Justin Cotler | The Coaches of the 2024 CrossFit Games

We catch up with our dear friend Justin Cotler as he prepares to take 2 athletes with podium asperations to the 2024 CrossFit Games.  Plus what is it like being part-time media star and is there any ever a fear of backlash from what he may say.

What is Clydesdale Media Podcast?

We cover the sport of CrossFit from all angles. We talk with athletes, coaches and celebrities that compete and surround in the sport of CrossFit at all levels. We also bring you Breaking News, Human Interest Stories and report on the Methodology of CrossFit. We also use the methodology to make ourselves the fittest we can be.

Hey, hey, still.

Let's go.

I was born a killer.

I was meant to win.

I am down and willing,

so I will find a way.

It took a minute,

now it didn't happen right away.

When it get hot in the kitchen,

you decide to stay.

That's how it winners me.

Stick a fork in

what's going on everybody

welcome to the Clydesdale

media podcast my name is

Scott Switzer I'm the

Clydesdale that man beside

me is none other than

coaching legend Justin

Collar what's going on how

are you bud I'm good so

it's funny when I do these

things I uh I I run

interviews through my head

Almost like when I was a swimmer,

I would run through a race

in my head before I did it.

So whenever I do an interview,

I'm running things through my head.

Last night,

I'm watching America's Got Talent.

Okay.

At the end of the show,

a little nine-year-old girl came on,

and she said that her

influences were Aretha Franklin,

Whitney Houston, and Tina Turner.

Wow.

Nine years old.

Oh, my gosh.

Does she know Justin Kotler?

She's got cool parents, apparently.

That's awesome.

If you have not seen this girl perform,

she was the last performer of the night.

Really?

She did Tina Turner almost

as good as Tina.

Okay.

At nine years old.

We'll have to watch it.

It was freaky.

That's awesome.

What blew me away is,

unless you have cool parents,

how does a nine-year-old

know Tina Turner?

yeah you'd have to think

that that's the parental

influence and that's great

I mean you know I i think I

think that I mean for me

and my kids like it's funny

they just have a vast

repertoire of things

they're listening to in the

car you know and it's cool

because my you know both of

them actually will be like

hey you know what are some

of your favorite songs and

then I'll play them and

It's pretty cool.

It's always fun, too,

when my daughter wants to listen to me,

which is kind of cool.

She'll be like, is that really you?

Like, yeah, it is.

I love having music

conversations with you.

And to me,

Tina Turner is one of the most

underrated.

100%.

In the 80s, when I was growing up,

she was the shit.

Yeah.

yeah well it's crazy people

don't you know they most

people know her especially

now right like specifically

from the 80s but obviously

I can tina from years ago I

mean she was absolutely

incredible you know and

then we all know what

happened there and in years

of abuse etc but I mean the

music was amazing and and

then she completely changed

her vibe and you know kind

of kind of went more pop

rock and roll and was

amazing at that too you

know yeah she was a hell of an artist

She was still one of my

favorites to this day and

sad that she's gone now, but man,

nobody came in at a stage like that.

Yeah, no, she was amazing.

Later in life,

she was still amazing and

incredible physique.

And yeah, it's awesome.

Yeah, amazing.

Well,

we'll let music take us a sidetrack

here for a little bit and

get into some CrossFit stuff.

Cool.

Coach Sir Moose.

Justin was so gracious when

my wife and I introduced

ourselves to him outside

our hotel after the 2022

MAAC semifinal in Knoxville.

Still have the photo.

Cool.

That's how Justin is, man.

I try.

He is.

Yeah.

I think sometimes you get

mislabeled as this like

madman because of the way

you cheer on the sidelines,

how emotional you get when

your athletes are on the floor.

Yeah.

but like if people need to

know you away from that

three minutes of that event

or that 10 minutes of that event,

that is not you at all.

No, no.

Yeah.

I think the, just,

I think it's fun for the,

I think it's fun.

Right.

But content wise and people catch me,

you know,

I'm passionate and I'm intense

in that moment, obviously.

And, you know,

I kind of wear my emotions

on my sleeve and,

So I think that's what people see.

I'm generally not like that.

You know,

I'm actually pretty mild mannered

and mild tempered, like on a daily basis.

But I do get fired up, obviously,

about things I'm passionate about.

And, you know, obviously,

when I'm cheering for my crew, you know,

or coaching, et cetera,

I can get fired up.

Obviously, there was that.

I had no idea that anyone was videoing it,

but from quarterfinals

where Alex was jumping,

doing burpee box jump overs

and they caught me at the

end of that workout.

And it's really funny too,

because we just didn't even

know what good times were at that time.

And her time ended up being good,

but it wasn't like...

incredible right and and uh

but but in the in our gym

it was she was just like

smashed everyone and I just

like I just thought it was

this phenomenal time and

and also it's just like

traditionally not a workout

that I would necessarily

say would be phenomenal for

her so like you know she

crushed it and I and then

of course like next thing

you know that that went

viral and everyone's like

this guy's crazy it's like

I'm not normally like but

yeah you know it's okay

What I hate about

quarterfinals is generally

quarterfinals are programmed very well.

Because it has to be.

When you're threading from a

large 25% now to 40

athletes per region...

you you it better be

balanced it better be

well-rounded and to get the

people there I thought they

it had some of the coolest

events this year and we

never get to see it because

it's online yeah I know and

it also is frustrating to

me that that there should

be no stage of the season

that athletes don't get

paid uh and the fact that

that there's no prize purse

for quarterfinals

is ridiculous.

I mean, it just,

it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

You're,

you're having them do perhaps the

most important stage of,

of the year where you're,

you're cutting this massive

field down and,

and there's no prize purse.

I mean, that's just, you know, I could go.

We're going to get into a

little bit of the season

structure and some of that

stuff later in this show.

Yeah.

But I,

I would be irresponsible if I didn't

bring this up.

Yeah, of course.

You are a magnet for stuff

happening a month out of the games.

Yeah, it just seems to be that way, huh?

I know.

It's crazy.

Your right-hand man,

the head of programming, Kiefer,

and I can never get his last name, Lamy?

It's Lamy.

Lamy?

Lamy.

Like lamb?

Yeah, Lamy.

So Kiefer Lamy took a job

with Proven and left you a week ago,

two weeks ago now?

And then- Yeah, actually, I mean,

I knew about it.

I found out about it maybe

five days after the North America East.

Yeah, that's when he told me.

So I've known for a little bit.

The Proven announcement was

a few weeks after.

Okay.

Yeah.

But yeah,

I've known now it's been probably,

it's been a month, I would say.

Yeah.

So when you get news like that,

and I've seen you at semifinals,

so correct me if anything

like this has changed.

Yeah, sure.

You tag team those things, right?

You have athletes, like hypothetically,

not even hypothetically,

you have Ricky and you have Alex.

You're going to go to the games.

Yeah.

Ricky may be on the floor as

Alex needs warmed up or vice versa,

right?

And so it almost takes two

coaches to do that.

Yeah, in the last couple of years,

we've had more than two coaches,

you know.

And I think things have evolved.

I think, you know,

when things obviously when

we first started and I was coaching,

you know,

pretty much all the games

athletes and then Kiefer

would assist and help where he needed to.

And then obviously as he's

evolved as a coach and

taking more

responsibilities and started

coaching games athletes, you know,

you know, there was less of the, of,

I would say of kind of the

collaboration at events

because we were responsible

for our own athletes.

Um, you know, and, and obviously, you know,

when that happens,

then we're looking to say

like Brendan or Casey or

someone else to help with

those other things or in Ricky's case,

Benny, right.

Cause, and, and,

and Benny is an underdogs coach as well.

Uh,

So more recently,

like at the games last year,

Kiefer had Bailey.

And then at Rogue,

I had Alex and Ricky and he had Bailey.

And then obviously at semifinals this year,

he had Kyra and he had the team.

There was one of the teams

that he was coaching.

And then he also had Kendall,

who was a teen ager that

had made the semis.

And then I had Alex and then

the other team.

So we kind of split responsibilities.

But I would say that more recently,

just because of the amount of athletes,

the number of athletes that we have,

we were more responsible

specifically for those athletes.

In the past, absolutely,

there was a ton of collaboration.

But as he kind of started

coaching more and more elite athletes,

there was less of that

collaboration during competition.

And it was more kind of exclusive.

We were exclusive to our athletes.

So when something like this happens,

how quickly do you have to

act and find his replacement?

And was Casey the immediate choice?

Yeah, Casey was the immediate choice.

I mean, that was without question,

you know, that Casey, first of all,

I mean, aside from, you know,

everybody knows him is, I mean,

he's one of the best

CrossFit athletes in the world, you know,

obviously is a three time games champion.

And, you know,

he's won a ton of other competitions,

massive competitions, big competitions.

But just a phenomenal coach,

great human being.

He's one of the coaches

who's been with us the longest.

Like when I started to bring

on remote coaches,

he was one of the first

guys that I interviewed and

just so impressed with him

and his vast knowledge of

programming and sport in general.

And then obviously his

competitive experience

in the sport, you know, is, is, is pretty,

you know, unrivaled and, and then, uh,

you know, he's just a,

he's just a good dude.

Um, so it was kind of a no brainer.

Uh, it was a,

it was a natural progression.

Um,

And, uh, you know,

he's been helping out with, with, uh,

you know, some of the,

I would say some of the programming, um,

you know,

that we've been doing and also

kind of came up with some

like testing blocks and things like that.

So, you know, he,

he's great at what he does.

And, and honestly, like,

I think that part of it

will be a very seamless transition.

Um,

So yeah, when I was told,

that was pretty much the

next call that I made right

away was just to make sure,

because we want to make

sure that we're serving our

community the way that they

deserve to be.

And I think it's been a

seamless transition.

I don't think unless there was,

aside from the announcement,

I don't think anyone would know.

And the truth is, this is for us now.

It's a great time to reset

and just create even more

continuity in the online

programming and just

tighten the ship a little bit, I think.

It's always when these

things tend to happen,

that's what you do.

You kind of look within and

just make sure that you're

doing the best that you can.

for your people and then

obviously for your

community uh because we you

know we have a wide-ranging

community of of athletes

and um you know coaches all

over the world so you know

it's it's important that uh

that we make sure everybody

is is uh thriving yeah

casey's I mean one of the

best dudes I've ever met in

my life like yeah he's just

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't aces, I guess is the best record.

Yeah.

It's just as solid as, as you know,

what you see is what you get.

He's just an awesome dude.

So.

It's great to have consistency,

but it's also great to get

fresh eyes on something.

And so how has that helped

the program having Casey

come in and kind of get

some fresh eyes on things?

And the follow-up to that is,

is he staying in Illinois

or is he going to dabble in

Vegas a little bit?

Yeah.

So I think what it does

really is it's just –

it's been good for us as a group, you know,

because it's essentially been like, okay,

you know, myself, Casey, Colette, Brandon,

like, you know, the crew, you know, just,

you know,

really communicating a ton and being like,

okay,

this is what we want to make sure

happens.

And this is what we want to

make sure we're providing.

So I think in general,

it's just really good.

Like I said,

it's almost like it kind of

lights a little fire under

your ass just to make sure

that things are running

properly and that you're

providing what you need to

the best product possible.

Um, and as far as, you know,

we haven't really touched on that.

I mean,

obviously a lot's been going on and

the games is coming up, et cetera.

Um, so, you know,

Casey generally gets out

here a couple of times a year, uh,

you know, in the past, but, uh, you know,

that might change and we might,

but he's got a family too, you know,

so that's, that's a little bit different.

It's always a little bit

different when you add kids in the mix,

you know?

So he's got a family and

ultimately like whatever is

best for him is ultimately

what I want to do.

But it's interesting.

It really –

you know,

I feel like I have had the

experience now over the

last several years since we

started underdogs, you know,

where we went from small

camp to big camp back to

now kind of smaller camp.

And so I've been able to kind of, you know,

experience everything.

And, and I have a pretty good idea of,

of exactly what I want.

Um, you know, and, and obviously, um,

You know,

this situation was a surprise and,

you know, I mean, but it is what it is.

And now you've got to, you know,

you got to move forward.

You got to put your big boy

pants on and make sure that

everybody is getting what they need.

And obviously,

like our goal is to continue to grow,

right?

the brand and continue to,

but I'd say for our in-house crew, um,

you know, I, I,

I think we'll probably

tighten things up and, and, you know,

it'll be a,

a bit more exclusive in-house.

Um, just, you know, I just, I've, I've,

I've had it both ways in-house, you know,

and, and I, I really like, um,

a little bit smaller in-house camp.

Um,

I just think it's more manageable and,

and I think the athletes

respond a little bit better.

I just think it can get a

little bit crazy if you've

got a ton of athletes and, you know,

so that,

and neither one is right or wrong per se.

I just think that, you know,

kind of knowing where we

are now and being able to

really kind of keep it tight and,

and then have people come

and visit and things like that,

which are great.

But, but I, you know,

I would say right now I'm

leaning more towards that.

So this is my last question

about this situation.

Cause again, I, I don't,

if there wasn't a big announcement,

I don't think anybody would even know.

Yeah.

Right.

And, and just like you said, but yeah,

what I want to say, ask is, you know,

a couple of years ago when

we were out there,

there was a thought that

you were going to own your

own affiliate and kind of

open your own camp.

And then you kind of went

away from that model.

Yep.

You're, you're hanging out at camp Rhino.

Well,

From what I've heard, Kiefer isn't moving.

So is there anything that's

going to be put in place or

a change of scenery or

anything like that to kind of avoid that?

Yeah, so there already has been.

Camp Rhino has two locations.

Camp Rhino has a south

location and a north location.

we were already spending

time kind of split because

alex lives two minutes from

the north location and 40

minutes from the south

location um and the south

location tends to be the

it's the bigger one and

it's where you know most of

the people are training um

so we have you know

basically decided like

ricky alex and you know a

few of the you know a few

others um that we're going

to train pretty much exclusively up north

I just think it's smoother that way.

And I think that ultimately

just a little bit less tension,

a little less weirdness.

Listen, I wish Kiefer the best.

but he, you know,

he went to one of our

biggest competitors and I

don't necessarily want to

be in the same gym as, as,

as someone who's, you know, maybe feeding,

uh, results and times and things to,

to other people.

And, you know, that, then that's,

and I'm sure he feels the same way.

So, you know, the way,

the way that I feel about

it is ultimately like, you know, it, it,

it seems like, uh,

It seems like a better situation that way.

We're not stepping on any

toes and there's no tension at all.

And so ultimately, you know,

this is is and the gym is phenomenal.

Like north location is great.

Alex is, you know,

happy because it's a couple

of minutes from her house.

Obviously, Ricky is staying with her.

So it's incredibly convenient.

And what's good for me is

I'm actually like right between the two.

So I'm about 20 minutes from from north,

20 minutes from south.

So it doesn't really matter.

And we owned a lot of the

equipment that was in South,

a lot of the pig and the

handstand ramps and some

machines and things like that.

So it just brought some of

those things over, things that we need.

And then we'll see.

We'll see how it shakes out

after the games.

Obviously,

I'd love to have access to both gyms.

I'm not sure exactly what

their plan is over there,

but I have a great

relationship with the owners there.

You know, they're massively team Alex,

which is awesome because

she's the coach for them.

And, you know,

so so they're obviously big

time in her corner and and

they're just great people.

And I think they appreciate

us being there.

We appreciate them.

And it's been a very

symbiotic relationship.

And I think it will continue to be so.

Um, so yeah, I mean,

that's kind of the way that it's been, um,

over the last, uh, week or so that,

you know, since we,

since we started to kind of

migrate some stuff over, um, and, uh,

and yeah, so that's what we'll do.

We'll, we'll,

we'll train there for the games and.

You know, because ultimately, I mean,

the way that I look at it is, you know,

underdogs is Las Vegas.

You know,

that's just the way that I see it.

And so ultimately, like, you know,

do whatever you want over there.

That's totally cool.

But yeah,

I don't necessarily have to be a

part of it.

So that's the way I look at it.

There you go.

Yeah.

Well, cool.

Well, I want to move on to your athletes.

We got the games coming up a pretty.

Actually, I got I got so many comments.

Junior Reed, we are team Alex.

Me too.

Sarah Cooper,

please don't let Ricky do

anything in the next month

where he can hurt himself

so he can show up for the games healthy.

Sarah, yeah.

Most of the biking is being

done on a bike or an echo bike.

We'll have to do a couple of

road bike pieces, he and Alex,

but it'll be on flat ground

on the road and it'll be

around their house.

Um,

I don't necessarily think we're going

to see that at the games.

I just don't know that

they're going to be able to do that with,

you know, the, the heat and, uh, um,

you know, terrain.

I mean, it would be great if they did,

obviously it, it,

Ricky usually wins those events,

but I just don't, you know,

he's so good on a bike already.

He doesn't have to spend a

lot of time on a bike.

So we'll probably do one or

two of those pieces.

What do you take from Dave

interviews where he keeps

asking people if they,

if they like cycling in the games?

You know, Dave,

he likes to throw people off.

I don't take what he says.

You know, I think Dave is very,

he plays a lot of mental warfare.

You know, he throws you off.

He does this, does that.

I mean, you listen to it.

And if it's there, great.

But I, you know, you know, let's be honest,

you know, unless they really,

and I just don't see it happening.

I think you're going to see

a significantly less amount

of outdoor workouts.

You have to.

I mean,

just for the safety of the athletes,

the heat index down there is wild.

Like you look at it and, you know, I mean,

you're talking about, you know,

it's well over 100 degrees, you know,

and the humidity is outrageous.

I do agree with you.

Yeah.

Every time I think that,

I think they made them run

in 117 degrees in Vegas at

the West coast classic.

Yeah, that's true.

One workout here, one workout there.

And I don't think it had, I mean,

some people wilted in the heat.

I will say that,

but the people who were strong did well.

Yes.

And historically, you know, listen,

historically,

it's probably about a 50-50

split indoor-outdoor or

maybe even a little bit more outdoor,

but there's no way that's

going to happen.

But even if it's 20%, you know, I mean,

that makes a difference.

I mean, if you've got, you know,

if you've got 12 to 15

events and we're doing two

or three of them outdoors,

that makes a big difference, you know?

So you have to do some heat prepping.

And boy, oh boy,

I don't know if you've looked at the

at the temperatures in Vegas right now,

but man, it is freaking brutal here.

Like it's like walking

outside into an oven.

I don't remember it ever being this hot.

Maybe I'm just getting older.

It's brutal outside right now.

So Ricky got off a plane.

Cause you know, in Australia it's winter.

He got off a plane on Monday and he,

the first thing he said to me, he's like,

bro, this is, this is so hot.

I'm like, yeah, get ready, baby.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I saw a yellow this morning

on Savan and he said the

heat to acclimate to the heat.

He puts his biker in the sauna.

that and that's what I'm

doing to just try to get

acclimated to the heat and

do some workouts yeah so I

thought that was really

then you don't have the sun

on you that's a little

different because the sun

beating down on you is is

is a different animal it

can be hot but if the sun's

not beating on you it's not

quite and then you you add

that in and it's it's a

it's a different animal

completely and the sun here

is just brutal so yeah so I

want to talk about ricky and alex yeah

you know,

you have two athletes that have

the potential to both podium.

Yeah.

Some might even say potential to win.

Maybe not this year.

Maybe Ricky, definitely this year.

I think,

I think this is the deepest men's field.

We've, I put that poll question out today,

the deepest men's field we've ever seen.

Agreed.

Anybody from like one to eight could win.

I agree.

Um,

And then you have Alex who, you know,

if T is not there,

she has a shot as anybody.

Yeah.

I agree with that.

So how excited are you to

take these two studs to the

games in a couple of weeks?

Yeah, it's, it's an incredible,

I'm just lucky.

I feel like, you know,

I feel like very blessed and,

and you know,

aside from them just being great athletes,

they're just,

they're just such cool people.

And, and,

My relationship with them is so special,

and I feel like as I mature

and evolve as a coach,

you cherish those

relationships that you have

with your athletes,

especially the ones that

really just become family.

Um, you know, and, and both of them,

Alex and Ricky, you know, um,

that's the way our relationship is,

you know, and it's, it's easy and,

and it's, uh, you know, I,

I just think it's very special.

So I think that means even more when you,

when you look at it that way, um,

cause you just,

you like to see good things

happen to good people.

Um, and, and so,

and I consider both of them

just incredibly good people.

But yeah, it's exciting, man.

It's exciting and it's also,

I would say it's a bit

stressful because you have expectations.

You wanna be able to help

them achieve their goals

and live up to those expectations.

And so obviously,

there's a bit of pressure,

but pressure is a privilege, right?

I mean, it really is.

If there are expectations and pressure,

that means you're doing something right.

So ultimately for the two of them,

we're just,

we're just trying to prep them

the best we can.

I think more than ever, you know,

I'm extremely conscious of,

of everything that they're doing,

like every single day,

what we're doing programming wise,

volume wise, recovery wise.

You know,

it's just so important leading up

to the games to go into the

games as close to 100%, you know,

physically and mentally

prepared as possible.

If you go in and you've got

a little shoulder thing

going on or you've got a

little back thing or, you know...

Those things tend to be

exacerbated so much the

games because of the volume

because of the, you know,

the lack of sleep schedule, you know,

sometimes Dave will wake

them up at three in the

morning and you don't know what they're,

you know, it's just,

it's just things that you

have to be prepped for.

So,

You've got to be ready

physically and mentally,

and you've got to be as

healthy as humanly possible.

So everybody talks about games training,

games training.

I think it's very easy to go

overboard with games training.

You have to ride the line.

You have to prepare for volume,

but you've got to do it

intelligently because you

can't just do volume for volume's sake.

There has to be intention in

every single thing that you're doing.

And that's why it's a

nerve-wracking time for me

because I go over it over

and over and over.

And I'm tweaking and

constantly just making sure

that I'm completely happy

with everything that

they're getting and

everything that they're doing.

But yeah, I mean,

I couldn't be happier with

who I'm going to be there with.

And I think we both have a

little extra time.

motivation after the last couple of weeks,

to be honest, which is great.

I mean, I'll take it.

Any,

any little thing that you can kind of

put a little chip right up here.

I, I always say going into competition,

ain't nothing wrong with that.

So, you know,

Yeah,

I lived on chips when I was an athlete.

But you bring up an

interesting point for me

because back in the Froning, Kalipa days,

it was volume for volume's sake.

Work out all day, get ready.

And how has coaching changed

in the last five years

to mitigate the injuries at the games,

to mitigate going in with a bum shoulder?

Yeah,

I think you could get away with that

for a little while.

And I think back in the day,

And maybe, you know,

I feel like there's

probably still a few

athletes out there that train that way,

you know, and just do, you know,

kind of classic CrossFit all the time.

But I think you see now, you know,

especially with kind of like the more,

I would say,

and it's crazy to think it's

only 10 years ago.

I mean, you know,

like say the modern day CrossFit athlete,

like what we've seen

probably in the last six years.

Yeah.

maybe,

maybe a little longer than six years, but,

but really I would say that, I mean,

you know, there's,

there's so you're seeing

very different style of programming.

You know, you're seeing a lot of, um,

a lot of work that's, that's done,

you know,

specifically in specific

modalities you know, that's not,

I would say traditional CrossFit you know,

without getting into the minutia of it,

you know, and, but, but, but ultimately,

I mean, I,

I think that you have to do

that now in order to stay healthy.

I think you've got to do

that in order to be strong.

I think you're seeing a ton of,

time spent with recovery,

recovery modalities, you know,

obviously physiotherapists, but also,

you know, Alex, you know,

goes to this incredible

recovery facility called

Project Wellbeing here in

Vegas and with for red

light and oxygen and, you know,

cold plunge and sauna and

just different modalities they have there,

different machines that they have there,

different things for like

functional bodybuilding,

different things that we do there,

like to test body mechanics

to make sure we're working

on imbalances and things.

So I think you're seeing the

sport progress.

I think you're seeing the sport progress.

I think you're seeing people

who are a bit more scientific or,

you know,

kind of looking at it.

And then that's not to say

you take away like the feel

of it and the soul of it.

We're not going like straight analytics,

like baseball.

Right.

But, but ultimately it's, you know, you've,

you've got to grow and you've got to,

you know, I think people are, are,

are just getting better at it.

And,

and so you're seeing what the athletes

are able to do, you know,

and it's just defies logic, you know,

between, between,

aerobic capacity and their

strength numbers and their

ability to to do you know

high skill body weight

movements I wouldn't say

high skill gymnastics

because that's still that's

still not necessarily the

case you know we think of

muscle up as high skill and

that's not even a scored

movement you know and on

the rings for the for boys

that's how you get into

them but but ultimately like

It's, yeah, I mean,

the evolution of the

sport's just been crazy, you know,

to see the numbers.

I mean,

I think about when I competed in

2012 and if you snatched

over 200 pounds as a man at that time,

like that was really impressive.

Obviously,

we now know what the numbers are.

And, you know,

it's just wild to see the evolution.

And I'm interested to see

where it's going to go from here.

You know, it just continues every year.

I mean, it's just incredible to see.

So, yeah,

I think everyone is just getting better.

And I think that that's, you know,

athletes, coaches, et cetera.

And I think if you're not,

you're kind of getting left behind.

So I'm going to clean up a

couple of these comments.

Speaking of high snatch numbers,

John Young, about to feed that dog,

and that was in response to

the chip on your shoulder, I think.

Yeah, John's a good dude.

I like John.

And then Wad Zombie, Justin,

who was the better vocalist,

Freddie Mercury or Marvin Gaye?

Oh, come on, man.

That's not fair.

I mean...

that's like the Mount

Rushmore of vocalists and

one's an R and B vocalist

and one's a rock vocalist.

I would put them in the top

three on both sides.

I know that's,

I'm riding a fence here and

I know he probably wanted an answer,

but I, I, I would, I would see for,

for me personally on, on the rock side,

you know, Freddie Mercury,

Robert Plant and, and,

Chris Cornell are probably

my three favorites.

And then on the R&B side,

it's Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye,

and Donny Hathaway.

Those would be my three favorites.

So I'm kind of looking at

the holy trinity of both sides.

That's what I love about you.

You just throw out a question, man,

and you expand on it to a point.

I just love it.

So we just had semifinals.

How much data do you garner from semis?

Or is it at this point with

the two athletes you have,

and you have others too,

but I'm focusing on Alex and, and Ricky.

Yeah.

With those two athletes,

is it just another step or

is there data there that you can like, uh,

garner from, from their performance?

It was absolutely data.

Yeah.

We, we, we go through every single event,

every, honestly,

every single movement in

every event with a fine tooth comb.

Uh, we talk about,

were we able to execute the strategies,

you know, that we had in place?

If not, what broke down?

Um,

And you're able to pull from, I think,

from every event, you know,

whether it's positive or negative.

And when I say negative,

I would only – I would say

even negative is positive

because ultimately you're

learning and you're just becoming better.

So you're able to put that

into programming and tweak some things.

You know, I think obviously –

I think both performed well

for the most part.

I think obviously the goal

was for both to win and I

think Ricky won.

So obviously we feel,

moderately satisfied with that.

I know there was one or two

events there that he, you know,

hopes to clean up.

And Alex, I think was, you know,

honestly was pissed off.

I don't think Alex was pleased at all.

And I was kind of pissed off too.

I think both of us left there just,

you know,

like second place just kind of

feels like kissing your sister.

You know what I mean?

It's like not, you know, it's nice,

I guess.

Do you think that feels

getting deeper or is it just...

Because it seemed to me like

it was Alex is the home run hitter.

Yeah.

And Abby was the consistent hitter.

Yeah,

I think that just the consistency

that we thought we would

have on a couple of those

events just wasn't there.

And, you know,

I think she was way too

timid on the first event.

And if you watched it,

she was in like 18th place

in her heat after the first

round and then had to

battle all the way up and I

think finished eighth in

her heat and 11th overall,

but was totally fine after

the event and realized like

the strategy was to go out fast and

and run with the leaders and

then hang on to a spot and

she got boxed in got

someone you know was kind

of blocking her on the

stairs and instead of

karate chopping someone's

arms and getting by him I

mean listen it's

competition you got to do

that Alex is nice but

sometimes she's too nice

and she'll admit it you

know she she got boxed in

on the stairs and didn't

fight to get through them

and got stuck and you know

so that 11th place finish

you know was was definitely

something that should have

been somewhere closer to

sixth or seventh I would say and then

On the snatch workout, you know,

it wasn't going to be a

great event for her.

And when I say a great event,

obviously you're talking about, you know,

sub five minutes, sub six minutes, right?

But she went a minute faster

in practice and she got no repped.

She didn't miss.

She got no repped by the

judge on the ninth rep of

the first 10 snatches for

not standing up all the way.

And it totally rattled her

and it changed the whole vibe.

She became incredibly cautious.

She started taking

considerably more rest before it.

And then you saw what happened.

I mean, you come in 23rd and there you go.

So ultimately,

we know that snatching is not her best,

but at the same time, I mean,

you're talking about...

I still think people don't, you know,

they kind of have this

image that she can't snatch

and that's just really not the case.

I mean, you know,

she snatches close to 200 pounds.

She's considerably more

consistent and we just

haven't shown it in competition.

And until you show it in competition,

no one gives a shit about

you talking about it.

So that was the whole thing

drawing from that was like, listen,

you got to still attack.

Even when something like that happens,

you can't let a judge

affect you in that way.

And, you know, and I think, you know,

something like that, that was 23rd,

that probably should have been, you know,

12th or 13th.

And then she wins, you know,

the competition.

So I think that that's something,

like I said, that we can draw from.

And obviously Abby did a phenomenal job,

you know, but I'll be honest.

I just,

when Alex shows up at a competition,

you know, our expectation is to win.

That's it, you know?

So, you know, and I think...

I think everyone obviously

understands how good Tia is.

When you talk about the games,

we know that she's the favorite, you know,

but there's no question that, you know,

we feel like, you know,

she's getting to that place

where it doesn't matter

what's programmed.

And that's where you're working towards.

And we're getting closer,

we're getting closer,

we're getting closer.

We're not quite there yet,

but I think within the next year or two,

you know,

that's going to be the situation.

It just doesn't matter.

You know,

you become what I like to call

bulletproof and that's the goal.

And I, and I love that term,

but the question I have for

you is with Alex,

because her confidence

isn't there on the snatch

or like if she messed up a

legless rope climb,

like she knows that's her,

her jam and she's not going

to get rattled.

Yep.

Right.

Is it just because that

snatches or weakness that

she lets it rattle her?

Yes.

And then my followup to that is,

are you glad she was pissed off?

Yeah.

Hell yeah.

I would have been worried if

we had left there and she

would have been like, Oh,

I punched my ticket today.

We weren't there to punch

our ticket to the games.

I mean, like, you know, we were,

we were there to win.

You're there to make a statement.

She made a statement at two events,

you know, she made it,

she set a world record and she finished,

you know, and then the, the other one,

she came in second in the world, you know,

she, she, those, those two workouts, um,

We're looking to make a

statement in everything.

And ultimately, you know,

when you don't do that, you know,

I think you leave there

feeling unsatisfied and

that's what you want.

Let's be honest.

Like if an athlete is satisfied,

that is the,

that is the most dangerous

thing to an athlete.

like feeling fulfilled or

feeling satisfied or you do

not want that.

You look at the best

athletes in the world and

when they win a competition

or they win a championship,

what are they doing?

They're talking about the next one.

They're talking about repeating.

They're talking about

winning three in a row, four in a row.

And that's where you want to get to.

And that's the blessing and

the curse of being a great

athlete because you're

rarely ever satisfied,

but the best in the world

are rarely ever satisfied.

And that's key.

If you want to be the best in the world,

you better not be satisfied

or else you can get your

ass handed to you by people who aren't.

I'm Meredith Vogel Thomas.

That's why I sneak up on

friends in the gym to know

rep them during wads,

just building up their mental game.

I like that.

Uh, so John has a great question,

John Young about Ricky.

And that is,

does Ricky have trouble

holding onto a squat

strength stamina after

getting running back fast and vice versa?

One squad event at rogue.

I was crazy impressed,

but he wasn't as fast semis opposite.

Yeah, that's a great question, John.

I think in Ricky's case,

it is a very slippery slope.

I can tell you that at Rogue,

after Rogue was over,

first thing he said to me was, man,

my squats felt good, but damn,

I just felt heavy.

I felt my legs felt heavy.

I felt like I couldn't move.

I felt like I couldn't run.

So the rest of the season

was really trying to

balance between the two.

And I think ultimately for

Ricky at the games –

it's more important that he

feel fast and he's going to be strong.

But what's more important

for him at the games is

more like squat volume,

feeling really good about

moving a barbell,

but moving it multiple times for reps.

And listen, he's pretty strong right now.

Just, you know,

he's pretty easily last

week before he left to come here,

you know, clean and jerked, you know,

355 without any issue, you know,

snatching around 290, 285, 290.

That's plenty strong for the

CrossFit Games.

And then, you know,

his running numbers right

now are just terrifying.

So, you know, that's more important to me.

But we'll see.

We'll see because, you know,

we'll see what Dave has planned.

We'll see if the change of

moving into Dickey's arena...

changes things, you know,

you're hoping that you're

still getting three or four

running events, like, like, you know,

in the past or cycling or, you know,

some weird things in there, man,

I just love to see the, the normal,

you know, kind of odd object, strange,

funky movements.

You got to fit,

you got to figure out on the fly,

just feel like those things to me are,

Such a huge part of the

cache of the games and what

makes someone the fittest.

You got to be able to figure

some shit out on the fly.

I just hope that not every

event is classic CrossFit.

I think we had that for the open.

We did that in quarters.

I'd love to see it progress and evolve.

And I'm hoping they're going

to have some really fun,

funky stuff planned for us.

Obviously some traditional,

but then I'd love to see

some cool new stuff.

So with Ricky,

when we were out on Orange Park,

everything is spread out.

So transitions and actual

running ability play a factor.

Does moving inside hurt him?

I don't know.

It's hard to say.

I mean, you look at semifinals,

he did pretty well.

You know what I mean?

I think it's going to depend on events.

He's got a lot of home runs.

So obviously if, you know,

if those are in the workouts, you know,

if you're indoors,

but you're getting a pegboard or,

you know, legless rope climb,

or you're getting a, you know,

handstand obstacles, things like that,

that he's, you know, really,

really good at, obviously, you know,

ring muscle ups and this and that.

But yeah, I don't know.

I'm curious to see, you know,

I'd like to think we're at

the point now that, you

He's just good enough that

he's going to be there.

I think one of the things

that we probably – it just

depends on the programming

a little bit at the beginning.

Back in 22 –

Obviously, that bike workout was first,

so he got off to a hot start.

I'm curious to see what the

first event will be.

It's always, you know,

usually something a little bit funky.

But, you know, we'll see.

And, you know,

I think the thing for Ricky...

He'll even readily admit this.

Ricky is a really good front runner,

and he feels really good

when he's in front.

He's got a lot of energy.

We don't know what the

program is going to be.

I think you're going to see

a lot of leaderboard

fluctuation on the men's side,

and I think you've got to

be mentally tough.

One of the things that makes

me feel like he can be and

will be is if you saw his

comeback at Rogue this past year.

year where he was what was

he in like 30th after day

one or something and

finished second right like

in the final day I think he

he had you know two wins

and a third or something like that

So, so it's in there, you know,

so we can draw off of that,

that experience and say, Hey, you know,

even if you're, you're,

you're not in the lead

after day one or day two,

like we're there,

we're in striking distance and, and,

you know, you can do it.

So, you know, those are, that's,

that's important.

But yeah, I don't know.

I think we're all,

I think we're all really curious as to,

as to what, you know, Dickies is gonna,

is gonna bring.

So I'm going to ask you one

last games question,

and I'm going to hit you

with some quick hitters.

What I appreciate about you

is you never give me the stock answer.

So what has to happen at the

games for Alex and Ricky

for you not to leave pissed off?

I think this is kind of a stock answer,

but it's true.

No,

I think ultimately you can only control

what you can do.

And so ultimately,

if we go there and we feel

like we're not giving points away,

but here's the thing.

I feel like if they go and

they execute and they don't

give points away,

they're both going to be

really happy about where they finish.

I mean, ultimately like that,

that to me is because

they're both really fucking good.

So, you know,

you could say that about

somebody else and that

person could finish 18th.

Like that's not going to

happen with Ricky and Alex.

You know what I mean?

Like if they go there and

they have a good weekend and they,

and they, you know,

don't make mental mistakes

and they don't give points

away and they run through

the finish line and not let, you know,

and they,

they don't screw up a transition.

They don't forget to move a pylon.

Like they do the things that

you need to do to execute.

They're both going to do really well,

you know.

But listen, I mean,

I don't think there's any

question that we're going

there to improve upon what

we've done in the past.

And in the past,

Ricky's finished third at

the games and Alex has finished fifth.

And I think both of them

want to smash that.

I don't think both of them

want to go and not feel

like they're progressing.

So, I mean, you know,

I think you can take both

of those answers and then I think you can,

you know, kind of extrapolate from that.

You know,

we're looking to do some serious

fucking damage.

I mean, I'll put it that way for sure.

So,

John Young translated that to Ricky

winning Alex podium.

Yeah, I mean, I think obviously…

that both of them in their minds,

that in their minds that

that's what they think is

possible and is also like

that's the goal.

and just because john has to

poke the bear his

prediction is ricky winning

alex fourth yeah and I i I

saw his predictions and I

felt like he was very fair

in in what he said and I'll

be honest with you you know

I i think that certainly

ricky is in the mix to win

um but I i there's no way

that we are taking any of

the other dudes lightly I mean

I think what Jeff and what

Roman did last year

obviously was incredibly impressive.

I think we know that Pat and

Brent are most likely going to be there.

Then I think you see some of

these other guys.

Obviously,

Dallin's coming and Hopper looks primed.

you know I mean never can

count out lazar and

specific events and I mean

there are the the men's

field is special it's

special it's deep um that's

not to say the women's

isn't I just mean the the

parody there is incredible

um and uh when we do the

spin poll like it is so

hard on the men's side yeah

it is so hard yeah I i it

is and I think on the women's side listen

I think you would be an asshole, you know,

if you didn't admit that, you know,

Tia's the big favorite.

I mean, that's obvious.

But you also understand that in sports,

anything can happen.

And it usually does.

You know,

so you've got to go there with

the anticipation that like, hey, listen,

like she's going to do what she does,

but I've got to make sure I

put my best foot forward.

I can't just assume that

she's going to do this or

that or assume she's going to win.

You can't just give it to her.

You know what I mean?

So, I mean, that's,

and I love the fact that, you know,

I look at,

obviously I'm a data guy and

you look at the global leaderboard and,

you know,

obviously there's some workouts

there that,

I look out for Alex and I'm like, okay,

we know that one we need to

improve and especially on the snatch one.

But after that was over,

the first thing I did was I

pulled up 2016,

which was the last time

they did that at a semifinal.

And I looked up Tia.

Tia did that workout,

I think in like 8.29.

So she did it in about 20

seconds slower than Alex.

And she finished second at

the games that year.

So just because you didn't

smash that snatch event,

it don't mean shit at the games.

You know, you look at,

and so it was important to

show Alex that.

Tia was also 22 years old,

which is exactly what Alex is this year.

She's 22.

And then I also said,

and look at the progression.

This year, Tia finished it in 5.01.

She's 30 years old.

It's very different.

So she went from 8.30 to

5.01 in three and a half years.

In eight years, three and a half minutes,

I said,

so don't let that shit get you

down because we're getting

better and better and

better all the time.

And this is the woman who

was the best in the world,

who at 22 was 20 seconds slower than you.

So don't be upset about that.

There's a lot you can draw from that.

Totally agree.

And I love the way you put that.

So is Bron going to the Masters games?

Yes.

So he's going.

You going to be there?

Um, I hope so.

I have three,

I have three that are competing.

So I have Braun, I have, uh,

Shannon Schliefer in, uh, she,

she's in the 50 to 54.

She was seventh and, uh, in, in, um,

semis and then an angel, uh,

Cardenas who's in 45 to 49.

So I coached three masters, um,

And, uh, I would love to go.

It just, uh, you know,

it just depends on wife and

kids and timing, et cetera.

So it's, it's not easy to leave the family,

man.

It's harder and harder, you know?

Um,

so I got to really pick and choose my

spots.

Um, but, uh, but, but I,

I'm holding out hope I may be able to, to,

to make it there.

Cool.

Um, cuts released yesterday.

The schedule.

You good with cuts?

Uh,

I don't hate cuts.

I kind of wish that it was

40-40 the first two days

and then 30-30 the second two days.

I would like for it to stay

at 30 because I still think

that you've got athletes

that are as low as the high

20s that can affect the leaderboard,

that are specialists in specific events,

that can affect the

leaderboard those last two

days where the point values are crazy.

You know,

there's massive fluctuations

because of the point values.

And I still think that there

are athletes that go down

that deep that can make a difference.

But I'm not like over the

top upset or happy either way.

Yeah,

I believe if you had the right 40

athletes at the games,

you wouldn't need cuts

because then the 40 field

would be good enough to have an impact.

Yeah, I agree with you, but I, you know,

I think you could also say

that about a lot of sports, right?

Look at like,

like track and field and swimming.

And if you had, uh, uh,

all the sprinters from the

United States against, you know, the, the,

there's probably a one or

two or three guys from

various other countries and

then the entire U S team that in,

but they're only taking three guys,

you know, and same thing as swimming,

you know?

So, um,

But that's the same thing

over and over through the cuts.

What's that?

You do the same event over

and over again through the cuts, right?

Yes.

Yes, you do.

I agree.

This changes, right?

Yes.

It has impact when we get to

what is programmed when and

where during the games.

It does.

But you also have,

I also do understand and

recognize the importance of

globalization and visibility and,

outside of this golf is

globalized and not an

olympic fashion right well

in the olympics I mean

tennis is in the olympics

and golf is in the olympics

so you're seeing people

from various places but yes

I do understand what you

mean they're on the tour of

the sport right yeah you

have a tour in other

countries we're at grand

slams the best athletes get

to play I do understand that

yes,

I get more sense for globalization to

inspire people in those

countries than to let

someone go to the games and get hammered.

It does.

But I also think that when

you see somebody who looks

like you and who talks the

way you do in that language that,

and they're able to represent you,

that that's, that's special for,

for a lot of people,

but I don't disagree with you.

I, I do think obviously, um,

we see that there's some

vast differences in ability

between the regions and I

think that what would be

I think what would be better

would be to really take a

hard look at the worldwide

rankings and then, you know,

to figure out a way to

divvy up those spots to

where you'd still get representation,

but just maybe not as much

representation.

Right.

I think like if you get one spot, great.

You don't necessarily deserve three or,

you know, you get two spots,

but you don't necessarily deserve four.

You know,

I think obviously those are

things that are that are, you know,

we need to discuss and figure out.

The world-wide rankings are a joke.

And Carolyn Prevost has put

this out on our show that

what happens is you have

like a Shung Young Choi who

gets hurt and doesn't

participate one year.

Yeah.

Somebody else earns games points.

Yeah.

This year we have – and this

was brought up earlier in the comments –

Three people pop for drugs in Asia.

Now fifth place gets to go

to the games and earn games points.

That gives them such an

advantage in the worldwide

rankings that now we're

starting to skew in a very bad direction.

I agree.

I just think that they

really need to kind of...

Start from scratch.

In the last five minutes we have,

what do you think is the

optimal season structure to

go from scratch, start over,

and make this thing right?

Yeah, I mean,

I've talked about it for a

long time that I think we

need a real season structure.

that mirrors something

similar to the PGA Tour or F1 or ATP,

et cetera.

I know it's probably an unpopular

you know, decision or an unpopular opinion,

but I really do believe

that the future of the

sport does not lie in the

hands of CrossFit.

I think ultimately it's

gonna need to be a

different entity that takes it over.

And obviously,

we'll always champion the methodology,

but I think that the sport

needs to be led by a group

that treats the sport as

the primary focus and not

as a way to draw people into affiliates.

And I think that there needs

to be a point system,

a way to qualify through events,

tiered events around the world.

And I think that the

CrossFit Games should be

one of many Grand Slam events.

I think you should have four

in a season where you're talking about,

you know, similar to golf and tennis,

where you've got, you know,

whether it could be the

ones that we have now, right?

Waterpalooza, Rogue, the games, et cetera.

But those are your Grand Slams,

and that's what you're

looking towards to be, you know –

the pinnacle of our sport.

I think it would give the

athletes an incredible

opportunity to be professional athletes,

to make money.

I think it would give an

incredible opportunity for

sponsors and sponsorship at

these big events,

as opposed to just this one

at the end of a season

that's kind of fractured

because then you've got an

off season with a lot of other big events,

which creates a lack of an

off season for athletes,

which obviously long-term

is going to affect their health.

So I think ultimately it's, it's a,

a season that's, that's, you know,

run by an organization that, that,

that puts the, that puts the sport first.

And that's just my opinion.

And, you know,

people can call me stupid or

whatever they want, but that's fine.

Cause ultimately I, I just think I,

I really,

I want to see this thing break

out from just being a

little niche thing that, you know,

only we follow.

You know, I, I,

I started watching another

reality show last night on

Netflix called Sprint,

and it's about the best

sprinters in the world, right?

Noah Lyles, Kerry Richardson, et cetera.

And then there's the Tour de France,

and then there's Drive to Survive,

and then there's Full Swing.

This sport and these

athletes just lends itself

so much to that style of sports

of visibility and show

they're superheroes that

super humans doing

superhuman things and and

and we're the only ones who

know about it you know uh

and and the lack of

visibility the lack of of

you know media and content

like there are people that

are obviously trying and I

feel like they're they're

getting met with resistance

at every corner uh with

what we saw at semi-finals

I just don't understand it

I understand the plan I

don't know what we're doing

Um, and it's frustrating to me, you know?

Um, it's so funny.

Cause when a lot of people

don't know the PGA is an

organization who leases out

their name to have this pro golf tour.

Right.

And then somebody else runs the PGA tour.

They're just,

they just bought the name off

of the PGA organization.

And then they have a PGA

championship and the

masters and the U S open

and the British open.

Um,

I think that is a perfect

way to have a season.

And I think it's a perfect

way to highlight the

athletes much more and to

allow them to make a living.

Currently,

we have one organization trying

to run this whole thing and

do something else on the side,

which is actually their primary business.

And they just keep tripping

over their own toes.

They have a focus.

And I understand that.

And I respect it.

And if you listen to Don Fall,

he doesn't mince his words.

He'll tell you.

Our goal is to...

get more butts into affiliates,

get more people doing CrossFit.

We want to have more affiliates,

more athletes doing

CrossFit because we feel

like that's the way to

living a healthy life.

And I agree with that.

I think that that's fantastic.

I owned an affiliate for 10

years and our motto was

change your fitness, change your life.

I totally understand that.

And I agree with that.

But he also, in the same conversation,

will talk about how they're just, oh,

we still spend way too much

money on sport.

We're pulling more and more

money out of sport.

We're cutting this.

We're cutting that.

Okay.

Well, if you're going to do that,

then why not try and look

at giving it to someone or

having someone come in and

and, and, and purchase it or, or, you know,

I'm not sure exactly lease it, et cetera.

Yeah.

But,

but how about giving it to someone who

wants to see it flourish and who, and who,

and whose primary focus is sport?

Because obviously, you know, it's not, and,

and that's fine.

But if that's the case,

you know,

I just feel like you got all

these athletes who devoted

their lives to this sport and,

and I'm kind of scared

about where it's going to go.

You know, I mean, I'm scared, honestly,

it's a little bit scary to,

to just see kind of,

I think a little bit of the regression,

you know,

that we've seen over the last few years.

And, and you know, I mean,

I've obviously put my heart

and soul into it and I'd

love to see it flourish.

Me too.

Without a sport, I don't have this.

Me either, bud.

Tristan Patrick,

100% need a structure like

that and preach it.

Um, well, Justin,

as always the hour freaking

flies by every time.

Yeah.

Um,

and then we end up like cramming as

much as we can in the last five minutes,

but thank you so much for

your time as always.

It's a blast having you on

and everybody in the chat.

Thank you for jumping in.

Sorry.

I couldn't get to all the questions.

They were flying in faster

than I could even read them.

Cool.

I appreciate that.

With that.

I will see everybody next

time on the Clydesdale media podcast.

Bye guys.

Bye guys.