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Hello, you are now watching the best movie from the Predator movie, bar none.
A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Alicia: Hey, just a heads up: the episode
you're about to listen to is about Prey
directed by a Dan Trachtenberg and written
by Dan Trachtenberg, Patrick Aison,
and based on characters by Jim Thomas.
Some relevant trigger warnings for
this movie include blood and gore and
our hosts ranked this movie as scary.
If you'd like to learn more
about the movie, discuss this
evening, please visit our website,
progressivelyhorrified.transistor.fm
for show notes and a
transcript of this episode.
After the spooky music we'll talk
about the movie in full so be
forewarned, there will be spoilers!
Now let's get on with the show.
Emily: I wish art didn't
take so much time.
Jeremy: We all do.
David: Yeah.
Seriously.
Ben: Mood.
Jeremy: Everybody on this call.
Hundred percent.
Yeah.
Ben: All right.
That's enough shop talk.
Should we dive into Prey?
David: Let's do it.
Jeremy: Yeah, let us pray.
Good evening.
And welcome to Progressively Horrified
the podcast where we hold horror to
progressive standards it never agreed to.
Tonight, we're talking about a brand
new movie in a franchise that's
been with us through the eighties,
but dare I say, this may be the
best movie in the franchise yet.
It's Prey.
I am your host Jeremy Whitney.
And with me tonight, I have a
panel of cinephiles and cenobites.
First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf/ sexy vampire
binary, my co-host Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: There's no may about it.
This is the best movie in the franchise.
Holy shit, this movie rules.
Jeremy: Time to fight on Twitter.
And the cinnamon roll of cenobites-
Ben: Yeah!
Fight me bro.
Jeremy: Our co-host, Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: I'm great.
I'm with you, Ben, I'm gonna
fight with you all back to back.
This is the best Predator movie.
It's even better than
Predator the Musical.
Jeremy: Ooh a tough call.
Ben: There's a musical?
Oh man, that rules.
Jeremy: They're all
musical in their own way.
And our guest, award-winning comic
book writer and current writer of
Savage Avengers and Fantastic Four
at Marvel Comics is David Pepose.
David, how are you?
David: Hi!
uh, Thanks so much for having me.
Excited to be here and yeah.
Uh, Prey ruled.
I'm very excited to talk about it and
to talk about all things Predator.
Ben: Yeah, we are psyched as
hell to have you here, buddy.
Jeremy: They were, there were two big like
horror movies that came out this weekend
that I'd really been looking forward to.
One was this and the other one sucked.
So.
Ben: I thought you were gonna talk
about Rise of the Teenage Ninja Turtles
movie, cuz Krang are some serious
fucking body horror in that one.
David: Yeah.
Jeremy: No, I'm, I'm talking about
They/Them, which might be one of the
worst horror movies I've ever seen.
Emily: Oh yeah.
Ben: I think we are not going
to cover it on this podcast.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I would, would not recommend.
Anyway.
That is not the movie we're talking about.
We're talking about Prey.
Uh, Now, before we jump into general
discussion to the movie, uh, Ben,
you've got the recap on this one.
So, uh, let's hear what you have to say.
Ben: Prey is directed by Dan Trachtenberg
and is starring Amber Midthunder, Dakota
Beavers, Michelle Thush, Stormee Kipp, uh,
Julian Black Antelope and Dan deLiegro.
Prey is set in 1719 in the Great
Plains region and focuses on Naru,
a Comanche healer and tracker
who longs to be a warrior and
hunter like her brother, Taabe.
Naru likes to practice axe
throwing with her dog, Sarii,
who is just the best doggie.
Naru tries to hunt a deer, but fails
because it's only act one of the move and
we have character arcs to get through.
We also get introduced to the true
monster of the movie, white people.
When Sarii, gets hurt in a metal trap.
Naru sees a Thunderbird fall from
the sky, but we know it's really
a Predator ship because that's
when the title card appears.
Naru takes the sign that her
trial as a hunter has arrived.
And when a mountain lion injures
one of the tribe members, she
joins a hunting party to save the
injured person and kill the lion.
They find him and Taabe goes off to
hunt the lion, but Naru suspects,
there's more going on when she
finds a snake that was killed by
the Predator and big ass footprints.
She finds Taabe and helps come up with
a plan to bait the lion and it works.
Kinda.
A real jerk of a hunter gets small
to death and Naru falls out of
the tree and has to be rescued
and brought back to the village by
Taabe, who is made the new war chief.
Naru though, knows there's something
still out there and insists on hunting it.
Predator continues his campaign to punch
all the animals by getting into a samurai
duel with a Wolf, which he wins, cuz
otherwise the movie would be over and you
just have like a cool Wolf hanging around.
Meanwhile, Naru leaves the village to hunt
the Predator and trains by tying a rope to
her axe and learning how to be scorpion.
On her trek, Naru finds a bunch of
skinned Buffalo because the real
monsters are the French- just like in
real life- and falls into Chekov's bog.
Naru later finds a big ass bear
and totally fails to hunt it.
The bear is about to wreck her shit when
the bear gets challenged by Predator,
they fight and then Predator punches the
bear in the face so hard that it dies.
Predator sees Naru and is like, nah,
not a threat and lets her get away.
She runs into a group of douchey,
tribesmen, and also Sanguinet
from Shorsey and they try to force
her to return to the village.
Fortunately for us and the plot
Predator soon comes and murders the
fuck out of the douchey tribesmen.
Sanguinet from Shorsey survives
slightly longer, but also gets
the fuck murdered out of him.
And if you don't know who
Sanguinet from Shorsey is then
give your balls a tug, tit-fucker.
That's a Letterkenny reference.
The white people who capture Naru are
as awful as you'd imagine, they'd be.
And we learned the trappers are
being hunted by Predator and
that they've captured Sarii and
Taabe, who they lightly torture.
The next morning, Naru and Taabe are tied
to a trunk in a burnt forest as bait for
Predator, but Predator is Predator and
starts slaughtering the trappers instead.
Stewie: Oh Rupert!
Touche!
Hoisted by my own petard!
Ben: It is awesome.
Raddest ass scene in the movie.
It's cool.
Naru and Taabe reconcile,
he calls her awesome.
And then he drops the iconic
Taabe: If it bleeds, we can kill it.
Ben: cuz this movie fucking rules y'all.
Naru and Taabe free themselves and Naru
rescues Sarii from the trespassers,
by being a total action hero badass.
Then she gets the Predator
to Easter egg gun.
When Predator goes to the camp to kill
the remaining trappers, Taabe attacks
him and kicks the Predators ask is
Taabe is a hardcore warrior, badass.
Hollywood.
If you don't cast Dakota Beavers
as Nightwolf in the Mortal Kombat
sequel, what the fuck are you doing?
Meanwhile Predator 'cides he
actually doesn't wanna fight
honorably after all now that he's
losing and instead turns invisible
so he can dramatically kill Taabe.
Naru runs off and later
catches a surviving trapper
to use as bait for Predator.
Naru is now armed of key observations
like Predator can't see you.
If you make blood cold medicine,
how the helmet controls
Predators, ranged weapons and gun.
Predator takes a truly unbelievable amount
of punishment fighting Naru, then gets
thrown into the bog where we get a reverse
Schwarzenegger rising from the mud.
Predator, fires, his flechette weapon,
but Naru has arranged his helmet.
So it's aiming at his own
head and Predator gets fucking
meed by his own weapon.
Naru returns to the tribe and
has made the new war chief.
And then a post credit scene reveals
that three more Predator ships came
from this guy, like immediately.
The end.
Emily: If I was those Predator
ships, I'd be like, well done.
You got 'em with like a rope
and some rocks and his own shit.
for real though, I mean,
they also had one musket.
That got.
Ben: Yeah, yeah.
Again.
Jeremy: Like even a full musket.
Ben: I loved how much
punishment, the Predator got.
Like, not that he is this invincible
implacable unstoppable monster,
like Terminator or Michael Myers.
Like he is clearly being hurt, but he
is just so unrelenting and just fights
through what is like pain and damage.
Like, no, he gets shot through the eye.
Loses like an arm.
Gets bitten, stabbed, like speared,
shot with a bunch of arrows, like,
and he just keeps fucking going.
Jeremy: Now all of that is true, but
on the front of him being or not being
an unstoppable monster, he does gorilla
press slam a grizzly bear in this movie.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: And It's
Jeremy: awesome!
He takes the grizzly bear, picks it
up over his head and slams it down.
And I was like, okay!
Ben: I love, Predator in the
beginning of this movie, like.
Not even knowing humans are a thing
and his attitude is just like, I'm
gonna sit around and wait to see
which animals kill other animals.
And then I'm gonna kill
the killer animals.
Emily: I feel like the Predator's
whole kit has some kind of like XP
unlocking system going on because
he keeps killing like slightly
bigger, more dangerous animals.
Where he like kills a snake.
And he is like, oh shit, this
thing's, this thing's all vertebrae.
I don't do.
I get extra for no shit.
Okay.
Now Wolf.
And then finally he starts using
his like UFO razors or whatever.
But I do wanna talk about the
Predator because predator.
Jeremy: Is it about how sexy is?
Emily: I mean, he's sexy.
Yeah.
Ben: Oh, monster.
Fuckers you are in for a treat
with this new Predator design.
Emily: But he is a total Chad and he has
absolutely no, like I know Predators.
We have like Predators
fight with a system.
Sometimes we say a system with honor.
This is big game hunting.
There is no honor.
This dude has like on top of
a elephant shooting at tigers.
Ben: Is that how hunting works?
Do they get on top of the elephants?
Cause I gotta say that hunting
is cooler than I thought.
Emily: Old, well, old, big game hunting,
like in, in India and stuff like a lot
of the stuff that was really, really
like exoticized and, like the British
would go to India and sit on the back of
an elephant and be like, look a tiger.
Let's explode it.
Very similar to how these French trappers
go and they're like, oh, look at Buffalo.
Let's like, Shoot them in
the head and then take their
skin and then be like, Cool.
Goodbye.
Ben: I, my first thought was when
we got to like the Buffalo scene, I
did for a bit thought, oh, that was
Predator fighting Buffalo in his
animal tournament, ranking ladder.
That was a little excessive Predator.
And then a little bit later I'm
like, oh no, white people way worse.
Yeah.
Way more monstrous.
Emily: The real monsters are the
French people we met along the way.
Yeah.
David: I kinda liked how Like I think
from the moment you see the Predator,
you're kinda like, oh yeah, that
honor code is like out the window.
Like just seeing the way that
the fight with the Wolf was shot.
Um, And even the fight with
the bear, you're kind of.
The Predator is cloaked, the Predator.
I mean, I was talking about this with
my partner when we were watching it.
I was like, you know, in the other movies,
you kind of see like the cloaking device
as an equalizer, you know, when you're
against Arnold and all of Arnold's people.
Yeah.
Or if you're against like all of
the gangs in LA like a cloaking
device, like makes sense.
That's how you win.
But like one on one with a
Wolf, like that's cheap fighting
and it kind of immediately was
like, oh, I hate the Predator.
Like, like he deserves
exactly what he gets.
Ben: I love the Taabe explicitly
calls him out as a cheater.
Yeah.
Because like, on the surface.
I feel like the Predator doesn't
escalate until his like prey escalates.
Like again, when he is fighting
wolves and bears, he's only using
like his wrist mounted clause.
He doesn't start using range weapons until
like, he goes up against bows and arrows.
Right.
And then it's only when he goes up
against like guns and traps that he
bust out like the real technology.
And I feel like on the surface,
it's like, oh, he's fighting
at a relatively fair level.
But then again, there is like, oh,
as soon as Taabe is legitimately
kicking his ass, he goes invisible.
I like no fair fight.
Actually.
Jeremy: I think it's interesting that
like, in, in the original Predator with
Arnold, like it's a series of traps.
Like he catches the guys alone
one at a time and, you know, takes
them out through various means.
This Predator straight up
works on boss battle logic,
which is like, oh, I beat him.
So.
He's moving on to his second stage.
He's pulling out the, the new weapon.
Now he has explosives that spin,
you know, now he has another
new weapon added to that.
He is a thick, big boy Predator.
I feel like Predators change
somewhat in size over the course
of, of the various movies.
And uh, this is a large, large
guy who, like I said, is, is
gorilla pressing grizzly bears?
I don't think he needs he's so opposing
quite at the, again, the rate that he
does.
Ben: I love like a bear charges at
him and he just side steps and punches
that bear to death in a single punch.
Emily: This Predator's design is so cool.
The weird skull head, it's all.
I love the skull helmet skull.
And then the fact that he
it's not dreadlocks anymore.
They're like spines mm-hmm . And that
was kind of relieving because there
was a lot of like, especially when you
have the Predator and Predator too,
and you have like all of these Jamaican
drug cartel, people everywhere, and
then the Predator with his dreadlocks.
And I'm like, you guys uh,
it's getting a little bit, mm.
Streams are not supposed to be
crossed, you know, now it is, it
is less evocative of dreadlocks.
Which, as a creature designed, yeah.
Having tentacles come off
of your head, that's cool.
But then when you put it right next
to like the actual, like thing it's
based on, It can get a little dicey.
like in, In this movie, the visual
echoes in this movie were the skinning
of the Buffalo and then the de
gluing of the snake by the Predator.
So we are to see that the Predator
is basically a bigger game hunter
than the French fur trappers.
And he's also like an asshole.
like he's like Jimmy, John's
Ben: I love that Predator
has his own like gel.
Like he has a spray to like melt
things down to the skull for his
trophies, which again, just makes
me think, like, there has to be like
a Predator bait and tackle shop.
where that's like your
hunting accessories.
Emily: That's what I'm saying
is that the particular Jimmy
John is a big game hunter.
And like one of those guys that goes out
in like, from a helicopter and shoots
elephants or whatever, I don't know.
This is just, I don't know.
he's bad, but
Ben: a, whatever the fuck Trump is doing,
Trump Jr's doing where you don't like it.
Emily: Yeah.
And I just wonder if like, these
Predators back home are like dentists and
shit, or they're like fucking running,
like their Papa John or whatever.
And they're just
David: like, I mean, a minimum, you have
to have like a Predator blacksmith and
a Predator, like spaceship designer.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: I mean, I really think
your college, that is what sets.
Predator like apart.
They're not like monsters, like the
Xena morphs who just like live only
to consume and kill and reproduce.
They're not so over the top
evil gory, like the Xena bites,
like, this is a civilization,
this is an intelligent species.
They are not doing this out of a
biological hunger or all consuming need.
This is a hobby.
Yeah.
They're doing this.
This is a weekend getaway for them.
Yeah.
And that's what do they do?
like the Xeno bites are never
not being tortured, sex demons.
like the Z, like the aliens
are always being aliens.
Like what do the Predators do
when they're not being Predators?
Cause they're not always Predators.
Like what do they do?
I need to see the
Emily: dentists.
There's whatever you're
Jeremy: doing, Predator law stuff.
And then, you know, like the
three red dots pop up and you're
like, haha, Larry put it up.
Like
Ben: this can get away to earth.
Is there like the pre, the Elmer Fudd
Predator who just keeps getting like
confused at which like alien species.
It's like the season to hunt.
David: That's funny.
Emily: I think he was in
um, I think I saw him INP.
David: Elmer Fudd versus Predator.
I wanna write that so bad now.
Emily: or the, like the
Elmer Fudd Predator.
Ben: Now that good news.
We're doing a Warner brothers,
like Disney crossover.
Yeah, that news.
It's not the one you're expecting yeah.
David: Elmer
Ben: versus Predator.
God, we know you've wanted a Disney
comic book property in Warner brothers,
comic book, property crossing over.
Well, here you go.
Emily: I mean, after all the space jam
shit, I don't know if they could do it.
I don't know if they're gonna
sign off on it, but who knows?
Ben: Who knows?
No, they will.
Oh, they'll let your dream that well,
space jam thoroughly poison that.
Well, yeah.
If you don't know the story, kids
Warner brothers wanted Mickey mouse
to be the referee in space jam after
agreeing to let Disney use bugs
bunny in who framed Roger rabbit.
And Disney's response
was law, new CEO who this
Emily: well, the Disney Warner brothers,
Roger rabbit thing was very specific.
But yeah, Predators are dicks.
Predators are big game hunters
and they do not fight with honor.
And some movies try to make them seem like
slightly honorable, but still like they're
highly like technologically advanced.
They got stealth.
Maybe they don't know how to hear
because they're always making noise.
Like maybe that's
Ben: part of their creaky.
I love the clicky sound creaky
that click the sound designed
in this movie is so good.
Yeah.
I mean, that's cool.
How satisfying was it?
Every time like that ax hit a tree
like this movie sounds amazing.
Jeremy: Yeah.
It looks amazing too.
It's a beautiful movie.
Emily: Did this movie
come out in theaters?
Ben: No, it didn't.
Which is wild.
Like I hope someone's being like
just fucking keel hauled in a Disney
officer being like, what the fuck?
How did this not be in theaters?
Yeah.
Emily: It looked great on the big screen.
I don't know, like this,
Ben: this absolutely.
Would've been a hit.
Yeah.
There's no way this wouldn't
have been a big hit.
Jeremy: It has been it's the biggest
premier that Hulu has ever had.
So I don't know.
It's really hard to tell because
it changes month to month.
What anybody's prioritizing at this point.
but like it's, it's done
amazing business for Hulu.
It's easily.
You know, the, the biggest
movie I've ever seen on Hulu.
And I, I wanna take a second to recognize,
like the things that this movie does.
Well, I mean, because we talked
about sound design, we talked about
the visual design of the movie.
They're both incredible, but
like the really basic stuff
that this movie gets, right.
That it's like, alright, we're
gonna set this in the Great Plains.
And we are gonna actually hire native
American actors to do this stuff.
And we're gonna do the, the
community track is a dub, but
it's still like, they did it.
They didn't have to do so good.
Did it.
And the actors are all amazing.
And it's all these things that like,
you have so many of these movies,
especially stuff set in Africa and
anything to do with Egypt whatsoever
where like, all these places are
like, Hey, we just couldn't find like
the right people to do these things.
Like, you know, we really looked
and it was, we looked so hard and we
just couldn't find the right actors.
So we hired some white
guy to do it and like,
Ben: Jake Gyllenhaal is
the Prince of Persia,
Jeremy: the two, the two leads
in this movie are incredible.
Amber Midthunder does some
amazing action work in this.
Ben: Put her in a John Wick movie, like
give her her own like action franchise.
Like she's so good.
Amber Midthunder.
Jeremy: And like she's she has done stuff.
Like she was in the other X-Men TV show.
Ben: I remembered her from Legion.
Jeremy: Yeah.
But like the Dakota Beavers is brand new.
Apparently like he just
hasn't done a bunch of stuff.
Ben: No, this was his, apparently
his first acting role he's shot.
I wish I, this is his first ever anything.
And he's amazing.
Yeah.
They are making the Mortal Kombats equal.
How would he is not instantly
like the only choice for Nightwolf
Emily: because it's a Mortal Kombat movie.
David: You probably are the only
one dream casting Nightwolf in
the Mortal Kombat seat right now.
well,
Jeremy: I, you say we had this
conversation online earlier, cuz
this was Ben's immediate reaction
after watching this movie.
And I was like, do you know that
Amber Midthunder's actual dad is the
model for the character of Nightwolf.
Like the real
Ben: man that not the
craziest fucking shit.
That's what that blew my goddamn mind.
That's awesome.
Emily: Well, good for them making it
was the character model for like the,
the live action or the the motion cap.
Jeremy: Yeah.
For the Mortal Kombat 11 version
where, you know, everything
is, is modeled on real people.
His name is David mid thunder.
they were both in long Meyer.
And he's in Westworld and a
bunch of other stuff as well.
He's also a producer and a
consultant on a bunch of stuff, but.
Ben: Mortal combat 11, if you haven't
played, it was a lot of fun cuz it was
essentially Mortal Kombat's version
of crisis on infinite earths or.
Mortal Kombats of future past.
Emily: I, I believe you.
Is that the one that had the joker in it?
Ben: No, that was Mortal Kombat verse DC.
Oh wait, no, that is, oh wait, no,
that is the one that had the joker.
Yeah.
Yes.
Joker was a DLC character, but then they
kept advertising world combat 11 by having
people in the arrow verse shows play it.
And I kept wondering, is joker
still a DLC character in this cuz
that'd be real fucking awkward.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I, I do wanna say this.
One of the thing on this that I love,
which is when the fucking French
show up the way that they handle the
Comanche spoken in this movie in the
standard English version is that people
speaking Comanche are speaking English
to us, but it is understood that they
are speaking Comanche to one another.
But like.
When the French show up, not only are
they speaking French on screen, but the
movie refuses to translate any of it.
Even if you turn the subtitles on the
subtitles are just straight up in French.
So like, if she doesn't understand any
of it, you don't understand any of it.
And the French are disgusting and MOTS
the entire time they're on screen.
Oh yeah.
Oh my God.
This movie handles the French.
The way that 1950s movies
handle native Americans
Ben: like pre the Predator.
Portrayed as less subhuman than
these Frenchman people are.
These trappers are just Ugh.
But I was like, and again, this is
probably the, so like the silver lining
to this movie, not getting a theatric
criminal release is it did allow for the
Comanche dub, which is how I watched it.
I definitely recommend it.
It's apparently the creators only
originally wanted to make it in Comanche.
And then this day was like,
fucking no, of course not.
So I do appreciate again that they
still got to do the Comanche dub.
There are a few times really Mo
only with like minor characters.
It's particularly notable that
it's a dub, but Amber Midthunder
and Dakota Beavers are fantastic.
Like I ran through a lot of it again
this morning doing my recap and I did
the English version there and yeah.
They're both great and always on
point in the Comanche version, and I
do think it just adds another level
of immersion and realism to it.
So, if you're able and you're
curious about it, I would definitely
recommend the Comanche dub
Emily: Dave.
You're saying?
David: I, I was gonna say, yeah.
I mean, having the talk about the, the,
the French people and how awful they were.
Yeah.
It was, it was very much like
a, let them fight kind of thing.
Like I already kind of went into the
movie being like this Predator's a jerk.
In a detail that I spotted that my
partner didn't spot and I think a lot
of people have missed it on, on Twitter.
You know, seeing the way that
the Frenchmen kind of start
creeping up on the periphery.
Like you have the bear trap at first
with the dog and that's all you see.
And then when you see the bison
or the Buffalo who have been,
who have been skinned, you think
like, oh, is this the Predator?
But then you see, she picks the cigar
mm-hmm , which then the French guy is
smoking those cigars and then has one of
the Buffalo skins on his back and it's
just like, oh, these guys are assholes.
and then it kind of balances out in
a kind of nice way where you're like,
yeah, this is a fun way to fill up
like the midpoint, like yeah, let's
let them fight these two jerks.
Like let's let 'em wear each
other down and kind of gives
our heroes like a chance.
Ben: A great way to let the Punisher.
Cut loose in a context where we're kind
of rooting for where we're not even kind
of where we're rooting for the Predator.
It's not subtle that like these,
these French uh, fabrics are as much
an invader as much an alien presence
as much destructive presence, if
not much more so than the Predator.
Our real first exposure to him is Naru
finding this trap, which to her, this
trap with it's like metal chain is as
alien and as unknown and as like dangerous
as anything the Predator has going on.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: I mean, his credit, the Predator.
Is a sport hunter.
Like he kills one of each thing as
he is going through and they just
straight up ravaged this herd of bison.
Like they kill all of them and
skin, all of them and just leave
the carcasses laying there.
Ben: Oh yeah, no, the Predator is a
better person than these trappers.
Well, the,
Emily: the trap was without a
doubt, our industry guy, like
they're out getting a product.
It's like a, not even a hunt so much
as it is just gathering materials.
The French also have technology that
is incredibly advantageous against the,
you know, herds of bison and everything.
They also have numbers and there's all
these different factors going on with the
French trappers that, you know, history
has also shown that the way that these
herds were decimated and uh, you know,
the resources became scarce so quickly.
the trappers were not really
hunting for sport EVI.
Like it wasn't even a point.
The hunt was not the point.
And I think with the situation with the
Predator, the hunt is the point, but
it's also like bullying essentially,
because he's so advanced, you know, he's
like, I'm gonna kill this snake empty
glove it because I like skulls and,
you know, still incredibly wasteful.
Ben: Yeah.
He's not at that full crave in the hunter
where he does wanna challenge himself.
And he does want like an honorable hunt.
Like he wants to feel like
he's having an honorable hunt.
Yes.
But I, but not actually, like, it's
very reminiscent to me of the Klingons
where it's like, you know, you're
introduced to war and it's like, oh,
they're all about honor and all that.
And then like, you actually meet like
their politicians and whatnot and what
they're doing when they're not being wary.
And they're like, oh, that honor.
Stuff's just a lot of
political propaganda bullshit.
And you're all a bunch of
fucking hypocrites, like yeah.
Worf: I protest.
I am not a married man.
Jeremy: Yeah.
The Predator's bad.
At least he's not a capitalist though.
Ben: Yes.
Yeah.
Emily: That's what I was trying to
say with all those words before.
Ben: But the real horror is capitalism.
Did you
Emily: hear, did you know what
any of the French were saying?
David: No.
Ben: I I know mattered.
I understood that.
I understood when he was like, oh
shit, Predator's gonna kill me.
Yeah.
How great was that like burnt
for as though, like, as a setting
that was for a fight scene
Emily: but the French real quick.
So the French were saying, fuck a lot.
They were also speaking very rudimentary
French, which was not the same kind
of French as the time would have had
them speaking, but I don't give a shit.
You know, I don't think it
really needs, we really need to
give a shit about that because
Ben: it's the, yeah, that was
one area where I think the
movie was not particularly
interested in historical accuracy.
Well, the point isn't,
Emily: you know, the point
isn't accurate about that.
Yeah.
The
Ben: movie.
Yeah.
The movie had no Predator
interest in humanizing the French.
Emily: Yeah.
But there's the there's one scene where
Ben: there, nor should it hot
take alert, if you are listening
to this in France, I love you.
Yeah.
I
Emily: love you too, because I have a
very, I have, I worked with some very
fantastic people in France, but the.
I
Jeremy: think the point isn't
really, even that they're French
so much is that they're colonizers.
Yes.
And uh, they are in that capacity,
infinitely, disposable, like, you
know, there's, they're not people
that you have to root for at any time.
Emily: As they're trying to clean
up the camp and there's a exchange
that they have about the dog where he
says, she says, I like dogs, right?
And then he says, they taste
better than the beavers.
Ben: So, oh, I'm so I'm so glad
Naru just kills the shit outta them.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Something I really like about the
Predator design is that I really like
that it also feels like it's 300 years
earlier that the Predator society also
advanced and got more high tech, cuz
I think there can be a real tendency.
And you know, I think you see this like
star wars, like, you know, so like halo
when they talk about like the elites
and their, the aliens and their designs,
there can be a real like it's sci-fi and
futuristic, but it's also very stagnant.
and doesn't change no matter
where on a potentially very
expansive timeline you are.
So I liked how much, like how much
more low tech or more, more DIY put
together the Predator's tech was here.
Like, it feels like they are still
a few hundred years away from, the
helmet and plasma cannons that the
Predator that fights R E like, has
Emily: I felt, I didn't
really read it that way.
I just felt like this was a particular
Predator that like to wear skulls,
but I mean, that's good point.
And in star Trek's defense,
the Klingons did change a lot.
Worf: Those are Klingons?
Mr.
Worf?
They are Klingons.
And it is a long story.
Ben: The Klingons that's because
they can't fucking make up minds.
Emily: I am.
Ben: I am.
What the fuck is strange new is
are they gonna do on the next
season of strange new world?
They'll probably be like energy.
How the fuck are they
Emily: gonna some shit?
Ben: How the fuck are they
gonna rectify being cannon with
discovery and the original series?
Like what?
They don't know what the fuck to do.
If the Klingon design, there's
Jeremy: like five years in there
before original series will start up.
So
Ben: what they all got hit with
humanizing forehead Ridge bomb.
isn't that one?
I don't know.
I don't
Jeremy: remember.
Sorry.
David has something, I think semi related
to the movie we actually talking about.
No, we,
Ben: we need to talk about the
inconsistency of Klingon designs.
Emily: Dave, how do you feel about
inconsistency of cl on designs?
Well, you know,
David: I, I feel like that
then it lacks conviction.
And the, what are the Klingons
if they don't have conviction?
I, I was, that's very well said.
The thing about this movie
that like stood out to me.
I, I rewatched.
All of the Predator movies in,
in preparation for this nice.
I,
Ben: I did not, but even the 2018 one?
David: Yeah, I did not rewatch
Aliens versus Predator or
Aliens versus Predator requi.
Ben: That's a separate, that's
a separate sub, but you know,
Emily: I take that to yourself,
David: this movie and I say, this is
a compliment, but having watched the
other Predator movies, this was like the
equivalent of like taking like a couple
of like big Mac and like turning it into
like gourmet, a gourmet dinner, you know?
most of these Predator movies and I say,
this is a huge fan of the Predator movies.
Like.
There's a degree of like, you know,
it's drenched in eighties irony.
And even the ones you know, the more
recent ones, which are not very good.
Like they're still trying to chase
that feeling and this, it was very
much like, no, we are going for
like a straight on like, full,
like almost artsy Predator movie.
like, and I think that's really cool.
I think that's something that, like a
lot of these eighties properties you
have to look at them through the lens
of like campiness or the lens of irony.
And the fact that this movie is like,
no, like we're gonna play it straight
and we're gonna play it with like,
like a prestige kind of action movie.
That was dope.
I thought that was.
Really fascinating, but I think that also
speaks to, and this is I'm gonna pose a
question to everybody here on the, on, on
the podcast, cuz I've been thinking a lot
about especially franchise media, things
like the Predator mm-hmm um, you know,
it's a little bit of a, a, a Roach test.
And I think the way that people
interact with it is based on
how they were introduced to it.
So I'm curious, what was everybody
here's first interaction,
exposure to the Predator?
Ben: My first Predator movie I saw
was Predators, the Adrian Brody movie.
Wow.
In theaters.
And I enjoyed it.
Like it's not a movie, like I love, but
like definite like, three and a half
out of five or something like that.
I'm like, I thought it was like a solid,
inventive, fun, like action flick.
Like, and at the same time I'm
like, oh, anytime the monster
just stops what he is doing.
Decides to have a samurai dual because
the other guy pulls out a samurai sword.
I'm in!
Like, I'm in!
Like, I can't not love, I, can't
not like a movie where that happens.
David: First.
That was your first exposure to anything
Ben: Predator.
I mean, I knew of it like, and
there was like, so like I saw the
first Predator, not long after that.
So Predators was the first one I
saw, but you know, there's a certain
level of pop culture, osmosis.
Like that's there.
Jeremy: I would give Predators this,
like, it's not the greatest movie,
but if your franchise is dead,
the way that Predator was at that
point, throwing Robert Rodriguez's
at it and letting him do whatever
the fuck he wants is a great idea.
Like, oh my God, that's a lot,
like, that's a sh that's a shot
in the arm if you're like, cause
like after the two Alien vs.
Predator movies, like nobody wanted
to see another Predator movie.
And they were like, Robert Rodriguez.
What if you made this
idea you had of just like.
Prisoners sent to a space plan, fighting
the Predator and Adrian Brody was for
some reason in the Yu, the Yakuza,
Ben: like what I appreciate about both
Predators and Prey is that they both
feel like big budget, movie versions
of storylines that you would've found
in like the dark horse Predator comics.
Emily: Yeah.
Well, and I think that's where
I first encountered Predator.
At least the name and the franchise
stuff was through comics and, you know,
there's the pop culture osmosis, but
it was, I mostly had heard of Predator
through the video games the toys and the
comics that I'd seen at my local shops.
And then
Ben: I would love a video game where
you like, like a new modern video
game where you play as Predator.
Jeremy: Yeah.
That's all the, that's all,
all the Predator games have
been as you play as predator.
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: I guess it'd have to be like, no
man sky, but with way more violence.
Yes.
That's what it should be.
No man sky with way more violence.
That's the ultimate Predator game.
You just go around exploring an endless
amount of plants and killing everything.
You see.
One of everything.
Emily: I feel like this movie had
a lot of really like solid video
game progression with the Predator.
But also, all of the first nation
stuff was actually really good.
And, you know, like the Predator
really doesn't need to be more than
like a video game villain at this
point, cuz it is kind of mythic.
Jeremy: my first experience with
the Predator is the Predator which
I watched probably too young.
I must have been in third grade,
maybe fourth grade when I saw it.
Ben: No, that's the, that's exactly
the right age to watch Predator.
Yeah.
I watched it a little bit older,
but that was someone who watched
Mortal Kombat in kindergarten
Jeremy: at, at an age that I was
actively watching Jesse Ventura wrestle
at the time that, you know, this.
This movie was out and Arnold
Schwartzenegger had between three and
four big budget movies a year coming out.
Ben: And this was years before
ACE Ventura, which has nothing
to do with Jesse Ventura.
Jeremy: No.
David: I wanna see that crossover.
Emily: I don't.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I, I very distinctly remember there
being some sort of camera that is
uh, that came to my school and it
must have been third grade that was
taking infrared pictures of kids and
everybody just being like a Predator.
I'm the Predator man.
Look with the Predator.
So that really like
nails it down in time.
We did love some infrared photography.
Ben: That that was just
such a great effect.
Like the infrared view, like what
a great also what a great way of.
Kind of depicting your monster at a time
when your monster is still invisible
and also just like ramping up the
alienness of it and just getting the
super creepy voyeuristic effect that
has been tried in true since Hitchcock.
Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I mean, it's essentially the,
John Carpenter monster vision
that they use for, for Michael
Myers is just to the E degree.
Yeah.
David: My, my intro to it
was Batman versus Predator.
And so that's why I, I think that's
why I have a soft spot for Predator
too, is because that's the one that's
closest to Batman versus Predator.
An urban
Emily: Predator.
David: Yeah.
And um, I saw it.
I was pretty young.
I was pre, or I wa read the book I
guess it came out in what, 91, 92.
So I was probably seven or eight by
the time that I actually read it.
And I was just like, oh, this is like,
it's like, you've got like the best
parts of like a cool kind of urban
detective story, but you've also just
got like Batman getting like his ass
beat by a Predator and then having to
build himself some, I didn't know, I
didn't, it wasn't until later I could
connect the dots between that and like
dark night returns, but I was like, oh,
he's pulling out some dark night returns
armor to beat the hell out of a Predator.
Like that's like iconic that's mythic.
And so, I've always really enjoyed
the Predator kind of being this like
relentless force of nature that like,
you gotta dig in like super deep to kill.
And I know that was something
that really plug the plug.
That's something that really informed,
like what I did on Savage Avengers
where I basically did, like, it
was, I pitched it as koan versus the
Terminator, but we added a little bit of
Predator to our villain death lock the
destroyer because he can cloak himself.
And and so the very first page of
the book is death lock cloaking
himself, overlooking the city, trying
Ben: to, and there's a real cool
reason why he can cloak himself
that we're not gonna spoil here.
So you're just gonna have to check
out Savage Avengers, number three.
Yes.
David: And when number four
comes out, we will explain all
about that twist, but, yeah.
It's, it's just one of those
things that I re that's the thing.
I like the most about the Predator movies.
And that's why I'm a little
bit of a blaster that like, I
like the first Predator movie.
Okay.
but I think it's because like I love
seeing the underdog nature of it all.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm, Arnold.
I love Arnold Schwartzenegger movies.
It's hard to view him as an
underdog, even in that situation.
Yeah.
And so, this movie really
scratched that itch for
Ben: me, where I was just such a great
underdog story, like classic underdog.
Jeremy: Well, I mean with
the original Predator, you
don't just have Arnold either.
You've got a whole like cast
of action, movie stables.
You've got Carl weathers,
you've got bill duke.
You've got Jesse, even sure you have
God sheen black for some reason.
right.
Is in there.
So
Ben: random.
Yeah.
He's
David: a really script.
You did script consulting on it.
Ben: I feel like where the Predator kind
of trips itself up is that Predator,
most work says like a deconstruction
of, the big macho, overly muscular
machine gun, toting action hero
that Arnold popularized in commando.
It's like, what if commando was in
a horror movie and he was fucked.
And, but so you get him like taking
out analogs of that commando.
Oh, but the actual commander,
well, he's still gonna be bad too.
Badass enough to be killed.
Right.
So it's like, it wants to deconstruct
the Arnold archetype while still
having the Arnold archetype come out on
Emily: top.
Yeah.
When you talked earlier about the
artsiness like the weird, you know,
this is a, this is an artsy Predator
movie prey that is I resonated with
that because, oh, you were also talking
about how, how we are introduced to
something of affects how we interpret it
later with that roak test kind of thing.
And for me, like I think about
alien and how the first alien
movie I saw was alien and how that
movie's very different from aliens.
And so there's this sort of divide in
aliens between, is it gonna be like
alien or is it gonna be like aliens?
And the Predator did have, especially in
like the, the second half of the original
Predator movie did have some really
more like, cinemagraphic consideration
taken as opposed to the, the action
buildup, plot vehicle that we were
getting to in the beginning of the movie
And uh, I've reminded of movies that
we saw recently, like resident evil,
welcome to raccoon city, where you have
references to the original material
that are, that have no rhyme or reason
that are completely like over the top.
And just pointless.
Like it's basically a collection
of references, whereas in Prey the
references to the original Predator
were so like folded in that you
didn't really notice that it was a
reference unless you had just seen,
like, I hadn't just seen Predator.
Cuz like I, I remember someone
mentioned something about a gun in
Predator two and I'm like, I don't
remember anything about a gun.
Ben: And then I realized
the end of Predator.
To some more Predators come and they're
like, Hey, Danny Glover uh, have a pistol.
Like you did good fight in one
of us, have a pistol as a prize.
David: That was the thing that
kind of threw me a little bit.
Tell me if I'm, if I'm
reading the movie wrong.
So she gets the pistol, the French
flintlock, and then a bunch of
other Predator ships come down.
Presumably I guess that means they
murder everybody and take the gun.
Ben: Well, we don't, I don't know.
I'm gonna say they in a fanfic way of me
still wanting a happy ending for uh, no.
Even though, I don't
think this it'd be cool.
If this movie wants to do a sequel
to her timeline, I don't think we
need a continuation of her story.
I think they can just
keep bouncing around.
I'm gonna fan Vicky my way out
of she defeats two of the ships.
One other, one of the ships is the last
ship decides to just get the fuck out.
But you know, they take some
pistols and some trophies, but
Naru herself drives them away.
Just some
Jeremy: trading, you know?
Emily: Yeah.
I
Ben: think that's ever since
trading team up and they just
find more French people to kill.
Jeremy: She doesn't like the pistol.
She can't ever use it.
So, clearly she's got an
affinity for the, the skull mask.
Ben: Yeah, she trade, trade
it for a sweet ass skull mask.
Jeremy: Yeah.
With the lights.
David: Yeah.
Makes sense.
I
Ben: wanna say, oh, I like this
explanation better that they
just come and do some casual
training and then fly away again.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: If we are following a Predator
pretext, then these pre, these ships would
come down and be like, damn good on you.
David: Yeah.
Ben: That's why.
Yeah.
Cause actually, yeah, in Predator
too, the more they've come and
they're like, oh, you did good.
So maybe as much as it was like post
credits, cliff hanger, maybe this is just
like the ending of Predator too, where
more of them come and are like, yeah.
Did good instead giving you
a pistol won, take a pistol.
Yeah.
Jeremy: Give a pistol, give a
pistol, take a pistol system.
David: Yeah, for me was like, I was I kept
thinking about the ending of Predator too,
where I was just like, oh, they gave Danny
Glover the gun as like a, as a trophy.
And I was kind of like, it should have
been that, you know, she kills the
Predators and then the other Predators
show up and like, they just take the gun.
Ben: But yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
I do think that there's a MIS like a
missed opportunity that this franchise
has had since Predator to where I really
think Danny Glover should show up in
every Predator movie in a completely
different role with no explanation.
David: One other thing that I, maybe you
guys would know this the science or the
background behind this, the one thing
that threw me out a little bit was um,
the flower that cools your blood that I
didn't know, like, is that like a thing
Ben: or, no, I, I don't know.
I didn't look it up, but
Emily: I, I don't think so.
I did look it up.
Okay.
So the flower that she is using, the
flower that she picks is a Merry gold.
Marigolds do have medicinal value.
But it is negligible.
They're mostly topical.
They do not cool your blood down.
Very few things.
Cool.
Your blood down that
much, that don't kill you.
Ben: Yeah.
Like I love how instantaneous it was too.
Like just eat a bunch of pets.
It's like, I'm so cold.
Emily: Yeah.
That, that was movie magic.
That was some McGuffin shit.
But like, which
Ben: is a little less, which I think
does make that particular element
a little less satisfying than a
discovering the mud in the first movie.
Yeah.
David: I'm sure they felt it was too
much of a repeat to do the mud again,
but I was like, oh, just do the mud.
It makes sense.
Emily: Honestly, it could have been
of a species of flour that isn't
used anymore or is, is extinct.
David: I said, I'll accept
this as a no, no prize answer.
Jeremy: Yeah.
So we kinda saw bones.
Let's get so bones on this
Ben: one.
Yeah.
Emily: My, my biggest issue with
this with was the use of the will
helm scream like that was it.
Ben: Okay.
I have no will hem scream is
also in the command she dub.
I know.
Right?
Like I noticed that I'm
like, cause at that point I.
You had to make the conscious
choice to keep the will Elm
scream in the command she dub.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I, what I wanna talk about a little bit
is Dan Trachtenberg as a director because
the man's only got two actual films
to his name and they're both non-SEC
SQLs that take big fucking chances
and have great female action leads.
It's this and 10 Clover field lane
which like going into 10 Clover
field lane, having seen Clover
field is a real, what the fuck?
Like it's like, what does this
have to do with that movie?
And you don't know the
answer until the end.
You know, they, they play
around with it a bit.
If you're, willing to buy in,
it's like, okay, well probably
this is what's going on.
But they don't answer that
question until the end.
And that's, I think both that movie
and Prey are really brave in this way
that like he's incredibly patient like
that, you know, they take so much time
to set up Naru as a character and to
set up the rest of her tribe and these
tribe, these trifling dudes that are
just fucking with her all the time and
her her tribe that like, just want to
give her shit about about being a girl
and that she's not supposed to be there.
And you know, she doesn't know what she's
doing and she's just along because, you
know, she's following her brother around.
And which by the way those guys go down,
like chumps, the whole lot of, oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
They get absolutely wasted.
But like, you know, both her and this
movie and you know, the, the lead
character in Tim Cloverfield lane are both
like really realistic female characters.
She's played by me, Elizabeth
Winstead, doing fantastic work again.
And
Ben: like they're both very Winstead.
Jeremy: Yeah.
They're both very well realized.
And like that story also is
incredibly patient with like, just
stringing you along and giving you
bits and pieces of it as it goes.
Which, you know, was, was
an incredible feature.
I think, of Prey that a
movie that is essentially.
A prequel to a movie about space monsters,
killing people that is willing to willing
to make you wait for the space monster.
For half of it, like fully half of
this movie before there's a real,
like hand to hand combat issue.
Ben: And the first real hand hand combat
we get is like Naru versus another one
of like her, the native American hunters.
Like one of the driving
scenes are so cool.
So good.
Like really good fight scenes.
Amber Midthunder is so good at the
hand to hand stuff like, oh, okay.
The fucking fight at the
camp where she's rescuing.
Sarii.
And it's all just a fucking single
take as she's just choreographed
knife, killing like five guys.
Yeah.
And she's amazing.
Like that was like John and
wick level choreography.
That was great.
Emily: Yeah, they had that single shot.
Oh
Ben: I was in love, like it's my, it was
it's jaw dropping of like, and it comes
right off the bat of like the Predator
just busting out creative kill after
creative kill, after creative kill.
When he throws the bear
trap at the one guy's head.
Amazing.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Yeah, that was, that was great.
Also, I don't know how much of it is
stunt work and how much of it is special
effects, but that like Tomahawk on
the rope that she uses, like that's
her like signature weapon in this
movie makes me so fucking anxious.
Every time she uses it.
I love it.
And they do it so brilliantly
when she's like, yeah.
Actually fighting dudes.
And in that, in that camp scene, she
does the throws it to one side hits the
guy in the face, pulls it back, throws
it to the other side and hits the guy.
And I was like,
Ben: oh shit.
It's so good.
Yeah.
That whole fight scene
is getting it so good.
David: I really liked that they, they
took a little bit of time to like, show
her, like thinking through like, how
does this, how might this thing work?
And then like showing her kind of
like playing around with it and
like kind of learning how it works.
Like, it didn't need to take
a lot of time, but it was just
enough that you're like, oh, okay.
Like, yeah, this makes sense.
Like, she's a smart person.
She's smart enough to figure out
the mechanism behind all this.
She's probably smart enough
to figure out how it works.
So that's why anytime I see like the
usual in cell crowd, like freaking out
about how could she figure out how to
use this, like Tomahawk on a string.
I'm like it was
Ben: in the movie.
Yeah.
I'm like, that's what they say that
you say you want your, the, to see her
training, this movie gives us multiple
scenes of her training and learn
and learning the skills she'll need.
David: I wish that there was a movie
that we could see her and Sarah Connor
and Ripley in the same movie together.
And I feel like with Terminator
time travel tech, that could happen.
It's
Ben: comic book.
I just wanna see Amber Midthunder
getting like more great action roles.
Yeah.
Like she's great.
Like give her a movie where she's a rookie
agent who gets like betrayed by Charlize
by her handler played by Charlize Theron.
And then it's Amber Midthunder
versus Charlize Theron.
Fucking give me this action movie.
Emily: To get into the
progressive politics of the movie.
One of the big themes of the movie is
underestimating, you know, or ignoring.
The abilities of your opponent in this
case, you know, underestimating a woman
or UN underestimating first nation people.
So you have, you know, the tribesmen
under underestimating Nauru, you have
the trappers underestimating, the
tribesmen, you have the the Predator
underestimating, Nauru And it's, I, it was
some really nice storytelling, symmetry.
And did have, I mean, did you were
saying earlier, Ben, about how
this movie the feminist of the
movie was kind of surface level?
Ben: You know, like got compared to
what, last week we covered last night
in Soho, which was a very ambitious,
deep dive in deconstruction of the male
gaze and long term trauma and identity.
And this movie I felt was a
little more, you're a girl.
We don't think you can do it.
We can, you can do traditionally
male thing, but then you use your
own skills to prove us wrong.
Like again, I think it's a little
look in terms of just being an
exploration of deep feminist themes.
I think it's a little like
just surface level, but also.
It's a solid, it's a great underdog story.
Like it's a solid,
compelling, underdog story.
Like it doesn't need to be a super
deep examination of gender politics.
Yeah.
Like that's fine.
That's okay.
Jeremy: I, I think that's a place
where, especially having Dan
Trachtenberg at the helm, it's like
intelligent to steer away from that.
Because to have them sort of critiquing
the like gender politics of people
from, you know, hundreds of years
ago in this, this nation, which.
He is already being threatened
by and will shortly be overrun by
uh, you know, at least as if not
more problematic in that, in the
same respects, European mass people.
You know, I don't think there's
any, any place to be trying to like
critique the finer points of that.
Totally.
If we even know the fine points
Ben: of that hundred percent,
hundred percent, and again, like,
look, this movie gives us a badass
awesome woman protagonist on like
this scale of like, of a Ripley.
Like this gives Predator a Ripley,
like fucking Naru is, goes in the
Pantheon of great action protagonists.
David: when I was watching it, I really
felt like she really feels like she
could go shoulder to shoulder with,
with a Ripley or a Sarah Connor and,
that's I mean, no small thing.
there are no shortage of uh, for
forgettable action movies out there
where, you know, people are just trying
to kind of do a star vehicle and you
know, people don't talk about them for
very long, but this really felt like one
of those movies where like there, there
was a lot of care and deliberate is put
into it and, and into the performance,
into the, into the narrative arc.
And it really, like, I'm
still thinking about it.
I mean, I saw it on Friday when
it came out or no, actually I
saw it Thursday night right.
As it dropped.
And I've still been thinking about
it cause I've just been so impressed.
It really like, it's such a,
it's such a good character arc.
and yeah, it's great for representation.
And it's great for just like seeing
just a new actress kind of seemingly
coming out of nowhere and just really
making this role our own and just
really just leaving it all out in the
field and making it really memorable.
Emily: Yeah.
I mean, in terms of representation and,
you know, the feminism and the progressive
politics of the movie, I mean, I, really,
I don't have the the knowledge to really
comment on how well it's represented, but
I can rep I can recognize that there's
a lot less exoticism going on than
previous installments of films and TV.
Uh, Discuss native American
and first nation people.
Yeah.
Ben: I'm definitely no expert,
no firsthand experience.
talking as a, just totally outside
observer who does not know what
the fuck they're talking about,
it seemed to me like it would be
like real good representation.
And at the very least I haven't
seen any shit storms on Twitter.
So that's a good sign that
they did something right.
Representation wise.
Cause I feel like if they
had done something wrong, I
would've heard call outs by now.
Yeah.
Well, and
Emily: I also appreciate that they
don't like, there's not a lot of deep
commentary, deep social commentary
other than the underdog story.
But I think that the story works also
because it's really important to recognize
that there's not a lot of difference
between people in terms of like people
have their their prejudices and people
have their failings and people have
their pride and their, and their talent.
Whether you grew up with working with
arrows or guns, it, you can be observant,
you can be proud, you can be, trying
to prove yourself to your family.
Uh, And I think that that's a
really important point to make
these characters as relatable.
And you know, there's not so much
I mean, the French are, Terrifying
and scary, but like, there's
still, we know why that is a thing
Ben: GRE.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But regardless of the context.
Yeah.
Not even talking about the movie.
Oh, geez.
Yeah.
I, I, I think on that
again, France, I love you.
I'm just a jerk.
Jeremy: They don't, they don't love you.
I, I
Ben: think like, oh, I know
they don't love me back.
I trust me.
I know I've been there.
Jeremy: Yeah.
On, on sort of that same context.
I think you know, we talked about, you
mentioned how the feminism is kind of
a surface level, but this movie has
an action movie heroin and makes no
attempt to sexualize her whatsoever.
Which is yeah.
Is impressive.
Like there's not even that weird
scene with Ripley at the end of
alien where she's walking around
in her ill footing underwear.
Like there's not even a thing like that.
It's like she is.
There is never a point where the camera
is shooting her in a, a compromising
way, in a way that like she would, she,
as a person would not want to be seen.
Ben: There's no.
Are you saying we don't get any Texas
chainsaw style, long tracking shots
focused entirely on character's butts.
Jeremy: I was gonna go with we don't get
any Joss Whedon shooting, wonder between
wonder woman's legs for no apparent
reason bits, but like, yeah, this movie
Emily: had a chance to do it too,
because when she went into that
mud pit, she was dirty as hell.
And then when she came out of it,
she was very much post washing,
Ben: which at no point you're
no, you're totally right.
And I'm so glad you're right.
Like, you know, you hit the nail
on the head, like you're totally
right about it at no point.
Is the movie ever seen Naru as anything
other than its action hero protagonist?
Jeremy: Yeah.
Nauru goes down a river
in her, Normal clothes.
Like she could very, like they have
every, every excuse they could need
to, sexualize her to show her in,
compromised or missing clothing
or bathing or something like that.
They don't, they do.
They just don't, it doesn't seem to
occur to the movie in a way that should
not seem as revolutionary as it does.
Just sitting here talking about it.
Emily: also the French, I will
say the French don't really
say anything sexual about her.
They, you know, it's dehumanizing
and it is racist, but they don't.
Yeah, they
Jeremy: do not use the opportunity
to have a, the threat of rape thrown.
Yeah.
I
Ben: was definitely worried about that.
And was relieved when
nothing of the sort happened.
Yeah.
In the dialogue it's like
you said, it's translated.
It's the kind of
opportunity that we've seen.
A lot of movies would choose to go
down that direction in a heartbeat.
And I hated every time and I'm
real glad this movie didn't do it.
Emily: I think that the most sexualizing
that the French characters did was
a joke that one of them said to the
other one about the dog where he said,
oh, is this one of your new blondes?
I didn't feel like the characters
were particularly sexualized.
I mean, Taabe was hot, but I
don't, I didn't feel like, you
Ben: know, no, there was not any, really
any needless sexualization in this movie.
He was less sexualized in Arnold.
Yes.
There was no needed sexualization
and there was there for
no needless sexualization.
Yeah.
They really fetishized Arnold's body.
I mean, come on that fucking handshake,
like high five between him and Carl
weathers where it's just like, yeah, yeah.
Closer on the listening muscles,
listening, those biceps harder
arms like there's a reason it's
always sunny in Philadelphia.
Use that movie to make fun of
like Mac being in the closet.
Jeremy: Yeah.
There.
So looking at our the few things we
haven't covered here, and we talked about
a little bit about that as movie deals
with race how it deals with feminism
It's no real implication that there
are queer people in this movie at all.
And I think part of
that is just the movie.
The movie has no interest in any sort
of romantic relationships whatsoever.
There aren't even any couples
that I can think of in this movie.
Ben: I mean, I will say what we get in
terms of class is showing just that,
like we talked about that we, this movie
does a good job of showing how capitalism
was such a driver of colonialism.
Mm-hmm now the French have no class.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Like I like widespread agriculture
might have been a mistake.
I don't know.
I'm not entirely convinced on this
whole modern civilization thing.
Well, the
Emily: the, the difference in
technology between the diff and the
difference of how like, and how that
technology is utilized, I feel like
there's some class commentary there.
And also the, the, the whole idea of
the underdog in this situation does
have some echoes of class commentary.
Ben: Yeah,
David: especially pronounced, you know,
I mean, even in the first Predator movie,
you know, like it's still Arnold with
like, what was considered like cutting
edge military technology at the time.
Yeah.
It's just like, you've got a Tomahawk
on a string and uh, and meanwhile,
the Predator is like cloaking itself.
And, you know, I bet there's an
argument to be made that even
though, like, we would consider like
his skull mask, like to be quote
unquote more primitive than like the
Predators we saw in the Arnold movies.
I bet there there's a read that like,
no, this guy just like, is cosplaying.
Like he S like a futuristic
Predator suit at home.
But he's like, oh, well, you know,
like I gotta get into character.
Ben: For what it's worth like for
as an insight into the Predator's
character, I did look it up and like
the monster designer, they specifically
said their name for this design or
this classification of Predator.
They called feral Predator.
Hmm.
Emily: I think they called, they had
some Predators and Predators that
were quote unquote feral Predators.
But I do feel like this
is a Coplay Predator.
Ben: I do love the one trapper who fucking
takes a whole minute to set up a shot.
And then an immediately Rick
shades right back at em there
Emily: in terms of, okay, I'm really
splitting hairs here, but in terms of
disability, the guy who plays Rafael, the
guy with the gun is definitely wearing
a mouthpiece to give him bigger teeth.
I don't know why that's necessary.
Yeah.
Ben: I don't know what's
going on with that.
And I will say pretty much like Raphael
is the main source of the Comanche
dub, not matching people's mouths.
Emily: Yeah.
Well, and he's also, I mean, he's,
he's supposed to be French, but
as the translation would have
him say his tongue is smart.
Ben: I mean the name Raphael a
would imply that he's supposed to
be like Italian and is just like
knows a shit ton of languages.
Yeah.
Along
Jeremy: with the riot with these
French bastards, I thought, yeah,
him being a feral Predator was just
a reference to his love of X force.
So
,
Ben: I mean, this looks like the
Predator who would be on X force.
Jeremy: Okay guys all that aside, do we
what do we say this movie's worth seeing?
Yes.
Emily: Fuck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: It's on Hulu.
Go watch it.
If you don't watch it a free, if
you don't have it, get the free
subscription and then you can cancel
after a month after the month,
like run, don't walk to your couch.
You don't have to go far.
See this movie
Emily: hit me up.
I will give you my Hulu info.
You can use my Hulu account.
Ben: Can do that.
Yeah, don't do that.
Don't don't don't don't just do that.
I'm not gonna share
Emily: my Hulu
Ben: info I know I read, I know,
I know we don't have the biggest
audience, but still gonna advise again,
Jeremy: Sharon, how don't
you listen to fishing, Dave?
Patista you can get all of them together.
Get Hulu and Disney plus, and I guess
ESPN, I don't know who watches the
ESPN streaming service, but subscribe
Emily: to our Patreon.
You'll get a subscription to Hulu
Ben: oh, no.
Not CNN plus.
Jeremy: So we, we do think all of
you should check this out, but what
else do we recommend people check
out if they enjoyed this movie?
David, did you have a
recommendation for somebody for
David: something?
Yeah.
For people who, who like this movie.
Boy I mean, obviously Terminator aliens
any of the previous Predator movies.
But you know, I think, I think if
you're a fan of things like atomic
blonde you know, like stylish female
driven action movies you'll, I think
you'll really dig this one, but yeah.
You know, it's sort of the
mashup of historical action.
It, it really does feel
like it's its own thing,
Ben: for sure.
So very, oh, that's a very fun
movie with lots of good action.
Yeah.
Jeremy: Emily, what have
you got to recommend?
Emily: Well, my, I was going to make
a joke and recommend the YouTube
video Predator of the musical.
But my actual real recommendation
is to go if you're on Hulu, you
might as well kind of walk over
there and watch reservation dogs.
Which is a really cool, fun and
serious native American made and
cast story about kids growing up
on a reservation in Oklahoma and
their, their experiences there.
And it's it's good.
It's really good.
It will make you laugh.
It'll make you cry.
Jeremy: Absolutely.
Yeah, I can second that one.
Love it.
And if you're a fan of, you know,
Pago with TD, he's got his hand
in there and the, the writing
and producing of that as well.
So yeah, the humor is cutting, but
also there's some, some serious and
poignant stuff in there as well.
Emily: Yeah.
He's mostly the producer it's actually
like most of it is the the producer,
the, the creator himself is from
Oklahoma to Grove over conservation.
So, yeah it's really good.
Jeremy: Ben, what have you got?
Ben: I am going to recommend the manga
and anime Golden Kamuy which is about
fighting for secret gold hidden by hidden
in Hoka at the turn of the 20th century.
And it is a, another story full of
really strategic, yet low tech action.
That also deals pretty heavily
with the issues pertaining to the
indigenous people of Hoka that I knew.
Yes.
Yeah.
So if you want more indigenous
survival action drama with some
more great indigenous people's
representation, check out golden Kaly.
Jeremy: Now my recommendation is going
to be for people who watch this movie.
And got excited to watch the
Predator just absolutely Massac
occurring imperialists as they
charge their way across the, the us.
Because this last week I finally
finished the film R R R which is an
Indian film theoretically the name
R R R stands for rise or revolt.
It is on Netflix right now.
It is absolutely the wildest campiest most
over the top action film I have ever seen.
It is hard to describe
how wild this movie is.
I thought it had peaked at two guys diving
off of different sides of the bridge,
attached to a rope and then catching
each other in a handshake underneath it.
I thought that was as wild as
it was going to get until Amen.
Threw a Jaguar at another man.
in this movie.
I so
Ben: have to see this movie.
Oh my God.
I have to see all hours so much.
Yes.
Yeah.
Jeremy: It's long.
It's three hours and seven minutes.
It does not feel a second over
two hours, 90 minutes of the most,
because it interweaves between
wild fight scenes and Bollywood
sing, Dan singing, dancing numbers.
And like it is so incredible because
like, it, it's a story of two Indian
revolutionary who find themselves on sort
of the opposite side of this conflict and
end up not knowing who the other one is.
As they're both like searching, like
one of them is trying to catch the
other one and they end up becoming best
friends, not knowing who each other.
And then have to, or
pitted against each other.
And then you know, it, it
obviously comes back around.
But it's the most incredible action
movie that occasionally breaks
into an incredible dance number
all, all with the same actors.
So like I cannot recommend
this movie enough.
There's a lot of CGI, a lot of the like
violence goes back and forth between
crazy martial arts and absolutely insane.
CGI.
There are a lot of fake animals
killed or injured in this movie, but
never in like a mean spirited way.
Like in a, one of these guys,
occasionally wrestles tigers kind of way.
But it's, it's an
absolutely incredible movie.
It's on Netflix now.
I cannot recommend it enough.
Emily: I'm really stoked.
I'm really, I've been wanting to
watch this movie forever and I
just found out it was on Netflix.
Ben: From what understand a
brilliant piece of filmmaking,
that I also very much want to see.
But I just do know that apparently
there are some of its political
messages are worth looking more deeply
into and finding out about yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
There is like the final
dancer over this movie.
They definitely have like a lot of like
anti British pro India propaganda, but
there is a lot of like these real people
being sort of put on pedestals like that.
You know, I, I think as, as somebody who's
seen enough of that on the American side
may, may not be altogether uh, necessarily
how you want to treat your war heroes.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: You know, when the main character
changes into his final costume and
it's a costume with a lot of cultural
religious significance, and it also
happens to be in the colors of a
prominent far right party in India.
Like apparently there's like
stuff like that, just based off
there's some articles I've read.
Like I do not know, like, I
know nothing about the politics.
I just know that apparently
wonderful piece of filmmaking, but
possibly worth digging deeper and
making sure not coming away with
any accidental negative messages.
Jeremy: Yeah.
He's he is just from getting around,
dressed as Rama for a significant
portion of the end of the movie.
So like, yeah, there's, it's a lot
and it's it's way over the top.
So I'm sure there is some, some messaging
in there that is maybe a bit stronger
in what we would, again, what we would
endorse if it were our own politics.
Ben: Yeah.
I don't know the politic
the political situation.
Well, I'm still very much wanna
see the movie, but Hey, we're
Progressively Horrified, digging
too deep into politics of stuff
is what we're supposed to do here.
Emily: There's no such things too deep.
Jeremy: Yes.
Absolutely.
Ben: That's what They said.
Jeremy: To go ahead and wrap this
up, David, can you let people know
where they can find you online
and find out more about your work?
David: Yeah.
You can follow me on Twitter
and Instagram @PeposeD.
It's my last name, first initial
or David Pepose comics on Facebook.
Uh, You can also subscribe
to my newsletter.
Pep talks at bit dot slash pep news,
or is my website at davidpepose.com.
Nice, awesome.
Jeremy: As for the rest
of us, you can find
emily@megamothontwitterandmega_mothoninstagramandatmega.net.
Ben is on Twitter at BenTheKahn and
on their website@BenKahnComics.com,
where you can pick up all their
books, including a mortals,
Phoenix, rising and Renegade rule.
And finally for me, you can find
me on Twitter and Instagram at
Jerome five eight, and on my
website@jeremywhitley.com, where you
can check out everything I write.
And of course the podcast is on Patreon.
It Progressively Horrified our
website@progressivelyhorrifieddottransistor.fm
and on Twitter product horror pod,
where we would love to hear from you.
And speaking of loving to hear from
you, we would love for you to rate
interview this podcast forever.
You listen to it.
Five stars helps us find more listeners.
And thanks so much again
to David for joining us.
It was, it was really a pleasure,
David: sir.
Oh, it's my pleasure.
Thanks so much for having me and excited
to chat about this movie with you.
Anytime.
Emily: Come on
Ben: back, please.
Yes, we would love to have you back.
This was super fun.
Getting to talk with you about this.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Of course,
Jeremy: and thanks to Ben and Emily as
always, and thanks to all of you for
listening and until next time horrified.
Alicia: Progressively Horrified
is created by Jeremy Whitley
and produced by Alicia Whitley.
This episode featured Jeremy
Ben, Emily and David Pepose.
All opinions expressed by the
commentators are solely their own
and do not represent the intent or
opinion of the filmmakers nor do they
represent the employers, institutions,
or publishers of the commentators.
Our theme music is epic darkness
by Mario Cole oh six and was
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If you like this episode you can support
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Thanks for listening Bye.