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Hosted by SRPMIC Assistant Community Manager, Lena Jackson-Eckert, this podcast takes a closer look at the programs, services, and people that help shape our Community. From everyday resources to unique stories and conversations, we’re here to share what matters. So let’s go ahead and zoom in.
Hey, welcome to Lena's Lens. I'm Lena Jackson Eckert, one of the assistant community managers with the Salt River Pima Maricopa Indian Community. From helpful resources to unique conversations, we're on a journey to explore our community. So let's go ahead and zoom in. Hello.
Lena:Welcome to Lena's Lens. Today, we're highlighting a unique group making a meaningful impact within our Salt River Department of Corrections. It's a therapeutic writing group, something powerful, heartfelt, and rooted in the belief that every person has a story worth telling. This episode is the first in a special mini series where we'll dive into how this idea began, why writing became such an important outlet for the participants, and what we've learned through the experience working with incarcerated individuals. You'll also hear how creativity can open doors and how storytelling fosters healing and how providing a safe space can spark real transformation.
Lena:Joining us today are Councilwoman Su:k Fulwilder and Reentry Services Supervisor, Nicolette Parrish, two people who have stepped forward to help bring this writing program to life. They'll be sharing their experiences, what surprised them, and what this work has meant to them and to the participants. Let's get into the conversation. Welcome to the show. Nicolette, can you tell us a little bit about what your role is and what you do for the community?
Nicolette:Yes. So I'm fairly new in this position. I am the Reentry Services Supervisor. So what that is, is I oversee all counseling services inside DOC, and I also supervise a group of counselors that run a reentry intensive outpatient at River People Health Center. So this position comes with a variety of tasks where we are coordinating counseling services inside DOC, identifying any needs that they might have when they're released from DOC, and then also encouraging them into some kind of therapeutic environment once they've been released.
Lena:So when you say reentry, these are people who have been serving time either here in tribal DOC or state DOC or federal DOC. Yes. Then they come out and they're basically or reentering the community and you guys help them transition. Yeah.
Nicolette:We are working towards that. I want to say we're a fairly new program because it's new to me. So right now our main focus would be our Salt River DOC. But then every now and then we get some big dogs coming in from state and feds. So that's been very interesting coordinating care that way.
Lena:So I want to talk a little bit about this new, I guess, group that you both have, I guess, volunteered, so to speak, to do within our Department of Corrections. I learned about it, I don't know, maybe a couple months ago when Councilwoman Fuwalder actually talked about wanting to go inside of DOC and maybe host some writing sessions with them, because I know that's something that you like to do. And so I thought it would be a good idea to have you guys on and kind of talk about what is it that you're doing, because sounds like you really are doing something really good and beneficial for the inmates. And so I wanted to hear from your perspective. So tell us a little bit about the idea for this class, where it came from, and how it began.
Lena:Councilwoman Fullwilder?
Su:k:Well, as a council member, I started to receive a few letters from inmates that were just going through things in there and trying to get help with stuff that they're dealing with. And I've always kind of felt, you know, that the people that are incarcerated, you know, need to be heard, their stories need to be told, and that maybe their voices aren't always heard. So I also I do poetry and, you know, poetry is kind of something that helped me survive my childhood, my teenage years, like depression. So I just figured, you know, for those people that are incarcerated, you know, maybe I can go in there. I'm not a teacher.
Su:k:I don't teach poetry. I write poetry, but I just kind of give them some writing prompts and ideas on what to write about. You know, it doesn't have to be poetry. It could be a story. It could be writing about your dreams or memories and, you know, just as a way of coping.
Lena:Yeah.
Su:k:So, it's turning out to be really good. I think, you know, not being a teacher was kind of like we're just winging it, like, you know, I'd bring in writing prompts and sometimes people would write according to that. Sometimes they'd bring in writings that they did over the weekend and sharing and, you know, just having conversations. So, I think it's going really good.
Su:k:Yeah.
Lena:And, Nicolette, how do you play? What's your role in the class?
Nicolette:I'd like to
Nicolette:say that I just got thrown into it. And my supervisor and Jacqueline not Jacqueline, Jessica Hunter came in and was like, hi, councilwoman, would love to, you know, host a poetry class in DOC. And just to make sure to cover like the clinical aspect of things, just in case things got too heavy and needed to process. That's ultimately like what I'm there for.
Nicolette:So I think the first couple of sessions I just sat there and like listened and enjoyed what they had to say. So I've been gracefully thrown in, it's been such a great
Lena:Awesome.
Lena:What has surprised you most about the individuals who have been participating in this class?
Su:k:I think just being that some of them are younger, some are I think some of the younger ones, at first really quiet and kind of, you know, to themselves. But eventually they started to open up and share some really good writings and expressing, you know, that they want to help people with their words. I think that was like, you know, the ultimate goal is to help somebody find their own voice. And like, I think that they're finding that. And it's really, I guess, rewarding in a way just to see that it's going somewhere, you know?
Su:k:Like when we show up and it's like, Oh, thank you guys for being here. Know, we appreciate you taking the time. And to me, that's like rewarding in itself that, you know, this was something that was needed and it's being provided. So I'm just thankful to be
Lena:a part of it. So, tell us about the class. Are you working with mostly men, women? It's once a week. Give us a little bit more details about it.
Nicolette:We work with primarily men for the first We're starting a new group schedule at the DOC, and we're doing in increments of twelve weeks. So this first round is men where we're mixing populations and it's been Meaning age, ages? No, I guess just the different kinds of populations in the DOC setting, general population. And so that's been our first time trying it and it's been everyone gets along. So that's been one of the most surprising things.
Nicolette:And we meet once a week for an hour and a half, and it's something that they look forward to. I think one of the things that I've learned and that has caught me off guard and it's been the most surprising is just their willingness to show vulnerability. It's taken some time, but they're really open and they opened up with us very quickly. So, yeah, I think just their advocacy for themselves has been pretty awesome to see too. Right.
Lena:Well, you
Lena:guys probably made it a comfortable setting for them to feel like they can open up and they were safe opening up. So what kind of themes or topics are you hearing in these sessions? Because I could imagine it would be heavy.
Su:k:Yeah. A lot of it has to do with the struggles, like just growing up in the community, growing up, you know, as a native or, like, the struggles they go through dealing with depression and grief and, you know, losing people. And also, the main thing is being being locked up and not being able to be there for your family or even missing, you know, important things that you would normally be there for, like somebody's funeral. And I've noticed that, you know, for my own relatives, like, I had relatives that were in prison for years. And I just think about all the people that they lost along the way.
Su:k:You know, we lost as a family, but them not being able to be there, like, I mean, I just felt that pain for them. I don't know what that's like to go through that. But a lot of that has come up and just reflecting on their life choices and wanting to give back to the community and, you know, their words being heard. And I think that that's really significant, you know, for them to want to share that with other people because a lot of times, you know, when it comes to feelings and emotions and life experiences, a lot of us bottle that up and don't want to talk about it. So, for them to talk about it, I think, has been really good for them.
Su:k:You know, I share some stuff about myself, too, and the struggles I went through. I think that kind of, you know, made it a little more comfortable. And I did say, you know, I want this to be a safe place where we're not judging anybody. We're not, you know, putting anybody down. We're just listening and supporting each other.
Su:k:So, it's been good.
Lena:And I think a couple weeks ago, you actually read one of the poems. Well, last week you did too, right? You read a poem from somebody in there. But also I remember you saying that they talk about wanting to make sure that others don't follow in their footsteps or at least give them their feelings about the path that they took. So maybe they won't follow that same path.
Su:k:Yeah. So a lot of them are fathers. They're uncles. They're big brothers. You know, they have daughters or, you know, sons even.
Su:k:I think that's something that they really hold to their heart, that's like, I want somebody to hear what I'm saying and not go in the same direction I went in my life. And I know it's not easy because everybody makes their own choices, but I've always felt like, you know, who better to tell this type of story or like, don't follow this path because I've already followed it and I know what's down there. And like, you know, myself, I've never been locked up to know what it's like or to, you know, experience that. But for those kids that are on their way to prison or on their way to jail, maybe they'll stop and think about it when they hear it from somebody they know or somebody from the community. I think that's really important.
Lena:So do you feel like this has given them the opportunity for a voice that maybe isn't always heard because of their status or being incarcerated?
Nicolette:I think so. I think just meeting with them and hearing them for who they are has instilled some kind of hope with them. Because now we know we're starting to hear, well, when I get out, this is what I want to be. This is what I want to do. And also recognizing that they're more than just their charges.
Nicolette:Because a lot of the times we hear them say, well, I know I'm not one to talk, but we know with our just encouragement or just acknowledgement and telling them We can learn from you regardless of what you've been through or where you're at. Like you guys have stuff that we can learn from and you can talk about it because you've been through it and you know how to overcome it. So that's been really awesome is just to see
Nicolette:them having hope.
Lena:That's awesome. I love that. So how does creative writing contribute to personal growth and healing in your opinions?
Su:k:I think it just gives you time to, like, reflect on what's going on in your life, especially, you know, having all that time on your hands, you know, and you're sitting there left with your thoughts, like, instead of, like, just shutting down and not talking about them. Even if you can't talk to anybody about them, you can write them down, you can get them off your chest. So, that was, you know, something that I brought up when I first went to the class was just like, you know, this is what kept me alive, you know, whether or not I shared it with anybody. And most of the time I didn't. You know, when I was younger, I wouldn't share what was going on, but I could write it down.
Su:k:And that's what kind of helped me. So, I think that's, you know, something that they can do on their spare time or when they're going through something, because a lot of them said, you know, it's hard sometimes to sit down and write, but when, you know, when you're going through something and you're dealing with something emotionally, then, you know, those thoughts come to you, you know, write it down. So keep encouraging them to do that.
Nicolette:Whoever I work with, we always talk about how we're so inclined to keep things bottled up. And I always tell our clients, Well, you're thinking at all, it just stays in your head and it just ruminates in your head and gets bigger and bigger. So, I've always talked to people like if you are thinking it, say it out loud so you hear it and it processes with them. And so, them just getting it out and writing it and reading it, it's processing with it. So, I think just being able to have that outlet is so much better than bottling it up and keeping it in and it not going anywhere.
Lena:Yeah. Right. So it's kind of like journaling, right? I mean, that's why they say journaling is helpful. Do you notice that they are writing in their spare time and so they come to class with something?
Lena:Or what is it? How do you think they're
Su:k:Sometimes. I think sometimes they come, you know, at least a few of them will have something to read. If not, we also just sit there and have conversations, go around the room and, you know, check on how everybody's feeling or, you know, what's been going on in their mind or just different topics come up and we just have conversation. I think I heard someone say that I really like it because it's real quiet in here. Peaceful.
Su:k:Like, it's real loud out there with everybody. So it kind of just gives them a break from, I guess, where they're at. And I think that's It's good, you know. Sometimes you need that quiet space. It's good that everybody gets along.
Su:k:You know, I'm just glad that everybody, you know, is respectful respectful when other people are talking and, you know, they give each other that time and that grace. I like it.
Lena:So have you seen or noticed any changes in confidence, communication skills, self awareness? Is that something you guys have seen in this process?
Nicolette:Yeah, I'd say so. Especially in the last couple of sessions that we've had, they all read a lot. So they'll come in and be like, was reading this book and they're talking about thoughts and how thoughts control A, B, and C. And it all comes down to us and controlling it. I'm like, Yes, we all have a choice to make these changes.
Nicolette:So a lot of the times they don't realize that even though we're there, they're actually doing the work on their own and we're just listening to them. So again, just seeing them have goals and dreams and wanting change and a healthier lifestyle. So we've seen, I don't know, would you say that we've seen a lot of like some self esteem develop too? Maybe just-
Su:k:Yeah, definitely. I think just talking about what they want to do when they get out. And we've all kind of, I think other people besides me have mentioned too, like, you know, what we say out loud and, you know, I've said, Well, you're gonna do that. You're gonna do that. So, instead of saying, Oh, I want to, you start saying, I'm going to.
Su:k:And, you know, it's kind of changing how we talk. And even myself, I've been learning how to manifest and that's another thing we talked about, is manifesting and what you're gonna do, not what you want to do. So, I think it's really cool just to hear all the things that they want to do when they get out. I'm like, I'm looking forward to seeing that happen, you know? Because if we can heal ourselves, you know, as people, as fathers, as mothers, like, you know, that's gonna help someone else down the road, you know?
Su:k:Like, they want to be there for their family. And, you know, being a healthier version of themselves, I think, is the most important thing. It's like we all rub off on each other in good ways and putting that good energy out. I'm just looking forward, you know, to the future to see what good things they can bring to the table, and I believe they can.
Lena:And I love that the reentry program is a part of this because then it also gives them that path, and they can be aware that this is available to them. So those things are possible for them to make those changes and to get on a healthier healing path.
Nicolette:Yeah. And then it also helps me as the supervisor to see where in our program we need to make changes or how we can add. And of course, just like anything, you know, we hear it enough and you have all these ideas pop up and hopefully, you know, can build that within the next couple of years. It could really just start with giving them that voice that we've Yeah. And giving them that space that we've provided in this group.
Lena:I love that. So what do you think are some misconceptions that people have about incarcerated individuals?
Nicolette:Probably that they're all scary or they're all, I don't know, evil and mean. Don't know. That's not our group at all. We will come in and we joke. Maybe I think another one is just they don't deserve goodness because of, you know, the harm that they might have caused to other people.
Nicolette:But I've always I come in from an approach where it's not my job to judge. You know, I'm here to help. And I think when you just allow that space or just show up and just be consistent with our clients like that, then they learn to trust you. Just working in the behavioral health field, you're already working with this population. So it's really no different than what I worked with.
Nicolette:My parents weren't so excited about it when I was like, Oh, I'm going into DOC. My dad's like, What? Prison? You know? So really, I'm just like, I'm already working with this population, but I can just see that just being scared for one, maybe.
Nicolette:You know?
Su:k:Yeah. I think one of the inmates said it himself that hurt people hurt people. So, heard that many times. You know, myself, I know so many people that have been in jail. And out And, you know, we know them as our brothers, we know them as our uncles, our cousins, and to us, they're good people with good hearts, but, know, they're hurting inside and, you know, might not make the right choices in life and end up where they are.
Su:k:That could be any one of us. So myself, I just, you know, look at them as any other person, any other of my relatives, and just need that second chance or somebody to believe in them. Yeah.
Lena:Well, what you guys are doing is amazing. I commend you for going in there, and Councilwoman Fulwilder for even having that idea because most people probably wouldn't even think about it. So have you guys received the support that you needed from the jail or from Department of Corrections and any other, I don't know, stakeholders out there in the community that might help make this happen?
Nicolette:Yeah. I'd want to say, you know, the director, Director Daly has been so supportive. Lieutenant Mitchell has been so supportive. Just rebuilding this program and talking to her and telling her, Hey, this group schedule you guys have doesn't work. How can we make these changes?
Nicolette:And I said, How can we work together to build this program to make it easier on both of us? And they've been like, Well, we'll do all the hard work and identifying who goes where and what is what. And you guys show up. So I felt nothing but support from Lieutenant Mitchell and
Lena:Director Daly. Awesome. Yeah. And just for the listeners, to let you know, this is actually the first of a miniseries. And we're actually going to be You're going to be hearing from some of those that are participating in this program.
Lena:So be on the lookout for additional episodes. And that's something that I think Director Daly and Lieutenant Mitchell were just like, Yeah, tell us what you need and we'll make it happen. So that's been really, really awesome and good that they're willing to do whatever it takes to make this successful. What do you think so far has been the most rewarding part of the work that you've been doing in the DLC?
Su:k:I think the willingness just to open up. So initially, you know, it was just for me to go in and help, you know, navigate people, helping them to learn how to write, which, you know, like I said, I'm not a teacher. But one of the inmates was like, Well, can we share this with people? Can we share this with the younger generation? Like, I think, you know, it would help.
Su:k:And then another one said, I've always wanted to do that. Like, I want to help those that, you know, are following the same path and I don't want them to end up where I am. And, you know, I think that was like, to me, was like, wow, because I've always, you know, thought that the young people should hear from those who've already But been for them to already offer that without me having to ask, I was like, wow, like they really, you know, want to do this and I'm glad that, you know, it's happening. And I thank you, Lena, for your support and the DLC and everybody, HHS or Yeah. Was it HHS?
Su:k:Yeah. Yeah, HHS for, you know, offering Nicolette as a support system. Think it's all been going good. So, I'm just happy in the direction it's going right now.
Lena:Yeah, I think it seems like everything just really came together and it flows. There hasn't been any issue. So it feels like this is right and this is something that we were supposed to do. So I'm glad that it's been working out for everybody. So what are your hopes for the future of this?
Nicolette:Oh, I'd love I mean, one of our clients today was like, So are we going to have our own podcast? You know, I think it would be so awesome just to go in and continue to give them the voice. But then as a whole and like the bigger, bigger picture future future for reentry, like I would love for us to have programs going inside DOC and providing like learning how to be like a trade carpentry, like all sorts of things so we can truly set them up for success when they get out. But that's mean, it'll happen. Yeah.
Nicolette:It'll happen eventually. You know, that's been the biggest thing. But just continuing for me having a positive relationship with our DOC clients who already feel like they've been forgotten. And so just giving them the space, the time, and just being consistent with them. I just want
Su:k:to see it plant seeds, you know, and see growth. And I think we've already seen that, you know? But as far as like where it can go, I would like to see, you know, and I thank you guys for allowing us to do this and using the podcast. I thank your staff for allowing it. But I feel like there's other people's voices that need to be heard, too, like, as well.
Su:k:Like, you know, there's a lot of youth in the community who have a lot to say, have a You know, they're poets. Some of them sing. Some of them rap. You know, there's a lot of artists. I think creative expression is always a great way of healing.
Su:k:So, you know, I think the more we encourage it, you know, the bigger it gets and the more people are open and vulnerable and willing And to share a piece of I think that's how we can build our community back up, a bigger support system.
Lena:And that's really healing for everybody, not only for the participant, but the community, like you said.
Nicolette:Thank
Lena:you both for being here today and for the important work you're doing. This conversation reminds us that creativity, connection, and compassion can have profound impact, sometimes in the most unexpected places. Your openness and dedication help create space for others to heal, reflect, and find their voice, and that is truly meaningful. This is just the beginning of our miniseries. In upcoming episodes, you'll hear directly from individuals participating in the writing group, gaining deeper insight into their experiences and the growth happening inside the program.
Lena:We hope these conversations continue to shed light on the power of expression and the importance of supporting our community members, wherever they may be on their journey. Thank you to our listeners for joining us today. We look forward to having you back for the next episode of Lena's Lens.