Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The HotelTechInsider podcast interviews the top leaders at the convergence of hotels, travel and technology. Guests include founders, executives, top hoteliers and industry organization leadership. Find all of the episodes at hoteltechreport.com
There's so many properties of that size in great locations, old operating models with 24 staffing, who at some stage, when they need to refurb, that model doesn't work anymore. At latest then, they need to be able to innovate and change and adapt their model. The earlier they do it, the more you are benefiting from it.
Speaker 2:From Hotel Tech Report, it's Hotel Tech Insider, a show about the future of hotels and the technology that powers them.
Speaker 3:Today, we're speaking with Julius Ambers, the Head of Operations at Numa. Numa operates 160 tech forward hotels across Europe, and none of their properties have traditional staffed front desks. In this episode, we talk through Numa's tech stack, how their multi lingual operations team works together through a purpose built app, and how they use AI to make better decisions. Let's dive in. Thanks so much for joining the podcast.
Speaker 3:To get started and kick things off, I would love for you to introduce yourself. Tell us a bit about your role and your company.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me. I'm Julius, talent manager and task for Loomar. We are an operator, very digitalized, using quite a lot of automation and AI in our day to days. Five and a half years old now, founded in summer twenty nineteen, focused Central Europe out of Berlin in Germany, and I've been part of the journey for the last five and a half years heading the operations. My background is in traditional hospitality, so I graduated from Caesar Ritz University Switzerland and Cornell University in The US, and have had a fair share of experience across Europe.
Speaker 1:Stint management trainee with Mandarin Rental in Asia, Malaysia, been the luxury high end, high touch end, as well as done quite a few openings in London, where you have high net worth individuals, high demands, very dynamic market during the Olympics twenty twelve. Great experiences there. And then ventured a bit off into the boutique hotel, lifestyle, hospitality, where it's about building a platform which produces personalization really, but streamlines the process in the background and looks at how guest experience can be elevated by the physical product design, right, and atmosphere. And then NUMA, or back in the days, COSI, rang, and we started speaking, and I joined him around founding stage, or just after founding stage, as the operations director to lead the operations, and hence, being part of this journey from the first building to now. I think we have roughly 160 old buildings live.
Speaker 3:So tell me a bit about Pneuma. How many properties do you operate and what would you say makes Pneuma different than competitors in the space?
Speaker 1:So Pneuma, we operate 160 properties roughly right now, changing on a daily basis as we are trying to have a growth journey right now, which equals to around about 10,000 units or hotel rooms. We have a big focus on the apartment market, meaning not all properties but across the portfolio around 75 to 80% of our units have a kitchenette or some form of kitchen. So we cater to that slightly longer length of stay, which helps us from a cost efficiency perspective, as well as giving our real estate partners a bit of the protection for residential products, right? We are mainly in key cities where there's residential compression in the market. So we're able to have that base covered or have a bit of longer length of stay, have a more consistent cash flow, and then we're able to yield on top with the short stay, which makes it quite attractive from a business case perspective.
Speaker 1:Yes. And what makes us unique? We started off with the idea of of building a hospitality brand for the twenty first century with the tools of the twenty first century. Right? And those tools are majorly digitalization, right, in the broader scheme.
Speaker 1:And we really went out there having a wide canvas, and that's also one of the reasons I joined Noomar. I'll still remember a conversation with our CTO, Gerhard Maringa, and co founder, who basically said, how do we decide on what technology do we want to use? And I was like, so many options out there. He was like, really simple. We look at the problem, we look what's in the market, and we think we can bid it better or cheaper in house, we'll do it ourselves.
Speaker 1:And that was such a pragmatic approach towards technology and designing your tech stack. This white canvas approach I really liked, and this is how we tackle every problem we had. So therefore, our operation has very little legacy in terms of traditional sense or the traditional tel industry sees legacy. So we really build a tech stack fit for the future, very API first driven, so all about connectivity, using data points, having a good sample database, Using data in every decision making process, I think that's one of the major differences in our day to day. And then obviously, nowadays using AI to help dealing with that data from sentiment analysis, through executive summaries, through trend analysis in region patterns, all those things.
Speaker 1:I think it's, yeah, quite helpful. So I think that's the major difference. And due to the technology, we can save around 60% of our operational payroll costs, which in comparison to a traditional three star hotel, which is a huge advantage and gives out that firing power to be aggressive on the growth side, to have a really solid balance sheet, to invest into technology and people. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, there's so much to unpack there. I first want to ask you mentioned the founder approach technology with the mindset of should we build it or buy it? And how did that shape your current tech stack? Do you have a lot of features that are built in house, or did you end up buying most of the systems you use?
Speaker 1:I would say it's probably sixty forty. So 60 built, 40 bought. Right? Very difficult to say of where does your operational tech stack start and where does it finish. So I think we have a PMS, which is bought off the shelf.
Speaker 1:Right? So we work with Apaleo here, who have a very API first platform, which helps you really from using that as your foundational base or core piece, and you can then build around and our Apaleo function doesn't look at all anymore like the Apaleo which comes off the shelf. Right? So our tech team has a great done a great job at tailor making it, adapting it to our use case. That's, I think, one key operational element which is bought.
Speaker 1:And then we have decided to build what is the core for our day to day operation ourselves, or a operational app. We call it Chine. It's basically started as a housekeeping app to be able to communicate to the cleaners which rooms are vacant and to be cleaned and which not. And by now it is an app in I think 17 languages, which can track maintenance tasks, cleaning tasks, has forecasting function in there, has ability to track cleaning scores per cleaner per room category to look at trends. In the back end, you see the data, can see measured productivity, all those things.
Speaker 1:And really, it's a backbone, it's a communication tool for our day to day operation.
Speaker 3:Can you talk me through the process of an idea to a feature that's in the wild? So if someone on the ground has an idea for something that needs to be built, How do you think through whether to search for a vendor that has already created that or building it in house?
Speaker 1:I think by now we are at a stage it's about fine tuning, right? It's not anymore about reinventing the wheel. So this is why Canvas has already a lot of color on it right now. And it's about squeezing the last percentages of efficiency out there and staying up to date with market trends. And especially with AI now, I think there's massive leaps on how to go the next step in that development.
Speaker 1:So if there's an idea, what we usually do I mean, usually before an idea, there's a problem. Right? And the problem is either it's staffing costs and efficiency, time, it's guest satisfaction, right, or it's a financial drive where we say we can uplift, right, either revenues or cost, reduced cost. So that's the basis. And then we look at how can we tackle this?
Speaker 1:How can we optimize it? So we're doing a lot of those why are we doing things questions. Right? So quite often, we look at our all our invoices, and we challenge each individual invoice line. Is there a way of changing this?
Speaker 1:Right? Is there a way of optimizing this? And then we're asking those questions and deliberately asking those questions, not from people who have always worked with those partners in that way, I think is a massive advantage Numener has of having a lot of people who have no traditional hospitality background in key decisions. So they look at certain processes and certain mechanisms from a different angle. I think that helps challenging.
Speaker 1:So having a wide portfolio of knowledge and experience, I think is that's initiated that drive to change, right? And then what we have is, I actually like that, call it product ambassadors. So across the board in the operations team, we have high potential individuals in all the different roles from senior management to really frontline employees who devote a certain time of their week to a Slack channel called product optimization, right, at the end. And so ideas are just dumped in there, right? And then they talk about it.
Speaker 1:And this is basically where our product manager then gets his inspiration from, where he has live feedback to what's happening day to day on the ground, where he can beta test ideas, where rollout plans can be discussed, where exhaust it's it's like an audience which helps who is doing the job on a day to day basis, and it helps co create the product they work with afterwards. So it's not something which comes off the shelf and it's not adapted. Right? So I think the language piece, as an example, shows you with whatever we develop, we always look at how is it implemented and how is it adapted in day to day. And this helps us, or we're able to do that with having this product ambassador group.
Speaker 1:And then the idea at the end gets written down and conceptualized and professionalized and planned. And then we, the product manager, well as some operations senior management, really look at, okay, what's the efficiency gain of this? Or what's the impact on the P and L? And then you can do an ROI calculation on it. And then there's a very strict prioritization.
Speaker 1:Because I think there's so much potential on digitalizing, optimizing processes that we are sometimes overwhelmed of where to start. So prioritization is key there to really look at what delivers an impact in the short run, in the long run, and where do we want to focus now, right, from a strategic perspective. And then it gets on the roadmap, and then the tech team is rolling it out. And then usually, quarter to four months later, you're gonna hear, there it is. We're gonna go live.
Speaker 1:And then the training team gets involved to write the the roundup plan, the training plan, and then we go left. Then we monitor if the synergies are there as expected. There's always going be some fine tuning so on needed, but it's a living organism. And I think we have a mindset at Pneuma which supports this imperfection because there is always a certain imperfection until something is professionalized. You will not have the perfect solution off the shelf and the same speed as we are growing.
Speaker 3:Can you talk me through the different tech touch points that a guest would experience during their stay?
Speaker 1:We're starting with booking. Right? That starts where the expectation management starts, where the tech journey starts, really. So preferably on our website, numastays.com, right, where they can then book, go through the booking process, pay for their stay, register, and then ideally, in that moment, they're already prompted to upload their ID to fill in the registration cards because then it's all done. Right?
Speaker 1:They get the booking confirmation. If they haven't filled in the ID, then they get a reminder notification, a few weeks out, a few days out, etcetera. Right? And at the end, they get the evening before their check-in, they get the WhatsApp or push notification if they have downloaded our app already with all the key information. And then then they itself, they gotta get a room number.
Speaker 1:They're gonna get their personal PIN codes to use their room, and from what time it is available, and where it is located, directions, all the opportunities, recommendations, or what's happening in the local market, etc. And on checkout, they basically can scan a QR code on the door when they leave, leave reviews and check out, which we need in order for our housekeeping team to know the room is empty, because only once they know the room is empty, it shows in the app as a room to be cleaned. So you avoid that housekeeper running around the corridors at 8AM in the morning, waking up all the guests. Right? Because they only know which room is dirty or to be cleaned once the guests check out.
Speaker 1:So we have that element, or they can just confirm it in the app that they departed or via a WhatsApp reminder, which they confirm. So there's several options here.
Speaker 3:I wanted to double click into your real estate partnerships. I'm guessing that Pneuma is a management company and then there's a different party that owns.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We don't own any real estate. We rent either on fixed leases, hybrid leases, or pure management deals. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Do the ownership groups have much interaction with the Pneuma team day to day?
Speaker 1:Depending a bit on the contractual situation, there are reporting obligations, right, from annual statements through monthly statements, and then from pure high level financial reporting through really granular operational and qualitative reporting, depending a bit on who bears the risk in the contract relationship. So yeah, there is a communication. Yes, definitely. At the end, such a hospitality asset has a value and any investor or real estate owner wants to make sure that we are taking care of their value, right, of the assets. And therefore there is a communication that we have more and more real estate partners who we have multiple properties with, which is also I think positive testament to our ability to deliver on rents and on strong balance sheets as well as on the final product.
Speaker 3:Switching gears a little bit. So drawing on your experience at Numa and with the hotel companies you worked on before, I'm curious what you think are one or two of the most important skills for a hotelier to be successful today.
Speaker 1:I think one thing is, especially the technology side, but in general, the world is moving that fast. Anybody who's not willing to adapt to change is going be outpaced immediately. So willingness and ability to adapt to change and to implement technology, to implement new ways of operating, of thinking, I think, is key, right? Start thinking about how guests are now married to their mobile phones in their day to day life, how digitalization and automation is just lifting so many synergy effects, and also see that as an opportunity in an ever more difficult workforce market, right? I think.
Speaker 1:So this willingness to change, to adapt that flexibility in the mind, I think is one of the key elements you need in order to be successful nowadays. The technology is there, right? It's all plug and play. It's APIs. It's not heavy sank costs.
Speaker 1:It's not massive lead times. You can switch it on. If it doesn't work, you can switch it off. Right? It doesn't change anything.
Speaker 1:So I think that is one element. And the second element is more around the daring to be willing to take risk. And links a bit to the first one, seeing it and doing it is two things, right? And seeing the opportunity being flexible is one, but actually implementing and doing it and being surprised. And don't think a process to the end.
Speaker 1:Right? If you're 80% there, just start the other 20, you're figure out on the way. I think that helps you implement change and stay dynamic. And otherwise, the market is shifting so rapidly right now, the hospitality market, looking at real estate prices, looking at labor shortage, looking at consumer or guest needs and desires and patterns, that that flexibility is needed in order to be successful in the long run. As an example, I've done a simple base calculation.
Speaker 1:If you pay market relevant rents for a three star hotel in a downtown city in Europe with a 20 fourseven reception coverage and you have like less than 60 five-seventy units, you can't be operationally profitable anymore. But there's so many properties of that size, sixty, seventy units in great locations, old operating models with 24 staffing, who at some stage, when they need to refurb, that model doesn't work anymore. In later stand, they need to be able to innovate and change and adapt their model. And the earlier they do it, the more you are benefiting from it.
Speaker 3:Last question, kind of on the same topic. What is one thing that you believe about hotel technology that your peers or other people in the industry might disagree with?
Speaker 1:The biggest one is that you can deliver a great personalized service without having physical map along the ground, I think. We have several properties where we have booking.com scores in the high 9s, 9.5, 9.6, which are proving that. If the asset is there, if the processes are there, if it's well controlled, if you have a good management team on the ground, etc, you can do that. That's one element. And the other element, I think, don't estimate the change in consumer behavior and expectations.
Speaker 1:More and more people don't want a queue at reception, and they don't need a golden faucet in the bathrooms, and they don't need, I don't know, three different cold cut meats on the breakfast buffet, right? Like, it's outdated. And people want to go travel somewhere, spend a bit of work, spend a bit of leisure, that's spending more and more, and so are the needs around it, right? So they need the working space in their room, they need the ability to pop in for a great coffee, maybe in the coffee shop next door. They don't need it all in one property and so on.
Speaker 1:So this is so changing. And I think realizing that and being willing to accept that is probably the biggest difference between us and more traditional players. Not saying that traditional players don't have a relevance in the market. Right? I think that's really important.
Speaker 1:There is a market and me privately. If I travel for convenience, Numero is great. Right? Because I go somewhere, I come in, out. It's efficient.
Speaker 1:I can change the in the billing address to whatever I need in order to handle my travel expenses. I can go for the local coffee shop to have a coffee. Very easy. If I travel leisure and wanna relax and have a leisure holiday, I don't mind reception, but I want a spa. I want the full service.
Speaker 1:Right? It's a different travel occasion, and I think there's a product for both. But that personalized luxury will be costly in future. Right? And I think that's where it's gonna be the division.
Speaker 3:What a great conversation. Thank you so much for sharing all your insights, all your experience at Nuva. I'm especially interested to know about your big tech team and your prioritization framework. And it sounds like a very cool kind of mix between a tech and a hotel company.
Speaker 1:It is, it is. You really see if we talk internally and you have more traditional hospitality players coming in, I think the first two, three months it almost overwhelmed. Because it feels more like a tech company in certain parts of the organisation, yeah. But in others then, at the end, it's bumps into bats. It's a bread and butter business of hospitality.
Speaker 1:Merging those two worlds of a very emotional centered product and efficient tech organization is, I think that that's what makes Mingos so interesting to work
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. Well, it sounds like it's working out really well for you with all the growth.
Speaker 1:I think we are on the right track here. Definitely.
Speaker 3:Well, thanks so much, Julius. So great chatting with you. Wish you all the best and hope to see more Pneuma properties on the map in the future.
Speaker 1:The pleasure was all my weekend. Thanks a lot. And, yeah, all the best.
Speaker 2:That's all for today's episode. Thanks for listening to Hotel Tech Insider produced by hoteltechreport.com. Our goal with this podcast is to show you how the best in the business are leveraging technology to grow their properties and outperform the concept by using innovative digital tools and strategies. I encourage all of our listeners to go try at least one of these strategies or tools that you learned from today's episode. Successful digital transformation is all about consistent small experiments over a long period of time, so don't wait until tomorrow to try something new.
Speaker 2:Do you know a hotelier who would be great to feature on this show, or do you think that your story would bring a lot of value to our audience? Reach out to me directly on LinkedIn by searching for Jordan Hollander. For more episodes like this, follow Hotel Tech Insider on all major streaming platforms like Spotify and Apple Music.