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The Pilot Project Podcast is an aviation podcast that aims to help new pilots learn what it takes to succeed in the world of flight, to help people in the flight training system learn what they may want to fly, and to give Canadians and the world a peek into life on the flight deck in the RCAF. We want to help pilots succeed and thrive! We interview real RCAF pilots for their exciting stories as well as the lessons they've learned along the way. We'll learn their tips to develop resilience and the tools it takes to make it in flight training.
THIS TRANSCRIPT IS AI GENERATED AND WILL CONTAIN SOME SMALL ERRORS. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE CONTACT thepilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com. We understand the importance of good subtitles but currently as a one-person operation we just don't have the ability to edit these in a timely fashion and keep episodes coming out regularly. Thank you for your understanding!
All right, we're ready for departure here on the Pilot Project Podcast, your best source for stories and advice from the pilots of the RCAF. I am your host, Bryan Morrison. With me today is Jackie Ruis. Jackie first came to my attention after Canada Remembers posted an article about her conducting a medevac in Maui. I reached out to her and she kindly agreed to be on the show. Jackie joined the Caf at age 17 in 2008, right out of high school. She graduated from flight training in 2014 and was posted to 450 Squadron in Petawawa, Ontario to fly the Ch 147 F Chinook. In 2018, she deployed to Gao Maui, where she was part of the UN Multidimensional Integrated Stabilization Mission as a pilot for Canada's forward air medevac capability. Today, she teaches new pilots how to fly the Chinook. Jackie, welcome to the show.
Thanks.
Let's dive right into it. A, uh, question I always like to start with is where did flying begin for you?
Flying began for me with my stepdad. We had a Cessna 172 growing up, so he had his private pilot's license, and I started flying with him when my feet couldn't reach the pedals. And I definitely thought I was flying, but I most definitely was not. Um, and probably around grade one, I think, is when I first stepped in the front seat of an airplane.
So that's awesome, though, that you had that opportunity growing up to get involved in flight like that. How did that jump from flying your stepdad Cessna to getting into the Air Force?
So, one day we went to volunteer at, uh, an airport in Abbotsford, I think it was, and I saw some aircraft parading on the tarmac out there and thought, wow, that looks pretty cool. They were all in unison, marching around and was just in awe as a kid. And I looked at my dad and I was like, I want to do that. That looks cool. So we moved to Ottawa when I was 14, and I joined Air Cadets at that time and loved Air Cadets. Went all throughout that prior to the military, and I think it was Air Cadets that kind of led me to the military aspect of it. I remember I got a flight in a Griffin at one point in Cadets, and I sat on the side and I was just ripping around low level and all of a sudden looking at the sky, and then before I knew it, looking at the ground, and just loved it. And then and there, I'm like, Yup, okay. Going to be a helicopter pilot in the military. So grade eight is when I think I decided I wanted to be a military pilot. And I actually didn't know this, but a girlfriend of mine a couple of years ago told me grade two is when I started saying I wanted to be a pilot. So pretty young.
Um wow. So that's been in your blood and on your mind for a long time.
Yeah, this is all I've ever wanted to do, so I don't know what else I would have done if this didn't work out, so luckily it did.
I always said that if you want to be a pilot, that's a pretty lucky thing, because it's not like when someone's like, well, I want to be a scientist, and there's like a thousand branches of science they can go into, like a pilot. You want to fly, you want to be a pilot.
That's it. Yeah.
Did you do like, the glider or powered flight program in cadets?
No, I actually didn't, so I did basic training. Itaac was my second camp introduction to Aviation course, and then I did airport operations course. So kind of managing an airport crash response, that type of thing. I did try for my glider's license once, but we had to do ground school prior to getting selected, and I was number six, and they only took five, so I did not get selected.
Yeah, glider is pretty cut through to get into.
Yeah. Studied quite a bit. Definitely with friends, but yeah, was number six. They only took five, so that was the only year I tried, though, because I wanted to do the other camps first, and then before I knew it, I was 17 joining the military, so.
Yeah, that's awesome that you were in at that Aaj. Ah. Because that means pensionable at 42.
Correct.
That's a pretty good deal.
Yeah.
Did you do phase two at Mooseja or in portage?
Yeah, I did phase two. Mooscha.
Okay, right on. So how did you find your flight training experience in the forces? Did you have any big setbacks or anything?
I think, you know, everybody at some point has a little bit of trouble for me, Moose Jaw, i, uh, did really well on my day to day flights, and then I would just get so nervous for the tests. I think I failed two tests while I was there, but I'd snake all the flights up to it and then all of a sudden go fail a test, which doesn't make any sense.
In military flight training, the highest mark is standard exceeded, denoted by an S. It is often referred to as Snaking a flight.
You just put so much pressure on yourself, you had so much riding on it. That's all I ever wanted to do. And I think they add more pressure on that course as well. To put that extra pressure on you right on purpose, without a doubt. Yeah. So that aspect and then for whatever reason, I just get so nervous and make a silly mistake. And it is what it is, and then I'd go up on the retest and do fine. Yeah, I'd say phase two a little difficulty with the test and just getting over that testitis, as we call it. But once I got to phase three, you know, they, you know very well, they kind of treat you like adults there. Right. So a lot less stress. And I definitely took a lot of pressure off myself there as well because, you know, making it through Moose Jaw is a, you know, big success. So I found once I got to portage for phase three, and again, flying helicopters, I think I was definitely meant to fly helicopters.
It was a more natural fit.
Yeah, I felt a lot less stress, and I had no problems on phase three. Did well throughout the course, did well on all my tests. So, uh, for whatever reason, I guess helicopters maybe came a little more naturally for me. And that's where it kind of sunk in.
I feel like phase three, like you said, you're treated a bit more like an adult. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. It's a little more easy to see. Like, this is why I'm doing this. And Moose Jaw is just sort of a giant stress fest of, uh, learning as fast as you can and trying to keep your head above water. And there's a little less of that at phase three.
Yeah, exactly. Standing at attention in the morning to answer a red page, asking permission to go to lunch, permission to leave for the day, they add that stress on and hey, that's all part of it because we definitely need to be able to work under stress. So totally understand the idea behind it, but, yeah, we're definitely happy to move on to phase three.
Yeah, I totally get you. I think, too, that stress and phase two is partly like you're still learning your coping mechanisms and your healthy methods of getting over that. And so much of that stress, like you said, is self imposed, and you don't have the tools completely yet to sort of overcome that. Did you develop any kind of specific ways of overcoming that, or was it just sort of things, uh, got better with time type thing?
No, I definitely did, because when you do a retest, that's probably even more stress than the actual test, right? Because it really is on the line. So chair flying helped me a lot. So just visualizing I'm a visual learner. So actually me moving my hands, doing the maneuvers, that definitely helped me. And then I also put in a little kind of reward system so I would pass my test and I'd take myself out for sushi because that's kind of my favorite thing to eat. So that helped too. It was kind of like a little reward at the end to myself. Yeah, those were kind of the two things I did, whether they helped or not, who knows? But I think they did, because here I am today, now, teaching young pilots.
I like that. I was huge into chair flying, especially at, uh, Moose Jaw. I think it's one of the biggest, best tools in your arsenal, because you can basically do the flight over and over again in your head. And all the procedural parts of it, at least you can have nailed down. So all that's left is for the instructor or the SIM instructor to kind of correct, uh, maybe the small things that you weren't doing right in your head. And it should be pretty smooth. And I think the reward system is pretty smart, too. It seems like a really a healthy way to incentivize yourself. So that's awesome.
Yeah, exactly. Nothing too crazy. Just a dinner out. Yeah.
Ah. So you went through all your phase training. You finished phase three, and it's election time. Were you expecting to get the Shinnock? Was that something that you had wanted and requested, or was it a surprise?
Yeah, so I went through pilot training, uh, 2012 to 2014, kind of the end of 2014. So we actually acquired the shinnox when I was going through pilot training. Or I should say we accepted our first shinnoks when I was going through training. So up until pilot training, I always wanted to fly Griffins, and I thought I wanted to do search and rescue. And then it slowly turned into a love for tackle, but still wanted to do Griffins. And it wasn't until I really showed up to phase three where I kind of even found out what a Shinuk was, because, again, we hadn't really had them. Once I got there, they had asked for our preferences. So they asked you up front, and then they'll ask you again at the end, of course. And again, I didn't really fully know what Shannon did and what it was all about, but I knew it was really competitive to get shinooks. At the time, they only had two spots for that year for the remainder of the year. So I decided to put shinooks first, just in case I changed my mind and decided I wanted it. At least it would have already been number one. Whereas if I had put Griffin and not as two, I probably wouldn't have got it if I then switched to one. So thought I was being strategic, kept it as one, even though I kind of still wanted Griffin's. And then halfway through the course, definitely by the end, of course, I had done more research and was like, oh, yeah, chinooks is definitely what I want to do. And luckily, I already had it as my number one, and I did very well on phase three and was selected chinooks, which is what I wanted.
So what was it that drew you towards that as you did more research? What was appealing to you that made you want to go for Chinooks?
Yeah, it was the aircraft itself. The Chinook is the fastest helicopter that, uh, the Canadian forces has. It's the heaviest helicopter we have. I just wanted to be a part of that. And then the role itself tackle love it low and fast, potentially in a threat environment. You're working with the ground force. Griffin's do that too. But the Schnucks are, I would say, to a different extent, we can carry more troops. So they're going to use us for Air Mobiles, where they're probably not going to use a Griffin to carry the troops. So just that, uh, interaction with the ground force. This is the stuff that I wanted to do.
That's awesome. And that actually dovetails really nicely into my next question, which is overall, what does the Chinook do? What is its role in the Air Force?
Yes. The Shinook transports troops, equipment and supplies. So it could be anywhere from ammunition, food, water, broken down truck we're going to sling in a Humvee.
So it's basically tactical movement asset.
Yeah, exactly.
You finish phase three, you go to 450 Squadron. How long is the otu?
When I went through, it was a combined course, so it took me eight months. But it's now been separated into Bfo and Tafo. So basic First Officer and Tactical First Officer are now two separate courses. So if you can do the course consistently fly probably six months each. So about a year total. But there's always going to be other stuff that could be more important. So, for example, at the Shiny unit, it's an Otf. So operational, uh, training flight instead of an Otu. So the Otf is a flight within my unit. It's not at a separate unit where it's its own schoolhouse. So because we only have Chenox in Petalawa, that's the only place we can have the school.
The course is conducted by 450 Squadron?
Correct. So it's an otf.
That's super challenging. Super challenging to balance operational needs with, uh, training needs. I've seen firsthand how difficult that is for a wing, much less for one squadron.
So you can imagine the difficulties trying to balance forced generation with force employment.
Mhm. And just for listeners, force generation is essentially training and forced employment is operationally using the aircraft for taskings that have been assigned.
Yeah. That being said, courses are taking longer than it did on the old syllabus just now that they're broken into two courses. So at the end of Bfo there's the potential for them to get a Utility First Officer category. And then once they're done Tafo, they'll get their Tactical First Officer category. Now the intent is to run the courses back to back. We just haven't gotten there yet. So that's the intent. Hopefully this next group is going to be our first one where we can, uh, do it back to back and hopefully that will decrease the training time.
So once you are qualified as an Fo on the squadron, what does a normal day of squadron life look like on the Shiny?
Yeah, probably a normal day at most units. So you're still hopefully going to fly that day. So in that case, if you're flying, you're going to come in two and a half to 3 hours before the flight, plan your route, check the weather, check the note, AMS, all that good stuff.
Notams are notices to airmen and they contain essential information and safety notifications for.
Planning your flight, conduct your pre flight briefings. The flight engineers and loadmasters are going to do the pre flight inspection of the aircraft, make sure that's good to go and then you'll walk out. So typically a Shiny flight is 3 hours, but it can be anywhere from three to 5 hours is what we'll generally do. We won't go above five, although the aircraft can. It's uh, just a long time to be in the seat.
It's a long time in a helicopter.
It definitely is not going to lie. I've landed a couple of times, had to pee. That's a long time not to pee as well. I can do that. Yeah. Typical flights, 3 hours. You'll go do that, you'll come back, you'll debrief and usually be out of there within an hour and a half. Post flight, if you're not flying that day, then you're just working on your officer development stuff. Any secondary duties, helping other people prep for any upcoming missions or flights, that type of thing.
I interviewed Pete Musters recently for the Griffin side of Tack Hill and that sounds quite similar to kind of life in his squadron and most squadrons. How many flights in a week would you typically get?
I would say the average pilot gets two or three.
That's pretty good.
Yeah. As an instructor we're usually flying four to five times a week, but that could be in the SIM or in the aircraft. We're teaching ground school, I guess. So I would say average three to four. But I'm doing something every day. So whether that's ground school SIM or in the aircraft.
Yeah. When I was uh, on the Aurora, we kind of found that three, max four events in a week in terms of sims and flights was a pretty sweet spot because there's just so much book learning and other things to be done as well and secondary duties that sort of balances out at a happy place there.
Absolutely. And I guess I'm a sucker for punishment. I've got like five secondary duties on top of everything, so I'm a busy lady most days.
Can you give us a brief outline of both of those courses? Just kind of a, ah, two minute synopsis of what they involve and what you learn?
Yeah, absolutely. So Bfo, you're going to have your basic day sequences. We've got a part one and two, so part one is just your everyday circuit approach roll on confined area, the basic flying maneuvers. Part two sequences are stuff like restricted area roll on. So you're not necessarily as a helicopter always going to be landing at an airfield. So say you've got an issue and you're out in northern Canada and there's only confined areas that you can land in. So what I mean by confined area is a smaller space. Um, but say you've got that engine issue and you need to land. We've now got a procedure that we teach so that the pilots can get that aircraft into the area on a single engine, even if they're not single engine capable. So, yeah, restricted air roll lines, uh, auto rotations after wheel landings, that type of stuff. So that encompasses the basic day, part one and two sequences. And then the students will have a test after each. So part one and M, part two. Then they'll usually move into instrument flying and they'll get their ticket, as we call it. So their authority to be able to fly, um, under IMC instrument meteorological conditions. So flying in the clouds. And then we'll finish off with night. Again, just basic sequences. So doing what they did by day, just at night, and that's the Bfo course. Then they'll move on to Tafo. Again, that's the tactical first officer course. And that's where we're going to teach them how to fly tactically. So again, they'll have a basic day phase and a basic night phase. But at this point, we're going to throw in some tactics. Have an enemy force, have a friendly force. They're going to get retest, have to pick up a Prialpha or Bravo, bring them to a medical facility.
What's? A prialpha or bravo.
Yeah. So, uh, there's a priority of injury. So Alpha is the highest priority. We have to get them to a medical facility as quick as we can. And then it goes down from there. Bravo Charlie being the lowest, and then Delta is deceased. So we'll give them a retest potentially to go pick up a patient, bring them back to a medical, uh, facility. Could be a retest to go pick up a broken generator. We're just checking their ability to kind of plan on the fly and make sure that they're still capable of working to that high standard under pressure and when the plan doesn't go necessarily as planned.
So just making sure that sort of the fuel numbers and performance numbers and all that stuff still makes sense. And I remember Pete said for the Griffin, part of that was just involved in can the aircraft lift us? I suppose that's less of a question with the Chinook, probably.
Yeah. Definitely less of a question, um, with the chinook. That being said, though, we deal with heavier weights, right? We can carry more people, we can carry heavier loads. So there does come a time when we do have to factor all that in. And if we're in a hotter environment, that plays a factor too. If we've got a heavier load might mean we have to take less fuel, so we still have that consideration, but definitely, uh, to a lesser extent than the Griffin does.
What would you say is the most challenging part of flying the Chinook?
OOH. Well, first off, the Chinook is very fun to fly, and I'm not going to say easy to fly, but it's one of the easier helicopters to fly, I'll say.
Oh, really?
Yeah. We've got the benefits of having modes we can use. So I can have the Chinook hover itself, so I'll put on position and out mode and it'll just sit there, right where I told it to be, until I tell it not to be there anymore. So all the extra systems on the Chinook, um, definitely makes it a lot easier on the pilots. So I would say the most difficult thing when flying a Chinook is flying Daffix off. So that's without any of our stabilization automation, anything like that. And it's basically like flying a Jet Ranger. So there's no extra augmentation for the flight controls. It's just you and the machine.
So when you have all that stuff off, is it still decently, stable, or is it no, pretty difficult, yeah.
No, it's not stable at all. You definitely have to be on the controls and you're making constant inputs and it's definitely fun to do, but it's definitely where you also find out who the real pilots are.
So would you guys typically fly with all that on in, like, uh, a mission setting?
Oh, yeah. We're not going to fly with that off on a mission, but we do practice with it off because there could be a time where there's an aircraft emergency that either a system fails and it kicks off automatically, or there might be a situation where we choose to turn it off. Because, again, we've got an issue with the aircraft and we want to go above a certain speed. We've got two systems, so if one of the systems breaks, we're limited to 100 knots or less. But say we're in a tactical scenario or we've got a, uh, medical patient in the back, we don't want to limit ourselves to 100 knots. So we might elect to turn everything off because then our next limit is significantly higher. It's 160 knots. So we might elect to do it in that case.
So you can do it for extra speed?
Yeah, exactly. Do it for extra speed when required. So that's why we need to practice it.
Yeah, for sure. That's Air Force flying in a nutshell, right? We're always going to practice the strip down difficult, unaided procedures and stuff, just in case we have to one day. Because for us, in those moments, there's often no choice but to press and make it work.
Absolutely.
Okay, it's sales pitch time. Convince me in 30 seconds or less if I'm a new pilot or someone, uh, who's thinking about joining the Air Force. Why should I fly the Chinook? What makes it unique and who would it appeal to?
Yeah, you want to fly Chinook because you're going to go faster, you're going to lift more and you're going to do more than any other helicopter in the Canadian forces. This is the one you want to fly. It is an amazing machine and probably the most maneuverable helicopter we have as well, despite being one of the heaviest. So if you've got a choice, definitely come and fly Schnucks. And if you want to come take a flight, I'll be able to show you why.
Right on. What's an important characteristic for someone who wants to fly the Chinook? Two things.
So definitely if you've got a more calm personality, would be good for tackle. Like you want to be able to think in a crisis is, I guess, more what I mean, just because you are low level, you're fast, and if something happens, I need you to be able to react to that. The other thing is you need to be able to work in a crew environment. So we fly with two pilots and two back enders. For most of our missions, it will usually be a flight engineer and a loadmaster. And you need to have the ability to work in a team and listen to the guys in the back for various reasons. But one of the main things is I can't see behind me, so I don't know if I'm going to hit something behind me in a confined area. So you need to trust and work with your team to be able to get that aircraft into a, uh, tight area, tip to tip. The Chinook is 100ft by 60ft and I'm allowed to land with 10ft around my rotor, so I only need 120 by 80ft to land. And if I'm going to land an aircraft with 10ft all the way around, I definitely need to be able to trust the people who I'm working with and they need to be able to trust me as well.
It's interesting that the message that I hear over and over again from people is how important it is to be a team player. And I think that's kind of something we know. But I think that some people have this image of pilots as kind of like a lone wolf hotshot kind of thing from books and media and movies and things and it couldn't really be further from the truth.
100% agree? Yeah, you definitely need to be able to work with that team, and I would say that's generic across the Air Force, but especially in tackle.
Okay, so now we're going to get into talking about Jackie's experiences in Maui. So first we'll start with some background information about that situation. In 2012, the landlocked country of Mali in West Africa was overrun by terrorist groups moving towards the capital of Bamako in what became known as the Tuareg Rebellion. These groups included a local group, the Tireg Movement, who allied themselves with Al Qaeda. During this turmoil, the military launched a coup de to, causing most government institutions to collapse in the north of the country, which was soon declared independent by the Tuareg movement. They themselves were pushed out by the jihadists. We will refer to all enemy forces as Al Qaeda for simplicity. Eventually, French and African forces were able to push the terrorists north and reclaim much of the independent state. However, Maui requested a UN peacekeeping operation to prevent further destabilization of the region. These troops were deployed in July 2013 with the purpose of protecting civilians, human rights monitoring, creating stability for humanitarian assistance, returning displaced persons, extending state authority, and preparation of free, inclusive and peaceful elections. 275 UN peacekeepers and personnel have died since 2013, making it the deadliest UN peacekeeping mission in the world. Canada's mission was to provide life saving medical evacuation services and in country transport to UN peacekeepers. Jackie and her crew were responsible for bringing a combat medical team from the initial point of injury and bringing them back to a role two hospital. So what was it like for you deploying to Molly? What were your first impressions of the country?
I had a great experience on my deployment overall. Gosh, when I first got there, I was in awe, ah, of how these people were living, surviving and thriving. I'll say it was pretty crazy to see the local communities and how they were living. Just, it doesn't even compare to what we have here in Canada. And you see stuff on TV, but it's definitely different experiencing it in person and being there.
You guys were on, uh, a large UN base, is that right?
So we were on a camp called Camp Caster, and we shared our camp with the Dutch and the Germans. The camp was run by the Germans, so they maintained all the buildings. They supplied the mess hall and people for the mess hall. Um, everything around the camp was run by the Germans. And it's actually a great set up. We had air conditioning in most of the buildings, which was very key when it was plus 50 outside. So that was nice, at least for sleeping, we had some AC, so we were generally three to a room. Pretty small room. There was one bunk bed and one single bed and three lockers, and that was basically all you could fit in that room. So pretty small, but really nice buildings, really nice conditions. The food was excellent, actually. They had a schedule, so you pretty much knew what was going to be, uh, on the menu for that day. It's pretty much the same thing every Monday, every Tuesday. We always had the option for lunch. They would have a sandwich area, so you didn't have to take the mainline meal. You could go make your own thing.
Yeah. Some of the best, uh, mess eating I've ever had was. In the dining facility in Kuwait.
Oh, crazy. Yeah.
It's nice to have air conditioning. It's nice to have good food. It makes it a lot easier to keep on tracking.
Yeah. And I definitely had exactly what you said. You get into that routine. I think halfway through the tour, uh, I was there for six and a half months, and I think halfway through every day at lunch, I would make myself a panini and have a little salad. And that was kind of just something to look forward to, uh, every day. So, yeah, you definitely get into those routines, for sure.
It's comfortable. It's comforting to kind of have your little routines and to know, like, silly, I'd have a slice of carrot cake every Sunday and it's something to look forward to through the week. And it's small things, and when you're back in normal life, it sounds a little ridiculous. But at the time, it's nice to look forward to those things.
Yeah, it means so much at the time. Absolutely.
What is your average day look like there?
So I was the aviation battalion flight safety officer as well. So I was the lead flight safety person for the aviation battalion, which consisted of Griffins and Chinooks. So most of my day actually was dealing with flight safety. So it's pretty crazy. We had, I think, 100 flight safety in the six and a half months that we were there, but that actually shows the good reporting culture that we had. So I was happy to have the extra work because it meant that people were reporting, and then we were able to learn from maybe someone else's mistakes. So that took up most of my days. So I'd briefed the commander in the morning. I would do some investigation, um, or assign stuff to my team, and then I would do the final review before sending it off to be closed or moved to tracking or whatever that might be. So most of my days was taken up by that, with the exception of when I would fly. So if I would be on the schedule for a standby shift or for another mission, then my day would consist of focusing on that mission or that task, uh, specifically.
And what was the op tempo like? How often were you flying?
We probably flew, say, twice a week, maybe three times. Yeah, I got a good amount of flying over there.
That's awesome. Was it only Canadian aircraft flying, or was there a bunch of different types of aircraft operating there?
No, there were definitely a bunch of other aircraft there. So we shared an airfield in Gao with two other camps. So there were three camps there total. So we had Camp Caster, which the Canadians, Dutch, and Germans were all sharing. And then the center camp was the UN camp. So that was where local people would go to work who worked for the United Nations, and they had a big ramp there, and that's where it was kind of a hub for UN supplies and stuff, too. So they'd come in by an airplane and then maybe go out by one of our helicopters, for example. So that was kind of the main ramp for the airfield. And then on the other side were the French and the Brits. They shared a camp over there.
Yeah. The reason I ask is you talk about flight safety and having a bunch of flight safety incidents, but I think it's a lot more common when you're operating in a foreign country. There's going to be local procedures that you have to learn sometimes by experience. And once you start mixing in a bunch of different nationalities and air forces, it's just more likely to be a misunderstanding or a miscommunication or just like different countries doing things in different ways. And it just results in some pretty rapid learning, usually. And those take place in the form of flight safety. And it's important for the people listening to understand that a flight safety report doesn't mean there's been an accident. Anytime there's been even the potential for something to go wrong, we'll file a flight safety and do the investigation so that we can learn from even what could have happened in order to sort of maximize lessons in aviation are often written in blood, and we try to avoid that and learn even from, uh, the potential for something to go wrong.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
So now that we've talked about what life was like there in general, we're going to get into the mission that first got my attention and led me to reach out to you early in the morning. On Sunday, January 20, 2019, al Qaeda launched a complex attack using armed vehicles against a UN camp in Eglehawk, northern Mali. UN forces were able to repel the attack, killing several attackers. But ten UN peacekeepers were killed and 25 others injured. And that's where Jackie and her crew came in. So how did that day start for you?
So I'll back up a little bit. This was at the end of my tour. So we were conducting the handover with my group, which was Roto Zero, over to Roto One. Of course, it happens then, right? So I was one of the last to leave. I was on the third rip out, and that was again because I was the battalion slate safety officer. So I had two weeks of handover with the incoming member. So for the last week that I was there, the same crew held standby, which was not normal. Normal. We would switch off, I believe it was every two days. So we held the standby for a week. And that was just so that the new guys could orientate themselves to the land. So they were doing their families. They were getting accustomed to being in the plus 40, plus 50 heat, which was not a normal thing for Canadians, right? So my crew held standby for a week. And it's crazy. I don't know why, but I just had a feeling that something was going to happen the day prior, for whatever reason, I was like, oh, for sure, we're getting a call out today. And then when it didn't happen, I was like, okay, well, that's the end of the tour. I felt accomplished and we had done good work. And of course, that's when it happens, right? When you least expect it. So we were supposed to hand over that capability fully to Roto One at noon on the 20th, and we got the call at 730 in the morning. So it started for me and my crew by somebody opening the door. Because when you're on standby, we would sleep at our main building that we worked at. There were rooms, bunk beds and stuff for you to sleep in. So one of the Ops guys, I'll back up again. Normally, they would radio us, and we could be in our own personal rooms during the day, and we would just have a radio. So if we got a call out, they would recall the whole crew and go from there. But if we had to stay overnight, then we would go and sleep at the actual unit just to make things quicker. Right? So, yeah, 730, the door to where we were all sleeping opens up and someone's like, Medevac, uh, and just yells, and we're all sleeping. So we kind of, like, open our eyes and we're like, what? And he's like, Get the up, uh, medevac. And we're like, oh, God. So we get going, and, you know, I ran for a quick peek as just woke up from sleeping. And then, you know, boots untied, throw the uniform on. Hair is not done. I'm running out to the aircraft, trying to throw my hair up. I mean, we probably looked ridiculous, but we just wanted to get there as quick as we could. So, me being the first officer, I ran to the aircraft to go start it up. Uh, the aircraft commander, Captain Pete Hanley, went to Ops to get the Int briefing and the mission briefing from Ops any information that we had at that time, and the flight engineer, loadmaster and door gunner followed me out as well to the aircraft for the start. So I went and started up the aircraft. We got permission to conduct starts, not, um, using the checklist while deployed, we were able to do them from memory with the caveat that the door gunner would be, um, following along with the checklist open behind us, so that if the first officer missed something, they would speak up and be like, oh, you forgot this check. And then we would do it.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. So, luckily, um, that sped things up a lot, actually. Um, and I had the aircraft started. We had our countermeasures all good to go, worked up and all within six minutes, which was almost unheard of, but, yeah, six minutes, ready to go. Pete came out, he got himself sorted in the seat, gave a quick update brief. So all that we knew at the time was that there was an attack up in Aglehawk and they needed help. Go that was it. We had no essay on enemy injuries, anything like that. It was, hey, we've been given a task. Go so if you draw a straight line from Gal, which is where we were, to Agile Hawk, it's, ah, basically a two hour flight. The Griffins don't have legs to be able to go 2 hours, um, and then go somewhere to refuel, which would be Cadal. Cadal to Aguhawk is a 45 minutes flight. So if you kind of draw a triangle, gow to the north northwest is Aglhawk, 2 hours, and then you go Aguhk to Cadel. Cadal is east of Aguhawk. That's about a 45 minutes flight. And then if you go Cadal back to Gau, cadal is north of Gal, and that's about an hour, 45 minutes flight. So that's kind of just to orient everyone here. So we got authorized to go single ship from Gau to Cadal, which was where the Griffins were going to have to refuel. So we actually had to go to Cadal for the Griffins to refuel prior to going to Eaglehawk, and that was just because they didn't have the legs to do it. The legs meaning the fuel, they didn't have the fuel to do it. So the Griffins, uh, took off first because they were ready first. Once Pete got in, we got our update brief, we taxied out, did our hover checks, and off we went. So the Griffins, by the time they got going, they were probably five minutes ahead of us, maximum ten, and I went, you know, both to the wall, uh, as they say. So I was pulling 95% torque the whole way there and we got there half an hour ahead of them. So we made really good time getting there. And part of the reason we did that was so we could get an update brief prior to going to Egglehawk, because again, we launched with very little information, right? So we landed, we took on a little bit of fuel. Not full bags, just a little bit, because at that time, our understanding was we were going to bring any patients we picked up back to Cadel because that was the closest medical facility. So we didn't want to waste time taking on all this fuel when we could use that time better and take on what we need, and then send them over to the Griffins when they landed and got there. So that's what we did. We took on a bit of fuel and then we met up with the Sector East commander, who at the time, I believe was a French general, very nice man, and he gave us a bit of an update from there. So his update brief, from what I remember, was that, uh, there were still injured personnel requiring pickup and that the terrorists who did the attack had stolen a UN pickup truck. So that, to us, told us we had to positively identify friend or foe. So any white pickup truck that had UN on the side didn't necessarily mean it was friendly to us at that time based off of that intelligence.
Yeah, no kidding.
Which is huge. So that was a big piece of information, which, um, we definitely utilized. And then the other thing was that one of the ops hadn't checked in. So one of the observation points, uh, one of the outer perimeter points that is used, you'll have someone in there looking out prior to the main base, and one of those points hadn't checked in. So we didn't know if those soldiers at that point had been killed or captured or injured and weren't able to call. We didn't know. So that was another piece of information, because we want to avoid that point initially, because we don't know if that's been taken over by the enemy in this case. So really good information that we got. And one thing that I didn't say on our way in, there was an Mi eight that had come in with wounded. And so we weren't sure if we were late to the party or if there were more injured persons to be picked up. And it was at that time that the French general, um, let us know. No, there are definitely more people to go and pick up. And please get going as soon as you can. So that's exactly what we did. Okay, well, the Griffins fueled up. They landed, fueled up, and we went as a package. So the package in Molly was one Chinook and two Griffins. So the intent was that we would fly in a formation together, but then the Griffins would go prove that the landing site was safe prior to us bringing in that medical team. So that's kind of how we work. So you could always expect, if you saw Shannon, there'd probably be two Griffins nearby. So, yeah, they refueled, and then off we went. So we landed at the grid. We had been given initially no updated grid. And we land, and there's nobody there. And we're like, what? We were expecting all of these injured people who needed help, and nobody's there. So we're like, what is going on? So we sent out one of our Force Protection members. I guess I should say that the medical crew on the Chinook consisted of one doctor, one nurse, two medics. So we would have four medical personnel on the aircraft as part of that Ford Air Medevac capability, and we would have four Force Protection members. So that was usually infantry soldiers who had deployed with us, and they were tasked with protecting those medical people and the aircraft went on the ground. So if we sent the medical people out to go get a patient, they're not focusing on what's around them. Well, I'm sure to an extent they are, but their primary focus is on that patient and making sure that they're doing everything they can for that patient. And in order for them to do that, they need to make sure that they're safe as well. And our response to that was to have soldiers protecting them so those four Force protection members would be out there all the time with them as well. So what we did is we dropped maybe one or two of the Force Protection people off and I think, uh, the medic and the nurse, and then we took off. Again, off we went, and we went to a safe height and kind of a safer location to keep that Shinook asset safe. And then the Griffins would stay and provide that overhead protection for the personnel we had on the ground. So the location we were told to land at was right next to the Fob in Agohawk. Fob is Forward Operating Base. So the people we dropped off were able to make contact with the people at that local Fob and kind of get the low down there because, again, we didn't really have too much information at that point. So that was great that they were able to do that. Now while that's going on, Pete and M myself up in the aircraft get a message from Ops and they say, hey, Valkyrie, you're going to bring those people back to Gal. And we're like, oh, okay, stand by. Because again, remember, we had planned that 45 minutes flight worth of fuel to bring them back to Cadal because again, that was the closest facility. So our assumption once we received that message from Ops was that Cadal was full and that's why we had to bring them back to Gal. So we said stand by. Pete did a quick fuel calculation, and based off of the fuel that we had, again, expecting to go to Cadal, which was less than half the distance, we realized that we only had four minutes. So we had four minutes worth of fuel to find these patients, oh, wow, pick them up and bring them all the way to Gal. So we discussed it as a crew and we made the decision to use up that, uh, 15 minutes that you always plan with for Vfr fuel. And we gave the ground force 19 minutes. So the four plus the 15, so we radioed our guys on the ground and we said, hey guys, we have 19 minutes to find these people and take them back to Gal. Otherwise, instead of a two hour flight, we are going to have to bring them 45 minutes to Cadal to get fuel, and then another hour, 45 minutes after the time it takes to refuel back to Gau. Which is? Just not acceptable. Because I'll tell you later on just how bad these patients were, but they did not have the ability to go to Ghetto, wait for us to refuel, and then go. So that was the time we gave them. We let Ops know that, okay, that's what we're going to do. And luckily, the guys we dropped on the ground were able to make contact with that fog pretty quickly, find out where these injured personnel were, and we were actually able to pick them up and get going all within that 19 minutes.
That's awesome.
M. Yeah, it's crazy. So we find out where they are and somehow it's communicated for them to come to us. So we're told, hey, come back in ready for pickup. So that's what we do. We, uh, do that approach, back down, grab our guys, and we wait. And what do we see coming towards us? A bunch of white pickup trucks with UN on the side. And if you remember from earlier, we had to positively identify now because, again, we didn't know for sure if they were friendly or foe. So at that point, I was in the left hand seat, pete was in the right hand seat. And normally our flight engineer will be on the right cabin door, and the left door will be our door gunner. And the ramp will be manned by our loadmaster. So at that point, um, the trucks are coming from our 11:00. So that was my side of the aircraft to clear. And I said to our door gunner at the time, Andy, I was like, hey, get ready. Coming at our 11:00. I gave a distance and I let him know that I was ready to pull pitch as we say or take off and to be ready to shoot if required. So he was ready on his gun. We were all prepared. We were looking where we needed to look. And as they got closer, we could see there were multiple vehicles. And again, we had only been told one was stolen. So that gave a little bit of, uh, okay, this might be who we're expecting. And then they get closer and gosh. It was out of the movies, I have to tell you. Like, these guys, they were laying in the back of these pickup trucks. Their buddy were holding saline drips up as high as they can, and they were not doing well. Yeah, uh, we could see them coming, and thank God we were there to help. So they came, we stayed on the ground. We, uh, took on the casualties. We had one pride. Alpha. And you'll remember from earlier that's the highest priority, they need to get to a medical facility immediately. We had three prize, Bravos and four Charlies. So we had eight patients in total for the four medical staff. And one of our prize, Charlie's, had been shot in the head four times.
Wow.
Luckily, they were grazes. He was just in shock, so that was why he was on board our aircraft. But that'll give you a sense of what these guys went through. And of course, we didn't know that at the time. We found that later on.
I was going to ask if the wounds were largely gunshots or explosion related.
Or yeah, largely gunshots. So for two of our patients, the medical staff, we found out again later, couldn't find veins to get an IV in, so they had to drill into their bones to get blood product in for them to even begin to start working on them. So I think one got drilled in below the knee and another got drilled into the shoulder. They were not in a good place. And our medical guys we had on board that day were unreal and they did an amazing job. I'll backtrack a little. So we get these guys on board, we now take off. And now it's a balancing act. You want to get them there as quickly as you can, but a, uh, chinook vibrates quite a bit. And when you're injured and you have broken bones and your intestine or out of your body, you have to balance. Okay, yes, we want to get them quick, but the faster we go, the more vibes we have. So can these people handle that? Is this going to make it worse? And then the other aspect was our fuel. So we had to set the best speed. That was ultimately was the highest priority, was we had to make sure we.
Could get there for listeners. You may think on the top of your head that, hey, just go as fast as possible, but ultimately, each aircraft has a speed that is kind of the most fuel efficient, that will get you the most distance. And in this situation, as much as you may want to be there as soon as possible, when you're at minimum fuel, you have to set your most efficient speed.
Exactly. So, again, I did all the flying for that day. Um, I was the PF and the PM was Captain Hanley. There.
PF means pilot flying and PM means pilot monitoring.
So as soon as we got up to altitude, that was when he immediately did another fuel calc just to make sure that we still could, in fact, get back to Gao, which is where we were told to bring these people. And we still had enough fuel to get there. Again, it was going to be tight, but we did have enough. So, yeah, we set that best speed. And at the time, we're kind of amped up. And so we don't fully realize in the front, or I'll say maybe I won't speak for him, but I know I didn't realize exactly the magnitude of what and who we had in the back. So for us, we're just like, okay, we picked these people up. This is awesome. We're getting them to a medical facility, like, yeah, we're doing our job. This is going to be great. And then 30 minutes out from Gal, that's when our medic passed the mist. And that was when Pete and I, up front, I think, realized the magnitude of what was going on in the back of that aircraft. Because on my side, I also don't have a mirror. At least Pete had a little mirror he could kind of look back on.
What's a mist?
Um, it's a quick synopsis, essentially, of the damage that the person has received. So it's like a quick synopsis of what's going on with the patient that you can push forward to the medical facility that they're going to so that they have an idea of a, what's coming for them, and B, who to send out to meet and accept these people from us.
Okay, so this is information for you guys to pass forward to the people receiving you on the ground?
Exactly, yeah, for the medical people. So this just gives them kind, uh, of an understanding. So at least for me, that was the first time I kind of realized exactly what the hell was in the back of our aircraft. And, uh, these people were not in a good state. And thank God we went and got them and had the people on board that we had, because I'm telling you, those people did some good work for these guys that we picked up. So we're 30 minutes back from Gal. That mist was passed up to Ops and then disseminated to the appropriate people from there. And shortly after that, probably ten minutes later, we got, uh, a low fuel light, which, again, we were expecting, and turning final. We got our actually not turning final. Prior to that, probably five minutes back, we got our other low fuel light, but still enough fuel to make it 100%. So we weren't worried about it. Continued did our approach. And the drop off point was always at the minusma ramp or that center ramp that we talked about earlier, the UN ramp. So that's where we went in. And as we're taxing in, we didn't see anyone there, so we started getting a little mad, like, holy, we've got all these badly broken people in the back of our aircraft. Where the hell are these people who are going to accept them? Well, it turned out as we got closer, they were just so neatly lined up on the side that it just looked like parked vehicles, but they were actually the medical vehicles ready to receive us. So as we get in, we're like, oh, okay, thank God they're already there. Yeah. So we taxied in and we did the offload. And during the offload, I was managing the fuel, so I saw that we had £780 in the right tank and £430 of fuel in the left tank. So while we're on the ground, I opened the cross feed, turned off the left pumps and had both engines pulling fuel from the right tank, which again, had more fuel at 780. And we did the offload. And I think that took gosh time, is hard to tell that day, but yeah, no doubt. I'm sure it took probably up to ten minutes just because, again, we had eight people that our medical staff had to do transfers for. So they did that transfer and then we're ready to get going again, and they put all the pumps back on, close across feed, got ready for the taxi, and then we're heading back to our side again, because, remember, there's those three camps that shared the runway. So we're now taxiing back to our side and definitely we're parked in spot. And before I was able to shut down the engine, it shut down itself. So we flamed out, ran, uh, out of fuel. So it was close, but we knew that that's why you have those 15 minutes of fuel for Vfr that you plan for, because that was our saving grace, and that was the option that we chose and made a conscious decision to use so that we could get those people back to where they needed to go. So it was still surprising when it happened. Um, but also, I guess, kind of to be expected. So our fuel planning worked out and we were able to do what we needed to do.
Yeah, it sounds like you guys planned it out perfectly. I mean, those are the kind of textbook situations where you would take your fuel down to the wires to save someone's life, or in your guys case, maybe eight lives.
Absolutely.
I don't see a better time where you would do that.
And I'll tell you this, as far as I'm aware, everyone lived. So our PRI Alpha, the surgeon that he needed, the leading surgeon was in gao that day for one of the countries we were working with. And he was able to get surgery in Gau immediately. And that definitely saved his life. And he was, uh, arievacked out. I'm not sure where he went, but he was arrived out the next day outside of Gao and we were told that he survived and he was the one we were worried about. Yeah, we actually had a hand in savings, which was pretty cool. So horrible situation and horrible day for them, but Canadians actually helped save lives and we made a difference over there, so that was pretty cool to be a part of.
So when you guys got this tasking and you're getting ready to go, did it feel like any normal flight, or did you guys have a feeling that this was something big?
No, it didn't feel like something big. It was we, uh, got a task. So we had had other Medivax prior to that. Definitely nothing to this extent. I think we had seven in total for my Roto. I was a part of two. But they were as easy as somebody broke a thumb. Wasn't, um, able to get back right away, so they asked us to pick them up. You know, it could be as easy as that. It doesn't have to be as crazy as the Agahawk Day. I don't think it was until after, like, I got home and was reflecting back on that day that I really realized what we did that day. So, yeah, definitely at the time, no, it didn't feel any different.
When you guys found out there had been an attack, and especially with that truck missing, did you feel there was much risk of, say, landing and then there being a repeat attack or a plan to draw an aircraft, or was that not on your mind?
That was definitely a possibility, but again, at the time, that was not on my mind. The mission was to go pick up these people and we were going to go do that. And if something came up unexpected, we were going to deal with that and we were still going to go pick up those people. So that was kind of the mindset. Um, I'm sure subconsciously considerations were made and things were thought about, but we had our mission and that's what we were going to get done. And again, I don't think it was until later, reflecting back on it, that I really realized how poorly things could have gone. But at the same time, we were trained to do a job, and so my mind was set on doing that job and completing that mission. So it's probably later on.
Did you find that, uh, having that force protection personnel and having, I think you guys have three guns on the chinooks, does that give you a certain sense of security?
Oh, absolutely. And we talked earlier about trusting your team and being able to work in a team. And we had all worked together previous to the deployment, but more specifically on the deployment. And I trusted every single person on that aircraft, just like I know they trusted me. So I wasn't worried. I felt safe all the time. I felt like I was well protected. Yes, you're correct. We have three C sixes on the Chenok, one in the left door, one in the right door, and one on the ramp. And then we also always had our Griffin escorts and, uh, they had a Gal 21 and they had a Dylan on board, so we're definitely well protected firepower wise. And then whenever we're on the ground, the Griffins were overhead keeping an eye out for us. And then we also had those force protection personnel on the aircraft. So in the event we had to go to ground, for whatever reason, whether we're a shot down or an emergency landing or whatever it might be, we had those four people on board and they were the experts in their field, so the air crew are the experts. When we're in the air, but say we ever had to go to ground, then it was already understood that those four soldiers were going to take control and we were going to listen to them because we all wanted to survive. So luckily, that never happened. We never had to rely on them. But at no point did I feel unsafe. I always felt safe there.
What were you as air crew armed with?
So we had the C Eight or C Seven, depending what they gave us. I had a C Eight, uh, and.
A pistol, and that'd be the Browning high power, a firm Old Faithful.
That's it.
So this mission led to mention dispatches for a bunch of the crew, including your captain, as well as a bunch of the medical team, I believe, the leader of the force protection team.
Correct.
As well as the Canadian forces unit commendation for your, uh, Roto Zero. When did you guys find out about that?
We found out when everyone else found out, actually, or I'll say I found out. So I don't know if the people who actually got the mention in dispatches were told earlier or not. I'm not sure. But yeah, the rest of us found out with everyone else. So all of these mention in dispatches were definitely very well earned. I hope you can see that for yourself. Judging by the story, there were some incredible people that day who did an incredible job, I would say went above and beyond what is and should be expected of them. Um, so those mentioned in dispatches were definitely very well deserved. Um, and yeah, we found out at the same time everyone else did.
It sounds like a very complex mission with a bunch of changing parameters, and a bunch of people had to make the right decisions in a very quick, timely fashion or people were going to die. And it sounds like you guys did everything right down to the line, and so everyone lived. So it sounds worth a mention of dispatches to me.
And one thing I didn't mention is absolutely the story of picking up these people and bringing them back was definitely one to mention. But that wasn't the end of our day. So we refueled and we went back out and we actually resupplied that Fob because they had lost, I think it was like 25 people injured and ten deceased or something like that at the end of the day. So they needed to be reinforced because this was not, you know, a big Fob again. Ford operating bays. So we took a bunch of soldiers, I think we had 43 total in the end. And, uh, the Chinook is rated for 32 with seatbelts, but we got off seats plus. So yeah, we had, uh, 43 people, if I remember correctly, in the back of the aircraft. And we loaded up the center of the aircraft with ammunition for them to bring in as well. And I think some water, and we went back out and we brought them to Cadal. And subsequently they were, they were brought out to the, uh, Ford operating base after that. And then finally, as the, uh, sun was starting to go down, we made our way back to Gal because we waited in Cadal for a bit just to make sure there wasn't any follow on attacks or anything like that, where they needed our help again. So, yeah, we waited a little bit after that and then kind of as the sun was going down, that's when we're like, okay, we think our day is done and we're going to head home.
That's a long day.
It was a long day and yeah, lots of aircraft that day, lots of Canadians helping out. And, uh, at the end of the day, I know that we made a difference in the people that we picked up.
I think the article I read said three Griffins and two Chinooks that day were launched. So Canada was doing a lot of good work that day, for sure.
Yeah, we were.
So do you think that would qualify as probably your best day in the aircraft in your time in the Canadian forces?
Absolutely, yeah. Hands down, that is the day that, uh, I'll tell my grandkids about one day. And that's the day where I think I felt most accomplished in my 14 years.
So taking a step away from Molly and just getting into a couple more kind of generic questions that I think are good for the prospective pilots to hear, what is the most important thing you do to keep yourself ready for your job?
I think the most important thing is to take a break when you can. So I think a lot of us are type A personalities and we have a tendency for we want to be the best, so we're go, go, go, we're going to get it done. And that's the type of personalities that we need, honestly, in this job for most of the job. Not all of it, but a good chunk of it. So we do need those people. But it's important to understand that when you can take a break, you need to take that break so that you are ready to do the job when you're asked to do it. And whether that's an exercise or a deployment, I'm sure you can attest to it. We're gone so much on training and doing our job for deployments and stuff like that, but we're gone so much that when you can actually take that second and just relax and be with your friends and be with your family, it is really important to do so. And that's only going to benefit you later on.
I love asking that question because everyone gives me a different answer and they're all great pieces of advice. And it is so important to maintain that balance. I think especially it's insidious in this job. Where you're doing something you love, you're doing something exciting, but it's also really hard. It's very difficult and it's very demanding. And even though you love it, you can burn yourself out if you don't maintain a balance and you don't take breaks. So I think that's a great piece of advice. We're down to the last couple of questions. The next two are kind of philosophy on being a pilot. So what do you think makes a good pilot?
The biggest one is being able to work in that crew environment. Now maybe that's not the case for the fighter pilots. I can't speak to that because I am not one, but definitely in helicopters, tackle for sure, but I would suggest fixed wing as well. You need to be able to work in that crew environment and be able to trust the people around you. And I think that that trust is earned. There's a certain level of trust that is assumed by the fact that you have passed all of your courses and you have your wings. But I would say that last 20% is earned and that can also be lost, right? If you, uh, have a situation where someone doesn't perform where you expect them to and you could lose that trust. So that's the biggest thing for me is being able to work in a team because I need to be able to trust the people that are in my aircraft, whether it's the one beside me or the guys in the back. And I need to be able to trust them 100%.
And I think that applies to everybody. I've had lots of discussions on the show about the importance of teamwork and it's no surprise that that would be a top contender in terms of what makes a good pilot. And again, I think we did touch on that earlier, that a lot of people listening might make that assumption that, you know, pilots would be a hot shot, standalone kind of person. That's just a false image. Even among Spider pilots. They need to learn to work with their squadron and with their wingman and certainly with any kind of crude aircraft. If you're not a team player, it's just not going to work for you.
Absolutely.
If you're listening to this and you want to be a pilot, you need to be working on your ability to work in a team and play nice with others. Hopefully this show attracts new pilots, people in the training system now potentially air cadets, people who are interested in joining. So what would your advice be to those prospective pilots?
I would just say keep working towards that goal. You can definitely do anything you set your mind to. I, uh, think both you and I are proof of that. So keep working towards that goal, do everything that you can to get there, and one day you will. If you want it bad enough, you can really do anything. And also if maybe it doesn't work out, then maybe there was another path you were meant to do. And that's okay too. But, uh, I would suggest that if you put in the work and you truly put in the work to study and chair fly and all that, if pilot is what you want to do, then really you can get there.
That's really good advice. It doesn't just happen. Even if you're a good pilot, it doesn't just happen 100% at this level. It takes a lot of work. You're going to be running checklists nightly. You're going to be practicing. You're going to be sitting in a chair in your kitchen pretending to fly an airplane. Chair fly.
Absolutely.
It takes a ton of intentional effort. And uh, if you're listening to this, you need to think long and hard about if this is what you want to do. And if it is, then you just give it. And I also, though, really appreciate what you said, that it's true, it isn't for everybody. And you may try this out and then decide yourself not to continue or you may not make it. And that's okay too. It's always good to go and give it a try. And when you're in flight training, it feels like it would be the end of the world for it not to work. But the truth is, it's a big world out there, so you may find it's not for you. And there will be something else.
Yeah, absolutely. 100%.
So that's pretty much it. As far as questions that I had.
I think that was great. Thank you so much for having me on here. I definitely was a little nervous telling the story because I've told the story over a beer before, but never publicly.
It's a hell of a story. I, uh, think you did a great job. And I kind of went to do some research because I wanted to gain some background knowledge. I was really surprised to see that there was not really there was the same article in every newspaper they had all just sort of said the basics of an attack happened in Canada, launched so many helicopters, and here's the commander's quote, and that's that. And I kind of thought there would be more on the attack or something, but it just sort of seems like this mission was fairly quiet. So I hope people hear this and they learn more about it and learn more about what you guys were doing over there.
That's 100% a true statement. I was also surprised that the story wasn't really told. And I don't think even people back in Canada, in the military, fully realized what we did that day. It really was pretty incredible. And yeah, the fact that the story hasn't been told until literally today, until right now, um, is pretty crazy. And the mention in dispatches were put forward and thankfully those were accepted for some of the members of the crew. And I was also surprised that the story never got out. But also, I haven't really said the story until now, and I know no one else really has other than friends, so I think people just don't know about it. And then all of a sudden, these mention in dispatches came out and the unit citation, and I think that was when people were kind of like, what? What happened?
I know that when I talk to I keep saying Pete, as if you know him. I think I said before, Pete Musters is the guy interviewed for Griffin's, and he's a good buddy of mine here. He was familiar with it. I said, oh, I'm going to interview Jackie Ruiz and she did that medevac in Maui. And he goes, that's quite a story. So the story has made its rounds, at least amongst Tack Hill, but hopefully some people hear this and it gets out there because it's a hell of a story and you guys accomplished something really amazing that day.
It was a hell of a story. Yeah. And I'm proud of what we did and I'm proud of the crew and we did something pretty incredible and it was cool to be a part of that. But even better, um, those people lived.
So thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it, hearing about the mission and your insight about flying. And I just really appreciate you taking this time to hang out and chat, especially because it was kind of an out of the blue message. So thanks so much for making time for this.
Yeah, thank you so much for having me and I'm really glad you asked to hear about it. It's kind of cool to think back. You forget about the stuff you've done because you're so focused on what you're doing now. So it was kind of cool to think back on my time in Molly and what we did there. And I had a great experience. It was a great tour and so this was fun looking back on that experience.
Okay, that's going to wrap it up for our episode on the Ch 147 Chinook, as well as Jackie's experiences flying Medevac in Maui. For the next episode, I sat down with Lieutenant Colonel Colin Peak and Colonel Chris Morrison, aka Morty, to discuss delays in the pilot training system. Many of the questions were taken from a reddit thread we posted and it generated some great discussion. You don't want to miss it. Do you have any questions or comments about something you've heard or have a topic you'd like to hear discussed? Send us an email at the pilotproject podcast@gmail.com or reach out on social media at ah at podpilotproject. We absolutely love to hear from our fans. As always, we'd like to thank you for your support and ask you for your continued help with the Big Three. Share with your friends like and follow us on social media and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See ya.