Cynthia Darlow

Intro: Boz loves LinkedIn. Will she emcee the next Beastie Boys event?
Interview: We talk to star of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel Cynthia Darlow about North Carolina School of the Arts,  performing for Tennessee Williams, the historic theatrical residence for young women called the Rehearsal Club, Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts, the Webster Apartments, getting the word out about their story through New York Times article, spending the entire day in line to audition at the cattle call for the touring company of Grease, Pat Birch, Vinnie Liff, having the same agent for 55 years, Tony Shaloub, American Repertory Theatre, Cherry Jones, getting furniture for her home made by Patrick Swayze, working with Michael Zegen, the play that got away, and whether or not people should go to theatre school.

Creators & Guests

Host

Gina Pulice

Co-host, Writer, Actor, Director

Host

Jen Bosworth Ramirez

Co-host, actor, writer, consultant

What is I Survived Theatre School?

We went to theatre school. We survived it, but we didn't understand it. 20 years later, we're talking to our guests about their experience of going for this highly specialized type of college at the tender age of 18. Did it all go as planned? Are we still pursuing acting? Did we get cut from the program? Did we... become famous yet?

FULL TRANSCRIPT - UNEDITED
1 (8s):
I am Jen Bosworth Ramirez.

2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Icci.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20

2 (15s):
Years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

0 (31s):
Horrible.

2 (32s):
It's adorable.

1 (34s):
Oh yeah. No, it's horrible. It's not adorable. But anyway, so I'm, I'm like, oh, this thing called LinkedIn. Let me look around here. So, okay, so I saw an old, a, a friend that I had been, I've, I met in auditions, right? In Chicago when we were doing all in-person stuff. Lovely human, really like her. And, and on LinkedIn her, her profile popped up, And I saw that she is a professional, like really fancy mc moderator and host for big wig discussions with like, you know, celebrity athletes or tech giants. They al they need someone to interview Bill Nye.

1 (1m 14s):
They call her. And I'm like, man, I really like interviewing people as we do on this show. Like, I think that would be really great. So let me just pick her brain and say, how did you start doing this? How did you go from, she was a lawyer, turned actor, turned professional, mc, and she has this very, very big agent, right? As and so there's like agents for everything. So you have speaking agents. Great. So I was like, lemme pick her brain. So we got on a Zoom. it was lovely. She was super helpful and she was like, Jen, I think that I, I'm gonna totally hook you up with my agent. And I was like, great. So she did the Intro, And, I wrote this e fabulous email.

1 (1m 54s):
you know, 'cause those are just how I do and explaining who I am, what I'm doing in a link to my website. And the person wrote back like, let's zoom. Great. So herein lies the trouble. What I think I'm getting into is, of course, there's always the underpinnings of this is a job interview. She could, she could take me on. But with agents and managers, it's tricky because you're, I'm actually gonna end up fucking paying them. So what the fuck, man? It's, but it feels a lot like a power dynamic where they have the power. And I don't.

1 (2m 35s):
Now this is partially because of the way I've oriented to the world, but this is partially the way the fucking industry is set up, right? Like these fancy agents have all the power and all the resources and we just have to prove ourselves. Prove. But listen, I sent an email that was a very pervy pervy without being obnoxious. So I had felt Like I had sold myself in the email. And my website is very clear about who I am and my vibe. If you choose to read it, And, look at it, right? So I did that. So I showed up. And I was all, this is my first like interview or whatever you wanna call it, with an agent in a very long time, because I've had my team for a while and I've never done speaking, don don't know what the fuck this is.

1 (3m 22s):
I'm just, I'm doing what I think is an informational interview to see if perhaps there's a place for me on their roster. That's how I walk into this, right? Okay. So I get on the call and perfectly fine human. She's a perfectly fine human being. And I do what I always do, which just says which, which is, you know, we, we shoot the shit and then I say, Hey, tell me about you, like how you ended up working here, because you had said in your email, you had some interesting background, so to, and she said, well, this is your time. And I said, I know I, my jam is, I I really need to, she's I hear this, right? Right, right. She's like, this is, but I'm like, okay, like, are you not aware that I am doing the thing that I, you might sign me to?

1 (4m 12s):
Okay, we're just gonna, I said, this is my jam. Like, you, you definitely, you just go. And so she talks and did get flustered and was Like I am not having trouble. I'm having trouble articulating it. I'm like, okay, this was not supposed to be this fucking hard. Right? And then, so then we launch into where I am You know. And I said, listen, this is what I I'm an actor and I'm a writer. And I am a consultant right now. And I have a podcast with Like I. This is what I do. And I. Am I, what I know is I am really good at And.

1 (4m 53s):
I explained how I thought I might fit into the speaking in the MCing world. And she was not impressed with my, my, the way I, I think approached the conversation and the way that I was bringing up possible representation, right? Like that, that she would, it was like my pitch, like my pitch. If you asked her, if you asked me to ask her, I would say, she said, oh, her pitch of herself did not go well. I, I, I don't know this for a fact, but that's the vibe I was getting.

1 (5m 34s):
And, I thought, oh, that's weird. And then I realized what was happening, which is what happens every fucking time, something weird like this happens, which is people underestimate people, especially women, and think that because I didn't show up saying these are the reasons I'm a fucking badass. Did, I didn't do a hard sell, I didn't, that I am not, I don't care about my career. I'm not a real hustler or go-getter, right? Like, that is the, this happens all the time. But also, I'm not sure the person read my email or looked at my website, which is Right, which is information in itself, right?

1 (6m 19s):
It's, you know, you could call it lazy. I, I, my friend was like, that is lazy. I, I mostly think whatever it is, it wasn't a priority to do that. Perhaps they thought I was gonna jump on and do that, right? Like, that was the purpose of the call. We had two competing ideas of what was gonna happen on this call, right? And we didn't, it wasn't clear. So then I realized, oh, she thinks I'm a nobody, which is, which is, which is what happens a lot. And I said, oh, oh, this is what's happening. She thinks that, ah, I haven't earned my place here.

1 (7m 2s):
I haven't. And I'm like, okay. So then what I do subtly is drop as miles puts it. Like he can listen sometimes through the, he's like, oh, you really have this way of sort of like putting people in their place in this really nice way. Which is, I'm like, oh, you know, thank you so much for telling me this information, which is that I'm basically not big enough for them to even consider repping me. Right? That's what she said. Like I don't have enough cachet. Whatever, whatever. And I'm like, oh, okay. So then I subtly Gina drop all the cache or whatever it's called. Like, I'm like, oh, this is so helpful because And I literally said this, and it's the truth.

1 (7m 44s):
I said, because when I have my meeting with the CA, a speakers like Agent, like it's gonna come in really handy all the stuff you're telling me. And her eyes got really wide And I thought, this is so dumb. You Wait, I thought she was the CAA agent for speech? No, she's at a different agency. Oh, I see. Okay. Got it. But she is like that. They're, they're a similar agents agency. Big wig, big wig for speakers. But CAA is the death star. They just are And I know someone there and who hooked me up, but she doesn't know I, don And, I don't care what she knows. But I just said, you know, and it was partially true. And partially, of course, I'm trying to say like, listen person, listen, you, I know what I'm doing.

1 (8m 29s):
What the, and she goes, oh, And, I, go. Yeah, I'm Like I was like, yeah, this is gonna be so helpful because what I'm hearing is that like, until I'm of a certain caliber and have a certain experience that you wouldn't, you wouldn't consider signing me exclusively. And she was like, yeah, yeah, that's, and then I said, okay, this is great. And then I said, and it's also really helpful to know that like maybe when, and then I dropped another, a friend of mine asked me maybe to host something like host the fucking MCA from the Beastie boys Memorial. Like they have this huge MCA memorial. And Adam Horowitz, who I met at the fucking vet was like, Oh my God, you should, you have, you're so funny.

1 (9m 12s):
Would you be interested in hosting the New York City version? I said, ah, fucking yes. So I said, oh, this is so great. And, and then I dropped that on the call. Like, so when I'm, maybe I'll just negotiate this fucking thing myself, because then I could keep all the money. Like I just was like, fuck you. Like you, you, it's, it's so weird Gina to be psychologically astute, but also you wonder if you're a little crazy. But I, I don't care about that. I mean, like, am I making this up? But I don't think I was. So then I dropped that and she was like, oh. And, and then the time was up for our allotted half hour conversation that she had set aside. First of all, first of all, when people put the zoom for half hour, I'm like, you are so ridiculous.

1 (9m 58s):
Fuck you. Half hour. Yeah, okay, because you only have a half hour. Okay, we work from home. Okay. Anyway, so it was a half hour, which I noticed And I was like, so I thank you so much for meeting with us. And like, or for meeting with me, And I, I've learned a lot. And then they said, let me leave you with this. And I was like, if you want to, when you get your materials together, we'd love to put you on the website and like, have people and like an agent.

1 (10m 39s):
And if you need me to broker a deal for you, I would totally do that for you. And, I thought I said, okay, great. And, I'm thinking to myself, I don't know if this is how business is going and it's supposed to go, but if, so, I don't want anything to do with this because this is dumb. Because we could have, I'm in communications, we could have cut all this out. So I felt terrible. it was a terrible feeling to feel like, okay, so I showed up. I don't know if I did the wrong thing or you did the wrong thing, or whatever. So I went to that place of like, either I'm evil, she's evil, black and white thinking.

1 (11m 22s):
And then I and And I just chilled, And I. I just thought, okay, well that didn't go well. Why, why don't I feel great? And it was because this industry, the arts and entertainment industry. Now, lemme tell you something, I never have those conversations with other industries actually, but don don't do a lot like my job interviews. There was none of that. Zero, zilch. Now, when I met with a manager before, like a couple months ago, there was that. So I think what people have, the expectation is, is that you are, that I'm going to, anyone's going to come on and do a hard sell and a pitch about why I'm so amazing and why you should wanna work with me.

1 (12m 12s):
I don't, I'm not gonna do that. If I'm not being paid. I will pitch the shit. If you, if you give us an option and you And, I have to go and pitch our fucking show, you bet your ass. I'm gonna pitch because I'm being paid. That's my job. But this is a conversation. So Anyway, I got off And. I felt terrible. it was Friday. Terrible. So that's my story about that. What are your thoughts?

2 (12m 36s):
My thoughts about it are this, okay, first of all, it should not come as any surprise to me yet it always does. That this is exactly the thing I wanted to talk to you about. Of course, the thing I wanted to run by you, but also, you know, this has happened to me also so many times. I mean, I don't like interview with people like you do, but what I'm saying is, I am also a truth teller. I am also a person who really can't tolerate bullshit. And it's not No, it's, you can't, it's, it's not the way that people, other people say it like, oh, I hate fakeness. It's like, no, I, I can I, it's like, it feels like a toxic sludge coming over me.

2 (13m 17s):
And I feel like it's my, you know, responsibility to myself to and to the world. you know? 'cause I get overblown in my thinking to, to make sure they understand what the truth is of the situation is. Yeah. And being a therapist,

1 (13m 30s):
Well, would you say it feels dangerous or like toxic? Like it is threatening when the bullshit, when you are starting to part it. Dishonesty is

2 (13m 39s):
A very, yeah. Dishonesty makes me go into this swoon of like Oh, my God. My dad is telling me that up and down and downs up Like, I can't,

1 (13m 46s):
I can And, I can't, can can't. Got it. Yeah. It's not just like you have some self-righteous like thing about the truth. It's that it's physically and emotionally and probably spiritually intolerable to like live in that world of what the fuck? And this is not right. Like, yeah, okay.

2 (14m 1s):
It ignites my fight or flight. Yeah, it really does. It really, I, I get very panicky when somebody starts lying to me, which is a problem for me because people lie to me all the time. Yeah. All the time. you know, like, yeah. So, so the other thing is, and it's actually happened on our show a few times, not with a bad outcome, don don't think on our show, but it's a different setting to be You know that the subject of a podcast versus interviewing people are very frightened by therapists and former therapists and even just very insightful people. So I've seen it happen on our show that You don get right to the center of something and the person is overwhelmed. I think what happens in the podcast setting is the whole thing is about them.

2 (14m 43s):
So they may feel overwhelmed, but they also feel like it's a safe environment to go there. Whereas in an interview, it's all about this power dynamic. It's like the person who's in the position of being, you know, met with let's say automatically feels like you should be kissing their ring, even though they would never want you to do that in the job. They would never, they would want you to put your best foot forward in the job. They would want you to come in with a sense of autonomy and power and, and, and, and to kind of like, because Oh, my God, you couldn't possibly mc anything legitimately where you didn't bring that big dick energy to it.

2 (15m 25s):
Right? Like that, that's what, that's actually what the're looking for. But then when they get it, they're like, Hmm, don don't know if I want this. So I'm guessing she felt naked when you started asking her any questions whatsoever about herself, which is means she needs, she needs therapy. And then during the conversation when she understood more about who you really were, then she felt like an asshole. And sometimes when people feel like an asshole, instead of what my inclination is when, when I'm, when I realize I'm being an asshole, my inclination has become really obsequious. Yeah. Some people's inclination double down, somebody's being an asshole is to double down and be a bigger asshole. And, I feel like that must happen a lot more in Hollywood because it's all, this is the thing I want to run by you.

2 (16m 8s):
So it's like all egos and you don't know the way this person needs their ego stroked. And you don't know when you're supposed to be the alpha versus the big. you know, it's like, it's a constant guessing game.

1 (16m 21s):
Constant, constant. And this is how we get Weinsteins, right? Because yes,

2 (16m 26s):
Exactly.

1 (16m 27s):
We create these monsters. We're all participating in this, this, this system. It's a system of ego stroking and like, who's in charge and top dog on our dog. And like, what the, and then, okay. Yes. And then my, my follow up to that is, so I wanted to be really sure that when I talked to the person that referred me to her, that I wasn't badmouthing because I know that this agency does really right by her Like I that they are not. And so it's truly felt like a bad match, right? It didn't feel, I mean, I could go on and on about the problems I have with the way the conversation went.

1 (17m 11s):
But ultimately for all You know, practical, practical purposes, it's just not a good match. Right? And so I call, 'cause the person wanted to know how the meeting went. And I said, listen, I learned a lot, which is the total truth. I learned a lot about a lot of things myself. The situation, this industry, probably all the things I said, And, I, And, I. Think what happened was this person misinterpreted my authenticity, for lack of a better word. I sort of hate that word now, but my whatever the way I am for not having my shit together and not being like, like getting out there and swinging my dick, I think that I have a different way of swinging my dick.

1 (17m 60s):
And that is just the way it is. And that's not gonna be everyone's cup of tea. And I said that, and the response was interesting. And I, I, it was interesting. She was lovely and kind and also said, I wonder if, and then sort of threw it back on, maybe we, maybe women should be swinging our dick. Maybe I wasn't swinging my dick in that way because I was afraid to come across as too much too. Which is not out of the question. I just don't know. That's the answer to the systemic problem. Does that make sense of the whole Oh,

2 (18m 41s):
Definitely not. Of course it's not. No, of course so's not. So playing the game,

1 (18m 46s):
Playing the game, basically what she was saying, in a way, beans was maybe we as women and more pointedly me as a human, Jen should have done it a different way. Which or could have. I, she didn't say should, but you know what I mean? Like, maybe there's something in there. And, I get it. Like if someone was whatever that's, that's her job, or bread and butter, I'm not gonna, but I thought, oh yeah, that could be right. I could do that. Here's the problem with that. It would not be me.

2 (19m 18s):
Yeah. So actually I have a thought about that, which I is advice I could use on my myself. You know, when I did specifically DBT therapy, I worked with, you know, a lot of people with borderline personality disorder. And there was always a lot of conversation about being fake. you know, like if And I think people would say it in the context often of, well, if I don't tell this person how enraged I am with them, then I'm just being fake. And when they would say that to me, I would think like, yeah, well you have a point that, you know how it's this mixed message of you're supposed to live authentically, right? But then there are times when you want something fake. So I happened to be at an event where Marsha Linehan showed up and

1 (20m 5s):
Oh yes, that's year isn't that

2 (20m 6s):
Year. She's the, she's founder of Dialectical behavior therapy. She's the guru. She started it and I went up to her, And I said, Hey, I've got a question I've been wanting to ask you for like 10 years. What about when my clients say to me something about being fake? And she said, without missing a beat, she said, there's not a fake thing in the universe. Everything is real. When you're acting a different way to achieve a certain goal, you are authentically acting a different way to achieve a certain goal. Everybody doesn't need to know your core values at all times. Everybody doesn't need to know exactly who you are every second. And that's hard for you and for me because I, you know, because the, the dishonesty is at the core of everything that we felt has really negatively impacted our lives.

1 (20m 58s):
Yes.

2 (20m 59s):
And so there's this switch that I try to make, which is, okay, I'm gonna be this version of myself that I can be to suit my own interests. In this case, And, I. Think when you're talking about a job, Like I was actually just having this conversation with Aaron yesterday. He was saying, you're gonna have to go with me to this event, and it's gonna be like, it's an event where I'm gonna have to play the wife of the doctor. you know, And I, I'm not good at that. I don't like to do that. but he said, you're gonna play the game with me. And I was like, okay, I'll play the game with you. Because of course he also has to act a lot like, you know, the doctor instead of like having a more well-rounded personality of course.

1 (21m 41s):
And because he's trying to, a bigger goal of helping people and supporting his family. Like Yeah.

2 (21m 48s):
Yeah. And, I always. I've had the situation so many times of, you know, you can't stop the, the psychological part of you. And when you're having what, what promises to be a real interaction with somebody, you know, my inclination is to like draw, draw parallels. Oh, you said this and then there's this, and, but when it's, when it catches people off guard, you know, a lot of people really just can't handle. And that's, that's when the conversation ends for me. Like I, I'm making a step to what I think is right, having a connection with you. Right? You are so unnerved by it that you

1 (22m 28s):
Yes, yes, yes. And I and listen, I, yeah. And which, which was so interesting and it is interesting to hear you say, and again, DBT wise or CBT or whatever, it's like, is there room for the person not being evil? Like I? Don't think this woman is an evil person. I at all And, I don't think I'm evil. What I think is, I think our communication styles are different. And, I think the way we deal with feeling unsure in situations is different. And, I think that ultimately, ultimately my core, core folks that are gonna be partners in my life, whether it's business or not, are not gonna communicate that way.

1 (23m 18s):
However, that may mean I miss out on a tremendous amount of money at certain times in my life or fame or whatever it is. And, I, think it's interesting to bring it back to the theater school. Same thing of at core moments, we could have chosen to pretend and play the game at that showcase moment, right? We totally could have, and it probably would've behooved us in a certain way to get where we maybe wanted to go and maybe bring us happiness. We did not do that because we didn't know how, or it wasn't whatever no one said to us, Hey, like, hey, let's play the game and see what happens at the showcase when you play this type, this monologue type whatever, whatever it is, brand yourself.

1 (24m 13s):
Like lean into this, whatever it is. So it's not that I didn't want her, it's interesting, it's like knowing what I know now, I would've probably approached the conversation different. I also, 'cause you never, I never know like, what is self-sabotaging and what is, what is just Like I need to be supported in this way by certain people. And the thing about an agent relationship is, yeah, they gotta trust that you can get the job done. They gotta pitch you.

1 (24m 53s):
They gotta know that you're uber confident in what you do. And, I am not uber confident, confident in this or competent in this realm. So she's right, Like I. I am. And, and the truth is, I may not be ready for that kind of representation. That is, that is the truth of

2 (25m 14s):
It. What if you had said, what if you had said to her, what let's, let's do a thought experiment about a slight adjustment to what you did, which is before you started to ask her about yourself, you said, I'd love to show you my interviewing skills. Would it be okay if I You know Oh yeah, much for purposes of like demonstration, much better if I talk, talk to you like how I talk to people on my podcast or whatever.

1 (25m 36s):
Not much better.

2 (25m 37s):
She could have armed herself emotionally for that and then felt gratified that you asked her. Yeah, you you're right. And then felt, kept feeling like she was in position of power. That's nine 99% of the time. When I really go the wrong way with somebody, it's because my, you know, my respect for people manifests in a way that not everybody feels correct. Re is respectful. Like my respect for you could manifest in me talking just very honestly with you. you know? But, and when, when somebody talks very honestly with me, I respect them greatly.

2 (26m 18s):
But that's just not how everybody takes it in. Right.

1 (26m 21s):
And it's just the truth. Like I, I sort of got out of the way of, I had to get out of the way of who's good and who's bad because I was like starting to villainize myself, then villainize her and villainize the

2 (26m 36s):
Person. Oh. So she's just scared. Like that's her thing. She's frightened. Like the two bits of information I got about her was the way she did with her eyes. And then her saying, I'm not being articulate. She's a frightened person. Part of what is the architecture of her self-confidence is being in the powerful position in these interactions. And when something, you know, threatens that, it's Like I, she maybe has the same reaction to that as I have to. People lying to me, you know, which is, that must

1 (27m 6s):
Get away. Right. you know what people's buttons are. Right? That is the thing. So, but, and it was very helpful because I thought, okay, well, when I do meet with other people, we'll see how it goes. I mean, it definitely informed my interview yesterday for the job, you know, and it went fine. And it was, I I actually don't have as much trouble in this area in other places as I do in the entertainment industry because of the Yeah, sure,

2 (27m 37s):
Of course.

1 (27m 38s):
The sort of inherent weirdness.

2 (27m 40s):
And honestly, I, I've You know, I've, I, I borrowed that phrase that I've been saying a lot recently is of what's for you will not go by you from, from Brian Cox from his autobiography. And I, I, I love it so much. And it's such a helpful thing to think about when you don't get something that you wanted to get. You don't get something that you probably deserve to get. You don't get something that was, I mean, case in point, we, Brian Cox said yes to

1 (28m 10s):
Interview. I know. Now we

2 (28m 11s):
Can't get him now we can't get him. So I guess I have to say, I guess Brian Cox was not for me, so he's going by me. Yeah.

1 (28m 19s):
You know? Right, right, right. At this time. And that's the thing, the other thing is like that things shift and change. But for right now, and it was interesting. it was interesting when, when, when I told my, my friend that made the connection, she was like, well, you're still gonna send her all your stuff right when you assemble your public speaking reel. And I'm thinking to myself, don don't even know if I wanna assemble a public speaking reel at this point. And I still don't. So it may have served a really good purpose to see that. Like maybe that's not my jam. you know, like, it's interesting. It's all data And. I'm so grateful. And I sent the thank yous, And I did all the things because I am grateful.

1 (29m 0s):
And I also just everyone has different styles of operating. And that is like what you said about ways of communicating. That's mind blowing to me because I'm like, why wouldn't, right. Why wouldn't authenticity and transparency and whatever be celebrated and be accepted and be the norm? Well, because it's just not the norm. Like, it's just not how people work. All people, and it's also, people are in different places. And so, you know, it, it's very, it's very interesting to hear you say that, like, about the Yeah. Like what is is really exciting and that I run towards and you run towards, maybe other people run away.

1 (29m 46s):
And

2 (29m 46s):
I'm like, but that's run away. Yeah. Dumb. Exactly. I was just,

1 (29m 49s):
But that's just the truth.

2 (29m 50s):
That's just the truth. I was having this conversation with my son yesterday because he, he has a friend that he's been friends with for just like a few months. And when I met him, he ca he came over to the house. He, I, he put out his hand to shake my hand. And I looked into his face. And I said, so my reptilian brain said, that person is a narcissistic sociopath. Just, this is my little bit of data that I'm of course keeping in the back of my mind, never gonna share with anybody. Well, as happens when you're close, when you, and when you invest in a relationship with a narcissistic sociopath, they disappoint you. Sure.

2 (30m 30s):
Right? Sure. And the people, sometimes

1 (30m 32s):
Small, sometimes big ways. Yes.

2 (30m 34s):
Sometimes big And. so he had this experience, he was feeling really upset. And I said, listen, it's, no, it's not even really a value judgment. Like nobody wants to be a narcissistic sociopath, but some people just are, and therefore they're not capable of giving you the thing that you seek from them. And you'll always be banging your head against the wall when it comes to trying to get reciprocity from these people. And I think, you know, Hollywood is full of salesmen, excellent, brilliant, wonderful salesmen who have to turn off a little bit of the empathy in their own self to be able to constantly be selling themselves. It's just the nature of the beast. And I, think the people who've been successful, who are like deeply empathic, which is a lot, a lot of artists, is having the team that works, you know, that is your, is your intermediary.

2 (31m 23s):
But sometimes even getting to that team or, you know, getting to the right place for somebody who's gonna then go and speak for you is tricky. Like you're experiencing,

0 (31m 42s):
Experiencing.

2 (31m 43s):
Today on the podcast, we are talking to Cynthia. Darlow Cynthia is an

3 (31m 47s):
Actor.

2 (31m 48s):
She's done everything. She's been everywhere. She's met everyone. You probably know her from the Marvelous, Mrs, Maisel, but there's a lot more to her than that one role. She went to North Carolina School of the Arts,

3 (32m 1s):
And she's

2 (32m 1s):
A fantastic gem. So please enjoy our conversation with Cynthia Darlow.

0 (32m 8s):
See you.

3 (32m 10s):
Okay. Well, thank you so much for being on this podcast. It's an honor to have you, and, and we always start the same way, which is to say, congratulations, Cynthia Darlow, you survived theater school, and we wanna hear all about it. Please tell us about, well, we love to hear why people picked the school they did, and also kind of like what you thought it would be versus what it was like when you actually got there.

4 (32m 40s):
Okay. Well, I went to the North Carolina School of the Arts when it was just about born. it was my, my class was the second drama class ever. I only knew about it because I only discovered the theater in my junior year of high school. I did not grow up wanting to be an actress. I wanted to grow up and go to college and teach English lit. That was my big dream. But I had a big family upheaval situation. And I ended up moving from Michigan, Detroit, Michigan to Hampton, Virginia. it was like going to a foreign country, actually. I mean, the kids, I, I used to think I was so lucky to grow up in a place that had no accent.

4 (33m 25s):
I had this thick Midwestern accent with hard ours, you know, and stuff like that. And you

3 (33m 29s):
Had no idea, right?

4 (33m 30s):
No, no. And the kids would come up to me in the hogs, oh, you talk so funny. Say something for us, you know? Well, I had, I, I enrolled in a drama class because I thought it was about reading plays. And I loved to read. I'd been reading since I was four. Always a big bookworm, little brown mouse who never spoke to anyone. Just always had my nose in a book. And this was an elective, well, we didn't have electives in the high school. I went to Detroit. We had armed police guards in the halls. you know, it was like, there were no electives. And I had, wait, I have to interrupt, had a weapon. And I

1 (34m 5s):
Had to interrupt. Every kid had a weapon. And you had armed guards. What? it was happening, what in the Detroit is

4 (34m 12s):
Going on? Inner city school. Inner city school, yeah. Yeah. Rough neighborhood. Inner city school, you know, girl, we had big beehive hairdos in the fifties and sixties, and girls would have razor blades tucked in there. And it was like, yeah, it was

3 (34m 26s):
Oh, my God. You lived West Side story? Yeah,

4 (34m 29s):
And I was a little pip que. I couldn't have a weapon. It would be used against me immediately. What I had was a whistle.

3 (34m 38s):
Okay, so you were using your voice from the beginning. That's sort of good, sort

4 (34m 42s):
Of. So enroll in this high school in the South, and it's about, I think it's about reading plays. Well, it was not that at all. This Bengali genius of a teacher just calling Ro on the first, my first day of school, he, I said, present. And he said, wow, what a voice. And I looked around like, who is he talking to, you know? Well, anyway, this teacher really took me under his wing. He forced me to be in the first school play, which was, you can't take it with you. And I begged and pleaded. I said, please don't make me go in front of people. I will die. I will sew your costumes. I will build your props. I will paint your scenery.

4 (35m 23s):
I will do anything else. Please don't make me go in front of people. He said, no, no, no, you're the only teenager I've got with a voice. Husky enough to play the Russian Countess. So they threw me into a vintage evening gown and went out on stage. And I said my first line, and the entire audience left And I. Could not believe it.

1 (35m 40s):
Wait, wait. So, Wait Cynthia. So you, you didn't audition nothing. You were cast as the Russian Co?

4 (35m 47s):
He made me do it.

1 (35m 48s):
Oh, he made you do it. And, and, and were you scared,

4 (35m 51s):
Terrified, and why? I had diarrhea the whole day. Oh

1 (35m 54s):
Yeah. It's like the story every time. it was for I audition. Wait, but how, how did you get over the fear to get your butt on that stage?

4 (36m 1s):
This teacher, he was just amazing. And he just really paid a lot of attention to me and thought I had something. And I was in every play from then on. I couldn't do enough for him. He had a library of plays in his office that I went through, as they say down there. Like, grant took Richmond and he saw in a Sunday supplement magazine from the Sunday paper, this article about the North Carolina School of the Arts. And he brought it to me and he said, this is where you should be going. This is where you belong. And I was like, you know, anyway, I keep from a very poor family. Mom was a single mom, two teenagers to raise with like under $4,000 a year.

4 (36m 42s):
And he paid for my college boards. And he coached me, and he drove me 10 hours to North Carolina to audition for the School of the Arts. And I got in and got a scholarship.

3 (36m 53s):
Oh, you have to say his name, you have to shout

4 (36m 55s):
Him out, his name. it was David McClung.

3 (36m 57s):
Wow. it was passed on. Thank you. David McClung teachers, I mean, none of us would be here without great teachers who are our champions. I

4 (37m 5s):
Mean, he literally saved your life. Yes. He literally worked.

1 (37m 7s):
And he, you were also probably like his muse in some way. Like here he is in the south teaching, teaching, drama. And now all of a sudden he has, it sounds like he saw a student that was really exciting in terms of their career trajectory. So you probably helped him a bunch too, in terms of being a teacher.

4 (37m 25s):
Well, I wasn't the only at risk teenager. He saved either. There were about five others of us and three of us ended up at the School of the Arts. Yeah. And then wow. And then he ended up on the faculty at the School of the Arts for a while. Yeah. Oh

3 (37m 38s):
My God. That's amazing. Yeah, it was quite a story. So you had no, I mean, I'm guessing, like, usually the story is in family where the resources are really limited. Nobody's thinking about like, oh, do you wanna be a star one day? So, so, so there was no, no conversation about that. But what about like, as you think back now and you think about how you were as a little kid. I know you were into books and everything like that, but did you put on little shows ever? Did you ever, were you kind, did you ever ham it up even just for your family?

4 (38m 8s):
Just for my, just for my siblings. We didn't have many toys, so I would make sock puppets. I would sew buttons on for the eyes and make little tongues hanging out of the little mouth. And I would make my siblings laugh with the, with the hand puppets. But that was it. I loved singing, but I, I did, I would never open my mouth to sing. But I would watch the Ed Sullivan show, or, or Mitch Miller, And I would mouth the words to the tv. And I thought the production numbers were so fabulous. And I loved costumes. Oh, I thought costumes were great. I never got tired of playing dress up. I always like to say, I found a way to get them to pay me to play dress-ups for the rest of my life.

3 (38m 44s):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So first day you're s you start classes. I know it's only the second class at NCSA. You go in, I mean, what were you thinking it would be like, because the story that Boz that I always tell is that my tea drama teacher in high school was the English teacher. So we just like learned our lines and we just did stood here and we just did the play. So it wasn't until I went to theater school that I learned about like warming up up space work and improv and all this kinda stuff. And it, it was, you were talking about a culture shock moving to West Virginia. it was such a culture shock to be like in movement clothes and all that kind of stuff. So what was your experience?

4 (39m 26s):
Well, I had a bit of a setup because this teacher of mine was also affiliated with a dinner theater in Williamsburg, Virginia. And right after the day after I graduated from high school, I left home and never came back. And I. I had an apprenticeship at Williamsburg at the Wedgwood Dinner Theater for the summer. And then I was going in September right to the School of the Arts. But the summer session culminated in a trip to New York to see three Blood Broadway plays. But in that, that apprenticeship, I mean, these guys were pros. We learned about professionalism, we learned, you know, everything. We had movement, we had speech, we had improv, we had our, our culminating the summit.

4 (40m 7s):
We had to put together an, an entire little production of our own. Each student had to do that. So I had, I had a professional setup. I wasn't like school. They toyed me as a professional, like a professional actor and So. that was just an amazing setup. And then to come to New York and see my very first Broadway show, first of all, I thought New York was going to be astounding because I thought when I was a little girl, there was this thing when you, you could send in box stops from serial boxes and get prizes. Well, it seemed like the address was always in New York. I thought, well, New York has all the prizes, so who wouldn't wanna visit there? you know?

1 (40m 44s):
That's, that's hilarious. What was, what was your take on New York and also what did you, what Broadway shows did you see?

4 (40m 51s):
I knew the minute I set Foot on the Island that this was where I had to be. I totally did. I never felt so excited and at home about any place in my life. I loved every second of it. I loved the crazy bustle and the noise and, and the theater. Oh my God. In those days, you could do standing Room for five bucks, you know, and it was just, I saw everything I possibly could. So the first thing I saw, a little hit called Man of La Mancha with Richard Kiley with and Joan Diener. And amazing years later I got to work with Richard Kylie So. that was pretty, pretty swelled. And I saw a PA Phoenix production of Wild Duck and with Ellis Reb and Rosemary Harris and all those people.

4 (41m 35s):
Well, all I wanted to do was be a member of the A PA Phoenix. That was, that was gonna be my company. Oh man, I, well, I was just thrilled with that work. And I. Think the other thing we saw was I do, I do with Mary Martin and Robert Preston.

3 (41m 49s):
Wow. Yeah. So you're what, so you're there, you're, you're amazed by the island of Manhattan. You're watching plays. You have some inkling that this is what you're going to do. Did you ever have a particular actor whose career you wanted to emulate? Or did you kind of figure it out as you were going along?

4 (42m 10s):
I figured out as long as I, as I went along, I think I did learn the most from watching other professionals. Always, always. And was very lucky to work with some astounding people. And, but I loved Class two Oh. my God, when I got to the School of the Arts, I felt Like I had been let out of a cage. I had no idea what I was in store for. Not the first clue. And I was a sponge. I couldn't, I would've licked boots to be near a theater.

1 (42m 37s):
What do you, do you think that, I can't help but wonder about You know your under as, as we say these days under-resourced childhood, basically poor, let's just say, you know, like, would, did that have something to do with, with the amount of sort of s sponginess once you got to School of the Arts? Or what do you attribute your like passion and desire?

4 (42m 60s):
Well, I didn't learn how to do anything else. And I didn't want to. it was all I wanted from the moment I discovered that I could do this and that people would let me do it, there was just nothing else. And I still feel that way. And, I just, I can't imagine doing anything else. I had a lot of crazy support jobs, don't get me wrong. But yeah, it was always about theater. it was always my focus. It, there was just nothing else for me. it was a calling that I couldn't deny if I'd wanted to. Okay.

1 (43m 29s):
So one more question about this. So when we got to school, my experience was that a lot of us were lazy. And, I, I mean this in the best way. You were not, we were lazy. And and you didn't seem like a lazy kind of student back then. Were, did you have classmates where you were like, oh, they're really just not, not taking advantage? Or was everyone really into it? I just wonder.

4 (43m 55s):
I was probably crazier than most because I was such a complete sponge. I didn't think about other people being lazy or not. I really didn't because I, I had two work study jobs. And I was full class load. 'cause I was trying to get my degree in three years. 'cause I had no money. Oh. So I had, I didn't have any cash whatsoever. I mean, when everybody would go out for a Coke, I couldn't go didn, didn't have a nickel for a Coke. Truly.

1 (44m 19s):
Wow.

4 (44m 20s):
And And I would, yeah, it was okay. I was completely focused on that. So you

1 (44m 25s):
Were single. Yeah. You were driven, like single focused to get everything you could out of North Carolina School of the Arts, and then go work professionally?

4 (44m 32s):
I, I never had a date. I never had a boyfriend. I never went to any social activities. I was always in Rehearsal or studying or working.

3 (44m 40s):
Wow. What about any, did you have any friction with your mom as you talked about picking this as your career?

4 (44m 47s):
I wish that my family had been interested, but they weren't.

3 (44m 51s):
So they were just like, you're on your own. Do whatever you want. Yeah.

4 (44m 55s):
There was no plan for me. No

1 (44m 56s):
Plan. There was no plan. What, was there a plan for your siblings who were male? Was that part of it? No. No. Just no plan. Okay. Wow. No plan. Well, you made your own plan.

4 (45m 6s):
People should never have been friends.

1 (45m 7s):
Yeah. We say that a lot on this show about people. Well,

3 (45m 11s):
And a lot of people who arrive in New York and feel that they're home. It's like, they call it the island of misfit toys. For that reason, you know?

4 (45m 19s):
Very good description.

3 (45m 20s):
And you I can tell by your backdrop, you are still in New York. You live, you live in New York. And so you stay, you've been there ever since and just, just gone places for

4 (45m 30s):
Work. Yeah, I did a lot of regional theater in my, in the beginning of my career. My fair, my very first job was with no union card or anything like that. I was at the Manhattan Theater Club. And they had, in those days, there was a dispensation where you could have so many non-equity members in the company. Well, will you hear this one? it was two Tennessee. Williams was one act plays portrait of a Madonna. And this property is condemned. Well, I did this property as condemned. And my director, I got this job because my director was one of my former acting teachers at the School of the Arts. And she knew that I had moved to New York and she hired me at the Manhattan Theater Club.

4 (46m 13s):
And in the second play, portrait of a Madonna was an actress named Olive Dearing. Now I think she was the sister of Arthur Penn. They were related somehow. But anyway, she and Tennessee Williams were old pals. And Tennessee Williams came. He came to the shop. Oh, and he came, yeah. And he came late, of course. He came halfway. This, this property is the first play. And he came in the middle of this property is condemned. And he told me they there later that he had never seen a production of this property. it was the first time. So he came in. Well, he starts laughing and having a wonderful time and being engaged with us. And I mean the whole audience looking and people are starting to recognize who the hell that is.

4 (46m 54s):
you know? So the second play, And I had a small part in the second play with, with Olive. Go

1 (46m 59s):
Ahead. Did you know on stage that you saw him come in and you were like, oh, there's the playwright. No. You were so into your work. No, that you, good for you because I'm not so good like that. So when I was in, into my play and a, a movie star came, I like totally broke. And it, you, you're a consummate professional, my friend.

4 (47m 16s):
No, no, no. I didn't know who it was. I just thought it was a late guy. I had no idea it was Tennessee Williams until after the show. Yeah.

3 (47m 23s):
Did he give notes?

4 (47m 24s):
No, but he gave a talk back. An instantaneous impromptu talk back.

3 (47m 28s):
Oh, tell us everything

4 (47m 30s):
Oh my God. So, okay. So we do the second play. And Olive is wonderful and everything, you know, And I have this teeny little part of her nurse, you know, and we're taking our bows and he gets up out of the audience and comes down on the stage and gives Olive a big hug. And he said, y'all wanna talk for a while. And so stage manager rushed some chairs out on the stage and we all sat down, he starts taking questions from the, an audience. And we were there for about maybe 15, 20 minutes. He goes, all right y'all, I think it's time to go and get something cool to drink. Sure. And So, that was that. Oh, I bet.

3 (48m 0s):
Yeah.

4 (48m 1s):
So then we went out drinking with Tennessee Williams.

3 (48m 4s):
Where did you go? We

4 (48m 6s):
Went to a bar somewhere in the neighborhood, and we were laughing and talking. Have a fabulous, I was Like I had my, I was, I had probably had drool coming. Wait,

1 (48m 13s):
Minute, minute, wait a minute. Cynthia, this is your first New York,

4 (48m 17s):
My first job. My, my first job. And you end up treat

1 (48m 20s):
Drinking with, with Tennessee Williams. And even meeting him is like, were you like, what is even my life Life? How is this happening to me? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, go on.

4 (48m 28s):
Sorry. Yeah. Oh, I thought, I thought I was on my way. Oh, please. So there's this talk about let's do an evening of Tennessee Williams won't acts on Broadway. I said, that's it. I'm on my way. Yeah. Well, it never happened. I starved for the next year and a half.

3 (48m 42s):
Of course, of course. Wait, what year was that? Because I'm gonna look and see if I can find anything about it on the internet and link to it on our show notes.

4 (48m 51s):
That would've been 1970. Let's see, probably about 1973, I think.

3 (49m 5s):
Okay. I think. Well, okay. So you spent the next year starting. We love to hear the struggle story. So tell, you know, and by the way, everybody who's ever had one modicum of success in the beginning of their career does the exact same thing and says, I'm on my way baby here. I'm just gonna sit here away for the checks to roll in. Yeah. And it almost never works for anybody. So tell us how it worked for you.

4 (49m 26s):
Well, I came to New York. I, my first job out of school was touring the nation with the National Shakespeare Company, So. that was an incredible experience. That was like, boy, that really completed things. Also be in the summer after my second year, I had a, a short summer session in England at the Rose Bruford Training School of Speech and Drama. Well, when I came back to the States, I thought between the training I got in England, the training from the School of the Arts, there was nothing I couldn't do. And I really have been so lucky. I've gotten to do everything from absurdist to Shakespeare to musicals. You name it, I've gotten to do it all. Amazing. And I had never sung or danced before. it was crazy.

4 (50m 7s):
So Anyway. I, I get, I lost my train of thought there for a second. You

3 (50m 12s):
Were touring with Shakespeare when you got out of school?

4 (50m 15s):
Yeah. So right after that tour. And you, thank you. Gave me the trigger. I, I have to wait for the, the train of thought to pull back into the depot. So I, I get on a bus, And I, go to New York. And after the bus ticket, I've got about $25 left. I had no job, no place to live. I, I had friends from college who had already moved here. And I thought, well, I'm just gonna couch surf for a little while until I can figure it out. But I was, I was too stupid to be that scared. And I just went after it. So I had two girlfriends who were living at a place called the Rehearsal Club on West 51st, between fifth and sixth, 53rd rather. Just

3 (50m 50s):
Sounds like some, a scene from the women. what is it

4 (50m 52s):
The Rehearsal Club come about? Well, it's just about is because the Rehearsal Club do, did you ever see the movie or the, there was the, the Edna Fur ber wrote the Play Stage Door and it was on, bro, it was a book that was a Broadway play. And then it was a movie. Well that theatrical boarding house was a real place. it was the Rehearsal Club. it was started by like Helen Hayes and Catherine Cornell and a bunch of other people from the Actors event, Episcopal Drama Guild or something like that. And fast forward to that. I've been very instrumental in resurrecting the Rehearsal Club. And I'll tell you about that later.

3 (51m 29s):
I love this. I cannot wait to hear about

4 (51m 30s):
That. Yeah, yeah. So Anyway, I called a couple of girlfriends who were living at the Rehearsal Club and they said, well, we're kind of full up, but come meet the house mother. Maybe it was something we can do. House mother took pity on me, put me in a room cot in a room with three other girls. And I had this room and two meals a day for about 60 bucks a week. Well I didn't even have the 60 bucks, so I gave them 10 tours, my food. And the next morning I went out and got the New York Times for the one ads and backstage for the auditions. And off I went. Well I got a job waiting tables down in the village right away. 'cause I happened upon a cafe that had just put in a sidewalk edition and they needed an extra hand. Just walked into it. So I was a waitress, I was babysitting.

4 (52m 13s):
I passed out pamphlets in Times Square, dressed as a gorilla for $4 an hour. I started a cleaning company, which I didn't even have a phone. I had, I made little business cards printed up, called Out Damn Spot. And me and two other actresses come and clean your apartment for 15 bucks.

3 (52m 28s):
That's perfect.

4 (52m 30s):
And between all those jobs, I could never get back to get my two meals at the Rehearsal Club. So I was, you know, but they would often save a sandwich for me or put some soup in the refrigerator. You know. 'cause I wasn't the only one in that position, you know, they were great. Anyway, they saved my life. I was only there for a few months when I finally was able to get enough money together to take an up, a rent, an apartment with a roommate. And off I went.

3 (52m 54s):
You know, you have said a few times about people who've saved your life. And, I. I understand that you've had champions, but you saved your life. I mean, you got yourself out of the situa, you know, where you were living. You got yourself with some help, but into that school and that, I mean, honestly, the number of people who spend one week in New York and say, Oh my God, what was I thinking? I just, you know. Yeah, it's, it's, you could, it could fill several, you know, phone books. So you have a lot of perseverance.

1 (53m 26s):
You also have so much, do you attribute, that's so much pluck. You're a pky

4 (53m 30s):
Person. Ah, I'm a survivor. What do you attribute? I'm a survivor from the core.

1 (53m 34s):
What do you, is it that sort of Midwest Detroit spirit? what is it?

4 (53m 38s):
I think I had one uncle who got out and he said to me over and over again, education is the way out. And it was a desperate situation in my family home. And I thought he could, he and he became very well off. He was the president of a company that made conveyor belts for the automotive industry in Detroit. And he was always my favorite. He was my father figure. And he, he just showed me that there was a way out if he worked hard enough. I think that was my example.

3 (54m 10s):
Okay. So you gotta tell us what you're doing now with the Rehearsal Club.

4 (54m 14s):
Okay. So how do, it's such a long story. How do I do Well,

1 (54m 19s):
Can we start with saying, can I live there

4 (54m 23s):
Possibly. Yeah. Yeah.

1 (54m 27s):
Tell us how you resurrected it or are trying

4 (54m 29s):
To, okay. So about, oh, about 13 years ago, the one of the women in the, one of the original residents at the Rehearsal Club had a tea party, Kathy Connery. And she said, let's get together and catch up on each other's lives and find out what we're doing. Well, they had such a good time, they decided to reform the club. So they formed a little club. There was no residence or anything. There was, there was the, the club actually was open from 1913 to 1979. So this, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, we formed a club. Elected officers we're paying dues. We are the Rehearsal Club again. Okay. it was always my dream to have that residence in place again. I just thought it was so important and it saved so many lives.

4 (55m 12s):
So many Carol Burnett lived there, Kim Cottrell, Diane Keaton You know, I mean, there's a huge list, huge list of people who lived there. So, Anyway. it was my big dream to get this going Again, And I think people thought I was nuts and they were right. But I was just really thinking about the residents. I really, And I felt this would be, this would make me feel great to give back. 'cause it really did save my life. And I was noodling around with the computer. One day, And I came across this organization called Volunteer, Lawyers for the Arts. And they helped artists who are known for not having particularly great business heads, yet their dreams realized in a legal manner.

4 (55m 56s):
So they were having a seminar for 75 bucks. And I thought, I'm gonna pony up and go take this. Just see what I can learn. So I went, And I came out of there with a packet of information about two inches thick. And I was so excited. And so I took it back to a Rehearsal Club meeting. And I said, listen, I found out about this place. And then, you know, they, they, we could go non-profit if we were became a non-profit company, we could get grants and we could raise money, and it would be all this stuff that would really help us get a residence resurrected. Well, eh, eh, eh, nobody really? Well what about this and who about that? And who's gonna do this? And I said, you know, you're right. We need more information. So I went back to the Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts this time with one of my girlfriends and said, what do we do?

4 (56m 40s):
We have this idea that we want to reestablish this theatrical residence for young women, and how do we even begin? So they took a meeting with us for about two hours around a conference table, answered all our questions. They asked us a bunch of questions. At the end of the meeting, they said, you guys should go non-profit. I said, okay. So we came outta the meeting and we walked out and my girlfriend said, our women are not gonna wanna do this work. I said, I know. So we took it back to the meeting, And I. She said, okay, you lead. No. Okay. So I explained what we learned, and we took a vote. Unanimous, let's go forward.

3 (57m 14s):
Wow. Everybody must have felt, everybody must have felt so invested. Are were the other people, people who had also lived there?

4 (57m 21s):
Oh yeah. We're all residents. All from residents. Oh

3 (57m 23s):
Yeah.

1 (57m 25s):
That's fantastic.

4 (57m 26s):
Yeah. So a year and a half ago, we became, almost two, two years ago now, we became a 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit organization. I had a, I recently had a very high profile job with the Marvelous Mrs Maisel.

1 (57m 39s):
Yes. Yes, you did. We, we gotta get to all your, there's a lot of high profile jobs in your, in your res on your resume there, my friend.

4 (57m 47s):
So what happened with the Rehearsal Club deal was I was at a gala, And I met an investigative reporter and she started chatting me up, asking a thousand questions. And here we are in the middle of this elegant cocktail party. And we're like, LA And she said, you know, I'm gonna give you my card. I think my paper might wanna do a story on you. I said, really? I said, who's your paper? She said, the New York Post And, I went, I put the card in my evening bath. Thought, well, that's that, you know, no. Three weeks later, she calls up, she's hired a photographer, and we go out for about five hours of taking pictures in front of where I had my first Broadway show and where the Rehearsal Club used to be. And then we ended up the post tea room at the back, at the paper. And she publishes this full page article in the post.

4 (58m 27s):
Well, my email box was exploding. My phone was ringing off the hook. We touched some kind of a nerve. it was just amazing. And this place called the Webster Apartments, which was a female residence that I had never heard of, got in touch with me and said, we should have lunch. We didn't know about you. And I said, well, I didn't know about you. So we have lunch. Find out that the Webster Apartments were built by the Rh Macy family to house their female clerks when they came to work at Macy's in New York.

3 (58m 54s):
You're serious. Yeah. They used to house their employees. Had no idea.

4 (58m 58s):
Yeah. So this beautiful, well, the other

1 (58m 59s):
Thing is, wait, I just have to interrupt and say Like I think this is such a beautiful thing for safety for women in big cities. Yes. Yes. Like this is, we don't do this at all anymore when in la, New York, Chicago, it doesn't exist. Certain people and women, no wonder women fall into whatever the sex trafficking situation is. Exactly. Exactly. Alright, go ahead. Sorry. I just had to say it's

4 (59m 20s):
Safety issue. Every city that has an arts community, I wanna see one in London. I wanna see one in Paris. I wanna see one in la. I wanna see one in Chicago. I wanna see one in Seattle. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if we have the model down yet for that, but,

3 (59m 34s):
Well, no, but you're gonna get there. And honestly, it's so important because basically, and, and as you well know, for certainly for theater, okay, well, if you're independently wealthy, then sure. you know, take your chance at being even in that among the 1% who can actually, you know, get repeat work or make a living doing it. And so this is such a huge barrier, and it's in, and by the way, it's like not even only big cities that people are priced out of. Right. Right. It's, people are getting priced out of any urban center whatsoever. Right. Like, it's, it's kind of pretty

4 (1h 0m 9s):
Dire. And imagine trying to plan a career in the performing arts in this country where there's no support. There's no support.

1 (1h 0m 16s):
You can't do it anymore. It's, it's, it's,

4 (1h 0m 18s):
It's, and who saved everybody's bacon during the pandemic, the performing artists?

1 (1h 0m 21s):
We did. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So here's my next question is you are now, we've, we've covered, I hope, what, first of all, what's the name of the nonprofit? Is it called the Rehearsal Club? Yeah. What's it called?

4 (1h 0m 31s):
The Rehearsal Club. Okay,

1 (1h 0m 32s):
Great. So people, we can find it online, I'm sure. Yeah. But yeah, go ahead.

4 (1h 0m 36s):
No, there's a, there's a, there was an article last February, I believe it was a three page article in the New York Times on this with pictures. It's amazing.

3 (1h 0m 48s):
Okay. We'll link to it. That's great.

1 (1h 0m 50s):
We'll link to it. So tell us about, yeah, so you've, now you're, let's take us back to, you are a professional working actor. You are clearly meeting very amazing artists. And how did you transition into like, the whole business of getting an agent, representatives and all that stuff?

4 (1h 1m 9s):
Another ridiculous story. And I got my, after that, you know, starving, after the Tennessee Williams experience, I went to an open call, a cattle call for a little show called Greece. Now, I was not particularly a singer or dancer, but I was going out on anything that I was remotely right for And I love to sing. And so I thought, well, let me just go to this cattle call and find out what it's like and what's required. So I'll know how to prepare and how to study to go that route, you know? 'cause I knew that the more things you could do, the more chances you would have to get hired.

4 (1h 1m 51s):
So I, I thought I was so smart. I had a giant coffee and a crossword puzzle. And my music tucked under my, in fact, one of the girls helped me put my music together in the parlor of the piano, the Rehearsal Club. And I'm standing in line at seven 30 in the morning, and there's 240 people in line at seven 30 in the morning. The call is from 10 to six. I people dropped out all during the day. I had to go to restaurants to go to the bathroom and ask people to save my place in line. Finally got in at to the basement of the Royale Theater. Now the Jacobs in the basement of the theater at quarter to six, 15 minutes left before they're gonna cut off. And I can hear the auditions going on up the stairs. And they were letting people do like two bars.

4 (1h 2m 32s):
And Thank you. I thought, oh, this is gonna be brutal, you know? So I get called up like five minutes and six, and it's like right out of a movie, this dark theater, one Ghost light in the center of the stage casting agent. Dear Vinny Liff out in the house surrounded by pictures and resumes. He says, okay, you wanna sing your, your up tune. Okay. So I sang, breaking Up is hard to do, and he let me get all the way through it. He didn't cut me off. And he said, that was great. He said, let me hear your ballad. And I sang where the boys are. He let me get all the way through that. He said, great, best audition I've seen all day. Come back Friday and dance

1 (1h 3m 12s):
Oh my God. At the end of the day, that is really saying something Cynthia

4 (1h 3m 17s):
Very dramatic. This

1 (1h 3m 18s):
Is like, this is so dramatic. And also you, it's like right out of a, it's like Barbara Streisand story, right?

4 (1h 3m 25s):
Oh yeah. It's a real soap opera. Yeah.

1 (1h 3m 28s):
And so you went back on Friday. Did you have to learn how to dance, dancing?

4 (1h 3m 32s):
Well, here's where I knew I was gonna lose it. 'cause I was no dancer. I was no dancer. I was a little overweight. In fact, my, my ballet master at the School of the Arts would come by and tap his baton on my butt and say, lock those deep potatoes. And he would say, miss Darlow, it's a good thing you're not blonde to boot. I was terrible. I was just terrible. Tay across the studio. Oh my God. But anyway, I thought, well, here's where I lose it, but I'm gonna go. 'cause I said I wanted to know how to prepare, you know? So I went to the call. Well, it was Pat Birch. She wanted people who looked like real teenagers, not dancer dancers.

4 (1h 4m 13s):
She wanted people who could move, who had a sense of rhythm. She knew she could train them. And, I got the freaking job. it was the first, oh my

1 (1h 4m 20s):
Gosh, tour. Wait minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait.

4 (1h 4m 22s):
Not the Broadway company, the

1 (1h 4m 24s):
National, so it doesn't National Tour of Greece as your job. What in the, it's like a ch it's like a fairytale. Oh yeah. So you did that for, how long were you joined?

4 (1h 4m 35s):
Oh, I did like five companies, five years of Greece. I did two national companies, a season of summer stock, and then three years on Broadway. And was Dan's captain,

1 (1h 4m 45s):
Wait, Broadway. Okay. So, but who did you play?

4 (1h 4m 48s):
Jan.

1 (1h 4m 50s):
Oh, Jan,

4 (1h 4m 51s):
Yeah. Which is a great part in the original musical was completely cut down to nothing in the movie, but we had this wonderful duet called Mooning. it was, it was great. Oh, that's fantastic. So yeah, we we're still very close to this day, the whole company.

1 (1h 5m 6s):
So you, you got an agent through that, like then you're

4 (1h 5m 9s):
No, no, not yet.

1 (1h 5m 10s):
No. Oh my. If you tell me like Walt Disney walks in and sees you and is like, I'm modeling Bell my princess after her. I would not be surprised. Okay.

4 (1h 5m 19s):
No, no, no, no. it was getting time. Five years of Grace. I thought, well, hmm, I wonder if I can do anything else. Will I ever be hired to do anything else or was this it? Well, it was, it was getting time that I felt that I should move on. And I decided to leave the show. Very brave move. No agent yet. But it was just time to move on Little knowing that the show was gonna close two months later. I didn't know that. But anyway, I called up Vinny Liff, who gave me the break in the first place. I said, Vinny, all this time, I never needed an agent who smart, what their actors, who should I see You? He sent me to the Gage group and they took me, I was with the Gage group for about seven years.

4 (1h 6m 1s):
And then I went on to, it was Bauman Hiller then became Bauman Rodi Shaw. And now they've merged. So it's now BRS Gage. So I've had the same agents for 55 years. you know, it's like,

1 (1h 6m 15s):
Holy guacamole. Yeah. This is a insane story. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about what you, what would you say the top thing is you learned from going to a theater school that you think you couldn't have learned anywhere else, but at NCSA? Well,

4 (1h 6m 32s):
Yeah, all the, the, the, the, the rounded outness I got, I mean, I, the theater history, the dance, the improv, the contemporary plays, just, it was just a hotbed of creativity. I mean, the people that came outta there were just astounding. Just the, the talent was off the charts. There is no shortage of talent in this nation. Wow.

3 (1h 6m 55s):
Yeah, that's definitely true.

4 (1h 6m 57s):
The discipline. I mean, I, I was pretty disciplined anyway 'cause I was desperate. But I did learn a lot about discipline and how to manage my time and Yeah.

3 (1h 7m 6s):
Yeah. And just working and working through, working

4 (1h 7m 8s):
Through. And they had guest artists too. And working with guest artists. Oh my God. it was amazing. I worked with Irene Daley, who did the subject with Roses on Broadway and won a Tony for it. And we did Mother Courage Together.

3 (1h 7m 20s):
Oh, I love that play. I love that play. So, just so you know, we You know we have been interviewing people and we're holding on to certain interviews until the strike is over. 'cause we wanna be able to talk about your film and television work. And of course, what prompted me to reach out to your people is the Marvelous Mrs Maisel, which you were so fantastic in. Oh, thanks. it was, was it a great experience? I mean, it really looked like fun, but I You know sometimes that's, that's an illusion. You doing a good job. Yeah, yeah.

4 (1h 7m 55s):
It was totally fun. it was an incredible thing to know you were going to go to work and laugh all day. it was one of the best jobs I ever had. They treated me anyway like gold. I had, you know, a very small part. And, but they were church and I loved the entire cast. They're such dear people. I never left work without a present in my hand. it was just astounding. I got, I got to go to the red carpet a couple of times. I'd never had that. it was, it was an astounding experience. And lifelong friendships were formed now, Tony, Shaloub, And I. When I left Greece, when I left Greece, I thought, well, I wonder if I'll ever get to do Shakespeare again.

4 (1h 8m 36s):
And I. Wonder if I'll ever do another musical. 'cause both were kind of fluky. And on the same day I was offered getting my act together and taking it on the road or as you like it, at the newly forming American Repertory Theater at Harvard in Cambridge. Well, I took a RT where I met Tony Shaloub and Cherry Jones was my roommate. And, you know, it was, yeah. We had an amazing few years together. Tony just reminded me when we, when we wrapped Maisel, he said, Cindy, you realize we've known and worked together for 43 years. I was Oh my God. So we had a little commemorative photo of that. you know,

3 (1h 9m 14s):
I love that about New York, by the way. Like. I. It just seems very specific to New York that you can kind of keep your community and keep running into people. Do you still do theater?

4 (1h 9m 24s):
Oh yeah. They'll let me, they'll

1 (1h 9m 27s):
See. I was gonna say that a similar thing. So you're obviously a New Yorker, you've been that way for a long time. Did you ever feel a pull to live in la? Was there ever like, oh, now is the time to become the next La Starlet? How did that go down?

4 (1h 9m 42s):
Well, I did it. I did I, for four years I was by coastal And. I worked. I, I worked at the Amon and the Mark Taper forum. And I worked all the time. I hated la it was the wrong energy for me. I couldn't stand being And. I had to learn to drive to go there. I didn't drive. And it was, nobody talked about anything but the industry. And it just, it wasn't for me. It wasn't for me. And the theater. I was lucky to be part of the best theater that they had to offer. But other theater I saw I wasn't very impressed with. And people were kind of too hungry. And it was more kind of a star focus as opposed to the old rep actor that I am, you

1 (1h 10m 21s):
Know? Yeah. There's a difference between a, a working actor who knows their craft and also is in it to make art versus to be rich and famous. Like, that's just a different Yeah, it's a different mission statement. you know what I mean? Yeah. And you can feel it. I live in LA and you can feel it when someone's like, their core is a New York actor who wants to work and make beautiful, meaningful art with people that they adore versus someone who literally wants to have the most toys.

4 (1h 10m 56s):
Yeah. I never really gave a rat's ass about being famous. I really set out wanting to be the kind of actor you saw in everything and was always good. But you can't remember their name. I had also, because I was in a big thing like Grease, where people became mega stars. I mean, you see this loft behind me that was built by Patrick. Swayze.

3 (1h 11m 14s):
Wait, what? Oh? my God.

4 (1h 11m 16s):
He was a carpenter on the side when he was a young actor. And I helped him. I, I saw him in what

1 (1h 11m 22s):
Is happening? How do you know? Is there anyone you know and has

4 (1h 11m 26s):
Uhuh? Ive been here for 400 years. They, we've at least brushed elbows, Oh my God. So yeah. So I didn't care about being gay. And I also saw a lot of people get really rich and famous And, you know, snort their entire fortune up their noses. And that was, I wasn't interested in that. I really, I love Rehearsal. I never want Rehearsal to end. It's almost a pain in the ass to have to perform. But then I love performing too. But yeah. Yeah. I have a very different focus. I really, I love the process. Oh. my God the process is what feeds my soul.

3 (1h 11m 55s):
Oh, absolutely. Can do. Do you remember, and can you tell us about your audition for the, people love to hear audition stories. So for the, for the Marvelous Mrs Maisel or for anything, any memorable audition stories?

4 (1h 12m 10s):
Oh, there's so many. There's so many. Okay. The Maisel one was really fast. I got a call through my agent, you know, regular audition went, there was a room, the, the, the, the Palladino's were there and the casting agent, that was it, the three, the four of us in a room. And they were at a table. I was in a chair. And I read the scene and they laughed. They liked it. And they said, we like to work really fast. Do you like to work fast? I said, Oh my God. Everybody's always telling me to slow down. Yes, I like to work fast. So, and they said, okay, let's, they have another pass of the scene. I did something that they almost fell out of their chairs.

4 (1h 12m 49s):
And the next day I got a phone call, I got the job. And I had no idea it was gonna be recurring. I thought it was a one season deal. it was such a small character. But the character somehow caught on And I mean, people know who that is. That people know who Mrs Moscowitz is. I'm just amazed.

3 (1h 13m 9s):
Yeah. it was such an important counterbalance for the Joel character. Yeah. I mean, it was, it, it it added that sort of perfect like acidity to that, you know, flavor profile.

4 (1h 13m 19s):
And Michael, you said is a dream boat. Oh man. Oh really?

3 (1h 13m 22s):
A dream. He seems it. Yeah. He seems it set. Okay. So you said you have a million stories. I'm sure there's some that got away.

4 (1h 13m 30s):
Oh yeah. Plenty. Plenty.

3 (1h 13m 32s):
Yeah. What, what's one of

4 (1h 13m 34s):
Those? One that just got away? Just got away. Sadly, I lost them my husband of 25 years, a year ago Tuesday.

3 (1h 13m 43s):
I know. I'm so sorry. Thanks. I'm so sorry. I was reading about that tough

4 (1h 13m 48s):
And this play came my way. And I thought, oh geez, I don't even know if I wanna do this anymore. Or if I can even learn lines You know. 'cause after the pandemic, it's been three years since I've done a play that's never happened in my entire career. I've never gone that long without doing a play. And I thought, well, I read the play. And I Uhoh. This is good. Okay. All right. I'm gonna work on this. Okay, so right my, okay, I'm gonna go in on this. Okay. And it was gonna be also the first in-person audition in three years. So I said, okay, I'm gonna go in. Well, I read the first scene and it was, you could have heard a pin drop it. it was a, it's a play I don Dunno if I should say 'cause it's not up yet.

4 (1h 14m 28s):
But it was a play about a woman.

3 (1h 14m 30s):
We can bleep it out if, or edit it later.

4 (1h 14m 33s):
Yeah. It's, it was called, it was called, not a comedy is one might think from the title. It's about a woman who's dying of ovarian cancer and it's a hospice situation and her family surrounding her and all kinds of dynamics are revealed and a deep family secret gets outed. And it was really an interesting play. I really liked it. So I did the first scene, pin drop director said, wow, that was really lovely. He said, would you mind taking a look at the callback scene? I knew this was a Monday. And I knew they were having callbacks on Wednesday. So I said, well, sure. I said, I have the scene. 'cause my agent sent it to me just in case, but I haven't worked on it at all.

4 (1h 15m 14s):
He said, oh, would you like to go out in the hall and work on it? I said, you know what? No, let's just dive in cold. I won't have time to get scared. Okay, so did the second scene again. Great reaction. He said, thank you. I just, I had to find a way to stay in the room with you. And I said, Oh my God. What a sweet thing to say. Oh, thank you. I thought, well, I'll dine out on that the rest of my life. And I, I I, I I, I knew the callbacks were on Wednesday. And I. I didn't get a call. So I wrote to my agent, And I said, here's what happened. I may have already had my callback, don don't know. Or they may be done and they've moved on. Could you just find out and let me know what the situation? He says, oh, no, no, no. You're still in the running. The playwright has decided to take a second look at some of the other characters in the play.

4 (1h 15m 57s):
We'll get back to you. Well, it goes on for like five weeks. don don't hear anything. I keep checking. No, there's you're still in the running. You're still in the running. Well, then they forgot and they had cast somebody. And a week later I found out that I was no longer in the running. They'd cast somebody else. And it made me really sad. 'cause I thought this would be such a great way to shoehorn me back into my life. It would've been.

3 (1h 16m 15s):
And it's just that thing of like, oh, we forgot about you because it's five weeks. And it's like, it's so many, so many factors way beyond your control. If they had been casting it right then it would've been a different story. Yeah.

1 (1h 16m 28s):
And I also think that it's good for us and our listeners to hear that someone who has had a tremendous amount of success like yourself also goes through things that are not only in this, in this enter in the, in the theater world and the entertainment industry are hard, but personally to know that like it's not all roses and you still keep going. Yeah. And you are still have an attitude that you have, which is super positive, but also real. And that doesn't mean that hard things don't happen amongst the Marvelous, Mrs, Maisel. you know what I mean? What you mean for sure.

4 (1h 17m 7s):
So,

1 (1h 17m 7s):
Yeah. Yeah.

4 (1h 17m 8s):
Wow. don don't know how people are getting, keeping going Right now with, with the strikes and the pandemic and the Oh. my God. It's just, I i I despair sometimes of how, why would you choose to go into the arts? You cannot make a living.

1 (1h 17m 23s):
Well, this is my question for you is now knowing what you know and where we are, 'cause a lot of times Gina And I will talk about is it, is are conservatory still needed? Is it still relevant? Should people still pay this massive amount to go to them? What is your thought on the state of I would say conservatory acting training at this

4 (1h 17m 46s):
Point? Yeah. I would say you don't, well, I didn't get my degree, quite frankly. I, I was there for three years. And I had driven myself into the ground, got really sick, got mononucleosis, had to leave. School was gone for about nine months. And I came back and said to the dean, what do I do? He said, well, Cynthia, I don't say this to many people. He said, are you interested in teaching? I said, mm, not really. He said, well, I don't think you need the degree. I think you're ready to go out and do it. And I did.

3 (1h 18m 17s):
Yeah. Because you, despite the fact that you didn't finish you, you gained all of that important experience and skills. Yeah.

4 (1h 18m 24s):
So I would say, I know everybody's different. Maybe people need to be in school longer. But I think a two year conservatory probably, if you still wanna do it after a really tough two year conservatory program, I think you're on your way. I don't think you necessarily need the degree And I think it should be more recognized to have guest artists in colleges and conservatories who have been out there doing it, who don't necessarily have a degree.

3 (1h 18m 49s):
They should take money.

1 (1h 18m 50s):
That's right. That's right. Because they won't, they, they won't have people teach unless they have MFAs a lot of times. Right, right. Exactly. And the people who don't have MFAs but are still like yourself, we wanna learn from them. Kids want and young folks wanna learn from them. It's Like I think it needs to be restructured. And I Think the days I do. Yeah. It's a different time. And yet we still need all those things. So I'll be interested to see where all of this goes. But you don't teach at all. 'cause you, I would take every class you taught.

4 (1h 19m 19s):
I, I did on as a s like, you know, I, I've also had to have side jobs through my career because theater doesn't pay. But it's what I, I, as I said, feeds my soul. So for a time, I, I have coached audition scenes. And I have taught voiceover technique. Well, when the, when the technology outran me, 'cause I, my students used to come out with a reel and ready to go and send it out. That's not possible for me to do anymore. And I was not going to in a one bedroom apartment. I'm not gonna, I, I can't even have a studio. And I do audio books. And I. I can't even, I'm in a first floor front apartment on a very busy street. There's no way I'm gonna get a professional result.

4 (1h 19m 59s):
So yeah, I have had side, but always related to the arts. So I didn't expect to love teaching. I loved teaching. I love working with audition scenes. And that's, I, if somebody called me And, you know, just to this day, you know, my peers who have children who now wanna go in the business, they'll send their kids to me for a coaching. And I have to say my record's pretty good. They almost always get a call back, if not the job.

3 (1h 20m 24s):
Oh, that's, that is a, an excellent record.

1 (1h 20m 27s):
Good to know. So

3 (1h 20m 27s):
What do you want, like what's left in your bucket of your, of the dreams that you have? Like what, what kind of stuff do you wanna do that you haven't had a chance to do yet?

4 (1h 20m 37s):
I love New works. I love new plays. Just this very afternoon I got sent an audition for something that I have yet to read. 'cause this interview was happening, so I haven't read it yet, but it, it's, it's a self tape, which Doesn just chaps me. I'm just so do, and now my partner's gone. So it's really hard. But my ACEs are kind enough to have set up a little studio in their office when they 'cause and they're not even in the office full-time still because of Covid. But they will let me come in and shoot it for me because it's just the technol, the technology of it, it destroys my scene and my focus when I'm having to worry about turning the camera on and off. It just takes me out of what I'm supposed to be doing. It's desperate. And I can't even get enough distance in my apartment to get a full body shot.

4 (1h 21m 22s):
It's a problem. New York

1 (1h 21m 23s):
Park. Yeah. Those full body slates make me wanna choke somebody.

4 (1h 21m 27s):
Yeah. My hu When my husband was here, he would have to pan up and down because we couldn't get enough distance. So yeah, I, yeah, doing new works. Doing new plays and this is a new place, so we'll see. That is my favorite. I love working the bugs out of a new play. Just my favorite thing to do. I would love to do another Broadway show. I've done 10. I'd love to have an even dozen before I go out and Yeah, that's great. Really, I will still do whatever anybody would hire me to do. That's what a whore I am.

3 (1h 21m 55s):
Yeah, yeah. No, no. That's what a, that's what a worker you are. Who are some, maybe some playwrights that people don't necessarily know about that you could shout out? People whose work you love?

4 (1h 22m 8s):
Well, I did, I was actually known for a while as being a Kris Durang actress. I did like five Kris Durang plays. I just adored his stuff. Just adored it. And I love Repertory acting. I, I was part of a, a, a company called The Actress Company Theater Tact was the acronym. I was a member of Tact for 22 years. I probably did 27 plays with them. And we were, we had, we were a company. We had like a shorthand. We'd worked together for all these years. And it was just, oh, I'm getting goosebumps even talking about it. it was just wonderful. And I loved having that artistic home. Oh God. It made me feel so safe.

1 (1h 22m 45s):
Yeah. I mean you, it's interesting. We all are looking for family in a way. Right. And a family. You found family in the theater.

4 (1h 22m 52s):
Yes, absolutely. Right.

1 (1h 22m 53s):
It's brilliant. And you like respected and loved the theater family so much that you soaked it all in and you do, you do right by it, which is fantastic.

4 (1h 23m 5s):
Well, the Greasers You know, we still have Zooms and we got one coming up next Sunday, I believe it is. We have a Zoom meeting about every two months. And we just had our book, you know, two years ago was our 50th anniversary of Grease and Tom Moore and one of the original producers, Ken Weisman and Adrian Barbo asked us all to contribute our memoirs and they assembled them into a book. And it sold out on Amazon in the first 10 days.

3 (1h 23m 32s):
It's called, oh my gosh. It's called Grease.

4 (1h 23m 34s):
Tell me more. Tell me more. It's a great read. It's a great

3 (1h 23m 36s):
Read. I'm assuming they're gonna do a reprinting.

4 (1h 23m 39s):
I hope so.

3 (1h 23m 40s):
I hope so. Oh, well this has been so great chatting with you.

4 (1h 23m 45s):
You guys are delightful. I did listen,

1 (1h 23m 47s):
Listen, we need you, people like you that are still theater actors that can also, of course do film and tv, but if the theater is to survive, this knowledge that you have over all these years is essential for, for people to to know.

4 (1h 24m 6s):
I hope so. I hope so. I think it's important too.

3 (1h 24m 9s):
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Are you on social media or do you have a website?

4 (1h 24m 15s):
I have a website that is in Fluxx right now. I'm working on it. It's Cynthia Darlow dot com. In fact, my, my webmaster just wrote to me and said, take a look. I've done some stuff. And I haven't had a chance to yet. 'cause I'm about to do. Okay.

2 (1h 24m 27s):
So coming

4 (1h 24m 28s):
Soon, I'm about to do a gal also for the Rehearsal Club. Also

1 (1h 24m 30s):
The Rehearsal Club. Oh, people, Rehearsal Club people. Everyone look up the Rehearsal Club non-profit because I'm sure you all could use some help from people and support to get this thing back off

4 (1h 24m 40s):
The ground for a second time. We offer an amazing deal. We, we subsidize rent and we offer workshops and mentorship and it's an amazing program.

1 (1h 24m 48s):
I'm going there right now. Yeah.

2 (1h 24m 58s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends I survived. Theater School is an undeniable ink production. Jen, Bosworth Ramirez and Gina Pucci are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited, and sound mixed by Gina. For more information about this podcast or other goings on of Undeniable Inc, please visit our [e-mail]. You could also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.