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Travis Bader and Paul Ballard have a fireside chat in a hunting lodge, recounting the many lessons learned from past hunts in the remote Canadian wilderness.
This episode is designed to be a primer for those who are interested in broadening their remote back country adventures and to act as a resource for everyone to ask questions and share their knowledge in the comments section.
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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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Okay, we're sitting in a hunting shack.
Huddle Duck
Lodge Huddle Duck Lodge.
Myself and recurring
podcast guest, Paul Ballard.
I don't remember him from such episodes
as first time Hunters, What Firearm to
look for, what ignition to look for.
And we were talking about fly-in hunts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we thought, you know, we live in
this fantastic province where the hunting
opportunities are, they're second to none.
Yeah.
The opportunities, the this, the
variation in species that's available
to a resident hunter here, but
it's just a matter of getting to
where some of those species are.
Right?
Yeah.
Bc, beautiful British Columbia,
fantastic hunting opportunities.
And I know some people when they think
about hunting, they think, Well, okay, I'm
gonna be in remote, but you see, I wanna
fly into an area, Jenny, for example.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, Jenny, her very first hunt, she
went through her hunter education course,
she met somebody else on the course and.
They decide just to fly in.
I think they flew into the itches.
They went on a caribou hunt.
They were successful, but there's so
much that they learned on that hunt.
That they wished they knew going
into it, which would've saved them
a whole lot of money, a lot of time.
And that's kind of the purpose of
this episode here, is to try to kind
of get people on the right path.
Yeah.
And I, after doing it, I dunno,
15 or 16 times now, I go back
to that first trip and boy, I
learned, uh, substantial amount.
And with every subsequent trip I've
learned, And you know, it, it, you know,
if we can share that bit of experience
with your listeners, with the members,
uh, that are out there, so be it.
And we also offer up, you know,
the opportunity to ask some
questions down the road here and
we can help with answering that.
Totally.
So hopefully we can get
through this in one episode.
If not, it'll be two episodes.
This is an attempt here, I'm
doing some remote recording,
the hunting lodge that we're in.
No power.
So we're operating off battery power
for the lights, battery, power for the
cameras battery, power for the audio.
So it's all a learning experience.
Wood power over here is keeping us warm, a
little wood power to a side.
We'll do a pan around.
We will throw that in as the intro so
people can kind of see what the, uh, the
area here looks like.
And what nobody knows is we have
two d a WGS in the room as well.
So if you hear a little bit of
winding in the background, they
want to get back out to the
marsh.
They do so fly in hunting.
Lot of things to consider.
We're looking at kit, uh, clothing,
food, um, looking at accommodation, sleep
systems, uh, tents we're looking at,
and let's kind of break, break it down,
sort of, you know, the first and foremost
thing to consider is what species do
you want to pursue and what part of
the province do you want to go to.
Mm-hmm.
. So as you mentioned, the itchy Mountains,
which you know, Known for its caribou.
Mm.
Uh, that portion that goes,
uh, region six is still open.
Mm-hmm.
at the north end of the itches and,
and up into the CAS for, for caribou.
So, uh, individual
wants to pursue caribou.
You pick a location and there you go.
Um, I've been fortunate enough to
harvest a caribou on a fly in trip.
I wouldn't, it would've never
occurred to me to go on a, a
drive-in, uh, hunt for that.
And, you know, we, we say in fly in, but,
you know, honestly, fly in, um, Jet boat.
Boat, boat.
Yes.
Almost identical, uh, for, you know, your
weight restrictions, gear restrictions,
space, space, space especially.
It's shocking.
People ought, you know, they look at these
as being the one tru trucks of the, of the
rivers, but they don't have a lot of room.
Right.
They've got a, they are
very, very thirsty beasts.
So a lot of what's taken up in
deck space or storage space is, is,
is 45 gallon drums full of fuel.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
, I mean, a lot of the outfitters
will go out and stash fuel and,
and, you know, have it that way.
But it, it's a similar thing.
So, , There are some
options between the two.
Uh, I have not done a, uh,
Jetboat trip, but I've talked to
enough people comparatively, and
I think I'd stay with aircraft.
Yes, a jetboat can get you in as
long as the water's high enough
a little bit later in the season.
Mm-hmm.
in some cases.
Mm-hmm.
. But that is the issue as you get later in
the season, the trade off is, you know,
the, if the water's going down, but,
you know, the issue being with aircraft
later on in the, in the season frees up.
It's an no-go.
So most of this is gonna happen, uh,
before about the eighth of, of October.
So we're talking for a
northern British Columbia hunt.
Uh, a lot of the seasons start to
open early in August, mid-August.
Mm-hmm.
for the moose, uh, and the elk.
And then with the closures on, you know,
those species actually going much further.
The reality is you gotta plan
on being outta there towards
the very first week of October.
Mm-hmm.
,
when people are planning for these hunts,
they're gonna be taking time off work.
They're gonna get their
friends to coordinate.
Perhaps maybe they're going
all by themselves, which
is a daunting endeavor boy.
Um, but there's a mindset
that goes with it as well.
If you're coming from a built up area,
you're coming from a city environment and
you're used to being able to go to your
corner store and get your conveniences
and having, uh, the competitive market of,
of businesses around being Johnny on the
spot for you, that changes a little bit
when you get start talking to bush pilots.
Well, yes.
And boat captains and weather as
well.
Right.
And as you know, because
you've done it, um, once you.
, once you land there, they're not
coming back to bring you toilet paper.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, if you've forgotten something,
you've gotta, you've gotta have that
contingency plan for everything.
Mm-hmm.
as you go in, you know, many people
go on a drive in hunt and all
of a sudden realize that they've
forgotten something essential.
Uh, one of the parties is gonna
turn around and drive out to go get
whatever's needed and then probably get
some other bonus and then come back.
Mm.
And that option really isn't there.
And particularly with the pilots,
even though you might, uh, take
some form of communication in with
them, it's not a taxi service.
You set a date that you want to get in.
No guarantees that you know the
weather's gonna cooperate, but to
the best of their ability, they'll
get you in, you know, within a day or
two of what you wanted to get in on.
Hmm.
And then of course, the later you
go in the season, it's that coming
out, are you gonna be right on time?
So you always.
Have that big contingency
plan when you plan to do this.
These are the dates I wanna do.
And boss, if I'm not back at work on this
day, we couldn't get out of the bush.
And, uh, I'll be, you
know, back to work whenever
I can.
And that's definitely something
that has to be accounted for.
And a high level of, um, ingenuity, being
able to figure out how to get by with
things that you will inevitably forget
or maybe you brought but stops working or
broke.
I keep going back to redundancy.
So where we've gone wrong
on trips is a rifle broke.
Mm.
I had, uh, yeah, it happened to me once.
Then it's, I think two other folks now
on other, you know, parts of our party.
A rifle that's non serviceable.
Mm.
So that's, you know, if you're gonna go
in with four guys, maybe you can forego
something else for weight to put one
more rifle into the, into the camp so
that you've got, uh, a way to make up.
Or if there's just two of you
going, you share one guy's
rifle once the other one breaks.
But, uh, we were in grizzly country.
I was convinced that the 300 Winchester
Short Magnum was the way to go.
I got one of the very first production
rifles made by that W company.
Mm-hmm.
, I guess it's a different
company now, right?
Yeah.
So I can actually say it, and that
rifle completely failed on me.
Um, about two days into
a 12 or 14 day trip.
What happened?
I couldn't get the bolt open.
So once the bolt closed, I could.
Shy of anything but beating
it with a piece of wood.
Open the bolt, extract the
cartridge, who was in there.
So I had a single shot firearm.
Right.
Uh, it would fire, but then I wouldn't
be able to work the bolt afterwards.
Were you loading
your own ammo or is
that factory ammo?
You know what that was factory ammo.
Okay.
Because that was, I didn't
even have dyes for the short
Magnum, the 300 short Magnum.
This would've been, oh,
probably about 2002.
Okay.
2003 maybe.
And that rifle had only come out,
you know, a year or so before.
And the cartridge was about
five years old by that time.
But I was convinced it was the way to go.
And I put my beloved 30 odd six
aside, which never gave me any
problems and killed a lot of game.
But I took that, uh, that Magnum
plunge and there was my problem.
Well, from my perspective, I think
the very first thing somebody
should be looking at, if they're
planning a fly in hunt or a boat
in hunt, would be just the mindset,
getting the mind in the right place.
And that can be assisted by understanding
some of the variables that are.
And it can also be assisted by going
out and practicing a bit with your kit,
practicing a bit with, uh, developing
some bushcraft skills,
developing bushcraft skills.
Like if you're not a person that's,
that's used to sleeping on the ground.
Hmm.
You need to work on that because
you'll figure it out quick.
I mean, let's, you can go on a
flying trip in the lap of luxury.
Hmm.
It all depends on how much money
you've got because they will,
you know, keep flying more gear
in, more gear in, more gear in.
But come a point, you know, it, it becomes
out of the reach of the common guy.
Mm-hmm.
. And so what I would like to say is
that this is, uh, if you wanna save
up for it, this is as affordable as
a, a 10 day all-inclusive vacation
in Mao land or something like that.
It, it's kind of equivalent.
Mm-hmm.
, it really is.
So if you wanna do, you know, 10 or
12 days in a, in a remote northern
lake, uh, it's about the same as a, a
good all inclusive type of vacation.
Five star.
Of course, of course.
But the accommodations are
not gonna be five star.
If you want five star, then
it's probably gonna cost you.
Almost, it's safe to say
thousands of dollars more.
So I did a, um, fly in into the SPEA area.
Yes.
And, uh, we arrive, we've got our
kit, we've got the right mindset.
We've all been exercising ahead of
time, wearing the packs we're gonna be
wearing, taking 'em up the mountain.
Everybody who's on the trip is
capable and, and confident in
their kit and their abilities.
Uh, accounting for weight, of course,
because weight's gonna be an issue.
And we got in and there's one other
group that came in and the first plane
that landed was only one passenger
on it, and cooler and cooler and tote
and cooler after one after the other.
Bringing in all their beer,
bringing in all their food, all
the luxuries that they want.
Next plane came in, brought some
more passengers and some more kit.
Holy Crow, the amount of
stuff that these people had.
And there's a fellow, um, uh, Mark Twight,
uh, if they, I've talked about him before.
He's gonna be on the podcast
at some point in the future.
Uh, but he has written a book on extreme
alpinism, and he takes an approach, which
I think is, uh, similar, that should
be used for the, uh, person who's gonna
be going out and hunting or doing a
fly-in trip, which is the more kit that
you have with you that's gonna make you
comfortable, can actually jeopardize your
safety, can really slow you down, make
you spend way, much, way more time in the
mountains than you necessarily need to.
And he goes fast, he goes hard, he
goes light, but he turns around.
Like if there's an issue, he'll
turn back down to a base camp and
he'll, he'll make sure that he's,
uh, uh, watching the weather systems.
So he, he takes a very
minimalist approach.
These guys came in, took
a very Maximus approach.
One of the guys forgot his tags,
which was a whole other story on this.
So that's something if people
are listening, read the book.
Make a list.
Make a list, right?
Make sure
you have your tags and, and it,
and that list ends with a check
mark as everything goes onto the,
I went in, uh, to a northern lake.
Uh, we were in for elk, a very steep.
We had met as a group, there was
six, seven in that hunting party.
So we were going in, uh, two
flights with a a de Avalon Otter.
Uh, but we knew what our
weight con restrictions were,
so it made a determination.
We had x number of pounds for the camp.
That means the tents, uh, the ax, the
chainsaw, the big stuff that, you know,
was, you know, for everybody to use.
Mm.
And then each hunter
had a weight allowance.
And let's just say it was your pack.
Rifle was 70 pounds.
Hmm.
So everything you got to bring, besides
yourself, 70 pounds, that meant if you
were gonna bring liquor, if you were
gonna bring, you know, a super duty air
mattress or anything, you had 70 pounds.
Hmm.
We took all of our stuff where one of
the fellows had a set of horse scales
and we were weighing everything, marking
on it, what everybody's weight, where
there's some other stories to this.
But the point I wanna make is
all of our kit was at one place.
We loaded it all into a trailer
at this place, and we let
set off two days later for.
The air base to fly in from.
Sure.
And I kept saying, you know,
people were helping with the kit
and everything else like this.
Everybody seen my boots.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I put a pair of boots in the plane.
I saw your boots go in the plane.
I saw your boots go in the plane.
Well, my boots never
even got in the trailer.
Come on from what we did.
So I had gum boots.
Yeah.
And Crocs.
That was it.
And I, I fit one of the other
guys had a spare pair of boots,
so I kind of could wear those.
They weren't right.
But, you know, it got
me around a little bit.
But that's, that's tragedy.
Like boots that boots is your, you
know, your, your hunting boots.
Is everything on those type of trips.
More kind of on that later.
But you know, you just
planning is everything.
So on the list.
Yeah.
So let's pick, you know, we've kind
of said you're gonna find the spot
you're gonna go, that's gonna be up.
Everybody knows how to do their research.
I hope, you know, you gotta
talk to other hunters.
Uh, you start interviewing these
Packer, Outfitters that are up there.
Mm-hmm.
, uh, in most cases, guides are not
gonna be a huge amount of help
because you're a resident hunter.
Uh, in British Columbia in
particular, you're a resident hunter.
You can go anywhere you want.
In this province, their hunting
concession is not private property.
Mm-hmm.
, uh, and therefore they're not gonna help
you by, uh, wanting you to come into that
cherry spot that they have, you know?
Mm-hmm.
, they've got, they've got money to
make big, big money to make on this,
and they're not interested in a lot
of cases of even entertaining taking
a resident hunter into their camp.
Mm-hmm.
. So you've gotta look at the guy who
makes his money by taking you in there,
whether he takes you in by aircraft.
Jetboat or by even horseback.
Mm-hmm.
, they can't guide you.
They can't put you on animals.
They can say yes from this camp.
The last time I picked somebody up,
they came out with two elk, or they
came out with a sheep or whatever.
They'll go that far, but
they're not gonna, they're
not gonna put you on animals.
That's, that's, that's where
the conflict between a guide
and a packer really exists.
You know what I mean?
You, you know, one of the areas,
So you're talking about doing the
research, talking to different people,
uh, how you're talking to another
hunter, they might not put you on.
Right.
Yeah.
Maybe if they're out of the area
and they've already been in, they
might say, Okay, now that I'm done,
I'll let you know what I've seen.
Um, what some people will do is they'll
go on to like Facebook groups for hikers.
Mm-hmm.
, Reddit groups for hikers.
If you're in an area where it's
gonna be frequented by hikers,
fisherman, or anglers, because
they'll be talking and like
Reddit.
When I said fisherman, I
should have said anglers.
Right.
Well, how politically incorrect of me
.
So.
Uh, you can actually put flags on
it, like in Reddit and say, Give
me an email if this word comes
up, or if they talk about this.
So you go into a hunting forum and, Sorry.
Yeah.
You go into a hunting forum,
you try and put those flags
and everyone's tight lipped.
Mm-hmm.
, you go into a hiking forum and
people will say, Oh, I saw a moose.
You should have seen the antlers,
and, or, I saw whatever it is.
And those are your key words.
And all of a sudden you start getting
emails and you can, you can either
try and suss out the proximity
from where they're talking about,
or you can message 'em directly.
And quite often people are, are happy to
share that with you.
It's, it's all about any hunting trip
is all about the intel before you go in.
Huge, You know, you, you can put
together, you know, the time of
year, the potential for the rut
being on all these other things.
But animals are in pockets.
They're in pockets.
Game is always in pockets.
And if somebody's been seeing a lot, then
that's probably the likely place to go.
Mm.
Um, again, the outfitter, the
packer that's taking you into this
place, , he might or she might want
to take you to a place where it's
a good lake to land, knows there's
some good camps and everything else.
Mm.
But there hasn't been a hair come out of
there in, you know, a couple of seasons.
They're not gonna tell you that.
Right.
They're, you know, they're happy
to say there are animals there.
You're gonna read lots of the blogs
where people are talking about, you
know, the stuff has come out of there.
It's been good.
Traditionally, you read some of the
old books, you know, those are, you
know, some of the other ones, like
right now, Caribou's in Jeopardy.
There's no open, there's no open
season caribou in, in seven.
Mm-hmm.
, you have to go to six for
any open caribou, right?
Mm-hmm.
. So, you know, you're, you're
looking at, uh, or is No, I think.
Seven A, there might be some
caribou still open, but I can
guarantee you somebody in the
comments will let us know.
Yeah.
Uh, within a heartbeat.
Yes.
Because there's nothing more
important than to correct some loud
mouth on a podcast and make sure
that you knew more than he did.
That's, that's, And and can I
just say I don't know at all?
I do not know at all , but I know some
stuff.
There's a, a very interesting, and
this is totally an aside, but the
Guinness Book of World Records Yes.
Was created by the Guinness Beer Company.
Yeah.
Guinness Beer Company says, How do we
get people into bars drinking more beer?
And they said, Well, they like football.
Right.
Soccer.
And, uh, people seem to like trivia.
So maybe if we made a book with trivia in
it, it would keep 'em, you know, eating
pretzels and nuts and drinking beer more.
How do we make this book on trivia?
Well, I guess we gotta figure out who the
fastest runner is and the highest jumper.
Some right person said no, we'll just
make those stats up ourselves cuz people
are more inclined to correct us than
they already give us that information.
So they made up the stats to begin
with and they found that, uh,
they didn't have to pay people for
information cuz people would jump
on the boat and correct 'em right
away.
Okay.
Dear listener, it's up to
you to make this right.
We'll do our best.
Yes.
To go for it.
So where were we?
You pick your location, you pick,
you, you start to interview the
outfitters in the area and some of
them are, are legit and read ratings
that other people have given him.
I tend to look oh five star rating.
You know, 95% of the people that have
rated this guy has given him five stars.
I go immediately start the one
star workup from that mm-hmm.
and just see what kind of things.
And usually, you know, you
can read between the lines.
Somebody's giving 'em one star because I
don't know, they didn't give a champagne
on the flight or something like that.
Yeah.
And, and everybody's got a bad day.
So if, if it looks good, then
that's the person typically.
Um, if you book far in advance, you're
gonna get a discount on the flights.
Mm-hmm.
, it's an awful time in
the world for fuel costs.
When I first did a fly-in
trip, I think it cost under a
thousand dollars for each guy.
I'm not talking just the air for,
I'm talking virtually everything.
Right.
You know, from the fuel to drive
from, you know, the lower mainland
up to the north, uh, to, to take the
flight in, uh, the, you know, one
flight plus an extra flight that was
bringing out the, the harvest with us.
Hmm.
So, you know, To where four
years ago, five years ago.
Must have been five years ago.
The, the last one, uh, we were talk,
probably talking about 2,500 per person.
You're probably looking
at about three grand now.
Yeah.
You know, on a, on a
shared camp situation.
So, you know, expect it to, you know,
put some money away for this thing, but
expect it to be between three and $4,500.
And just what you're comparing that
to is you are now potentially hunting
where people will pay a guide.
$40,000 us to pursue that sheep
on the same mountain that you
now have wide open to you.
Mm-hmm.
. Okay.
They may have the experience and
everything else, but you've now
got the out of pocket spending
to give you that determination
to get up and work that hill.
Mm-hmm.
. And, and there it is.
That's, that's the motivation.
Is the hunting easier on a fly-in trip?
Hell no.
Hell no.
If you've able to go on a moose hunt
and you'd be able to drive a truck
within 200 yards of, you know, the dead
moose and you gotta yard it down the
hill, you know, we've all been there.
Right?
Sure.
That's, And we complain about how tough
that was going through the buck brush
and the, you know, and or you came in
coming out of a logging cut, cut block
and the slash that you climbed over you.
Oh man, that was really tough.
Shoot a moose six miles from where
your base camp is, and every ounce
of that edible portion of that
animal's gotta go on your back.
Mm-hmm.
. And if there's two of you,
that means however many trips.
And usually a moose is, in my experience,
bounded out about nine full packs.
Mm.
And that's a reasonable amount for a,
you know, a good fit man, woman to,
uh, to carry, to, to carry from, from
the place of the kill back to the camp.
Yeah.
You know, and, and then therein, you
know, in these remote situations lies
some of the other, some of the other
issues that, you know, normally you can
leave bones in, in a quarter of moose,
you're not probably gonna do that on
a fly.
No.
And so that, and of course those are
the dogs we hear in the background.
They're, they're pretty eager to
get back out and do a little bit
of hunting, but, uh, well, who's
not, but you know, it is hunting
season.
It is.
But there's some useful information
here, and I figure if we just
take a little bit of time.
We'll have an posterity
for people for a long time.
I think so we've, we've kind
of, you know, shot around.
So now we've, we've picked our
species, we've found an outfitter.
The questions to ask, Okay, what type
of equipment are they gonna take in?
When I say equipment,
what, what's the aircraft?
You know, what's the weight
carrying of the aircraft?
So usually like the, you
know, the, the 1 180 2 s Yeah.
180 2 Ssta.
That's about 600 pounds plus the pilot.
Hmm.
So you get 2, 250 pound guys, there's
500 pounds, you get another a hundred
pounds of gear, that's all you're allowed.
Mm-hmm.
. So you gotta think about that.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, often, uh, people
going in, in, in the 180 2 s.
they might have to go two flights
in like that to, to get it.
Or now you start looking who's
flying a beaver de javelin.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the de javelin beaver is about a
thousand pounds plus the, plus the pilot.
And then you go up to the otter, which
is like the one ton truck of the sky.
Mm-hmm.
, it's about 2000 pounds, you know, and,
and it just goes on and on and on.
And they, you know,
basically you can't cheat it.
There's a great big scale
right there on the dock.
Mm-hmm.
. And you climb on that
scale, they weigh you.
So, you know, and we've had guys
trying to cheat stuff, uh, you
know, by loading up their pockets
and the pilot weighs you before you
get on and they're pretty sharp.
Cuz honestly, people's lives depend
on, on that, that, uh, you know,
critical balance of the aircraft,
how much weight, you know, on there.
Mm-hmm.
. So it is serious.
So you picked your outfitter,
you got your weight.
Start thinking now.
You gotta start planning on equipment.
Of course, first thing
is going to everybody.
Well, this is the caliber
rifle I'm gonna take.
This is the scope that's
gonna be on it, eh?
Think about safety and, and you
know your sur ultimate survival.
Mm-hmm.
, because the potential is there.
The weather turns.
The atmospheric river, as we all
experience now, shows up and you're gonna.
Days, week longer.
There's been guys that, you know,
have told stories of being in two
weeks longer than what they expected.
There's been guys who have had, you
know, the sound of a helicopter is
the first thing they hear, and a
helicopter is coming in as a rescue.
Right.
And, and I mean, that's the obligation
that the, you know, the, the, the packer
has, if they can't fly in a helicopter
can take much worse weather, but none
of your hunting gear is coming out.
Mm-hmm.
, you're coming out.
You're coming out.
That's it.
And if the helicopter comes in,
uh, you know, you better spray
your rifles down with lots of oil,
soak up some your sleeping bags.
So maybe in the spring you can
go back and get your stuff.
But you know that, that
really is the truth.
They can't transport your
rifle, they can't transport
any of your meat, any of that.
They're gonna just bring you
in a limited amount of gear
out if the helicopter goes in.
Well, you've had
experiences where you've been out and
a couple days are going by with other.
Pilot coming in.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You want to try that one on for size.
So, you know, you're counting down
and of course everybody's getting
a little bit on everybody's nerves.
That's another point.
Yeah.
You, and, and that's the
thing you need to pick.
If you're gonna go with a group,
you better, you know, like the
guys that you're going with, a lot
of cases, a solo hunter, you're
probably in love with yourself.
So it's gonna be, you know, there's
no question of when you're gonna
eat, how far you're gonna go each day
because you're making those decisions.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, as soon as you add that next
person in, then there's always an issue.
And it's a good idea to, to pick
somebody that you've been on a
few trips with before and you know
what each other's limitations are.
And then that's the other thing
too, is you set that, um, hey, if
I get under your skin, you gotta
tell me there's nothing worse.
That people that do slow boils, you know,
underneath, and then all of a sudden
the pot, you know, Comes apart, right?
You know the, the lid blows
off and there's a big fight.
It's when you say, Look, you gotta
stop doing whatever you're doing
cuz it's starting to really bug
me and don't be afraid to say it.
And the other guy's gotta have enough.
The other person's gotta have
thick enough skin to accept that.
That's a really good point when
going and choosing the people
you're gonna be with because doesn't
matter if you guys are best buds.
When you're going days without food
and you're lugging your whole life
on your back up and down hills.
Well,
well, here's how it goes.
Attitudes can change.
You know, come down at a sheep camp,
you know, after one guy's success.
We've been down there.
Uh, we're in base camp Harvest a
oh, a moose, two moose, another
elk, uh, and a caribou on that trip.
So everything's looking good.
Uh, we've gotta, you know,
we're coming out heavy.
There's no question about it.
Uh, we're all set up.
This is the exit day.
The lake we're on is beautiful.
Hmm.
Bluebird skies.
The weather's nice.
There's no wind or anything else.
Collapse the base camp, pack everything.
Get everything down to the beach.
You ready for the aircraft to arrive
and tick, tick sitting around, get your
pocket books out, you're reading, waiting,
join a little bit of sun sight seeing,
and four o'clock comes that there's,
and there's no sound of an aircraft.
Mm-hmm.
, pull the tents out, go back up,
get a fire going, pull the stoves
out, have a meal and everything
else for four nights doing that.
Mm-hmm.
and that's really where you saw,
you know, there's, the food is now
down to, you know, freeze diet food.
There's, you know, the, you
know, there stuff's gone.
Right?
Or you're down to sort of minimal ration.
So this is the thing, always plan,
you know, for that unexpected.
So again, with the redundancy thing,
yeah, I've got enough food for 10 days,
let's make it enough food for 15 days.
And if, if things start to happen,
then we know we can sort of start
rationing what remains, uh, What's really
different now though, is the opportunity
to take communications with you.
We first started going there
was sat phones, but they were
so free, inexpensive, nobody
even thought to take 'em.
Our emergency signal was an orange
tarp on the beach, and hopefully if
the pilot flew over, they'd see it.
So we're younger.
Uh, and fortunately nothing
big ever happened, but I
kind of think back on that.
I couldn't do it anymore.
So, uh, having that ability
to communicate with the pilot.
by satellite link of some form and they
can either text you or you've got your
so phone to say, Hey look, we're not
coming in for, you know, several days.
That's a, it's a nice
heads up to have spot
in reach Zo.
Yeah.
The new iPhones have satellite
communications on them for sos.
But there's one thing that you mentioned
that I thought was kind of an interesting
point just to kind of hammer home
when we're talking about the group,
the people that you're going up with.
Yeah.
Uh, it's like getting into a contract.
People say, Well, I got this
contract in place so if things
go wrong, I can sue you.
Well, no, you've got a contract in place
so you don't have to reach that point.
Cuz everybody knows the ground rules
going into the, the whatever it is that
they're entering into a contract on.
So entering it in with your mates,
you're gonna be out in the back country
with and saying, Look at, here's
some things that really annoy me and
I'll give you a heads up if it starts
happening or if I haven't eaten in a
while, I can get cranky or here's some.
Or the other thing too is to have somebody
that can intervene when two of the
people are starting to go loggerheads
the, the third person in the group.
You know, if you have more than
two on that, on that, uh, on that
hunt, that can be helpful as well.
Mm.
I mean, I gotta be honest, the
guys I've flown in with, um, shy a
few in the first part, and then a
couple of the bigger groups, like
sometimes these things get outta hand.
I think four is an ideal number.
Mm two is an ideal number.
You start going beyond that and getting
five or six people and, and what
tends to happen is it's just, we just
throw money at the, at the packer and
they just take another flight, take
another flight, take another flight.
And we've had, you know, as many as seven
and I think eight actually in one flight.
And that was just too much.
Mm.
First of all, you get too
many people work in the.
So you, it's almost like being in,
you know, the, the road access areas.
There's so many other hunters.
I mean, the area is vast that
you're in, but there's only
so far you can travel, right?
Yeah, exactly.
So, yeah, you know what's good if
a portion of the group is gonna
spike out and, and put a spike
camp, you know, for sheep or, or
something like that, where the other
guys are gonna focus on hell yeah.
That, that works.
That works.
Uh, and there's a potential, So you've
got a great base camp for the, the sheep
hunters to come back to, you know, for,
uh, for, for, you know, taking care
of their hides and this sort of stuff.
There's, there's all, you know, some
security in heaven, big numbers like that.
Everybody's got more eyes out for,
you know, for, for predators if
they're gonna cause you a problem.
If bears are gonna come around,
that's all you know, it's okay.
But boy, when you decide to go,
you gotta make sure you're gonna
love those people, you know?
A little bit more than you think.
Well, this one group, I'm talking
to Bo that brought all the kit in.
Uh, we got up early in the
morning, we're hiking up the
mountain and, you know, going slow.
We got our packs on, We got
what we need for the day.
We're just gonna do a quick day, Wrecky
check, check the place out in behind us.
These guys come running up,
they're up drinking all night.
So they woke up a little bit
later and they're in shorts and
runners and they're running up
the mountain and there's my son.
He was like, Oh, are they gonna
find the animals before we do?
And we told him, I said,
Don't worry about it.
You just, you just watch.
We just keep plugging through.
We do our thing.
We'll be good.
Right.
Lots of.
Anyways, we gaining elevation,
gaining elevation, getting colder.
Turned into a bit of, this is in August.
A uh, snowstorm comes up.
One guy is just out on
the trail by himself.
The rest of the group were in, split
up and then went around the side.
He looks like he's almost in tears
cuz he's tired and hungry and cold and
doesn't know where the other people
are and says he wants to go home.
This is day one for them.
He says they're already fighting,
they're already arguing.
And these guys were best buds in the city.
The mountains will bring out things and
you, which you might not know of, maybe
go for a trip with your buddies ahead
of time.
Oh yeah.
And we've, you know, we've had
that happen on a couple trips where
you didn't know some of the guys.
And boy did you get a surprise.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, and, and that's not good.
That's not good.
So yes, it's good to do a couple
of, you know, Four truck hunts where
if you do have that fight, you just
get in your drunk leaves , you know?
Yes.
That, that's, that kind of kind of
works, I mean, your relationship
and my, you know, with mm-hmm.
our relationship is one that I don't
think, you know, we're going to, we're
gonna do, do this one day together, but
our, so far our hunts have been great.
We'll be just fine.
We just, you know, I know that, you
know, we understand each other's quirks.
Gotcha.
You know?
Yes.
I like that.
But, uh, it is, it is important to
know the group that you're going
with, getting back to it so you know
the group that you're going with.
It's not a taxi service.
You're gonna be in there
for a set period of time.
Weather plays a huge role.
Yeah.
Well, and then there's the other
thing too, when you're sitting there
about to make a play on a nice bull
caribou and, uh, that you spotted
from the outhouse in the that
exists up there, believe it or not.
Um, so you run back, get your, your
pack board on, and you, you get your
rifle and you're starting to go and
all of a sudden, hey, There's our pilot
coming in, we've only been in for a
few days, and he comes in and he's
got a weather report in his hand and
he says, You guys, you really need to
think about how much longer you stay.
You either come out now or you're
gonna be in for days, days and
days longer than what you expect.
So that was one of those unfortunate
times we had to call it, you know,
call it short and, and go out.
So, and
I'll add to that, if your pilot comes
back and says that these bush pilots,
particularly in British Columbia,
are a different breed, they are
pay special heed to what they say,
they're built a little bit different.
Yeah.
And, and I'll give an example.
We had a, um, uh, a fly in for
fishing and, uh, flying into a lake.
This guy's got, uh, he flies into
this area for the Outfitters for
Moose, and he built his own little
cabin out there for fishing.
He's got an accord with him.
I won't bring anybody on my own in for
hunting, just for fishing because I
bring your guys in for, for hunting.
Yeah.
And.
So anyways, he had a, we've flown
with him before on other trips
and he had a helper this time.
This guy was really nice, really
friendly and helped load the, the
plane up and got everything ready.
Pilot comes down, we're flying off,
and, and, uh, first thing I said, I
said, Well, what happened to your 180 2?
And he's like, Well, you know, I
don't mean to scare you, but these
things break all the time, right.
, they're, uh, they're old planes.
And so it goes into this whole thing
and then we're talking about his
helper and said, um, how fantastic it
was and how much it's gonna help him.
And, and as we're flying in, he
keeps taking pictures and I'm
looking around, I'm like, There's
nothing really photographic scenic
that he's taking pictures of.
So finally I say, What are
you taking pictures of?
He's like, Oh, just the weather patterns.
I want to show the new guy kind
of what it looks like and okay.
And what he can expect.
And as we're flying further and further,
we'll get about an hour and a half into
it and he says, Okay, next bend, we're
gonna see what our window looks like.
I don't know, but the weather, to me, the
weather looked pretty darn good, right?
And he says, I don't know about this.
We might not be able to get in.
Okay, fair enough.
Lands us quick, All of our stuff off.
Bang, he's gone.
Week later he comes, picks us up.
Of course, during this time,
the fridge that we had supposed
to have there didn't work.
So thankfully we could catch fish
because all of our fresh food
ends up only lasting so long.
It's another consideration.
Kit can break, picks us up after, um, my
seat breaks in the plane, and we figure a
way to kind of get that thing together as
we're, I'm doing a permanent ab crunches.
Were coming out here.
I'm asking him, I said, Well,
how's the new pilot working out?
He says, Oh, he.
Like, what?
What do you mean he quit?
He's said, Yeah.
I came back, I showed him those
pictures that I took and he said
he didn't have the stomach for it.
He flew helicopters
commercially for, uh, skiing.
He flew to havelin beavers
for logging companies.
But this is 10 minutes
up, 10 minutes down.
This is 20 minutes here.
These bush pilots are going
out one, two hour out.
Whether systems change things can.
They're built differently.
If they come in with a caution, don't
think that perhaps you know better than
them because there's a good possibility.
Their threshold for danger and
fear in the air exceeds yours.
Right.
And that's, and that's the thing.
So if they say they don't wanna
fly, cuz we've flown and you're
thinking really and Yeah.
And then, uh, you, you know, you,
you want to get a hand on that air
sickness bag before you hit in because
when that thing like loses, you watch
the al Alternator just dialing like
crazy and, and you know, you've just
lost 400 feet just like that and you
know, your stomach is still up there.
Yeah.
It it and it, one kind is for a flying
trip sitting in the back seat and there's
an alarm that goes off in the aircraft
that, you know, just keeps going on
and on and on whenever they, soon as
he started up, I don't know what it
is, but it's nothing to worry about.
Every plane does it and you can hear
him cuz we all have headsets and, you
know, Mike's on and, and he, he's going.
Can anybody else hear that alarm ? You
know it, and it is, it's unnerving
to, to people to, to go up there.
But it is worth it.
The scenery from the
flight is just stend us.
Mm-hmm.
spotting game on the tops of
these mountains as you're hitting.
That's amazing.
It's just, it's worth the
price of admission, you know?
Absolutely.
Seeing where, and then, and then coming
in and he says, See that lake up in
the, you know, in, you know, at the 11
o'clock there, that's where we're going.
And you go, Wow.
And it's like a, a pinpoint, you know, And
you near it, you near it and you start to
descend and just seeing the trees start to
rise up and then crystal clear lake that
you'll land on, there's nothing like it.
Yeah.
It's not easy hunting.
, but it's great hunting and
it's a great experience.
And you know, the beaches up
there that looked like something
outta The Bahamas and some of
these lakes, you can't believe it.
Sometimes you get in there and it's like
the, I remember the 4th of October and
of course I deal in Fahrenheit 98 degrees
for, you know, midday at one day up
there where it had been down well below
zero for a week before we were up there.
Just weird, you know, weather is,
is a thing and, and it's a, it's
an issue, but getting back to it.
Pick a good pilot.
Pick a pilot with a safe record, Pick
a pilot who is serious about what he's
doing, the weights, all those things.
Um, these guys are in the tourism.
when they're not taking hunters and
anglers in, they're taking site, Sears
in, you know, they're, they, you know,
they're, they're up to talking to you.
Mm.
Quite often, you know, in, if you go one
of the outdoor hunting or angling shows,
a lot of times these pilots will be there.
They'll have maps, they'll have
ideas, they'll have suggestions.
So once you've made that
selection, we're digressing.
I was talking a little bit about
before you plan what kind of
kit you want to go in, you want
to have that safety equipment.
So communication now is everything.
Mm.
Once you've figured out what you want
to take, be a SAT phone, uh, one of the,
you know, text type communicators, any
of those, they all seem to work good.
I know you and I are both using inReach.
Mm-hmm.
, uh, shameless plug for them.
Uh, but Garmin has got a great product
there and it works and it works well.
Lio is another one that's been rated
quite well based on how they work.
Uh, downside is you need to, it'll
send an SOS or I think a couple of,
uh, predetermined messages, but you
need to have your phone integrate and
if you want to type something out.
Right.
Whereas the inReach can, it'll
fail back to the instrument, so.
Right.
It's nice to have your, your, your
smartphone beside you and then they
just wirelessly way easier way to type.
Yes.
So the brick, I think is another one Yes.
That people talk about.
We see that being used,
but we're regardless.
You should plan on that.
Mm-hmm.
and.
If not, if all else you can
rent a SAT phone, you can.
Right.
You know, they're
available at the airport.
You can order one, they deliver it by,
you know, whatever, Amazon or whatever
delivery company is there, and then you
just mail it back after the thing's over.
One
caveat though, um, you've rented
SAT phones, I've rented SAT phones.
Uh, they don't always
work.
They don't work very, Yeah.
They're surprising.
And then that's the other thing too,
is, you know, figure out which network
it's on because, uh, um, and I don't
wanna name names, but you know what,
you know, they're, they said the pilot
looks that goes, Oh, you've bought.
That one.
Those aren't really good up here,
So if you're planning on
bringing this, that phone, ask
the pilot what they're using.
Mm.
Okay.
Ask him if he has the ability, if you're
gonna send texts to him or her, uh,
or are you gonna have to do it through
a third party or something like that.
Mm-hmm.
. And then all in all,
remember that SOS on there.
That's calling out, you know, the, the
World Search and Rescue Network for you.
And it's not gonna go
directly to the pilot.
That's important.
So communication, very important.
A lot of guys get up there and when you
have that emergency cell phone, they're
phone and home and everything else.
Now you get homesick and
people wanna go home.
Right, Right.
So, it is what it is, you know.
Sure.
You know, having that can be, it can be,
it can be a bit of a curse, but boy, in
the, in the event of an emergency, it's.
Talk about communication
first fly and trip nine 11.
We were the first flight the
pilot was legally allowed to do
after the grounding of nine 11.
So I think we went in on the 14th
or the 15th of September and the
party that we were bumping off of
the lake that we were going to.
So the pilot, typically the way they work
is they like to take you in somewhere
where they're picking somebody else up
and it may be actually on a direct spot.
So we went in and these were a bunch of
firefighters, some retired firefighters
and, and a, you know, with a big link.
And it was, you know, my nine 11 moment
was, was, you know, telling these guys
that the World Trade Center had come
down both towers and, and a great loss of
life amongst the firefighting community.
And it was just, I get it,
goosebumps now when I think about it.
It was just a moving moment.
But it's all about, you know, the
point being communication, you know?
Right.
And, uh, and go for there.
Radios, I don't think are
gonna be the right thing.
You've gotta, you gotta really know how
to put some kind of monster antenna up.
And you're gonna be
like, if you know what you're doing with
the radio, maybe, but most people don't.
And that's extra weight
that you're bringing.
Yeah.
And, and that's the, the thing
with the inre, it's idiot proof.
Now you gotta remember.
You gotta finite battery life
on these rechargeable devices.
A power pack may now be the thing that
you need to consider in your weight load.
Hmm.
Uh, so even these little power packs
that'll jumpstart your car and things
like that, a lot of them will give
you sufficient charges for, you
know, a attendee or, uh, trip so
that you can keep your devices, both
your, you know, cuz who's bringing
a camera anymore, except you,
Most people are gonna bring
their, their cell phone in, right?
To take pictures.
So you gotta charge that up.
Um, you know, it's, it's not gonna be
using a lot of data, but, you know, you
want to get those nice files on the, on
your phone, uh, the beautiful scenery.
And so many phones take better
pictures than any of the cameras,
and they're light and easy to carry.
Small solar system, uh, solar panel.
Uh, a battery system that can, you
can just leave out to charge up.
So you don't plug your device
directly into the solar panel.
Yeah.
And then you can come back and
charge up your phone, which is
a fantastic navigational tool.
We'll see how the iPhone,
whatever it is now, fifteens,
fourteens to do with their set.
The,
the thing is, if you leave your phone on
the whole time, it's, you know, it doesn't
have to be a satellite communication.
I mean, it's just doing it by Yeah.
You know, whatever voodoo
lives with inside that machine
that I don't understand.
But yeah, it could be used for navigation.
Your maps and everything
are, are on there.
So we've got communication.
We just talked about
navigation, uh, map and compass.
Never run outta batteries.
Right.
But
you have to know
how to use them.
Right.
And, and I am really fortunate
because, you know, more than 50
years of using maps and compasses.
I don't really feel the obligation
to use my GPS to navigate.
Right.
I feel totally confident with just
the map and compass and you know,
showing people the wonders of how to
do, you know, a resection on a map.
Yeah.
With your compass to show
exactly where you are.
And when people are saying, Well
I can't do that, and they're
checking their gps and sure enough
the coordinates are the same.
Mm-hmm.
and then whip the GPS lights
go out and what do you do now?
Right.
And that was one of the things
that I noticed when we first
started carrying GPS on.
Any hunting trip, they weren't
rechargeable and they just
sucked those batteries up.
Mm-hmm.
You probably had to carry pounds
worth of, you know, AA batteries to
keep putting back into your little,
you know, what was it, the 3 360
Garmin 360 or something like that.
Sure.
You had the little tiny screen on it, but
like I say, map and compass, the eTrex.
Yeah.
It's gotta, Yeah.
eTrex.
Yeah.
That's what it was.
Uh, but you gotta have your map encompass.
Yeah.
So that's your backup to your
whatever electronic navigation and
communication you're gonna have.
The map encompass is there.
Mm.
Your backup to your communication in the
case of an emergency should have flares.
Yep.
Signal panel.
Yep.
You know
your compass will have a
mirror.
You're Exactly.
And that's what, but you want
to bring another mirror cuz you
get those nice little ones that
you can aim, but nonetheless.
Redundancy is everything.
So as they, you know, I like to say in
the tactical operators world, one is none.
Yeah.
Two is one.
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah, it's true.
We had a, you know, pro propane stove.
We were relying on a two bearer
propane stove in our, uh, base camp.
And everybody of course had their, you
know, their little, uh, pack stoves.
I don't think, uh, they had, um, what's
the, the one, the jet boils right then.
But we were using little, you know, white
gas pump up stoves and stuff like that.
And of course our propane stove crapped
out because propane, you know, again,
you run that risk, you know, if you,
it, and it was actually the stove,
the jets and the stove wouldn't work.
So we did, you know, another eight,
nine days of cooking just on the little
backpack stoves, which was fine, you
know, Well in the whole one is none.
Two is one.
There is a limit to what you
can haul on the plane to what
you can haul on your back.
Right.
And so there, there has to start
building some non-negotiables.
If you're going up with a, a
team, a group, you can start
bringing in more equipment.
Someone can have the, uh, the major
parts of a tent, let's say, and the other
person can have, uh, the cookware and
you can start sharing amongst each other.
And it wouldn't make sense for everyone
to, to double up on those things.
Um, but there are some things that you
definitely would want to double up on.
Yeah.
What would you say are non-negotiables
that you want to make sure that you, you
have sorted, you have maybe doubles of?
Uh,
I, I definitely two cooking systems,
cuz that did prove out okay to say,
Oh, I can cook everything on a fire.
What if you can't get a fire going?
If it's that wet or you're so high
in the alpine, you have no fuel.
Right?
And, and that's, that's the other thing.
So you get up into a lot
of these sheep camps.
There, there there's no fire
that's stove only operations.
So you, you know, mean.
It's crazy in the north, the, you
know, the, the, the weather or not,
I shouldn't say the ecosystems from,
you know, one range to the next.
You go to one and it's
like the go be desert.
You go to another and it's, and
you go like, Man, I didn't think
anybody could be that wet up here.
You know?
Yes.
And, and it's just shocking.
It's, it's, and also, I mean,
you can actually walk from one
area to another and be surprised.
Mm-hmm.
You know, in, in your hunt as to how.
Mountain weather changes, I would
definitely have two cooking systems.
Okay.
I would definitely have, in addition
to my shelter, backup shelter, because
we have been in hurricane force winds.
Yes.
And if you, you know, went cheap
and didn't get a decent tent
and that thing blows, its mo
rings, you're done, you're done.
Then shelter, shelter is everything.
So you need, you know, a si tarp or
something of that nature that you
can put together a hasty shelter.
If you lose your, your principal
shelter, it won't be pretty,
but you'll be
alive.
That's right.
You've gotta get out of that wind,
out of that rain, out of that storm.
Um, we had a.
The wind was going so hard,
broke a, a fiberglass tent pole.
Right.
And it broke between the joints.
And, you know, you'd think,
How am I gonna fix this?
I fired off a cartridge, 30 out six.
I took my leather man out.
I worked for quite a while,
but I cut the hat off.
Yeah.
And then I pushed the two pieces
into the 36 cartridge and then
taped it up with duct tape.
And, you know, that held wasn't pretty.
That's ingenuity.
And that goes back to what we were
talking, the mindset and ingenuity
at the beginning.
Yeah.
You get, you should be prepared.
So, but, uh, the other thing that
I definitely have a backup on, you
don't have to have the same kind
of boots, but you certainly need
to be able to preserve your feet.
Mm.
So you should.
a change of footwear.
Okay.
Quite often, you know, if you're
gonna be hunting off of a lake, you
might be taking water outta the lake.
So a pair of these, you know,
mock, uh, Irish setter, bogs, I'm
trying to get hit all the big ones.
Yeah.
You know, Hunts worth all
these, you know, high top.
Rubber boots that have a
bit of insulation, that
have a nice tight ankle fit.
So in a pinch you can pack with them, you
can walk and everything else like that.
I'm not talking, you
know, big old gum boots.
Yeah.
The old army and navy red bottom
black tops that used to get when
you went back to school in the fall.
, Yes.
Yeah.
Uh, but you know, those good quality
rubber boots to back up your mountain
boots and, and you need of course, you
know, a good sturdy set of, of boots.
So, yeah.
And in addition to, I, I just, If you
can only take the one pair of boots, you
still gotta save your feet at some point.
Crocs are something Crocs.
Yeah.
Crocs are sandals and Crocs weigh nothing.
You could even get, you know, those
other ones that are now super air
light and, and things like that.
And those are absolute life
savers on a, you know, when you've
been on your dogs all day, you
gotta get your boots dried out.
You gotta get, uh, get
your feet back in shape.
Those, those can save.
Well, river crossings true
enough.
Roll up the, the take your pants off Yep.
And throw your CROs on.
Save your feet.
Because if you, if you bugger
your feet, you're your trip.
That's right.
Yeah.
Barefooting across the
stuff is not the way to go.
It's, it's not If you can avoid it Yeah.
And everything is sharp.
Of course.
If it didn't look sharp, you're gonna
find just how sharp it was as soon
as you put your bare feet in there.
No, I, The cro Yeah.
So footwear, Absolutely.
You've gotta have a backup on that.
Mm.
Um.
The rifle we kind of talked about.
Not super essential.
Most rifles, you know, and, and
that maybe was the error I made.
That rifle had basically been
sighted in, broken in, but it hadn't
been used on, That was the first
hunt that rifle went, uh, went on.
Mm.
It didn't bloody anything on that.
And I was, you know, we were
in grizzly country as well.
Yeah.
So you, you may need
that firearm for that.
So you, you
know what else I will bring with me
Slingshot and a small spincaster,
and I don't pack 'em with me.
I'll sew 'em someplace, but I know if I
need food, hopefully I can catch fish.
If I'm in an area, hopefully
I can get a, a tar again or,
or or something.
Yeah.
It's, it's funny how I, you know, the poor
fool hand has been called the fool hand.
And, and I remember as a kid, you know,
listening to all these Hunter saying,
Oh yeah, they just stand, there you go.
Whack 'em with a stick.
. I've never seen one.
I could've whacked with a stick.
I've seen a couple that maybe if I
had have been, you know, highly adept
with a throwing stick, might have
been able to get, you might have got
'
em with, uh, throwing knife younger.
Yeah.
And um, it actually hit
backwards, but it did the trick.
Yeah.
And, um, and a but, uh, most of
the time you just gotta be either
a really good shot or really lucky
when you're throwing these things.
Because if you're not,
they're, they're, they're
up and they're gone.
Right.
And, but that is, that's a
great way to supplement your
diet while you're on there too.
So, you know what, I'd be more
inclined to put a 22 in there
somewhere, get, you know, Yeah.
You get a little undersized kid
size 22 doesn't weigh anything.
Yeah.
You know?
Good point.
And, and the ammos cheap.
Little game getter.
Yeah.
Little game getters is worth heaven.
Yeah.
I mean, if you, you know, tag out,
of course, then you're gonna be able
to supplement, uh, with the, the
tenderloins or something of that nature.
You know, you can eat the tongue,
the heart, all that is more
protein while you're there.
Uh, but, uh, like you say, you know,
nothing more frustrating to be on
one of these hunts and maybe it's
a, it's a down day, you've gotta do
some firewood gathering or whatever.
It's handy to pack that little 22 around.
I might, you know, get some ditch
chickens as Adam Bach would like to say.
uh, and uh, bring those back.
I think it's disrespectful
to call 'em ditch chicken.
Ditch chicken.
I just like to call them delicious.
Delicious.
Yeah.
So, uh, what we eat when we're
on a fly in hunt is something
that if you're expending a lot of
energy, you're gonna need calories.
And some people say you can't
eat enough calories to make
up for what you're expending.
I don't know if that's true, but I think
when it comes down to what you're able to
pack in your options start to get limited.
So knowing, like typically I like sweet
things, I got a bit of a sweet tooth.
If I'm in the mountain, remember one
of my first times going out and I
pack some sweets cause I figured, you
know, it's gonna be some good energy.
I had a hard time choking this stuff down.
After a while, I, I found I craved
fatty and salty foods just to try
and re I guess, replace electrolytes.
Hawkins cheeses for me have
been a life saver cuz it gives
you some food in your building.
They're nice
and light to pack along.
They're a little bulky, but yeah.
Oh, I, I love 'em.
I love 'em because of the, the amount
of, um, calories that they, they end
up giving you and then like gummies, a
little, um, gummy that you can put in your
mouth and you're hiking or you're moving.
It just kind of keeps your, uh, your
blood sugar level up and it keeps
the attitude in the right place.
Yeah.
You know, and, and we planned on going
on these trips, you know, lots of times.
And the, and the idea is
a lack of refrigeration.
So taking fresh food is not necessarily
an option, but often it's the fresh
food that has the higher caloric
content to it to get you through.
So, Apples, dried apples, dried fruits,
you know, those are all fairly high in
the sugar and the carbohydrates that
you need for that boost of energy.
Hmm.
But you're right in the long run,
it's the fats that are gonna keep
you warm and, and, and go through.
So if you can get, you know, that,
um, attitude, I mean freeze dried
food, you look, and the calories
on those are only like five or 600.
Right.
You know, per package, which is
making you think of something.
Right
now, it's making me think
of the freeze dried food.
We got a bunch of this Silvercore
freeze dried food, which I've been
testing out different recipes and
different kinds, and I should actually
find it, I think I brought some
around here with me somewhere, but,
uh Oh, it's in the kitchen, is it?
Yeah.
Yeah, we'll
pick it out after.
Yeah, we can add that in.
But, but that's, you know, one
of the things is that's great.
It's super convenient.
It feels good to, you know, to.
, heat that up and get that in you.
And it's easy to, you
know, there's no cooking.
You just pour some boiling water in there,
let the thing set, do whatever it is.
Put your tent up.
Well, well, you know, the it
reconstitutes and then you eat, and
it's a real kind of filling, hearty,
flavorful thing to get in you mm-hmm.
, but you're not really
getting the calories.
So power bars and cookie bars and, and
all of those things need to keep going
in you while you're going through mm-hmm.
Um, you know, that you gotta figure
what your average person's gonna burn.
You know, a man's gonna a couple
thousand calories in a day.
You go and you start going up, you
know, near vertical mountainsides,
carrying 60 pounds in your back
at times, you know, all the other
physical exertion and, and keeping.
Right.
Because you don't burn calories
when you come in and you have
a beautiful fire next to you.
You know, we're not burning
calories now, but just sitting
glassing is burning calories.
Mm-hmm.
. Cause your body's trying to keep itself
warm and there is a, a degree of a
climatization that you will find too if
you, if you really haven't spent, you
know, my whole life has been, you know,
going from living in a house to going out
there and hanging out in the outdoors for
a while, and I always feel a little cold
in the first bit, but then it goes away.
You get used to it.
Right.
And then you come home and you can't,
like, , I can't stand this way too hot.
The only thing I like
is the running water.
Yeah.
When you get home, the hot
running water, that's good.
But you know, sometimes it's just too hot.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and you struggle with that.
But once you get a climatized,
why it's happening is your
body's burning those calories.
So you gotta, you gotta keep it up.
You really gotta, you gotta pick the food.
There's lots and lots of
great, uh, YouTube channels
talking about that.
Okay.
So I got up, checked it out.
Uh, calories 1010 per serving, and you
will not, you know, and not ashamed.
It's
delicious.
Delicious Dellys.
Yeah, absolutely.
Ds
Shameless plug, because it is a
Silvercore product, but that's
sure far exceeds anything.
You're gonna find, uh, you
know, at, at some of the other
places you might shop at.
I mean, I think talking about food
would be a whole podcast on its own.
And I, I'm gonna, I've got some
ideas of people that you should
bring on for that, uh, that are,
you know, really got it figured.
And, you know, that out's gonna
come from, you know, the, the
backpackers handbook, right?
Mm-hmm.
, you know, those, those guys
got that stuff figured.
So you wanna hunt.
That's one thing you want
to hunt out of a backpack.
You should talk to a backpacker and
see what the, what they do, right?
Okay.
All right.
So we're talking about things that
would essential, uh, for redundancy.
Shelter, fire starting.
Mm-hmm.
. Okay, now, Yeah, bring some paper and
bring some fire starting cubes for sure.
But make sure that you know how to
make a fuzz stick with your knife.
Yep.
Make sure that when your Bic lighter runs
out and alls you got is spark that you
know how to, you know, that you've got
some form of tinder that will get your
kindling to go, you know, uh, setting
f a fire and, you know, and processing
fire wood on these trips is important.
I've gone with only a bow saw, right.
And an ax.
Um, and that's going light.
And you know what?
You got plenty of time on your hands,
but it is a calorie expenditure.
Uh, if you've got enough
food, then that's fine.
Then, then, you know, go, because a
lot of these, like silky, silky boy
saws, Those things just fly through,
you know, stuff that's up to six inches
and it's really not a great amount
of effort that you need to do that.
Uh, but having a little, you know,
14 inch bar chain saw has gone
on a lot of flying trips with us.
Okay.
And,
uh, well, just the
dog here.
Yeah.
He's pulling on my wire.
Nope, I can't say that . The, uh, but
having a chainsaw has, has been great
because in a lot of cases, you know,
that's your, you know, coming home at the
end of it, a long days hunting is nice,
having that fire at night to keep you warm
and, you know, in the social side of the
fire, but definitely redundancy and your,
you know, your, your fire preparation
tools and you know, if you're gonna bring
power saw, then you need an ax, you know?
Mm-hmm.
, because when the, you run outta gas
for the power saw, or you pinch the
bar in a tree, now you've got nothing.
So an ax is important.
Mm-hmm.
. You can use the ax to get the saw
out of the tree and all these things.
Sure.
Um, knives.
Right?
We all have our favorite hunting
knife, but you know, what you
need in addition to your hunting
knife is you need a multi-tool.
Mm.
You'd be crazy not to
go with a multi-tool.
I think the minimum though, for me
would be my hunting knife if I couldn't
bring a multi tool, cuz they are
kind of heavy, but not that heavy.
Uh, would also be a, a large, um, more of
a bushcraft knife than a hunting knife.
Right.
I mean, I still use it for, for game
preparation, but if I'm packing out from
a base camp or if I'm going into a spike
camp, that big knife can be a godsend.
Mm-hmm.
, because you can baton it
through to split wood.
You can chop small, you know, wood for
processing for your firewood, so mm-hmm.
, that kind of a nice, So
let's you know, ideal.
And money's no object,
Chainsaw, chainsaw, fuel.
Um, if weight is a concern, then a good
quality, like a Silky boy style saw
or one of the other folding type buck
saws, those can, and I don't mean made
by buck, but, uh, that, and then the
other thing about those saws too is
you're gonna have to process your game.
Mm-hmm.
, the saw is gonna be very handy.
Uh, and ax, uh, probably like
a forest ax size, you know?
Mm-hmm.
. Um, you don't really need a
giant heavy splitting mall cuz
it's a lot of weight to pack in.
But that forest ax you can
process, you know, six inch
rounds no problem by splitting it.
Uh, you can use it for cracking pelvis,
you can use it, you know, for, uh,
opening up the sternum, all those
sorts of things so that, that acts no.
Ax.
Yeah.
Big knife.
You're probably okay if that's how
you're gonna wanna look on a minimalist
approach.
You know, I generally always have
a little ax, whether it be a little
Gerber or I think so makes wine.
But they're, they're lightweight, they're
small, they're sharp, they're durable.
And I've got one of my vehicle, if
I'm going out and I'm doing a, um, a
backpack hunt, a truck hunt, a fly-in
hunt, I've always got in one of little
pockets in my pack, a little, little ax.
Cause it's amazing.
Your tent pole goes down.
If you can set something
up, you chop something down.
Uh, you're out on my, my side-by-side.
I've got a little ax in
the glove compartment.
Uh, it takes a while, but you can actually
take care of some pretty big obstacles.
Yeah, no, I like, I get my halto force,
you know, and that's razor sharp.
Yeah.
It's not a great ax for splitting
or anything else, but it will split.
Yeah, I can certainly clear brush with it.
I can process firewood, I can,
you know, do anything else.
And I just love that ax to,
to bits, you know, that's,
it's, uh, it's always with me.
It's always on my, if, if I'm
not, uh, using a pack board's,
always on my day pack, always.
And, uh, on the opposite side of my rifle,
rifle goes here, Handle of the ax is by
my ear over here, but it's always there.
So, for
sleeping, are you a, uh, a
down or synthetic type person?
Synthetic, yeah.
Yeah.
You know,
.
Down is lightweight, it's compressible,
it's got all these great things, it's
warm, you know, all this thing.
But boy, when you're wet,
you're, it's toast Arora, man.
Yeah.
And you are invariably either going
to, you know, get wet from frost or
you're gonna get wet from just, you
know, condensation within the tent.
Yes.
All this is, now we have this
vision of going up north and you
know, it's gonna be super cold.
Hmm.
Most of the times, if you're in that, you
know, even in the Northern Rockies, uh,
up in the Cassius on the lakes, Okay, I'm
not talking at, you know, top elevation.
But, you know, we've seen temperature
fluctuations from, like I say, 90
degrees during the day, which is a
real anomaly, but most of the time it
runs around four to six degrees Celsius
during the day and gets down to minus.
10 minus 12 sometimes at night.
Right.
So, you know the need for a huge,
you know, Trapper Nelson type, uh,
you know those old pioneer bags?
Yeah, sure.
They'd be nice cuz you just
throw 'em on the ground.
Yeah.
But you don't really need it.
A good synthetic bag, even though
it may not be as, as compressible.
You're gonna be warm and warm.
Yeah.
You know, I got this crazy,
these thin light bags I, I got
years ago, and I still use them.
They're mummy bags and man, they
work really well and they are
tiny when they're packed up.
Mm-hmm.
. But they, you know,
they will take you down.
So again, you want to trade off.
It's all about backpacking again, What
do the backpackers say and talk to them.
But if you want to get a, you know,
a small bag, and then what you do
is you wear your layers underneath.
You're gonna wear clothing, a
beanie, uh, you know, keep your
socks on when you go to bed
and stuff, and, and the
clothing system that you use.
You're gonna want to have a hard shell
so that you're able to be waterproof.
You're gonna want to have water,
windproof water and windproof.
You're gonna want to
have an insulating layer.
You're gonna want to have
some wicking layer under.
And it's one of these places where
you can cut a lot of weight because
you're probably gonna be wearing
basically the same thing all the time.
It's not like in, in your built up
areas where you're from, where gonna be
changing something, clothes, you know,
do, do take up a ton of room and wait.
We've often though, you know, reward
yourself about halfway through the
trip by having a, you know, clean,
boiling up a lot of water, and, you
know, changing out your underwear.
Yeah.
And maybe your, you know,
your, your mid-layer, right?
Yeah.
But most of the time now, I would stay
away from traditional style clothing,
like a button up shirt with a collar.
Mm-hmm.
, everything you should be wearing, you
know, should be super thin next to your
body, wicking, then your mid layer, then
you start maybe getting an insulating
layer of either, you know, Marino
wool or, or some of these finer down
products, you know, or synthetic down.
That would be good.
Um, but by all means, having
that ability to get the shell on.
So if you know that when you've
got every piece of clothing on,
you're good for minus 20 mm.
Uh, but you can also vary what you
have in those layers back forth.
, we always talk about the importance
of breaking in that clothing
as well and trying it out.
You know, you don't want to head out
there, uh, and not know, and that goes
back to some of our other lessons on that.
But your, your packing trip like
this may require a little bit more
specialized clothing, but nonetheless,
the most important thing I always
say is at night when it's bedtime,
you don't go to bed in the clothes
that you're, you wore all day, right?
You gotta go to bed in dry clothes.
So even if you're switching out, you get
up in the morning, it's awful cold to get
naked and get into those slightly damn
clothes that you sweat in the day before.
Keep that sleeping stuff dry.
Mm-hmm.
and I, you know, even the beanie
and everything else that'll,
that'll make for a huge issue.
And can we actually just
one step back on the, Yeah.
On the sleeping side of things,
super important to keep some form of
insulation between you and the ground.
You have to have it.
So all of these new inflatable mats
that are out there from climate and
thermal rest and, and the like, that,
uh, you know, they have that ability
to give you that r value between
the ground and your sleeping bag.
Cause remember, you know, as soon
as you're in your sleeping bag,
you've taken away all the insulating
value as your body crushes it down.
Yeah.
Right.
So that's the, the importance of the pad.
Air mattresses seen so many guys, you
know, bring a nice, big thick, you
know, air bad in, say I'm tired of
sleeping so close to the ground, I could
be covered, and they freeze to death.
Mm-hmm.
. So, um, if you need it, you know, you can
buy, I have Climate has an awesome thick
mattress, which only folds up to about
that because not too big, but once it's
inflated, it, it really gives you, uh,
you know, a lot of cushioning, but also
a lot of insulation value because inside
now by the feet it's just air chambers.
Mm-hmm.
, but up where your body is, it's
got, you know, uh, foam, like
a, a high, uh, low density foam.
Of course that's, you know, your
body's able to heat that up.
So those inflatable mattresses,
in my opinion are, are a godsend.
I mean, I'm a side sleeper and
I need to slide sleep, otherwise
I'm not gonna have a good sleep.
I'll be snoring all night long.
Yeah.
Um, those inflatable thick ones are great.
, putting something down between
that inflatable thick layer, even
if it's just a bit of a tarp or
something a little, Keep it from
getting from abrasions or from pops.
Yeah.
And bringing an emergency
patch kit are so needed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's again, in your, you know,
being prepared for any emergency.
So how will this piece of kit fail me?
Mm-hmm.
. So if it, you know, a catastrophic failure
means you've gotta go to plan B, which
is now head off and get a whole bunch
of hemlock bows and, and put those down
to, to cushion you from the ground.
Mm-hmm.
, because they will cushion you and more
importantly, they will insulate you.
Mm-hmm.
, and, you know, and, and if it gets
down to where you're, that's what
you're gonna do, or if that's your
plan right from the beginning, you
should practice that an awful lot.
Mm-hmm.
before you get up there and, and, and, no,
you know, there's hemlock in the north,
but most of it's, you know, Spruce and
spruce isn't quite as nice to lay on as,
as hemlock, you know, and, and, and so on.
Um, What can go wrong?
Some people get these cots as well.
Mm-hmm.
, and again, with a cot, you're, it's
getting that r value between the
cold air space, between the ground
and the cot and your sleeping bag.
So you still need the air mattress.
I don't know whether the cot on
its own is, is the greatest idea.
You know, it's certainly for comfort,
for side sleeper it would be good, but
still having that, you know, thermos
climate pad or whatever in there.
There is
another thing that people might want to
think about depending on the area that
they're going to, is predatory protection.
So I bring a, an electric
fence, super lightweight.
There's a company in Alaska that makes
these things, Yeah, nine volt battery.
Yeah.
I think this is on double
A's and it's, Yeah.
But yeah, it's, it's a series of them,
so it's probably same kind of voltage
and it beeps, you get a little bit of a,
Beep e every so often, and that's a nice
comforting beep as you're going to sleep,
that you know that the thing's working.
If you stop hearing that beep,
you realize time to change those
batteries.
I have not invested one of those.
I do recommend them.
I think it's a great idea.
Uh, what we've done is just, there's
litter everywhere in the north, so even
if you don't bring tin cans in, you can
pretty quick find, you know, a half a
dozen tin cans, fishing line strung around
your camp, couple of stones in there.
It's a classic early warning
system, you know, for, for
predators coming around, Right?
Yeah, predators.
I guess we've gotta talk about that.
Where did we go?
We were talking about betting.
Yes, we were talking
about layered clothing.
Predators are a very real
thing and keeping a sloppy
camp may not be the best idea.
Watch the prevailing wind.
The wind's coming from my back
blowing towards you, so, I'm where
my camp is gonna be, where my
tent is going to be in my tent.
No toothpaste, no feminine products.
No nothing in my tent except me.
My sleeping gear and my clothing.
Mm-hmm.
, my cooking area, it moves as we
go, you know, we follow the wind.
So if a predator's following
the wind backwards, he's gonna
encounter all these other things.
I'm gonna be, you know, while
I'm sleeping in my tent, the last
thing that they're gonna find.
Mm-hmm.
my cooking food preparation area, and fire
my food cash minimum 16 feet in the air.
Mm-hmm.
, what's really wild when you go up
to the north, um, you're not gonna
end up in being the first person
that's ever camped in that place.
On a lake you might be when you
spike out, up onto the mountain side.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, nobody slept in that little,
you know, crevice that you found up there.
But down on the lake side, they're
all got camps all over them.
Hmm.
And often what's happened is if you're
hunting in one of the Northern Parks
BC parks, they have gone in their
personnel and put, uh, cable up in
the trees and put a piece of conduit,
plastic conduit over the cable.
So you get your rope over there and
you can use it like a hoist to get
your stuff well up off the ground.
Mm-hmm.
, you'd be a fool not to do that.
A hundred percent agree.
You'd be a fool not to do that.
Your game pull again, as high as you
can make it, you know, you use a little
bit of ingenuity to figure out, uh, you
know, how to build a ladder, bushcraft
ladder to get up there, but that get
that game pull up and often the game that
you deal with in those circumstances,
you're gonna have bone out anyways.
Mm-hmm.
. So it's not like hauling a a
quarter of moose way up in the air.
You're going to, you know, have a, a
game bag full of meat, uh, which again,
two of you or some even a little pulley,
like to go with these block and tackles.
. If you're going heavy camping, if
you're going in, you know, with, you
know, money to burn, that's fine.
Maybe you want to bring a
real block and tackling.
But in a lot of cases, you know, your
five 50 para court is what you're, you're
gonna pull your game, meet up there with
So an adequate pulley to put through that.
Or if you're lucky enough to find
one of these camps that have the, the
conduit, uh, system, it's excellent and
not too close to the trees because we
always think about grizzly bears, but
the north of bounds with black bears.
Mm-hmm.
. And they can climb trees
like nobody's business.
So tell me, um, I keep a tiny little
Garmin, uh, I think they call it a temp,
e n p e, but it's, it communicates with
my watch, it tells me what the temperature
is outside based on my pack as opposed
to the temperature for my wrist, which
is gonna be throwing it off a little bit
so I can kind of keep an eye on a food
safe range for any meat that I down.
You find yourself out there.
And it's a balmy hot day.
What are you doing with your meat?
Oh, that's a great question cuz that
has, has happened more than once.
Now I'm going to proudly brag that the
only meat we ever lost once was a moose
that we'd, uh, dropped in the evening.
And when we got back to it the next day
that the grizzly had on, I mean, we packed
out what we could in the initial go.
Uh, we took out the tenderloins
backstraps and I think, uh, a
portion of one of the HD quarters.
But uh, that was it on the first leavings.
When we came back, the rest was gone.
So that's a loss of meat.
But to spoilage, we've been very lucky.
Uh, I find that as long as
the temperature sort of stays,
About eight degrees or below.
It's not a concern.
It can just hang there and,
and it's, and it's good.
We try and find a good shady
place always for our game pole.
And if you can get kind of close to the
lake again so that, you know, not only
we're talking about prevailing wins from
camp and, and you know, just predator
protection, but if you can get it down
there where the air is moving over it as
well, that, um, Oh, what's the correction?
It's not condensation, but the,
uh, evaporative effect Right.
Can also help to cool the meat.
Right?
As, as the meat dries it, it
actually kind of cools from
the right evaporative effect.
So those are the, the right things to do.
And we should all know that, you know, we
should know how to hang meat from just,
you know, our, our hunting experiences in
the past, however, we have really got a
spike in temperature, uh, getting to the
meat where it starts to lose its crust.
What we've done is taken totes and
put totes into the lake, putting,
you know, rocks in the bottom of the
tote, plus the weight to the meat.
But putting the tote in, uh, putting
the, the lid back on the tote,
covering it up with branches so it's
shaded and the coolness of the lake.
Cuz I'm telling you, those
lakes up there are cold old.
Yeah, they're all the time.
There's, there's, you know, the
odd time I've taken a dip in
there to try and get cleaned off.
They are cold.
Right.
Cold.
Which kind of brings another point too.
Um, Be very careful on any of
these trips because again, help.
Outweighs away couple hours at best.
You know, even when you're
communicator and something
stupid is that, you know what?
That cold shock that you can
get from jumping into a lake.
Yes.
You know, it's a very real thing.
Yeah.
You don't wanna do that.
You don't wanna risk anything.
Mm-hmm.
, if, if, you know, if you're gonna
cross water and there's like a big
slimy pole there that you think,
well, I'll just, you know, walk across
like the Great Will Enda or something
like that, that's not a good idea.
You can slip, break a leg,
do all sorts of things.
So stripping down with your Crocs,
waiting across, using, you know,
walking sticks or another thing
that are always helpful on those.
Mm-hmm.
, um, extra caution.
Yeah.
Don't take risks, you know?
Uh, Yeah.
Don't take risks because you jeopardize
everybody else that's on the trip as well.
Mm-hmm.
, because if you do something that now
they have to rescue you or you have to
be evacuated or treated or, or something
of that nature, you, everybody else has
gotta risk themselves to help you out.
Mm-hmm.
. I mean, we still haven't ki you
know, we are gonna have to do a
session too, where we're gonna have
to do like a gear load out almost.
Maybe that's what we're gonna
have to, to try and talk about.
But again, keep in mind on these things,
um, to keep your equipment, uh, redundant
that you've got a, a backup plan for
every single piece of equipment you have.
Say, if that thing fails,
what have I got to back it up?
And usually, you know, you're
pretty safe with one backup.
Mm.
Uh, I always say, and, uh, you
know, so that's, be prepared.
Be a good boy scout if
you're gonna do this.
Consider all the, the ins and outs of it.
Um, another thing always comes up, Well,
what's the right caliber for this stuff?
Well, we talked a lot about, we did
caliber selection and everything else.
If I were to say now on one of
these northern hunts, I would
probably offer for more horse.
Hmm.
You know, the, the, the 6.5
CREEDMORE craze is there,
the 6.5 PRC great cartridges.
Sure.
We talked about, you know, the
effectiveness based on their section loan.
I want some horsepower.
I'd be going the 300 PRC
that you got there.
Well, yeah,
,
uh, but I mean, nothing's, you
know, that's a heavy, that's
a heavy rifle to carry around.
It does what it's supposed to
do and it does it very well.
But I'd be, I'd be kind of inclined
to be looking at, uh, a 300
wind mag or something like that.
Right.
Uh, 300 short mag, either seven millimeter
or 30 caliber, uh, that, you know,
that's, that's got some, some set down
power because knock on wood, and as
you're putting wood in the fireplace.
Yes.
Um, we never, uh, have
actually had to shoot a grizzly
bear on any of these trips.
We've seen plenty.
Right.
Uh, and.
You want to have an
effective firearm for that.
Right.
A lot of times we talk about, you know,
we always bring a, a shotgun for camp.
Now we are talking about
a small game getter.
Yeah.
If you bring a, a shotgun along,
then some seven and a half shot buck
shot, uh, and you know, for whatever
predators and slugs, of course for bears,
Having a light on that
shotgun is pretty handy.
Yes.
Yeah.
Uh, we have gone out for recovering game
in absolute pitch dark and a headlamp and
a scoped rifle is about as useless as,
pardon my language, it tits on a Turkey.
Right?
Uh, there is, that is
not gonna work for you.
You need to, you know, your headlamp of
course for navigation, but you need a
lighted, uh, for end on that firearm.
Mm-hmm.
. So, you know, even if you, you know,
the, like, it would be nice, your
backup firearm if you want to take a
third firearm or whatever, in case a
rifle breaks something like a 45 70
with a little short picketing rail
to put a light on, that'll be a help.
You know, that'll be a
help.
What about water?
So everyone's got their
different ideas on water.
I think this would be a good one to chat.
First couple of trips
we're filter and air water.
Hmm.
If you're on a glacier lake that, you
know, sort of milky, milky blue, can't see
through the filter just plugs right up.
Yeah.
And what we found was, uh, a group
of five on that one trip, two guys
got really bad diarrhea and it
had to be water born, you know?
Sure.
And, and so the filter
gets as much as it does.
We switched out, take a, you know,
and if space allows, take a food
grade five gallon bucket, which
is good for your load in cause
you'd put stuff in it to bring in.
But you take, you fill that bucket up,
you put water treatment in there, let
it settle the, all of the, you know, the
solids, all that, you know, glacier silt
will settle to the bottom and you'll have
a nice, you know, safe water to drink.
Mm-hmm.
. If you don't like the taste of that
water purifier, then, you know,
systems like, uh, well, Grail and,
uh, Katie Di and I think there's
other ones where you just sort of
scoop the water, push the press down.
Right.
And it looks just like a regular water
bottle that tends to take that taste out.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
They work well.
I mean, and then your redundancy to
all this, if you were to lose your
treatment, boil your water mm-hmm.
boil it.
Yeah.
You know, to, to go through.
I would, I would treat all the water
I'm gonna drink because, you know, hey,
it's a pristine looking creek now, and
we've learned enough that, you know,
there's a dead moose, a hundred feet
up there that you can't see smell or
whatever, and he's rotting in that
creek and you start drinking, getting
that bacteria or, you know, I heard a
caribou's gone by and every one of them
has had a leak in that water before
you, you drink it, it's a problem.
You know it, it's
a pretty simple precaution to take.
Oh, totally.
If you have it, bring it.
It's takes up so little, so little room.
Treat
your water.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and you know, life straw and,
you know, grail and all those other
systems for filtering the water are so
much better than what they used to be.
Those little, those little water
pumps.
The little handheld ones.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They can be great.
You find a little, maybe you can't
get your canteen or your water
bottle in to scoop it up, but
you can pump it outta of there.
Right.
And then you put your
water purification in.
Yeah.
I, I've got a little, uh,
pocket bells I'll bring with me.
Yeah.
And I use this pocket bellows for
starting fires so you're not breathing
in it in and takes up no room.
I keep it in my Bino pouch.
Super handy little thing, but
you pump water with it too.
Well, the other thing is it works
as a straw , I mean, I've been
out there and I mean, your parts
water's gone and you're in a pinch.
Get it in below the
scum, layer on the top.
Drink something from underneath.
Yeah.
So I've, I've been there, I've been lucky.
I've been lucky with the, um, uh, never
having Giardia or anything like this.
But why, why leave it up to
luck, Right.
Purify.
And now we, you know, the D
word, I don't mean Dallas.
Hmm.
Uh, diarrhea are other
ailments and everything else.
When you go on these trips, you should
have a good broad spectrum set of
medications, you know, for headaches,
for muscle cramping, all these things.
Because if you don't drink enough
water, you're gonna get muscle cramps.
Yep.
So it's nice to be able to
treat that so you can sleep.
There's a whole host of things that'll
make that trip that much more enjoyable.
But make sure you've got antidiarrhea,
stomach medicine, uh, all the
differents, analgesics and, and so
on, and all that goes with a first
rate, first aid kit, you know.
Uh, people often think associated
to hunting are gonna be gunshot
wounds, which we really know
is not, not really the truth.
Uh,
sprains and
breaks.
In sized wounds as seems to
be the worst thing that I've
encountered time and time again.
Sure.
Because, you know, you're either
sharp hunting knives up inside
the cavity of an animal, or
broken bones or things like that.
So make sure you're capable of doing that.
Talk to your family doctor.
He might be the kind of person
that will give you a bit of a broad
spectrum antibiotic that you can bring
along with you so that if somebody
does get cut early on the trip, they
can start administering this stuff.
You know, they're, they can, they
can prescribe that for you, just,
you know, based on the faith that
they know you that well or whatever.
And it, and it's
worth a try that some buddies go
up and do Denali and their doctor
prescribed them some morphine.
Yeah.
I don't know how many doctors
will do that, but hey, they're
able to head up there and do it.
So maybe that's a relationship they have.
Yeah, exactly.
And that, and it's always nice.
Firefighters are great hunting partners
because they are super well trained.
First aid.
Yes, they are.
You know, and, and having a, you
know, one of your, your hunting party
being a firefighter is a good thing.
There's my, as a police officer, a
shameless plug for a former police
officer , um, the, uh, Oh, I was gonna say
something else about the first aid kit.
It just popped outta my head.
Crazy glue sutures.
Oh,
compression.
Yeah.
And, and if, if everybody could take a
first aid course before you go on one
of these, it's extremely important.
Sure.
Very important duct tape, man.
I use duct tape for everything.
I, and I wrap it around my water
bottles, get good quality duct tape.
And I've got someone, some water
bottles out here that have been
sitting out in the rain forever.
You can still peel it
off and it still sticks,
Gor.
Gorilla tape Yeah.
Is good because you'd also
use it as a fire starter.
Yes.
You know, you need to, you
know, have a, a good amount.
And again, just like you say, so
you know, your, your, your fire
steel, your phac rod to wrap that
around, make a knob on the end of it.
But do it with gorilla tape
so you can peel that off.
Um, the, uh, make sure that you've got
that tape for repairing everything.
Gorilla tape will often make an
airtight seal on your air mattress too.
If you know the first, you know,
attempt at at seal it up works.
Okay.
We tore the bottom out of a canoe once.
Gorilla tape.
Well, yeah.
It was actually duct tape on that one.
But what we did was we tore the
out of a fiberglass canoe, we laid
a round piece of willow in there.
Yep.
And then we brought shoe.
Okay.
Which is another great product.
And so we use the gorilla or the
duct tape shoe goo everything.
We're able to make the,
the canoe waterproof again,
which gave us the ability to
get, You're going in with a lot
more kit than I'm going in with.
I'm, I'm coming up to
this conclusion here.
If, if,
if everybody's gone a, you know, a roll of
tape, if everybody's got a little bit of
shoe glue and it doesn't weigh much, Yeah.
You know, it's good.
Speaking of shoes and feet, man.
Oh man, you've gotta have
blister remedy with you.
So, Duct tape.
Yeah, duct tape will actually work.
Um, there's some other products that
are a little nicer, uh, that'll stay
on your feet for quite a while too.
There's different types of
tape, but you can't fool around.
As soon as you get a hotspot on
your foot, you gotta treat it.
You gotta, you gotta get
that blister prevented or,
or protect, you know, That's,
uh, a very interesting.
Talking about stopping and treating it.
So, uh, many years back, buddy of mine
just came outta the British military.
He'd done SAS selection a couple times.
He's been on the podcast here in the
past, and he says, Trav, I'm, I'm gonna
go do hike some of the hills around here.
You want to come along?
Absolutely I do.
Right?
So I go on out there.
Geez, what boots should I use?
Everyone's raving about these Dan boots.
Totally inappropriate boot for me.
And Boots are such a personal thing.
You can never say, this
is the best boot to get.
People have to try it out and
figure it out for themselves.
Anyways, I, I'm going out there and,
uh, there's another fellow with us as
well, or hiking up the mountain side and
he's getting some hot spots on his feet.
And man, I'd had hot spots for
quite some time already, but
I can't say nothing, right?
This guy just got outta the British
military done SAS selection.
I'm keeping him mouth shut,
plugging along lets to our thing.
I don't want to be looking
like a wuss on this.
The other guy says, Oh, you know,
my feet are kind of bothering me.
And he's like, Stop.
Sit down, take off your
boots, address 'em.
He says, Okay, administrate yourself.
Okay.
So he is doing his thing and I'm
looking and Oh, maybe I should
do the same thing going up the
mountain guys kind of shivering.
It's like, Hold on, stop.
Get, get your uh, get your jacket on.
Warm up.
Right?
And it was a very different mindset than
how I was raised and what I was used to.
I was always raised and used to be tough.
Keep going, don't complain.
Right?
And we can power through this.
There'll be a deadline or a finish
line, and then you can warm up
and nurse your wounds afterwards.
This guy goes on and on and on.
He doesn't pick the fastest pace.
He's not screaming through.
But whenever there's an
issue, you need some food.
You stop, get some food in, get going.
You need your feet done.
You stop, you address your feet.
And that little mindset, which turns
out is a special forest mindset.
What a game changer to the comfort level
and ability just to enjoy your hunt,
your hike, your your back country a.
Like, I spent the next two and a half,
three weeks in flip flops because I had
such huge scabs on the back of my feet
after that that I couldn't get shoes on.
So stopping the second you get a
hotpot, the second you start getting a
little bit cold, put something on right
before it gets too far, because there's
nobody gonna be out there to, to fix
that for you.
Yeah.
And keep watching your, your partners
that are with you, because we're
not all, we all don't have the same
metabolic rate or, or, you know, energy
level or anything else like that.
Because, and being the tough
guy doesn't do the group help.
And let's skip all the way
back to the beginning of this.
How much did this thing cost?
Mm-hmm.
. So why ruin, you know, something that
I've invested quite a bit of money
to be out there to do right by not
taking five minutes outta my day to
get my socks off, treat my dogs, put
my socks back on and continue on.
Right.
Speaking of which, another little
helpful hint, which I know I've
offered up as a pro tip in the past,
but Gore-Tex socks, you can't help
but get your boots soaked through.
You take your wet socks off, you put
dry socks on, you put a set of Gore-Tex
socks on, put your wet boots, you
know, try and blo as much water out,
but put your goretex socks back on
and you can walk with dry feet again.
And often you can walk your boots
dry over a day or so as well with
that, even though you're not having
to put them to a fire to warm them
up or dry them, anything like that.
Well,
you had that other tip as
well, that sham Wow tip.
Yep.
Well that's it at night.
Uh, carry those little sham wows,
twist them up, put them up inside your
boot, and it works like a capillary
siphon to right to take the water out.
So toes up, shamma up inside.
And it
can also use it on the inside of your
tent to dry things off with all the
condensation that you're gonna get on a
single wall tent.
Any way.
Nothing.
And, and that's the, you know, rather
than being a Terry cloth towel,
get one of those microfiber towels.
Yeah, Which same thing.
You can use it for so many things and it
doesn't take up any space or weight or
anything like that, but you don't need
like a, you know, a face towel, pant
towel, bath towel, that sort of stuff.
One of those little ones.
And talking about keeping
clean is keeping warm too.
Mm-hmm.
You know, on the subject of tells, make
sure you bring along, you know, some
scent-free, uh, biodegradable, you know,
soap camp suds or something like that.
You wash the dishes, wash your
clothes if you need to wash
your, your body, it's all good.
Mm-hmm.
. Um, some of the other
things, again though, as much
comfort as you want to have.
Um, being careful.
There's always liquor in my
hunting camp, but, you know, so.
On these types of camps, take in
just, you know, a little bit of sip
and liquor or something like that.
It'll cut way back.
You can, don't bother
bringing glass in the know.
That's kind of a, a personal
request cuz glass either gets
broken and never, never comes out.
Or people say, Oh, it just throw it
in the fire and it turns to slide.
Oh it doesn't really.
Right.
It's still there.
It's still there.
There's always glass, uh,
packing in your garbage.
The ethos.
Pack it in, pack it out.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, just whatever you're
taking in now, I always say you
gotta burn your food scraps, You
know, that helps with predators.
Take your tin cans, burn them, but
then take them out and smash them
flat and then put them into a bag.
But don't there, there seems to be
this thought that went back cuz the
guys that were in those and, and
that will be the shocking thing you
will find when you go into these
northern lakes and remote areas.
There's people who have been there
for a hundred years before you.
Sure.
And you'll find areas where people
have, you know, dumped a whole
bunch of cans into a hole in the
ground and they're still there.
Well, even going back further than that,
there's like obsidian arrowheads in, uh,
mids and things like that.
Yeah, exactly.
Like people have been there, people have.
Uh, fires another couple things.
You know, wherever you, you go in
and there's already an established
fire pit, but for whatever reason,
somebody says, Well, I don't really
like the view from that fire pit, so
I'm gonna put another fire pit there.
So you've now created another 30,000
year scar on the ground, Right?
Right.
So just stick with,
you know, what's there.
Use what people have had.
Cutting, cutting live trees.
Uh, if you're operating in one of
the northern parks up there, in many
of these areas, you know, our, our
parks, they're regulated by BC parks.
You cannot cut the live,
uh, conifers trees.
That's a fine Right.
And.
Have run into, you know, if you hear a
helicopter coming, it's one of two things.
It's somebody coming to
rescue or it's gonna be the co
conservation officer service.
And they usually come with a BC parks
ranger that comes in there mm-hmm.
. And that ranger is looking to
see what you've cut mm-hmm.
and that can a amount to
quite a, a hefty fine.
So there's no reason to cut.
There is so much dead standing stuff.
Um, if you're any one of the lake
shores, you know, for firewood,
and then, you know, if you do need
structural things, cut the aspens,
nobody, you know, they're fine.
You grow right back, cut the alder, cut
the, the willow and, and, and that type
of, you know, um, weed tree, for lack
of a better term, that that's all fine.
Sure.
They don't care about that.
But when you're finished, if you've cut
a bunch of tent poles from what's up
there, stand them up so they don't rot.
And then the next person that arrives can
use them to, to string their wall tent on
or whatever they, they, they care to do.
I think, you know, we, it was a
traditional thing to take, you know, a, a
frameless wall tent in, and then cut your
poles, cut your poles and everything else.
Today there is such a variety of
the hot tents that are out there.
Most of them like a, a, a a teepee
style or, or something like that.
But a a, a circular, you know, allows,
uh, for your tall center pole to go up.
And that center pole can either be,
you know, an expandable one that you
brought, one that you cut, or you can
actually use a little pulley system
and pull the center of that thing up a
little small wood stove inside there.
And you've got comfort beyond.
Imagine, you know, you know who
makes a really good,
lightweight, spacious tent.
Mm.
Brad Brooks from Rali.
Oh, really?
Past podcast guest.
And, uh, just Google up Rali check,
check out the tents that he makes.
He's was one of the consultants
on some other big name
lightweight back country tents.
And he says, You know, I still have ideas.
I still want to make innovations.
And he's made those innovations
within the tents that he has there.
So I would definitely recommend
people check that one out.
Yeah, they're awesome.
Well, that's gonna be your home
for while you're in there, right?
So you wanna make sure that you know,
you, you've taken good accounts.
I mean, we talked about bringing
some tarps because you can't
spend all your time in the tent.
Uh, and if you get a big roar and
fire outside, you know, it's nice to
have, uh, a bit of a tarp to reflect
the heat back from that fire onto
your back and also keep you out of the
mist or whatever that's coming down.
So we've covered a fair
bit of ground here.
Oh, man.
You know, mindset going in, being the
group, the people that you're picking,
making the decision whether you're
gonna go by yourself or with a group.
Understanding bush pilots and
weather systems and how that's,
there's no guarantees there really.
There is no guarantees.
And just because you're guarantee
book in with a pilot doesn't mean
that you're necessarily taking voice
scout attitude.
Be
prepared, be prepared.
Um, communication systems.
We touched a little bit on food.
You're right that it's a much bigger area.
We could, uh, we could get into sleeping
systems, both shelters, backup systems.
Talked a bit about firearms.
W I don't know if there's too much
else within the scope of this that we
can really be delving into, but the,
you know, the basics, optics,
firearms, that's all there.
But I would just say with the
firearms opt for a bit of redundancy
so that you do have, you know, some
kind of a backup for the firearms.
Mm-hmm.
, I mean, if you and I, if I was, you know,
40 years younger and we were going in on
a sheep hunt and we're going in on a, in a
1 72 or a 180 2 or you know, a small float
plane onto a high altitude lake, it might
be just backpack and a little box of,
you know, snacks or something like that.
So there that redundancy
thing's gonna be wa Yes.
Right.
You know, we're not gonna have a whole ton
of stuff, but if you and I and a couple
other guys are gonna, you know, pay for a,
an otter flight in, we could be relatively
comfortable, but be smart about it.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, what we're bringing in.
We wanna have a good shelter.
We want to have the ability to sit
around the fire at night, Those things.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, Firearms.
It remains the same.
Optics remains the same.
You know, those, those
things don't change too much.
But the specialty specialness of, of
this remote, you know, um, packing
and hunting trip requires that
we do some, some real thinking.
Why don't we give it
a wrap up right there.
Okay.
If people have, uh, questions
on specifics, we can always
delve into the minutia.
Yeah.
But this should give a good overall
for people who are thinking about
doing a flying hunt, particularly
in the British Columbia area.
And, uh, I mean, I've got pack lists.
I'm sure you do too.
I've got stuff we can
put as offline assets.
Yeah.
People are looking at what, uh,
what we've used in the past and,
uh, they might even have suggestions
that make it better for our next
fly in that we're gonna do together.
Right.
Where, where is that
?
Yeah.
It's by Whisper Lake next to
Never, Never Tell Mountain.
That's in Region nine.
Oh, it, Well, I think they
moved it to Region 10 by now.
Oh, is it?
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
No, we'll, we'll have a spot and we'll,
you know, see if you can figure it out.
Just like right here at Fu Duck Lodge.
Fu Duck Lodge.