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Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
You feeling about trying to Great. Yeah. Okay. I will count you in. We are live in three, two, one.
Speaker 1:Hey, Debrief listeners. It is only me today. Nobody wanted to join me today. That's not true. We had some scheduling conflicts.
Speaker 1:But, man, I'm super glad to answer your guys' questions. Remember, the show is only as good as your questions. And here's the thing that I love about this show. I actually learn things through your questions. So we're gonna start with Peter in Minifee.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Peter. Appreciate you. Hopefully, you go to our Sandals Church Minifee campus. It's amazing out there. Be praying for buildings.
Speaker 1:We need to expand, that campus with some buildings. And so, we need cooperation from local authorities. This is the unplugged version. There we go. Peter, how do I find out which gifts or gifts gift or gifts the Holy Spirit has blessed me with?
Speaker 1:So I'm assuming, Peter, that this question probably came in before last week's message, which I talked specifically about gifts, but let me reframe this, in three ways. So if we look at last week's sermon, I'm not exactly sure what date this podcast will come out, but this is point two. Really, I didn't have points, but for God's gifts, what what do I need to do to discover this? Really three things. I gotta ask the Holy Spirit to guide me to my gift.
Speaker 1:So the first thing that I would say, Peter, is just in your quiet time alone, just say, god, I I feel really ungifted. I'm not sure what my gifts are. I'm not sure what my talent is. Holy Spirit, would you point me in the right direction? And so I think this is a prayer that the Holy Spirit will answer.
Speaker 1:It needs to be a humble prayer. It needs to be a humble request. And, again, this is my complaint with many Pentecostals, because what they do is they point everybody, and and then not only point, but pressure people to the gift of tongues and or interpretation of tongues, and that is one of many gifts that the Holy Spirit could give, but it's not the only give... Gift, and it's not the gift that everybody gets. So what I would just say is, Holy Spirit, what gift do you have for me?
Speaker 1:And then just be open. And the reason I say that is I probably spent five years when I was first pastoring, praying for the gift of tongues. I just kept praying for it. I kept asking for it. I remember in my car crying out to God, God, why why are you not giving this to me when you've given it to so many of my friends, so many people I know?
Speaker 1:And it really became a source of guilt and shame for me, and that's what we want to avoid. We wanna celebrate and be excited about the gifts that God has given us. And so here's the thing, Peter, I just wanna remind you. We have to trust, this is the first point on the outline, that there's a gift the Holy Spirit has for me. So it may not be the gift that I think or I thought, but I need to trust that God has a gift for me.
Speaker 1:And so this will really unlike... Unlock community groups, discipleship group, serving on teams. You'll learn to speak up. You'll learn to share your thoughts, and this isn't sharing your political thoughts or sharing, you know, your your favorite, you know, ideas from the, you know, from the sports weekend or whatever, but this is really about what God is doing and what God is saying in the church and saying, God, how do I serve? How do I give?
Speaker 1:You know, what is it that I do? So I would start with asking the Holy Spirit. And, I I shared this at the the last point that we're gonna cover, which is study God's word and open my heart, because remember, sometimes, Peter, the point is the journey. So God not only wants to give you this gift, but he wants to take you on this journey to unlock this gift. I mean, sometimes, you know, people with a speaking gift or a preaching gift, I've seen this many times, they get on stage too soon, and so they're not humble enough.
Speaker 1:They're not mature enough. They're not ready enough. And I I really think this is why we see a lot of pastors, we see a lot of worship leaders, a famous Christian bands and Christian musicians fall because their talent far out... Outs... Exceeds their character, and so they get ahead of themselves.
Speaker 1:And so be patient with the journey and trust that... You know, one of my favorite verses in the Bible is humble thyself in the sight of the Lord, and he will lift you up, basically, in due time. So you just gotta keep trusting him. You gotta keep waiting on him, and just say, okay, God, when you're ready, my talent and my opportunity are gonna meet. So ask the Holy Spirit for that.
Speaker 1:Next, I wanna encourage you. Ask for input and prayer from trusted leaders. So if we look at first Timothy four fourteen, it says, do not neglect the spiritual gift you received through the prophecy spoken over you when the elders of the church laid their hands on you. So throughout my life, people have spoken prophetically over me. Now I grew up in a Baptist church, so they wouldn't have said, the Lord gave me a prophecy.
Speaker 1:So that's a much healthier understanding in charismatic churches or Pentecostal churches. They would have used the word prophecy. So I was in a Baptist church, so they just said, God's going to do great things over you, or I foresee incredible things in your future. And the first time that ever happened for me, I was actually preaching in a church in Porterville, and my sermon wasn't very good, but the piano player got up and he said, one day, you will preach in front of thousands. And I I couldn't hardly believe that because I was scared to death to preach in front of 10.
Speaker 1:Another time, I spoke at California Baptist University in the chapel there when I was a student, I think it was my second sermon ever, and I remember one of the faculty at Cal Baptist came up to me afterwards, and he said, I don't know what happens to you when you start preaching. He said, but you change. You become a different person. And he didn't mean that negatively. What he meant was there's an anointing on your life.
Speaker 1:And so he was saying, I'm sensing a gear shift in your life when you operate in this way. And so that's what I would look for with people, is say, would you pray over me? Would you say, what do you see in me? What have you experienced in me? You know, like, what...
Speaker 1:What's my gifting? And so I think it's so important that we involve others. And and when we look in the Bible, it specifically says that Peter received his... Excuse me. Timothy received his gift when Paul and the elders laid hands on him.
Speaker 1:So I've actually had this when I was ordained in the Baptist church. You go through this interview. They ask you all kinds of theological questions. It's extraordinarily tasking. I was very nervous.
Speaker 1:It lasted several hours. I wasn't sure whether or not I passed, but I got through, and then we set up my ordination service. And at my ordination, other pastors laid hands over me and prayed over me. And one specific gift I believe I received at my ordination was when a pastor, he was in his late seventies, he would end up passing away a year or two after this. He said, I've run my race.
Speaker 1:Run yours. He said, run with endurance, and do not fail or fall. And I believe in that moment, I was given the spirit of endurance. I would not have described myself as a young man as a man of grit. I oftentimes avoided things that were difficult.
Speaker 1:I chose comfort over calling all the time. But in that moment, something happened in me. God gave me something, and it was the ability to remain steadfast, and that is the ability to hang on no matter what. So that's why I'm married today. My marriage has not always been easy, but God has given me a spirit of steadfastness.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to stay in this marriage even if it's uncomfortable. How have I been at Sandals Church for thirty years? I'm able to stay here even when people leave, people get upset at me. I mean, people have lots of opinions about me in this city that I've lived in for thirty years. I can't run from my problems.
Speaker 1:I I just have to endure them. Some of them I created, some of them, you know, are are just unfair and untrue. But I've been able to stay, because I believe at that moment, when he laid hands on me, I got a spirit of steadfastness. Now again, that's not gonna be on any spiritual gifts test. Maybe they would put it under faithfulness, but I would not say that I'm a person of extraordinary faith.
Speaker 1:There are people in our church that have that gift, and I lean on them heavily, cause I tend to be like, we're not gonna make it. That's... My personality is the plane's going down. My personality is not, we're gonna get there. So God has enabled me to stay, listen to this, in spite of my fear.
Speaker 1:He's enabled me to last in spite of my pain. And marriage has been painful. I have a great wife. She's incredible. But marriages are difficult.
Speaker 1:Staying with one person for three decades is a challenging thing. Someone who's different from you, has a different perspective, different gender, raised in a different home, different values than what I was raised in, and then our personalities are just so different. So being able to stay, that's something that I received. And so I would just say, go forward if you're at the Menifee campus, pastor Rocky's an amazing pastor, and just say, hey, would you and the leaders pray over me? Would you pray over me that I would receive my spiritual gift?
Speaker 1:And then lastly, we we talked about this, is study God's word and have an open... And open my heart. And so just say, God, you know, what is this for me? And so the places that we talked about going is Romans chapter 12 verses three through eight. I actually read, I actually opened the message last week on spiritual gifts with that passage.
Speaker 1:Really, first Corinthians chapter 12, chapter 13, and chapter 14. And here's the thing that you need to understand. Those chapters are not written simply to explain spiritual gifts. They're they're written to really kind of go after some people that are misusing spiritual gifts. So tongues is a problem.
Speaker 1:They don't love each other. Sin is rampant in the church. There are deep problems in the church. So the Corinthian church is supernaturally gifted, but they were also incredibly sinful. So really what I want you to get out of that is if you don't love God, if you're not learning to love others, and you don't love yourself, you're missing the point of the gifts.
Speaker 1:So I would say the gifts are the ability. Love is the gas or the fuel that helps you use those gifts. And so if you run out of gas, you run out of love, your gifts are not going to do and have the intended effect. Next, Ephesians four seven through 13. This is the famous passage.
Speaker 1:God... Christ gave gifts to the church. First apostles, which is the missionary gift. We have people in our church who have gone all over the world, telling people about Jesus in places where they've never even heard the name. We have evangelists.
Speaker 1:I talked about pastor Greg Laurie. I'm so grateful for him and his ministry. We have pastors and teachers and then prophets. And so those are are not just gifts, but those are people. And then finally, first Peter four ten eleven, which basically says, every one of you has a gift.
Speaker 1:And so what's important there is, Peter, it's past tense. You have a gift. Right? It's already there. You just need to unlock it.
Speaker 1:So what I would say is, god knows who you are. God knows how he made you. So when I was a kid, I always got in trouble. Every single report card from first grade, probably, I don't know when they quit writing, you know, you would sit down with a teacher, and they would kinda talk about you, but every single parent teacher conference, same thing. Talks too much.
Speaker 1:Talks too much. Talks much. Talks too much. Talks too much. Well, God knew that he was gonna use me to talk, and so when I was younger, I talked too much, and now I've had to learn to just talk appropriately, which my wife would say is still a struggle, but God put that in me from an early age.
Speaker 1:And so... And you'll see this oftentimes. Some gifts are easier to spot. Leadership is easy to spot. Right?
Speaker 1:You can tell who everyone is following. Prophecy is is easier to spot. Someone who stands up and and boldly speaks truth. So I remember I went to... In 1985, we got extra credit in social studies class to go to Earth Day, which is basically back in the eighties.
Speaker 1:I didn't know, but it was a liberal woke holiday where you got school credit to go to this event. And so I went to UC Davis, and this guy was standing up, a professor talking about, we don't know who made the heavens and the earth, but science helps us explain it, and yada yada. He went all through this. I was 15 years old. I stood up and shouted, god made it.
Speaker 1:Like, that's what I said, and my dad was so embarrassed. But I didn't know at an early age, I was willing to stand up and speak for god regardless of the consequence. And I got in trouble from my teacher at school, but it was worth it. So I would encourage you to do those three things. So pray and ask the holy spirit, seek counsel and input from leaders in your in your church, specifically through the laying on of hands.
Speaker 1:That's important. And then study god's word and have an open heart. Because sometimes we have passions. Like, a lot of people are passionate about music, but their gifting is not music. We have a guy at our Hunter Park campus.
Speaker 1:His name is Theo. He's on our kids ministry team. He's fantastic. Theo can pick up any instrument and learn it on his own. It drives me crazy.
Speaker 1:So normally, he plays keys, he'll play guitar or bass, and the other day at our campus, this is in front of thousands of people, he's playing the drums. I said, I didn't know you could play the drums, and he said, I couldn't. I just learned this week. He just... He did did that on his own.
Speaker 1:So that is that is just an anointing from God, and he just has that gift. So just be careful. Sometimes, you know, your passions and your gifting are not in alignment. Okay. Next question.
Speaker 1:That was awesome. Thank you, Peter. I'll be praying for you. Adriana from Riverside. We loved your sermon on echoing the holy spirit.
Speaker 1:It sparked my thoughts to ask you the following question. If you were baptized as a child in the Catholic faith, doesn't that count as already being baptized? Is it necessary to be baptized in the Christian faith? So, Adriana, let me say this. I believe Catholics are Christian.
Speaker 1:We were all Catholic at one time. There have been schisms in the church. The Orthodox split off first, and then eventually the Protestants, because the word Catholic means universal. So they they would say they're the one true church that's that's not changed since Christ laid his hands on Peter and said, you you're the first pope. I disagree with that.
Speaker 1:I don't think Peter was the first pope, but that's their point. I think they've changed many times, and you can just go through history where popes disagree with one another, and they supposedly speak infallibly, but they say different and separate things. So I think Catholics are... Can be born again. I think they can love Jesus.
Speaker 1:I pray for revival in the Catholic church. I I pray for just a movement of God with them. We we need them in order to to save the world. So so let me say that. I'm not anti Catholic, but I am pro bible, and that's really really important.
Speaker 1:We don't wanna do anything in our church that is not explicitly stated in the bible. So your question is, if you were baptized as a child in the Catholic faith, does that count? Well, it's called infant baptism, and there are all kinds of different ideas on this. And, really, it doesn't come about until about the fourth century where they start dunking kids, because the assumption is if you die in childbirth, right, and you weren't baptized, are you saved? So the Orthodox Church believes in regenerative baptism, so that's when you're baptized, like, you're actually saved.
Speaker 1:The Catholic church believes that, and then you confirm that later, so you confirm back what your parents did for you. What we hold to as Baptists is that we we believe in what's called believer's baptism. So we come from a movement that literally... Our name was against baptism, and what it meant is we we we rejected this idea of infant baptism, and we were for a believer's baptism, which was oftentimes a secondary baptism. And the idea here is that nowhere in the bible do we see people being baptized until they repent and believe on the lord Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:So that's where this idea of believer's baptism comes from. No one can do it for you. There is this weird passage in Corinthians where they're baptizing for the dead. Paul doesn't explain that. He just basically, you know, is like, hey.
Speaker 1:If there's no resurrection, why are we doing this? And so he's trying to attack this idea that... This misunderstanding about resurrection, so he uses this weird statement that we really don't understand, and it's not mentioned anywhere else in the Bible. But it's why Mormons baptize for the dead. So they take that passage, and they do that for their relatives who died in sin or weren't Mormon or for the world, and so they think they can do that.
Speaker 1:So that's... You know, Mormonism is is not Christian. Good people love them, but I would say that they're a cult. Joseph Smith is a false prophet, so, I would not put Catholics in the same thing. So what I would say is this.
Speaker 1:In the Bible, it specifically shows you repent, you believe, and you are baptized. Now there are some passages where it says their whole household was saved. Their whole household was baptized. So the assumption there is, right, that there must have been infants. That may or may not be true.
Speaker 1:We just don't know. That's reading into the text things that the text don't tell us. The normative behavior is to come to faith by repenting of your sin, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, and being baptized. We see that all through the Bible. So what I would encourage you to do is just ask the Holy Spirit, Adriana, and see what he says.
Speaker 1:Say, hey. I I grew up, and I was baptized as an infant. Do you... Or, you know, are you calling me to be baptized as a believer? And so what I would say is, did you come to faith in Jesus at Sandals Church?
Speaker 1:Did you repent and believe at Sandals Church? And if you did that, I would encourage you to be baptized at Sandals Church. But I just don't think baptism saves us, so it's not a dye in the wool issue for me. It's an open handed issue for me. I believe that you should be baptized.
Speaker 1:I have some friends who are Lutheran in the church, and they really hold on to and believe in their their their, infant baptism, and I just kinda leave that up to God. Because, if we're saved by the things we're do... The things we do, then none of us are saved. I just kinda trust God with that. So I would encourage you to be baptized.
Speaker 1:I am a Baptist. Right? So baptism is important, and it's the normative pattern. Repent, believe, be baptized. Great question.
Speaker 1:Alright. Jonathan, Reno Valley. Thank you for your message on anxiety. Man, you are welcome. Anxiety is something I have struggled with for several years.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, brother. Man, I've been there. Over the past four months, I started therapy. I have realized that I struggled to fully accept god's mercy. It is not so much a fear of losing my salvation, but a fear of leaving a legacy that honors God and not hearing, well done, good and faithful servant.
Speaker 1:As someone in your position, have you ever wrestled with a similar fear? If so, how have you found healing? Well, Jonathan, what I would say is so much anxiety comes from a lack of trust in God. So we have anxiety and fear about dying because we don't trust that Jesus will raise us from the dead. Right?
Speaker 1:So that was the first fear, the fear of dying. And that was... I I didn't have a fear of flying, but it was of dying, dying in a crash. And so I think fear of death is normal. I think faith in the face of death is abnormal.
Speaker 1:That's something that God gives us, this strength and this power, and and I hope I die well. You know? It's it's easy for me now because it's academic, because I'm not currently facing a terminal disease, but I'm hoping that when that happens, when that when that time comes for me, that I will thank god for the life I've lived and the people I've been able to love, and I will face death with faith. And that's just something for me. You say, I haven't...
Speaker 1:I I have realized that I struggled to fully accept god's mercy. Man, I would just say that some of us as Christians have performance anxiety, and so we just think, you know, I've gotta be this varsity level Christian. I've gotta get it all right. And what I would encourage you to do is, you said, I've I've struggled to fully accept God's mercy. You need people in your life at Sandals with the spiritual gift of mercy to remind you that it's not about you, that it's about God.
Speaker 1:So if we go back to the verse where Sandals Church comes from, it comes from, Romans chapter 10 verses, nine through 15. Whoever calls upon the name of the lord will be saved. How can they call on the one in whom they have not heard? How can they hear unless someone preaches? How can someone preach unless they are sent?
Speaker 1:As it is said, how beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news. That's the verse where I got Sandals Church from, this idea that our feet would be beautiful when we bring good news. And the good news is, Jonathan, that you are saved not because of what you've done, but because of what Christ did. And if you can just embrace that, and again, it's not about arrogance. It's about confidence.
Speaker 1:Confidence in what Christ did, confidence in his love, confidence in his mercy, and just understanding a lot of us that grew up in church were scared into following Jesus. Really, the only domination that does that anymore is the Jehovah Witnesses. They have all the scary pamphlets about end times and dragons and scary stuff, but evangelicals used to do that too in the seventies. And so what I would do is really focus on God's love and God's faithfulness. Meditate on John three sixteen, for God so loved the world.
Speaker 1:You know, meditate on that. And so the passage that you're talking about, you know, the well done, good and faithful servant is what we all wanna hear. And the idea there is, right, don't bury your treasure in a field, but utilize it, multiply it. The gospel is opposed to earning your salvation. It is not opposed to effort.
Speaker 1:The apostle Paul says, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. We we wanna work it out. We wanna trust god, but we also wanna work for god. There's so many passage of... Passages of scripture where Paul says, this is what I do.
Speaker 1:I work so hard day and night toiling to try to win as many people for Christ. And so our effort really is not about our salvation and our standing with God. Our effort is in sharing the faith and growing the church and growing the kingdom and helping God save as many souls as possible. So I think that's really where our effort comes in. We all fail.
Speaker 1:We all sin. I have wrestled with this early on. Think I've shared this story in the debrief. I can't remember, but I I I really, really sinned. I messed up after I'd given my life to Christ.
Speaker 1:I went forward at Harvest Christian Fellowship, and I remember I sinned. I fell back into sin. And I... Have I shared this on the Debrief? And I was in my car.
Speaker 1:I was really depressed, and I said, I'm I said, I'm Judas. And what I meant by that is there's no hope for me. God can't save me. Because if you know the story, Judas hung himself on a tree out of guilt and shame. And I heard the holy spirit say, no.
Speaker 1:No. No. You're Peter. And so I fell, but god picked me up. And if you go back and you look, Jonathan, at Jesus' conversations with Peter Peter, he says, after you fall, come back and restore your brothers.
Speaker 1:So Jesus knew that Peter was gonna fail, but he said, come back. You'll be restored, and you're still going to be this little rock upon which I build my church. And so God didn't give up on Peter, and he's not gonna give up on you. And I think what the devil loves to do, Jonathan, is tell us we're Judas, and what the Holy Spirit wants us to is, no. No.
Speaker 1:No. No. You're Peter. We're all fallen. We're all guilty.
Speaker 1:We all struggle. But, really, the cure for anxiety is trusting that god is at work in us. It's funny. I was having pizza last night with somebody who's been in our church for thirty years. Can you believe that?
Speaker 1:So they were they were with us on our opening Sunday when we had eight people come. And I served as a youth pastor in his dad's church, and his dad is now struggling with memory issues and stuff like that, and that's really sad. But I can remember probably forty years ago, maybe maybe thirty five years ago, don't know the exact date, sitting in church, listening to his dad preach on Philippians one six, he who began a good work in you will continue it until the day of Christ Jesus. I'll never forget that sermon. And I was a young man, Jonathan, and it gave me such peace because my salvation was God beginning a work in me.
Speaker 1:It's not me starting a work. It was the Holy Spirit starting a work. And that whole verse for me, he who began a good work in you will continue it to the day of completion when Christ Jesus returns. So God started it. He'll finish it, and I'm gonna trust him to do that.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean that I don't do anything. I don't throw my hands up, like the famous song, Jesus take the wheel. But I trust God as I'm driving through life, and I'm journeying on these long roads that he's with me, and he's not gonna abandon me, and he's gonna get me safely home. And that's how I've overcome my fear of flying. I just I just learned to trust God.
Speaker 1:I quit overthinking. I quit... You know? And and let me just say, you know, when all of those Boeing airplanes were falling out of the sky, you remember that, the seven thirty seven MAX, that that really scared me. So I had...
Speaker 1:I would say I had some relapses for about maybe three, four months, but I got on a plane. And, you know, trusting God is not the not the absence of fear. It's having courage in Christ where you say, I'm gonna do this even though I'm afraid. And so I got on the plane, and I was fine, and that that subsided. But, you know, I used to fixate on aircraft disasters, and I just...
Speaker 1:I don't watch that stuff anymore. It's not helpful for me. It doesn't help me sleep at night. It doesn't give me peace on an airplane. We're all humans.
Speaker 1:Accidents happen. But if I'm honest, I'd be a whole lot more afraid to get on one of these electric bikes these kids are riding everywhere. We're losing a lot more people in our church on those things than we are on airplanes, and just nobody's talking about it. A little cute electric bike is far more dangerous to the future of your life than an airplane is right now, and so we just need to be aware of that. Life is risky.
Speaker 1:Every time we step out of the door, you know, danger's out there, and that's why some people get to the point where they can't go outside at all. But, you know, I've... I did a funeral for a guy fifteen years ago who died choking on a peanut butter jelly sandwich in his... In the kitchen. And so, I mean, here's where I've come to.
Speaker 1:If it's my time, it's my time. And I'm gonna trust God with my death, and I'm gonna honor him with my life. And so, you know, like, whenever I go on a trip or something, you know, my wife has always said, you know, don't mess up. And I told her all the time, I said, I fear messing up our marriage, but I also fear God. And my wife may not be with me all the time, but God is with me all the time.
Speaker 1:And so I just I just don't mess up because I I know he's with me and he's watching, and I just don't do anything in That... That's just... That's the thing. It's not it's not private. The lord sees.
Speaker 1:There's nowhere that I can hide from him. So, Jonathan, I'm praying for you, praying for our listeners. I hope this helps. These are great questions today. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1:If you'd like to submit a question, go to sandals church dot com slash the debrief. And, again, the show is only as good as your questions. Thank you so much. See you guys next time.