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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Liron: Well, summer's here, 35 episodes
in, and, uh, we're wrapping up.
We're not leaving, uh, so you know.
But, uh, we're gonna take a
little break, believe it or not.
Uh, and, uh, just like our kids
are on vacation, we deserve it too.
So what I-- we-- what Matt and I decided
to do… This is not a good start.
I'm gonna scrap this.
All right, let's go.
It's summer.
Everyone deserves a break, and so do we.
So we wanted to do something
a little different.
Not a greatest hits, not some clip episode
to jump the shark yet, but I also didn't
wanna choose the clips that perform best
'cause you told me that would be lazy,
and I, I, I don't want you to judge me.
So here's the kinda what we not
consider the loudest moments, but I
thought maybe the most underrated,
understated moments, just like you, Matt.
Matt: The- these, these are the
clips that helped us understand
the show we were actually making.
The deeper cuts, the moments that
when you put them next to each
other, they tell the story of what we
Liron: Yeah, when we started Chasing
the Game, uh, Matt, I think we were,
oh God, more innocent than we realized.
Uh, 'cause for me, this
is like a, a curse.
I thought that I knew everything.
And we knew soccer was, in the
US was complicated, and we knew
parents were confused, 'cause
I was definitely confused.
We knew the system had too many
acronyms, things I didn't understand,
too many leagues, and too many
promises, and look where we are today
Matt: Yeah.
We were still looking for something
close to a map, and we haven't
not found, we haven't found that.
And w- we were asking,
what is the right league?
What is the right badge?
What's the right timing?
What's the right pathway?
What are parents supposed to do
when every choice sounds urgent?
And I think there's clarity in some cases,
but in others, we're still very much
seeking, and I, I don't think we're alone
Liron: heavy, uh, market research,
uh, Matt's team has decided
to call this episode The Maze.
And, um, you know, the, the more we
talked to people inside, the more
we understood that The Maze is not
just me and Matt getting confused.
It's for parents.
It's about egos, fear, desire to put
your kid in the right place, and the
pressure not to miss the window, right?
Matt: Yeah, speak- speaking of
windows, and we should unpack
this at some point, tryout season.
You know, I think we, I think we did
our, our audience a disservice by
not trying to cover tryout season.
Uh, I, I feel like having gone through
it recently that, that, that maze is
probably one of the most complicated
ones, if not the most complicated,
at least that I've experienced.
Uh, so we'll get into that.
Liron: leave it to you, leave it to you,
Matt, to, uh, start the, uh, our wrap-up,
uh, show of everything we've achieved to
remind everybody what we did not achieve.
But that's okay, no problem.
Matt: But isn't, isn't, isn't
that what keeps us up at night?
I mean, that's what keeps me up at night.
It's that one line that I missed, right?
So in this case, let's- we start
with Sean McCafferty, academy
director for the New York Red Bulls.
Sean lives inside one of
the clearest development
environments in American soccer.
But the clip we chose is not
about the glamour of the badge.
It's about fit.
It's about playing time.
It's about whether the place your
child is in actually is helping
Liron: Yeah, well, this is, uh,
uh, an impressive guest trying
not to impress anyone, and he's
just trying to calm us down.
Just, uh, take a listen.
Wow, Matt, uh, I don't know how many
wows I'm gonna say in this episode,
so I'm gonna, uh, curb that down.
Uh, th- so th- this is… This,
this clip for us was, um… It seems
obvious in the beginning, right?
Oh, you just want your kid to be happy.
Just put them somewhere where
they're happy, somewhere where
they play, somewhere where they
get the attention they need.
But we don't always do it, right?
Our decisions are sometimes challenged
'cause as parents, we get blinded and just
think how the kids feel about these badges
Matt: Yeah.
I, you know, I was smiling listening
to it, and it sounds, uh, it,
it, it, it's very altruistic.
And I just don't know
how real it is, candidly.
Uh, and I… Look, I also don't
think… Sure, are there, are there
thousands of parents who think and
want their kids to be professionals?
Yes.
I don't think that's the majority of
the way that parents are thinking about
it, and even those there- even those
parents still want their kids to be
in what they deem to be or what their
kid deems to be, you know, the best
environment, whatever best is, right?
Where they're truly developing as
players, where they have a chance
to be, you know, a great player at
a great club and potentially play
in college or whatever it may be.
But I think a lot of this goes back
to the commitment of time and the
commitment of dollars, right, that goes
to it, that i- if you're gonna commit
all of those things, then why would you
want your kid to be in an environment
where the level doesn't matter, right?
Where the, they're just happy.
What does happy look like?
I mean, doesn't, don't you, don't
we want our kids to be pushed?
Don't we want our kids to push themselves?
So I think that's where
the, the friction is
Liron: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's true,
but a lot, a lot of times, I mean, I can
only speak for myself initially when,
especially when they're young, I th- I
think it's just difficult to be realistic
really where your kid stands in, in
the ladder or the pyramid, and I think
that's, that becomes much clearer when
they're at U14 and 15, and now it's easy
for us to, to look back and say that.
But I think that's what he
brings up, but, uh, you're right.
E- easier said than done,
especially for, for parents who
have so much skin in the game.
Um, the next clip is with Andrew May.
Uh, Andrew worked across-- Uh,
Andrew worked at Chivas USA, LA
Galaxy, Real Salt Lake, LAFC.
I mean, French Football Federat- Whatever.
Way more than I have ever done,
and he's seen talent he's seen-
Matt: it's a tough
Liron: He's,
I…
Matt: so hard on, don't be so hard on
Liron: You're right.
I mean, you know, the, the, the,
his resume's not as impressive.
Uh, he's, he's been, he's seen kids
go through serious environments,
and that's what, uh, you and I were
trying to focus on in that episode.
And, uh, he talked a little bit
about timing and status and how
it can distort a parent's vision
Matt: Yeah, we chose this clip
because it gets at the ego trap.
Not in a cruel way.
Andrew knows parents care.
Andrew's also a parent and has gone
through different experiences with
his three kids, but he also knows that
caring can turn into chasing proof
Liron: Yep.
Here's Andrew
Yeah, we, we had some
pretty good guests, huh?
Matt: Yeah.
Andrew, Andrew was amazing, and he's
like, and he's such a low-key guy.
Uh, like I think in this case, he's
really separating ambition from status.
Ambition asks, "What does this
player need?" Status asks,
"What does this say about us?"
Liron: I mean, this was… I
think I started making a, a, a
turn in this part of the season.
Uh, I'm talking all soccer related, okay?
The, uh… I was trying to kinda think,
Matt: That, that's a, that's a whole other
Liron: I was trying to kinda
think of, of, of my kid.
Like, the m- the more serious he
gets, the more my identity within
his journey started to separate.
I don't know if that makes sense, so
Matt: Hmm.
That, that, that's profound.
But, but, but, but, but I, but I think
it's really true, and I, I, I've struggled
with this a ton, and I look back,
uh, aside from this hopefully being,
uh, informative to the thousands and
thousands and thousands of supporters
Liron: missed 1,000, but yes
Matt: it, it's been, it's been, uh,
it's been therapeutic in a lot of
ways, but also just retrospective in
the sense of like I-- there's so many
mistakes I feel like I've made along
the way, and there's parts and moments
during the journey where you feel it.
But when you think about it as a
collect- as a collective, um, and how
we're all involved, but me specifically,
I think that's been a big part.
Like pushing when maybe the
passion wasn't there the way I
saw it, but I saw what could be.
And I think y- you're right.
I think I'm starting to get into
the next phase of this where, where
you are with, with Lavie, and where
I'm getting with Miles, where it's
like, oh, okay, this is actually…
This is what it's gonna be, and
he's gonna drive it and own it, and,
um, we need to be okay with that
Liron: No, let's talk about profound.
Wow.
Your English is better than
mine, so you have, uh, uh, other
words you could use, but, uh, you
said altruistic, now profound.
I'm, wow, I'm overwhelmed.
The… You know, so what I did was
I, on the next clip, I actually chose
one that's been one of our… Here, I,
I'm, it's against what I presented this
episode in, but I just couldn't help it.
This, this was a, a big, uh, pivot
for me, but it's a, it's a clip
that was very popular for us.
This is with, uh, Ditmer De Jong, the
scout and coach at Cambuur in Holland.
He talks about this
idea of self-regulation.
Uh, it's kind of a, a strange
non-flashy phrase, and I don't
know, maybe it was just literal
translation from another language.
And it's hard to put like a pinpoint
on why this was so powerful for
me, but, uh, I think it's one of
the most important ideas that we
were able to introduce in this show
Matt: Because if the player never
learns to look inward and ask, "What
do I need to improve? What do I need
to do to improve?" Let me go back.
Because if the player never learns to
look inward and ask, "What do I need to
do to improve?" Then everyone else is
Liron: Oh, yeah
Matt: except the person playing the game
Liron: I'm crazy about this clip.
They're kinda good at soccer, right?
Uh I mean, th- th- this kind,
this kind of… This is an idea of
almost why this show exists, right?
And counter to what you've always said,
it's not just about me having time off
my family and locked in a basement.
It actually is a viral… It
is not a viral moment, but
it is a viral moment for us.
It's a correction.
It's about development.
This is… Yo- you always say, "What's the
definition of development?" Here you go.
I just gave it to you.
It's not just adults giving information
to kids and telling them what to do.
It's can a kid learn and
develop on their own?
Matt: Well, look, and n- not that Europe
isn't very, very complicated, but I'm not
sure it's, uh, as complica- uh, hold on.
Let me just scrap that.
And it also complicates the Europe
conversation because parents
sometimes imagine Eur- uh, Europe
as a magic answer, as an end result.
Put the kid in a better football
culture and everything changes.
If he's not a rocket, he
becomes a rocket, and I think
we know that that's not the case
Liron: So speaking of Europe, uh, let's
keep traveling as many of you are now.
Uh, Filippo Giovannoli,
he… I love that guy.
Um, he help, he helped us…
Matt: They do!
Liron: how they're gonna win duels.
I was like, "Duels?" And then now
all I do is try to win duels now, and
not to, not to disappoint Filippo.
I, I text him how many duels I win a week.
Matt: But that's like you and the barista,
Liron: that's right.
Matt: you and the bartender.
Liron: many magical moments, uh,
Giovanni helped us challenge this
idea that, of fantasy, right?
Uh, he's been in development
in many environments, and the
reason I chose this clip is he
doesn't go with the easy argument.
He doesn't say Europe has talent, America
does not, which is the cheapest, easiest,
laziest way to speak about soccer
Matt: Yeah, Filippo says the, the
difference is not just talent.
It, it is what the culture and environment
demand from that talent every single day.
And in fact, he makes the argument
that the talent's very much there,
if not even greater in a lot of
Liron: Yep, curious.
Matt: The confidence that Filippo
exudes makes me feel confident.
He also helps us get away
from lazy comparisons.
The point is not that
American kids cannot play.
The point is that the development
environment has to ask better
questions more frequently
Liron: Yeah.
Uh, and, uh, maybe we'll see the
results in this, in this World Cup.
Uh, so I, I… A- as we pivot along,
uh, in the Maze, you can't talk about
Maze without rankings, social media,
lists, stats, highlights, exposure,
who follows who, who reposts who.
Man, I dread that, so
this is our next guest
Matt: Well, David Rodriguez from
Footy Access understands that world.
So do you, Liron
That, that is why this clip matters.
He is not pretending
visibility is meaningless.
It can open doors, but he is
warning parents not to confuse
the door with the player or the
Liron: Yeah.
Um, I guess ranking can matter,
um, unfortunately for me.
But, uh, we can't have
the kid be defined by it
Before you, you give your words of
wisdom, it, it's hard to n- not be
obsessed with rankings when, uh, after,
uh, every episode I refresh our, uh,
host, uh, statistics to see how many
people have listened to the episode.
Oh, well, I mean, yeah,
I guess you're right.
Uh, the, you know, I mean,
rankings are not fake, right?
Uh, maybe the, the, the echo
around them is fake, but a ranking,
I guess, means something, and
this is what makes it powerful.
Um, it could open a door,
and it makes people notice.
It's unavoidable
Matt: But, but they are very, very
subjective and they can be, uh, a
demoralizing way to measure a child,
but they are a snapshot inside an
ecosystem that rewards visibility.
And they do not tell you
whether the player is learning,
adapting, solving, or growing.
But I did walk away from this episode
with David thinking he, who does have
a platform, um, is very much doing this
and looking at this through the right
lens, and I don't think, necessarily
think that's the case elsewhere.
Um, but his perspective I thought
was, was game-changing in a lot of
ways in how he framed it and how
Liron: Yeah.
And, and our, our, our next, our
next g- our next, the next clip we
chose was, uh, was from Jose Campos.
And so just like you have rankings that
are about visibility, this guy's all
about where do you stand within my system?
And this is about level, competing to be
the best, being in the right challenge,
being ready for it, and not winning
the wrong game, winning the right game
Matt: Yeah, we chose this
because it gives parents a better
question than where are we ranked?
The better question is, is
this level telling the truth?
Liron: Oh, boy.
That's, uh…
Matt: Well, th- th- that idea,
the right level tells the
truth, came up again and again.
A soft environment can
create false confidence.
A brutal environment can crush the kid.
The right environment gives
us enough truth to grow.
And just one anecdote on this episode
specifically, I know for a fact that
it became the driver of a kid moving
an environment where he was the player
at a high level, the captain of his
club, the team rather, to move and
push himself to go to the next level.
Because I think that
Jose said it best, right?
If you don't push, if you don't see where
you truly are, you don't know what is
ultimately best and what you can become
Liron: Well, it's hard to believe, but
the first time in this, uh, couple seasons
we've done, I, I have nothing to add.
Really.
Um,
Matt: Impossible
Liron: there it is.
Um, next, uh, the next clip we picked
was from, uh, Tom Bowen, the Long
Island Soccer Club academy director.
By the way, did I mention that Jose was
the academy director for Orlando City?
Did I mention that?
Okay, I don't think
Matt: I don't know.
But his, his, his jersey
Liron: it all, yeah.
Uh, Tom Bowen, the director of Long
Island Soccer Club, assistant coach at
Hofstra, and about to be part of one of
the biggest soccer projects in, um, in
the New York area with the, uh, Island FC.
He talked a little bit about
parents misreading the truth at
younger ages and misreading signals
Matt: Yeah.
Ear- early physical dominance, the U13
who looks unstoppable, or, or the U9
for that matter who looks unstoppable.
The team that wins because of size, speed,
and maturity, or even being over-coached.
It can look like development,
but sometimes it is just
biology getting there first
Liron: The reason we, we put it
in here is because it's about
interpretation, right, Matt?
We said earlier in the episode
interpreting, uh, the right club, the
subjectivity of rankings, and now it's
the subjectivity of a physical shape of
a kid at a young age, and what coaches
do and why they choose what they choose.
Uh, and as parents, it's hard for
us to see the future because our
kids are in the present, right?
And their body is in the present
Matt: But it is easy for us to look at the
Liron: Yeah.
Wow.
Profound.
Matt: and see it, and, and see, and
see, and see how ridiculous some of
the decisions that we've made have
been, um, knowing now what we know.
So a- after all of that from Tom and
the fit, the status, the ownership,
the culture, the rankings, the
level, the physical maturity,
we still end with uncertainty.
But we do our best to wade through it.
Liron: it's so, uh… I decided to,
the last clip here, to get out a little
bit of the, uh, seriousness of it all.
Matt: Dude, no way.
Come on, we can't end with this.
Liron: drop it.
Matt: No, no.
We can't.
But, like, she's not soccer.
Liron: so let's close.
All right,
Matt: like, we, we had her on, but I
Liron: so let's close 'cause
I have her somewhere else.
We'll skip her too.
Okay
so we're closing.
Well, what better way to finish the maze
as, uh, Matt's marketing people would like
me to repeat many times in this episode.
Look, uh, you and I chose these clips
because each one of them tells a little
bit of a different story, but, and
they, they're not opposite, right?
Isn't that… That's what's mind-blowing.
They support each other, and they
create a cohesive story, and they
force us to be just a little bit more
honest and like you said, looking
back at decisions that we made
Matt: Yeah.
I mean, fit matters.
Patience, patience seems to matter most
in every single situation or environment.
The player has to own the work.
Rankings are limited.
The right level truly matters.
Early dominance fools us over and over
and over again, and even then, the
game will not give us complete control
Liron: Yeah, and, uh, this, uh, again,
will, will, uh, help me not refresh those,
uh, those statistics of, uh, of listeners
for the week, and it'll make me less angry
at everybody that I see in the street.
Why are you not listening to Chasing the
Game, youth soccer in America person?
Uh, look, next week, uh, we're gonna move
away from the maze, and we're gonna talk
about money, the cost, time, sacrifice,
access, and what, what are we doing?
What are we even paying for?
Matt: I think we're paying for a lot.
Liron: paying for a lot.
Matt: We are paying for
Liron: see what we get in return.
All right.
Matt: Yeah.
Well, that's a different
Liron: All right, Matt,
I'll see you, uh, next week
Matt: Thank you, Liron