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The Leadership Sovereignty Podcast helps high-performing professionals use leadership as a career growth strategy β not just a skill.
Leadership isnβt just a skill β itβs a career strategy for professionals seeking growth, influence, and promotion.
Hosted by Ralph Owens, Chief Information Officer, and Terry Baylor, CEO of a healthcare technology startup, the podcast delivers practical, real-world leadership strategies you can apply immediately. Each episode focuses on increasing visibility, navigating corporate dynamics, preparing for promotion, and leading beyond your title.
Expect short, high-impact conversations designed to help you think, act, and position yourself like a senior leader before youβre given the title.
Youβre not just an employee. Youβre the CEO of your career.
New episodes are released weekly.
Shachella James (00:00)
a little friction is good. I mean, friction in the sense that your question is just counter to the opinion and the popular thought in the room. just a little bit of a contrarian and you will be amazed at how quickly that creates, I think, traction in the room.
Ralph Owens (00:17)
Mm-hmm.
Shachella James (00:18)
Curiosity literally changes everything. I think it opens doors. It fuels creativity and handled correctly. It is definitely a trust builder.
So that has helped me.
in the workplace more than many people would ever know in terms of even building resilience and getting up and now I'm getting ready to go through this 12th half marathon to those things. The curiosity, I know we were talking about promotion is why am I even doing what I'm doing? You can lock in, lock into that then decision making becomes so very easy. So it is, yes, very good.
Ralph Owens (01:21)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm. Wow.
So good. That is so good.
That's powerful. So as we continue to transition here, what are your top three curiosity-driven leadership principles? You've talked about a few, but if you had to leave somebody with three, what would be those top three leadership-driven principles around curiosity?
Terry Baylor (01:36)
Yep. That is great.
Shachella James (01:59)
You know what, I wanna fall back on some of the things we said earlier and then just weave back in all the nuggets that we've been sharing. Bring other people along in terms of curiosity. β Asking those questions so that individuals are growing and that you're actually challenging the status quo would be β very important, but... β
Terry Baylor (02:12)
Mmm.
Shachella James (02:28)
Go deep on learning as opposed to having all the answers. Go deep on elevating other people so that they're growing from your questions and don't feel interrogated by it. Again, it shouldn't feel like an inquisition. It should feel very much like a conversation. And sometimes you can see that light bulb go off in people's heads and eyes that you have really asked something that has challenged their thinking.
Terry Baylor (02:37)
Mmm.
Ralph Owens (02:44)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Shachella James (02:58)
and encourage them to β help somebody else in terms of thinking and thought processes as well. And I would also, in terms of a leadership principle, is encourage people to ask other people one bold question every week.
Ralph Owens (03:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (03:17)
Mmm.
Ralph Owens (03:18)
Mm. Mm.
Terry Baylor (03:19)
Mmm.
Ralph Owens (03:20)
It's good.
Shachella James (03:20)
β
And I say every week, but make it every meeting. Even if you go into a session and just be just a little bit prepared, maybe that's your preparation. It's just, I'm gonna leave that room depositing one bold question that that would be another leadership principle. Go prepared and have those questions ready, at least one.
Ralph Owens (03:29)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (03:41)
Mmm.
Ralph Owens (03:50)
And when you frame up that bold question, because I think that's powerful, β for someone who may not be active in the meetings and don't really talk, and they have to do this, that can be scary, right? When you frame a bold question, what do you mean by that? Give me some context there.
Shachella James (04:09)
All right,
so some people might call it crucial conversations. β Maybe it is a way to...
Ralph Owens (04:13)
Mm-hmm.
Shachella James (04:21)
counter what they're thinking. I say a little friction is good. I mean, you can call it antagonism, but that's such a negative connotation. But I mean, friction in the sense that your question is just counter to the opinion and the popular thought that came in the room. Be just a little bit of a contrarian and you will be amazed at how quickly that creates, I think, traction in the room.
Ralph Owens (04:27)
Okay.
Terry Baylor (04:27)
Mmm.
Ralph Owens (04:39)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. That's good.
Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (04:52)
I'm sorry, can I interrupt just one quick second there? So I don't think I asked my question the right way. What you're answering now is kind of what I was looking for, right? So you have questions that inspire, there are questions that are, to your point, a little opposite of the mainstream of what everyone's thinking in the room. What are those kind of questions that folks should be thinking about? So there's the question that
Shachella James (04:56)
Go! β
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Terry Baylor (05:21)
you know, okay, we're gonna divert from the main, you know, theme here, right? Or whatever one's thinking. Then there's a question that causes everyone to think. Maybe there's questions that calls for unity, right? What kind of questions, different frameworks of questions along those lines that you've used, you know, throughout your career, right? To have to shift the room, right?
Shachella James (05:23)
.
There's a lot of people who are in idea of a I a good I think that's a good thing. I a I think I I thing.
Terry Baylor (05:48)
Kind of like a good musician, right? know, Ralph and I, use music a lot in terms of what we do. If people asked us something about us, we'd say, well, we
Shachella James (05:49)
I think a good I a think that's a good think good I think a good thing. a good I a good I think good good good thing. I think good thing. I
Terry Baylor (05:58)
played in a band together. But how do you shift the room with your questions? And what are those kinds of questions that you use to shift the room to your earlier point, which is asking questions that you already know? Ralph and I say this as well. You have to ask questions that's going to lead the room to where you want to go.
So what are all these kind of different techniques? I'm sorry, I was trying to figure out how do I get this question the right way. So, yeah.
Shachella James (06:25)
I see what you're saying
I know I definitely answered it differently earlier. And I think that those things still apply to as good nuggets, but literally I think you just want to encourage the blue sky, green field thinking when you're asking your questions. So we'd have to have a hypothetical, but generally the type of question would be something to the effect of if we design this today with what we know today, what would change?
Ralph Owens (06:48)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (06:52)
Hmm.
Ralph Owens (06:52)
Mm-hmm.
That's a good example. It's a great example
Shachella James (06:55)
And
that one you can apply to so many different situations, especially if you're trying to unify a room where it's divided. Now we're sitting together today. What should we do differently? And just contribute that way. I think that's the best way I would start it off and then just let the room take it from there of any other direction you would go in. But that can be a divider.
Ralph Owens (07:02)
Mmm.
Terry Baylor (07:03)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Sure.
Ralph Owens (07:16)
That's great.
Shachella James (07:23)
It could be a unifier. It can be a clarifier. As everybody starts contributing to how could we do this differently or what should we change? And then, and as it starts to fall into those different camps, I think you'll have to drill down into more of what I mentioned earlier about the open ended questions and then β poking in for more elevation.
Ralph Owens (07:23)
Yes. β
Terry Baylor (07:25)
Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Yes. Yes. Sure. Sure.
Ralph Owens (07:43)
Mm-hmm.
That's good.
Terry Baylor (07:48)
I love that. Unifier, qualifier,
divider. I love it.
Shachella James (07:51)
That's right!
Ralph Owens (07:52)
Yeah,
yeah, it sounds like strategic curiosity. Strategic curiosity. Yes, that is fantastic.
Shachella James (07:57)
Yes.
Terry Baylor (07:57)
β you know, I think that's your book right there. Strategic.
Shachella James (08:05)
Absolutely. Well,
and you know that I do believe because I think in my, in my mind, it's like there are tactical things that tactical questions that you just, you know, just got to check in on people. How you doing? But asking somebody how you're doing is very different from what was the highlight of your day.
Ralph Owens (08:13)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm, that's good. That's really me too. Me too
Terry Baylor (08:29)
You're helping me again right now. Where is the plate? Where is the plate? Where is the plate, man?
Shachella James (08:34)
The building fund is
funding is increasing. Yeah. β
Terry Baylor (08:37)
It's up that red
line is going higher.
Ralph Owens (08:43)
That is so good. This has been so rich.
Shachella James (08:43)
Man, mean, Ralph, I'm telling you,
I totally underestimated the power of this conversation. So that night I was really geeked about it. And then as time passed, I'm like, that was a really good interaction. How could I go deeper on that? And then I just sat on it a little bit. And then just in getting my head back in the space for this, I'm like, wow, this is really something. Especially in terms of a paradigm shift, for sure.
Ralph Owens (08:53)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (08:59)
Hmm
Ralph Owens (09:01)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. It is. It is. Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (09:12)
Yes,
Ralph Owens (09:13)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Terry Baylor (09:13)
it is, it is, it is.
Shachella James (09:15)
It's
something as simple as curiosity shifting the room, absolutely.
Ralph Owens (09:19)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. We, we, I'm sorry, go ahead, Terry. You know, so the, the, the persona of the person that we talk to on our show is that person that's in their career, who's looking to figure out how to use leadership principles to move up in their career. Right. That's typically who we're talking to. And everything that you shared today was just so rich. And again, you know, Terry and I started this show because we went through years of trying to figure out
Terry Baylor (09:23)
Yeah. Go ahead, Ralph. Uh-uh, uh-uh. Go ahead, Ralph. I'm sorry.
Shachella James (09:38)
Hmm.
Terry Baylor (09:43)
Yes.
Ralph Owens (09:49)
you know, how we can get promoted and how we get past obstacles, you know, in the workplace and things of that nature. We had each other to kind of lean on and we would talk to each other about, I had to do this. man, we had to do that. And we wish someone had told us about it, you know, ahead of time. This information is so rich because typically you won't, you don't get access to this information until you've been in the game so long, right? And you bumped your head so many times, you kind of figured it out. I just really hope that
Shachella James (10:04)
Thank
Mm-hmm.
you
Ralph Owens (10:17)
Whoever's
listening to this today that you really take in, know what you're learning listen to it a few times, right? Don't just listen to it once because there were so many things on so many different levels that you're not gonna just catch it once I'm personally gonna be listening to this over and over and over again to make sure I cement this into my thinking but Such as this has been incredible. Thank you. Thank you Thank you for taking the time to share your experience your thought your thought leadership with us
Shachella James (10:23)
Yeah.
Terry Baylor (10:29)
Yes.
Shachella James (10:41)
Thank
Ralph Owens (10:46)
to our audience. We really believe this is going to
really bless and help a lot of people.
Shachella James (10:51)
I can just only express my abundant thanks for the opportunity to share. It has been my absolute delight to have this conversation with you. You're right, because spice is all mine. I might need to trademark it and call her. It really is, because you can.
Terry Baylor (11:06)
You need to, yes.
Ralph Owens (11:06)
think you should. I think you
should. I think you should because it's so on point.
Shachella James (11:15)
bump into walls and then never really consolidate all that thinking into a framework that you can just have a repeatable process. So I hope somebody does take spice and make it their own. Curiosity literally changes everything. I think it opens doors. β It fuels creativity and handled correctly. It is definitely a trust builder. It absolutely is.
Ralph Owens (11:40)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (11:41)
Hmm.
Shachella James (11:42)
So, and I believe strongly that promotions do follow curiosity and just maybe even micro levels of emerging responsibility. But β yeah, stay curious. Curiosity is your currency.
Terry Baylor (11:52)
Mmm.
Ralph Owens (11:57)
β what a way to end.
Terry Baylor (11:58)
All right, I'm
just saying, man, when we have our conference, β you're on the docket. It's coming, It's coming. Leadership Solidary Conference, it's coming. It's coming. Look, this is not your curious George curiosity, okay? It's not that. And I think that's what, when you hear the word curiosity, I think you almost think elementary, and it's not. It's actually an advance. It is a...
Ralph Owens (12:03)
you already know. You already know. You already It's coming. Yes. That's right. That's right.
Shachella James (12:15)
It's not. It's not.
Ralph Owens (12:16)
Mm-mm.
Shachella James (12:22)
right?
it.
Terry Baylor (12:25)
So Ralph
and I say this a lot too, right? It is, I didn't realize it, but it is an advanced Jedi, advanced Jedi β ability, right? And trait, if you leverage it the right way. Cause I think I undervalued curiosity, right? But it is a heavy weighted β discipline and something that we all, I need to get my 10,000 hours in, man.
Shachella James (12:32)
Right.
Ralph Owens (12:37)
Mm-hmm.
Shachella James (12:38)
That's right.
Ralph Owens (12:41)
Mm.
Shachella James (12:44)
Yeah, know I did.
Ralph Owens (12:45)
I did too.
Yes.
Terry Baylor (12:56)
I'm way
behind on my curiosity hours.
Ralph Owens (12:58)
Yes, yes, yes, so good, so good, so good. So thank you so much again. β And we will catch all the listeners on the next one. Thank you.
Shachella James (13:01)
Thank you.