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No one has it all figured out. And anyone who says they do? Well, they’re lying.
This is for the women who are trying. Trying to juggle all the things. Trying to make sense of what they actually want. Trying to keep their heads above water without losing themselves in the process.
Career. Money. Relationships. The pressure to do it all. The pressure to want it all. And the moments you secretly wonder, is it just me?
Here we speak openly, laugh through chaos, and ask questions instead of pretending to have all the answers.
Because we’re all a work in progress.
Brianna Doe (00:00):
Being a woman in tech and then adding being Black on top of it, I very rarely saw women in leadership at all. And so it almost felt like, I'm not sure if you can relate to this, but it started to feel like the goals or the dreams I had were so unrealistic because hello, nobody else is doing it either. It's hard to stay motivated, I think, or hopeful when you aren't quite sure what you're working towards because it's not being modeled in front of you.
Gayle Kalvert (00:25):
This is Work in Progress. I'm your host, Gayle Kalvert, and yes, I'm a work in progress. Hi everyone. Welcome back to Work in Progress. I'm your host, Gayle Kalvert, and today we have a really special guest, Brianna Doe. Brianna is an incredible entrepreneur who made the leap from the corporate world to building her own business. She's faced the challenges of being a woman in business head on and built a thriving company from the ground up. In this episode, we're diving into Brianna's personal journey, leaving corporate life, the struggles of being a female entrepreneur and how she's navigated business partnerships. We're going to hear about the tough decisions she's had to make, the support that she's received and the lessons she's learned along the way. We also talk about what a day in the life looks like for Brianna. I know that you're going to enjoy this episode. I'm so excited to have you, Brianna. Thank you for joining me. So before we get started, can you tell everyone a little bit about your corporate career before you left to start your own business?
Brianna Doe (01:28):
Yeah, definitely. So for the first 12 or 13 years of my career, I worked in very lean, very fast-paced startups. I started off in the nonprofit space, then transitioned to mostly D to C e-commerce, but a lot of health and wellness, sustainability, a little bit of politics, and then half transitioned into tech or B2B SaaS about five years ago, but now just kind of straddle the line of everything I mentioned along the way. I always had a full-time job, a nine-to-five, but then I also always just had my own thing going on. Ran a photography business for a while, freelance marketing, things like that. I was just never fully satisfied just having one thing going. So I did that for a long time, then transitioned into Verbatim, my agency in 2023.
Gayle Kalvert (02:12):
Amazing. Now, what was it that made you finally take the leap? Like you said you had the corporate thing going. That was going really well on paper anyway, right? Like you said, you were doing a bunch of things on the side. So what was it that made you feel, you shared with me, you were trying to fit yourself into some sort of corporate model that didn't fit. Was that part of it? What really motivated you to really, I mean, it's a pretty big risk to leave all that and do your own thing?
Brianna Doe (02:42):
Yeah, I mean, to your point, it did look good on paper, climbing the corporate ladder in a way that I wanted to in the way I had envisioned, but I was deeply unhappy. It wasn't one thing that made me leave corporate or want to leave corporate. It was just this feeling that followed me from role to role where I just felt not content, not satisfied, not happy with the work I was doing. And I reached a point where I started a new role at a FinTech startup. Three months in, like clockwork. I was not enjoying myself. I was really, really not liking it. And so I hired a career coach. At this point, I was like, okay, there has to be something that I'm missing. I don't know what my blind spots are essentially, but I need somebody to just help me break this down.
(03:21):
I want to be a stronger leader. I want to be a better employee. I want to feel more content in this work. Everybody else looks happy. Why am I not enjoying myself? And so that was really, she really pushed me to examine if I even wanted to work in corporate and examined the way I kind of put myself into this box where I thought I had to stay in corporate, reach the VP level, reach SVP, reach the CMO before I ever even thought about leaving corporate. And so I'm really grateful to her for her guidance there. And I think a big part of it was just learning to let go of these milestones or random rules that I'd put on myself when it came time to just leave and start my own thing.
Gayle Kalvert (04:01):
I can definitely relate to that. I mean, when I left college, I thought, I'm going to move to New York City. I'm going to climb the corporate ladder. I'm going to be a badass, like C-level something. And once you start achieving and moving along that corporate ladder and your resume looks really amazing. Do you remember every time you wanted to change jobs, you do your resume and all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm actually pretty, this is pretty impressive. Yeah.
Brianna Doe (04:26):
Pretty great.
Gayle Kalvert (04:26):
Yeah.
Brianna Doe (04:26):
Who is she?
Gayle Kalvert (04:29):
Who is she? I'm her. Is that what we're saying? My kids will definitely make fun of me now, but yes. And then you go into entrepreneurship, number one, you have no idea if it's going to work out. You're leaving that whole, the status, I guess, that I felt like I had worked my ass off to achieve. And that's a little dicey. So you decided you were going to do it. What was it that you left corporate to do?
Brianna Doe (04:56):
Yeah, well, also I agree with you. I feel like you're so easily, it's easier for people to define you when you work in corporate. This is Brianna, this is her role, this is the company she works for. They do X, Y, and Z. It's so much different when you have to build that for yourself and kind of redefine yourself. But yeah, I left corporate to launch my own marketing agency, so I launched Verbatim. We started as a full-service marketing agency and then niched down to influencer marketing, which has always been just a core part of my role throughout the years. So we do influencer marketing, speaker sourcing, then occasionally fractional marketing leadership.
Gayle Kalvert (05:29):
Okay, amazing. And so was it just you at the beginning or?
Brianna Doe (05:33):
I launched with a business partner. We'd been friends for a while. We met through LinkedIn, so we decided to go in together. She had also recently left corporate. She was working as a career coach for job seekers, so we decided to do it together.
Gayle Kalvert (05:46):
Okay. And so should we skip to the end of what happened with that? How does that go?
Brianna Doe (05:49):
I no longer have a partner.
Gayle Kalvert (05:52):
Okay.
Brianna Doe (05:53):
It's always interesting. I mean, I think you can compare it or relate it a lot to when you become roommates with a good friend, being good friends with somebody is not the same as living with them. It's not the same as working with them. And I think fundamentally we just had different goals. We had entirely different working styles and different visions for what Verbatim could be or what we wanted our lives to look like and our careers to look like. And so I think once you start to see the cracks, you can't just kind of dismiss them or overlook them. So at the six-month mark, we signed the paperwork and separated. It's hard to explain. It was amicable and it wasn't. We're not friends anymore. So you can take that for what it is. I think you have to have an incredibly, incredibly strong foundation.
(06:38):
You go from this happy moment where you're building together to realizing like, oh, this is not going to work. And it just becomes complicated and I think people's emotions become really heightened. We did have a lawyer involved who had actually been the one that to help us to create the LLC. So I'm really grateful for him and for what he had set in place for us. It didn't get contentious in the sense that I would be cordial if I saw her, but it didn't end as well as I would've hoped. I think I would've liked our friendship to survive it, but I also think we learned a lot about each other and realized that we were fundamentally incompatible as friends too. Yeah, it was hard. It was very hard. There were moments, especially going through it where I feel like I lost sight of what I was fighting for because I wanted to keep Verbatim. Running a marketing agency to some extent, some sort of consultancy had always been something I was interested in, and so it was important to me to keep that brand that I'd already spent so much time building, but there was so many moments where I lost sight of that.
(07:31):
I was stressed, I was overwhelmed. We were negotiating, and I asked my then fiance, now husband a lot, should I just start over? Maybe I should just cut my losses and start something new. He essentially said, absolutely not. You've building this forever or it feels like forever, but it really challenges you and it really stretches you, and I felt very beaten up by the time you signed the paperwork.
Gayle Kalvert (07:56):
It's emotional. It's financial and professional, so your entire self is really wrapped up in that. I don't think you can probably separate a relationship like that without it being really difficult. So that said, for anyone listening who's thinking about going into business with a partner because that can work and that can go well, is there anything you would say, look, these are the things that you should do just to set yourself up for success? Even if success means you do go your separate ways at some point, like having a lawyer you mentioned for one I would say is critical, right? Don't go into business with a friend or partner thinking it's going to be great. You need to go in expecting that it won't go well. Sorry if that sounds bad, but I think that's how you should go into it because if your friendship means more to you than business, then you should not go into business together because now we know business is hard, right? It is hard. And to navigate that with somebody else, you kind of need to go in knowing that this is going to be a difficult situation. It can be rewarding and it can work well, but it's not going to be easy, I don't think.
Brianna Doe (09:08):
Oh, I completely agree. And you're right. I think looking back, I definitely had rose colored glasses on. I mean, you're excited. Everything's beautiful. The birds are singing, the world is brighter. You're excited to do this with your friend or with somebody that you really respect and admire. You have to protect your future self and in this case your friend as well, and what this might look like a year, two years, 10 years from now. I think it's very important to have a lawyer. You want to have uncomfortable conversations when you are in a good place that you don't have to have them if you separate. So that's important to keep in mind. And then I would also recommend some sort of trial partnership first, especially if you've never worked together before or built a business together before. Work that into the agreement as well. Test it for six months, nine months, whatever the case may be, and have parameters in place for how you would separate or allocate assets if or when the time comes. I think that was huge after. That's one thing that I learned when I spoke to the lawyer after the separation was complete. He recommended that. He was like, if you ever decide to do this again with another partner, which absolutely not, but if you do, start with a trial, it's a lot easier to fire somebody than it is to separate from a partner.
Gayle Kalvert (10:22):
Yeah, that's really good advice. I totally agree. You're all excited. Everybody wants, everything's going to be successful and great, and it's hard to know how that's really going to go.
Brianna Doe (10:31):
Yeah, a thousand percent.
Gayle Kalvert (10:33):
Well, let's go into another topic that you and I have talked about. It's like how hard it can be when you're trying to be successful in something and you don't see anybody who looks like you having that same kind of success. And I told you, I found an article that you were featured. You were featured in a magazine about this as well. Being a Black woman in business in tech, we can say that's not a space where you were seeing a lot of people who look like you to model yourself after. Can you kind of take us back to what were the challenges? What made that difficult for you as you were navigating your career?
Brianna Doe (11:13):
Well, there are so many layers to it. I mean, it's being a woman in tech and then adding being Black on top of it. I very rarely saw women in leadership at all, and so it almost felt like, I'm not sure if you can relate to this, but it started to feel like the goals or the dreams I had were so unrealistic because hello, nobody else is doing it either. It's hard to stay motivated, I think, or hopeful when you aren't quite sure what you're working towards because it's not being modeled in front of you. That was difficult. I also think, especially earlier in my career when I was trying to find my voice, trying to figure out what it meant to advocate for myself, trying to figure out what I wanted out of my career, to then also be in this position where you feel so isolated.
(11:55):
I think for a lot of folks that represent marginalized communities, you walk into a space where there aren't other people that look like you or sound like you are of similar backgrounds, and you're also expected to speak for this entire community. You are the token and layering that on top of just doing your day-to-day work, trying to get a promotion, trying to get a raise, it just feels so exhausting. I think that's the main feeling I had is just exhaustion. And so I actually cycled through burnout quite a bit. I would say from probably 21 to 26, and I could not figure out the root until I started peeling back the layers and realizing there's something more systemic going on as well. It's trying to figure out what I want to be professionally. Then also trying to figure out how to advocate for myself and navigate these uncomfortable situations. I think dealing with those two layers and not having support in place to help me through it is what leads to the burnout.
Gayle Kalvert (12:49):
Yeah, that's really interesting. I just tried to act like a man. That's what I did. I mean, I was very much a woman, but I was like, to your point, it was like, well, I don't see anybody that looks like me in power positions, so I don't have anybody to model myself after. I didn't have family members who were corporate. I didn't come from that. Right? So yeah, I didn't think about it at the time, but I remember always thinking, oh, being a feminist, no, we don't have issues. I was overcompensating or when I think now about my younger self, I'm sort of not embarrassed, but I wish that I had more conviction and more. I was braver because like I said, the way I dealt with it was, I'm just going to try to fit in the men who are in power positions. These are the things that they do. This is what their life looks like. So I'm going to try to do that and fit in instead of being myself and being unapologetically myself and also being great at my job. I sort of just tried to fit in. I wouldn't tell people what to do now.
Brianna Doe (14:06):
It's interesting. Obviously hindsight's 20-20. I also think it's a survival tactic, though. That makes sense to me. I did the same thing and I look back and I do cringe a little bit, but I also think we do the best we can with the information that we have. And yes, I think you can be braver now. I can be braver now, but also to your point, when we're not seeing women in leadership who have also been able to be brave and reach the level that we want to get to, it's like, okay, well, is this stupid bravery? Should I just shut out? Sit down. And I think that's why mentorship and community is so important, especially for young women, women of all ages honestly, but especially for young women entering the workforce and entering corporate America, it's incredibly important to have people around you who have experienced it or are walking through it with you. Otherwise, it kind of feels a bit like a hamster on a wheel, in my opinion.
Gayle Kalvert (15:02):
No, I appreciate that. Thanks for making me feel less bad, but even now I'm thinking...totally what you're saying is now we have more power because we own our own businesses. We have more control over our voice, and so I want to help other women not feel like I did. But yeah, I didn't see any women in positions of power who were speaking out and taking me under their wing. That was not happening, and I didn't really find my community. I'm not kidding, until maybe two months ago, Brianna, I feel like I am just yes, through this podcast experience and meeting women like you. I mean, you're one of them, thank you. I don't know many people who were doing what I was doing, and so I would always say, I'm just kind of winging it. I'm not really sure. I don't have some model of some founder who owns an agency or a podcaster or anything that I was modeling myself after. And finding those people is unbelievably comforting to know how much time I really wasted wondering if I was doing the right thing and making stuff up on your own instead of having a community and a network that you can tap into and ask and be vulnerable. You and I talk and I'm like, I'm totally embarrassed to tell you X. And you're like, oh my God, me too. You have to have somebody you can do that with, right?
Brianna Doe (16:25):
Yeah, and I love that for you, honestly, even if you are only starting to experience that now, there's something so beautiful about finding those people and building that community. So I'm just really happy for you, and this might be a spicy take, but going back to something you said, you didn't really have those women that would take you under their wing. I also think there's this element of competition. Not always, I've met so many incredible female professionals, but it's like you're competing for that one spot because there are so few opportunities available, and that's just as damaging. You see it so often, and I think it's just really sad.
Gayle Kalvert (17:00):
100%. And that also made me feel less trusting of women. That was my experience in corporate. Once I went out on my own, I find it to be totally different because you realize there is so much opportunity out there. I've always come from the place of there's more than enough opportunity out there for everybody, so let's help each other. But to your point, in corporate, that's not the reality. Somebody has to get fired for somebody to get promoted, or there's one head of the department. That was my experience, and if a female saw that you were an accomplished capable woman, they were like, fuck, right, absolutely not. Well, no, it's true. Yeah, that is not spicy, so.
Brianna Doe (17:44):
Perfect. No, but yeah, it's true. And I think it is night and day when you go out on your own. I mean, I share, I refer potential clients to other women all the time. If it's not a good fit, there's just this. You don't have to fight over scraps. The table is humongous.
Gayle Kalvert (18:02):
So let's talk more about Verbatim and how you started that. Like you said, I know you had a partner and then that dissolved. What does that look like? That's what most people ask me. Brianna honestly is like, what does your day look like? Women want to know how do you make this happen? So what does the day in the life of Brianna look like, running a company now.
Brianna Doe (18:25):
A day in the life looks like it starts off with me checking with my team. So I have one full-time, two part-time folks checking with them, making sure that they know what they're working on, if they have any blockers, questions, et cetera. So that's probably the first 15 minutes that I tackle emails, following up with clients, updates on projects. We do a lot of speaker sourcing, like I mentioned, and influencer marketing. So following up with the extensions of those partnerships as well, making sure everybody has what they need. Middle of the day is typically deep focus work and or meetings. So especially right now with the book coming out, we've gotten a ton of new clients lately, just trying to find a way to manage all of that. So I've started blocking off certain days just to focus on those two things. So I'll take meetings typically from 12 to four Tuesday through Thursday, and then the time outside of that is spent either on more deep work or on wrapping up projects.
(19:21):
I typically, I look at my week instead of my day. So if this is helpful for people. Mondays, I do not take meetings. That's when I am basically getting ready for the week. So catching up on all the emails that I got on Friday and Saturday, any projects that are in the works, that's when I send out client updates on those they know right at the beginning of the week. And I really take that day to just set my intentions for the rest of the week. Tuesday through Thursday, our meetings, creative work, all of the above. Thursdays. I typically also reserve for podcasts as well. I try to limit meetings and keep that for content. Fridays, it depends on the week, but I typically try not to take meetings so I can basically do the inverse of Monday, wrap up the week, make sure clients know where we're at to deal with any last minute fires. And then each day there is a midday workout as well to kind of break up the mundane.
Gayle Kalvert (20:14):
My schedule is horrific compared to...
Brianna Doe (20:17):
Is it?
Gayle Kalvert (20:17):
You've got this zen situation going. You're like, okay, everybody, no meetings on Mondays and Fridays. I work out in the middle of the day. What do you not have figured out right now, Brianna?
Brianna Doe (20:28):
Okay, but additional context, I wake up super early.
Gayle Kalvert (20:32):
Oh, great. So now you're also the person who's like, I get up at five and I have my workout. I'm hating you now. I don't think we can be friends.
Brianna Doe (20:41):
You just cut this entire episode.
Gayle Kalvert (20:44):
No, no. People are going to love me for this because you're of those people that's on LinkedIn. You've got to start your day at 4:30 with a cold shot of kombucha or something. What's up? Come on.
Brianna Doe (20:57):
Okay. You know what's funny though? I also do a face ice bath in the morning, which is like, but I will say this, I hate that I wake up early. This actually has been going on since I was a kid. My mom, amazing woman, very Jamaican, very rigid with timelines. She would wake us up at 5:00 AM every day, even on Saturdays to clean. She'd be playing super loud gospel music. There's a whole thing. And so I'm incapable of sleeping in past five.
Gayle Kalvert (21:26):
Okay.
Brianna Doe (21:26):
If I could, I would. Which is why I never tell people to wake up early. Oh my God. If that helps, maybe that makes it better.
Gayle Kalvert (21:34):
No, it's not making it better at all. No, because you get up, you're doing an ice bath, and you then you're working okay, you've got your facial regimen, you've got your workout regimen, you've got your day booked into units. My calendar is open. I'm like, just book it up, whatever.
Brianna Doe (21:51):
No, you need to color code and you need to have blocks.
Gayle Kalvert (21:54):
I try to color code, but after a week or two, I can't keep it up anymore.
Brianna Doe (21:59):
Oh, I love a color coded calendar. You need your time blocks. Time blocks have changed my life. I think it's the reason I can work so quickly if I say I only have two hours to work on this, but it has to be high quality. I'm going to be a lot more diligent for me. I'm going to be a lot more diligent about my time than if I just say, I'll get it done by Friday.
Gayle Kalvert (22:18):
Okay.
Brianna Doe (22:18):
Whatever. So just saying.
Gayle Kalvert (22:20):
Okay, I need to know. We need to pull the listeners. Am I the only person that doesn't time block their calendar or come on, there have to be other people like me. I'm super productive. I don't even have an issue with how I'm working, but I'm feeling really bad about myself and I don't work out and I don't do an ice bath any part of my body.
Brianna Doe (22:44):
Yeah, but you have great hair.
Gayle Kalvert (22:46):
Thank you. Thank you. That's great. I appreciate it.
Brianna Doe (22:48):
You're doing amazing. Can I ask you, what does a day in your life look like or a week?
Gayle Kalvert (22:53):
Well, now I'm embarrassed. Okay. So I have been working aggressively, Brianna, at de-corporatizing my schedule, if that's a word. I don't know. So I have always been the one that is like, I got to get up early and my mother and father are the way of you rest when you've earned it, right? I didn't have to get up at five, but it was like you were busy. We're busy. You're always productive and doing. And so that is so deeply ingrained in me after 20 years of corporate just being like, I am racing to hit the next promotion, the next raise, all that stuff. And the only way you could achieve that in corporate or myself anyway, maybe everybody else was color blocking and doing all that great stuff, but I was like, I got to get there before everybody and stay later.
(23:43):
That whole thing. And I've realized, so now I've owned Creo for four years, and it's only the last year that I have started to kind of be like, you don't have to get up and do the things in the order that you always did in corporate. I would reward myself if I had worked hard instead of, wait, you did this because you wanted to design a life that you love. I do really love to work, so I don't feel sad. It's not like, oh, I'm burned out by that. But I do realize I need to build in time and also not beat myself up for not doing X amount of hours every day. I actually will start work at nine 30 now, which is a really big deal for me, Brianna. I'm working on it. I still feel bad about it. I meet with my amazing assistant who we've talked about this, the whole assistant guilt thing where I felt like, who am I to have an assistant?
(24:38):
Who do I think I am? But as you and I talked about, I'm here to tell every woman have an assistant and don't feel fucking bad about it because it's amazing. So I don't color blog, but Dana takes care and makes sure that I'm okay, and that gives me so much energy. Amazing. It's just fun. And we chat and get everything in order, and then I just do whatever happens that day. But that sounds so I do have a plan for my business and my life, but Brianna, I think the thing for me is I get energy from this in person. So if I have a day where I have no meetings, that is a really sad day for me. Truly. Maybe I need more actual friends on Long Island. Do you want to come visit?
Brianna Doe (25:19):
I would love to come visit. I've never been to Long Island, so name the day.
Gayle Kalvert (25:22):
When you're from New York originally. Yeah, we could do that. Yeah. Yeah, we would love that. Okay, we can make kind of me for the rest of the episode., but...
Brianna Doe (25:30):
I think that's great. And I also like how you talk about de-corporatizing your life, essentially, your career. For me, I didn't think about it until you said that, but I did that as well. The issue for me in corporate, one of the many issues was that I couldn't have a schedule. People were just throwing meetings on your calendar, and I could never just have time to just sit and work or think about the work I'm supposed to be doing. And so yeah, now I just love my time blocks even more, so thank you.
Gayle Kalvert (25:59):
But that is something about recognizing that you have control, and that's definitely where it comes from, where I'm like, everything is an emergency and was due yesterday in corporate, and that's why I'm like, well, I could never tell that person that I can't meet till three weeks from now. And when that happens to me with somebody, I'm like, oh, how grit. I'm not offended, so why wouldn't I do the same? This has turned into a corporate rehab session for me, so thank you. Thank you for joining.
(26:27):
I can't be the only one that is needing this lesson. So what else, Brianna? These are good tips. How else?
Brianna Doe (26:33):
No, this is great.
Gayle Kalvert (26:34):
Even for people who are corporate, right, and love it. I mean, we've talked about that too. I talked to a lot of women. Sometimes you shouldn't go out on your own. Sometimes maybe corporate is the right answer or not. Corporate. Whenever the job that you're in and working for somebody else might be the absolute best thing for you. And I think it is for a lot of people. And then you know what? When you're not working, shut it off and actually do what you love would be my advice. Definitely turn off sometimes.
Brianna Doe (27:05):
I would agree. I think first of all, I support anybody who wants to have a standard traditional nine to five. I think it's amazing. I have a good friend who went out on her own, didn't enjoy it, and went back to corporate. She's like, I just feel like my friends are going to judge me or think differently of me. I was like, girl, that's amazing. You figured out what you enjoy. You figured out where you thrived and what sort of environments, and you went back to what works. I think entrepreneurship is really glamorized online. It just looks like you take lots of baths and have ton of employees and you never do work, which that would be awesome, I guess. Yeah, that's a lot of work, and I think you have to be very extremely invested emotionally and mentally into what you're building for it to work. There are going to be incredible highs and they're going to be the lowest valleys you've ever experienced in your entire life, and you have to be able to know what you're building towards. And so it has to be important to you, and it can be important to you for a variety of reasons, because of the money, because of the mission of whatever you're building, because of how it helps you grow and challenges you and you learn whatever the case may be. Your why can vary, but you have to have a why.
Gayle Kalvert (28:13):
I love that you said the story that you shared, that she was like, what are my friends going to think? Because don't we all care too much about what our friends are going to think or family or whoever. It was really critical for me to realize that it doesn't matter what people think of you, and most people are only thinking about themselves, and if people are thinking badly of you, why they don't have enough going on in their life, so it's not worth it. Are they really your friends in the first place? I have a 16-year-old daughter, and it's like if your friends are not raising you up, celebrating you when you're doing well and lifting you up when you're not, they're not your friends. And I think women as adults need to remember that too. And I also procure my Instagram to make sure that, but it's really helped.
(29:02):
So people, there are definitely people who hate social media. I get it, but I actually find it can be incredibly helpful when you're getting the right content, when you actually are seeing people who are real, like you and me, who are like, this is what it's actually like out there. And I do, I will not lie. I get reminded in a good way to not care what other people think or say from social media, because sometimes you need that pep talk and you don't have a person there to do it. So making sure that not only are you surrounding yourself with people that support you and raise you up, but also think about the content you're absorbing also. It does have a really big impact on us, I think.
Brianna Doe (29:45):
That's a really good point. Yeah. You have to be careful about the content you consume because it is to your point, going to have an impact. And I also think if people are talking badly about you're judging what you're doing, what you're building, that's so boring. Also, do they not have a life? It's so boring to me, and I also, I tell my friends all the time, if somebody has an opinion on what you're doing, question you got to ask yourself is, does this person pay my bills? If the answer is no, you really don't have to care about their opinion, and if they do pay your bills, that's a different conversation. But if you don't pay my bills, I genuinely don't really care much what you think. And that's also why I believe it's important to have, I call it a personal board of directors.
(30:28):
I don't think you should tell everybody what you're up to all the time. You should build this group of folks that you trust who will lift you up to your point, we'll also call you out and just help you grow as a person. I think that's crucial. Then those are the opinions that you can give more credence to, I guess, for lack of a better term, if that's who you listen to and that's who you allow to guide you instead of being just swept along the sea of social media and what other people think of what you're building.
Gayle Kalvert (30:54):
How did you find those people, your personal board of directors?
Brianna Doe (31:00):
I found quite a few on LinkedIn. Of all places, I've made really, really good friends off of there. I just love that platform. So I would say LinkedIn and then as an extension of that, they're communities that I found through there, and I'm not really good at staying active in large Slack communities or Discord channels or anything, but it's finding folks in those communities that I connect with and then building a relationship outside of that.
Gayle Kalvert (31:24):
Okay. Can I admit here that I've actually made it to 2025 without being on Slack?
Brianna Doe (31:31):
That's amazing.
Gayle Kalvert (31:32):
I know.
Brianna Doe (31:32):
What do you use for?
Gayle Kalvert (31:33):
I'm really proud of it.
Brianna Doe (31:35):
What do you use for team communication?
Gayle Kalvert (31:37):
Gchat, Google Gchat.
Brianna Doe (31:39):
Oh, I always forget that's an option. You know what? That's incredible.
Gayle Kalvert (31:43):
It was totally just, it really was circumstance that I left corporate in 2016. I think Slack became popular after, and then when I started Creo, I made the decision we are not on Slack. That seems like a horrible way to live, but I guess we could just get you in here and you would get me all coded and you would be like, Gayle, you can only answer Slacks between eight and 10:00 PM. No, that's too late. 10:00 PM. No, I know wrong. The only hours. No, sorry. I do not work if...
Brianna Doe (32:14):
No, I'm just kidding. We can be in a Slack channel. If you ever join, lemme know.
Gayle Kalvert (32:17):
Well, now you're going to get me in a Slack channel and then I'm going to be going to be a Slack person.
Brianna Doe (32:22):
Fast forward six months, you're just like the most avid Slack user.
Gayle Kalvert (32:25):
Yes.
Brianna Doe (32:26):
You're welcome. We'll talk. We'll talk. Yeah, but that's where you found your people. I hope that was helpful. If you know someone that you go to for this topic, send them my way. After all, we're just figuring this out together. See you next time.