National Police Association Podcast with guest, Jeff Simpson, LEO (Ret.) SVB-Child Abuse Det, Past FOP President of Lodge 9

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Betsy Smith: 00:05

I have with me a guest today that I love following on x, and, you know, I've known of him for a while. American law enforcement knows who this guy is. He, he is brave. He is outspoken and, so incredibly knowledgeable, and I knew that you had to meet him. Jeff Simpson, welcome to the show.

Jeff Simpson: 00:29

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Betsy Smith: 00:32

So, 1st and foremost,

Jeff Simpson: 00:35

I always ask everybody, every cop that comes on, Jeff, why did you become a cop? I wanted to help people. I know it sounds like the standard answer, but I wanted to be that guy that said, hey. I I wanna do that. Send me.

Jeff Simpson: 00:49

I'm a Christian, and, my 2 uncles were policemen. And, I they were township cops, got to park their cars at their houses. We lived on a farm, and and I saw them every day. And probably about 6, 7 years old, that's all I ever wanted to be. So that's I said I'm not gonna let anything stop me and did it.

Betsy Smith: 01:09

So you ended up in the Columbus, Ohio Police Department, a very, very large agency and, a a fantastically, well trained agency. I've had the pleasure to train there a number of times. And, so here you go from somebody who you know, you're kind of a farm kid like me, and, and you end up in urban policing. What was that like?

Jeff Simpson: 01:36

A big cultural change on many levels. There's 2 things I said I'd never do. Join the military and be a police officer at a big city, and I did both. I tested for Pennsylvania State Police. Minority recruitments got me that year.

Jeff Simpson: 01:51

And, I went to a job fair. CPD was hiring, and I put in for them, tested very well, moved 3 hours away. Next thing I know, I'm in the big city, and, it was a it was a big change, but it was very good experience, experience I wouldn't have gotten elsewhere. You know, everybody says their department's the best, but Columbus is an excellent department. I was very fortunate to have the career I did, but it was it was culture shock.

Jeff Simpson: 02:15

I'm a western Pennsylvania hillbilly. Grew up in a steel mill town and, knew I had to get out of there, so that's why I went to the the air force. I was a police officer in there for 4 years and got out in 1997, and then, fast burned right into Columbus and was hired there a year later in 98.

Betsy Smith: 02:33

I I I absolutely love it. I mean, you just have had this incredible life of service. And one of the things that you did, you decided to not just serve your community, but you decided to serve your brothers and sisters as, eventually, the, fraternal order of police, president in your police department. Now police unions, around the country are very different. Where you and I come from in the Midwest, our police unions, they do have some power.

Betsy Smith: 03:07

They're very necessary for us. Down here where I live now in Arizona, our police unions are more like associations. They don't have the same power, the same teeth, that we do in the east or in the Midwest. Talk about why you decided to get involved in union politics in your police department.

Jeff Simpson: 03:29

Never thought I'd do that either. I knew no one in Columbus at all. Nobody. Had no family here. We had just come out of the consent decree that we actually fought.

Jeff Simpson: 03:41

We're the only police department in the United States to fight, sue, and kick them out. But there's always some concessions. And long story short, we had to expand our internal affairs department, and we had over 35 internal affairs sergeants. So they needed grievance reps. Under our contract, we were allowed, I think, approximately 28 to 30 at the time.

Jeff Simpson: 04:01

And, I was the guy with the contract. And, I just kept it and read it and would answer questions at the table for the sergeant when he'd asked about overtime or something. At first, it was kinda perceived bad, but then it was like, hey. This kid just reads. And, then I got a call from the union president at that time.

Jeff Simpson: 04:17

I served under 5 consecutive union presidents, and I got called to his office. He wanted me to come in, and I'm like, oh, crap. What did I do? Because I was going they you could get off the street and go mark in in service to the internal affairs bureau, and you represented police officers when they had complaints, and there was plenty. And, he's I said, sir, did I do something wrong?

Jeff Simpson: 04:39

He goes, no. You're the guy we want. And they brought me down there to train, and then he ended up retiring. We had a county president get elected, which has which is very, very rare for CPD. And they needed somebody loyal to newest stuff, and I became the youngest grievance chair in Columbus police with only about 6 years on.

Jeff Simpson: 05:01

And it wasn't very well received, so I was under the gun, to prove that I could do it because you had a lot of responsibilities, at 6 years on. And then I did 2 years stint of that, and then I said, you know what? I wanna continue. We had a different president came in, and I ran for this for the lowest level position I could because I wanted to learn every position and got elected for I did 18 years. I did 9 consecutive terms before, my health kinda bit me in the butt, and I had to to retire.

Jeff Simpson: 05:33

But saw a lot and was very blessed to have that opportunity.

Betsy Smith: 05:37

Now a a couple of things. First of all, I want people to understand that you're doing all this while still being a police officer.

Jeff Simpson: 05:44

Right? Absolutely. Columbus is very unique. You are an active, that basically per our contract, we get released. We have 5 full time release spots, so you have to be able to perform the job still.

Jeff Simpson: 05:56

You could work special duty. You have to attend all the firearms qualifications, keep up on all the training, be called to wear the uniform at any time. But you were released. I had we have our own union office. We had about a 2 and a half $1,000,000 operating budget, and you reported to the union office.

Jeff Simpson: 06:13

And you're a full time officer. So when you are speaking out against the establishment, and in Columbus is a all blue county, always has been, very blue policies, very part place to police, and it's a unique presidency. You have 28 jurisdictions. It's not just a Columbus police president. Every jurisdiction of Franklin County is ours.

Jeff Simpson: 06:34

We have 45100 members, 32100 active, the rest retired. So when I speak, there's there's repercussions and, very difficult. But, yes, you're full time police officer.

Betsy Smith: 06:45

Can you I wanna go back for a minute. Can you explain to people, who aren't in law enforcement what a consent decree is?

Jeff Simpson: 06:54

A consent decree, basically, I'll keep it simple. It's almost like if someone makes a complaint it's almost like wrecking it to a divorce. You're arguing. You're not doing the right things, either wife or husband, and things all blow up. And we don't like each other's policies, you get turned in.

Jeff Simpson: 07:12

And it's like a judge coming in and saying, the wife, you're gonna get this and you're gonna pay that, and the husband, you're gonna get this and get that taken away or whatever, and you're gonna pay that. It's the same thing as a consent consent decree. They come in, establish that your policies are not in order, that you're violating human rights, and they put restrictions on you that you have to follow. And, that's what came into us out of a complaint. It was frivolous, but instead of bowing to it, I guess, we we knew that we were a good department.

Jeff Simpson: 07:43

I've just come on, and, we upped the members the we were paying an extra $20 because we had to raise 1,000,000 of dollars to fight it. And everybody kicked in, even the suburban agencies, because Columbus, if they could get us, the rest of the dominoes would fall. So we had specific orders that you will follow, and you will be governed by the federal government, I. E, the Department of Justice.

Betsy Smith: 08:05

And that's what I want people to understand. It's the federal government that comes in and tells a local law enforcement agency what they're gonna do, what policies they're gonna have. And and, people need to know too that one of the things they do, they send a a very highly paid consultant. This is happening all over the nation to this day. It happened during my entire police career.

Betsy Smith: 08:28

They send consultants who look over your shoulder, write reports, and and, sometimes they stay for years years. Don't they, Jeff?

Jeff Simpson: 08:39

Yes. They do. I actually when I got out, I wanted to go to Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh, I was grew up a half hour from there, and they just entered 1. And the guys were just broke then, and that was in 1997.

Jeff Simpson: 08:49

Some stay effect for 5, 10, 15. Some of them never go away. What people don't realize is that hurts the citizens. That is a morale buster to the officer. It hurts the citizens because you have basically an entity of the federal government telling you how to police, and some of them never worn a u police uniform, sat in a police car, or taken one police run or know how to deal with the public.

Jeff Simpson: 09:11

So it's very unfortunate. It's a situation that no department wants to find themselves in. And, we're we're a nationally accredited aid agency, and I believe we're up to the 14th largest, police agency in the United States. So we have the best policies. Nobody's perfect.

Jeff Simpson: 09:27

But but all that does is just cripple the police force and how we protect the citizens.

Betsy Smith: 09:33

You know, and when we talk about accountability, we you know, no you know, nobody hates a bad cop more than a good cop. I think that's something we all say. We've all believe we all believe that. And very often, these complaints are they're racial in nature, political in nature, and you can complain about any police officer or any police department anytime, and you don't really have to prove that your complaint is accurate. Do you?

Jeff Simpson: 10:06

No. That is correct. What people don't understand, it's when you make a complaint, it can be about anything under the sun, and the burden of proof is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I mean, there's level and level and level of re review of accountability on a policeman. One complaint probably triggers about 10 levels of review.

Jeff Simpson: 10:23

And then on top of that, the the standard is just preponderance in the evidence, which is more likely than not 51%. Anybody can go 51%. So it's not like we're even being held to proof beyond a reasonable doubt. It's pretty easy to get a complaint substantiated. So, I mean, you really gotta watch your p's and q's, which is again, a hindrance to how people police, especially with the addition of body cameras now.

Betsy Smith: 10:49

You know, you've been the victim of frivolous lawsuits. I've been the victim of frivolous lawsuits. Any cop with more than 5 years on the job definitely has. Jeff, explain to people what would happen to American policing if we lost Qualified Immunity.

Jeff Simpson: 11:08

It would be destroyed. Qualified Immunity first is a joke. It's a it's a false narrative. It really is. Because if you're already acting in bad faith, your department doesn't have to represent you.

Jeff Simpson: 11:20

If we lost qualified immunity that, oh, by the way, all of our politicians have, our prosecutors have, and our judges have in case they error, an issue of false prosecution or a bad judgment, they're protected to where I'd lose my home just by making a split second wrong decision, out of good faith. And in all my years, I've never seen a policeman go out and say, I wanna shoot me someone today, or I wanna hurt someone today. That only happens in the movies. We're not perfect, but there's a big difference of mistake on purpose and the mistake of the heart. But it would truly cripple.

Jeff Simpson: 11:55

We've already seen a decline in law enforcement nationwide. The facts, that's a fact that's proven because people are scared of political indictments. Just here in Columbus, Ohio, we had an officer convicted of murder murder, out of a shoot. Now that means that he purposely went out and said, hey. I'm gonna show up on this run today, and I'm coming to work, and I'm I'm gonna kill someone.

Jeff Simpson: 12:16

That's unheard of. Cripple. And and we are we're paid to do a job. We're paid to put our lives on the line, but the citizens are who we work for. So, really, it would cripple citizen safety.

Jeff Simpson: 12:27

Citizen safety first and foremost and officer safety, and it's things like that of nature, what's going on are already hurting the profession.

Betsy Smith: 12:35

Do you think that, in moving forward into 2025 with a a a new Republican administration in Washington DC, do you think the American law enforcement officer is gonna see improvements in the way that, that they are observed, the way that they are protected, the way that they are perceived? What's your thoughts on that?

Jeff Simpson: 13:02

Oh, boy. I'll make this quick. I can remember the pendulum swinging when I was on the street when Obama got elected. He was the 1st president in u US history that I can remember. I was born in 74.

Jeff Simpson: 13:13

It said the police officer acted stupidly. I met with that officer at the first convention when at the top, it's trickle down effect. As soon as he said that, you could feel the vibe on the street go down. The department of justice, the Ferguson effect. Then I can remember when Trump took over.

Jeff Simpson: 13:29

We actually felt there was a sense of safeness, not that, hey. We're gonna go out here and do something wrong and be okay with it. That's a myth, but we could fill the pendulum swing back to where everything's supported at the top. When the top man is supporting the police, that flows downward. I I was able to meet president Trump a few times.

Jeff Simpson: 13:48

1 is the vice president, and the first thing he said to me was death penalty for cop killers. All life is precious, but I think what he was saying is if you're going to kill a cop, then who won't you kill? So you need to set a a high standard for human life, which is all pressers. But I'm hoping with the DOJ changes in there, that there will be a positive effect, and it needs to be from the top down. So I'm very, very optimistic.

Jeff Simpson: 14:15

There's some things I'd like to see change, but, yes, I really do believe so. But I don't think police overnight are gonna be because we still have a lot of prosecutors. I don't think it's gonna change the issue. I don't know how you legislate that until you vote these people out. But I don't think officers are still gonna be in confident with their job and their work product being followed up on.

Jeff Simpson: 14:35

I don't think that's gonna change overnight, and I don't know if that'll ever change, to be honest with you.

Betsy Smith: 14:40

Do you think that having someone more pro police, at at the helm of the Department of Justice is gonna be helpful to the American law enforcement officer?

Jeff Simpson: 14:52

A 110%. Absolutely. They will be slower to react to political indictments. They'll be slower to react politically and inject themselves in the policing. One of the things I've said that the most dangerous thing to law enforcement, to to officer safety, and citizen safety is politics and policing.

Jeff Simpson: 15:12

And the head of the DOJ needs to not inject themselves politically into law enforcement. Lady Justice should be blind, and she's become not blind. That blind has been taken off. And I've seen the the DOJ weaponize the criminal justice system not only on our president, but I've seen it weaponized against police, and that's what needs to stop. So your answer is yes, slowly but surely.

Jeff Simpson: 15:36

Yes. And it is critical that the person in charge sends the right message.

Betsy Smith: 15:43

You know, with the the the advent of social media, I mean, we've had Facebook for, what, 20 years. But now with with Twitter, with x, Instagram, True Social, you know, Reddit. I could go on and on and on. We've seen police officers punished simply for liking a post or for posting their own political opinion. You know, we saw this after the death of Michael Brown and then, of course, after 2020, after the death of George Floyd.

Betsy Smith: 16:17

I mean, we saw all kinds of things happen. Talk about that.

Jeff Simpson: 16:21

You have to be very careful. I follow the case law on this, and it's almost freedom of speech. Just watch what you say, especially when you're a police officer. You gotta be very critical there. It kinda kinda snuck up on these departments when officers started speaking out.

Jeff Simpson: 16:37

They after 2020, there was so much, I wanna say, disdain for how we were treated, and people started speaking up and out, and they're a police officer. And And a lot of them didn't even identify themselves as police officers, and they were stricken and punished and fired. I had police officers fired that I saw just for attending, January 6th. I mean, just for being just for being there. So you really gotta watch, and I'm watching this case law, and it it all depends.

Jeff Simpson: 17:07

You you really your rights as a policeman is almost like signing up to work on Uncle Sam. You sign up, and you and you it's freedom of speech, watch what you say, and you really don't have that much of a right even when you try to separate yourself from the job. I've seen post to where the person doesn't even identify themselves as a police officer. But as soon as they find out that you're a police officer, they make that link. So, really, you're you you've lost your freedoms, on a civil basis, individual rights basis to speak freely in this country as a policeman.

Betsy Smith: 17:43

You know, there's a there's this misnomer that the reason police unions exist is to protect bad cops and keep them on the job. Will you explain to people that phenomenon and and your thoughts on that?

Jeff Simpson: 18:01

I'll try to explain it as simply as possible. Anybody, even if you're not unionized, even you you have a a a work work book place, a manual, right, of policies, even if you're not unionized. In unions and ours, we have a contract. It's negotiated. It's it's an agreement between you and your entity, your municipality on how you will operate.

Jeff Simpson: 18:23

If you break that contract, then it's null and void, and there's consequences. Sometimes there's consequences for management. Sometimes there's consequences for police. We negotiate in good faith to where if there is a bad policeman, as far as let's just use in a general term, just discipline with your child. If your child gets into the cookie jar, you're not gonna spank them and ground them for 6 weeks and write and take away their college education fund.

Jeff Simpson: 18:49

It's progressive. You know, the first time it's gonna be no. The second time, today's world, but it would be me. It'd be a smack on the finger. 3rd time you might get grounded.

Jeff Simpson: 18:58

What happens is is the strength of a collecting bargaining agreement lies with management's willingness to enforce it. So what they do is they break policy. Management doesn't act correctly, and it's just basically like any jurisdiction has their, code of justice, their their rules and regulations. We have to follow it for the criminals. Our our our Ohio revised code, you have it in Arizona.

Jeff Simpson: 19:22

You have to follow the rules or the case is no good. It's not a gotcha. Same thing with our contract. That's our that's our revised codes. That's our rule of law.

Jeff Simpson: 19:30

And if you don't follow those, therefore, that kicks off a grievance. And I don't want to say it gives the union an opportunity, but it is a it's a throw the the the talent that there's a file that you didn't correct this officer or you didn't follow a policy appropriately. And then you'll have management say, oh, you know, the police union say bad officers. That's the last thing we want. We want those officers out.

Jeff Simpson: 19:54

We wanted it weighted out. I've had candid conversations with management telling them how to get rid of an officer and where they've overstepped and just follow what you signed. But, no, that couldn't be further from the most. One bad cop makes us look all bad, but there's a big difference with being a bad cop and a cop making a mistake.

Betsy Smith: 20:13

I gotta switch gears for just a second. What tell me tell everybody. What has your faith meant to you getting through a long police career in a very busy city? And then what does it mean to you on into retirement?

Jeff Simpson: 20:32

My faith has meant everything to me. On my Twitter, I I only got on it when I became a when I made we have vice president, executive vice president, and president. And I thought that it was my job to speak without fear of self preservation, not poking the tiger, but speaking up and out because that's where we make mistakes. We don't back up things. And I had on there, loves Jesus, and I have actually been, I will say, persecuted for that.

Jeff Simpson: 20:59

Does all his members love Jesus? I've had judges say that. I've had other citizens say that. I've had the NAACP say that. Christ is everything.

Jeff Simpson: 21:09

He has protected me on every run. Even when I think he has let me down, he hasn't. And one thing I've worked on personally is not to carry Christ in the suitcase. I don't pull him out when I need him and open him up. He's good all the time.

Betsy Smith: 21:22

Amen. Jeff, where can people find you and follow you?

Jeff Simpson: 21:25

You could find me the easiest is that past president. It's on Twitter. That's where I do most of my talking. I'll take DMs as long as they don't look crazy, and I've given out my cell phone number for years. It's 740-739-1594.

Jeff Simpson: 21:40

I live just outside of Columbus, Ohio, with my wife. I try to keep quiet and get a lot of calls, still give a lot of advice, but, I'm not gonna stop fighting, and I'm searching for my next chapter. And I always stick up for the American police officer and, do what's right.

Betsy Smith: 21:57

Jeff Simpson, you are the epitome of a life of selfless service, and we can't thank you enough for spending time with us today. And if you would like more information about the National Police Association, visit us at nationalpolice.org.

Narrator: 22:14

Every day, the brave men and women of law enforcement put their lives on the line to keep us safe. But they need our help to continue their mission. Activist politicians, progressive prosecutors, the ACLU, and the rest of the anti police forces receive millions in donations from extremist pro criminal elements like George Soros and Woke corporations. The National Police Association is fighting them in courts around the country, including the United States Supreme Court, defending officers who are being attacked for doing their jobs. Additionally, the National Police Association works year round to pass tough on crime legislation to put and keep criminals behind bars.

Narrator: 22:52

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