you don't have it pulled up, you should guess too.
What's crazy about this is is I can't even tell you if it's up or down. Yeah. Me either. Yeah. I can't I can't wait to tell you guys. Over the last year? Last year. Last three hundred and sixty five days.
Let's work together, Brett. He's doing this because this card went up, and he wants to. The answer is the opposite. He's trying to get us to see that the overall market's down, but the the the cards that rule are up.
That's what he's gonna do. Yeah. I'm gonna say, his market is down 12%. Over the last year? Yes. I'll say, like, eight or something. Yeah. Pull it up.
You can you can get to his index by just scrolling down on this page a little bit and, like, clicking on his yeah. Oh, up a little bit more right there, and then set it to a year, and you'll see. Dang. Up 70 up 76% over the last year.
I feel I actually that makes me feel good because I feel like I although he did not, he's, you know, got this narrative about the playoffs and not being able to make it through, like, no matter what, like, undeniably, like, as each year passes, he becomes more and more great to me as a football fan.
So this actually makes me feel kinda happy that his cards are going up. And very quietly. Very quietly. Yeah.
You would have there's you could I didn't I had no idea either. That's literally why I looked because I was like, I have no idea what what his market's doing right now. And then Yeah. You look and it's almost doubled in the last year.
He was the MVP. He had a killer season. No. Josh Allen. He was a he was a MVP at the end of last year. Oh, end of last year. Yeah. Yeah. But in some could argue that he should have been MVP. He was first team all pro. Yeah. He he was.
He was first team all pro. He's he's putting together quite a peek. Great player. Great player. Great plays. Alright. Let's we don't do this normally, and I know you guys have been talking about it, but wanted to reserve some space.
If there is a card that you've picked up recently that you wanna mention or talk about, wanna give you the space for that, you let me know.
Is there anything you wanna talk about? Yeah. This is for the stacking slabs audience. So I'll just I'll do it very quickly here.
How about a black prism? Yes. Finite. Yes. How about eight of eight? The McCaffrey prism black finite run lives on. Hey. Everybody go listen to the Hosh cast. That would do that episode where you talk through.
Well, I I sent you a message. Yeah. I sent you a message on the I love the fact that you you've talked about what you paid for all of them, and that's what it takes, though, to be able to do what you're doing.
So that one the twenty twenty fours, man, every time I see one of those, those look really good.
Congrats on that. Yeah. Thanks, man. Yeah. That's that's that's a stacking slab special right there. The the football skills guy, black finite. I mean, I just feel like I'm among my people. Yes. You are. What Josh, what about you?
You picked up anything recently that gets you excited? Well, I'm on a mega cold streak, but so I'm I'm, like, reaching into the the depths of cards that I'm willing to take on just to have the joy of mail days.
So I do have two, but, you know, they're not quite to the level of, like, the, CD Lamb Black Friday rookie or something like that.
But All good. Twenty sixteen optic gold vinyl, Lashon McCoy one of one, and I just got this, Antonio Brown optic contenders autograph one of one gold vinyl from 2018. You and I were DMing about the 2016 gold vinyl optic.
And I said, like, generally, it is really hard to even find, like, the golds of your players in 2016, which is the first year. And the, the the the gold vinyl are obviously even more challenging.
Like, what do you think about, like, the look and the feel of that year? And is that do you have an I can't remember. Do you have Antonio Brown or someone else in that year?
I have Tyreke right here, actually. Okay. Which is a rookie card. And I do have Antonio Rutt. So I have three of them. They're awesome, dude. They're super sick. They're just like the Tyreek Hill one is is just it's just so sick.
I don't know. I love it. Like, the gold vinyl just goes over the whole surface so well, and the simplicity of the design. It it obviously gives off the TOPS chrome vibes. People have compared it to TOPS chrome a lot.
So, I just I love it. Here's a question for both of you on twenty sixteen Optic. The flipper vortex in that, like, narrative has not gotten to that set yet, and I think part of that makes that, like, makes me love it even more.
But I guess, I know Prism is the rage, but do you have any explanation on maybe it just seems like no one we love debuts. We love first, but I never hear anyone talk about debut your optic when I have an appreciation for it.
And I think you both have an appreciation for it. Why do you think that is? Did the downtown inserts from optic? The inserts, their gold vinyl one zero ones outsell the base gold vinyl one zero ones by a factor of about five x.
So Oh my god. Not only are you correct, Brett, but you're underplaying just how disrespected the base optical vinyl is relative to some other of these flipper vortex cards.
I'll, by the way and we're gonna segue to the final part of this conversation, which, Josh, I'm gonna give you the floor.
But, dude, your examples of the kaboom in downtown, it it I can't get into card ladder and not see it everywhere now. I was I I was I was researching, and it'll be on the Football Card podcast.
It'll already been live, but we're talking Jarell Rivas. And there's this just twenty fifteen flawless ruby game worn patched at PSA ten, beautiful autograph, just a stunner of a card.
And it's, like, I don't know. I am a huge Rivas guy, because literally when the Colts played the Jets in those pivotal moments, you had they it was, like, a whole another game plan with Rivas on the field.
He shut down the one side of the field. He fucking dominated when he played.
Like, in his prime, he was unlike anyone I have seen. So I have an appreciation for Rivas. Dude, this car, I'm like, this is a gorgeous car, only a thousand dollars, and then I see, and it was, like, 14 or 14 or 1,800.
It was his freaking clearly down risk down Look at it. Clearly down risk, dude, and I wanted to throw up everywhere. Dude, it's not it's every player. It's every player.
All you have to do is search your favorite football player's name in sales history, put a minimum filter of, let's say, dollars 500 sort by date sold, and you're just gonna see a flood of the same cards, kabooms and and, and downtowns over and over and over.
Oh, boy. Mixed in next to, like, black finite rookies and shit. It's it's wild. Yeah. It's wild. So take take us home.
Your topic that you wrote down here is influence of repackers over collectors, and you have kaboom downtown. This is a thread you've been kinda going and talking a lot about, but wanna leave you some space to talk about it even more.
The only thing I hadn't explored yet was I'm gonna just milk this topic as much as I can, and everyone's probably so sick of it, which is fine.
But the last thread I wanted to tug on is is the pull from this, inflated price of these cards so strong that it's willing to pull over, strong that it's willing to pull over true collectors into saying, I need these for my actual collection?
I I think that's happening to some degree. So I I ran the poll of, like, would you rather have the prism gold at 10 or the, or, you know, like the kaboom gold, which is better?
And most people, it was, like, $80. 20 would say said the prism gold. So it kind of made me think, you know, the collectors that follow my account are still greatly preferring the prism gold even though the the prices are less.
So I just was curious. Maybe you guys have some thoughts of, like, are you know, five years from now, are people not gonna know the origin of this this hype train and be like, okay.
Kaboom Gold actually is something I should add to my collection. It does have a long term stay. You know, is it the next screen in PMG twenty years?
Are we just gonna forget about the scam that that happened here and just continue to push them? I think for me, the, the thing that's really I I struggle I like I will say this definitively.
I think there's a big difference between a Kaboom Gold and a standard Kaboom, obviously. But just in terms of, like, me even getting close to maybe wanting to buy one, it would have to be a gold.
And I think though that my struggle when comparison comparing it to the prism at a 10 is there is a lineage and legacy that is very clear and defined on prism that that from the beginning in any sport, the gold Prism has always been there.
And when your player has a rookie year, that's a key card. There's only 10 copies. I think what I struggle with the Kaboom Gold is just you have to start getting into cardboard connection. You have to start getting into card ladder.
You have to start figuring out where the products are. And it's just this hodgepodge of, like, information that I'm trying to piecemeal together, and I'm trying to decide, well, which one's better than the other?
Well, this is the first year with football, but then it came out in these these special packs, and it's just I don't know.
Like, prism goals come from prism, and that alone, it just gives me the, that that satisfies me as a collector knowing that no matter what, like, I know where this card is coming from.
And I don't know. That's why I can never, like, compare and contrast the two, especially on, like, the rookie front.
It just the prism gold will always prevail for me because it's just way more straightforward. But I'd love to hear, Chris, if you have any additional thoughts, I'd love to hear it. I did the same thing you guys are doing.
So after the Rebus example, so I just went to sales history and I typed in Rebus. And then I see that three of his five highest sales of all time are his 2023 clearly Don Ross downtown. And I and I started looking at it.
I was like, oh, these are just because my brain is so accustomed to, like, looking up sales histories of cards that are short printed, I was like, these are all the this is the same card as sold three times.
And then I and then I said, well, why is the p s why did the PSA 10 in February sell for $1,200 and then the raw sold for $1,400? I was like, did somebody crack out the PSA 10? And I was like, oh, wait.
No. This this there's just many copies of this. These are all different copies of the same card. I need to remove myself from the frame of expecting results of a one of one or a gold out of 10 to have just one sale.
And, like, if the same card pops up, it's almost always the same copy and then realize these are all very likely different copies.
So three of his five highest sales are just most likely three different copies of his clearly Don Russ downtown card. And I think where I land on this is a matter of discourse.
And, and I've only landed here after getting feedback from people when, we talked about this on the crossover, was a lot of people just said nothing more or less than, I just I didn't realize that there was such a gap in pricing.
And and not good or bad, you know, because because you can start mount some and some people do. Some people start mounting the defense. You know, the it's the goal. It's it's the green PMG, so it should be more.
Or, or some other variety of that or, you know, like, these these players have less of these that that players like, Shea Gil just has less, gold kabooms than he has gold prisms, so it should be more.
You know, people can start making defenses of it. Or people can go the other way and say, you know, I had no idea that these are, priced so strong relative to so many other options. I'm gonna look at some other options now.
I my my maybe my dollar goes further based on what I like as a collector in these other arenas. So at at that point, so I I think the dialogue is educational even if it and and perhaps it it reaches further because it has a point.
It's it's pointed. It has an edge to it. But it but but it is educational. It's it's it's inform it's it's informing people and equipping them with information that they didn't have before.
And then what they do with that information is their prerogative, one way or the other, whether it makes them double down on in support of kabooms or whether it's in downtowns and stuff or whether it makes them, say, maybe I need to review the menu of offerings, more carefully, whichever way it goes.
At that point, it's it's it's really just in the opinion and the subjective preferences of the collector.
But but I think undeniably, the educational impact, the the the the awareness raising, the public service announcement of it all occurred, and and that was the strongest takeaway.
One of the most impactful, exercises I've seen on Instagram. I'm glad it's been carried over to content, and we're shining a light on it even more here on Card Ladder Confidential.
We'll plug the booth. 2323 Card Ladder booth at, is that the number? Yes, sir. The old Michael Jordan, LeBron James, double duo. Straight across from a bathroom, I think, or something like that. Oh, really?
That's important. Yeah. Yeah. You wanna be close, but not too close. Are you in the are you is it is it near the screaming breakers this year or away from that? No. No. Corporate corporate section. So it's super quiet, actually.
The option sellout mode underway. Yep. The the pro the professional era of card letter is here, everybody. It only took five years. Oh, well, appreciate, you guys. As always, we'll be back next month with another episode. Sounds good.