Ep 3: From $20 Million in Debt and Homeless to Starting Over & Finding Love | James Ray & Bersabeh Ray

Show Notes

What do you do when life completely falls apart?

In this powerful conversation, Adrien Blackwell sits down with James Ray, featured in The Secret, and Bersabeh Ray to discuss resilience, reinvention, relationships, purpose, and what it takes to rebuild your life after devastating setbacks.

Together they explore the lessons learned through adversity, the role relationships play in our success, why many people repeat the same patterns in love and life, and how healing unresolved emotional wounds can transform every area of your life. James shares his journey of losing everything and rebuilding from the ground up, while Bersabeh reveals how deep healing and integration can help people break free from old patterns and create lasting change.

If you've ever felt stuck, lost, overwhelmed, or ready for a fresh start, this episode is a reminder that your past does not define your future and that it's never too late to begin again.

Note: This conversation was recorded on January 16, 2024, approximately one year before James Arthur Ray's passing on January 3, 2025. 

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 The views and experiences shared in this episode are those of the guest and are intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. This content does not constitute medical, psychological, or therapeutic advice. Please consult a qualified professional for any health concerns. That said, we believe in the power of what's possible. 

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SPEAKER_00: Making Miracles
Happen masterclass with host

celebrity healer Adrian
Blackwell and guest James Arthur

Ray from The Secret Movie and
Versabar Ray.

Hey everybody and welcome to
Making Miracles Happen.

We have very special guests here
today.

Yes, we have two of them.

I'm very excited about this
because as we look at the work

that these two amazing people
do, I, you know, I looked at the

website and I saw all of these
amazing testimonials that I

really want to get into.

But first of all, we need our
guests to introduce themselves.

So can you go ahead and
introduce yourself and just tell

people what it is that you do?

SPEAKER_02: Well, we we do we
work with individuals and or and

businesses that want to create a
significant business while

simultaneously, and this is key,
have meaningful relationships

and have a fulfilling life.

And unfortunately, Adrienne, one
of the things we find is that a

lot of times it's either or.

And it doesn't have to be either
or.

It should be both and.

And so meaningful relationships
and a fulfilling life, as well

as a significant business.

And so we do a variety of things
in that area.

We do business consulting work,
obviously.

We do quite a bit of work with
relationships because we've got

quite a bit of experience with
that, actually, through through

war, quite frankly.

And we do one-on-one intensive
work and and so forth.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, awesome.

So this is what I I found.

I have followed you for a really
long time.

I actually saw you in person
once, James, and it that was

amazing.

And I brought my whole entire
family to see you in person.

And it's and it's amazing what
you teach, right?

And you're helping people just
get out of the limitations that

they've lived in.

But I was really fascinated to
go to your website and see that

people were talking about, thank
you for helping me find myself.

You know, thank you for helping
me make all of this new money

that's coming in now.

Some people were talking about
they're sober after working with

the two of you.

And then I saw people saying
that they've released weight

after we're working with you.

And I was like, this is a lie.

This isn't just what this isn't
just about money.

This isn't just about
relationships.

This is people changing their
whole entire lives.

And where I really love this
conversation is when I talk to

the people that I work with, I'm
like, I want to work with people

who want it all.

Not just like money is bad, but
I want love.

That's what I want to focus on.

Bring me love.

Or people who are just like, uh,
you know, uh, I really need

money, so I'm gonna give up on
love.

And I'm like, screw that, like
we want it all, right?

And that's what you two are
about.

So I'd like to really dig into
that.

So, first of all, can you just
tell me how are you helping

people have all of these
different types of testimonials?

SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, go ahead,
Marjorie.

SPEAKER_04: I just love your
energy, I have to say that it's

like it's vibrant, it's very
cool.

Well, how are we doing?

Well, we we believe in doing it
in all areas of your life, so we

don't just do one, we believe in
the the spectrum of the wheel,

which is you got spiritual,
mental, emotional, relational,

and financial.

So that all, you know, they work
together simultaneously.

And when when we work with
individuals, they might come to

you and say, you know, I have
this issue in my romantic life.

I keep making the same mistakes,
or it's choosing the same

person, just different hair
color, different, you know, but

it's the same repeating pattern,
you can say.

SPEAKER_02: Same guy, different
name, different job.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

So then what happens is that we
go into that, and then we uh

find out, well, this is related
to something that happened to

you maybe in your childhood, and
is causing you to have these

behaviors now, which not only
come out in your relationship,

but they come out in your job.

They come out in not romantic
relationships, but with your

friends and how you're with your
family and your co-workers and

so forth.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you always
show up as you.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: And and everything
affects everything.

Everything, everything,
everything counts.

There's there's nothing that
doesn't count.

And so we we look at the full,
as Bearsabus said, we look at

the full spectrum.

And one of the things that we
find to be the greatest problem,

and I and it doesn't, I don't
care if it's if it's financial,

business, relational, spiritual,
uh, physical, emotional, the

greatest problem is lack of
integration.

People are fragmented.

And and so the work that we do
really looks at, and it doesn't

matter whether we're working
with a CEO.

Um, we just recently worked with
an$80 million company, and we

were working, you know,
one-on-one with the CEO and his

his executive team.

It doesn't matter if it's that
or if it's a one-on-one with an

entrepreneur or an individual
looking for their greatest

relationship, romantic
relationship.

We we look at the full spectrum,
and as Bercius said, there's

there's five dimensions:
financial, relational, mental,

physical, spiritual, which I
wrote about all the way back in

2006 in my New York Times
bestseller, Harmonic Wealth.

And it still holds true today,
all these years later, because

if you only look at one facet,
you don't have a diamond.

You know, a diamond only comes
from multiple facets, if that if

you follow the analogy.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

And I want to rewind, I want to
go back into the past.

I'd like to know from each one
of you how did you get started

on this path of helping people?

SPEAKER_02: Well, Bearsiva's
story longer than mine.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Bearsible, poor Bearsaba is on a
midlife show, and and you know,

I'm I'm so much closer to
midlife than than she is.

You know, I I I made a decision
a long time ago, Adrian, just as

an aside, that that for whatever
reason, and we'll see, time will

tell, that I was gonna live to
be 125.

So that means I'm in midlife
right now, okay?

Because because I and I'm
working really hard to make that

happen.

But Bearsma is not quite there
yet.

But nonetheless, nonetheless,
how do we get started?

I I've been doing this since
Moses, you know.

You saw me way back when I I
literally started at ATT School

of Business as a as a sales, a
salesperson, and then I was a

sales trainer, and then I went
to ATT School of Business as a

C-suite consultant, started my
own business in '92, and you

know, have been at it ever
since.

And so that's Bearsaba.

I'll give you the answer, and
then she can give you hers, but

I'll give you my answer, how she
got in this into this business

with a lot of arm twisting from
me.

She got into this business with
a lot of arm twisting because

she was always like, I'm a
behind the scenes person, you

know, I I don't talk on mic.

And and now she's an incredible
intuitive and healer that just,

you know, when I need something
worked on, I she's my go-to.

So so anyway, I've been in this
business for a long, long time,

starting in in the corporate
arena, then moving into the

entrepreneurial, and then you
saw me.

I would imagine maybe it was at
a harmonic wealth weekend, the

two-day event years ago,
possibly, or or something of

that nature.

And and I've been at this for a
long, long time.

And you know, it's interesting
because sometimes people say to

me, Well, what are you going to
do next?

I'm doing it.

I this is what God sent me here
to do.

And I know that with absolute
clarity.

And that that's something we can
talk about too, because when you

know what your purpose is, you
don't quit.

And God knows I've had a lot of
opportunities to quit.

I've had some really tough
times, as has Bearsabon, and

I'll let her talk for herself.

But hopefully that answers your
question from my perspective.

Sweetie, how would you say you
got into this business?

Would you agree with me, or do
you have a different opinion?

SPEAKER_04: Say I was the in the
beginning, I started out maybe

the person that was looking to
something more and looking to I

was having my midlife crisis
because I had just come out of a

divorce.

So a very bad divorce.

And I kind of got on this path
where I'm like, I need to, you

know, start doing things
differently.

There's something not right
here, there's something more,

and this important.

So I got into it by being the
example of doing the work and

cleaning up and accepting some
of the yeah, I wouldn't say

gifts.

I think we all have them is
intuitive gifts, and it was

something that I kind of I came
in with and I didn't accept it.

It was too much, and I didn't
understand it.

So I got into a lot of bad
habits and you know, things you

don't, you know, people struggle
with drug abuse, alcohol abuse,

smoking cigarettes, and so
forth, and being with the wrong

crowds.

So when I finally cleaned up, I
learned how to handle and yeah,

work with what you know what my
gifts are, and that's how you

know it it mixes well.

It worked.

SPEAKER_02: It works really
well.

SPEAKER_04: You know, she's so I
I would I would never ask my

clients to do something I have
not done.

SPEAKER_02: She she escaped from
Iran as a child across the

desert in the dead of night at
the risk of being killed.

I mean not a normal childhood.

Not a normal childhood.

She grew up with bombs dropping
around her house when when Iran

was at war.

And so a lot of childhood
trauma.

And both of us, when I said that
we built our relationship

through war, I mean that
literally in the sense that

we've both been through some
incredible challenges.

You know, it doesn't take much
to look at to find my history on

the internet.

And I have been through some
incredible challenges and

difficulties and fallen flat on
my face so many times and

learned so many lessons.

But here's here's what I know,
Adrian.

He or she who falls and gets
back up is stronger and wiser

than he or she who never fell.

So my encouragement in today's
world, which is very, very

turbulent and very disruptive
right now, is keep the faith,

get back up, keep going.

There's a bigger power in charge
than than just you.

And when you have faith in that
and you stay plugged into that,

you will you will learn and grow
and and experience things that

you could never experience
otherwise.

SPEAKER_00: No, I love that.

How did you to meet?

SPEAKER_02: All right, so so I
don't love stalk you, don't say

that.

She did stalk me on Facebook.

But she saw me present.

I I was away for about four
years, and and I don't know if

you know the story, but but I
do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: I don't know how
much the audience knows, but

yeah.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm an open
book.

I mean, I can go into it or I
could not go into it, but but

no, you feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna give
you the floor.

SPEAKER_02: I'm comfortable.

So I was I was at the top of my
game in 2009.

I I had been really, really
blessed.

I was on Oprah numerous times
and Larry King, and I was a New

York Times bestseller and Inc.

500 inductee and and so forth.

And and it all came to a
crashing fall when my team, my

company, and I conducted an
event in Sedona in 2009, and at

the end of a five-day retreat,
we had we had an experiential

learning opportunity that went
incredibly wrong.

And and without going into all
the details, just for sake of

time, Adrian, you know, three
people died in a sweat lodge,

and it it just broke my heart.

You know, it broke my heart.

If if you've ever lost anyone
that you care about, you know

how that feels.

And some days it was just more
than I thought I could handle,

but life had more for me to
handle.

And so the state of Arizona came
after me and said it was

intentional, which is crazy,
literally crazy.

You know.

SPEAKER_00: But that's not good
for business.

I can't imagine how that's
intentional.

SPEAKER_02: No, I and and that
you you're ahead of me.

I mean, there's not one business
person here today who would

intentionally harm his or her
clients and think they're gonna

stay in business.

And and so it was an it was a
horrible accident and it broke

my heart.

And yet they came after me and
charged me with manslaughter,

which is intentional harm.

And and so I lost everything.

You know, I went from being the
hero on on Oprah and Larry King

and the Today Show to being the
villain.

And so, you know, they one of
the quotes I really love from

the Dark Knight movie says, you
either die a hero or you live

long enough to become the
villain.

And and it's true.

I mean, I I became the villain,
and and the media just started

hammering me, hammering me.

And and long short, I went to
trial, they acquitted me of

manslaughter.

The the the jury couldn't find
one streak of evidence of

intentional harm.

But what was included in that
was a lesser inclusive called

negligence.

And and negligence means that I
overlook something.

I own that, all right.

I wish I hadn't.

Negligence says I could have
prepared better.

Yeah, God, I wish I would have.

Negligence says that that things
could have been done

differently, and and there's not
a day that goes by that I don't

wish that occurred.

And so I own that.

And and they wanted 30 years,
which means I wouldn't be here

today, but I ended up getting
two years, which felt like a

gift from 30.

And I went, I went to prison.

I came out in 2013.

I was standing in the middle of
the desert in Sedona.

I didn't even know Bearsaba.

I was I was totally alone.

I was homeless.

I lost everything.

My my savings, my my home, my
friends and colleagues that at

that were at the event, which
was the most important thing, my

reputation, all of it.

And I was standing in the
desert, and on top of that, I

was$20 million in debt.

20 million in 2013.

So that was 10 years ago.

And so I had to really get my
head on.

I had to really say, what am I
here to do?

And I, you know, God help me
direct me because what am I

going to do with this new
chapter of my life?

And I was really jaded and I was
really frustrated, as you might

imagine.

I I the system, I I just kept
thinking, Adrian, you know,

what's going on in the media
today, and so many people who

believe that the media is is not
telling us the truth and they're

hiding things from us.

That's not surprising to me
because I've experienced that.

I know that.

You know, I was a precursor to a
lot of that.

And so so it's hard.

It's a hard pill to swallow when
you've been told things are a

certain way for a long time, and
then all of a sudden they're not

that way.

A lot easier when you grow up in
Iran with a country when it's

expected.

When it's expected that they're
gonna tell you things that

aren't true all the time, you
know.

But but this was America.

And and and so anyway, I was
really jaded and really

frustrated, and yet here I am,
because I had to, I said, I

don't want anything to do with
personal performance, I don't

want anything to do with what
I'd done before.

I'm not I'm not going back to
that.

I'm gonna, you know, go do
something completely different.

Well, God said, No, no, you're
not going to, you know, because

because this is this is going to
make you better.

SPEAKER_03: And it has.

SPEAKER_02: It has.

You know, Bears of has told me
numerous times if you were that

guy before, you would not be my
husband.

And and so, you know, I I can
give that, yeah.

Yeah, I look back and I don't
know what your experience was.

You said it was great coming to
see me live, but I I got to a

point where I mean I had over a
million people from 146

countries around the world
coming to my two-day weekend,

harmonic wealth, and asking me
how to have a better life.

Well, I got caught up kind of in
the hubris, you know.

Hey, I've done all this work and
all this study, and boy, I'm

I've I kind of got my stuff
together.

And then life goes, oh, really?

Then try this and see if you got
your stuff together.

And and so it's really it
humbled me greatly.

And when you face these
incredible challenges, which

many people are facing right
now, it opens the heart because

you have to come back to the
heart and say, what's really

important to me?

What's my life really about?

And what am I gonna do with this
experience and with this

learning?

And and that's so anyway, that's
that's my story.

And there's there's a whole lot
of deep details to it.

I I don't know.

My latest book, The Business of
Redemption, I kind of talk about

all my experiences and all my
learnings in there.

But at the end of the day, I
know I'm a better man and I'm a

better person because uh it's
I've been tenderized, you know.

If you ever eat meat, you know,
you got to tenderize it.

Well, I've I've been tenderized
quite a bit, and and it's made

me a better person and it it
brought great gifts into my

life.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, and so you you
got out and you were homeless.

And how does she come into the
picture?

SPEAKER_02: When I was homeless
and twenty million dollars in

debt, which tells you it wasn't
for the money, it wasn't you

know, when I would when I was
worth north of twenty million

dollars, which I was at one
point, on you know, supposedly,

but that's a whole nother story.

You know, one of the things
that's that's a curse about

that, Adrian, is you never know
if someone's with you for what

you can give them and do for
them, or if they're with you for

you.

Well, I know for a fact that
Bearsaba is with me for me

because because I was homeless
and and when when we met, and

and I I really didn't have other
much to give her other than my

learning and my experience and
my love.

So um from there, you know, from
there, how did we meet?

SPEAKER_04: Well, he he had a
speaking gig, it was his first

speaking gig back, and I was
part of some networking company.

I can't, I don't know if I
should say a name, I don't know

who they were.

I forget, it's a while ago.

So I and they had said, Oh,
we're gonna have a speaker come

from the secret, and it was like
supposed to be kept a secret.

I'm like, Oh, that might be fun.

I'm gonna go check it out.

So I went, and of course, that's
when they were filming his

documentary, and he comes in and
I see all these cameras.

I'm like, who is that?

I kept looking, and he had long
hair and a goatee, so I didn't

recognize.

I'm looking at him and he
smiled.

I'm like, Oh, it's the genie
guy.

I didn't know his name.

So that's how it kind of
started.

And it was I reached out to him
because I was like, you know

what?

On Facebook.

On Facebook, because he stalked
me.

Yeah, I did that that's where
the stalking came.

Is I reached out to him on
Facebook to work for him because

I when he came in, it was like
this energy, you could feel it.

It came in, and I was like, ooh,
what is that?

I want some of that.

You know, that's what I went
after.

And then I had no idea any of
this happened because I was

actually even in Belgium before
the before I met him.

Well, I had just come back to
the States, no idea.

And that's how it that's how it
started.

I started working with him.

I did all of his social media
posts and graphic works is a

little bit of my background, and
and then it, you know, there

there was an attraction there.

We fought it off a bit, and
we're like, no, we can't,

because it's work, and work is
important, and that came first.

SPEAKER_02: And that's part of
our relationship too, that we

yeah, it's really important.

We were friends for three years
before before we we were

romantically involved.

And then I I believe that's the
first time it's ever been that

way in my life.

And and I believe it's vitally
important, and and that's what

we always fall back on.

We do, we're that's never gonna
go away.

It's just not.

I mean, we do everything
together.

That's true.

We literally everything
literally we work together, we

have morning coffee, morning
coffee at five AM.

We talk about our dreams from
the previous night.

We, you know, go to the gym and
work out.

We, we, I mean, we literally
Yeah.

We're we're together 24-7.

So when COVID came along, you
know, so many of our clients

were going crazy because they
couldn't go to work and they had

to be with this person they were
married to.

And and they're like, you know
what?

I don't really even like him.

I, you know, and I can't, I
can't go anywhere.

What am I gonna do?

Well, that's it's really
unfortunate.

And and so, you know, we built
this solid friendship, and and

as Barcerba said, we resisted
going into it.

I mean, I I was a commitment
phobe, I'll just admit that.

And and I'm learning so much
right now.

Yeah, no, I I really was, and
she was, and and I I had sworn

up and down when we got engaged.

My family was aghast, pleasantly
aghast, because I had sworn up

and down I was gonna be, you
know, a a lifetime bachelor.

And I really believed that, I
meant that, but she broke me

down, you know, and I'm so
grateful.

I'm really grateful, yeah, yeah.

So, but we resisted because we
didn't want to ruin the

friendship, and at that point we
had a really good business

relationship too, and we didn't
want to send that south either.

But it's it's been the greatest
gift that I've ever been given,

for sure.

SPEAKER_00: So I like to tell my
audience to get out their their

pen and paper and start taking
notes.

So hopefully they've already
done that because I completely

forgot.

But I always pinpoint the things
that I've gotten from the

interview so far.

And what I love is that when we
talk about midlife, we're

talking about sometimes
reinventing ourselves.

Maybe we are working a job that
we absolutely hate and we don't

want to do that anymore.

We're in a relationship we don't
want to be in, we don't want to

do that anymore.

We're single, we don't want to
be single anymore.

We want to change our bodies, we
want to do something different.

And so you both are are telling
the whole audience how to do

this, how you've done this.

Like, and you came out of the
depths, you know, where people,

a lot of people don't have to go
through that kind of torture,

I'll call it, to learn and get
to the other side.

We just go through a midlife
crisis, and then you know, we

find something different after
about a year and a half, and

that's about it.

But it's inspirational to say
I've I've been here, I was

homeless, and not only did I
build my business back up, but I

found love in the meantime.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And did it in a new
way in which you weren't willing

to do it before?

So you didn't got better than
you were.

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: You told that story.

Yeah.

We have a recording of it.

Um you said it very well.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I
think what's really important,

if we can if I can just address
the relationship issue, which is

so important, you know, one of
the things that Napoleon Hill

stated, and everyone knows
Napoleon Hill, of course, all

the way back in the 50s, is
that, and and of course, at that

point in time he studied men,
because that's just what you did

back in the 50s.

But but now but the principles
still hold true.

And he said that one of the
greatest challenges that he

found in the individuals he
studied not reaching their

potential was choosing the wrong
mate.

And and I I couldn't agree with
him more because your was what

wasn't you didn't your dad tell
you something about

relationships?

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he told my
dad's takeaways.

He said a woman can either make
a man or break a man.

SPEAKER_02: And when you say the
the contrary is true as well, a

man can either break a woman or
make a sure.

SPEAKER_04: You could either you
know make a queen or something

really bad.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Yeah.

What's that Baha'i quote that
who was raised Baha'i?

SPEAKER_04: It's that men and
relationship is a foundation for

well-being.

It's a bird, and in one wing is
man and the other wing is woman,

so you need both to be able to
fly.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a great
metaphor.

And and unfortunately, Adrian,
what we've found, and we've

experienced this, and I'm sure
your viewers have as well, is

that most people, if I can be
just really straightforward, get

into a relationship for two
reasons lust or proximity.

And proximity meaning, oh, I see
her at the grocery store.

I see him, you know, at the shoe
store, and he's really cute, and

and he's kind of hot and or or
whatever.

And unfortunately, lust always
wears out.

It it just does, you know.

Not to suggest that we don't
have a great sexual

relationship.

We do.

SPEAKER_00: We midlifers know
this, right?

We already know we've went
through the lust wearing out, so

we got this death.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if it if lust
doesn't transmute into love,

it's not it's not going to go
anywhere other than coexistence.

And and so many relationships
are not really relationships,

they're coexisting.

Because relationship, a
relationship is the act of

relating, and that has to be
done daily.

And so what we do work with in
relationships and and to help

rekindle those that the fire has
gone out, or those who are just

beginning.

Boy, if we can get someone who's
just beginning, that's a gift,

and that's that's a little bit
of a challenge sometimes because

when you're just beginning,
everything is great,

everything's great, you know,
and you're doing everything

right, you know, everything.

You that you just want to you're
so yeah, I I I can't wait to

text her, you know, and to call
her.

And that all I promise you that
just wears out.

It just does.

And and so, so you know, you
you've got to lay the proper

foundation, and that's what we
have.

We have a common foundation,
yeah, a common purpose.

We we have a clearly defined
purpose for our business and for

our relationship.

One of the one of the hermetic
laws of the universe is called

the law of correspondence.

And we just got done talking
about this in our podcast.

But the law of correspondence
basically says if you want to

know how to make something work,
look at something that's already

working, extract the principles,
and apply them to the new thing.

And you get the same results
because life is repeating

patterns, and even fractal
geometry tells us this.

And so if you look at a
successful business,

partnership, which which a
relationship is, it's it's a

partnership.

And so, well, what do you need
in a successful business?

Well, you need a common purpose,
a common direction.

And so we have that clearly
defined for our business as well

as our relationship.

You need common values, you need
a common vision.

Uh, vision is what we're going
to do in the world, purpose is

why we're here.

And and so you need those types
of things.

And so Beershub and I really
invest the time.

Uh, you know, for we took two
weeks at the end of the year,

yeah, and we laid out our 2023
and in our not just in our

business, but in our
relationship.

And then once a quarter we have
a check-in.

And we grade each other.

We grade each other.

It takes a whole day, and and we
grade each other.

And we look at our our we have
individual values, and we have

uh relationship values, and we
say on a scale of one to five,

how how do you how do you think
you did?

Well, I think I'm a three.

Well, I think you're a two, and
let me tell you why.

All right, and and no, we really
have those conversations, you

know.

I'm a five.

No, you're not a five.

We like to think you're you're
at 2.5, and and so so no, we

really do have those
conversations and we discuss it,

and it's it's it's a very
important part.

SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.

I mean, you skip all the you
know, unwanted arguments, and

that don't happen then, or
disagreements, or

miscommunication, all that
stuff.

SPEAKER_02: Except when I
spilled water on on your clean

floor yesterday.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was not
cool.

SPEAKER_02: There's still yeah,
let's let's just be straight up

here, guys.

We're it's not all roses and and
and unicorns.

I mean, we do have we do our
best, we do have have

disagreements, and much, much
fewer.

And when we do, they don't last
very long.

Because here's here's the other
thing that's really important.

And and we pull from the mystery
traditions quite a bit.

In the mystery traditions, it
says everything comes from one

source, and every spiritual
tradition tells us that in one

way, shape, or fashion.

Well, that one source has to
divide into two for the sake of

manifestation, and quantum
physics tells us that too.

The photon divides into the
positron and electron, and those

two create a functional third.

Now, I know that's a little
heady, so let me just tell you

how that applies to relationship
is that you have you have

Beersuba, in this case, you have
Bearsova and you have James, and

each of us have our own wants,
needs, and desires.

But then the two of us together
create a functional third, which

is called the relationship.

And the relationship has an
identity all its own.

Does that make sense to you?

Yep.

So if I'm only thinking about
me, I'm discounting the

relationship.

Or if Paris was only thinking
about her, she's discounting the

relationship.

And so the relationship is our
child, if you will.

Okay.

It's the child we've created.

It's the functional third.

And it's the same concept,
repeating patterns, law of

correspondence.

How many, how many parents look
at their child and they say,

we've got to do this for the
child, even though we want

something different?

Well, the same is true of the
relationship if you're wise.

And so, what's the best choice
for the relationship?

And if you won't go there,
you're going to run into some

real problems.

And a lot of people do, because
I mean, we've worked with

couples who the husband, you
know, for instance, all he wants

is sex, just all the time, you
know.

And she's like, Yeah, but you
look like a slob.

You don't, you know.

I want to be romance.

I want to be romance.

And and you you you dress up to
go to business meetings and you

dress, you dress like a homeless
person, nothing at home, you

know.

And and so, so how can I get
aroused when you look like a

slob?

And and so sweats, yeah, with
holes in them.

And so, so maybe, and so what we
would say in that situation,

it's a really simplistic one,
but understand the principle, is

that you got to step back and
go, okay, the sweats might be

comfortable, and I'm at home and
it's my kingdom, and I, you

know, but what's the best for
the relationship?

And so, so if the relationship
needs this, then sometimes I

need to sacrifice my wants,
needs, and desires for the sake

of the relationship.

And I love the word sacrifice
because if you trace it back,

the etymology of the word back
to its origins means to make

sacred.

And so sacrifice is laying
something of a lesser value on

the altar of life for something
of a greater value.

And again, that that holds true
in relationships, it holds true

in business, it holds true in
reinventing yourself to go back

to what you were talking about.

You know, the most recent
research, I'm kind of on my

roll.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, if you want to
stop them, you gotta cut them

off.

SPEAKER_02: But let me just say
the most recent research tells

us that every one of us, us as
well as you, Adrian, and the

viewer as well, will have to
reinvent ourselves a minimum of

five times over the remainder of
our career.

And so that's a really big issue
you've you've brought up, and

it's very important.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: That's actually
really good to know because how

many people, and I say this to
my audience all the time is that

we have this idea that we're
supposed to be popped out of our

mom's womb knowing all this
stuff, and we're supposed to be

successful as soon as we come
out, and we should, we should

just know at 18 how to be a
millionaire.

And it's like, no, there's
there's growth, and then we

fall, and then we get up, and
then there's growth, and we take

what we learn and we keep
expanding and bettering

ourselves.

It's and so stop being so hard
on yourself and just do the

work.

So it's it's interesting to hear
you say reinventing yourself

five times because that kind of
makes it easier to know that.

Yeah, well, so much easier.

Very well stated.

Yeah, thank you.

So I have a really important
question.

First of all, we're gonna we're
gonna ask you, have something

free on your website that you're
giving away.

So let's talk about that first
that we before we get into the

juicy stuff.

unknown: Okay.

SPEAKER_00: Oh, just more juicy
stuff.

Okay, it's juicy.

Gets juicy.

unknown: All right.

SPEAKER_00: What are people
gonna be scrolling down to get

today?

SPEAKER_04: This is actually
it'll be through an email, which

is which is admin at
jamesray.com, and I'm sure they

will post that for you.

Is that we're gonna give a
month's free membership to our

week bi-weekly meeting, Art of
Alchemy via Zoom, which we

present live bi-weekly, and we
answer it's a QA, so it's really

interactive.

Kind of like this, it's kind of
like this.

It's fun, it's you know, we
interact with our audience and

they ask your questions, and so
it's it's it's good stuff.

And we're gonna give away a
month's free to whoever is

interested.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry, guess
this is awesome.

Thank you for that.

So, all everybody has to do is
scroll down.

You'll be able to click on that
link, open the window, get

started on that now.

You do not have to tune out of
this interview to do that.

So, we're gonna keep going with
all the juiciness.

Now, listen, you have shared so
much that to me it equates to a

miracle.

And this show is all about
miracles, so I love to talk

about miracles.

I'm wondering if you can just
choose specifically a miraculous

story.

Maybe your client has
experience, you have experience.

I would love to hear a miracle
from each of you.

A miracle story.

SPEAKER_04: Miracle story.

Okay, I'll go with okay.

One of my clients is a female,
and she you can say midline,

she's probably gonna not like
that very much, but she is so

her thing it was relationships
now.

Not only romantic, but it was in
friendships too, where she was

kept running into making
choosing the same person, and

she got tired, she got to a
point where she's like, you know

what, I'm tired of choosing this
person, even though I know

they're wrong, right?

You get all the signs, but yet
you still continue.

So that part of her saying, you
know, I know it's he's they're

wrong for me, but yet I still
continue to go.

And why do I keep doing that?

And when I had my session with
her, I said, Well, there's

something hooking you, there's
something there that we need to

go back and and figure out
what's going on for you.

And what I do is I take it
through my process and we

recapitulate the event, take her
to the specific event of where

it happened, and this happened
to be back in her close to

childhood.

And when I take her there,
that's where the healing and

integration happens.

From there, once that has
happened for her, and it kind of

clicks in, you could almost call
this like a soul retrieval.

And she grabs it and we come
back to the current situation

where she had experienced the
recent events, and when we go

through them, she will either,
in this case, she realized that

her actions will not the same,
and sometimes as far as not even

making the same choices anymore.

So, and then when when I bring
her out of that, you can say

meditation or so forth, it's
like her whole world motto is is

just shifted, right?

It's it's no longer the same.

So even if she wanted, if she if
she even tried to go back to

make the same mistake, she
can't.

And that's the beautiful part
about it, is doing when you do

that soul retrieval integration
healing work, you you could try

as hard as you want, and you
will not go back to making the

same mistake.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, didn't you
help her set up an action plan

for for her future?

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: And then I uh helped
her to set up.

I'm like, okay, let's see what
we're looking for.

What is it you exactly want?

And I had her, you know, write
all this down, and then we went

in and I did another process
where it took her into the

future and had the outcome
there, integrated that and

brought it back.

So it's really it's powerful
work when you do it, and yeah,

she's happy for her.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really
interesting that you bring that

up.

I've not heard of anybody else
doing that before, but I've done

that with a client, and their
can't their cancer disappeared.

That exact same product, the
last thing that you talked

about.

That's very interesting.

I'm like, huh, this is
incredible.

You know, how did you learn how
to do this?

Was this from James?

Or was this your own process
that you went through earlier?

SPEAKER_02: Toltec.

SPEAKER_04: This is mostly
Toltec, and how I'm guided to do

it is is whatever comes to me in
in the process of doing so.

Yeah, background teaching would
be in Toltec, hermetics, and the

mysteries, and the whole process
of going through it.

That's all that's all through in
intuition.

unknown: Wow.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she's she's an
incredible healer, and yeah, and

you know, I just think it's all
experiential.

SPEAKER_04: I like to have the
person go through it so that it

heals and integrates, you know,
to get the results they want.

SPEAKER_02: You know, she's not
the kind of person that you make

an appointment with and go,
okay, what's gonna happen for me

next year?

SPEAKER_00: That that's not at
all.

She helps you create what you
want next year.

Show me what'll happen.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, she she
really has this incredible

intuition, and and as I stated
earlier, one of the biggest

problems we find, Adrian, is
lack of integration.

So there's literally a part of
someone's soul that is stuck in

this unresolved emotional issue,
and you have to come back and

and and bring it back.

And and psychology, which I had
the background in, and and is

tells us that when you go back
and revisit a memory with new

resources and new abilities, you
can never ever think or feel of

that memory the same way again.

You can't, because it shifts it.

And and that's what she's
really, really, really great at.

Like I said, she's my go-to.

And and I had a lot of healing
to do after I came out of my

dysfunctional vacation.

SPEAKER_00: So I was so
fascinated by this because now

because I was wondering about
all the testimonials that I saw,

and now I'm actually
understanding this on a whole

new level of why people are
saying they got sober and

they're making more money and
they're having better

relationships and they're
releasing weight, and you're

you're having all of these
different um outcomes is because

you really do heal the whole.

I mean, amazing.

Okay.

Do you have another miracle
story, James?

Do you have one for us?

SPEAKER_02: I'm not talking
about a client I had named Lou.

And and I let me just say the
difference between Bearsbah and

my process, mine's a lot more
cognitive, and my background

behavioral sciences, and so it's
a little bit more cognitive.

I don't have the intuitive
plug-in nearly as well as she.

Sound familiar?

And and there's no reason why.

He's a good-looking guy, making
decent money, has a good job,

you know, very smart,
articulate.

There's no no logical reason
why.

Well, he worked with me uh for a
year long, actually, hired me to

work with him for a year.

And and we looked at when when I
go into an intervention, we have

what we call the five dimensions
of leadership and performance.

And that's philosophy,
psychology, physiology,

community, and strategy.

Most people only look at
strategies.

And what I what we're going to
suggest to you is that if you

don't look at all five, you're
really missing, missing the

boat.

And so over that year-long
intervention, I worked with him

on all of those, in all of those
areas.

One of the things that's really
important, Adrian, for a lot of

people, and they just don't get
it, is that if your body is

toxic, you're not going to think
clearly.

And you're not going to behave
clearly, and you're not going to

have the confidence and the
awareness that you potentially

could have.

And so that's the physiological
quadrant of the model.

And so I worked with him on a
lot of things from diet,

nutrition, and exercise to to
values, beliefs, assumptions,

perceptions, you know, which is
the psychological portion.

And then community, who are you
hanging out with?

You know, who do you invest your
time with?

Because willpower, I'm a pretty
willful guy.

And yet willpower is off and on.

I don't, I don't care who you
are, willpower is off and on.

Your environment is 24-7.

And your community that you're
investing most of your time

with, according to research from
Harvard, has a driving factor on

your influence, your impact, and
your income.

So then we have strategy as
well.

So I'm I'm looking at all these
different things, and and the

long and the short of it is
after at the end of the year, he

was he had turned his annual
income when we started working

together into a monthly income.

He was making as much in a month
as he was making previously in a

year.

And that's great.

And yet, what's even better than
that, he calls me up.

He lived in Canada.

He calls me up and he says, Hey,
I'm getting married.

And I said, Congratulations.

He said, Will you come be in my
wedding?

And I said, You bet I will.

And so I flew up to Canada and I
stood up with him in his

wedding.

And he married the woman of his
dreams.

They're now, you know, happily
married.

They have a baby daughter.

She's a little bit more than a
baby now.

She's she's growing, but and he
he's just totally transformed

his entire life in all areas.

And so that's really that's the
greatest gift.

It really is to be able to
facilitate that pro that

process.

And it's not that I created it,
it's not that bear so it creates

it.

You create it for yourself.

What we do is hopefully guide
and facilitate that, but you

have to do what's necessary to
make it happen.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for
sharing those miracles.

So for everybody watching, if
you want to have it all, you

know who to work with, you know
where to go.

We've already talked about it,
we've covered it.

There's no reason you shouldn't
be clicking buttons, visiting

websites, and making phone
calls.

I'm just saying.

So this is the last part, and
this is the last question I have

for you.

And this will end the interview.

I will not say anything after
this.

This is all on you.

But is there any final message
that you feel like you have for

the audience that they really
need to hear?

Either one of you or both.

SPEAKER_04: Mine would be this
is what I'm getting is don't

don't be afraid.

Don't be afraid to let go and
start over.

Just make the jump.

Jump.

Just jump.

It's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_02: Damn.

That's great.

I would say there's a seed of
greatness that is born within

you.

I don't care who you are, I
don't care where you are, I

don't care what you do.

There's a seed of greatness born
within you.

And that seed has nothing to do
with what's outside of you.

It doesn't matter what's going
on in the economy right now,

what's going on politically, it
doesn't matter, you know, what's

going on with your business.

And I'm not jaded to those
things.

I'm very sensitive to those
things, but that's not the

ultimate driver.

There's a seed of greatness
that's born within you.

And when you remember that and
you cultivate that, then you are

here to actualize that.

And you are here to do something
great.

And great is relative.

You know, not everyone is meant
to be a mega millionaire, not

everyone is meant to be a
best-selling author, not

everyone is meant to be a
speaker or any of those kind of

things, you know, an Elon Musk,
or, you know, I mean, not

everyone's meant to do that, but
every greatness is relative.

It's it's bringing your
God-given gifts to the table and

actualizing those fully.

And that's, you know, God's
greatest gift to us is our

unlimited potential.

Our greatest gift back to God is
to utilize it.

And so my challenge to you is is
to do that, to utilize it, to

remember who you are.

Take your power back, you know,
stop giving it away to outside

sources and go inside and take
it back.