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What if you could get more of what you want in life? But not through pushing, forcing, or pressure.
You can.
When it comes to money, time, and energy, no one’s gonna turn away more.
And Kate Northrup, Bestselling Author of Money: A Love Story and Do Less and host of Plenty, is here to help you expand your capacity to receive all of the best.
As a Money Empowerment OG who’s been at it for nearly 2 decades, Kate’s the abundance-oriented best friend you may not even know you’ve always needed.
Pull up a chair every week with top thought leaders, luminaries, and adventurers to learn how to have more abundance with ease.
We haven't seen a lot of women in tech. We haven't seen a lot of people using technology, specifically as women. So we don't look at it as a path for us. Like, my mom's a teacher. My dad's a preacher, so I never saw a path into technology or even business or for a lack of better word, but, like, there was no path in my mind for that until I saw other opportunities for paths.
Brooke Merkevicius:Oh, I have a big mission driven heart. Well, people are using technology to achieve mission driven, accomplishment.
Kate Northrup:Today, I have Brooke Markovichis on the podcast. She is the author of the new book, The Future Built by Women, Creating a Brighter Tomorrow Through Tech and Innovation, which is an incredible handbook if you are starting a business of any kind, especially if it involves tech solutions. So Brooke has been featured by Forbes and Fast Company. She was the creator, the founder of Alaby, which became acquired. And Brooke and I met many years when she was a member of my membership origin.
Kate Northrup:And in today's episode, we talk about why women in tech, why women are here to build a more beautiful future, how to work within the GEMS framework to build anything of meaning, how to use community and lean into support, and also the difference between a bootstrapped business and a venture backed business, positives and negatives about both, and what you need to know if you are building to sell. Enjoy the episode. Welcome to Plenti. I'm your host, Kate Northrup, and together, we are going on a journey to help you have an incredible relationship with money, time, and energy, and to have abundance on every possible level. Every week, we're gonna dive in with experts and insights to help you unlock a life of plenty.
Kate Northrup:Let's go fill our cups.
Brooke Merkevicius:Please note that the opinions and perspectives of the guests on the Plenty podcast are not necessarily reflective of the opinions and perspectives of Kate Northrup or anyone who works within the Kate Northrup brand.
Kate Northrup:Hi, Brooke. Hey, Kate. Thank you for being here.
Brooke Merkevicius:Of course.
Kate Northrup:I'm so it's we're so excited to hear about your book, about you selling your company. It's just and I know we've known each other on the Internet for many years, and I wanna go back to where were you when you first heard about, my previous membership origin, and what were you doing in your life, and what had you join that community?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. I think I joined Origin right after your beta. I was actually just talking to somebody about this the other day. So I was like, when did I first hear about Kate? So I was pregnant with my second, So that would have been, like, set almost 7 years ago.
Brooke Merkevicius:And I was in that phase of mom of 1 toddler getting ready to have another, but still bursting with ideas, but not knowing how to manage motherhood and business at the same time.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Amazing. And what were you doing work wise at that time?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. So I had when I had my daughter, about 10 years ago, I left working at Postmates, so in tech, when they wrote about series b, working in fast paced startups. I wanted more flexibility. So I started freelancing and consulting in tech and loved that and was doing a lot of that when throughout the time of having my first and into my second. But when I was having about to have my second, actually helped to cofound a co working space called the Pod Works in Tacoma, Washington that was focused on integrating a space for motherhood and parenthood while building businesses.
Kate Northrup:Okay.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. So it was right before Alibi.
Kate Northrup:Right before Alibi. And before that, you were in the nonprofit Yes. Sector. Yes. What were you doing there?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. So I started my career. I graduated in 2008 during the recession and thought I was going to be a teacher, but there were no teaching jobs actually at the time. And so I went into nonprofit and worked in a center for kids with extreme behavior and emotional issues, and then ended up joining a women's center that focused on women that were going through, domestic violence situations and homelessness. And I worked my way up there pretty fast into being a director of the domestic violence shelter and loved it, but also didn't see much of a flexible path once I started having kids.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so I fell into the world of tech kind of unintentionally, but also a little intentional. I had heard a lot about companies like Microsoft doing a lot of really great things for tech for good. So they were building centers in 3rd world countries to help teach people technology to help get them out of poverty. And I was like, okay. There's a lot here that can be used for good, and so I decided to go back to grad school and dive into the world of tech.
Kate Northrup:And there was one particular video that you saw with your husband. Can you describe what was moving about that for you?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. So my husband showed me this video as he was onboarding for, like, a new role at Microsoft, and they were showing these 3rd world countries where tech was being built, but also here in the states where they were going into low income communities and helping specifically women to get technology skills and helping them to learn more and eventually learn how to code, but as simple as learning how to set up email addresses and all of that. And so it was just a really impactful moment that kind of flipped a switch for me. That was, like, this is something that can be used for good, not just, you know, big corporations or getting a burrito to your door faster.
Kate Northrup:Right. Which is where you started. Yeah. Which I will just say services like Postmates have made my life Oh, a 100%. Better.
Kate Northrup:But you also are very mission driven, and so you wanna have that bigger that bigger impact. Yeah. And that's actually you know, the data shows from the research I've done that and I was interested in the parallels in what I read about the data in your book about women in tech and the trends you've seen. It's actually similar with women and money that what we see is that when women have more resources, and I think we could say financial resources, technological skills resources, access to power, and, you know, and choices, what happens is we naturally invest in solutions that are good for the entire community. Naturally, everyone's outcomes get better.
Kate Northrup:Everyone's productivity gets better. Everyone's health improves, all of that. And I'm just curious from what you've seen being in tech, being around a lot of women founders. Why do you think it is that that's the data? Why do you think women naturally invest in building a better future when they get financial or tech resources or both in their hands?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. So I think this goes back to my nonprofit experiences. People would always ask us at the nonprofit, what do you need? Like, do you need volunteer hours? Do you need us to drop off donations?
Brooke Merkevicius:Like, no. We need money. We need money. And it's great you wanna come volunteer and all of that, but we need money. And I remember my husband's boss, when he was early in his career, told him that the best thing that Microsoft gave her was the amount of money to invest in the nonprofits that she loved.
Brooke Merkevicius:And I was like, that's that's what I wanna do. I wanna be able to make money. So, yes, I can build solutions, but also so I can give back to my community and to things that I believe in. And I think that women, intrinsically, probably because of our deeper empathy that we have, we naturally want to solve problems that we see that are hurting people or that we're impacted by. And so if we have the time before we have the money, we often give our time.
Brooke Merkevicius:And that's why we have less time than a lot of people because women want to give of our time. But once we are able to have money to give back, it's kind of the first thing that we're ready to to donate, to give back to the community, but also to build solutions that will help women and other people that are struggling in different ways to solve those problems and to be able to get out of that. I think we naturally wanna see women and community succeed. So whatever way we can do that time or money, we wanna give back. Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:And for you, you were so you started your co working space because you saw other parents needing that flexibility and the ability to have childcare or have playtime while also working. Yeah. And then what was it that happened that made you realize that wasn't exactly what you needed to be focused on?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. So I I feel like it's a very motherly thing, but I was nursing on the couch at this co working space, and I I was just thinking about how all of these women had come up to me in the last and men in the last few weeks and were telling me specifically, like, oh, we just like, we're frustrated with Upwork or other platforms out there, because we have to constantly be on. We have no flexibility with it to build up our profiles, and we really would love a place that's kind of like you where you're always connecting people to jobs and resources. And I was like, this is a problem that I need to solve and I'm uniquely positioned to solve because I have this tech experience that I wasn't really using in building a co working space. And I love the community of it.
Brooke Merkevicius:I love building community, but I had this unique skill set that would allow me to build a tech a tech platform to really amplify flexibility for women.
Kate Northrup:What do you think some of the misunderstandings are that women have about tech that keep us from leaning into that sector?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. I think it goes all the way back to childhood and our representations of the fact that we haven't seen a lot of women in tech. We haven't seen a lot of people using technology, specifically as women. So we don't look at it as a path for us. Like, my mom's a teacher.
Brooke Merkevicius:My dad's a preacher. So I never saw a path into technology or even business and or for a lack of a better word. But, like, there was no path in my mind for that until I saw other opportunities for paths. Oh, I have a big mission driven heart. Well, people are using technology to achieve mission driven accomplishment.
Brooke Merkevicius:So that was a different path. I saw a way in that wasn't just through another person. And I think a lot of times we think that technology, the only way we can use it is by, like, being a coder or, you know, building specifically the software. But technology, women use it every day. And I think we need to start flipping that and thinking, well, how can I build using technology instead of technology being the only element to the equation?
Kate Northrup:Well, it's funny. I met here in Miami. I've met where I come from in Maine, like, this is not a conversation.
Brooke Merkevicius:I totally agree.
Kate Northrup:Like, I met many companies. And so then I moved to Miami, and all these people are like, oh, I have a tech company. Yeah. And so I never really knew what that meant. And I met this one particular woman who was telling me about her company, and she was like, I have a tech company.
Kate Northrup:I was just digging deeper and finding I'm very curious. So I was like, okay. Cool. What does that mean? Yeah.
Kate Northrup:What does it do? And, essentially, she and I have fundamentally the same business. And I was like, wow. That's so interesting. She teaches, it's a content Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Based educational platform. Yeah. And her clients are slightly different than mine, but, like, it is literally basically the same thing. And I was like, that's so interesting. And I think it just has to do with her educational background and where she came up versus the kind of industry I came up in.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:But never in a 1000000 years would I ever introduce myself as someone who owns a tech company. Mhmm. But I guess, technically, as an online business owner, that's what I do. And your book helped me to see that, and I think to think about technical solutions in a way, you know, we went down the path of possibly building an app. We decided to not do that.
Kate Northrup:You know, all these different things of just really seeing how that could be part of an identity
Brooke Merkevicius:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:As opposed to thinking like, oh, that's for other people. I think that was a block that I had was like, oh, that's not me. That's for other people who, like, went to Stanford Yeah. Or know how to code. I mean, I know how to, like, break the back end of WordPress, and that's that's basically it.
Brooke Merkevicius:Like, I
Kate Northrup:know how to, like, make a word bold Yeah. For from a coding perspective. It's
Brooke Merkevicius:like Hey. That's something.
Kate Northrup:Literally about
Brooke Merkevicius:it. But you spent so much time and think about how much technology has changed since you start your started your business.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. I mean, it was 2,000 well, I mean, technically, I started my business 20 years ago. But but, like, in earnest, this iteration of the business started in about 2,009.
Brooke Merkevicius:Well, and think about the shifts just from, like, Facebook groups to other platforms.
Kate Northrup:Well, when I started it, nobody used Facebook for business.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:It was literally before that time,
Brooke Merkevicius:which is wild. Well and I found, which has been interesting, like, the differences between, like, solo entrepreneurship or bootstrapping companies versus these tech, quote, unquote, companies is, honestly, the bootstrappers know way more hacks and ways to get through stuff and can actually build more profitable businesses faster than the other approach of, like, oh, I'm gonna build this platform. I spend so much money on it, and I waste all of this money, and then I'm not profitable.
Kate Northrup:Well yeah. So let's break that down. I didn't really understand the funding world at all because I just wasn't around it. I never it never occurred to me to get funding. And, actually, one of my friends, Arielle Lauren, has been on the podcast, and we talked a lot about the, barriers for getting capital to women, and she's she specializes in getting more capital in the hands of women for their businesses, which was great.
Kate Northrup:So folks can we'll we'll link that episode in the show notes. But can you just break down some of the differences? So so our business from day 1 has been focused on profit. I've never taken on investor capital. You know, in the early days, I sort of was, like, building my business care of Mastercard.
Kate Northrup:So there was definitely some a little bit of a little bit of a of credit card debt, which I'm was I I I stand by that choice, making some of those investments, which is why in my programs for anyone listening, I talk about the difference between consumer debt and investment debt. They are not the same thing. All debt is not equal. Yeah. And it just never occurred to me to take on investors, and it was just I don't know that it would have made sense in my business model.
Kate Northrup:But, yeah, can you just kind of lay out some of the differences of, like, a profit focused business versus a growth focused business and and the bootstrapping versus taking on investment money.
Brooke Merkevicius:For sure. A lot of people, one of the first questions they ask me is, like, why did I decide to raise funding for LOB? And the reason I specifically did is because a mentor asked me, how fast do you wanna make an impact? And so for me, I really wanted to make an impact fast. I was like, we're in a very fast moving economy.
Brooke Merkevicius:The pandemic hadn't hit yet, but I was coming, which I didn't know at the time. When was it
Kate Northrup:that you started Alibi? Just to kind of put
Brooke Merkevicius:us in time. 2017. So that's when I first started. And as it was ramping up, obviously, the world changed a lot. But we were already talking about remote work.
Brooke Merkevicius:The gig economy was there and all of that. And so I saw that, like, stuff is happening, and we need to move quickly. And so for me, it was really a, here's what's going on in the economy. I wanted to make an impact fast. And I thought that the best way to do that at the time was to take on venture capital funding.
Brooke Merkevicius:But I invested myself and in a bit with debt as well into the company originally to get it moving faster. And some days, I wish maybe I should have just stuck with that model, but you you live and you learn. And I don't regret taking on funding. So the difference between it is really that if you want to take on venture capital funding, you have to show that you have a lot of traction within your company very quickly. So you're bringing on lots of clients or users depending on what kind of, you know, platform or product you're building.
Brooke Merkevicius:And you need to be able to scale that rapidly. So maybe in your business, it was great to get, you know, 500 new members too, or even 200. You know? But this would be, like, a 1000, 2 1000, 10000 plus to be able to reach those milestones. And so there's different milestones.
Brooke Merkevicius:There's pre seed, seed, series a, series b, and that really just looks at how much money is coming into the company. And so I raised about $600,000 for my company, and that was on the lower end. Yeah. But I knew that we could hit profitability faster. And so I always still had a bootstrap mindset, which I think in the end did me well, because I was able to last like, have that amount of money last a lot longer Yeah.
Brooke Merkevicius:Because I was really smart about getting you.
Kate Northrup:How to bootstrap. So one of the things that I've learned is that some I don't I won't say many because I Yeah. Know percentages here. Some people who have only had venture backed businesses don't actually know how to make a company profitable without just constantly infusing it with cash from investors
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:Which to me is, like, very smoke and mirrors. Like, that's not actually business. That's just taking donations.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:Can you talk about that? And and this is I'm just revealing the part of myself that's kind of judgy.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:I'm like, I'm like, what are you doing?
Brooke Merkevicius:It's a wild world, and I think it's a lot comes from perspective of, like, if people are coming from either business school or they're coming from the start up world, they always have looked at it this way. And so how they were taught. That's how they were taught. And so they see it as my financial model needs to look like this. And it's it's all a game in in many ways.
Kate Northrup:I mean Well, no. I mean, the entire economy and money is
Brooke Merkevicius:a game. It's a game.
Kate Northrup:It's pretense. I talk about it all the time.
Brooke Merkevicius:It is. And you have to kind of take that mindset and zoom out a little bit as you're approaching it. And I think from, like sometimes it's a little hard because you're, like, ethically, I'm not sure I'm gonna hit that number anytime soon. You know? But I need to show the best that I can in this model to investors that I'm gonna be able to hit this.
Kate Northrup:Like, a financial model, just for those who don't understand what you're talking about, is what? So, basically, it's projections
Brooke Merkevicius:Okay. Of what you believe that your company is going to be able to make based off of how many users in that traction that you're growing on a regular basis. So it's, you know, it's fast, and it can lose a lot of that community element. It can use a, you know, lose a lot of the flexibility your team might have because you're scaling so rapidly. It's really hard to keep it all intact.
Kate Northrup:And and that happens. To you? Yes. So as you took on investor money, you were losing some of that flexibility that you had wanted to begin with.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. For myself, for my team, for our users in many ways too because we were having to scale at all cost. So when you hear maybe that you might have heard that in in the world of venture capital, but you literally are scaling no matter what. And you have to hit those because you have to keep raising because you are taking donations in many ways. You have to keep going.
Kate Northrup:I mean and just to be clear for, you know, folks listening, like, the pea the reason of, somebody invests is because they're, you know, they're banking on your company making money so that there will be a payout. It you know, it is different than charity when you know you're not getting that money back. Like, the idea is if somebody runs a venture fund, some percentage of the companies they invest in will go big, some will flop. But in the end, they come out on top based on the the portfolio of companies that they've invested in. So just to be clear.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. Just to be clear, it's not actually doing this.
Kate Northrup:Being, you know, kind of
Brooke Merkevicius:But it's very it's a very risky business model, and so I get it from the perspective, and I took it very seriously as, you know, as a CEO and basically the head of my board at the at the time is I have to have that what's called fiduciary responsibility of the money that's coming in to make sure that we're going to see a profit, that there's going to be an exit eventually, in some capacity for my investors. So then you're working for somebody.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. And how did that feel to you? It definitely It's, you know, share whatever you wanna share. I'm just curious what that was like.
Brooke Merkevicius:I think at first, with our first angel investors, they were really behind the mission. And so they were behind the mission in me. And so that made a big difference, and that was really helpful. But as we raised more and as it got to the point where we needed to raise even more to stay alive, it became where I lost a lot of what I loved about the company. Not just the flexibility, but also kind of the soul of the company in many ways because I was having to lose a lot of why I built the company.
Brooke Merkevicius:It couldn't be as values driven and mission driven at that point. And because scaling at all costs means hurting some element of the business.
Kate Northrup:In terms of just the heartbeat
Brooke Merkevicius:of, like heartbeat of values.
Kate Northrup:And it sounds like in this case, at that core was flexibility for families Yeah. And being able to be present. And so it sounds like what was what was maybe hurt in that for a short period of time Yeah.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:Was that ability to, like, go on the field trip with your kids or whatever what have you.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. Now when you started Alo b, did you set out building to sell? I think you always do if you wanna take in venture capital in some capacity. Very few actually IPO or, you know, get to ring the bell and all of that. So you know that some sort of exit path is going to be on the horizon.
Brooke Merkevicius:You don't know how soon that's gonna be. I thought it would be, you know, 10 plus years down down the road. But you have to be open to kind of whatever the economy and the timing throws at you. And so it definitely wasn't the time I thought I would get an exit. But, as I've learned, an exit is an exit.
Brooke Merkevicius:So you have to be kind of open and willing to set yourself a little bit apart from your business as well and figure out what's the best for the business, not necessarily for yourself in that moment. Wow. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:I mean, that sounds hard.
Brooke Merkevicius:It really does. I'm sure you can I mean, as I think any business owner can relate it, especially if you put, like, your heart and soul into it and attach your identity to it for so long? It's really hard to do that. But kind of back to that fiduciary responsibility, I just see what was the best for the company and for my investors because they were really my boss at that point. At that point.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:And so, how did you know that the timing was right for the company? How did you know that this was the right decision? Because I have many friends who have been approached to sell Yeah. And have said no because for whatever reason it was wrong. So if anyone's listening Yeah.
Kate Northrup:Considering building to sell or in that situation where people are knocking at their door, what's some advice you would pass along?
Brooke Merkevicius:Definitely spend time talking to a lot of different people and perspectives about where your business is at and other founders, other people that are trying to raise that we were trying to raise at the time. But 2022 was a wild year in the economy. And so, basically, come summer of 2022, investors just kind of took a break. And they had had a very crazy few years, so I don't blame them. But, they kind of went silent on everybody.
Brooke Merkevicius:And when women only get 2% of the funding to begin with, when investors go silent, you're you're in trouble. And so, I really spent the summer of 2022 trying to figure out how can I, one, make my company more appealing and profitable for a potential exit? And 2, is there any technology we can build into the platform that will help to either make more money for us to keep the lights on or to potentially be, you know, enticing to an exit as well. Mhmm. And I'm glad I spent that summer doing that instead of being too focused on trying to find investors that would talk to me as it was worthless at that point.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so I told myself I would give myself one more sprint of trying to fundraise in the fall of 2022, and we got some less than desirable terms given to us by some investors. And, after talking to my investors and the team, we decided that a path to exit would be better. So we shopped it around and, found a home for the company.
Kate Northrup:Wow. Yeah. So that was in fall of 2022. And is that when you sold? Yeah.
Kate Northrup:We literally closed
Brooke Merkevicius:on, New Year's Eve of 2022. Wow.
Kate Northrup:Okay. So it's been about a year and a half. Yeah. Yeah. Do you miss it?
Brooke Merkevicius:I do in some ways. Now having the perspective of a year and a half, I feel like the idea of my company was a little early.
Kate Northrup:Oh.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so which is interesting to see now, is that, actually, I think it would have done better now, but we couldn't have kept it alive in that in between. And so that gives me a little piece to, like, know that that's okay and that some of the investors that told me that back in 2022 were not wrong, which is great to know that they were paying attention. But we're just now seeing this more niche focused era of technology, and that's really what I had built. But at the time, we were still in the Upwork very broad era. Right.
Kate Northrup:Because just to be clear, the niche of Alibi was, people like myself.
Brooke Merkevicius:I was
Kate Northrup:I was client. Yeah. People like myself who needed contractors. Yeah. And those contractors that you had gathered were moms.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Yeah. They were also needed flexible work schedule, but were highly skilled and could come in. And it was great as a customer because it was, like, if I needed somebody to do graphic design work and one of your people that we had been matched with couldn't do it, they were able to be transferred to another one. It was, like, it was quite seamless, and the customer service was excellent.
Kate Northrup:So So just to be clear, like, that was the that was the idea. And I think, you know, I also am someone who has been ahead of the curve on things. Like, when I now, like, every influencer under the sun is talking about cyclical planning and launching supplement lines around it and whatever. And, like, when I started talking about that in 2016, 2017, people thought I was nuts. I mean, like and then back in my the the eighties nineties when my mom was talking about it, they were, like, literally thought she was insane.
Kate Northrup:But, anyway, you know, you just it is what it is. Right? Like, we hope that or at least I see it. Some people will or or, like, then a bunch of big people after I had started talking about du less, a bunch of big people started selling programs about about working less and earning more. And and I was, like, early on in the curve of kind of the anti hustle movement and whatever.
Kate Northrup:And some people will come and be like, oh, did you see this person doing this? Like, doesn't that make you feel who's he, what's he, whatever? And I'm like, no. Yeah. Like, we're all on the same team.
Kate Northrup:Exactly. Which brings me to my next question about that 2%.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:So only 2% of venture funding goes to women founders. Yeah. I mean, I think we can really look at the history and understand why that's the case. And so we don't need to go into that, but it is important to to understand. Now for some women, they would take that stat and be like, given that there's such a small pot, I now need to try to take out any other woman founder who's going after those same limited dollars.
Kate Northrup:Is that the perspective you took, or did you go about it differently?
Brooke Merkevicius:I went about it differently, but I definitely saw that other people were going about it in a ruthless, mentality. And I don't particularly blame them. It is a rough world out there. And when you're trying to raise money, you have to be very focused and kind of your blinders on. I do believe that.
Brooke Merkevicius:But I think that I knew, however I was building my business, I needed to do it in the most, like, ethical way that I could sleep at night.
Kate Northrup:Yes.
Brooke Merkevicius:And and really, I got into it to support women. I needed to still be supporting women in many ways. And so I really focused on building, like, alliances and coalitions in many ways with other female founders. 1, for the, like, community support I needed and the literal support of, like, having a friend to be able to call and go, you know, do you have any advice on my pitch deck or how I can do this better? Because I'm hitting up against this wall with investors right now.
Brooke Merkevicius:Or, you know, do you know this investor or have an introduction to this investor for me? Because as women, we really need every end that we can get to help us to get that funding, and all of the different support levers that we can pull. And so I really took it as, you know, if I'm gonna build this, I need to do it together in community with other women. Love that.
Kate Northrup:And you had said last night at your book event that you found that the community and collaboration element in my, like, my industry, which is personal development, the coaching space, we're, like, all about community and sharing, but that when you went into the venture world raising the tech space, it wasn't as much like that. But you were able to bring some of what you had learned about community over into that space. And what were like, can you give me I mean, you already sort of did, but do you have a particular example of when your support network was crucial in your journey building and then selling Alibi?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. So I actually the way I got an exit was because of that community that I had built. So the founder of The Riveter, Amy Nelson, she Okay. Knew me through, some other people that I knew as well as I was a member of her early co working space in Seattle. And so having those connections and forming those alliances early on ended up helping me actually get an exit.
Brooke Merkevicius:It's also how I got a book deal. So I've you have to have those times where you're giving more than you're receiving. You can't do that all the time. And for, like, 3 years, I was definitely taking more than, you know, giving because I was so focused on building a company. Yeah.
Brooke Merkevicius:But I spent a lot of years giving to people and helping to support them, and that ended up giving back to me so much. And so I think I encourage women a lot. Like, when you're in a more downtime or not as hustle time of your business, make sure that you're still giving back to a lot of people, helping them get into the rooms that they need to help mentor when you can and support. You don't have to be, like, a full time mentor, but, like, jump on a call here and there when somebody asks you. So then when you need to call in a favor, the favors are there to be given, or people are gonna remember you.
Brooke Merkevicius:I think that's the the best gift that women can give to each other is to mention them in each in rooms that they're not in.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. I love that so much. And I think that's such a beautiful way. Sometimes when things maybe are slower in business, by design or sometimes just because they are, we can go into this sense of, like, this is a problem. Right?
Kate Northrup:Because we're so brainwashed to be in perpetual harvest, and there are going to be fallow seasons. There are gonna be cover crop seasons. There are gonna be seasons where it's just time to have more of a pause. And I think that directive you just gave of make that the season that you with that extra time, you also are able to be generously sharing resources, making a connection over here, sharing a piece of wisdom over here. And so often we can think about, like, well, I don't you know, if if you don't have financial resources to give or they've been earmarked elsewhere, that is not the only form of generosity.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. And, I certainly don't think about it in terms of, like, oh, if I give to this person, I'm gonna get back from this person. I see it as a much more global, like, we reap what we sow sort of thing, and it comes usually from somewhere else. And I'm never keeping track, and that's all lovely. It sounds like you Exactly.
Kate Northrup:Operate in the same way, but really thinking about, like, this is a time when if things are slower, I can be pouring in Mhmm. To the system.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. Exactly. And I'm really using this season of my life post exit too. I mean, I've obviously, I knew I was launching a book, so I know that is a is a busy time. But at the same time, I knew, okay.
Brooke Merkevicius:You know, I didn't make 1,000,000 of dollars on this exit by any means. Usually, don't make a ton as a founder because you are giving back to your investors and and all of the different things. But I knew and exit helped my credibility. Yes. It helped me get into other rooms and have more access.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so maybe that wasn't financial access fully to all of those things, but it did give me time to pause, and it gave me time to give back, which were two things that I went into all of this to start into tech to begin with to do. And so completely values aligned. Yep. Exactly.
Kate Northrup:Now you said that the book deal came from another connection
Brooke Merkevicius:Yes.
Kate Northrup:Through another community you were part of, which is so cool. Yeah. Was writing a book something that you always wanted to do, or was it a new dream?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. I've always been to write a book. I've been writing in journals since I was a little kid, so I think my mom is probably not surprised at all that I wrote a book. She was, like, the first one, her and my mother-in-law, to buy, like, a bunch of copies on preorder, which was really sweet. Amazing.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. They they are wonderful supporters of my dreams for sure. But I wasn't sure when that book would get written, especially as you become a mom. Like, time disappears from your ability to do things in some ways, but it also gives you so much more drive to get it done in many ways. And so, I knew that when the opportunity would come into play, I needed to say yes.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so even when I got the book deal, which came because this organization, Dreamers and Doers, had presented that Wiley Publishing was looking for new people to write books, specifically women in business and entrepreneurship. And so I just threw my I shot my shot. I love it. I threw my name in there, and it didn't happen the first time. But after the exit and getting more credibility, they asked me to write this book.
Brooke Merkevicius:And it's the book that needed to happen at the time that it did.
Kate Northrup:One of the frameworks you share in it is the GEMS framework, which was inspired by a software something or other, which I don't understand what it is. So first of all, I keep I keep wanting to ask you, like, what in the freak is Ruby Gems? Yeah. Can you explain what that is? And then I wanna know about how you, you know, took it and made it a framework in your book.
Brooke Merkevicius:So the first programming language I learned was called Ruby on Rails. And Okay. I specifically learned that platform because I heard that other places like Airbnb and fast paced startups had used Ruby on Rails to build quickly Got it. And fast to get their product
Kate Northrup:to market. The same thing as, like, this is this is the lady who literally writes by hand asking to so is that the same thing as, like would it be akin to, like, JavaScript or, like
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. Those are all programming languages.
Kate Northrup:Yes. Yes. Programming languages.
Brooke Merkevicius:JavaScript, HTML, Java, like, there's all and JavaScript is is a programming language too. Okay. So they're all different types of programming. Ruby on Rails. Yes.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so Ruby on Rails has a concept called Ruby Gems, which they're basically prewritten code. So it's already written for you, and you can go, okay. I'm just gonna grab this, and I'm gonna throw it into like, you would say to make it bold on HTML. So there's just like that. You would throw it into the little brackets.
Brooke Merkevicius:A little HTML.
Kate Northrup:You do.
Brooke Merkevicius:So you would throw it into the brackets within the code. Okay. And it would let you do, like, basically, your whole email management through a gym. So it's like plug and play? Plug and play.
Brooke Merkevicius:Okay. And so I wanted something for a framework that could be kind of plug and play into your life and make it easier. So you haven't it's not stuff that you don't understand or you've never been through. It's something that you can harness and go, oh, well, I had this really gritty moment before. I'm gonna pull that and put it into my container because I need more grit in my life today.
Brooke Merkevicius:Okay. So what
Kate Northrup:is your GEMS framework for the future built for by women?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:And for women,
Brooke Merkevicius:but also why. For all. Everybody. Yes.
Kate Northrup:It's a future built by women for everyone. For
Brooke Merkevicius:everyone. Yeah. So it's grit, education, mindset, and support. And I picked those because I felt that those were themes that kept coming up throughout my whole career and life and were really how I was able to continue to navigate all of this. And when anybody asked me, like, how do you do it all?
Brooke Merkevicius:I'm like, well, this is how. It's this is how I'm able to do it. And I don't do it all, but Yeah. This is how.
Kate Northrup:But people do say that.
Brooke Merkevicius:Exactly. So for grit specifically, I felt like I had had a whole bunch of gritty moments before going into writing this book, and that that was a huge strong suit of mine. But, also, it wasn't the only thing that was propelling me. And I think everybody can kind of relate to grit. I think a lot of women don't think they have as much grit, but when you start asking them stories of, like, hardship or things that have come up into their life and how they got through it, I'm like, there's your gritty moment.
Brooke Merkevicius:Like, you have a lot of these, and so we all can relate to that. And then education, it was a huge thing that helped to propel me through different elements of my career. But I really believe in lifelong learning and that we need to continuously be educating ourselves. And it doesn't have to be going back to grad school. It could be reading a book.
Brooke Merkevicius:It could be going and taking a webinar or listening to a podcast. There's so many ways to educate yourself. And then mindset, that was something that I learned probably, like, 10, 12 years ago. I discovered the world of mindset and then eventually, you know, found you and other people. And it was a huge part of what kept me going in being a founder.
Brooke Merkevicius:And I thought that was a really big missing element for a lot of founders too, that they didn't have really strong mindset. And I think that was a huge way that I was able to build the future, and so I needed that to be a part of it. And then support, that was kind of the foundation of of all of it. Having support a supportive spouse, but also a supportive community of other founders, of other business owners that I could lean into, as well as people that support me with my kids, at my house, and all of the different elements. So that was the framework, and I really look at it kind of like as a wellness wheel
Kate Northrup:Mhmm.
Brooke Merkevicius:Where there's all these different spokes. But for me, you're gonna put them in the container. So how much grit is in your life right now? What do you need to lean into? So I encourage women to look at, you know, what is your superpower right now?
Brooke Merkevicius:We have it in every season, we have, like, kind of a different superpower. So for me right now, I think my superpower is really this, like, education teaching. So that element is really full right now. I've educated myself, and now I'm able to go educate others. But in this new era of more visibility, mindset is something that I'm lacking in.
Brooke Merkevicius:So how do I kind of pull in more of those elements? So think about kind of what your superpower is and then how you can bring in these gems to help accommodate that and support that time of your life.
Kate Northrup:Amazing. I know you also signed up for a marathon, and you've been on an incredible wellness journey and have had succeeded at a 100 pound weight loss, which is remarkable. And I'm curious what are any of the parallels between your building Alibi journey and that parallel journey. And were they happening at the same time? Okay.
Kate Northrup:Because that would seem like a lot.
Brooke Merkevicius:That would seem like a lot. Yeah. It's what I learned from what I didn't do as a business owner. I think, you know, when we start out as as building our own business, especially, in the world of of start ups is that we have every intention to have that flexibility for ourselves. But quickly, your time is taken, and especially when you care a lot about the people that are working for you as my team continue to grow, as our business started growing, as we hit you know, we're profitable, all these different things.
Brooke Merkevicius:So much of my time got ticked away. And I let it get ticked away in in many ways too. And so I went back into the martyr era that I had tried so hard to get away from. And I put myself completely last in all of it. And so another reason that an exit was wise at the end of 2022 is that I was having a lot of health problems.
Brooke Merkevicius:I was burnout. I was exhausted. Me and my friend Blessing that summer had a lot of conversations about burnout and what was next and, you know, where we all were. Several of us had or either selling our company or pivoting our company that were kind of in my little circle of founders, at the time. And it's really it's a lot falls on the women, all of the invisible labor, all of that.
Brooke Merkevicius:It was a whole another level and the lack of funding and all of that. And so, honestly, when I did sell my company, there was a lot of relief there too that, like, now, okay, I need to shift my energy back to myself. And so I've spent about over a year now really focused on me. And so now I'm like, it's a different shift because I'm like, I don't wanna give up this time that I have for myself. And so it's a different perspective.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. But I don't think I should really follow that. That you don't have to. I know. I know.
Brooke Merkevicius:You don't. And I love it. And so after this, I'm gonna go run. But but, yeah, I mean, you have to find something, I think, that you want to running was really hard for me at the beginning. And so I looked at it as kind of, like, building the company is really hard.
Brooke Merkevicius:I needed something to be hard for me. That's that
Kate Northrup:grit part of you.
Brooke Merkevicius:The grit part of me. I needed it to be hard. I always thought I was bad at running, and so it was like, you know what? Let me take this on. Like, people told me I couldn't build a tech company.
Brooke Merkevicius:Did that. So let me figure out what would be hard for me. I've written a book already. So, like, what can I do? And so running, it was kind of the thing.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so, yeah, I'm running, the Disney marathon in January on my birthday.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. That's amazing. Why do you think you need things to be hard?
Brooke Merkevicius:I don't think I need everything to be hard
Kate Northrup:in life.
Brooke Merkevicius:I like a lot of I've so I'm a projector. Uh-huh. So I like my space. I like to take rest. So I don't want everything to be hard, but I think I need a project to be hard for myself.
Brooke Merkevicius:Like, to keep you engaged. Engaged. I need that, like, focus, that learning, that and my it's really my gym's framework. In so many ways, I need that. I found support in running friends and community.
Brooke Merkevicius:I've educated myself on running. I've gotten the mindset on running. And then putting in the work is really the grit that you have to keep showing up. So it was my when I wasn't building a company, my time to kinda, like, focus in. And and I do see that some of the best founders out there and best business owners put themselves first.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so if I want to start something again, I knew that this needed to be the shift that I needed to make.
Kate Northrup:So powerful. Yeah. Do you enjoy running now?
Brooke Merkevicius:I do now.
Kate Northrup:You do now?
Brooke Merkevicius:I do now. But I think every runner would say that, like, some days you just really don't wanna run. But Yeah. Most days, I really do enjoy it.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a miracle. I've enjoyed going for a run twice in my life.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. And I used
Brooke Merkevicius:to I mean, I hated it hated it. And, like, even about a year ago actually, a year ago, I ran my first like, it was high I skipped to the 8 k instead of a 5 k because it was just a run-in town. It's called the running of the Bulls because I live in Bull City, which is Durham. And so everybody has cowbells as you're running through Durham. It's really fun.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so I'm running that one again. And I'm, like, 20 minutes faster than I was last year, which is just Amazing. Consistency. Right. So it's all just up.
Brooke Merkevicius:It's just showing up.
Kate Northrup:And then January will be your first marathon. Yep. That's amazing. Yeah. I'm so impressed.
Brooke Merkevicius:And I told my husband, oh, I really wanna run the Disney marathon. I just randomly asked him, do you want to run it too? And he was like, well, I mean, yeah. I guess if you get in, I'll I'll do it. And I was like, are you sure?
Brooke Merkevicius:Because I'm signing up and you can't back out. So now he's committed to a marathon. I'm not sure. Sure he was ready for it, but he needs to spend more time focused on himself. And so this was my, like, little push to make him do that.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Are you doing any of the training together or always separate?
Brooke Merkevicius:I think we'll end up doing some together, especially long runs, which will be really good because long runs can get kind of boring without somebody else. So I could imagine. We'll see how he he's running this 8 k with me in 2 weeks, so we'll see how it goes.
Kate Northrup:So I know your supportive partner has been an incredibly important part of your journey, and there is such a significant care gap. There's such a significant, you know, the the whole movement fair play and the book and the documentary and, you know, the whole account, and really seeing the inequity in terms of where the labor falls, who is holding the mental load, who's holding the emotional load. Was that something in your own family that needed to be renegotiated at all as you were growing Alibi, or did you just have it kinda, like, dialed in with your agreements already?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. Definitely. It needed to to make a shift right in the midst of the pandemic. Right. So me and my husband, Edgar, have had a great supportive relationship, honestly, since the beginning.
Brooke Merkevicius:He is my second marriage, so I had a horrible first marriage. And so I think I was just was luckily blessed with a really great second one. And I learned a lot about myself through that too. And so I think that we had a really good base, so I'll say that first and foremost. But as the world shut down and we had our kids home and I was in the midst of literally we had just raised our first funding in the in 2020.
Brooke Merkevicius:And so we were in massive scale mode, and so I didn't have the opportunity to pause at that moment. And so we really needed to lean in, and that's actually right when Fair Play was kind of coming out. And so, actually, Eve, who wrote Fair Play, interviewed me and my husband, and we almost were in the documentary, but then we couldn't get out to California for recording stuff. But it really impacted us because we realized how much more we needed to lean into each other to make it all work for both of our dreams. And, so we wouldn't stay in too much of the martyr mode.
Brooke Merkevicius:We're both martyr people, so it was really hard to kind of navigate that as a couple. But one thing that works for us is really actually finding what her second book is about is Unicorn Space and taking that devoted time, each one of us, for our passion. So my husband fell into, like, a spiritual yoga mindset journey, and I fell back into loving writing again and taking that time. And so by taking those creative pursuits, we claimed that time together, and then everything started to fall back into place to make it a lot better. So it was huge for us and helped
Kate Northrup:us a lot. That's really great. That concept is new to me, unicorn time. I haven't really been following along. So
Brooke Merkevicius:But you've been doing it in so many ways. Well, yeah. It's just
Kate Northrup:it's cool though that because I think that it would be my initial thought about creating equity in the home around emotional labor, invisible labor would be, like, the logistics of it. So who's doing the laundry? Who's taking out the trash? Who's buying the birthday presents? Who's, like, planning the holidays?
Kate Northrup:You know, like that. And I love this is a perfect example of, like, the solutions that we seek are often not on the spectrum of thinking, where we're thinking, that actually the solution isn't it yes. Sure. You do need to figure out who's taking out the trash and, like, doing the laundry. But that, like, actually, the solution is committing to creative time for yourself.
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:I love it so much. Yeah. So I'm definitely gonna go
Brooke Merkevicius:Well, and I think, like and Eve, I think, saw this through her work too is, like, once her and her husband had kind of mastered the the logistics, which I'm sure, like, you know, you and Mike and me and Edgar too, like, we kind of had gotten to that point, but there was still something that wasn't quite there. And as soon as we were able to have that time for ourselves and we as soon as those start to disappear in any way, we can tell very quickly that, like, oh, I'm not taking that time for myself. I'm not, you know, committed to that. And so once you have that, like, committed unicorn space so for me right now, it's, like, writing, but also running is quite a bit of that element too. And I think because I already gained I don't think you should make that just, like, working out.
Brooke Merkevicius:It shouldn't just be your unicorn space. But for me, it gives me that mindset and creativity and time. So it's a lot like, you know, Julia Cameron's, writer's date or artist's time. And so Yeah. Just finding that time to do those things are so important and vital.
Kate Northrup:So you've been on book tour. It's been you know, this is pretty recently out Yeah. And you've been very life is full with that. But I am curious. Are you already and you don't have to give me any details, of course, but are you already thinking about new problems that you would like to solve with possible future endeavors?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. So I have a notes app on my phone that has all of my parking lot ideas forever. I love it. And Aloebee was the idea that stuck, as my husband says, in so many ways, and it was. And so I don't think I have an idea that has stuck yet.
Brooke Merkevicius:I've really enjoyed helping other people with their ideas right now, so that's been fun to, like, help support people in that early idea phase. And I hope the book also helps with that in many ways. But, I think that you try to run from the areas. Like, for me, I was in the future of workspace for so many years and loved it. But, also, like, as the acquisition happened, I was like, I need to run away from this.
Brooke Merkevicius:I'm tired of being in this space. But something always pulls you back to things that you really know and are good at. And so I definitely feel pulled in that direction in some capacity, but it's changed. The space has changed. I think that more talk is happening about care and the care gaps and how I was I knew this and was trying to build with that in mind, but I there's a lot of really cool things that are on the horizon.
Brooke Merkevicius:But I really believe that, you know, you have to be open to the universe's timing in many ways. So I told myself not to jump. I will jump on things and move fast. And so I told myself I needed 6 months, after this book came out to really make a decision about what was next. And so I'm open and excited, but spending a lot of time educating myself on the new trends and things that are happening with technology, but also, in the spaces that I'm interested in.
Brooke Merkevicius:So we'll see. To be determined. TBD.
Kate Northrup:Yes. I love that you're giving yourself a chunk of time, a solid chunk. Do you think, based on your experience, having both bootstrapped and taken on investor capital, do you would you do it again? Would you take on investors again?
Brooke Merkevicius:Yeah. No.
Kate Northrup:Thank you for your honesty.
Brooke Merkevicius:No. And and at first, I I dabbled with it. You know, my husband's been like, oh, we should build a company together. And, like, he would get funding by, like, going to one meeting because he's, like, you know, a vet, a man, a European, and he's worked at all the major tech companies, and he's in security. So it's like Okay.
Brooke Merkevicius:We would get funded in 2 seconds. So it's appealing, you know, in some ways. But I'm like, but, no. The reason he wants to build a company or I wanna build a company is the flexibility and for us to own it. And so I'm like, I won't we can bootstrap it and sell it fast.
Brooke Merkevicius:That's fine with me. But, no, I won't I won't take it on. I think that for me personally, it's not the right decision. And I think a lot of women hear that it's appealing because you get money to build your dream, but they really need to think about what they're getting themselves into. And if you really believe in what you're building and it is mission driven and focused in values and the way they something that you really wanna see come to fruition, I suggest not taking funding.
Brooke Merkevicius:But if it's something that, you know, is not that in some capacity, I think it can be great. So it just depends on what your end result looks like for you. It's very personal, I think.
Kate Northrup:So wise. Yeah. So wise. So if people wanna connect and learn more, obviously, they need to get themselves a copy of The Future Built by Women. I just wanna say that what I love about this book is how tactical it is.
Kate Northrup:So for those listening, there's sections that literally take you step by step how to build your minimum viable product, your MVP, how to vet an idea, how to like, I don't think that I have ever read a book that is so practical in terms of the how to of the building stage. So if you've got an idea and you get this book, honestly, certainly if it's a tech idea, but it's highly applicable Yeah. Even if you were building, like, a wooden bowl company.
Brooke Merkevicius:Right. Which we all
Kate Northrup:have tech elements, by the way.
Brooke Merkevicius:We're all using tech. Every women use technology more actually than men do on a regular basis.
Kate Northrup:Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So you don't have to think of yourself as a tech person, which I do not in order for this book to be highly valuable. So get the book.
Kate Northrup:And then where else should they connect and come find you?
Brooke Merkevicius:So you can find me at my first name, last name.com. So brookemarkevicius.com. That's where kind of everything lives. And then the book also has a resource guide, which is really great. So that is at the future built by women.com.
Brooke Merkevicius:Okay. And it really is kind of a mini course based off of the book. So I'm always adding resources and things that are changing with technology that I talk about in the book. So you kinda get a free little course if
Kate Northrup:you buy the book. That's incredible. Yeah. Thank you for your generosity. Of course.
Kate Northrup:So phenomenal. Thanks for being here.
Brooke Merkevicius:Thank you, Kate.
Kate Northrup:Thanks for listening to this episode of Plenty. If you enjoyed it, make sure you subscribe, leave a rating, leave a review. That's one of the best ways that you can ensure to spread the abundance of plenty with others. You can even text it to a friend and tell them to listen in. And if you want even more support to expand your abundance, head over to katenorthrup.comforward/breakthroughs, where you can grab my free money breakthrough guide that details the biggest money breakthroughs from some of the top earning women I know, plus a mini lesson accompanying it with my own biggest money breakthroughs and a nervous system healing tool for you to expand your abundance.
Kate Northrup:Again, that's over at katenorthrop.comforward/breakthroughs. See you next time.