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Seth Holehouse is a TV personality, YouTuber, podcaster, and patriot who became a household name in 2020 after his video exposing election fraud was tweeted, shared, uploaded, and pinned by President Donald Trump — reaching hundreds of millions worldwide.
Titled The Plot to Steal America, the video was created with a mission to warn Americans about the communist threat to our nation—a mission that’s been at the forefront of Seth’s life for nearly two decades.
After 10 years behind the scenes at The Epoch Times, launching his own show was the logical next step. Since its debut, Seth’s show “Man in America” has garnered 1M+ viewers on a monthly basis as his commitment to bring hope to patriots and to fight communism and socialism grows daily. His guests have included Peter Navarro, Kash Patel, Senator Wendy Rogers, General Michael Flynn, and General Robert Spalding.
He is also a regular speaker at the “ReAwaken America Tour” alongside Eric Trump, Mike Lindell, Gen. Flynn.
Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Holehouse. So speaking of a world gone mad, my guest today, doctor Kirk Moore, is the pinnacle, the example of what happens in a world that has truly gone mad. Doctor Kirk Moore, is now under investigation, and he's going to trial. He's being, targeted by the DOJ and also, you know, through, like, the HHS.
Speaker 1:I think the FBI was involved. There's a whole host of agencies that have been targeting him, not because he was an evil doctor that was harming people or scamming people or abusing patients while they were under anesthesia. No. He's being targeted and potentially facing up to thirty five years in prison for saving over two thousand people from getting the COVID vaccine that we now know has caused turbo cancers, you know, sudden death, myocarditis, autoimmune disorders. The list just goes on and on and on That there's over two thousand people that were because their kids had to go to school or because of their work that they had vaccine mandates, that he gave them an option to take a saline shot instead of the vaccine, quote, unquote, vaccine that we now know has caused catastrophic damage to humanity.
Speaker 1:And he offered them a way out by allowing them to take a saline shot instead and still be able to go to school, still be able to keep their job, etcetera. And yet now he is being targeted. In the past couple of years, he's been intensely targeted as really, I would say, a a a as a political example of what happens when someone goes against the medical system. And, again, he's facing up to 35 in prison for this, which is absolutely mind blowing. It's not like he lied to his patients and say that they wanted the COVID vaccine, and he gave them something instead.
Speaker 1:These are people that he was fully transparent. He said, look. Here's the, the vaccine insert right here. Nothing on there. So he explained the risk.
Speaker 1:He, you know, he gave his patients informed consent, and he did something that I look as being very brave and courageous, and he offered them a solution to still allow their kids to stay in school or allow them to keep their job that didn't involve injecting this mRNA technology into their bodies, and he's being targeted for it. And so I came across this story on Twitter, and I saw a lot of people that I was following, you know, big kind of medical voices, you know, freedom fighting doctors sharing this. And I reached out to him, and he was familiar with my show, thankfully, and and he agreed to come on. And so this is a really important story for us to get out because his his trial is in less than a month. He he's gonna be going to trial for this.
Speaker 1:And, again, they're gonna be trying to put him away for up to thirty five years with with some kinds of crazy charges, like, you know, defrauding the federal government by, you know, getting these $30,000 worth of vaccines and not using them. And, I mean, it it just this case, there's no precedent for this. I mean, again, he's not someone that was harming and maiming his his patients or practicing without a license. He's someone that was following the oath of what it means to be a doctor and and doing no harm and giving patients informed consent. And so what a brave man.
Speaker 1:What a courageous man. But today's interview is gonna be just walking you through his story, what it was like for him in the early days of COVID. You know, what led to him actually choosing to do this? What was the process of, how he got caught? What's crazy is that they literally did a sting operation on him.
Speaker 1:Same way that you'd see with, like, a drug deal or you hear about this with the FBI infiltrating a terror cell, and they do a sting operation. They got someone undercover that, you know, the the potential terrorist agrees, hey. Let's make a bomb together, and they arrest them. So they literally did a sting operation on this guy to confirm that he was giving his patients an options an option to not take some experimental gene therapy, some, you know, DNA modifying mRNA technology. He gave them an option to do something safe.
Speaker 1:And so this is his story. I hope that you enjoy this interview. I hope that you can, with whatever your capacity is, that you can help, stand behind doctor Moore, whether it's sharing this interview or, donating to his, his legal fund or whatever it is that you can do, passing this along to the right people. Like, hopefully, that we can have this interview go viral enough that some people higher up in the DOJ, catch wind of it, and maybe they can step in, because this this persecution of him started under the Biden administration. And, unfortunately, it didn't stop under the Trump administration.
Speaker 1:So even though we've got, you know, Pam Bondi and RFK and, you know, Cash Patel and people that are in these major positions, he's still being treated the same way that he was a couple of years ago and still facing these egregious charges. So before we jump in, just a quick few notes. First off, if you like to listen to podcasts instead of watching the video format, just a reminder that every show I do is done as a podcast. So if you get a very podcast app, search for Man in America, you'll find me on there. And, also, if you're watching this on Rumble or any platform that allows you to like or give it a thumbs up or leave a comment, please do.
Speaker 1:It always helps us to reach more people since we're heavily shadow banned. Actually, I just found out last night. My my wife, Kate, called me. I was out running an errand. She discovered that we're shadow banned on on Telegram.
Speaker 1:So Telegram, the app which I thought was like the bastion of free speech and wow. Okay. They're allowing us, you know, especially early on during the COVID stuff when a lot of us got kicked off of Twitter and other places. Telegram was a great place to go and build a community. We found out that, you know, on Telegram, that we're shadowbanned.
Speaker 1:If you go on there you search for Man in America, the show doesn't even come up. And so it's really the only way that we can reach people is, you know, through people like you watching and and sharing, because the algorithms and the the big platforms, they don't like this information getting out because we're questioning we're questioning the system. That is not good. So please, enjoy the interview now with doctor Kirkmore. So you've heard me talk about macrobiotic seasonal eating, how aligning your diet with the seasons and eating real local food can transform your health.
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Speaker 1:Doctor Moore, it's an honor to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Well, hi, Seth. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So your story is a very, very important story for us to get out right now for a lot of reasons. But instead of me trying to tell your story or my understanding of it, why don't you walk us through just the the story of you being a doctor, what you saw happening with the COVID kind of vaccines or shots, how you handled it, and and and really kind of what's led us up here today. So if you sort of walk through your story, I might jump into some questions, but your story is so important that I really wanna hear it coming from you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, my story starts just like anybody else. I mean, there's there's obviously a history behind me, but my story with COVID started obviously in 2020, and I was no different than I don't think most other people out there, the vast majority of other people. I was hearing stories in January, February of this, you know, deadly virus that had started in China that was killing people, that, people were dying by the hundreds and, seeing pictures of the, you know, the deaths and the the what do you call it? When they the crematoriums and everything else in China and all of the hotspots that they were showing on TV.
Speaker 2:And so I was just kind of like, okay, keeping it peripherally, but I'm somebody that when I'm a plastic surgeon, so when I operate in the Operating Room, I actually listen to podcasts. So and I tend to listen to kinda current event podcasts, and so I was hearing about this while I was operating. So then you start hearing about lockdowns. You start seeing all that stuff about all those people that were dying supposedly in Italy and Spain. The first cases that hit the West Coast and then hit New York.
Speaker 2:You know, lockdowns are coming. The governor of Utah says, hey. We're gonna shut down such and such a date. Think it was, like, March, boy, twenty first, twenty second, something like that. And so on a Tuesday, and I believe it was March 16, I went home after surgery, saw something, I don't remember specifically what it was, but again along those same lines, and I called my office manager said, Hey, they're gonna shut us down next week anyway, let's just call it and cancel everything, you know, postpone all our surgeries.
Speaker 2:I'll have somebody go into the office just to kinda be there, but we're gonna close the doors and everything else. I mean, my, you know, my my logic at that point was I had a and what when twenty nineteen, I had a 11 year old and a 15 year old daughter. So an 11 year old son and a 15 year old daughter that I'm raising by myself. And so I just didn't wanna put them in any danger by me being exposed to somebody, you know, somebody that's presumably coming into my office infected. Right?
Speaker 2:That's that was my mentality. So, starting with that night, knowing I didn't have anything else to do, I just got nothing to do but sit here. I'm I'm talking to you on the same laptop that I was doing all that research on. I just started doing research. I had already heard a little bit about a guy by name of doctor Vladimir Zelenko.
Speaker 2:You know, I I don't again, timing is a little bit off because I didn't I didn't journal everything, but, I had heard about him and treating and treatment, and and so I just started researching. And so I'm already in tune. I'm a conservative guy, kind of libertarian leaning. And so I get certain newscasts and news posts and emails in my inbox and everything else. So I start getting all this stuff.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you within so from that Tuesday afternoon to probably Thursday morning, Wednesday afternoon, Thursday morning, I did a one eighty. I was ready to open my office back up. I was ready to go back to work. I was just like, this is just a bunch of BS. You know, I'm like I said, I'm I'm I hated microbiology when I was in medical school and college.
Speaker 2:I just thought it was something that I just had to check the box and get through and take my test and manage it and everything else. I'm not gonna be an infectious disease doctor. I don't care. You know, I'm just gonna look at the lab results. Somebody sends me something sensitive to this antibiotic, hey, that's what I'm going give them.
Speaker 2:But, you know, when I realized, you know, that this was just nothing but, you know, scare tactics and fake, and everything else. I think the first red flag to me was, the major red flag was, hey, we have no treatment for this, just go home. And when you're really sick and you're dying, you need to call an ambulance, and you can barely take a deep breath, then come into the hospital and we'll treat you. That to me was so antithetical to the practice of medicine is the way I knew it, and I've talked about this before. It's kind of like me telling a patient of mine that finds a lump on her breast to wait, to not do anything about the lump, okay, that either she feels or is noticed on a mammogram or whatever, to wait till it erodes through the skin and your breast is falling off and then at that point we'll treat you.
Speaker 2:That was the analogy that I took because it applied directly to what my practice of medicine and practice in surgery had always been, and so I just, it didn't make any sense to me, and that to me just was kind of like, hey wait a minute, why are we doing this? You know, we're not treating people. Why not Advil? Why not Tylenol? Why aren't we giving them antibiotics?
Speaker 2:People can give people with the flu antibiotics all the time. So why are we not treating people? So that was kind of the very beginning of, you know, where we were.
Speaker 1:And so what happened once you saw the vaccine rollout kind of unfold? Because I remember back because I started this show in 2020, and so I I remember, you know, some of the earlier interviews that were going really viral, you know, among the the places I was looking. Right? Some of the interviews with, like, Sherry Tenpenny or doctor Peter McCullough or Zelenko, doctor Zelenko, when they're talking about, you know, basically, all the red flags they were seeing in these, quote, unquote, vaccines. Right?
Speaker 1:And not to mention that the, you know, the the things like hydroxychloroquine and different treatments were being completely demonized and and mocked. So, of course, there was no treatment, so it was issued to the EUA so they could roll this thing out to the public. But as you as you saw the vaccine kind of being prepared and then and then rolled out, what what was your stance on that, and what were you thinking and and and just watching?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, you know, I had mentioned before the first red flag to me was, you know, hey. We don't have any treatment. Wait till you're dying and then you come into the hospital. The second red flag to me was we're not going to get anywhere until we put a needle in everybody's arm that's walking the face of this earth.
Speaker 2:And I started medical school in 1989, and I got shingles from my first hepatitis B vaccine. So I have not had a I've had one vaccine since then, that was the yellow fever shot in order to get to Africa for a couple of humanitarian trips, but that's it. So I was very skeptical. My my daughter is partially vaccinated. We I wasn't fully, I guess, in the term now is the anti vaccine network, you know, people.
Speaker 2:But and was never really anti vaxxed. I never really kind of, like, railed against it. I just said, hey, I just don't think it worked for me. I don't think it works for everybody. My daughter was being partially vaccinated and then she got some sort of vague abdominal pain a couple of days after her, I don't know, she's two years old.
Speaker 2:I can't remember what vaccine she got, but a couple of days after that, we ended up in Children's Hospital and they wanted to take her gallbladder out. I'm like, on a two year old? Yeah, no thanks. Hard pass. So at that point, that kind of turned me around.
Speaker 2:So that was like 2,005 ish range. But, so when I, you know, again, with that background and with me having treated people with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin and steroids and everything else through 2020, because that's what I was doing, and because nobody else was doing it, and I had one hundred percent success rate. Never had anybody go to the hospital, never had been, kind of like Doctor. Zyngco had, had anybody go to the hospital, Doctor. Brian Tyson out in California.
Speaker 2:Sherry Tenpenny was somebody that I was following from back in the early 2000s regarding vaccines. So yeah, it was all of that. So when I hear that, I'm kinda like, No. This isn't gonna work. You know, Gert Van den Bosch is talking about, you know, a non sterilizing vaccines.
Speaker 2:You never vaccinate into, you know, a quote, unquote pandemic. I mean, at this point, we didn't even have a pandemic. It was not treated, you know. I mean, I think when we had shutdowns here in March, when oh, sorry. In early February when they called the, what is it called?
Speaker 2:Primary they call it fake with, the World Health Organization, P H E I C, public health concern, public health emergency of international concern, right? Which I think is really interesting that it's the that if you spell it out, it's called fake, right? So when they announced that, there had been one death, one, and worldwide. And so if you look at the chronology, and there's a there's a guy that has a chronology up online, Eric Coppolino. I don't know if you've heard of him.
Speaker 2:He keeps a website, and he documents that, you know, the the the day by day, kinda and I I just found this recently, so it's not like I was following it back then. But, anyway, but there had been there was one death. And so we have all of this stuff when they announced this, you know, kind of fake COVID vaccine or fake COVID, you know, pandemic, there had been a total of one death. There have been some hospitalizations in a country of 1,400,000,000 people where they have hundreds of thousands of people with pneumonia every year. Again, this is all hindsight.
Speaker 2:So, you know, vaccines come around. I'm already skeptic, and I'm like, there's no way. You know? We don't have vaccine. We've been trying to get a vaccine for cancer for a hundred years.
Speaker 2:We've been trying to get a vaccine for AIDS for the last forty. And you're telling me that in January of this year, you know, you guys have this, you know, deadly virus that is some mutated form of something that either came out of a lab or was you know, some pangolin was messing with a bat and, you know, came up with this, you know, kind of weird concoction of something, and all of a sudden, you're gonna get a vaccine for this and solve a viral illness that has been around since mankind was, you know, since before mankind, and you're going to do this in nine months. And I was like, you know, no, that's just not going to happen. So I'm on the periphery. So this is, you know, November, December, December 20, they launched it, and they, you know, first come out to the health care workers because they're the ones that are most at risk, which is really interesting because they're the ones that weren't dying during COVID, but they were taking care of all these people that were supposedly infected.
Speaker 2:And, then at the January, we had seven hundred deaths that had been reported to VAERS, you know, and, like, I think nineteen thousand or so, you know, severe adverse events reported to VAERS in one month. Call it six weeks if you want to from December 20. And I was just like, they're gonna shut this thing down. You know, they had they had fifty deaths in, you know, with the swine flu in the mid seventies. I was 10 years old.
Speaker 2:They'll they'll shut this down, you know, and they didn't, and they kept pushing, they kept going. And, you know, now they're, you know, in the background, you're hearing mandates. And, you know, Donald Trump was president in 2020, and then Biden gets elected, you know, Kamala Harris and Joe Biden are like, I will never take this vaccine. And then all of a sudden, they're talking about mandating it for all of mankind. So and I we start, you know, progressing, and it's just as deadly, and you're hearing all these reports.
Speaker 2:Nobody's paying any attention. You know, lawsuits happening, lawsuits getting dropped, and, you know, school is out, but they're starting to talk about, okay, what's gonna happen for school next year? They start talking about mandating it for kids to go to school. I start having my patients coming to me that I had treated for COVID, and their families worried that, you know, they, hey, didn't want their kids to get these vaccines. So, I called the Utah health department or or emailed them, said, hey.
Speaker 2:I'd like to become a vaccine clinic, and, opened up my doors to, vaccinating people for COVID in May, June of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1:So you basically then became a vaccine clinic, and but you had all these, you know, these patients coming to you saying, look. They they they didn't wanna get the COVID vaccine. And so how did you you handle that? Because this then ties us into where we are today with the DOJ coming after you. Right?
Speaker 1:So this is where this is where, like, you know, the the story arc, it takes this wild twist, and and the real kind of battle, opens up here. So what what were you doing? So so that you knew was saying, hey. Look. You know, doctor Moore, I'm I'm kinda hesitant about this COVID vaccine.
Speaker 1:Should I get it? You know, my they're saying my kids had to have it to go to school. You obviously, you know, been following, say, doctor Timpenny for some time. You you knew what it was. You weren't one of those doctors that, you know, got his first shot in his booster, then found out two years later, oh my goodness, this was really bad, and how many did I get out?
Speaker 1:So how did you approach that?
Speaker 2:Well, I approached it the way I approach anything else in medicine. When I have somebody coming in, I'm a cosmetic surgeon, I have somebody comes in that wants breast augmentation, I sit them down, I, you know, do an exam, I, you know, evaluate them, I hear what it is that they're interested in doing, and I talk to them about what the pros and cons are. I give them full informed consent. I tell them what the issues are, what implants are, what the complications are, what the potential risks are, both short term, long term, because we have forty, fifty years of data about breast implants. So we can give them a very, you know, kind of an informed, we have a very informed discussion with them about the risks of auto immune diseases, the risk of cancer, the risk of infection, the risk of kind of having what's called capsular contraction, is hardening around the implants and what happens when we do that, how do we address that.
Speaker 2:So that's just the way I do it, it's the way I've always done medicine, we should be doing informed consent, and I, you know, we're not doing informed consent when we inject a product that we don't even have the list of ingredients that we don't have anything on, that when you look at the safety data sheet that comes with the vaccine, it says intentionally left blank on it because it's all proprietary information. And you show that to your patients, it's kind of like me saying here, let me put this breast implant in. I don't know what it is. I have no idea what it does. I don't know whether it's going to explode.
Speaker 2:I don't know whether it's going to give you cancer. I don't know whether it's going to give you autoimmune diseases, but it could look really well. It could look really good if everything goes okay. So again, just like I was using the analogy before of having a lump on your breast and everything else, I just applied this to my own practice of medicine. And so when you explain that to people, even whether they're coming to you wanting that procedure done, or whether they come to you already skeptical of what it is, then you both come to that decision.
Speaker 2:And like I said, mainly in the summer of twenty one, it was for the kids. And, you know, a little bit later that year, I think, I don't know, August, September, they started mandating it for, you know, for federal employees. OSHA came out with their mandate. They mandated it for health care workers. I think Texas Methodist was the first hospital in the country to mandate it for all of their employees, not just their kind of public facing healthcare employees, and they struggle with that.
Speaker 2:So I just, I provided full informed consent my patients and then we proceeded with, kind of giving them, you know, what we discussed was, you know, an option, and the option at that time was just a saline shot as a, you know, as kind of a control. The main reason for that was I didn't want a 12, 13 year old kid going to school and saying, you know, hey, here's, you know, and having them get in trouble. They're not in trouble, but, discussing it with their friends and saying, I never I never got a shot. So I so I gave them a shot.
Speaker 1:So basically, you saw the the the potential harm of this. And not just the harm, but just the lack of transparency. Right? You made a good point about the implants, or it's almost like be if I'm buying, say, a a $30, you know, scale for my espresso machine. Right?
Speaker 1:I'm looking at Amazon. I'm reading reviews. I'm seeing, okay. How does it work? Is this gonna be a good thing for me?
Speaker 1:I research it. Right? Like like most of us do. Yet you have this experimental, you know, vaccine, quote, unquote vaccine, that it's like, imagine, you know, being forced to buy something. It's okay.
Speaker 1:You have to go buy this, but it's like, well, there's no reviews. There's no description. Like, how do I even know what it what it is or what it does? Right? So, like, you know, most people
Speaker 2:I have a $130.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Right? And that's just I mean, it's such a simple analogy that people will put they'll spend more time researching and spending, you know, a tiny purchase on Amazon than actually looking at what they're injecting into their body. And so what you were doing, as I understand it, is obviously, you know, sharing the information of what you've what you've probably seen, the results of VAERS data, but then, you know, okay. Here's your here's your intentional blank.
Speaker 1:Here's your sheet of paper that tells you what's in this. Oh, there's nothing on there. Right? Which is, you know, from what I understand is, like, that's not common in the medical industry. And so, you came to the conclusion that this is potentially harmful, and but you wanted to give people an option to, you know, give them saline instead.
Speaker 1:And, so they they would still be able to, you know, have their papers. Right? Like, okay. Hey. Look.
Speaker 1:You know, here's my I did get this shot, etcetera. So, I mean, well, for one, I I I congratulate you for just your your courage and your discernment. I mean and I know that you're we'll get into what's happening with with the DOJ and everything, and and just keep, you know, keep in mind that if there's anything that you wanna say, hey, Seth, I can't talk about that because of, you know, legal issues, I completely respect that. Right? Because I know that, you know, this obviously is a very sensitive issue.
Speaker 1:So how many do you how many of those saline shots did you end up administering? Like, how many people did you save from potential death, stroke, heart issues, autoimmune disorders, etcetera?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I ordered, just under 2,000 vaccines from the Utah health department. So that's what the you know, you you mentioned it. That that's what we're at. The the federal government in January of twenty three indicted us, four of us.
Speaker 2:So myself, my business actually, five. So four people in my business. So myself, my office manager, another employee of mine, and a neighbor of mine that had gotten, you know, got involved. His name her name is Chris, and then my business. So in January 23, they showed up.
Speaker 2:They confiscated with a search warrant. They shot there were 10 or 11, you know, federal officers lined up along the stair the stairway, kind of, again, show of force, unnecessary, some of them wearing vests, some of them not, and confiscated my phone and the phone of my office manager. And we didn't know anything at the time, I called my attorney who was not a criminal attorney, just a real estate guy. And and we, you know, gave him our phones. The week later, we find out through the news that we had been indicted.
Speaker 2:And then a week or so after that, we have our arraignment. Never got served. We never got arrested. And it's been a kind of a bug in my craw since then, because, you know, you hear of people being let off because the process wasn't done properly at times. So, so anyway, and I I went down that rabbit hole.
Speaker 2:We can talk about that in just a little bit, but, so, you know, that's the, you know, that's the story. So between May of twenty one and October ish of twenty two, we ordered, about, 2,000 just under 2,000 vaccines from the Utah health department.
Speaker 1:And so, basically, then then at some point, federal agents show up, and and you you get hit by this freight train of, like, oh my gosh. What's happening? How how did they how did they discover you were doing this? Like, what what what what was it even tipped them off to to understand what what was happening here? This month, Tax Network USA proudly celebrates American Pride Month, honoring freedom, resilience, and financial independence.
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Speaker 2:Yeah. I have to be careful about that because, it's in my discovery, and I'm not and it's protected. So, I mean, let's just put it this way. They found out somehow, and they ran a sting operation. So they sent somebody in, and they ended up getting a card without a shot even, I think.
Speaker 2:And then they she sent in it was a female, and then she sent in her boyfriend, to also come in and get a shot. They questioned us about what we were doing with kids, and how we were addressing that. And, and then that was kinda middle middle summer spring summer of twenty twenty two. And so then a year later, they kinda put everything together.
Speaker 1:So they ran a sting operation on you with, like, basically, kind of like an inform not not informant. Right? Like, you you you, what do you what do you call those people that are, the ones that kinda go undercover to to catch you in
Speaker 2:the crime? Right? So an undercover, you know, undercover police officer that ran a sting operation, you know, kind of, you know, came in. And the interesting thing about it is the second police officer that came in so we get indicted. Two police officers can confirm what it was that we are doing.
Speaker 2:And in January of this year, so six months ago, they had to redo their indictment because sometime last fall, the second police officer that came in got busted for selling bath salts. So selling, you know, drugs worth probably hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars, k, that he was stealing from the confiscated, you know, stash of, you know, drugs that they were finding. So, basically, he was moving it from one location to another, and then he was the middleman making the money. So they had to take out that part of the on their indictment that, you know, they had a corroborating, you know, witness or corroborating, story of a second.
Speaker 1:Gosh. And so so were these local police officers, or were these, like, were these federal agents?
Speaker 2:They were federal. That it was a it was a task force. It was the FBI. It was the OIG's office of, the HHS, and it was the Department of, you know, so DHS was another agency, and I think that DEA was involved peripherally, but, I you know? So yeah.
Speaker 2:So we you know, like I said, they've spent millions of dollars, untold numbers of hours to come after me and my staff and my neighbor over $28,000 of fraud. So, it's an interesting argument. I mean, it's interesting to look at it. So There are no there are no laws. Sorry.
Speaker 2:I interrupted you. Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Oh, no. I was just gonna ask. Okay. So you said I'll kind of follow what you were saying real quickly, then I have different questions. So you're saying there are no laws, right, or precedent for this because it's like, yeah, I guess what would this kind of be considered?
Speaker 1:It's like, So clients coming in, a patient comes in, they this is thing about legally. Right? Okay. You know, typically, you know, doctors get in trouble because they they drug their patients and they molest them while they're, you know, under anesthesia or something. Right?
Speaker 1:Something terrible. But this Well,
Speaker 2:prescriptions or write narcotics.
Speaker 1:There you go. Right?
Speaker 2:Patient who then goes out and sells them, you know, and, you know, those kinds of things, right? So that's, you know, that Those are the those are the things that docs get in trouble for.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But not not like the patient comes in to get a vaccine and they consent to receiving saline instead. Right? Like, I I don't imagine there's a there's a a big book of, you know, precedent for this. Right?
Speaker 1:And so is it is the DOJ, is this the main kinda agency that's coming after you? And Well, now it is. Yeah. So now it's turned over obviously to,
Speaker 2:you know, the the DOJ to prosecute this. And, you know, and so they're the ones that are kind of, you know, going down this road. So they're the ones that are prosecuting me. They're the ones that are, in my opinion, persecuting me just because of my, they claim that it's a political statement. It has nothing to do with politics.
Speaker 2:It's just purely medicine. They're the ones that are bringing politics into it. And so, yeah, I mean, it's it's just it's kinda you know, the they have to try to shoehorn in some sort of violation into another statute. So what they're trying to say is that I defrauded the government of $28,000 worth of their product. And what they're saying is we paid for that product.
Speaker 2:And then the the
Speaker 1:With our taxpayer money, by the way.
Speaker 2:Right? So whose money is it? Exactly. You know I mean? So and I know that you and I kind of are on that same level type of you know?
Speaker 2:But it's kinda like, yeah. So whose money are you using? Did you use your own money? So and if you did, where did you make it? K?
Speaker 2:How did you make your money to then buy this vaccine? I mean, we can get into all the other stuff on how the production of the vaccine was done and all the stuff with Sasha Ladopova and all the stuff with, you know, Katherine Watt and, you know, this being a full on DOD operation to begin with and, you know, and then them calling up Pfizer and having them slap their label on the, you know, on the bottle and saying, hey. You know, we'll give this to you, but then in turn, we hear you sign this contract with us and we'll buy it from you. Anyway but yeah. So, you know, so they had to shoehorn in what it is that we supposedly did wrong into a fraud statute.
Speaker 2:Well, fraud requires requires intent. So, you know, I have to I have to have an intent to take something some something of value from one person and purposely redoing or or doing something wrong with it so so that that person there so they're giving me money to invest in a piece of property, and then I don't invest in that piece of property, and instead I go out and buy a car. That's fraud. Okay? So what they're trying to do is they're trying to say there's a number of, you know, number of things, but they're trying to just say that I defrauded the government of their product because I signed a contract to, become a vaccine provider for the COVID vaccine, you know, project, and I didn't do what it was that they wanted me to do.
Speaker 2:You brought up Amazon earlier, you know, on buying a scale for $30. K? So take it let's let's look at it this way. Let's take that same scale, k, that you buy from company x. And the scale comes with, you know, all the instructions and comes with, hey.
Speaker 2:This is how you use it. This is how you turn it on. This is how you change the this units, you you go from ounces to pounds to kilos to, you know, to milligrams, grams, whatever, and, you know, this is how you do that. And then you decide when you bring it home to turn it upside down and use the under part of it, and that's how you weigh your product. Okay?
Speaker 2:That's kind of that's what that's in. And so now company x finds out that they're that you're doing that with their product. So they want to sue you. K? Or they're saying that you defrauded them of the use of their product because you did something other than what they wanted you to do with it.
Speaker 1:Okay? Crazy.
Speaker 2:That's that's essentially what that's that's the same analogy here. K? They're they're taking a product that they presumably never owned or they're trying to tell you that they never owned, but they're buying it from a company, and then they're delivering it to you. So now the other question is, when they deliver it to me, who owns it? Whether I paid for it, k, because I did with my tax dollars, but whether I you know, but whether they're giving it to me for free, and even though it has some instructions to it, just because I don't use it that way is that fraud.
Speaker 2:And especially when there's nobody that was hurt. There are no injured patients. There are no injured party. Nobody's claiming that they got something that they didn't want or nobody's claiming that they didn't get something that they did want. So there's no there's nobody here.
Speaker 2:They can't bring anybody up on the stand that says that what they got was they didn't want or what they didn't get was what they wanted. And, you know, and so they're trying to kinda shoehorn this into that, then conspiracy thing, you know, is because there's more than one person doing it. And then I counterfeited the cards. Well, I didn't counterfeit anything. These were cards that were given to me from the federal government or from, you know, presumably from the federal government.
Speaker 2:I don't know that because they don't have an OMB stamp on it. So I don't know whether this is an actual federal government piece of paper or not, but it's got a logo. It's got a CDC logo that I can download and put on a piece of paper. I mean, I did that with a friend of mine. Funny story.
Speaker 2:You got a you got a minute?
Speaker 1:Oh, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, a really good friend of mine was married to a gal who used to work for me. And he was up skiing at Snowbird, and he was going over into the Alta side because it had snowed, and there was just all this fresh snow and he was just getting powder on after powder on and nobody was, you know, nobody was there and everything else. So he does it three or four times and finally, he gets down to the bottom of the hill and there's ski patrol waiting for him. They they they revoke his pass because he was skiing out of bounds and it was, you know, he knew it. So they revoke his pass and they said, hey, you know, you'll have to call us, you know, get a hold of us when you renew your pass and we'll talk to you.
Speaker 2:So in the middle of the summer, I downloaded this is where it comes from. I downloaded the Snowbird logo, k, from the Snowbird website, put it on a piece of paper, and I wrote a letter, this official looking letter, and sent it to him, k, saying, hey. You are now gonna have to go through this remedial course. You are gonna have to spend, you know, a hundred hours of community service and, you know, whatever. I mean, I just kinda made this whole thing.
Speaker 2:Call this number to schedule your appointment. You must do so in the next forty eight hours or you will never get a snowbird pass again in your life. K? So I sent this letter to him and, you know, and it was a full on panic for him. I had to talk to his wife was telling me everything that was going on.
Speaker 2:And finally, I let him stew for about a week, and then finally, I called up Ryan and go, hey. It was all fake, man. Because I gave him some I actually gave him an actual phone number to call. That was the actual phone number for the safety office or the the speed patrol office at Snowbird. And so he was calling there, and then they were we don't know what this is all about.
Speaker 2:Anyway, so I could have done the same thing with these cards because there's nothing on there that makes them official other than that logo. Okay? And, you know, there's people that have been thrown in jail, people that were selling cards online, people selling them on eBay that made $1,400,000. They're spending time in jail, you know, and everything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Obama can do it with a with a a birth certificate. Right. So, anyway Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, that's the you know, that that's what these cards were. So they're claiming that I counterfeited them. I didn't counterfeit anything. So and then they're claiming, that I destroyed government property because after we were indicted, now my office manager who's taken a plea deal, is telling the government that I told her to get rid of the any vaccine that we still had in the office. One, I didn't know that we had it in the office.
Speaker 2:Two, I found out later that the vaccine was never in the office because she just took it home so that it was never there for anybody to actually even, you know, potentially use it by mistake. And, you know, and so she told she told the government that I told them to you know, for her to get rid of it. One, if I had told her that, it was expired anyway and couldn't couldn't be used. It needed to just be thrown away anyway. And two, it never happened.
Speaker 2:But, so, anyway, that's those are the charges.
Speaker 1:And so what is the what is the DOJ trying to accomplish with this? Like, what is their do they wanna put you behind bars? I mean, what are what are they aiming for here?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we, we went through and tried to get, when Pam Bonney got sworn in, I think the first day that she was there or the day after she established this, weaponization work group, which is supposed to be an agency, or a committee to set up to try to go after any of the previous DOJ, you know, political persecution cases. And I thought my case fit right into this. So we, you know, sent our paperwork up the chain, you know, up the chain and, got some answers back immediately and everything else. And then it was quiet for about two weeks.
Speaker 2:In the meantime, I think the, prosecution, the attorney US attorney's office in Utah found out that we were, you know, we were going that route. And so then there was a very brief discussion of what a plea deal might look like, and they they were hesitant to just let me walk because they wanted me to do jail time. And so they were like, well, we can knock this down to, you know, a misdemeanor, but, it'll be at least a year in jail or not at least, but it we want we want a year in jail. And so we I I don't say I contemplated it, but we were thinking about it. I mean, it's a misdemeanor.
Speaker 2:I get to walk away. And I'd already spent some time in jail, which is, you know, probably we'll get to here in just a second. But, and, you know, but within twenty four hours, the weaponization work group sent us an email saying, we're not gonna take this case. It doesn't seem to fall within our wheelhouse. And so then we get a text or an email from the US attorney's office saying, hey.
Speaker 2:Whatever we were talking about before, we're not gonna we're not interested in talking about anymore. There's no deal on the table. So, they they wanna put me in jail. They want to, you know, make an example out of me. I mentioned I've I've spent thirty four days in jail.
Speaker 2:I've spent three and a half months on an ankle monitor on house arrest. And the first part was I spent twelve days in jail and then the summer of twenty, three on an on an ankle monitor because I the motion to go pro se. They're claiming it was a sovereign citizen thing. It wasn't. I was just challenging the federal jurisdiction over me, and which some people claim is a sovereign citizen thing.
Speaker 2:It's I mean, it's it's just an argument that, hey. You know, it goes back, and and and it was wrong. You know? I probably shouldn't have probably shouldn't have done that. It just it pissed off the judge, and so he threw me in jail.
Speaker 2:But the interesting thing is, two of us did that. My office manager, Carrie, did that as well. So both of us filed the exact same motion. All we did was change the name at the top, and I spent twelve days in jail, and she walked.
Speaker 1:So it's apparent that there there's a target on your back. Right? Like, you're and I'd seen I think it was, what maybe it was, from someone I was following that was, you know, kinda, you know, talking about this online, that it was up to thirty five years. Like, that that that was the number I had seen that they're they're put so they're potentially trying to put you in prison for thirty five years. Is is that like, it seems wild.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right. I mean, people that murder people, people that rape little kids don't get that. No. You know, I have you know, it's yeah. So that it was 15 when they added the charge of destruction to government property because they're claiming that they could have used that product in their prosecution of me.
Speaker 2:So it's me kind of, you know, trying to hide evidence. So that that supposedly add another two a potential twenty years to my, you know, to my sentence. So that was in January of this year. So in in taking away part of their case, they added another part of their case. So taking away the guy who was selling drugs, okay, and no longer could corroborate the story that the first agent came in, to do, they add another charge, which was which is to increase the potential, you know, level of, you know, level of jail time.
Speaker 2:I don't think that if I get convicted on fraud charges, there's typically a chart. My attorneys tell me that it's based on a point system. Again, I don't know, you know, whether there's a destruction whether this destruction of government property case will go. It's her word against my word, essentially. And and, you know, I never told her that.
Speaker 2:So, I mean, I'm I like I told you, Seth, I didn't I didn't know that the vaccine I never saw the vaccine get delivered. I never signed for any of the product that was delivered. It was always my office manager to handle you know, handling that. She would sign for it or somebody else in the office would sign for it. I found out later that she was actually just taking the product home, keeping it, you know, in the refrigerator or just taking it home and throwing it away, because she just didn't want to have any of the product in her office, to for anybody to make a mistake.
Speaker 2:And so it was, you know, really kind of an interesting, you know, thing for then her to turn around and say I told her to throw it away. I didn't even know where it was. I found this out after we were indicted, then, hey, Carrie, what were you doing with it? Where is it? You know?
Speaker 2:Why is it not in the fridge upstairs? You know? Whatever. And that's that's when she told me the story. So
Speaker 1:Gosh. And so so, like, what are the next steps in this? Is there gonna be a trial? Or I mean, because I you know, I'm not I'm not a lawyer. I'm I'm not as familiar with the exact process that these things follow.
Speaker 1:So, like, what are the next steps? What's the timeline? You know, how's how's this this unfold?
Speaker 2:So we go to trial in, like, in twenty days. July 7, we've been, you know, both both on their part and on our part, we've pushed this thing back. Oh, and very briefly, I spent another twenty two days in jail in November of last year, because I sent a text message to my codefendant telling him that we had court the next day. And so we're not supposed to have we're not supposed to talk about the case, among the codefendants. So I sent them a text saying, hey.
Speaker 2:We have court tomorrow. It'd be nice for you and your attorneys to show up. And I because I knew that had had communication issues with their attorneys. In other words, you know, one of my codefendants, has probably talked to her attorney in two and a half years, probably talked to him maybe four times. And, you know, and so knew that they were having struggles and so I didn't know if they knew about the case, so I sent a text message.
Speaker 2:Because I used the app called Signal, the insinuation was is that I was trying to hide the text message. I mean, lot of people use signal. Yeah. But, anyway, and again, two of us got thrown in jail, then I got they let her go twenty four hours later, and they or forty eight hours later, and they kept me in jail for twenty two days.
Speaker 1:Goodness.
Speaker 2:Again, same same thing. You know? There's a target on my back. They're trying to send a message. They're trying to you know, that that it's, you know, it's they're just singling me out because I'm the ringleader here supposedly of having done this crime against humanity of doing what my patients wanted me to do.
Speaker 1:Gosh.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so we have trial in July, and it's, you know, it's it's around the corner.
Speaker 1:Man. So I so I'm a father. I've got a one year old and a four year old, and I can't imagine what this would be like. Especially, you know, you mentioned that you're you're solely responsible for raising these two children, that they're not adults. They're they're obviously dependent on you for probably, I'd imagine, like, much much of what makes up their entire world is is tied to to you and your support for them.
Speaker 1:And so what's this been like for you? Just mentally and emotionally, just processing this and and thinking that you've gone from, you know, doing what you believe would be the right thing, which I I agree with you, right, to now thinking you could spend potentially years behind bars for this and not see your children go through high school graduation or any of these things. I mean, you you know, you're you're quite composed, you've got a smile on your face in this discussion, which is which is great. But how's this how's this like, what's the toll this has taken on you dealing with this?
Speaker 2:Well, my daughter I mean, I mentioned before she was, you know, in 2020. She was, you know, 15, 16 years old. She's well, she's 22. She just turned 22.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. Okay.
Speaker 2:She was 17. My son was, 11 when COVID started. He was, you know, 13, 14 when I got indicted. So he's 17. He'll be 18 in October.
Speaker 2:So they're a little older, but, you know, like I said, I'm still the provider for the family. And, you know, what's it gonna be like for them to not have their dad? So, maybe I should leave that question to them. No. I you know, it it's been, it's been surreal.
Speaker 2:It there are times where, I just, you know, sit in my room and break down and cry, and then there's times where, you know, when I public facing, talking to Seth Whole House on a podcast, I put a smile on my face. So, it's, you know, it it's been a struggle. There's no doubt. I have some really good support behind me. My my mom, you know, supports me.
Speaker 2:My dad also died in '20, '19, so that was a struggle for us. And, you know, I've got my sister. You know, she lives in Connecticut over you know, by where you are, but, you know, support. I've got a girlfriend, fiance that, you know, that helps us, and, and some really close friends and some people that I've actually met through this whole saga, that have, you know, really been behind us. I've got a whole community of people on X that, kind of are trying to, you know, get things to go viral and trying to do trying to help us out.
Speaker 2:So it's been a emotional roller coaster. Obviously, being thrown in jail for almost a month, is, you know, provided you know, it was a huge difficulty for my family, for my office because I'm still working. And it, you know, it just it was a huge wrench in the, you know, wrench in the chain. And, you know, but we you know, you gotta, you know, roll the punches a little bit. You just take what's thrown at you and figure out a way to adapt and make it happen.
Speaker 2:So, you know, there's been a lot of support for us online. It's ruined me financially. I am in the process probably having to sell my house, and just to pay my legal fees. It's probably cost me 3 quarters of a million dollars, and the expensive part's coming because now it's trial. So that's where, you know, the I'm, you know, I'm not bashing them, but that's where the attorneys make their money is because, you know, they're taking care of one client every day that they're there.
Speaker 2:And so that's expensive because they can't, you know, they can't do any work for any of their other clients. And so it's a $24.07 deal for them while they're in trial. And I have to pay an attorney to be there for my business, or my business has to pay my which is me, has to pay my attorney to be there for the length of the trial every day. And he's not gonna I mean, he contributes because he's a smart guy. K?
Speaker 2:But he's just there. He doesn't have to be there. I mean, he shouldn't have to be there, but he is. So I'm paying somebody as a peripheral, as a third attorney, because I have two of my own. I am paying a third person to be there, to, you know, to to basically do nothing for me just because that's what the system requires.
Speaker 1:Gosh. So because I've seen this there's a lot of, big maha voices, you know, doctors, you know, frontline doctors and people that have been talking about this case. And is there is there any hope in getting us up the chain to say RFK junior or directly on, you know, the desk of pan bond Pan Bondi? Is there any hope that under this new administration that, that someone might step in and say, hey. Look.
Speaker 1:This is this is so wrong. What's being done to this person? Or are they do you think that they something they wouldn't touch because it would you know, touching this starts to get into operation warp speed and and, you know, Trump's, you know, kind of self admittedly the father of the vaccine. And so Right. It's very different than you being, say, a j six political prisoner, right, that was, you know, exercising your rights peacefully.
Speaker 2:And they got let out day one. Right? I mean, on January 20, an hour after he's inaugurated, he's pardoning every single one of them, and they're out of jail within twenty four, forty eight hours. I really thought that the weaponization work group was gonna be able to do something for us. You know, this is a civil rights issue.
Speaker 2:It's a First Amendment issue. There's, you know, there there's just all kinds of ways that you could couch this. Certainly, a political persecution, I think there's no doubt that, you know, me having spent thirty four days in jail for what two other of my codefendants spent zero time in jail or one spent zero, the other one spent two, it's, you know, certainly demonstrative, should be demonstrative that that's, you know, that that's what they're going after is me, you know, individually even though I, you know, supposedly did the same crime that other people aren't spending any time in jail for. So well, I don't know what the different I if you look up the definition of persecution, that's I think I think my picture is sitting right next to it. But, you know, yeah, I I had a lot of high hopes for RFK.
Speaker 2:You know, I I knew what his stance on vaccines were, before he joined the Trump administration. I think he's been muzzled. I, you know, I know some people that know some people that, you know, we're six degrees of separation away from, you know, kind of being able to shake hands with, you know, any person that you know or any person that you that's on this earth. So it's it's just interesting to me. You know?
Speaker 2:So r k on his personal ex profile said that we were heroes and that we should be let go and that we provide a great service in treating our patients. On his official channel, zip, nothing. So I think I know where he stands. I know enough people that know him that actually personally know him, that have told me where he stands, and that it's been a real struggle with this administration in terms of actually putting in place the parts and pieces that he really wants to put into place, and to go in the direction that he thinks, you know, things should go. And I'm sure Kash Patel and Dan Bongino are finding that out too with the FBI.
Speaker 2:So, it's, you know, it it's hard. So I don't know that, some of my one of my attorneys who, is no longer with us thought for sure that this was gonna get, you know, that I was gonna get a pardon and or that the case was gonna get dismissed. And I had high hopes for that as well. You know, again, I didn't defraud anybody. I didn't steal anybody's money.
Speaker 2:I didn't hurt anybody, and I don't have any complaints coming from any of my patients. The only people that feel wronged by this, is a federal government agency, that feels that I need to be made an example out of so that it shows that if you don't comply with what you tell you to do, with what we tell you to do, then this is what's gonna happen to you.
Speaker 1:It's just absolutely crazy, because I mean, I I look at you as a hero. Like, that's how I look at you. I I I see there's so many doctors that just followed the instructions that they were given without questioning. Now there's been a lot of doctors that that didn't. Right?
Speaker 1:And I've gotten the, you know, the opportunity to sit down and interview a lot of them, and and they're amazing people. But of all the different freedom fighting doctors that I've met, you're the only one that's facing potentially decades in prison for what you did, which is just insane. And so in terms of what we can do to help, obviously, this is one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the show. As soon as I came across your case, I messaged you on Twitter, and and, you know, thankfully, you're with my show and was able to set this up. This is one of the ways that I see that I can help is just to get this information out to as many people as possible.
Speaker 1:But for people that are watching this, just shaking their heads, how can people help you? How can we get behind you, and support you in this?
Speaker 2:You know, prayers are always helpful. K? And we we are we we every day, and just kinda hoping that that happens. Getting behind us, you know, and showing up to court when it starts on July 7 and have a huge, you know, huge showing, calling, talking to your, you know, representatives and senators and everybody else and trying to get them to have, you know, some input and and and try to direct the conversation and try to say, hey. Look.
Speaker 2:This guy is just you know, this is wrong. What's going on? And and then any financial support through, you know, their Gibson Go account. And like I said, it's it's gotten expensive. It's been a difficult process for us.
Speaker 2:We set out, you know, five years ago with a million dollar goal knowing that that's what we know is gonna cost us. I think I was pretty much right on. And my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be. I think we're right at about a 130. Is that what that's it?
Speaker 1:Yeah. $1.01 29. And it's everyone's well, no. The link to this, I'll put this Gibson Go link in the description of the show. It's gibsongo.com/fight for more.
Speaker 1:That's the number four. So fight number four more, m o o r e. And this is yes. So I I would encourage people, to whatever they can whatever they can help with for this. Because I look at it as, like, I feel like that I've been at war.
Speaker 1:I feel like that this this podcast is a weapon of war. Right? It's it's an information war, and this is one of the ways that I'm fighting. You're on the the front line of the same war. Right?
Speaker 1:What what what are we both fighting against? We're fighting against a tyrannical global system that wants to enslave us and wants to keep us sick and and dead. Right? And to kinda put it bluntly. And so you're you're like a fallen soldier that, you know, that that is on the front lines.
Speaker 1:You took you took a leg wound, and, like, if we can't come to your aid and pull you off the the battlefield and and help, you know, kind of fix your injury, you're you're just gonna be left to history, and and we we can't let that happen at all. We can't let that happen.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. You know, the interesting thing, you mentioned this earlier. I'm the only one. I'm not the only one.
Speaker 2:There's some nurses practitioners and so on that have been convicted. I'm actually finding this out. There's, a couple from New York that I just heard about, a nurse and another nurse practitioner, I think, that have, you know, been been taken to the woodshed over this in, you know, in the New York system. You know? But, you know, I've I've all of those other docs that you talked about, not to, you know, demean them or disparage them or anything, you know, they were facing, you know, loss of their board certification, loss of their hospital privileges.
Speaker 2:You know, some of them might have been facing loss of their license, because of that to some degree, and that's their fight. I've already lost my hospital privileges. I lost my hospital privileges back in 2020 when I just refused to wear a mask when I went in to take care of patients for free in the emergency room. I used to take call three days a month, four days a month, something like that as a plastic surgeon to go in and so chew people up. I never charged anybody for it.
Speaker 2:Never went know, never never, you know, filed insurance. No. Never turned them away. Never said I couldn't do it. Took their stitches out in the office.
Speaker 2:You know, again, did this all for free. Okay? It was just it was too much of a hassle for me to try to, you know, file insurance claims, get denied and, you know, everything else. So I was doing that three, four days a month, and I've been doing it for twenty years. So I was going into the emergency room on my own dime, on my own time, you know, to take care of their patients, and they were requiring me to wear a mask when I was in there.
Speaker 2:I got turned into it three times. On the third time, they brought me into the Administration office. I walked in with a whole stack of papers and said, this is what masks don't do. And they're like, we don't care. This is our hospital policy.
Speaker 2:He said, well, then I don't care either. Then I guess I'll no longer work here. So that was step one. I lost my board certification because in order for me to have a accredited operating room, I have to have hospital privileges. So I no longer had hospital privileges, so I lose my board certification because I lost my accreditation to my surgical facility.
Speaker 2:And so the next step is to lose my license. I can't lose my license necessarily unless, I get federally indicted or federally, you know, convicted. So that's the, you know, that's the next step. So even if I get a federal conviction and then, you know, by some chance, I, you know, I stay out of jail, I'm still gonna lose my medical license. So it's, you know, it's just kinda like one domino after another after another.
Speaker 2:And, you know, look, Seth, I've said this dozens of times. It's not my own saying, but the process is the punishment in all of this. And it's you know, let's just keep going, keep going, keep going. Is it David versus Goliath? It's one guy fighting against the federal government over twenty eight thousand dollars in fraud.
Speaker 2:You know, if they were to come to me and they said, hey. Look. Why don't we just forget all this? Why don't you pay us back the $28, $29? We'll fine you a 20% overage fee.
Speaker 2:Give us $2,035,000 dollars, and we'll, you know, and we'll make it all away. You know, I would have thought about that. You know? I mean, it's just kinda like, hey. Okay.
Speaker 2:Let's, you know, let's do it. Right? But, no, it's turned into, you know, it's turned into this, you know, kind of like a battle of, like I said, persecution of a physician, do what we tell you to do, or this is what's gonna happen to you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely insane. Well, I appreciate you giving me the time. I know that you've got, you know, limited to, you know, kind of, amount of days before the trial hits. I hope that anybody that's watched this interview can share it. That's one of the most important things that we can do, and maybe this interview reaches some ears of of someone in the federal government that can then, you know, pass it along, and and maybe we can, use that.
Speaker 1:The one thing I can tell you is that, you're not fighting alone. You've got a lot of people that are supporting you, and we'll continue to support you. So please keep us updated. I'll make sure that I'll put your Twitter link in the description for the show as well, so people can can follow you and get updates on what's happening. I'll make sure that the, the Gibson Go link is also in there as well.
Speaker 1:And I hopefully hopefully, we can help kinda turn the tides with this, because if they make an example of you, out of this, then who's next? Right? And that's that's the thing is that, you that establishes precedent, and all of a sudden, it's like, oh, great. You know? Who else can we can we take down?
Speaker 2:Right. Well, then it takes away your freedom. Right? I mean, we've already you've already talked about that. You talk about that on your show all the time.
Speaker 2:But if we lose the ability to determine what it is that the government is gonna tell us or want us to put into our own bodies permanently, there is no reversal of a shot. You know, this this shot is you know, this mRNA stuff that they're injecting is a permanent hijacking of our cells. And if they're allowed to do that and then they get away with it and they say, hey, we're gonna inject you, you're gonna get one, you're gonna get a lot of docs out there that are just not gonna do this anymore. And two, if they know what the ramifications are, then they're just going to quit.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:And so then we're stuck with, you know, what kind of quality of medicine are we going to have when we have people that are not the smartest, you know, that are out there that are actually, you know, kind of the ones that end up taking care of us.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Exactly. Well, Doctor. Moore, my prayers are with you,
Speaker 2:and I
Speaker 1:you know, let me know if there's anything I can do. Obviously, I'm gonna try to get this interview out to meet as many people as possible, But again, you're not alone in this. You've got a lot of people standing behind you, and I just I I I thank you for the courage that you've had to do what was right, and not what was convenient. And I hope that you can be an example to more people in a positive way. Like, not the not not the example that it's like the one kid that gets in trouble in school, and the teacher's making make an example out of them.
Speaker 1:Right? But more so that you're the one person that stood up against this, you know, megalithic or monolithic system. Right? This this massive, you know, kinda corrupted system, and I I thank you for that. And, again, thank you for your time today.
Speaker 2:K. Well, thanks for having me on, Seth.
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