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Hi, I’m Tammy. I collect big ideas like some people collect shoes (and maybe I do both ☺️). I’ve always been curious about how people build amazing things, solve big problems, and make communities better. I love asking questions, connecting dots, and discovering ideas that make me wonder, “Why aren’t more people talking about this?” So I created The PLUM Hub. This isn’t your typical podcast. It’s a place for real stories, practical ideas, bold conversations, and the occasional “Huh, I never thought about it that way” moment. My goal? Every episode leaves you with one idea you can put into action — and maybe makes you laugh along the way. If you believe innovation should actually matter, ordinary people can do extraordinary things, and sometimes the best way through the tough stuff is to laugh… you’re in the right place. We take the work seriously. We just don’t take ourselves too seriously. Welcome to The PLUM Hub. Let’s connect the dots!
speaker-0 (00:09.262)
Welcome everyone, I'm Tammy Meehan and welcome
speaker-0 (00:16.44)
conversation. I want to talk with Justin Johnson. And so Justin, I was thinking this morning, it's kind of fitting that you're actually my first ever catalyst conversation. And we've known each other for actually I should have verified any idea how long we've known each other.
speaker-1 (00:31.274)
speaker-1 (00:34.638)
2005? That would be 20 years of 2006. I think it was like two thousand very close to twenty years.
speaker-0 (00:40.444)
it's gotta be close to twenty years now. So we worked together at 3M when I took the leap to start the Plum Catalysts. you were crazy enough to join me a couple years later. So in a lot of ways this conversation isn't just about transportation and innovation, but it's about obviously our relationship, trust, what we've created together between connected roads work and some of the work at 3M we did, but also now what we get to do here together. So welcome to Catalyst Conversations.
First of all let's start with who's Justin? You're our Senior Director of Technology at The Plum. What were you doing before coming to the Plum Catalyst?
speaker-1 (01:20.054)
In the corporate research labs at 3M for about 18 years and spent my time kind of working on innovation projects, research, filed a bunch of different patents all across the
different business groups that 3M has. And one of my favorite parts was just being able to really dive into technology and use it to help advance the products that 3M was making to try to add some smarts or some technology or some capabilities that set them apart from their their competition.
speaker-0 (01:53.912)
So you did all that, but what drew you to transportation?
speaker-1 (01:57.122)
probably my favorite projects was a group of ideas that that spiraled into or snowballed into I suppose of the The Connected Roads project and and really the supporting technologies that built that were all about how
use cameras and technology to embed information into all of the things that 3M was really good at making. And so that sort of concept really just got me excited because it's a way to use like all of these things that that we know knew and loved, but use them in a new way that really embraced technology and allowed technology to offer
a whole bunch of new capabilities. Yeah. So that was a really it's been really it was really fun. And and I think one of my other favorite parts was when we worked together on that, we got to go out and get out of the lab for me and go see customers, talk to people and like learn about real problems and real pain points and start to understand why the types of solutions we were thinking of could be useful or what problems there were with them. And I think all around that just like sparked kind of a
A new way of working or a new way of thinking for me, which really helped me to change the direction that I thought my career could go and and start to build this sort of hybrid or more integrated role with technology, of course, but also customer sort of focus and and
speaker-0 (03:26.328)
Voice of market.
speaker-1 (03:27.532)
Yeah, understanding exactly what people actually want versus just being in the lab. So I really appreciated that opportunity and the trust that you gave me to come along with that because I know a lot of times that's hard to let sort of a tech person in front of customers because you never know what they're gonna say.
speaker-0 (03:42.89)
Early on, you know, we visited the DOTs, we got to go to Michigan, yeah, Virginia. I'm just thinking back to those days of walking around with the signs and cameras and yeah, California, we definitely spent a lot of time. Yeah. so if someone met you outside of work, what would they learn about you?
speaker-1 (03:53.996)
Different people cali in California.
speaker-1 (04:03.662)
Whew. Well I my my sort of canned answer is that I have chickens and bees. because that's a weird thing that people don't often often associate with honey. Honey. And h yeah, while the bees make the honey, they do the hard part. yeah, that's true. I have a couple of kids, they're eleven and thirteen, and it's a super fun age 'cause it feels like we get to like hang out and do stuff. Also I really enjoy volleyball.
speaker-0 (04:26.008)
What convinced you to leave your job at three and join this crazy idea that I came to you with?
speaker-1 (04:33.26)
This idea that working in a way that is using technology, but also pairing it with real problems and hearing from real people about what they want or what they what they really need to to help them was a real motivator for me. And so transportation had that. And also around the time when we were
Doing a lot of the connected roads stuff. My cousin, my best friend, died in a car crash. It was really tough on me driving down a highway, just a two-lane road, and the other driver
wasn't paying attention or fell asleep or something and swerved over the center line and head on crash and he died. It feels like the kinds of things that we're working on, that that we're talking about, this transportation technology, like all of the pieces are there to prevent something like that from happening. It really hit home that we have the ability to f to fix this or to try to prevent other people from having to deal with that. That
inside me created this drive to try to promote and help in any way that I could to make those technologies more commonplace. To that I participated in a lot of standards committees to try to get the technology standardized, help it proliferate across all of the vehicle manufacturers. The work that we were doing was a big part of trying to help get that kind of technology and capability built in vehicles and built into the infrastructure. And it just seemed like that 3M wasn't necessarily the place that was going to make that happen. A lot of cool tech, but the system
aspect of it was something that they just kind of kept poking at and shying away from. Given the opportunity to actually sit down with state agencies and to work with companies that are direct developing autonomous vehicles or looking at the technologies that help directly impact that kind of a situation seemed like a no-brainer. Plus it's really fun to work with you too.
speaker-0 (06:25.166)
Did you actually think it was gonna work? Did you actually think a company like this was gonna
speaker-1 (06:28.512)
Yeah, I mean
speaker-1 (06:33.646)
The thing that always sold it for me was there's not a lot of people who can look at technology and start to see kind of like how it actually could work as a business. I think there's plenty of people who are really good at developing technology. And there's plenty people who are really good at a business value plan or or looking at how you could
Create run a business, but having a person that can see both of those things and then develop a vision to execute is a pretty hard combination. I think you're really good at that. Many times throughout our career together at 3M, you could see that develop from this is cool to and here's how we actually could sell it and why people would want to buy it and how 3M could justify creating this new product or new line of services.
to have the license to do what you want by yourself feels like you know you you're getting sort of the things that were in your way out of your way. Awesome. And I appreciate that. I was pretty confident that, you know, it could work.
speaker-0 (07:40.718)
Nice moment we had there. So do you think that things have changed about me since I left 3M? Like what do you think has changed the most? I mean, it sounds like obviously have a little freedom to to do some of the things I couldn't do as a leader. Anything you see is that's changed.
speaker-1 (07:57.546)
Even from when we first when I first started working for you, I think some of the biggest changes that I've noticed are from
speaker-0 (08:08.622)
Speaking of which we didn't practice this, so I'm actually a little terrified of what you're about to say.
speaker-1 (08:13.038)
I think no, I think you've you've really had to shift from being like the person doing the things to the person driving the ship. On the surface, if somebody's thinking, like, what does that mean? I think if you haven't tried it, like it sounds pretty easy, right? You get other people to do your work for you. But when you sit right down, it's like you spent years building a name for yourself and people
Are willing to give the company a chance or have them take this important role in a project because of you and what you bring? When you start to have other people who are now like have to carry that same sort torch.
it becomes a really stressful thing because now it's like out of your hands, but you can't just let it go. Yeah. And it's hard to trust, but you can't spend all of your time looking over someone's shoulder. So I think just like learning how to find people that you believe in. Mm-hmm.
And letting them do their job is a really kind of arc that I've seen you walk through and stumble, but also s largely succeed. And I think you know the Go Marty project is a great example of that. You were really tied into everything happening at the beginning, tried to step back a few times, it got sucked back in. And and I think now like we've gotten to the point where, unless there's a big major thing, like you're pretty hands-off. And it's been going okay. So I agree. I think
speaker-0 (09:45.58)
Got a great team, yeah.
speaker-1 (09:46.808)
That's been a big change. That's been a big growth that I've seen. But also I think there's a lot of other places where starting your own business sounds super easy or not it doesn't sound it never sounds super easy. It sounds like there's just like an open slate to do whatever you want. If I were to try to do that, I would have a very hard time making an idea and like
speaker-0 (09:57.955)
Whoever says that has no idea.
speaker-1 (10:11.502)
Actually getting it to the point where it's executed. Like I have a lot of great ideas and and I love working on them, but there's just so many small steps that when you work for a big company, that there's people that know all those steps and know how to execute in all those places that the idea is the like for me was always the important part. And then there was people to help. I love the fact we get to do all the things because there's no one else. You get a broad opportunity. But also I think that's a big challenge of starting a company is you have to do all the things and you gotta kinda do them well.
you get bit. And I think that one thing that I've seen that you've grown a lot at over the last years is the ability to spread your wings and understand all that stuff and actually succeed at it.
speaker-0 (10:54.114)
Yeah, definitely not easy to scale, I would say. Startup world is different. Scaling is yeah, a whole different animal.
speaker-1 (11:02.19)
That's a good way to put it. Yeah. Once you get past the like it's just me and I'm doing my things to like, okay, now you've got this big project and you've got all these like different parts that you have to execute on that aren't delivering the project. They're like all of the other stuff and you're like this stuff is hard hard and not what I was focused on and not where I'm passionate, but
speaker-0 (11:21.494)
three again, the McKnight principle of hire great people and get out of their way. You know, like how do I identify the really great people and then give them the right vision, mission, you know, quality controls, tools, but then get out of their way and let them do their job and I
You know, and you've helped with that. I think that we've done a good job. So yeah. I think we're we're we have to pause every once in a while and celebrate, right? Yeah, agree. Let's talk about innovation. Again, something that both of us kinda grew up with in the 3M world, but now we're able to really apply innovation in a whole different way. So what makes someone innovative for you?
speaker-1 (12:01.198)
I think it starts with always thinking about like what something could be or how something could be better or or why things are the way that they are, but I don't think you can stop there. Then you just have sort of ideas. But I think innovation requires then sort of the and so what. A lot of people think about innovation and and it's you know, this cool new gadget and or this cool new way of accomplishing some task. And and while that's all fine and good, I think the innovation part is how sort of the
journey that you take. So that can be just the way that you approach a problem or the way that you you look at something and then take other knowledge that might not be even adjacent, but just other experiences that you have and and try to put those things together in a way that helps you make this new thing. Yeah I think it's it's a culture, it's a process, it's a it's it's really like the way that
Some people's minds work is just always kind of thinking about something a little bit different.
speaker-0 (13:00.706)
What you didn't say is it's a new technology or it's a new patent or something like that, which I know you get super excited about patents. So but I like it. I like the fact that yeah, you're just talking about like bringing different things together and thinking about it differently. What's something that's happening in mobility today that people need to be paying attention to that might be innovative? Besides Go Marty and some of other cool projects that we're doing.
speaker-1 (13:25.806)
I mean, you know, if you look at sort of the, I don't know if you want to call them innovation mega trends, but certainly electrification and and autonomous are the two like biggest kind of future tech. And are they innovative? I think there's lots of aspects of them that are innovative. I think there's lots of aspects of them that are are incremental because we've realized that you can't just jump to the endpoint, right? If anything the last 15 years have taught us, it's that it's going to have to be built on.
Incremental improvements in order to be safe and robust and for people to trust. But true innovation, I I think there's a lot of bold leaps that are being made that that if they pan out will be pretty innovation, you know, innovative. I think, you know, I mean, Tesla's taking the driver, driving steering wheel out of their new vehicle. that's that's pretty bold. is it innovative? I mean, you know, it it definitely is starting to approach the point where.
If that's successful, there'll be a lot of innovative applications. And I think that's like, you know, that tech underlying tech still has to happen. It still has to be proven. And we know that in transportation, it has to be safe. The user interface integration to me is one thing that's that's really innovative, or it's really making people think about how they use their cars or their vehicles in a different way. And so I I think there's a lot of potential.
Potential cool applications that come out of just as things get more integrated, the innovative uses start to be more available. Sure. So I think that kind of stuff will continue in a way that won't feel so cumbersome to like use the map that's built into your vehicle because it will start to work more naturally, and those kinds of little innovation will start to, I think, finally make all of this like tech that's been just pushed in there because it can, and people call it.
shiny but then then now you can actually use it.
speaker-0 (15:28.896)
Anything you think that's overhyped today?
speaker-1 (15:32.814)
the nature of sort of the I don't wanna call them startups anymore because none of them are, but all of the companies that sort of in the transportation space that started as startups by nature have been just living on the hype cycle and just are constantly driving funding from that. And and I know things are are starting to change and consolidate and and I think a lot of that but there's still a lot of hype. A lot of
potentially really good opportunities and technology out there. I love delivery robots. I think are super awesome. I think they have a place. I think there's a lot of hyper on sidewalk, air. I think there's a there is a great application for a lot of the tech that's being developed. People are smart people are not making things because they think they can just have a cash grab, right? I mean they all believe in the technology and I think there are real applications. I think a lot of those companies need to like take a minute
And and figure out what they think is actually possible. And hopefully we're at a spot now where you don't have to like have this mind blowing application out and say you're gonna have it next week, because we all know it's hard. Mm-hmm. And it would be much more refreshing if people are like, This is our end goal, but we're gonna do these things in between and they're all gonna have value and then we can all not always be wondering what's just hype and
what's potentially actually coming. I think that would really just get everybody in the industry like moving together instead of like trying to one up for everybody else.
speaker-0 (17:10.359)
There's a lot of IP that gets protected as well and so unfortunately that slows things down, but I mean it's necessary. Sorry. In the tech industry, you need they need to be able to raise money.
speaker-1 (17:17.442)
That's a good thing.
Absolutely. Hopefully there's enough cool opportunities that everybody has a place to play.
speaker-0 (17:27.342)
scarcity mindset if we can, but unfortunately, yeah, it is a bit of a race. Alright, so we're gonna switch gears now. What's lesson that you learned the hard way.
speaker-1 (17:40.6)
Good question. Well, I actually don't like it at all, but a lot of mistakes. I think one Well I mean maybe not at work. W growing up, I just like I really, really disliked writing. Hate it, just
Creative writing, technical writing was never really a thing when I was growing up. But like just the idea of having to take your thoughts and put them on paper, telling a story or writing a report was just like always the least favorite part of school for me. My mom kept saying, like, but these are really important skills and you're gonna need them someday. And and you know, time and time I know, time and time again at at even through three at three you know, so much of the way that you share your work, some sure is through
presentations and and verbalizing it in front of your coworkers or or at a conference, but it ultimately all ends up
Getting back to some kind of a report or a or or a paper that you write and submit. And it took me a while to embrace the fact that being like getting good or taking time to practice writing does really help you become a better communicator. It took a lot of tries for me to really sit down and be like, okay, it actually is important to to do this.
Did you really try? I mean, no, but it's good enough. And now you can't do that, right? Like you want to apply for a grant? Like you get one shot. Nobody's gonna bring it back to you and be like, try again. That wasn't very good. Yeah. You know, it's like you you gotta go for it. And there's and especially now, nobody is.
speaker-0 (19:31.926)
Yeah, competitive RFPs don't really allow for
speaker-1 (19:34.956)
Right. And nobody is like checking your work. I mean, with the exception of maybe, you know, like
speaker-0 (19:40.204)
You yeah, and now you're doing like the final reports on projects.
speaker-1 (19:44.346)
Still not my favorite. Still not my favorite. Still not my favorite. But I appreciate the value and I am willing to put my
speaker-0 (19:53.006)
put my mind. you're doing great job with that stuff. I think, yeah. It comes out good. I know it's not easy to sit down and yeah. You have that like idea guy. You're that creative mind always thinking. Yeah. So I know it's hard to sit down and yeah, get it all on paper. All right, so let's talk about the future for a second. Where do you think the mobility industry is heading over the next decade? What is your gut?
speaker-1 (20:17.048)
For better or for worse, you know, funding is such an important aspect of mobility and development of technology and and we've been through kind of a roller coaster, right? It's like all in on AV. Okay, nope, all in on EV. Now we're all in on A V again. If that remains consistent over the next ten years, I think
We have a good shot at having, you know, sort of that true driverless cab experience that would be a game changer for a lot of people who can't drive or don't have access to a driver or a or a car. If we start to see that evolution continue, I think it means a big shake up for, you know, the car rental industry, a big shake up for the taxis and Uber and you know, TNCs. It means a big shakeup for insurance companies.
The whole vehicle ownership model. Like, I mean, people have been talking about this for a while. But if that snowball really starts rolling, I I think it means a pretty big reform on a lot of the ways that we get around. I also think there's some really, really interesting stuff in the space race, if you will. Returning to the moon, mission to Mars, all the stuff that NASA and SpaceX are doing, and everybody.
i are are really kind of rekindling that whole industry and and I think some of the commuter flights that are being proposed could be really, really interesting. Yeah, right. Wanna go to Tokyo in a couple hours, like the trajectory of planes that are capable of that, I mean that would really have a a pretty big impact on international travel. Yeah.
speaker-0 (21:55.128)
world already is more correct connected because of the online stuff, but that would really change for people to connect in person so quickly.
speaker-1 (21:59.874)
Yeah.
way that we work is going to continue to be an evolution. Whether, you know, I a lot of big companies are going back to hybrid models and I think that it is important to be able to have FaceTime where necessary. And hopefully we'll continue to evolve that into something where where everybody is sort of flexible to the point where where we can do those kind of things. And then if transportation makes that so you don't have to drive three hours to something, you can ride in the car and work while you're going, like
that's a whole that again changes the way that some of those dynamics happen and if you can truly fly somewhere and back in a day anywhere in the world, that also is another potential to really just keep evolving transportation. And yeah. I'm excited about that.
speaker-0 (22:50.326)
just see did you see the IHS insurance study that came out that actually has real data showing autonomous vehicles are in fact safer can show through data. I know you're a data guy. Did you look at it?
speaker-1 (23:03.562)
I I have I will need to check it out. I think that's I love that stuff. One thing to hear somebody who's promoting their thing say that something is better or safer, or somebody who's promoting the opposite point saying, well, it's obviously worse. But I think the claims that you make about something that's been proven in a model versus proven in the real world are different, hold different weight.
speaker-0 (23:26.766)
The the way we're gonna end these catalyst conversations is I have a stack of legacy cards. You can just pick a random card. Do that question. There's two there.
speaker-1 (23:47.81)
Well I pulled one for you. I have to do I mean come on now. Okay. Should we start with you? Alright, sure. Okay, what you can't do this one. Alright, what was your favorite subject in school?
speaker-0 (23:56.448)
no.
psychology. I had a really amazing like psych teacher in high school who the the one thing I remember is he got really excited about topics and he would throw a chair against a wall. Like he would be like this is anger and just like whoo in Spanish. I did a lot of Spanish. Okay, what's yours?
speaker-1 (24:18.871)
mine says tell me about your favorite teacher.
speaker-0 (24:21.679)
what? Did I pick a different one for you?
speaker-1 (24:24.3)
I I this I this kind of a softball. I'm gonna go with it. Yeah, my favorite teacher, his name was Mr. Gross. He was a programming teacher at our high school. He had a very energetic but also like practical approach to teaching allowed students to really kind of take things and make it what they wanted. So while we were learning how to program, the concepts
he would teach, but then what you did with them was sort of up to you. And I really appreciated that because it allowed kids who like were generally more focused on sort of science and math and things that were, you know, like had a
a specific process to solving, be creative. Yeah. And so we did all sorts of random things. All of the higher level classes that he taught were were basically self-led classes. He would offer the material. We some one time made a game, another time like programmed some tool that we could use to help do other projects. Like it was it and none of them were great because they were all just like little high school programming projects. But but the the group of kids that worked together through that were
Really, I mean, I was very inspired by just the the life lessons and the the freedom, but also the accountability that we learned. And he was a really great guy, and it was actually amazing because 20 years later he is the superintendent of the school up where GoMarty is. And so we had a project that was with the high school. We got to reconnect when I first started here at Palm to sit down and catch up and and just see where he's gone with his career from being
kind of the remedial high school math teacher all the way to superintendent of a pretty big district. Yeah. it was great to share all the stories of all the friends that I still have that I met in his class. Yeah. All of us were impacted by the lessons and the things that he
speaker-0 (26:08.63)
It's like a full circle model.
speaker-0 (26:24.0)
I think we need to talk to Mr. Gross in one of our catalysts. Cool. Legacy cards. Yeah. Here we go. What can I close out with asking you something? So what's one small action someone who's listening today to this can take to become a catalyst in their own community or you know, community doesn't have to be a physical community but in their own network.
speaker-1 (26:27.542)
That'd be super fun.
speaker-1 (26:46.866)
starts with being curious. Something that you see that you think has a potential for improvement or change. That's the role of a catalyst is dig in, find out why, what can you do about it? And and even just you know little actions to ask questions sometimes get people thinking or get people excited about an opportunity and what they could change. Ryan.
speaker-0 (27:08.632)
Thanks for joining us for another catalyst conversation, or I should say our first catalyst conversation. if today's conversation sparked a new idea, challenged your thinking, inspired you to take action like Justin is telling you to do, we'd love to have you comment and join us again. Until next time, keep moving, do some good, and remember you got this.