Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to the Opkalla IT Matters Podcast, where we discuss the important matters within IT as well as the importance of IT across different industries and responsibilities.
About Opkalla:
Opkalla helps their clients navigate the confusion in the technology marketplace and choose the technology solutions that are right for their business. They work alongside IT teams to design, procure, implement and support the most complex IT solutions without an agenda or technology bias. Opkalla was founded around the belief that IT professionals deserve better, and is guided by their core values: trust, transparency and speed. For more information, visit https://opkalla.com/ or follow them on LinkedIn.
Aaron Bock: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast hosted by
Opkalla. We're an IT advisory
firm that makes technology easy
for your business. Our vendor
neutral technology advisors work
directly with your team to
assess technology needs and
procure the best IT solutions
for your organization. On this
podcast, expect high level
expertise from our hosts, plus
experience driven perspective
from the leading experts on
topics like AI, cybersecurity,
industry focused IT solutions,
strategy and more. Now let's get
into today's discussion on what
matters in IT.
Keith Hawkey: This episode is
brought to you by Zscaler, the
world's leading cloud security
platform. Let's talk about VPNs
and firewalls. They've been the
backbone for security for
decades, but let's face it,
they're outdated complex. It can
hold your business back, and
that's where Zscaler comes in.
Zscaler takes your organization
off the network and into the
cloud with their zero trust
exchange making your security
simpler, smarter and more
effective by creating a direct
connection between your users
and applications they need.
Zscaler eliminates the
unnecessary traffic jams and
reduces costs and complexity.
With Zscaler, your business
isn't weighed down by old school
infrastructure. You'll increase
agility, improve security and
enable your teams to move faster
than ever before, all while
knowing your data is fully
protected. So why stick with the
old when the new is this good?
Transform your security with
Zscaler and experience true
business agility. Visit
zscaler.com to learn more and
take the first step toward a
simpler and secure future.
Welcome to the IT Matters
podcast hosted by Opkalla. We
are an IT advisory firm that
helps businesses navigate the
vast and complex IT marketplace.
At Opkalla, we work alongside IT
teams to design, procure and
implement and support it
solutions without an agenda or
technology bias. But on this
podcast, you can expect a high
level of expertise from our
host, plus interviews with
leading experts and topics like
AI, cybersecurity, industry
specific IT solutions and
strategy. Now let's get into
today's discussion on what
matters in IT. Aaron, who do we
have the pleasure of guessing on
the IT managed podcast today.
Aaron Bock: Yeah, it's good to
see you, Keith. We've got Grant
Walsh, who is the leader of
infrastructure and security at
Flow Control Group based here in
Charlotte today. Grant, welcome
to the show.
Grant Walsh: Thank you, sir. I
am pumped to be here.
Aaron Bock: Love the Opkalla
orange that you've got on today.
Oh, there we go. We go way back
with grant. So he's a he's a
fan, and we're a fan of him. So
thanks for joining the show
where we're excited to to
interview and learn from you
today. But I think Keith's got
something for us to start off
with today, So Keith, I'll pass
it to you.
Keith Hawkey: Yes, I have a
little little trip, yeah, game
for the two of you today, if
you're willing, Grant absolutely
you're willing to put your mind
to the metal, two truths and a
lie. And it is based on the
recent CES robots edition
consumer electronics 2025 that
they had earlier this year. So
I've come up with there's three
robots I'm going to introduce,
and two of them are actually at
the event. One of them is
completely made up, okay, all
right. Are we ready? Let's go.
Ready? All right. All right,
team. Let's play a quick round
of two truths and a lie. CES
robots edition, hey, here we go.
Option a Meet mirumi, a sloth
inspired emotional support robot
that attaches to your bag and
reacts bashfully when touched,
averts its gaze and even size
when overwhelmed by attention
option B, say hello to toast. E,
a bread scented AI robot that
delivers motivational quotes
every morning while toasting
actual slices of bread. And
option C then there is arrow cat
tower, an air purifier that
doubles as a luxury cat tree. It
cleans the air and tracks your
cat's weight and syncs your
phone to deliver daily feline
wellness reports. I. So we have
marumi, the emotional sloth. We
have toast e the motivational
toaster and arrow cat tower, the
air purifier, feline health and
wellness expert.
Grant Walsh: They're all legit.
They all actually could see any
one of those being an actual
robot.
Aaron Bock: Yeah, I Grant, I
don't know I, I'm thinking B.
The smell of bread just seems
like a random smell that some AI
bot made up.
Grant Walsh: I could, I mean, I
yeah, I mean, I think people
love cats a lot. A lot of
viewers love cats. So I can see,
see for sure, being one and
tracking your cats weights
important, I guess, and the
emotional support sloth, we all
need emotional support, yeah, I
mean, and that's, and that's
airline friendly, so I feel like
you could take it when you
travel. So that would be, you
know, benefit there the toasting
one. I just seemed as much as I
say, No, I still say like, well,
it does multiple functions. It
gets toast, and it smells like
bread, and it gives you
motivational quote, The Adeline,
B is the lie.
Aaron Bock: I think B is the
lie.
Keith Hawkey: And the answer is,
b, that is the lie.
Congratulations. So you have
both won the beta version of
marumi, the emotional support
sloth. Let's go. So expect that
in your mail there actually is a
toaster that, instead of
toasting bread, you slot your
phone in there and it charges
yourself. So it's a little bit
of a variation of that
Aaron Bock: I did see that it
charges it in like, under a
minute, or something crazy.
Yeah, that's awesome. Well,
thank you for indulging us with
with that wonderful CES trivia
today. Grant, we're excited to
have you on the show today, I
guess, for the audience out
there who don't know you and
your background. How about start
with your introduction of just
how you how you got into it, and
your journey to where you're at
today as a leader in it. And
then we'll kind of dig in from
Grant Walsh: Yeah, if we go way
back, back into the 19th, 1900s
there.
the name golly, my it, don't say
it career, but me for it, have
always been, I guess. Remember
1986 getting the Commodore 64
and typing out commands in a
book and run running games that
way, and putting ball cards into
a small, little database back
then. But I've always been kind
of a tech guy when it comes to
it did that worked at Radio
Shack from back in the day, for
a lot of folks who don't know
radio check, but that was, that
was the place to be for
technology. But overall, for,
you know, the actual IT career
started back in 2003 in the
infrastructure operation side of
things. Majority of my career
really has been in leadership.
So I've had opportunity to grow
from, you know, a lead service
engine, a service engineer or it
analyst, depending with how you
call the roles up through, you
know, site managers, regional
managers, senior managers and
some large organizations have
the opportunity work for some
smaller companies where you get
to do everything from E
commerce, social media, ERP,
service desk, the whole nine
yards. So good exposure there.
But now, you know, in the in a
director capacity, or head of
infrastructure and security for
the company. Met now, but it's
been about, I said, 22, 23 some
odd years in IT with like so the
vast majority, in the in a
leadership capacity. And that's
really been the most fun,
working with people, watching
people grow, driving cultural
change. That is, that's, that's
that's my bread and butter. Like
some, some people geek out on
technology, and I, I used to,
but now it's like just, you
know, helping people grow,
driving solutions to the
business and just driving that
change wherever. You know you
have to work. I don't think
anybody, and you know that I've
worked with ever comes in, I
don't have to work. I'm just
here for a good time. But you
know, trying to make it a good
time is really what's been the
joy of my career so far.
Aaron Bock: And I guess on that,
because if you think about you,
you just said you're not you
used to geek out, maybe not as
much now. But like, if you
compare the IT function in a
business to accounting,
marketing, et cetera, it's all
changing because of technology,
right? So technology is what's
driving it, and in technology,
it's growing. It's changing
faster than ever. So like,
what's, in your opinion, like,
is it harder? Is it what's the
difference between leading,
like, an IT team and keeping
good culture, versus, like,
maybe an accounting team or a
finance team, etc? And the
organizations you've worked at,
Grant Walsh: I think today is
different because the technology
is changing so fast that we're
kind of at a tipping point in
terms of, there's a lot of good
IT, engineers, services, people,
people that know technology for
a while, but we're pivoting to,
and I think Cloud's been around,
obviously, Cloud's been around
for a number of years, but we're
kind of tipping into, do we
have. Enough expertise on the
cloud side? Do we have enough
expertise on the AI side that
you're trying to encourage to
help people grow into those new
areas so they'll get passed by?
Because if you've just been
server 2016 windows on on the an
IPv before type environment, and
that's all you've ever done.
Cool, but those opportunities
are lessening and lessening
because technology is changing
so fast, so trying to have a
culture where you want people to
grow, and then trying to, as a
leader, you know, kind of pour
into that growth and want people
to grow, and then the folks that
don't, and your company's
evolving and changing and
becoming, you know, they're
adapting to this new technology,
having those real, honest
conversations with folks that
don't want to change that maybe
this isn't the place for you. So
it's it's tough on the IT side,
just because that there is so
much change happening so fast
that you have to keep your
people up so they don't get
passed by.
Keith Hawkey: Those are great
points, Grant. I mean, you guys
are moving very quickly, and I'm
curious, how would you describe
the team culture and the IT
department of Flow Control,
What? What? How do you like if
you're in if you're interviewing
a prospect to join your team?
What would you say about the
culture that you instill.
Grant Walsh: So the culture we
try to drive, from a leadership
standpoint, is really a servant
leadership culture, where we
pour into our team, we try to
help our team grow. But one
thing that I've done, and I've
had the opportunity to build the
whole team here at Flow Control,
when I got here, was me, one
service desk person and two
engineers, and now we're much
larger than that. We've built
out the entire team, but I value
the input of all our engineers,
all our services folks, all of
our managers, so much so that
when we do interviews, it's not
me doing interviews. I want it
to be a cultural fit so that
team is comfortable working with
this new individual. Like, are
they going to come in and chip
in where necessary? Are they
going to come in and wear a lot
of hats? Like, I'm if I'm coming
in, I'm just a backup guy.
That's not really what we're
looking for. You have to be to
feel flexible to do servers.
Today could be a networking
issue. Tomorrow, could be
working with a partner in the
firewall. Whatever the case may
be, is be flexible and be
concerned about your team. Now
my my goal from leadership
standpoint, is to ensure that
culture is not burning you out.
So we do do a, I think, a good
job in terms of trying to set
that line of work life balance.
So it's the expectations. You're
not coming in working seven days
a week. And I know some IT
groups do. They work all the
time. They work nights, they
work weekends. I've been there,
done that. That's tough, and
sometimes you have to go to that
while you're building that
change, because you're trying to
get everything where it is. But
I think we're at with Flow
Control Group. I control group.
Sure, you're gonna do patching,
you're gonna do some migrations
at night, you're gonna do some
things here and there, but the
norm is not to have that work
life balance so skewed that
people get burned out and don't
want to come in the next day. So
I want to make sure our team has
that, and that's the kind of
culture we sell when they when
they come in, they're going to
come in, we're going to have a
good time. We're going to, you
know, I won't say we're family,
because that's kind of cliche.
Because we're not family, we are
work buddies. We're gonna do our
jobs, we're gonna go home, go a
separate ways. We can leave and
come back the next day, refresh.
I don't want you to, I don't
want to be your work buddy. I
don't want to, you know, I love
you guys when you're here at
work, but when we leave, go home
your family, go home to whatever
makes you happy. So tomorrow
you're recharged and you're
ready to work. And then again,
when something blows up, and it
does, you're an IT. Something
will happen. Will blow up that
All right, everyone stops. How
can I help? What can I do? How
can we rally around this
problem, get it taken care of,
and get back to what we were
working on before? So that's the
culture. We built a Flow Control
Group, and we have a really,
really good team, and I think,
not by any force. And Aaron's
been there and met our team, not
by any force, not by anything
that's directed or demanded.
We've ended up with a very
diverse team of individuals from
different backgrounds, different
ethnicities, different gender,
just everything by no force. We
just find the right people, and
they are so good, and I have in
those different perspectives
when they look at issues or
concerns or things. Hey, here
what I think, or here's what
I've seen in the past, has
helped us really push, you know,
push things forward and drive
that kind of truck, that change
we're looking for just through
natural, just, you know,
experience that they've had. So
again, we haven't gone out and
tried to look for this stuff,
and we just hire the right
people. We have our team again,
interview everybody. We bring
the teams of people and say,
Hey, so we're interviewing for
this role. Who wants to jump in
and help out interview. And the
questions are great because you
get questions from all over the
place, and you see how people
react and and then we go back
and take their input, and I
don't make the final call, like,
I'll if the team says this
person is the rank the highest,
then we'll go with that person.
And then, you know, I'll
interview them if I think
they're great fit. I may ask
questions or not, but so far, I
haven't said, Oh, the team picks
somebody. And I said, No, it's
always gonna, everything's
worked out. So it's, it's a
really good culture here of a
real team input and transparency
and just be honest with each
other. That's been the big thing
for us, too, to really build
that trust amongst the team. Is
nobody's BS in anybody. It's all
and whatever I tell you is the
truth. I'm not going to give you
blow smoke up your butt. This
is, this is what's happening.
So,
Keith Hawkey: Yeah, I think
you're exactly right. And you
mentioned something that this
sticks out to me is that, no,
these, these are our colleagues.
They're not our family. They're
fundamental, fundamentally
different. And you, I think, I
think for a while, and even
today, I mean, you'll go on
LinkedIn and you'll see
companies advertising. We have
open slots in our family. Why
don't you come join us? There
are different types of
relationships that both can be
positive. I'm curious. You've
been leading IT. TTS, IT teams
for a long time now. I'm always
curious as to what is, what do
you think some of the wisdom,
kind of the older wisdom that
may be may have been lost in
your years of managing IT teams.
And then also, what are some of
the new wisdom that you think
older IT managers might be able
to take advantage of? That's
Grant Walsh: pretty tough. Okay,
so older wisdom that's been
lost. I think there's as I
touched on before, that, not an
IT or not. I mean, honestly, if
you're an IT, you've picked the
wrong career for eight to five,
that's just and I think that's
lack of transparency and honesty
sometimes can bite us. And just
like, listen this role, yeah,
during the time, you're gonna
come at eight, you're gonna go
home at five, you're gonna take
your lunch, do your thing. But
if you're an engineer, if you're
security, forget that nine to
five stuff and stuff you know,
the attackers don't normally hit
nine to five. So that's some of
that old wisdom, just being
honest people, that this is not
that kind of job. And if you
came out of college thinking
that the late nights you did
study, and the late nights you
did writing reports, that still
happens here. I mean, don't
write reports. You don't study.
You'll have a teacher, you have
a test, but every day the test,
and you're going to have some
late nights and things you have
to stick around for. I think new
knowledge, new wisdom, is really
that, I think early in my
career, it's, you know, there
was the lack of, how do I grow?
Was always tough when, before I
became a leader, like, how do I
grow into my next opportunity?
How do I get to that next spot?
I think companies has in generic
these trains are out there, but
nothing specific to the career
path I wanted to have. So I
think in the newer wisdom, for
folks coming out of college, how
do I keep growing? How do we get
to that next role? And they want
it fast. They want to be there.
I started here, and a year
later, I want something else.
Okay, well, let's make sure we
put the training in place to get
you there, but let's also make
sure we're doing number the role
we have today that you're
assigned to do that do its best
before we talk about that role,
let's make sure you excel here.
Before I go talk about the next
role, do that. I think this is,
this is kind of go back to old
wisdom. You know, you're doing
your job and you're training for
Aaron Bock: Yeah, and I think
you could take that. What you
the next role. Your training
typically happens after hours,
and it's been a tough thing to
sell you. You take your training
and see you make sure you can go
to, I think Opkalla does a great
job with some lunch and learns.
We've done a lot of stuff there,
send people to different Azure
trainings and things like that.
That's been great. But if you're
really serious about moving into
that next cloud role, security
role, AI role, whatever it is,
it's going to take some of your
time. We're going to invest, as
an organization, in you who may
pay for it, pay for search,
things like that. But your time
is your time. I can't give you
the time that you need to do
your job then go off to the
training, because we still need
you to do your role, but we're
willing to invest to help you,
support you, talk about it,
create that path, but you got to
give your time, and that's a
hard thing sometimes for folks
to understand, like, well, I
need to, I need Tuesdays off
every week for the next 12
weeks. Do this training. Well,
that just takes me out, you
know, a number of hours I don't
have a good support. And that's
not saying we don't support you,
because we are financially, and
we are, you know,
enthusiastically pushing you
along, but you need to invest
your time. It's a partnership
here in terms of getting you
there. And I think that's some
old wisdom that's hard to sell
to some folks, because, well,
I'm doing this for you, like
you're not really doing it for
me. You may get this role here,
but if we think about long term
for you as the employee, and if
I'm really, I care about you,
that next role may not be here,
and that's okay if you grow out
of what we can offer you, and
your next role somewhere else, I
will give you a recommendation,
because I don't have that
opportunity for you here. So
we're investing in you. Sure it
would help us short term, but
long term is going to help you
in your career.
just said, that's, I think that
was a very great nugget of
advice. You could apply that to
almost any industry too, because
I know at Opkalla, I always tell
people when they're interviewing
or when they're joining the
first 18 months if you put in
the maximum amount of effort,
which does mean after hours
sometimes. And so I can't, I
can't sit here and say you will
be the most successful if you
only work 40 hours. That's up to
you. I can't make you do
anything at night, but if you
want to get the most ahead, you
want to have a fast start, it's
going to take some self
learning, some some work after
hours, some organizing after
hours, whether that's a cert,
whether that's a course you want
to take, whether it's just
understanding what you're doing.
And I think anyone would say
that that like, the the longer
you've been in it, yeah, you can
kind of hack the system, because
you've been doing this forever,
and you can use experience you
have. But if you're new and
you're trying to learn it,
that's how you have to get it.
You just have to put in the
work. And so Grant, I have a
follow up question to that. It's
kind of two parts. So one, first
part is answering, from. Um,
like, if you're if to our
audience members who do
interview, and the second one
is, second part of the question
is to people that are
interviewing. So you mentioned
how you do interviews today,
where your team interviews, and
then you'll do an interview. But
you also, we talked about how
tech is, is changing very fast.
There's new tech, there's new
concepts, there's new
industries, right? And so
culture is important. How do you
like, how do you interview
someone who is possibly, who has
skills in an IT segment that's
maybe newer, that you're not as
familiar with, and you're trying
to validate how well they could
be in that role, balancing,
like, their knowledge with the
culture. Like, how do you weigh
that? Like, what are you trying
to ask? Like, what are you
trying to uncover in that
interview, from your
perspective, to make sure that
one, they can do the role, and
two, they keep the culture that
you have and are a good culture
fit?
Grant Walsh: Yeah, I think
that's, that's a good question.
I think it's one of the things
where you can teach tech skills,
but I can't teach cultural fit,
right? So I'm always going to
lean to cultural fit over tech
skills. So if you can do it for
the most part, for what we know
versus what we don't know, we
can, we can figure out the rest.
I think there's also, without
saying, I'm not going to go in
there blind, we've been able to
leverage partnerships with
whether it be an Opkalla, or
some other, you know, partners
we use that are industry experts
in these areas that we may like
today. We're as we grow, we lean
heavily on partners for certain
areas of expertise. If I want to
shift that internal or not even
get rid of that partner, but
bring somebody in to help us
internally, have some expertise
and have more insightful
conversations with these
partners, because I lack the
internal I can engage them or
have engaged them in the past to
help us do some of the
interviews. Now we're in an
interview with myself and this
other person who doesn't work
here, but is an expert in that
field that we need to hire you
for. So if that person is, yeah,
they are, hey, there's, you
know, our partner told us
they're 75% of where they should
be, but I think our team
interviews them and they're
like, 100% cultural fit. We'll
go. Because if I can find
somebody that fits us
culturally, that's more
important right now than, you
know, finding that tech
expertise. Hey, the perfect tech
expert, because a lot of times
they're so focused on this one
area that they can't do anything
else. And even if I bring you in
for AI or bring you in for cloud
security, you're probably gonna
do other stuff. I mean, we're
now imagine with, you know,
being in Charlotte, we have a
lot of, you know, Fortune 500
companies that have very siloed
folks who do very specific
things. I have a number of
friends that do that, and that's
great for them, but in our org,
where orgs I've been in, you're
gonna have to do a lot of
different things, and that
cultural fit is more important
for us, that you have the
flexibility and willingness to
help out whenever that issue
comes up. And
Aaron Bock: so flip side, you
just kind of hit on it, but to
that person that you that's on
your team or is interviewing, or
they've been the server 16
person for a while, or they've
been the backup person for a
while. How do you besides just
making sure that they fit and
they do what they're supposed to
do, how do you convince them,
slash, help them understand,
like, evolving in their current
role and in their education is
important and and make sure that
they're taking on new roles and
making sure they're taking on
new certifications, etc, so that
they don't get left behind
because the tech passes them by.
How do you coach that? Have you?
Maybe there's an example of
someone that you talked to for,
you know, with a for about a
year, and then all of a sudden
it kind of hit them, and they
they started realizing they
needed to do it. Share an
example.
Grant Walsh: Yeah, I think
that's that happens. So we do,
you know, when I first started
here, I didn't have the
management team I have, far as
you know, kind of a tiered
option between infrastructure,
operations, security, so a lot
of the folks reporting directly
to me. And as we grew the team,
we built out a management team.
But even in the one on ones I
had with all the engineers or
the the operations folks that
they're those meetings really
focused on. Not only okay, what
are the big issues you're
dealing with each week, but what
are you doing week to week to
help improve yourselves, make
yourself better. Where do you
want to be so that that's
important to make sure on those
weekly one on ones, or even now,
with my managers making yourself
you're making sure you're ready
for that next opportunity,
whatever presents, because you
really don't know when it's
going to show up. I mean, sure I
can plan to grow this role, but
lot of times there are
unexpected changes that may pop
up a new opportunity. I think
we've had some folks along the
way, and even here at Flow
Control Group that we've coached
for a while, hey, you've got to
get ready for this. You know, we
are seeing a shift to more of
the cloud. I talked about cloud
a couple times today, but you
know, we're seeing more that
shift off the on prem, to the
cloud. And we have a partner
now, and we understand it to an
extent. But you know, Azure AWS
is different than your legacy on
prem day. So we have a number of
engineers. Somebody's got to
step up and want to take Azure.
I can't force you to. I can't, I
can't push you into it, because
you're not going to do it.
Because you're not going to do
it. You're not going to want to
do it. I need somebody that
wants to excel. And we had an
individual that, you know, is
managing some legacy technology
that, hey, we're going to
outsource this technology to a
partner that does it on the
regular, whether it be a phone
system or firewalls or the case
may be, that's going away. So
when that goes away, what are
you going to do? Because that's
been. Your primary role for a
long period of time, what are
you going to do? Because at that
point, what are you adding to
the team? If that's all you're
working on so and finally, it
was an aha moment. Oh, that's
true. And think about that. So
now they're pivoting to taking
the training, putting a process
together that day, in six
months, we should be here 12
months. We should hear making
sure that the manager and that
the manager and that person is
working together, that their
progress is moving on. Hey, we
are again, full support, paying
for search, paying for training,
making sure that you're involved
with the projects that are with
that partner today, so you
energy. Can get some exposure,
so you can see how things are
done, you can ask questions. So
again, just really investing in
that person to help them grow,
and then just keeping that
pulse, making a point every
week, on your one on ones, or
your bi weekly one on ones,
where are you at? How are we
moving? Because you know, if you
don't do it on a regular basis,
then it slips, and next thing
you know, it's been a month, two
months gone, and that's for this
individual. Hey, man, I've been
here two years. We talked about
this a year and a half ago, and
you're finally getting the
point. Imagine where you would
be if you started a year and a
half ago, when we first told you
that this is somewhere you
should go. So it's just again,
it's, we've had that happen.
It's sometimes, I think people,
it's a thing too, where
everybody's got busy lives
outside of work, and they have
to want to invest that time as
an employee. And then sometimes
you got to paint it, pick the
picture, form this solution that
you're doing today is going
away, or you're all this work
that you do is going away. What
are you going to do? And then
sometimes it's like, Oh, crap,
yeah, I needed to get that. I
need to get moving on that I
need to get moving on that so I
don't get kind of left behind.
Keith Hawkey: That's such a
unique aspect of of being in
technology, especially today,
especially over the last 10
years, because you're right,
like the job that you've trained
for and the job that you're
doing. I mean that that
technology could be supplemented
by a partner in six months or a
year, and now you no longer have
to manage it. And then you have
to find either a new technology
to manage, or you have to move
into leadership, or you have to
find another usefulness of your
time, which is certainly unique
to IT and unique to technology,
just by the nature of how the
market is moving, and how there
are more and more companies that
are able to offer automations
and they're able to offer
services that can do the job
better than one individual at a
particular company. How do you
like how many, how many people
have you interviewed in your
life? How many candidates you
think a lot of number on it.
Lot,
Grant Walsh: hundreds, across
the career hundreds, yeah, at
least across all the companies
I've been at. Yeah, 500 Okay,
okay. I will say the majority of
my career is building teams like
it's coming in with either a
you're assessing and rebuilding,
or you have nothing. And hey,
you get to build from scratch.
And that's why, why I came to
Flow Control. So you come there,
you think about that, all those
different opportunities I've had
to build teams in every role,
you're interviewing 10 people,
or whatever it is, it's a lot of
people
Keith Hawkey: In the interview
process. How do you convey this
message? Because this is just
almost as if, hey, we're
interviewing you for this job.
But how do you convey the
message that there may be a
chance that you might not be
doing this in a year's time. And
we also need to be thinking
about culturally. We need
dynamic employees that that that
want to grow and develop and
want to chase the challenge,
chase the next technology, chase
those cloud opportunities. What
are some of the ways that you're
able to kind of filter the
candidate pool. Convey this in
an interview, I'm curious about
how that conversation goes.
Grant Walsh: We always listen
for, you know, in most
candidates, I ask, you know,
even when I'm in there, sure I
took this this role, what's my
path to the VP role? What's my
path through the CISO role?
What's my path here to where I
want to be? Like, I'm asking the
VP of HR, I'm asking them who,
whoever my manager would be at
the time, who were, you know,
the CFO that I interviewed with,
what's the path there? So we're
listening for those kind of
questions too from our
candidates. Like we say one of
the biggest things I feel an
interviewing process like one of
track of coach people on is
like, when it's time to ask
questions, ask questions. Don't
say, I have nothing. You have
nothing. You literally, you have
nothing. To ask us, because one
of the questions should be
questions should be, hey, I know
I'm higher being higher for this
role, and I want to learn this
role, and I want to do it great,
but the next role, what do you
guys do for that? Like, that's
not a question that I know
you're not interested in
growing, and maybe you're just
nervous, but then you're not
prepared. So it goes both ways.
So we're looking for those types
of that feedback, because in our
interviews that they're not.
It's not a stuffy area. You're
not sitting across at a table
all by yourself with like five
people there just firing
questions off. It is a
conversational thing. We try to
joke. You'll see the culture in
our team when the interview
happens. So we're looking for
that. I mean, for me, I I
cannot. I say it. We want to
grow people. And I say that in
an effort to try to get that
back and forth. And it really
comes down to the candidate
we're listing for certain key
things to say we're looking for
them to, you know, where they
want to go. And I'll give an
example too, on the security
side. Because, you know,
security is a very niche or
specialized area. And just like
you know, if you want to have
hired a Salesforce admin, or you
hired cloud security, or just
security in general, try. To
find the right people who have
the actual experience, not just
book experience, but, like,
hands on. I've been in the
trenches to fight, you know, the
attackers and people coming in.
I've done this, and I've seen
this, not the ones that just go
off and play with flipper zero
or, Hey, I've, you know, watched
this podcast. Cool. But what are
you doing? And how are you
growing? Because security is
evolving rapidly. You know, the
attackers are getting better and
better. And better. The use of
AI is getting better and better.
So what are you doing? So if
we're not hearing that, if
you're not already investing
your own time, and that you
haven't set up Cali at home and
tried to hack this or hack that,
or you haven't done some basic
stuff, then it's like they're
not interested in growing. You
just want you got you went to
school, got your degree, now you
want the money, but you're not
really want to grow. You feel
like it's done and it's not
done. If you got an it, it's not
done. Like, if there's just,
should be more of that in the in
the interview. And we're trying
to listen for those keys and
like, and we're not going to
come out and say, Tell us
exactly what you're doing at
home. We're just listening like,
hey, what do you what are things
you've kind of got into? What
have you tried on your own? And,
oh, this is my first interview
out of college. Okay, cool. What
have you done? And like, you
get, there's so many free, free
opportunities to build your own
virtual environments, set up
things on your own, try to hack
things, set up Active Directory
in your own. You can do this on
your own. That's what we're
looking for, because that means
you're willing to take your
time, invest in yourself, and
then we can come along there,
and we can kind of, you know,
boost that too, by paying for
search, paying put you around
the right people, get you in the
right in front of the right
tools and solutions. I mean, all
the solutions we have today on
the security side, offer
training. Now, you can become an
expert on trainings, but if
you're again, if you're not
doing that on your own, what am
I to think that you're actually
going to change that? When you
join our organization, you're
just going to do your job here
and then go home, and then
tomorrow, come back in and start
over again. That's gonna be a
slow progress forward a year
from now, you'd be like, when do
I get to move up? But you
haven't done anything in the
last year, other than do your
job, which is great, but you
kind of do your job and then
figure out how you get that next
step on your own. So you
Aaron Bock: should, you said
you're you've throughout your
career, you've been fortunate
enough to be able to build
teams. So interview a lot of
candidates, bring them on. Stand
up teams. Take, let's take the
IT leader that may be listening
to this, or who is struggling to
create a great culture. So
either they realize that their
culture is not as good as it
could be, or they're newer to an
organization where the culture
may be lacking for whatever
reason. What advice would you
give to someone that doesn't get
to just go hire a whole team of
people on how to create a better
culture in IT and create the,
you know, the motivation to go
learn things on your own, and
the motivation to help out your
teammates. How would you do it?
Or what advice would you give
that person?
Grant Walsh: So I think when
you're building a team, or you
have trying to cultural change
is you don't want to be a an
office leader, so I'm staying in
my office, and I'm just kind of
barking commands from the office
that will kill culture in a
heartbeat. You have to be able
to get out of your office, get
in the trenches with the folks,
be there, side by side. And
you're trying to first building
things out until you have the
expertise that you want or
you're looking for, and you have
those leaders that you need,
you've got to be out there to be
one of them. And when you mess
up, you got to say, Oh, I messed
up. You know, we're all doing
this together. Things happen
fast. You react fast. Sometimes
you make mistakes because you
react fast. But being honest and
transparent and people is a big
boost. I think, you know a lot,
one of my roles we that I was in
in South Florida, we went
through with a team was called
The Five Dysfunctions of the
team, and that, you know that
that bottom base is trust, like
having trust, you know they have
to have trust in you, that
you're looking up for them, and
vice versa, that you know
they've got your back, you know,
making sure that as a leader, I
think one of the biggest things
the leader Holly is, is running
that buffer, providing that
cover for your team, because the
business is looking for somebody
when something goes wrong, to
blame and point at. Let it be
the leader. Don't. Let don't
ever give a name. Hey, this
person screwed up. No, no, no,
no, you're the leader. You took
the money, you took the title.
You're going to take the
beating. You know that's your
job, to take the blame, and then
you talk it over the team. Hey
guys, we messed up here. How can
we make sure it doesn't happen?
And while you're not saying,
Hey, I covered for you, if you
say that, then you've you've
blown it up too, but it's really
we've messed up. How can we do
better? You know, what can we do
to make sure it doesn't happen
in the future? Listen, provide
that back and forth. The team
picks up on that. Individuals
pick up on the fact that as a
leader, you're doing your job to
run that cover and to run the
kind of shield, if you will,
from the team. You know, that's
something I've always tried to
do, is make sure I can run cover
for the team. Allow them to do
what they need to do. These are
experts in what they do. Go do
go do what you need to do, and
I'll run the cover for you. And
just that, that'll build culture
really fast. Build that trust
really fast. I think another
thing for leadership is allow
people to talk. Hey man, I'm
having concerns with this or
that. This tool we bought, or
this tool we're looking at, I
don't agree. I don't think it's
right one. Sure. Why don't you
think it's the right one? Or why
don't you think this is, is the
right, not the right solution?
Let's talk about that. Let's
have that open door and do so in
a respectful manner, and have
that back and forth. And at the
end of day, if it's something
that you know, as a leader you
have to make go with, be able to
explain, hey, we chose to go
this route because of A, B and
C. I know you had concerns, but
this is why we went that route.
Sometimes, in those roles, they
don't. See all the details of
the financials, or whatever the
case may be about solution, or
whatever it may be that you have
to kind of explain that to them
and be transparent about it. So
I think transparency and trust
are huge in building that
culture and just again, getting
out there. Don't be copy behind
a door in an office, and just
barking commands is not a place
to be that'll kill culture
really fast,
Aaron Bock: trust, transparency,
speed. Those are our three core
values at Opkalla. I didn't tell
that to Grant before this, but
he just named two of them. I
think from my perspective, you
know, again, I see different
issues than you all do, but
communication, like the
communication to your team, and
I always say, like, I have a
huge hole in the middle of my
chest from falling on swords for
people, because sometimes we do
mess up, and sometimes we just
have to own it, and then
internally figure out, like,
what went wrong? How did it go
wrong? But like, we are all
humans, and I think deep down,
everyone understands that. And
so what people crave the most
from, whether it's their team,
their partners, their you know,
spouses, whatever it is in life
you want someone to that you
know has your back, and you can
communicate with and then when
things go well, they can
communicate. When things go
wrong, you also can communicate.
So I would, I would second that,
and I would say that 95% of the
issues that I deal with as a
leader is related to
communication and not setting
expectations, and just not
following through. And so, you
know, I think, like you said
running, you called it running
cover, I would say falling on
swords sometimes, like whatever
it is. But Grant, as we close
out, I got one, one for one last
question. Then Keith will, will
close this out. But we're in
2025, you know, you've, you've
you've been doing this 20 years.
What trends in it excite you, or
what trends in in IT leadership,
or leadership in general, like,
what do you see coming for
leaders that will be leaders the
next five years, or continue to
be leaders the next five years
that you care about, you're
concerned about, like, any, any
thoughts on that. I think
because,
Grant Walsh: you know, we talked
about, keep talking about things
evolving so fast, I think you'll
have a there's a lot of leaders
in this that been doing it for a
while, but you're gonna have
leaders grow quickly that don't
have the experience, and that of
there's things that you can't
learn to book. And I think a lot
of things in terms of dealing
with people, leadership is so
much about people. That's about
technology. You can learn all
the technology stuff you want to
and I think, you know, Keith
mentioned earlier, like people
talking about, do they grow into
a leadership role, or do they go
into another technology role?
There's a fine line of the
people that need to go into
leadership that don't. There are
a lot of good technology people
that should never go into
leadership, because managing
people is vastly different than
managing technology. Whether you
can be a great technology
leader, know the technology No,
no systems and processes that
are great, but that experience
of leading people, sure, you can
go leadership courses, you can
go to different trainings on how
to lead people, read books, do a
lot of, you know, quotes, all
that fun stuff, but there's
stuff you just can't learn until
you've led teams. And I think
that's something that you know,
from a concerning standpoint, as
we grow fast, you're going to
have all these leaders pop up,
so you have to turn into that.
There's a lot of learning, and I
think we'll catch up, you know,
over time here with that. But
there's a lot of new folks who
jump into it because it is so
hot. From a cybersecurity
standpoint, cloud standpoint,
there are a lot of folks coming
out that want to move up fast,
and naturally, companies will
see that progress and say you've
done really good in this role.
Is throw you into leadership
role. There gonna be a lot of
burn out there. It just happens,
you know, naturally it happened
years ago. It'll happen again
here too, with the change in and
cloud adoption and
cybersecurity. But, I mean, I
think there's still a lot of
exciting, lot of exciting things
when it comes to I didn't say AI
was cool, because you got to say
AI at least three times in every
chat. But even on leadership
side of me. I talked to Gemini,
we talked to Chat GPT, we talked
to Copilot. I mean, that and
that, the advancement in the
this, you know, the the way to
fill in the skills gap, if you
don't have it, but you can ask
it and get an answer, and you
have a way to validate That's
truth. I mean, you can grow over
your technology skill set. Now,
I wouldn't lean on it 100%
because if you ever get an
interview, you'll be called out
for it. We're going to know
exactly if you know what you're
talking about. But there's a lot
of exciting things going on on
the AI side, but it's also a lot
of concerns there too. So
there's, it's just a lot, I
think there, again, there's a
lot of growth opportunity.
People who grab, grab onto AI,
grab onto cyber security and run
with it, will get promoted into
roles that just don't have the
experience yet with people. But
you know, I didn't have the
experience of people when I
first started, either. You just
got to learn it and figure it
out. But it's a fun challenge to
have.
Keith Hawkey: Well, Grant out
those very insightful we're
going to wrap up here. But
before we do, we always like to
ask one question to everyone.
I'm going to paint the scene
here. Let's say Grant you are in
Davos, Switzerland, and you are
presenting in front of 1000 of
the most powerful CIOs in the
world. If you were going to
going to convey one message that
you think is missing at the top
end of leadership and global CIO
ism, what would it be? One
Grant Walsh: message? This for
the global CIO ism
Aaron Bock: Keith just made up a
conference for CIOs in Davos.
Says this as if they need
another conference. It
Grant Walsh: sounds cliche, but
be, be a CIO of the people like
to understand your team. Be part
of that team. I think that's,
you know, we had a VP here for a
while. You know, he just left
for the CIO opportunity, but he
was the VP of the people the
team. He talked to the team on
the regular. He was here part of
the team. I tried again to do
that on the regular. It's always
when you're a service desk
person or you're a new engineer,
sometimes you feel weird about
talking to a VIP or CIO. He
should be break those walls
down. That's the biggest thing.
Because again, back to where we
talked about, you know, the team
can't trust you because they
can't see, because you're often,
it's never, never land, because
you're the chief information
officer, then it's hard to
follow. It's hard to get behind
that and follow, because you're
just, you're that, you know the
distance figure. But that would,
that would be the one thing be a
CIO or leader of the people that
you're you're leading, making
sure you're transparent, honest
people where you can obviously
there's some things, there's
some discussions that can't be
had, but just being transparent,
honest, and be part of the
people and play lots of golf.
Keith Hawkey: Play lots of golf,
I think you're gonna get a
standing ovation for that. That
latter part there at the
network, I want to wrap up here.
Really appreciate you spending
some time with us this morning.
Grant, it's always great to have
insights from Dynamic IT
leaders. We consider you a very
impact heavy IT leader. So we
really appreciate your time this
morning. We know you have a lot
going on and in your traditional
role, and we appreciate everyone
that is tuned in to the IT
Matters podcast for support
assessing your technology needs,
book a call with one of our
Technology Advisors at
opkalla.com. If you found this
episode helpful, please share
the podcast with someone who
would get value from it and
leave a review on Apple podcast
or rate us on Spotify. Thank
you, and we'll catch you next
time.
Aaron Bock: Thank you for
listening, and we appreciate you
tuning into the IT Matters
podcast for support assessing
your technology needs, book a
call with one of our Technology
Advisors at opkalla.com. That's
opkalla.com. If you found this
episode helpful, please share
the podcast with someone who
would get value from it and
leave us a review on Apple
podcasts or on Spotify. Thank
you for listening and have a
great day.