Born in Soissons, France, Emmanuel went to trade school at the age of 16 to learn how to renovate historical monuments by hand, specialising in granite. He spent some years restoring churches, cathedrals and monuments all over France until he felt the calling to create his own work as an artist.
He says women and the female form are a constant source of inspiration. Dance is a strong theme in his work and began with a homage he did for Martha Graham which lives in the outdoor sculpture garden at the Wallis Theatre in Beverly Hills, LA. The models he used from a French dance school in order to make that sculpture impressed him hugely and, he says, gave him a lifetime of inspiration, adding that he felt he was surrounded by walking sculptures.
For a recent show Emmanuel made a triptych of Exaltation – one carved in white marble, another cast in polished white bronze, and the third in natural bronze with a patina. He explains how he wanted to illustrate how the same subject feels completely different when created in a different material.
Emmanuel displays his extraordinary carving skills in his portrayals of Kinbaku – the Japanese art of tying rope around a person using visually intricate patterns, typically with several pieces of thin rope (often jute, hemp or linen). He believes the practice is empowering because the people are not tied in their mind, in fact they are very free.
While Emmanuel was carving in white, bianco p and statuario marble, some of his black women friends asked why he didn’t sculpt black women. He says, ‘I felt like, well, I’m not going to sculpt a black woman in white marble. It kind of doesn’t make sense because part of their beauty is their colour. I mean, it’s not a colour, but it’s being black. So I went to a quarry in Belgium and purchased some beautiful black marble blocks. And it’s really an homage to them. And I hope they’re happy, but I think a lot of them, they express their contentment.’
Emmanuel describes how he was affected by the fires in California and the south of France. He admires the resilience of nature whereby a forest is reborn afterwards, growing back twice as beautiful. It was then that he started to make pieces with burnt wood.
Emmanuel comes from a family with a famous painter, Jean Cousin the Elder. Cousin was a Renaissance painter who painted Eva prima Pandora in 1500, which is in the Louvre, Paris.
Emmanuel and I met at Massimo Galleni Studios, who specialise in reproducing classical sculptures, just outside Pietrasanta. He also referred to Mario Tavarelli who showed Emmanuel around when he first arrived in Carrara in 1995. Mario was the owner of a marble company and had guided the novelist Irving Stone during his research for his book on Michelangelo, The Agony and the Ecstasy.
Emmanuel Fillion trained young to restore medieval ornaments in France. He loved climbing the scaffold in Paris at sunrise, but broke away to become an artist.
Born in Soissons, France, Emmanuel went to trade school at the age of 16 to learn how to renovate historical monuments by hand, specialising in granite. He spent some years restoring churches, cathedrals and monuments all over France until he felt the calling to create his own work as an artist.
He says women and the female form are a constant source of inspiration. Dance is a strong theme in his work and began with a homage he did for Martha Graham which lives in the outdoor sculpture garden at the Wallis Theatre in Beverly Hills, LA. The models he used from a French dance school in order to make that sculpture impressed him hugely and, he says, gave him a lifetime of inspiration, adding that he felt he was surrounded by walking sculptures.
For a recent show Emmanuel made a triptych of Exaltation – one carved in white marble, another cast in polished white bronze, and the third in natural bronze with a patina. He explains how he wanted to illustrate how the same subject feels completely different when created in a different material.
Emmanuel displays his extraordinary carving skills in his portrayals of Kinbaku – the Japanese art of tying rope around a person using visually intricate patterns, typically with several pieces of thin rope (often jute, hemp or linen). He believes the practice is empowering because the people are not tied in their mind, in fact they are very free.
While Emmanuel was carving in white, bianco p and statuario marble, some of his black women friends asked why he didn’t sculpt black women. He says, ‘I felt like, well, I’m not going to sculpt a black woman in white marble. It kind of doesn’t make sense because part of their beauty is their colour. I mean, it’s not a colour, but it’s being black. So I went to a quarry in Belgium and purchased some beautiful black marble blocks. And it’s really an homage to them. And I hope they’re happy, but I think a lot of them, they express their contentment.’
Emmanuel describes how he was affected by the fires in California and the south of France. He admires the resilience of nature whereby a forest is reborn afterwards, growing back twice as beautiful. It was then that he started to make pieces with burnt wood.
Emmanuel comes from a family with a famous painter, Jean Cousin the Elder. Cousin was a Renaissance painter who painted Eva prima Pandora in 1500, which is in the Louvre, Paris.
Emmanuel and I met at Massimo Galleni Studios, who specialise in reproducing classical sculptures, just outside Pietrasanta. He also referred to Mario Tavarelli who showed Emmanuel around when he first arrived in Carrara in 1995. Mario was the owner of a marble company and had guided the novelist Irving Stone during his research for his book on Michelangelo, The Agony and the Ecstasy.
A podcast where artists tell their stories through the materials they choose.
Emmanuel Fillion:
There is this feeling when you climb the scaffold in the morning in Paris. You have the sun rising, you hear the town, and the town is yours because you're in your own world. I mean, nobody has any idea you're up there. And there you are carving a piece that was designed and carved by someone in the 1300s. I could not stay in France.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, I was too close to these monuments. It would have been impossible to step away. It's kind of like an addiction. It was too good to carve so freely like that. The craftsman can put the love into his work, but there's no doubt about it, and I'm sure a lot of them could be artists.
Emmanuel Fillion:
The craftsman can do what what you see, but the artist is gonna try to do what you can't see. I felt, it's, it's time to it's time to fly away.
Sarah Monk:
Hi. This is Sarah with another episode of materially speaking, where artists tell their stories through the materials they choose. Today, I'm meeting Emmanuel Fillon, born east of Paris into the world of stone. Age 15, he trained to renovate historical monuments and began his career as a craftsman. Emmanuel suggested we meet at his studio in Massimo Gallini's, who are known as specialists in reproducing classical sculptures on the edge of Pietra Santa.
Sarah Monk:
I tucked my car on the side of the road, nudged up against the railway line, which runs from Genoa to Pisa, and approached the large gates. As I wait in the dusty yard with towering piles of marble and statues all around me, a smartly dressed group hover at the far end of the yard. They probably come to check up on a commission. When I'm jovially away from the office towards Emmanuel's studio, I find him in crisp white jeans. But his studio speaks of hard work, Small blocks waiting to be bases, a stone floor covered in marble dust, and under each workbench, chunks of marble and wood.
Sarah Monk:
Emmanuel shows me some of his figures standing tall on cavaletti. Then we jump in my car, go back into Pietrasanta, join his daughter, and he makes me some green tea.
Emmanuel Fillion:
My name is Emmanuel Follian. I'm a sculptor. I've been coming to Pietrasanta since 1995. The first time was to look for marble, so actually, I ended up in Carrara, I think, like most most people. You've been drawn to Carrara until I discover Pietrasanta in 97 exactly.
Emmanuel Fillion:
At the time, I had a studio in the States, and I started to, get commissions. And one of the commission, I needed 30 tons of white marble. So I came to Cara. One thing after the other, I really discovered Pietro Santa, and it's completely different from Carrara. Going there to purchase the marble, I visited all the quarries in Carrara.
Emmanuel Fillion:
At the time, I was taking around by Mario Tavarelli. He was a very interesting, man. He passed, unfortunately. He had a big company from his father. And, what was very interesting, he he really understood the artist's needs in a way, even though he was a merchant.
Emmanuel Fillion:
He's the one who, hosted, Irving Stone for writing the book, Agony and Ecstasy. So I stayed with him, and so he told me all the stories and how Irving Stone will rent a donkey and go to the quarries to really live what Michelangelo lived. I mean, the whole romanticism of, having, you know, a sculptor in Carrara. If I arrive in Pietrasanta the first time, Pietrasanta is definitely more romantic and more artist like than Carrara coming for a short period of time. But then I saw all the industry, all the possibilities, and, I was already quite impressed.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And when I saw Pietrasanta , of course, then I was like, oh, okay. This is where you should be. So that's why.
Sarah Monk:
It's a beautiful town, isn't it? And so if we go back to when you were born, where were you born? I think of you as French American. Is that how you identify?
Emmanuel Fillion:
So I was born French. I became American on the way by marriage. I was born in, east of Paris in a town Soissons. I mean, not many people know about it. My family comes from Champagne.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, I don't know if I was destined to be a sculptor, but definitely I was born in the stone world. My village, where I lived until I was 13 years old, had a quarry, a limestone quarry, and I was surrounded by limestone quarries and had a lot of carvers. You know, at the time, I would see them on their moped going every day. I would see the big trucks with the blocks. So I didn't notice.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It's not like, when you're a child and you start thinking, oh, I'm I'm gonna do that later on. But it gets natural. You see. You you get a you grow a sensibility. I remember playing hide and seek with my friends between the blocks, you know, the the limestone yard, and we would play hide and seek.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And, I remember playing with the tools while the guys were away on the weekend. So, definitely, when later on around 15 years old, when I was starting to think of what I wanted to do, that caught up with me. I really liked that feel, you know, the the smell of the stone, what you can do with your hands, the freedom. There's also a physical aspect for a boy. I remember I like the, hard work, you know, head on the stone, like something hard.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So that's how I think it kind of grew in me, and then I decided that I wanted to be a sculptor.
Sarah Monk:
Were your family artistic? Do you come from a family of artists?
Emmanuel Fillion:
I'm gonna start with my dad. My dad told me how to draw. My dad is a great draftsman. He he can draw. And I remember always still now, he never even draws.
Emmanuel Fillion:
But when he does, he has this very distinctive line, simplistic but clean and pure. So definitely talented for the arts. So my family plays music, but they're all doctors. My mom, who's all my life said, oh, you got the artist fiber from, you know, your dad's family. Actually, she was mistaken because we, come from a long line of artists on her side, which she was not aware.
Emmanuel Fillion:
My cousin made her realize that. And, my grandfather, 14th generation, was the most important painter of the Renaissance in France.
Sarah Monk:
Wow. Who's that?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Jean Cousin. Oh. Jean Cousin. He has a painting in Louvre, Eva Prima. And when I heard about it, I was like, it seems that my life was gathered around some kind of genetic reminiscence.
Emmanuel Fillion:
What I mean by that is just my path. When I started sculpting, I traveled through France and I worked on monuments. I worked on churches. I worked on cathedrals, castles. And it was very, old fashioned the way we worked with the studio, the sculptor studio.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And later on, I did stained glasses, which my grandfather then did. I mean, we're talking about in the 1400. If I go back because you asked me, it started in this little village where I got aware of stone and surrounded by lime stone. But then at 16, I decided to do a trade school because I went to the bazaar in France, which is the artistic school. And I realized that they don't teach you how to sculpt or paint there.
Emmanuel Fillion:
They teach you how to be an artist. I mean, at the time, I think it changes. It depends on the time, you know, it's kind of fashionable. And I thought, well, I mean, I don't really care to be an artist. I think you're either an artist or you're not.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, it's not something you've been taught, I think. So I wanna learn how to sculpt, and I didn't find anything at that time. So I did a trade school to be a stone carver. And then I learned stone carving in granite because at the time we live close to the center of France, you know, where the volcanoes. Yeah.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Yeah. It's very isolated. And I was in a boarding school there for 2 years where I learned to, to carve stone. Right. And was it an art
Sarah Monk:
boarding school or was it a special school
Emmanuel Fillion:
or no? No, no, no. It's a special trade school. It's a trade school where we went from 14 years old to 26. It's everything in construction, traditional carpentry, metal carpentry, cabinetmaker, engineering.
Emmanuel Fillion:
We were 1500, boys in that school.
Sarah Monk:
Wow.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And there was, 2 section. 1 was engraving, you know, for funeral in in particular, and then one was stone carving.
Sarah Monk:
And what's this place called?
Emmanuel Fillion:
They're called Du metiers du Batiments, At the time, EMB in Feltin. Feltin is a little town next to Aubusson where they make the tapestries. There were a boarding school there, I think, to dynamize, the area at the time. We were almost twice the village.
Sarah Monk:
So so just to go back, you were 13, 15 that you had to decide with?
Emmanuel Fillion:
I was , 16.
Sarah Monk:
Do you have siblings? Did you have to leave home? And was that odd for you or exciting for you? No.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It was great. You're a lot of siblings, do you? No. I just have a brother and a sister. But, I'm very independent.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I was always very independent. And I guess I see it by talking to lots of people. I always knew what I wanted to do, really. I remember trying to carve a piece of stone with a screwdriver and a hammer, which was not working very well. I remember building things, you know, it's kinda so it was in me.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, I I I always love architecture. I love to be in churches. It was kind of mystical. I think my approach to, the relationship with stone is mystical because I really related the carvings and the because I really related the carvings and the stone. The limestone, especially in France, is used for, big castle buildings and, churches.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And I did like to be in these places. I found peace there, you know, and I find peace working the stone. So when in that trade school, when I, left, I had a short experience of being a stone carver working in some theater in Paris. And I realized that that's not what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a sculptor.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Eventually, I ended up to go to a college to be, stone cover specialized in restoration of historical monuments. And there, we study it's called the art of cutting stone, and it's a very intricate technique to design, which is called stereotomy. So that's how you have been taught. It's a traditional, training in a way. In France, they're very good with this.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And, you travel throughout France in different companies to acquire experience. And then you go back to school. And so it goes back and forth like this.
Sarah Monk:
What was it called? A steth?
Emmanuel Fillion:
A stereotomy. And what Stereotomy is the art of cutting stone. By what I mean by cutting stone, not with a tool. You put it on a paper. For example, you had a lot of intricate shapes.
Emmanuel Fillion:
You know, you have arches penetrating with moldings and stuff like that. So you have to be able to draw it in order to make the patterns to cut the stone by hand. And, of course, when I'm talking about every moment of learning, I never use an electrical machine. It was all by hand. Yeah.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I think it has changed today, but at the time when I worked, on monuments, we were not allowed to use electrical tools. We needed to use the traditional tools so we will respect the aspect, the Finnish aspect, and the style of the monuments. So after that school, I worked in Paris and, really was looking for that's it. I'm like, okay. Now I did another school, you know, I got another diploma.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I wanna be a sculptor, and I find a sculptor. I find it on the job site. And it's a beautiful story because I was working there and I was really motivated. He was paying very good money to be a carver with experience because we were young, but we had a lot of experience. I traveled, you know, a lot and knew a lot of different techniques.
Emmanuel Fillion:
When, I saw a sculptor carving a tymponium on the top of a building.
Sarah Monk:
What's a tymponium?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Tymponium, you know, like this triangular shape on top and and where you have all these figures inside with trophies and things like that. And it could be more or less symbolic. And he was carving this because in France, they have specific techniques. The difference between Italy and France as far as restoration for the monuments, I think Italians are very good to conserve the monument and save them as much in the original state as they can. In France, and I think it's because also most of the monuments are not in marble, but they're mostly in limestone, which is a more easy material to work and probably cheaper.
Emmanuel Fillion:
In France, they replace the stone and they carve it as it was before. So it might not be as historically accurate sometimes, but it does give the opportunity to all the tradesmen and the craftsmen to keep that knowledge alive. Because you really have to learn all the styles and observe and study and draw. I remember before carving, I would sit and spend half a day drawing what I was gonna sculpt because I needed to understand where it came from. I need to find the piece that was complete.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Most of the time, you know, they weren't complete. So it was kind of a good school to learn.
Sarah Monk:
You're reminding me that, when Notre Dame, burnt down was this discussion about, you know, what period do you restore? Because it has Yes. What you were talking about, so many layers of
Emmanuel Fillion:
Yes. The the the flesh, the, I don't know how you call it in English. Yeah. They talked about it. Do we do, like, a contemporary one, or do we restore what what was restored before by Viollet Ludic, which was the architect who restored it in 19th century?
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, that's not for me to have that conversation.
Sarah Monk:
Do you have an opinion, though?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Well, I I I definitely think the monument should be restored, as close as possible, from its original state. Now, Viollet Duke's restoration is a fantasy of what it was. It's not very accurate. That's why I raised argument about it. But I do think there's so many ugliness in this world.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I I would not want to take the chance to have a contemporary design. Well, probably one last time. Because the thing is, we have the crafts. We have the knowledge to build it again so it lasts another 800 years. I don't think contemporary architecture today is gonna last 800 years.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, people are in the moment. It does not. Some architects, I believe, built with this in mind, but very, very few. And the material they use won't last that long.
Sarah Monk:
So it's not just fashion, it's the materials they're choosing?
Emmanuel Fillion:
I think so. Yes. I mean, the the wood, the carpentry, you know, the stone, everything is a natural element. They age well. They move together.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It's flexible. It's organic.
Sarah Monk:
And I think also, you know, there's a change, which I hope is beyond fashion with the environmental awareness that we certainly were in last year
Emmanuel Fillion:
Mhmm. Yes. Before the
Sarah Monk:
pandemic, and and, obviously, everybody's thinking about that. But, you know, preserving materials, reusing materials.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Yes. In Paris now, they build new buildings, even, how do you say social buildings in limestone back in limestone because it's economical. I mean, it really, really has a lot of great advantages. To come back to Notre Dame because you asked, I think, I would probably, support any project if I knew the motivation was not ego driven or greed driven. And it was a great idea behind where a lot of, young craftsmen, you know, could benefit from participating in that project.
Emmanuel Fillion:
These cathedrals, I mean, I I lived in it. I breathed them. I would not consider myself an expert like, Christian Jacque or whatever. But I think when you look at the cathedral, it's a whole philosophy behind. It's the forest.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It's a vessel. It's a cosmic vessel. I mean, the spirituality, the mysticism, the gold numbers used. I mean, this is quite amazing. And there's much more.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And I think because also they were taking the time and they were, transmitting the knowledge. But it's much more than just a building. I'm not sure we can do that today because we're in a hurry. We can. We have the knowledge to do, but I don't think we would take the time to do it.
Sarah Monk:
Well, I hope you're wrong. I diverted you from talking about
Emmanuel Fillion:
your Yeah.
Sarah Monk:
Beginnings as a sculptor.
Emmanuel Fillion:
On on a tympanium. So it was. It was the old school, after war sculptor, and you're working on
Sarah Monk:
This is the person that you were working with, sir.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Yeah. So I I met him. And every time I had a moment, I would go see him, work. He was working really hard and carving directly on the monument, you know, the limestone. He noticed that I was, you know, behind his shoulder, and he turned I remember he turned one day and he said, hey.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Do you like that? And I say, yeah. I say, when I watch you work, you know, it feels like food that I wanna eat as if you're consuming that stone. So he he brought the gravels in his hand and he say, why don't you eat it then? So then I went back to work, not knowing that the next morning he brought his partner and they asked me to work for them.
Sarah Monk:
Great.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So I became an apprentice in their
Sarah Monk:
And how old were you then?
Emmanuel Fillion:
I was 21. Yeah. And they made me a partner 1 year after. It was a special way of teaching. They drive you up to a monument.
Emmanuel Fillion:
They leave you there alone for a couple of weeks. They say, we come back. So after a week doing nothing and going around in circle, I mean, you you have to get the courage to really go. And and, yeah, I've learned a lot like that.
Sarah Monk:
And what sort of work was it?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Ornaments. A lot of ornaments. They have floral names like cabbage leaf, dog ears, orres de chien, you know, fei de choux. It's all these ornaments, small or big, trophies, exotic fruits, garlands, figures, arms, the head, all kind of so I evaluate from simplistic forms and shapes to more complicated ones. And, also, it depends on the style and it depends on the year the building was, made.
Emmanuel Fillion:
You so, for example, I could work in 1 week. I would go on Monday, work in Chambord for a couple of days, which is a crazy Renaissance style, very particular, and with mini sculptors working. So you have to respect the piece you're replacing, which is an unique piece within millions of other pieces in a certain style. So worked there couple of days and then I was called on Notre Dame, for example, go for Notre Dame a couple of days. And then Friday, I need to go to the Louvre.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So you, like, cover different style in 1 week. You have to switch like that. It was a good school. It's kind of like music, you know? If you're a musician, you play rock one day, jazz the other, and classical.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It's kind of like you're a kind of you going over You're a session musician.
Sarah Monk:
Yeah. Yes. Exactly.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So how many years did you do this? I stay in the studio for 5 years. I was 26,
Sarah Monk:
27. And it was great. I love I love to
Emmanuel Fillion:
do it, but I wanted to be an artist. I mean, actually, I think I was an artist.
Sarah Monk:
Were you doing your own creative pieces? I don't know. You have any time?
Emmanuel Fillion:
I did a few, but no, you're consumed by this life. You can't really do anything else. And I love to do it until after 5 years where I I felt like, not that I knew everything, far from that, you can always improve. And and I see it because, my friends who stayed and did it. I mean, they have an incredible craft, you know.
Emmanuel Fillion:
But I felt, it's, it's time to it's time to fly away.
Sarah Monk:
So what was the jump? What did you do when you left them?
Emmanuel Fillion:
In between, I met my wife, who's my ex wife now. But I met my wife and, she was American. Eventually, we decided to I could not stay in France. I mean, I was too close to these monuments. It would have been impossible to step away.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It's kind of like an addiction, you know, like, it was too good to carve so freely like that. It was really, really a beautiful thing. I mean, there is this feeling when you climb the the ladder of the scaffold in the morning in Paris, you know, at 7 in the morning, you climb, the scaffold, you have the sun rising, you hear the town, and the town is yours because you're in your own world. I mean, nobody has any idea you're up there. And there you are carving a piece that was designed and carved by someone, like, in the 1300.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I think I needed to step away from that to discover where I really was as an artist.
Sarah Monk:
So where in the States did you enter?
Emmanuel Fillion:
I went to California.
Sarah Monk:
California.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So I went to California and I decided to take a break from sculpture, so I started painting. Oh, it didn't last long because in between before I went to California, I met a designer and I did a little project, which I felt the the client was not completely satisfied with. And I thought, man, I'm coming here. I'm gonna make it good. You know?
Emmanuel Fillion:
I'm gonna make it right. That's that's the right way to start. So I went there. I met with the client, and I fixed it. And when I fixed it, I made it, and he say, hey, Emmanuel, why don't you do a sculpture for the middle of our driveway?
Emmanuel Fillion:
You know, we have this island. And so I went back to my, drawing board with all my monuments in my head, you know, my historical luggage. I, made this crazy scene. It's a Neptune scene with a life size horse, Neptune's in a shell, Naiad, and all this. And so it was supposed to be him as Neptune and his wife as Naiad.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So I brought the model to him, and, and he loved it. He said, oh my god. I love it. Let's just do it. How much is this gonna cost?
Emmanuel Fillion:
So I don't I don't know how much it's gonna cost.
Sarah Monk:
Is that what you got in the first time?
Emmanuel Fillion:
This is my first project in America, 30 tons of marble. And that's how I I first carved marble.
Sarah Monk:
That is quite a big first project,
Emmanuel Fillion:
isn't it? I remember it took me 2 years to do it. First, I thought it will take me 1 year. Not that I did wrong with the quality of the work, but I completely like the experience of the right approach and how to do the models and all this stuff. I was really nervous.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, I worked in restoration. I could make a statue, a model. I knew how to do this, the plaster cast. But but we're talking about a big group and I I got impressed. In California, we have the weather that is very dry.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So I I didn't wanna use the clay. When I use the clay, I mean, it was impossible to keep. So I I
Sarah Monk:
You couldn't keep it damp all the time, you mean?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Right. So I I thought thought I would take it would take 1 year, but after 1 year, I mean, I was way off. So I went back to see the client, and I say, I have a problem here. I can't finish in what I said. I I completely off here money wise.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And so I explained to him. I showed him the mathematics, you know. I said, this is how I counted my prices, and I'm not done. He said, well, Emmanuel, when do you think that you're gonna be done? I said, I don't know.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I was wrong the first time. I'm not gonna tell you a second time. Well, he say, okay. You you keep going, and when you're done, you're done. He kept me paying the installments we agreed upon.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So it took me 2 years. Great. Yeah. It was great. It was really fantastic.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And he actually ended up building a studio for me on this property, and I stayed on this property for 10 years.
Sarah Monk:
Wow.
Emmanuel Fillion:
While I was having another studio down the street. So, yeah, it was really, I made a patron that was really
Sarah Monk:
That's nice, actually, isn't it? It's kind of the old way of doing it.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Oh, yeah.
Sarah Monk:
Unusual that you'd start with stories and then actually almost have like a Renaissance experience.
Emmanuel Fillion:
You should have seen his face, his facial expression when I told him that I never carved marble before. At the end.
Sarah Monk:
When did you tell him that?
Emmanuel Fillion:
At the end. So that was my first marble project.
Sarah Monk:
Wonderful. So tell me, generally, how would you describe your work?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's figurative, more or less simplified or representation of nature. My background was heavy on me because you have so much admiration for great masters and, all the work I've been privileged to be so close to. But you gotta be yourself.
Emmanuel Fillion:
You gotta find your own path. I think I'm always searching. I'm very curious. If you if you are gonna think of yourself from within, you think of who you are. Well, you're not really one person.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, you're many things. So it's kind of the way it is in my head. I'm trying to just express my emotions through my work and my murations. For example, there's no doubt that my my emotions for women is present in my work. And it is probably the most important thing.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I admire women. I like to deify them. Women are beautiful. All women are beautiful.
Sarah Monk:
Did you sorry. Did you say deify them?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Yes. You're the source of life. You could do without us, probably. We cannot do without you. This is definitely an endless source of inspiration.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And I think the way women are treated today and before, but still today, we think of ourselves civilized. It's not good. So I create my world. I go in my head, and I, find this moment of meditation in a way where I work on something that I think is the most beautiful thing at the moment. When I start making a work, a sculpture, I think the first thing that comes to me is a contemplative appreciation of something.
Emmanuel Fillion:
For example, I did some work with burn wood. So it's a contemplative fascination with fire and the beauty that it creates afterwards when it burns down. I mean, it's destruction, but there's something beautiful about it. So all this is tied in with the Japanese philosophy about wabi sabi, about accepting the beauty in decay, and to see beauty even in broken things. Because beauty is not just about the aspect.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It's also about the moment and what it represents. For example, we call something wabi sabi in Japan. If a child breaks a cup, they might not try to glue it so it doesn't show that it's being broken. They might just put gold into the crack, which is wabi sabi because then you remember that moment when that child broke the cup, which was a dear moment in a way. So the cup is twice as beautiful.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It was beautiful before. It's twice as beautiful because it's been broken by a child, and then you fix it with gold. I may sound like I'm going all over the place. No.
Sarah Monk:
It is. Not at all.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It sounds
Sarah Monk:
it sounds like you're honoring the experiences rather than having Yes. Affection.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I I believe the viewer, people will will appreciate the work. They will see through. I don't need to explain it or I don't need to be so clear with myself. I think I just it's just that emotion. And I think it's what differentiates the craftsman from the artist.
Emmanuel Fillion:
The craftsman makes amazing, beautiful things, but they're within restrain of dimensions, deadlines, cost because they have to make this thing, which mostly they haven't designed. The craftsman can do what what you see, but the artist is gonna try to do what you can't see and show it to you with some medium.
Sarah Monk:
And boatwood, of course, lasts very long. Doesn't it?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Shou suji ban is a technique of wood, burning. So they burn the wood. I mean, not totally, of course. They burn the wood, dip it in water, cool it down really quickly. And once the wood is burned, first, it's really hard to catch fire again because it's burned.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So it has already burned all the, the fuel the fuel that fills the fire. And also the insects don't like to to go in to burn wood. So it's really protective. Yeah. Very, very strong.
Sarah Monk:
Do you wanna show me anything in particular?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Oh, wow.
Sarah Monk:
It's a beautiful catalog. Tell me about the catalog.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Three themes. Dancing, which was probably the first piece, which I made before working for the show.
Sarah Monk:
How did that come about? What how
Emmanuel Fillion:
was that? Commission, for No Maj to Martha Graham. The original piece went to a sculpture garden of the Wallace Theatre in Beverly Hills. So the Altenburg Foundation commissioned me to do this piece, and I think this opened an incredible world to me, the world of dance. I use a few models.
Emmanuel Fillion:
They came from the Prejour Caj Company. It's a dancing company, Nexen Provence, and they're very, very famous. They do incredible work. They were amazing. That was the most amazing experience I've ever had working with models.
Emmanuel Fillion:
First of all, there were men and women together. They were so comfortable with nudity and what they could do with our body, like dancing, placements. All I could see was like moving sculptures. You know? Like, I I didn't see them as people anymore.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It was like moving sculptures around me. I was like, oh my god. I have a lifetime of inspiration here. And when I do, I I I mean, I have a a whole catalog of shots, we did with the photographer because I wanted to stay focused on directing them. I guess that's what I love.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It's expression the corporal expression, you know, like, when you process your body because we are not our body. We are our soul. You being given this body in a way, then it's what you do with it. You either treat it well or not treat it well. But, also, if you decide to master that body, I mean, it's amazing what you can do with it, I mean, on many levels.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And, I I thought that was fascinating. And what I liked about the dancing is Martha Graham, she had this very distinctive choreography with fabrics where the bodies were entangled into fabrics. So I like the contemporary kind of aspect of it where the body disappears within the fabric, but you still see the body. So that's what I was inspired by. I did a few sculptures like that.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So this is a smaller version. And and what I did for the show, I did a triptych of this same sculpture. I thought it was very interesting to show the public how sculpture changes with material. So this is from marble, which is carved, to, polished bronze, to natural bronze, patina. So this is part of the same thing also in black marble.
Sarah Monk:
This one is polished?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Polished bronze. Yeah. Polished white bronze. 1 was in marble. 1 was in polished white bronze, and the other one was in bronze as well, but with a regular patina, more traditional.
Emmanuel Fillion:
And they're completely different sculptures. I mean, it's the same shape, same same thing, same subject. But I think it comes out completely different. And I but I in that case, it was interesting because I love all of them.
Sarah Monk:
So I'm trying to identify the difference. In what way are they different? Is
Emmanuel Fillion:
this feeling feeling? Yeah. It's a feeling. The feeling, for example, I think the white marble, it's so beautiful and fine. There is this purity coming out of it.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It's holy in a way. So you're taking to some place where when you see the polished bronze, it reflects the surroundings. So it lives differently. It's more open to the outside, I guess. It has a a little bit of a more, design effect, I would say.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It becomes maybe more of an object, you know. And the traditional bronze, which is the large sculpture that I made for the sculpture garden, is in traditional bronze with a beautiful patina. I think it becomes more kind of classic even though it's not classic. The figure about thing is expected, I go
Sarah Monk:
say. Yes. Yes. More more traditional.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Yeah. More
Sarah Monk:
traditional. And, yeah, longer lasting. So your themes you said there were 3. Thank you.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So then then the other one is
Sarah Monk:
the green tea. Thank you.
Emmanuel Fillion:
As I'm talking, I see the dancers. The dancers are all about movements, implied the shapes, and all this. And then I did the Kimbaku sculpture where the women are tied. A lot of people say, oh, it's BD SM and all this. Well, it's not.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, it's bondage, but it's not SM. And it's very interesting because most of the supporters are women. People who appreciate the most are women. And I think it's because, first, probably a lot of men are concerned and cautious about what to say and what to comment about it, even if they fantasize about it. But there is a whole story behind the art of shibari.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, shibari is a new word in western, but we call it kimbaku, which is the art of tiding. So there is definitely an aesthetic aspect, which draws me the art of searching for the most beautiful thing, but most beautiful way to tie a knot and the most beautiful way to tie the woman or men. I pick woman because I think they're much more beautiful, but it's not limited to, women. You're either someone who tie or you're being tied. To me, it represents the power that women have today because all these women are not restrained.
Emmanuel Fillion:
They're decided to be there. It's all about the pleasure of being tied and surrender and trust and let go. You have to understand that the art of kimbe ku is being practiced for centuries. They practiced for centuries how to tie knots and how to tie people. The Japanese use this art to tie prisoners on the side of the road.
Emmanuel Fillion:
You know, when you capture someone, you wanna tie them up on the side of the road. So they really developed these techniques to keep you tight on this side of the road. So with the kimbaku, you have this. And it's all about the relationship with the rope, which is made of natural fibers, jude and linen, and it's a mix. And all these rope, it's the way it circulates on your skin.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, I've seen women go off like they reach a nirvana. They almost pass out. They leave another experience. They go in Is it painful? No.
Emmanuel Fillion:
No. No. No. No. Should not be painful.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I personally don't get tired.
Sarah Monk:
But Do you tie?
Emmanuel Fillion:
Well, I'm a very novice, more I was more out of, curiosity and, because I mean, people who tide, it's very serious. It takes years years years. You have to learn, with the master in your dojo. You have to practice a lot. I mean, it's not something you do lightly.
Sarah Monk:
African queen.
Emmanuel Fillion:
African queen. Yes. It's when I started to, make all these beautiful carvings in white Bianco P and statuario. I remember a lot of my black friends, women, they came to me and say, Emmanuel, why you don't sculpt black women? I say, well, because you guys not around, really.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, I need the model. You know? And I really heard them because I like that idea to not be limited to just one kind or one gender or whatever, one color. And and I felt like, well, I'm not gonna sculptor a black woman in white marble. It kind of doesn't make sense because part of their beauty is their color.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, it's not a color, but, you know, it's being black. So I went in a quarry in Belgium. I purchased some beautiful black marble blocks, and I was definitely determined to sculpt black woman. So there is my African queen and there is African beauty. And, it's really, an homage to them also, and I hope I hope they're happy.
Emmanuel Fillion:
But I think a lot of them, they express their content.
Sarah Monk:
They're very beautiful.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Yeah. And and and the the burned wood, actually. The burned wood too. I put a a trunk on the African queen base because I needed the support for the the sculpture. But but I wanted also to tie in, the idea that she's standing on burned ground.
Emmanuel Fillion:
You know, how Western civilization really took advantage of Africa without giving back. So I wanted to show how beautiful she can be standing there proud on burned ground. Because of my experience in Malibu, when I had my studio, I experienced a few fires. And in the south of France, they have fires too where I lived. All these are events that happens in your life, and eventually, you put them together.
Emmanuel Fillion:
You know, I I experienced the fire. I never thought about it at the time, but then walking through the hills in the forest and see how beautiful it is after the fire. I mean, the fire is really a necessity for the forest to rebirth. Of course, we see destruction because we build where we should not probably and or not properly and not, being protected. But the forest after a fire grows twice as beautiful, full of flowers, new trees.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I mean, it's fantastic. Some trees can only grow because of the fire because the the heat of the fire will help the seed to, open and be released. So going back to this idea of double perception of everything, what you see is not necessarily what it is. When you see a fire, like, when you see a burned trunk and you say, oh my god. It's burned.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Well, it's life too because the fire brings life. When you see a tied up woman where actually she's not tied in her mind and spirit and soul, She might be tied physically, but she's actually very free to be there and, the relationship she has with the person who ties her and the reason she's there. So everything, I think, in my work is also a second way of saying things you should take the time to do.
Sarah Monk:
So what happened to you during lockdown? Where were you? How did you work? We're talking in September 2020.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Mhmm.
Sarah Monk:
And none of us really know where we are on this pandemic trajectory.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Lockdown. I think a lot of artists will say the same thing. They're like, oh, what happened for you with COVID? Well, just the same. I locked myself up in a studio and work, or I contemplate things.
Emmanuel Fillion:
You know? I meditate. So for an artist, I think lockdown is not much at all. It's just good because we don't need to go out. I mean, we're not allowed to go out and drink and party.
Emmanuel Fillion:
So we just focus on work. That was good for that. But, yeah, it was not a good experience, to see where the United States is going now and the the amount of tension there. I I really was affected. For the first time, I felt like, oh, boy.
Emmanuel Fillion:
I don't wanna be there. No. People are crazy. I mean, everybody, my friend. And I understand.
Emmanuel Fillion:
It's it's it's, they're being fed, all this negative news all day long. So either, on that side or either they're on the other side, they're all crazy. I mean, they're all worked up, very disappointed. I think, raised yeah. 2 type of people.
Emmanuel Fillion:
Whereas people who got all worked up and suffered from that, and there's people that probably, realize what is important in life. And definitely being surrounded by the loved ones is important. The thing I miss the most is socializing with my family and my friends. The human interaction is definitely one time gets to you. Even though we are, you know, like, artists, we can be self sufficient, but you realize that's not it.
Emmanuel Fillion:
As much as I love to find my retreat when I go to work and when I carve and when I go model clay and find my space, I think I wanna be yeah. I wanna be with people. I mean, we need each other.
Sarah Monk:
So thanks to Emmanuel Fillon. You can see his work on his Instagram at filon sculptures, or his website, emmanuelfillon.com. And thanks to you for listening. As with all episodes, you can find photographs of the work discussed on our website, materiallyspeaking.com, or on Instagram. If you're enjoying Materially Speaking, please subscribe to our newsletter on our website so we can send you news and let you know when the next episode goes live.
Sarah Monk:
And if you feel moved to leave a rating or review on your favorite podcast platform, we'll be delighted as that will help people find us. In our next episode, I'll be talking to American born, Jaya Schurig, one of the cofounders of Studio Pascarella in Pietro Santa. It's important to me that my sculptures feel alive. Pulling out the aliveness of the stone, showing the absolute connection that stone has for me with life. There's an inherent tension in life, all the different ways that you get pulled, all the different ways that you navigate through your life.
Sarah Monk:
And a lot of my pieces are about that. Listen out for Jez Shurig, Living Stone.