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The only podcast covering all things Arizona State athletics! We bleed maroon and gold, and love talking about the Sun Devils no matter what sport.
David Howman (00:01)
Welcome one, welcome all back to another episode of the Echo from the Buttes podcast. I am your host, David Hellman, joined by my co-hosts Austin Bundy and Tom Harden. And fellas, it's finally football time again. We had our bye, you know, of course, I guess you had that huge win, the Jeff Sims legacy game, and it brought us all back up. We all felt great about this football season again. There's hope. Things are still alive for the season.
⁓ There of course there were some some different things that happened this past weekend in Big 12 football while ASU was sitting on their couch watching, healing up and resting up in their buy and now we're back and ASU is back at home as well. They're taking on West Virginia. We've got plenty to break down for this game for other Sun Devil ⁓ athletics going on. Guys, how are you doing? It's been a little bit since we we hopped on and talked about it. We also treated ourselves to a bye week.
resting up as we get into holiday season, flu season, all of the above. How are you all doing? you all feeling healthy, ready to close out the football season down the stretch?
Tom Hardon (01:13)
Absolutely, it's exciting coming down to the wire and it's nice to have a little bit of hope left in the season. Albeit, still need a lot of help to get to the Big 12 Championship game, but there is a path there, it's a narrow one. But it's exciting knowing that Arizona State has secured bowl eligibility and is...
And has something, you know serviceable more than serviceable in in Jeff Sims, you know the season looked to be very much on the ropes and there was lots of Concern lots of you know potential jumping ship with with Sam going down for the season but Jeff stepped up in a big way as we as we discussed at length last week coming out of the game and you know, I I think that
Arizona State really has something in him for the rest of the season. I expect that there's going to be a lot more of the playbook open to him this week against West Virginia. And I think that this, you know, this is a game that isn't necessarily a tone setter, but it's a game that, you know, it's a game that Arizona State has to have. It's not a game that the Sun Devils can come in and be thinking, you know, oh, you know, we had, had this great win in Iowa, at Iowa State.
two weeks ago, we're riding high off of that, we're just going to ride that wave. No, this is the time to put the pedal down and win the winnable games, and this is a very winnable game.
Austen Bundy (02:51)
Yeah, Tom hit it right right on the head there. ⁓ This is a must. It's a lot of coaches don't like to give you that this is a must win, especially when you're up against a lower opponent. They like to call it taking care of business, but for ASU it's both. It's a must win game and you have to take care of business. This is an opponent you should beat even if it's just Jeff Sims under center. I mean, if anything, the expectations have gone up from where they were last week. ⁓ But yeah, I mean we're all.
little more rested up. took things ⁓ a little literally with the bye week and went to the valley last weekend to rest up. Met up with Tom and Andrew over at the ASU hockey game on on Saturday. So that was fun. ⁓ So if they had been playing the football team, I definitely would have snagged some tickets to go. But we had a bye week. It was good rest up and now we're all ready to go here for the for the stretch. And I think ASU is going to give.
the big 12 a scare here. I know I'm usually the pessimist around here, but the way that this college football season has been shaping up chaotically and the fact that the last couple of weeks have had a little bit of a tamer feel to them across the board, I think we're in for a little bit of a surprise down the stretch. I think ASU could maybe, even if they don't make the big 12 championship game, I think they may play spoiler for a couple teams down the stretch here.
David Howman (04:15)
Yeah, going back to how you were in Phoenix and the three of you guys got to meet up, first of all, my invite must have gotten lost. I don't know what happened there. But since you guys all met in person for the first time, I need to know who's the tallest.
Tom Hardon (04:31)
Oh, Andrew by far. I mean, he makes me feel short and I'm 6'3". It takes a lot to make me feel short.
Austen Bundy (04:32)
Andrew by far, yeah.
Yeah, I see myself in the picture and it's just like, all right, I guess it is November. Santa's going to be calling for me to head to the workshop at some point.
David Howman (04:41)
Okay, so...
I'm
Okay, so we've established Tom near 6'3", Andrew's taller, Austin is I guess 6'2 or shorter.
Austen Bundy (05:02)
It's very, very generous of you. I am a very ⁓ exaggerated five-seven.
Tom Hardon (05:09)
We can get you a box for next time.
Austen Bundy (05:11)
What does he to crop it out?
David Howman (05:16)
Yeah, well it's funny because I had seen, ⁓ like literally a week before you guys all met up, ⁓ Andrew had posted something on his Instagram story of him standing next to somebody else and I was like, dude, you're really tall. How tall are you? And ⁓ I'm a pretty tall guy too, Tom, I'm also 6'3". And depending on the kind of shoes I wear, I'm up to 6'4". So just depends on the day. ⁓
And I think it's just because he's the youngest of the four of us. I just assumed he was not short, but like definitely not as tall as he is.
Austen Bundy (05:57)
Still growing.
David Howman (05:59)
Yeah, yeah, he's still, he's drinking his milk every day, getting those bones strong, getting big. ⁓ So.
Tom Hardon (06:06)
He hasn't
been crushed down by the weight of life like we have.
David Howman (06:09)
Yeah, I mean, he did live through the 2023 season, so I guess that started him off right, I guess. that was a fun time. I'm glad that you guys were all able to meet each other. And again, I think I need to update my address for next time. ⁓
Austen Bundy (06:09)
You
Tom Hardon (06:34)
Well,
I'll make sure the pigeon finds its way.
David Howman (06:37)
Yeah, perfect. ⁓ But this is kind of a big game. Like you guys said, it is a must win just because they're already kind of, they need some help in order to get back to the big 12 title game. ⁓ so they really can't afford to lose anymore. I mean, the odds are not great right now anyway. So if you lose another game, regardless of who it's to, you know.
the odds get much much worse and especially against a team like West Virginia who ⁓ You know, they they they've had some games here and there that they've been closer than it should have been but then they've also had games that Wasn't as close. I mean they lost to Ohio earlier in the year and that's a team that they should never lose to ⁓ But one of the things that I'm most ⁓ I guess excited but also partially kind of scared about
is the fact that this is a sort of a homecoming of sorts for West Virginia with their head coach, Rich Rodriguez, who, I mean, he's a West Virginia alum, so him going back to West Virginia where he coached once before, it's a homecoming for him going to West Virginia, but he also was previously the head coach at Arizona. And, you know, he took over there right at the same time that Todd Graham took over at Arizona State, and they had some very, uh,
interesting clashes over that span. Of course, Todd Graham got the final laugh winning that last matchup against Rich Rodden, his Wildcats. But there was also the game where, that I was present at down in Tucson where they just got absolutely ran over and literally didn't throw a pass the entire fourth quarter because they were beating us so bad. ⁓ So it's gonna be interesting to see kind of.
how things go with Rich Rod coming back into Tempe. ⁓ It's fun because of, I feel like the rivalry was a little bit more fun when he was the coach there just because of the style of play he brings. But it's also scary because of that same fact for me.
Tom Hardon (08:49)
You know, the thing for me with Rich Rod, he's, despite the fact that he coached for Arizona, he's a coach that I always had a high level of respect for because of the integrity that he brought to his game and just the energy with his coaching style. And he's able to get the best out of his players. And I could look metaphorically across the sideline and...
see Rick Rod there and I'm like, okay, this is a coach that is going to give it his all. And that's what I like the most about him ⁓ as the opposing coach.
Austen Bundy (09:29)
Yeah, I wouldn't call this like one of those games where you have a returning demon type of deal. Because I mean, ASU's record against Rich Rod speaks for itself. ⁓ But it is one of those like maybe a bad penny situation where ⁓ now it's like him coming back. It's this nostalgic reunion type of thing where like, like an old foe, now new dress, new garb, new team, everything. So.
That'll be interesting. It'll be a nice little full circle moment. Hopefully ⁓ ASU can maintain its legacy over Rich Rod when he comes to town with the Mountaineers.
David Howman (10:09)
Yeah, know, Tom, it was funny, I was laughing a little bit when you said like, I've always respected Envy's got such integrity. I think Michigan fans would disagree based on his tenure there.
Tom Hardon (10:20)
⁓ trust me, I
grew up watching Michigan football and I think it was about a three year stretch that he was in Ann Arbor. Those were some tough Wolverine teams to watch. all that aside, being able to compartmentalize the different eras of his career, I can push that away and just focus on what he did head to head against Todd Graham.
David Howman (10:32)
and
Yeah, well, I mean, anybody who can get Khalil Tate to a point where people are saying he should win the Heisman, it takes a certain level of coaching ability to do something like that.
Austen Bundy (10:57)
Gosh, I remember
that Sports Illustrated cover.
Tom Hardon (11:01)
I think we've all got it saved somewhere in our photo albums just to bring out for special occasions.
David Howman (11:05)
yeah.
Yeah, I remember week one of this season, there was, because you know, before the season started, you know, there was a bunch of hype about Sam Levitt. He was a Dark Horse Heisman contender. And I had even, I had written an article about like Sam Levitt, he should end up winning the Heisman. Obviously, you know, he hasn't played at a Heisman level even before the injury. ⁓ But during
the season opener, when he threw the first interception, there was some, ⁓ some U of A account on Twitter that, that responded to one of the, one of the devils in detail tweets, something about Sam Levitt being a Heisman contender. And, and they were said something like, ASU fans are so stupid. Like they're, they're saying that
a garbage player as a Heisman contender, like we would never do that. And I just responded with that screenshot of the Khalil Tate Heisman Magazine cover.
Tom Hardon (12:14)
I remember that poster just kind of like this to you.
David Howman (12:19)
Yeah.
Austen Bundy (12:21)
caught him in 4k
David Howman (12:23)
But, you know, as much fun as it is to clown on that rival down in the dirty tee, ⁓ West Virginia is not Arizona. They're a different kind of bad. They haven't been a very good football team this year. And granted, it's year one for Rich Roddy's changing things up ⁓ with the program. He took over a program that's kind of fallen.
fallen from glory a little bit from the data Holgersson days. Is there any concern about this being a trap game? Austin, I know that's kind of your jam. We even said before the game, or before we started recording, I looked at the spread and ASU's up to a 10 and a half point favorite, which has gone up since it was earlier this week. And without hesitation, Austin was like, uh-oh. So.
Austin, think I know where you stand on this, but feel free to prove me wrong.
Austen Bundy (13:24)
Well, if we played Houston two weeks ago, I would not have seen this as too much of a trap game. But the fact that they've now won two in a row, including one over a ranked Houston team that beat us. Yeah, the trap game value is skyrocketed. So that's where I said this is not just a take care of business game. It's a must win game.
because the stakes are too high, especially when you're going to look at an opponent like West Virginia that's been in the basement of the Big 12 for the last few seasons, despite this being Rich Rod's first year. He seems to have found something that has made them click in the last couple of weeks. And we're now at the critical juncture of where they've got to prove. Are they streaking? Have they found something? Or was this just a fluke type of right opponents, right time? A lot of things just go in their way.
And ASU's got to have to do their own homework on this and engage to the point where they snap that streak and say, no, we're the better team. You're still the basement dweller here. ASU can't walk into this game with an overconfident mentality. And I don't think they will, considering the fact that injuries and everything, and next man up attitude, the fact that Jeff Sims.
has to come in here and prove himself that he didn't have a fluke game last week. He needs to be able to lead the team, still have that chip on his shoulder. The whole team's got to have a chip on their shoulder because everybody else is writing him out of the Big 12 race. Nobody's including them as a dark horse anymore. It's just kind of mathematically they're on the fringe. This is the biggest opportunity ASU has to make a statement that they're still here. They're not going away.
a win on Saturday reinserts them firmly into that race and it's just keep doing what you're doing. can't control what else happens in the rest of the Big 12 race, but if you keep winning, you're still gonna stick around. You're still gonna be there in the standings and be a threat to go to Dallas.
Tom Hardon (15:31)
Listen to your point of rich rot having found
David Howman (15:32)
Yeah, and speaking of the...
Tom Hardon (15:38)
Austin, to your point of Vertrod having found something, he's found two somethings in this team. Scotty Fox Jr. and Dior Hubbard. Both are coming off of back-to-back Big 12 Freshman of the Week performances. And it's too early to really say that these guys are gonna take them the rest of the way and help them win out to get bowl eligibility, but you can't discount...
what they've done. have Scotty Fox go out there in his first start and he's throwing 41 passes and it's in a loss to TCU. The next week, they then pare down the playbook to bare bones, give him only about six or eight plays to run with, and he's surgically effective with those plays. And he does what we've been preaching that Sam needed to do and what?
We'd like to see Jeff Simzoo and that spread the ball around to his targets. In all three of his starts, at least six receivers have caught at least one pass. And in that first game against TCU, nine different receivers caught a pass. It's just the quick learning and I'm almost going to say forced maturity to really just jump in and get to playing form.
is what's impressed me the most about about Scotty Fox back at quarterback. Now, ⁓ their original backup quarterback has been rumored to be on the mend. I'm not sure if he is set to be healthy for for this week or not, but he would provide a little bit more of a running component, which is what Rich Rod wants to to run in his offense primarily. But with Fox back there, he does have a little bit of running ability, but he is much more of a thrower.
He's going to hurt you from the pocket. He's not necessarily going to kill you with his feet.
David Howman (17:43)
Yeah, I mean, it's going to pose a few different challenges for ASU's defense. And that's why it's a good thing that ⁓ one of the players that they are getting back for this game is Prince Dorba, their defensive end. ⁓ Certainly going to be excited that he's coming back. Jordan Tyson won't be coming back yet for this game, not coming back against West Virginia, which...
You know, obviously that is the challenge for this offense, among other challenges, is being able to move the ball without Jordan Tyson being out there. But it also sets up an interesting scenario where he comes back for the Colorado game. Of course, Jordan Tyson having initially gone to Colorado before he transferred to ASU and sets up the potential for a really, really fun revenge game ⁓ going up to Boulder. That's neither here nor there. That's for, you know.
That's a surprise that we can talk about later on down the road. But it'll be nice to have a guy like Dorba back. This defense has already been playing at a high level, getting him back on that defensive line, especially against an offense like this mountaineered offense with Rich Rod at the controls. There's always something that he's going to throw at you that is just going to catch you off guard a little bit.
No matter how much scouting need you, no matter how much game planning you do, there's always something that he has in his back pocket to throw at you. And it's the kind of offense that you really need all hands on deck for. having previously mentioned the Big 12 standings and everything, obviously West Virginia is not really in it right now, but they're kind of relishing the chance to play spoiler. ASU is kind of sort of in it. We've been talking about it. ⁓
But there was a bit of a shakeup this past weekend where BYU has now lost. So they of course fell to Texas Tech, which means Texas Tech now sits with, not necessarily commandingly, but they do have sole possession of first place in the Big 12 right now, because what, they're six and one in the Big 12, BYU and Cincinnati are both five and one. So again, we still need some other teams.
to start losing. It doesn't look like it's gonna be Texas Tech, although they do close out the season on the road against West Virginia, so Rich Rod may be able to help ASU out after all. After this passed by, can watch, sitting back and watching the rest of the Big 12 play at other slated games, how are you guys feeling about the Big 12 as a whole right now, and where we're headed towards Dallas?
Tom Hardon (20:35)
You know, the only game that I watched over the weekend was Colorado and West Virginia, mostly because they are Arizona State's next two opponents. So that's not going to give a really great barometer of the conference as a whole. But what I did see was two not very good teams. You saw, I just sang the praises of Scotty Fox, but on the whole, I'd...
not see anything that is truly threatening about West Virginia and their style of play. I saw that they really hammered going with Dior Hubbard both on the ground and through the air. But what I really did see too was West Virginia did jump out to that lead and they have that capability of running out and hiding for a little bit.
but I did see them let off the gas and let Colorado get back into the game. So that is, that's what my takeaway from this past weekend's games was.
Austen Bundy (21:46)
Yeah, and looking at the standings just with. ASU being on the buy, they dropped down from having been in fourth, I believe going in the last weekend now into 6th. I agree with you David, it doesn't look like Texas Tech is going to be a team that loses another game this year, so they're clearly going to Dallas. If there's any cracks in this, mean, she's got to win. It's it's gotta win out and it's going to need some help because.
Houston and Utah have the tiebreaker over ASU at the moment. So you definitely need them to lose at least once. And then with BYU and Cincinnati each only having one loss, and I believe they play each other at some point, don't they? I think BYU and Cincinnati will play each other in the next couple of weeks. Yes, they do. They go to Cincinnati. ⁓ And then...
David Howman (22:36)
Yeah, I think next week.
Austen Bundy (22:42)
you need TCU to do you a favor to do us a favor at one of these next two weeks because they play BYU this week and then they'll play Cincinnati right after Thanksgiving. So it's possible that any one of those two teams ends up with three losses in the big 12 here. However, that's a big F. So it's
This is just one of the situations where if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. But all the ASU can hope for is just to finish off their season strong and end up going to a decent bowl game with.
Seven wins.
Sorry, seven, that's seven conference wins, but you ended up with nine, nine regular season wins.
David Howman (23:32)
I
was like, I know you're pessimistic, god, only one more win the rest of the way. Okay.
Austen Bundy (23:38)
Hehehe
I know I
keep forgetting when you're at these standing, that they give you the conference standings first before they give you the total and I had to scroll over and realize, oh no, we're already poll eligible.
David Howman (23:50)
Yeah
Yeah, well, I mean, and you said, you know, a issue right now is six. Technically, they're tied for fifth with Utah, but Utah has, you know, the head to head. So yeah, you're I guess you're right. But also, I mean, so Utah losing would be nice because they have that head to head. Houston losing would be nice because they have that head to head. But it if
Houston and Utah and Arizona State all finished with two conference losses and BYU and Cincinnati both finished with two conference losses or even one of those two. ⁓ It doesn't necessarily mean curtains for ASU because the tiebreakers, so according to the Big 12 tiebreakers, I've got it pulled up because it's very complicated stuff. But when there is a tie between more than two teams, which is this is what we saw.
last year there was a four-way tie at the end of the regular season. ⁓ The first tiebreaker they're going to evaluate the records of the tied teams will be compared based on winning percentage in games among the tied teams. So you'll go by record or winning percentage of those of all of those ties tied teams against each other specifically.
And it says if all teams involved in the tie did not play each other, but one team defeated all other teams involved in the tie, the team that defeated all other teams in the ties removed from the tiebreaker and the remaining teams revert to the beginning of the applicable tiebreaker process. And if all teams involved in the tie did not play each other and no team defeated all other teams moved to the next step, which is.
Austen Bundy (25:29)
What does that mean?
Is this a board game?
Tom Hardon (25:40)
Let
me do my best trophy day.
David Howman (25:41)
the records of the three
or more tide teams.
The records of the tied teams will be compared based on winning percentage against all common conference opponents played by all other teams involved in the tie. And then there's a whole bunch of other ones that goes down there. Eventually we get down to ⁓ a total number of wins in a 12 game season. So their overall record would start to matter. If that still doesn't work, then we get highest ranking by sports source analytics.
a team rating score metric following the last weekend of regular season games. I've literally never heard of sports source analytics. And if all that fails, the final result is a good old fashioned coin toss.
Tom Hardon (26:27)
I was about to ask where does the coin toss come in?
David Howman (26:31)
So that's option G.
Austen Bundy (26:35)
God.
Big 12, the board game. Break more friendships than Monopoly.
David Howman (26:40)
Yeah.
Tom Hardon (26:41)
Just once I want to see
any typewriter go down to a coin toss
David Howman (26:46)
It would be so fitting for the Big 12 to be the one to do it too.
Tom Hardon (26:50)
mean, ideally, it's tiebreaker that Arizona State's not involved.
Austen Bundy (26:50)
How do you do a coin toss between... How do you do a coin toss between like three teams?
David Howman (26:59)
I think Brett Yormark just does it. In his room, he does the coin toss and then he lets us know. It's like electing a pope. The smoke starts billowing out of the Big 12 headquarters and comes out and announces who it is.
But all that to say that while yes, a loss for Utah, a loss for Houston are both good because they have that head-to-head tiebreaker, it's also not the end of the world if they don't as long as there's another team in there who also, I realistically, even in a three-way tie between Houston and Utah and Arizona State, if somehow BYU and Cincinnati both drop below them with three conference losses, ⁓
I mean, I truthfully, I don't know how all of it, all this mumbo jumbo works out if it's those three teams that are tied. But point being, there's, there is still a chance, even though we're sitting at six, it'll, it'll get messy and complicated. And that's what we love about college football. ⁓
Tom Hardon (28:05)
I have
the easiest solution of all to this mess. Just win.
David Howman (28:12)
Yeah, low-hanging fruit, Tom.
Tom Hardon (28:17)
And to take care of what you can in front of you on the field and let the rest of it shake itself out. I guarantee that Coach Dillingham is not bending himself into pretzels to go over these different scenarios with the team. He is concerned with the immediate right in front of the team, and that's West Virginia. So we can talk about this all day long, but I guarantee I know that the team is not going to.
David Howman (28:46)
Yeah, I mean, that's I'm pretty confident in that guarantee as well. Another factor since you bring up Kenny Dillingham that could be a factor in this game too, is the report that he's been going around two different position groups for the football team the last couple of weeks and telling them, yes, I am going to be here next year. I'm coming back next year. And there's been a lot of speculation about, you he's been listed on coaching hotboards for Penn State LSU.
Florida, Auburn, but he's been going around and telling people, no, I'm staying at ASU. I'm coming back next year. To which the battered fan has said, he only said he's coming back for next year. Where's he going in 2027? But I think that is also that that's something that can't go understated to because obviously every single coach is going to say, you know,
Austen Bundy (29:30)
haha
David Howman (29:43)
⁓ I'm not thinking about that. We're just focused on the season, blah, blah. But also for Kenny Dillingham to sit down with players and say, I'm not considering other jobs. I'm staying here. I'm coming back. I think that helps remove any other potential distraction, especially going into the bye week, because you don't have a game to prepare for. It's a lot easier to, ⁓ as Nick Saban would say, take the rat poison.
and take that kind of distraction and hear like, man, keep saying Dilliam's taking Penn State job or whatever. I think that may add a certain level of extra oomph to the team of like, we got our guy. We know he's sticking around. Like he wants to be with us. Let's go out and play for him and finish this season out strong.
Tom Hardon (30:35)
And it speaks to his character of just wanting to promote the best team environment and team atmosphere as possible. Players are going to want to, they're going to, they want to know that their coach is invested in them. And this...
action by Coach Dillingham lets that team, lets the team know, lets all the different position groups know that yes, I'm investing in you and ask that you invest the same in the collective team unit.
Austen Bundy (31:12)
For sure. Like you said, it's a character thing and this is the type of guy that you want to see invested in the program. You want to see invested in the school and the community. ASU has not necessarily had a guy like that in a long time. We haven't had a coach where you can point to him and be like that. Like when you think ASU, that's who, that's just the first face, the first name that comes up. You don't have the iconic face of a program.
that other blue bloods have had for a long time now. And Kenny, I'm sure, views himself in as humble fashion as possible, that he can be a ⁓ Dabo Sweeney. He can be a Nick Saban of Tempe. I'm not saying he's gonna reach that Hall of Fame type level, but when you think of Arizona State football, he wants to be the coach you think of immediately when that name gets mentioned. And he's off to a pretty good start with... ⁓
last year's season. mean, this year riddled with injuries, but it's not like he regressed to a point where it's like, last year was a fluke. This team had it stayed healthy, I think would have been up there with Texas Tech and BYU and potentially had a pretty complicated three-way race going right now ⁓ if guys had stayed healthy and things had gone a little smoother. ⁓ But Kenny's the guy.
in Tempe and I think he knows it. A lot of people in that locker room know it and I think everybody in the Valley knows it. So to see him really reinforce that and be Mr. Tempe, be Mr. Sun Devil here for the community. Like that's exactly what you want out of out of a coach and it's really refreshing to be able to have this guy.
leading our sideline, leading our guys on the field there. this is something, it's a stepping stone for the program because there's less anxiety, at least for now, but there's less anxiety and the program can at least point to him and be like, well, like we have our guy. This is the program is going to build around him. The recruiting is probably going to benefit, especially from that type of news.
⁓ I think it's only going to benefit Kenny when he tries to expand the borders of the recruiting battles anyways. I he's already done a great job in Texas and Southern California. Just imagine what you can do if he ⁓ starts getting a little, starts encroaching a little more in the Midwest. I mean, who knows? He could start poaching some Big Ten recruits and start turning ASU into a real threat.
David Howman (33:42)
How soon we forget Dennis Erickson as Mr. Tempe, though.
Austen Bundy (33:49)
That's fair. in my defense, I did say it has been a while. Not that we've never had anybody like that. It's been a while.
David Howman (33:57)
Yeah, well, I just remember, you know, with Todd Graham, every single time that there was a head coach opening for any Texas school, there was also the same level of worry. And it's funny because like, because now we're in a point of worrying about Kenny Dillingham getting poached to go somewhere else. I mean, when was the last, I know the answer to this question, by the way, I'll see if you guys do, but when was the last time that an ASU coach actually got poached to another job?
as opposed to just getting fired. then, mean, Todd Graham eventually went on to coach at Hawaii, but I think he took a year out of football before he got that job. But like, who was the last coach that actually left ASU for another job?
Tom Hardon (34:44)
talking about head coach only or any coordinator.
David Howman (34:46)
Head Coach.
Austen Bundy (34:49)
I don't know anybody before Erickson and after Kush, so.
Tom Hardon (34:55)
I'm thrown out a guess of John Cooper.
David Howman (34:58)
Yeah, yep, John Cooper, he, which by the way, John Cooper took the ASU job from Tulsa, which is right in my backyard. ⁓ And of course, when he was the head coach at Tulsa, he had a linebacker there by the name of Lovey Smith. ⁓ Fun fact for those who didn't know, Lovey Smith also later coached very early on in his career at ASU because of his connections with John Cooper. And then of course, John Cooper went to the
Tom Hardon (35:09)
and
David Howman (35:28)
went to the Rose Bowl, I think he also went to the Fiesta Bowl, and then left for the Ohio State Jump.
So the more you know, and it has been basically instability ever since then. There were some good years under Bruce Snyder, some good years under Dirk Cutter, some good years under, I think one good year under Dennis Erickson and Todd Graham. then I think it went straight into Kenny Dillingham after that. So. ⁓
Tom Hardon (35:55)
Yeah,
there's a gap after Todd Graham.
David Howman (35:58)
Yeah, we took a break from football. Wynn's got vacated, so.
Austen Bundy (36:01)
Those are redacted.
David Howman (36:08)
⁓ but yes, it's... What's that?
Tom Hardon (36:08)
Didn't Todd Graham come from Tulsa as well?
Didn't Todd Graham follow the Tulsa to Tempe pipeline?
David Howman (36:17)
Well, he first went Tulsa to Pitt for a year before he came to ASU, so there was a buffer.
Tom Hardon (36:20)
That's right.
Austen Bundy (36:21)
Okay.
Tom Hardon (36:23)
Mere details.
David Howman (36:24)
Yeah. Yeah, he had the one year at shot a text to all of his players before he left, came to ASU, and almost didn't even do it because ASU almost ⁓ hired June Jones instead. Yeah. I'll save it for another show, but my hot take is that June Jones would have been a better hire than Todd Graham. We'll get into that another time because... ⁓
Tom Hardon (36:39)
God, I remember that.
David Howman (36:53)
That's I think that probably deserves its own one-hour special but Point being Kenny Dillingham were you know, whether it was Todd Graham before him or June Jones or whoever ⁓ Kenny Dillingham is where he's meant to be I think he knows that now the players know that I think that's gonna add an extra level of emphasis going into this game against West Virginia, but that's not the only
ASU sports that we have going on. Of course, ⁓ you'll see coverage on all of it at Devils in detail from all of us. ⁓ You'll see some stuff from Tom about hockey, who's got a big weekend coming up. We've got, of course, we're recording this ⁓ Thursday night. So women's basketball is playing against San Diego. They're about to tip off. ⁓ So I'm hoping that as people are listening to this, it's coming off of a win. ⁓
Undefeated, hopefully that's still the case as we're coming to you Friday morning. Men's basketball is undefeated. They're definitely gonna continue that against Gonzaga. ⁓ They don't stand a chance, Gonzaga I mean. But Tom, tell us a little bit about this weekend trip for hockey.
Tom Hardon (38:01)
It's a very, very big weekend trip going up to North Dakota, playing for the first time in the Ralph Engelstad Arena. And for those who aren't familiar with the college hockey landscape, Ralph Engelstad Arena is a shrine of college hockey. is considered a badge of honor to have been able to play in that arena. You're playing in front of 13,000 fans. It's the largest arena in NCAA hockey.
It's almost to, you know, NHL crowd sizes. So it's going to be loud. The fans are going to be rowdy. North Dakota has I'm going to just say point blank. They have the best fans in college hockey. They travel like no other. They pack opposing arenas to the point where it is almost a almost a home game when they're on the road. But watching a game I've never been to rough in this arena, but watching games there on TV.
It is something that I really want to experience. I wish I could have been up there to experience it firsthand this weekend, but I'll save that for another season. North Dakota comes into this weekend ranked number six in the nation and they have been playing a lot better than the polls will give them credit for. ⁓ Credited much to the incoming freshman class of Keaton Verhoff and Will Zellers.
plus some plus some returning players like Jake Lovanovic and Abram Weeb and Was helping the transfer portal from another former Arizona State goaltender Gibson Homer now two years ago TJ symptom Felter Transferred up to North Dakota to play out his his final season of eligibility Now Gibson Homer has followed the Tempe to Grand Forks pipeline, but you know
I am looking instead at a freshman goalie who has been playing much better for North Dakota and Jan Spooner. ⁓ He is just lights out near impenetrable. ⁓ It's going to be tough no matter who is in net. You know that Gibson's going to want to get one game in net against Arizona State just to play his former team, even though North Dakota will be returning to Tempe in January for... ⁓
to complete out the home and home series, but this is exactly the type of series where Arizona State can steal one game if not steal the entire series. It's, I'm gonna go full on, I'm not saying what I'm saying here. Through 10 games last year, Arizona State was three, six, and one, same record as this year through 10 games. You had...
David Howman (40:44)
you
Tom Hardon (40:55)
weekend series immediately following split Arizona State split with Omaha in their NCHC home opener last year before traveling to Denver and we all know what happened knocked off then number one ranked Denver ending their 12 game winning streak to start the season starting the ride up towards the top of the NCHC standings Who's on the schedule for next weekend Denver comes to Tempe
This is why I'm saying I'm not saying but I'm saying it's shades of last season that are I'm not going to say it's exactly a trend, but I'm optimistic in the way that it is trending. I'm looking for for a much improved power play. North Dakota's penalty kill is subpar only killing off 75 % of their penalties. They do have a dynamic power play. They're
ranked in the top 10 in the nation and Arizona State's penalty kill is around the 50 % mark. They're coming in at number 30 out of the 63 teams in Division 1. So special teams will be a major factor for both sides this weekend.
Austen Bundy (42:12)
I'm going to jump in there and add on ⁓ zone entries. I think is going to be one of those underrated metrics that one of those underrated quantitative metrics that everyone needs to take a look at because just from watching them in person on Saturday, it looked like their zone entries were lackluster. They weren't able to get in and for check effectively. They were not able to hold on to the puck.
and establish a lot of serious possession in the ozone until late in the second period. And for most of the third period, they had a good solid onslaught of offensive opportunities in the third period because their possession got a lot better in the ozone. But just noticing from the jump, the entries were not clean. They were not able to keep things in the zone. ⁓
They were very susceptible to breakaways against Colorado college. And that's something I feel like they're not going to survive if they're going to play the same way against North Dakota, because unlike Colorado college, North Dakota is going to bury a lot more of those breakaway shots. They've got more efficient shooters. ⁓ if ASU is going to do what this trend is saying, I think they're going to have to play lights out and it's all going to start with the basics. It's going to start with being able to have clean entries, getting bodies.
on the boards and crashing the nets. The one thing I think I was disappointed in watching them in person is they don't crash the net enough. They don't get enough guys to the front and screen the goalie. It seemed like they were playing five wide the entire time passing around and just trying to throw a couple pucks on net when they got a perfect opportunity. And the only reason I observed that a little bit more maybe is just because myself being a Washington Capitals fan, I've watched that team.
not necessarily play very well crashing the net. And then just last season, they get a lot more bodies on net and they're scoring a heck of a lot more goals. Coincidence? I think not. So I think ASU has got to do a lot more of crashing the net. They need to send more guys into the crease. need to screen the goalie and have more guys out front for anybody who's around the perimeter to just throw the puck on net and try and get a tip on it. ⁓ If they're establishing a solid four check, if their possession is clean in the Ozone,
It's not going to matter if two of your guys are in the middle and there's more of their defenders that are able to maybe take something away on a rebound. You need to have more opportunities of throwing something on the net because the putt, like the goal only counts if the puck goes across that line. It doesn't count how many minutes you're going to hold it and pass it back and forth in the ozone before finally deciding to take a shot with a few seconds left on the power play. mean, these are the basics that I think coach powers.
needs to instill and focus more on in practices. ⁓ And I think if they really buckle down on those things, the goal is more those goals are going to come.
Tom Hardon (45:06)
And it's easy for me to say from my seed in 106, multiple opportunities where somebody on the perimeter can fire off a shot, but there's too many shots that get passed up for the extra two, three, four passes, and that leads to those breakaway chances that you were talking about, Austin.
David Howman (45:26)
I had the same note. I'm also concerned about the ozone and ⁓ the... I'm on the same level as you guys when it comes to hockey terminology. So I'm glad we all agree on that.
Tom Hardon (45:41)
I do want to give.
I do want to give a huge shout out to Samuel Urbán for his play, especially on Friday night. Arizona State did come away with a tie and got the extra point in the shootout win. So while it still goes into the overall record as a tie, two points in the standings for the shootout win. But after allowing three goals on the first 10 shots he faced Friday night, he stopped the next 27 shots in regulation and overtime plus two
other shots in the shootout to to help get that that shootout win. He was not named one of the stars of the game. The three stars went to the offensive playmakers in Jack Beck, Bennett Schimek and Cruz Lucius. But I for one thought that he should have been worthy of an honorary star at the very least for keeping Arizona State in the game as much as he did on Friday night. And he even he even kept
The Senna was in the game on Saturday as well, making saves that really he had no business making coming across the crease. He's showing incredible mobility and incredible just presence in the crease to get to get from one side to the other and cut down on those angles and minimize the scoring chances that opposing players will have. It's just at the at end of the day, sometimes the chickens come home to roost and one one chance is one too many.
David Howman (47:13)
Yeah, I mean, and you know, I may not know as much in depth about hockey as Tom and Austin, but I do understand, you know, the basics of wins and, you know, like Tom was saying, this is kind of the, sorry, Tom wasn't saying this, but this can be the beginning of another run like we saw last year for this hockey program. And ⁓ it really is gonna be kind of the first,
big weekend for this season for Sun Devil Hockey. ⁓ So if you don't already have plans to watch, change that, go ahead and watch it. You can find out how to watch it at Devils in Detail, ⁓ courtesy of Tom. And you'll get lots of coverage of hockey as well as men's basketball, women's basketball, and of course football as they take on West Virginia. ⁓ From all of us writing on Devils in Detail and then of course talking about it here on Echo from the Buttes. ⁓
So until next time when we're breaking down all these different glorious winds ⁓ over West Virginia, North Dakota, Gonzaga, all of them, for Tom Harden, for Austin Bundy, I'm David Hammond. Signing off from this episode of Echo from the Buttes, give them hell devils.