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The Why Distance Learning? podcast is for educators who are engaged with live virtual learning experiences, whether they be content providers who produce and facilitate or educators who want to complement their curriculum and learn more about the medium. We interview content providers, industry professionals, field experts and educators who love and use live virtual learning.
Dive deep with Seth, Allyson, and Tami into the rapidly growing world of synchronous virtual and online education. Through in-depth interviews, explore how educators are leveraging videoconferencing, interactive virtual learning, and other education technologies like virtual field trips to revolutionize remote and distance learning. Discover the benefits and challenges of teaching at a distance. Learn how virtual engagement can enhance traditional instruction. Hear from distance learning experts using the latest EdTech tools to create unique remote learning opportunities for students and teachers alike. From content providers to administrators to EdTech entrepreneurs, this podcast reveals the human stories and innovative technologies shaping the future of virtual and online education. For anyone interested in transforming classrooms and learning through remote digital platforms, Why Distance Learning? charts a path forward.
Hosted by Seth Fleischauer of Banyan Global Learning and Allyson Mitchell and Tami Moehring of the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration.
Seth Fleischauer (00:00.655)
Hello everyone and welcome to Why Distance Learning, the podcast for educators who are in gr - That's the second time in a row, guys. I'm gonna, okay, I'm gonna be better. It's the eclipse. It's the time of transition. Okay.
Allyson (00:06.744)
It's okay.
Sara (00:10.512)
Get a clip, it's not your fault.
Allyson (00:11.864)
It's okay, yes, just an opportunity for learning. Yes, and Mercury's in retrograde for two more weeks, so you know, there's so many things.
Seth Fleischauer (00:17.871)
...
Seth Fleischauer (00:22.063)
Hello everyone and welcome to Why Distance Learning, the podcast for educators who are engaged with live virtual learning experiences, whether they be content providers who produce and facilitate or educators who want to complement their curriculum and learn more about the medium. We interview content providers, industry professionals, field experts and educators who love and use live virtual learning. And today we have one of the best content providers, Sara Bermenco from the Center for Puppetry Arts.
Thank you so much, Sara, for being with us today.
Sara (00:53.36)
Thank you for having me.
Seth Fleischauer (00:55.407)
Uh, Alice and Tammy, we are recording this on April 8th, which of course is Eclipse Day. Uh, I mean, do you feel it in the air? Are people, are we, are we okay? We're in a time of transition right now.
Allyson (01:06.424)
Yes, of course, I definitely feel things in the air, but nothing to be afraid of. This is nothing that is just as other than just asking you to think internally. At least that's what I believe.
Seth Fleischauer (01:18.287)
Resident Astrologer Allison, basically every time before we start recording gives us all an informal reading and we appreciate that. Please reach out if you would like the same. And I assume that the eclipse buzz has faded by this time, but if for some reason the earth ends in the middle of our recording today, we tried our best and it was fun while it lasted. Okay.
Sara (01:20.4)
you
Allyson (01:27.288)
It's all in the stars.
Allyson (01:40.792)
We're an hour before, don't worry. Before it starts.
Sara (01:44.08)
We have time.
Seth Fleischauer (01:46.223)
Tammy, can you please introduce Sarah?
Tami Moehring (01:52.782)
I would be happy to. So, Sara started her career at the Center for Puppetry Arts in 2000 after receiving her degree in education. Her first position was in the education department where she was able to combine her passion for the arts as well as her love for teaching. Throughout her time at the center, Sara took many different roles settling into the digital learning department. In 2016, she became the department's director and has continued to expand its award -winning programming.
Digital learning is currently in all 50 states, has reached all 50 states and 90 countries.
Allyson (02:27.)
Yay!
Seth Fleischauer (02:28.751)
Wow, fantastic. The title of this podcast is Why Distance Learning. I would love to start off with the question, why puppets?
Sara (02:28.912)
Yay ants!
Sara (02:39.248)
Well, that's a good question. Why not puppet? Well, why puppet for me is so my background is education and when I was going through all the coursework, I love teaching kids. I feel like I was meant to do that. But during my student teaching, which I had two years of student teaching, I was like, I don't know how much we're actually teaching kids as much as we're doing like IEPs and behavior management.
Allyson (02:41.848)
Yeah!
Seth Fleischauer (02:42.223)
You
Sara (03:08.784)
I'm just not sure about this and my teacher, one of my professors is like, you can do so much with an education degree. And I was like, yeah, you can, you're right. And she said, reach out to other places. Now you may have also noticed that I have an unusual voice. And so I started doing voiceovers for cartoons and things like that. But somebody mentioned to me, wait.
The Center for Puppetry Arts, we're the largest organization devoted to puppets. We have it right here in Atlanta. They probably need puppet voices. You're like a puppet. So like, oh, wow, that's a great idea. That's a great idea. So I went, I came here and I found out that all of the voices are done live, which is something very special about us, but I'm not a puppeteer. You know, you may think that I have those skills, but I don't. It takes a lot more than you think. Cause when we think about puppets, I think about like, just like this, you know, what is that?
Seth Fleischauer (03:39.567)
Hehehehe
Sara (03:59.92)
But I found out that they had an education department here. And so I'm very artistic. And so I went to apply for a job. I got the job here. And then I've been here ever since. But what I love about staying here and puppets is that what's wonderful about puppetry is it's an international language. You can find it in every culture. And you can learn a lot about a culture and the way people live by looking at their puppetry. It's part of different traditions.
And I just think it's such a beautiful thing and puppets are accessible to everybody. When a puppet is just sitting there by itself, sometimes it's creepy, but everybody loves puppets. I'll say everybody does love puppets. So it's something that just really like, the way we use puppetry here, it's such an amazing access into helping teach students about so many different subject matters. So.
Tami Moehring (04:36.782)
you
Seth Fleischauer (04:37.455)
Hehehe
Sara (04:53.52)
I don't know if that answered the question of why puppets, but why still puppets?
Allyson (04:57.592)
I'm sorry.
Tami Moehring (04:57.998)
Hahaha
Seth Fleischauer (04:58.543)
Well, so it sounds like you're not a puppeteer, but as you voice puppets, you have a puppet ear, maybe?
Sara (05:05.712)
Ha ha ha!
Allyson (05:06.04)
Do you have a favorite style of puppetry? You mentioned how it connects to different cultures. Just wondering, since you are able to teach about so many different forms of the art form, I wondered if you had one or a couple that you were attached to.
Tami Moehring (05:06.286)
My...
Seth Fleischauer (05:09.231)
We'll play.
Sara (05:17.392)
Yeah.
Sara (05:24.432)
Yes, I actually do. So from the cultural perspective, I love the style called Bunraku, which is a Japanese style puppetry. And the term Bunraku actually comes from a specific theater in Osaka. And it's an it. It's been around since like the 1500s. And what's really special about it is that it takes three puppeteers to manipulate this one puppet. The puppets aren't that large. They're about this big.
and the time and energy it takes. And it's really, usually the stories are about something historical or things like that. It's just such a beautiful art form. And they train for about 30 years to become master puppeteers. They take it really, really seriously. And they're a simple rod puppet, but when you see the performance, you sort of forget that there's puppeteers there and the puppets really do come alive.
I'm just like fascinated by it. And they have a narrator that sits to the side and then they have a musician that's a shamisan player that really, you know, takes a whole different step. And a shamisan is a Japanese, it's kind of like a guitar but not, and it's a Japanese instrument. So that's culturally one of my favorite forms. I just find it so beautiful and it's very rich in the culture.
But as far as my favorite style of puppet, I love shadow puppets. I just think shadow puppets are incredible. You can use shadow puppets. I mean, anybody can make a shadow puppet. We've all been outside, especially on a day like today when there's an eclipse and the sun is doing different kinds of things. You can make different shadow puppets with your hands as the shadows start to leave, but it's just so accessible. And I just find them fascinating, especially when you're teaching any, any,
Seth Fleischauer (06:52.463)
Well played.
Sara (07:09.328)
or adult can use a shadow puppet and you can do it anywhere, you know, as long as you have a light. That's all you need. Yeah.
Allyson (07:16.28)
You
Seth Fleischauer (07:17.295)
Wow, so the moon as the heaven's biggest shadow puppet. I love that.
Allyson (07:22.68)
So many things in my mind, I was like, oh my gosh, because it's doing its own shadow show. That's what's happening right now.
Sara (07:25.104)
I'm going to go to bed.
Yeah, it's very apropos. But it's also the ancient form of shadow puppetry, right? I like think back to cavemen, which, you know, maybe they were making little shadows with the little flames, trying to talk to each other. I have no idea.
Seth Fleischauer (07:31.983)
So.
Allyson (07:44.184)
No, yes, that is exactly where my mind was thinking too. It's just technology is the new form that's available, the new technique that's available. So even read to clay is a technology. So thinking about using your hands, manipulating in different ways. So fun to think about how that ties you to history, art making.
Seth Fleischauer (08:04.815)
So, and I'm wondering, is that history, is that what you teach at the Center for Puppetry Arts? Like, take us through some of your programs.
Sara (08:12.912)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have some programs that are based solely on puppetry, where we talk about how different cultures use the puppets. Some are build programs, where we build, like for our middle school and high schoolers, we'll build puppets out of simple materials. I just taught like 12 programs to some high schoolers, and it's a simple puppet that's based on Bunraku style, but it's made only out of newspaper and tape.
So it's really accessible material that you use. But a lot of our programs are based on curriculum. So we tie puppetry into it to reinforce what they're learning. So we have science -based programs, social studies -based programs, language arts. Today, I just taught a bunch of middle schoolers about the history of Mexico, but through the art of the mask. Masks are considered a form of puppetry.
because the definition of what a puppet is is any inanimate object you bring life to. So when you put a mask on, you bring life to it. And so we learned about starting with the Aztecs into modern day Mexico. And we took a look at masks and how they've changed over time to represent the Aztecs and things like that. So we tie puppetry in different ways. We have a really popular program, Butterflies, which is about to, Butterfly Season is upon us.
And we teach all about that the life cycle of a butterfly, the parts of a butterfly. And as we do that, and during the program, we build a puppet, a butterfly puppet. So it really helps with the learning retention. So when the student goes home, they have this puppet, they learned about the style of puppet. And then they also learn the body parts of the puppet, you know, the migration of monarchs specifically in October. So they're, they're able to,
Hopefully somebody asked them and they're hopefully able to let the parents know I learned all this stuff through the puppet.
Tami Moehring (10:09.39)
I have to, oh, I was gonna say my first program that I ever watched from the Center for Interactive Learning Collaboration was the Center for Puppetry Arts program. And it was 15 years ago, and I still remember how the jaw of a spider works. Based on that program, Sarah, where you go like this, or you go like this, and I still remember it. So my kids actually know how a spider jaw works, thanks to Sarah and the Center for Puppetry Arts. So it does work.
Allyson (10:09.72)
love oh goats
Sara (10:28.24)
No.
Seth Fleischauer (10:37.903)
Hehehehe
Tami Moehring (10:39.086)
That's the only thing I know about spiders is I hate them. But...
Sara (10:45.168)
Change your thoughts after watching the program.
Tami Moehring (10:48.718)
No, but I have an appreciation for puppets though, about spiders.
Sara (10:51.92)
Well that's always good. At least you can do something.
Allyson (10:57.048)
I love the Center for Puppetry Arts. Your programs are so unique. And when I think of a really beautiful example of live distance learning or taking a live virtual field trip that's interactive through conversation, where you're getting live demonstrations or storytelling moments, and then you also are making something that guided hands -on experience, I think is such a powerful example of how this medium can be used. And I know that you said a lot.
I'm a big fan girl of all, pretty much all of your programs and also you as well. But I wonder since you have, your career is really connected to the programming that's been developed and performed. I wonder how many different roles have you taken on, if that's okay to ask about a little, and how many programs have you like started or?
Sara (11:29.936)
Nope.
Allyson (11:52.888)
started and seen evolve or advance through the years and makes you really happy to see.
Sara (11:59.568)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. So I started with in -house, doing workshops in -house, and that was really interesting because when you're a classroom teacher, you have the same kids, you know them. So it was great to go from in -house where what we do here at the center is if somebody comes to see, if the school comes to see a puppet show, there's a puppet that's built that goes along with the theme of the show. So right now we have like Stella Luna, which is based on the book. We've got the rights. Oh no.
It's so good. And then the students come upstairs to our education floor where they'll make a Stellar Luna rod puppet in about 50 minutes. So that was really interesting because it's like you really get classroom management skills like it's your job. And I feel like 80 % of teaching is management. Because we don't know the kids, they're coming in and you don't know them, but you have to definitely keep them entertained, keep them, you know,
Allyson (12:47.512)
Yeah.
Sara (12:55.856)
managed. And then from there, I was in charge of those programs for a while. I taught the programs and then I helped create some of the programs I built. I created some of the puppets that we would make for these.
different things, which is good because I'm not a public builder. I'm crafty, so all of the puzzles were simple enough for the kids to make. And then I came over to, I took a break and then I came over to digital learning. Now when we created our programs, because we've been doing video conferencing since 1998, which is really interesting. I know, it's really cool.
Allyson (13:36.12)
Yeah.
Sara (13:36.944)
know when I think about it because usually people after the pandemic they're like oh yeah like you guys just started doing this and I'm like 1998 some of you weren't born um
Allyson (13:46.712)
Yeah, it's been here for so long.
Sara (13:49.968)
And it's so bizarre because sometimes the people in the pocket you really weren't born.
I'm like so old. Anyway, so when we created these programs, it started out, what's really interesting about the history of this is that the state of Georgia came to the center and they said that they have these medical carts. It was through this organization called GSAMS, which they had these medical carts and that's usually how they used video conferencing back in the day.
for rural Georgia schools to get any extra help that they needed, the students. And they're like, they're just sitting here. Maybe we could do it for different things. So we worked with the Zoo Atlanta and we created programs and we worked directly with the teachers. So the teachers were like, this is kind of the content that we're interested in. And so we started creating this content directly with the teachers. And I think that's actually the key to our sustainability is that we weren't like, oh, this is a good idea. They're like, this is what we think they want. We were like, what do you want?
And so we created these sustainable programs that the students, I mean, after all these years, we've tweaked them. And I definitely have added different things to the programs that were already created, but the base of our offerings, of our catalog, it's still the same programs, believe it or not.
Seth Fleischauer (14:45.647)
Hmm.
Sara (15:04.208)
So while I've been here, we decided somebody had asked us, this always happens, I don't know if it happened to you guys when you were doing this, some school districts, like we'd love to book like all of our middle school, we wanna do like all the continents, do you have programs for all the continents? And we're like, no, but we can create some.
Allyson (15:05.176)
That's awesome.
Sara (15:25.264)
And so I was part of the creation of some of these programs that one of them that we had was exploring Antarctica, which became one of our staple programs, which is really exciting. And I learned so much about Antarctica that I didn't know. And yeah.
Seth Fleischauer (15:34.255)
Hmm.
Allyson (15:44.024)
That's, no, I was just thinking like that's such so fun to think about that you get to learn to you pick the topic you're learning from what you need, but those that you're serving really need and then you get to learn along to about continents or cultures or.
Sara (15:52.4)
Yeah.
Sara (15:57.84)
Yeah, it's really funny because to Tammy's point before when she was talking about the spider, my poor kid had suffered so much from that. Because it's like, I know about butterflies, I learned that in second grade, but I don't really remember all the specifics about it, you know? And then my poor kid, like during butterfly season, if there's a butterfly, I'm like, did you know that male monos, like everything is like...
Allyson (16:20.024)
It's good. At least that's what I tell myself. The one time I saw my daughter telling someone what dendrochronology was on a walk and I was like, maybe that dendrochronology activity that I made, I've been talking a little. But it's so good because then not only will they win like a quizzo in the future with all of the facts that they have and can share, but it's a fun way to know that you're really excited about what you learn about as well and want to share it in all the ways.
Sara (16:48.848)
Yeah, I guess that's a good way to look. But along with those type of programs, we've also, since I've been here, created, so we also do live puppet shows straight from our studio. So those were created just for our studio space. And right before the pandemic, actually, so we only, we generally just work with school groups or like senior homes or children's hospitals, you know, just groups in general. But.
Right before the pandemic, interestingly enough, I was like, we need to get to individuals. We had so many different opportunities. And so we were just starting to create some programming and then the pandemic hit. And I was like, I was ahead of my time. Who knew this? And so the pandemic hit, that was a little crazy. But I'm trying right now, something that we never really did is we're offering, because people either hate Zoom or love Zoom,
Most people with kids hate Zoom and people who spend a lot of time in meetings hate Zoom, but people that did connect and find different crafts like, you know, everybody made sourdough bread, you know, like they found something online to learn sourdough bread. So some people, like a lot of people are interested, like I don't have this in my area, maybe I can do this. So we started growing our some, we have an adult series of programs that we're doing now.
that we didn't have before and we're starting to grow that. We're starting to do some stream, which, you know, it's a live stream, so you can only get it live, but we're starting to do some of that from our main stage for some of our talkbacks that we do or our panel discussion. We had Dave Goals come through here. Dave Goals, if you're not familiar, he's actually one of the last original Muppeteers. He does Gonzo.
And so he came here and I'm like, we got like only people in Atlanta are getting this. So we were able to utilize our, you know, like live virtual field trips basically. And people online were able to ask him questions and things like that. So we're trying to do things.
Sara (19:01.2)
You know, one of my things is that I know it's a technology and people are using technology in different ways, but I still think like the beauty of our programs is everything's pretty simple that we do. We don't do a lot of green screen stuff or like we are the tech while we're doing the program too. So, you know, even something simple like doing a talk back or something like that and making it still live. Like, you know, I think that's really, really important. And I know that that's one of the things that you guys,
focus on is the live aspect. It's really amazing.
Seth Fleischauer (19:37.935)
Yeah, I think so I'm hearing. Oh, sorry, let me start over. It sounds like you have a lot of amazing programs, both that you do in person and that you do over a distance learning environment. And I'm wondering how you think about those programs differently. Are there I'm sure there are probably a little bit of overlap. Some make a lot more sense in person. Some make more sense online.
Tami Moehring (19:40.846)
Thank you.
Seth Fleischauer (20:03.119)
And I'm wondering if you've been able through your work to sort of draw some conclusions about like, this is the type of stuff that translates really well in the live virtual environment versus something that's in person.
Sara (20:14.416)
Yeah, yeah. And that's actually like something that we all started really noticing when the pandemic hit. I know everybody doesn't like to talk about the pandemic, but it does have a lot to do with how people view virtual field trips now and before. So what's interesting about the way the center sets up the department is that our department, our digital learning department is completely separate from the education department, which usually it's underneath.
So our programs have always been separated and what happened during the pandemic that was really interesting to me is first of all, we're like the lowest on the totem pole because there's so much going on on site. We have theaters, we have museums, it's not an offense to the center. We have an on -site education department that also does outreach in the community. You know, that's the main focus. That's where the money is and things like that. And then we're like in the corner.
Allyson (21:03.672)
Mm -hmm.
Ha ha!
Sara (21:07.504)
of the center doing our own thing. I mean, that's one of the things. So what was interesting during this center is like, we're usually ignored. And then, you know, when the pandemic happened, it's like, Sarah, what do we do? And I'm like, what is happening? People are listening to me. It's crazy. I don't even know. Like I was.
Allyson (21:23.032)
This email actually works when I send it to you and you're responding.
Sara (21:25.744)
No, no. What is happening? Actually, what was really funny is the day everybody's like, you know, we have the shelter in place. We were still here in the studio and our marketing department was like, we're not coming in. We're scared. And I'm like, we're spitting on each other during these programs while we're in the studio. Nobody cares. But we kept censored rolling. We just convinced ourselves it wasn't that bad. But I know I have.
Allyson (21:50.456)
Yeah.
Seth Fleischauer (21:51.247)
Mm -hmm.
Sara (21:54.736)
gotten a little off track but to your point so the education department was talking to us and what they wanted to do they're like we know what we do we're doing we know how to educate and they tried to do what they do in person virtually and you know when they were doing that I was like
Virtual is a completely different animal than in person. Some things you can sort of translate, but you have to adapt it that way. And that's one of the good things about me having taught in person here at the center and then translating it to like coming into the digital learning department because it's definitely something different. And, you know, one of the main things of in person that is different than when you do it virtual is it's just your
Allyson (22:35.032)
Mm -hmm.
Sara (22:43.856)
physical body being in the space with the kids. You know, when I was talking about management is a key thing. Like if something's happening in person, you just go and you stand next to the kid and they're like, oh my God, I'm going to be quiet. But virtual, it's a completely different animal and also what you can do in person. So there are some programs that like, for instance, here in person, we have all the materials for the kids.
to make and some of our adult programs that we have here, there's we have we have one coming up actually that's a complete puppet build where they're making foam puppets kind of like Muppet Styles. You cannot translate that virtually the same way. You'd have to adapt it in different ways and we have had some puppet builds that we've done but it's a completely different animal because it's like they have to get their supplies on their side.
They don't have the same tools that you would have in person. We're not going to have them by respirators. For instance, the programming is completely different. Our outreach, we go to the schools.
One of the things about this department that I feel very strongly about is we're kind of the face of the center to people who can't physically come here. So we're not gonna do the same exact programs that they do onsite if they can come here. It's something different. And our education department, they teach about puppets mainly, and ours are more tied to the curriculum, let's say. And so...
That's like a huge difference that I'll find, but definitely what we do in person, it couldn't translate directly into virtual. And we wouldn't want it to be a completely different arena that you're in when you're doing virtual.
Tami Moehring (24:33.422)
Thank you.
Allyson (24:38.936)
Oh, such important points and talking about the idea that you are the face. Uh, during the digital pivot or how I call the pandemic, the, um, idea when, when I was working with the team, I was on, a lot of them were also on site as opposed to virtual. And in some cases, people just didn't want to even be on camera. It just wasn't for them. So it is just those different strategies and how to get, get your teacher voice.
Sara (24:47.92)
Alright, that's all for today's video.
Sara (25:02.32)
Right.
Allyson (25:08.312)
or regain it in a new format, how easy it is, like the same thing as if you're in person to just kind of fall back and have it be more passive as opposed to active experiences. So challenging. So it's nice when people can have that expertise like yours to really depend, to hopefully collaborate, depend on and be able to bring that to fruition during that time and kind of keep some of that because in some cases you can even be more animated when you're onsite teaching using some of those virtual tools.
Sara (25:18.832)
Wow.
Sara (25:36.4)
Yeah, no, it's so true. I mean, that's one of the things that's interesting is that sometimes a teacher that's amazing in person doesn't translate on screen because, you know, it's just a different being. It's not just like knowing the knowledge and being good at explaining it. There's so many different things involved in being on camera all the time. I always am like, it's kind of like a stand, like I'm doing stand up.
Allyson (26:05.048)
Yeah, yeah, like.
Sara (26:05.904)
Some other time.
Seth Fleischauer (26:07.151)
Yeah, yeah. And can you dive into that a little bit more for us? Like, what is different about it, right? Like, you said it's kind of like stand up, but can you describe some of these things that like when you're in a virtual setting, this is what you need to bring?
Sara (26:12.656)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, one thing is, is I do feel like there's, like you definitely have to have the skills of also a customer service rep, I also feel. Because not only are you teaching the students, there's teachers in there who some of them aren't happy with technology, or they're a little nervous around technology still. So you have to definitely.
be able to manage their moods and things like that. So at, you know, like when you're a customer service rep, people get mad at you a lot, but you have to be like, it's okay, don't worry about it. You know, like that's one thing that I have to say is very different than when you're in person, because it's like if you're in your classroom or you come to somebody's classroom, you're in control of the classroom, like it's yours.
You're kind of a visitor when you're virtual. So you have to remember that and respect that and also understand that there's that whole side of things where teachers aren't super comfortable with technology, even though they've been using it since the digital pivot, which I shall not use that term. But as far as presenting, you definitely...
Allyson (27:18.072)
Yes. And maybe even before.
Sara (27:28.528)
say like you have to be animated in some kind of way. I have seen some instructors that we have had here that were more subdued and they did a great job too because that was their personality but they were able to engage the students a certain way. You have to also really go with the flow and when you connect you have no idea what you are going to get and just be fine with it.
I think that's something that's really, you have to be okay with the unknown basically of what you're going to and feel comfortable enough maybe not always knowing, you know, maybe not always having the answer when the kid asks you a question, you don't know. Because a lot of times like if we do, let's say the butterfly program again, they think I'm like expert on butterflies. I'm an expert on the content of the lab.
Allyson (28:18.968)
an expert on breaking this down as an educator to tell you how to learn about these.
Sara (28:21.456)
Yeah, yeah, I'm ready. Yeah, I'm going to show you where the head, the right and abdomen are and that's about it.
Allyson (28:29.112)
But it's such important work too because another part of your programs is that you really tell groups where the center is. If they find themselves, this is what our building looks like outside. This is what you can experience walking in. And that's such an important component because when you are distance learning, you don't have that entry experience. So you really work in that entry experience. What is your virtual entry experience? I think makes your program such a great example.
to help everyone know you're not a YouTube. You're not YouTube, you can't fast forward, we're really here. But do you think about that all the time too, like that virtual entry experience when you're...
Sara (29:03.184)
When you're done.
Sara (29:08.72)
I mean, I think, because I know TV in general, like when Miriam was little, we used to watch Dora the Explorer and she totally thought Dora was talking to her. She's so excited. And so I know a lot of kids have experiences with that, with the TV talking to them and they believe it. So I just want them to know, like, I really can see you.
Allyson (29:18.904)
Yeah.
Sara (29:30.032)
I really know you're here. Like one of my favorite things is when a teacher calls on the student and they say the name of the student, you're like, they're like Billy, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Billy, that's such a good answer. And you see Billy and he gets so excited. Like I know him. He's like, oh my God, how did you know my name? And I'm like, you look like a Billy. You have no idea what their teacher just said, Billy. But it's.
Allyson (29:48.76)
Yeah.
Seth Fleischauer (29:51.023)
Hehehehehe
Hehehehe
Sara (29:55.056)
Really about the connection and the interaction I mean that's one of the things that I've been struggling a lot with is is that people had really bad experiences doing virtual and What they call virtual field trips now is like a stream video on YouTube And I'm like that's not what it is. I know that is how I feel I'm like no, you know before it was trying to explain what I did before people knew what I
Allyson (30:14.424)
my heart.
Sara (30:23.152)
Zoom was and I'm like, it's like Skype, it's better. Now you like don't want to say it, it's like an illness, you're like, so, you know, like you want to like let people know what you do, but I'm just like, it's like having, you thought people finally understood when people had to go that route and now you have to, it's almost worse actually, because you have to be like, oh my God, it's not like that. Like.
Allyson (30:26.456)
You
Seth Fleischauer (30:26.543)
Hehehe
Allyson (30:46.68)
You
Sara (30:46.8)
You have to experience this. I just actually presented, I'm trying to get, so we do a lot of work with other states. We don't do a ton of work with Georgia schools. So there was, they just had a PD day for Georgia elementary, middle school and high school librarians, media specialists. I was like, I'm going there. And so I said, please let me connect. I'll show a little taste of it. I'll connect for my studio. And they're like, no, we want you there in person. And I'm like,
Allyson (31:05.592)
Ooh.
Sara (31:17.392)
But they're like we really want you there to meet the people and I'm like, yeah, that's probably a good idea and I'm like, well, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? So it was a nightmare, but I ended up I'll like can I have two rooms and they're like sure so I set up a mock studio And then the other room so I spoke to them and you know, they're all like
Allyson (31:18.04)
You're not getting the experience.
Seth Fleischauer (31:33.263)
Hmm.
Allyson (31:35.832)
Yes!
Sara (31:41.36)
smiling, you know, when I'm like, this is what we do. It's so cool. Blah, blah, blah. Pictures of the kids all smiling with their puppets. And you can tell they're like, oh, she's sweet that she thinks this is fun. And then I went in the other room and I did it, you know, and it was so fun to watch the teachers. I know that you guys have experienced this and they start interacting and engaging. And then when I went back into the other room, so funny, we enough, I got locked in the other room. So somebody had to come save me.
Seth Fleischauer (31:51.823)
Hahaha
Sara (32:11.568)
I'm like, I'm off here. I'm like, Mommy, I'm going to leave. I'm like, I'll come in and see you. And then I'm like, I'm off here. And I see you can come. But what was really cool is going back into the room after they experienced it. And you could tell they totally got it. They understand. And that's one of the.
Allyson (32:12.76)
This also helps in emergencies, this type of medium, see?
Sara (32:34.704)
biggest hurdles I find is that I can't do the demonstration for, you know, I can't have everybody connect to my studio to understand. And just talking about it, they don't get it because they had bad experiences or they just don't fully understand what it means to be interactive and live. And there's this false narrative out there of what a virtual field trip is. That's not, that's like a video. That is a video, stop calling it a virtual field trip.
Allyson (33:01.688)
Right, it's like, and we used to call them webcast, but they would still try to say virtual field trip. And you're just like, this is a vernacular argument we've been having for years. And then we come in like a wrecking ball and you're like, oh no, everyone is going to love it. It's great. See how much it's saving all of us and think about all of the, you know, gas not being spent and helping our earth. And if you wanted to even get even more meta outside of all the amazing connections. And then it's just like, oh no, no, no, no anymore. And you're like,
So it's like we're in that settling phase, like we're putting all of the pieces in place to build it back up, it feels like.
Sara (33:38.128)
It's so hard, it's just harder. I don't know, I'm struggling because right now I'm getting a lot of phone calls for the summer. This summer our education department is focusing only on camp so they're not doing any outreach or things like that. So they're getting a lot of calls like can you come do outreach at our camp and they're like we're sorry no try virtual.
And it's like, I feel like I am fighting everybody to try to be like, no, it's really awesome. They're like, no, we experienced some things and we don't just want the kids in front of a screen all day. And I'm like, it's not. I promise you. I was like, if you ever experience one of mine, your kids are going to be like so fired after it. I'm making you so much.
Allyson (34:11.128)
That's not what's happening!
Seth Fleischauer (34:14.159)
What's up?
Allyson (34:17.528)
And it's really not perp, when you think, when you really, when we take a step back from it too, it's having someone's experience influence a lack of skills being transferred to the younger generation. And that's always the challenge in the classroom. I think when you have a bad experience and that could be with PowerPoint, you could just be like, Nope, I use key. I use this version as opposed to this version of whatever platform.
Sara (34:34.512)
Yeah. Yeah.
Allyson (34:46.552)
it creates this like shutdown. Or even when we saw at the digital pivot, all of these publications are really quick articles coming out. This is the new model of learning. What? This is built off of years and years of models and framework. You had to cite it. It's in your citation. What? So it's just silly to think about how, you know, that one bad taste fighting that one, fighting away that one bad taste someone may have.
Seth Fleischauer (35:15.823)
Well, and so when you come into contact with these people who are more resistant to it and they ask you the question, why distance learning? What do you say?
Sara (35:28.464)
So there's so many facets to that question and so many answers that I can give. One is distance learning. One is because you can't come to the center. Like, it's not accessible to you. You're too far. Buses are too expensive. So you can get this amazing thing. And I find it, I was just thinking about this the other night. Field trips are so fun, right? When you were a kid, you're like, oh my God, I get to go on so much. That's so awesome.
So you go to like a museum or something like that. And it's, you're getting a tour of the museum, right? There's so much other stuff that you're focused on, right? The tour guys telling you this thing, you're in the back of the group. You're like, oh, look over there. Oh wow, look at the lights here. You're not as focused. When we come into your classroom, everybody is focused on us and we're focused on you as an individual, right? I'm the only person that they're focused on.
or what I'm showing them they're focused on. And I can see all of them and I can call on you and you're not distracted. It's almost a, you know, a better experience for what you want to do. I can show you the picture up close, you know, or the puppet up close instead of you being in the back or the glass is blocking you or whatever it is. I mean, it's an interactive, it's just amazing. It's, I feel like wide distance learning or, um,
because it's an interactive, only if it's an interactive live experience, would I say distance learning. I don't think that a virtual field trip where you're watching a film, no, I think go be in person. It gives you access to things that you can't get where you are or a different experience than you could when you come here. It's an extension, we have done that. So we just recently did a puppet show.
And it was based on the Green Book, a little children's book called Ruth and the Green Book about her story of using the Green Book going down south with her family. And one of the things that they were talking about is that because of the time of the shows, students don't have time to ask any questions, learn a little bit more about the history, why we did these puppets. So it's like, well,
Sara (37:40.144)
it gives you more time. We can set up these talkbacks virtually live with the cast when these students are already back home after they've had time to digest what they learned about, come up with questions. I mean, it's just an extension. If we did a talkback right after they saw the show, we may get different questions. They may not see it the same way. They may not have time to really digest the information and question it. I mean, there's so many different reasons why distance learning really is the answer.
Um, you know, I don't know. I just really believe in it. It's not just because it's my profession. I think it is like one of the most amazing things. This was around when I was a kid. I mean, to be able to like connect to NASA and talk to an astronaut. What? I mean, that is insane to see artwork and find out specifically about it. When I live in like little Atlanta, Georgia, you know, like there's the there's something happening at the Met that I've never.
you know, I never would have access to that. I only saw a picture in a book, you know, to talk to an expert in this field. I mean, that is amazing. And I can watch a video, but it's not the same thing as somebody connecting live. We are in the classroom with the students. It's as if we have just made that trip, you know, we're, you know, bring your parent to school day kind of thing. Bring your expert to school day. It's so much more accessible, I feel, than some of the experiences that you have.
If you actually go in person not that in person isn't awesome. It's totally awesome But it exposes you to a whole different world that you wouldn't have had access to we connect around the world We've done video conferences, you know with Australia. We went to the barrier reef. Oh my gosh I haven't been to Australia. That's so cool I just think that I I mean why not? Why wouldn't you just you know do distance learning?
Seth Fleischauer (39:35.727)
Well, thank you so much for that perspective. I hear a lot of the things that have been echoed when we've asked that question of our other content providers, the accessibility, the ability to find things that you would otherwise not have access to, those people, places, ideas. It sounds like you guys are doing the good work over there. And we appreciate you coming on the podcast and talking to us about that work. For our listeners, if you have a, sorry.
For our listeners, if you can check calc .org slash podcast, that is where you can find all of our episodes. If you like this podcast, please tell a friend or follow us, leave a review, leave a rating. These are all things that you can do that can help the algorithm introduce it to others. Please do check the show notes on that website. Thank you to our editor, Lucas Salazar. Thank you so much, Sara, for being here. We appreciate you coming.
Sara (40:32.72)
Thank you guys for doing this. I totally support you 100 % and I love you.
Allyson (40:35.96)
I'm sorry.
Seth Fleischauer (40:37.583)
Well, thank you, Tammy and Allison. And for our listeners, if you want to know the answer to the question, why distance learning, please check out the people we highlight on this podcast. These are the people who are leveraging this amazing technology to truly transform the learning experience. Why distance learning? Because it's accessible and it's awesome. See you next time.
Tami Moehring (41:00.398)
Bye.