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Hosted by Jack Pavia & Romney Donald, Community Ties dives into conversations with people who have vision, drive, and passion, and choose to invest it in Norwalk. Presented by Nancy on Norwalk, the podcast looks to highlight the stories of people, businesses, and organizations in Norwalk.
Welcome to Community Ties, a
Nancy on Norwalk podcast.
I'm your host, Jack Pavia.
I'm a student at American
University and passionate
advocate for thriving towns and
cities.
I love nothing more than talking
to people who care about their
community and seek to lift it
up.
Using the platform of this show,
I'm going to facilitate
conversations with people who
have vision, drive, and passion
and choose to invest it in
Norwalk.
By conducting this dialogue, I
hope the search for truth and
meaning in our city and the
people who drive them.
A big thank you to the fine
people at Nancy on Norwalk will
work closely with me to get this
podcast up and running.
With that being said, let's
begin.
Connecticut's housing market is
in a precarious position, and
that's putting it lightly.
Per the Connecticut Mirror, we
have the most constrained
housing supply in the nation,
with a mere 7% vacancy rate
compared to the national average
of 11%.
Estimates of how many units of
housing we'd need to meet the
needs of the state range from
just over 100,000 units to
roughly 350,830 GA.
Connecticut State law makes it
so municipalities can't deny an
affordable housing proposal
unless that community has at
least 10% of their housing stock
designated as Capital.
A affordable Norwalk at the
moment has met that standard.
Our housing stock is 13%
affordable.
Nevertheless, many of our
surrounding suburbs haven't
pulled their weight and the cost
of living throughout nearly all
of Fairfield County remains
extraordinarily high.
I wanted to get the advocate and
politicians view of this issue
to get the perspective of
someone on the inside and
someone in the outside.
So I'll be speaking to state
representative and founder of
the End Homelessness Caucus,
Kadeem Roberts and director of
housing advocacy group
Desegregate CT, Nick Cantor.
Today.
I wanted to know what are they
seeing and feeling from their
partners and constituents?
What do they believe the status
of the American Dream, being
able to afford a home in a
strong community is in 2025?
What policies have they seen
that bring us closer to their
vision and what's standing in
their way?
Conversely, what do they say to
the large number of people
living in Connecticut right now
that don't want to see their
state developed in the way that
they advocate for?
That instead of getting excited
for new housing, worry about the
potential for more traffic on
our roads or additional students
in our classroom.
I want to sincerely thank
Representative Kadeem Roberts
and Nick Cantor for coming down
to record with us.
I hope you enjoy our
conversation.
I want to start by talking about
your guys's background.
I want to hear about, you know,
where you grew up, what your
previous experiences and how you
got involved in the work of
housing and homelessness.
Kadeem, why don't we start with?
You so representative Kadeem
Roberts from Norwalk, CT
represent the 137 district for
me just growing up on low income
housing with many no ads the
heart of the projects.
This is what really, truly got
me into politics, seeing, you
know, good friends either go get
incarcerated or good friends,
you know, pass away.
I wanted to be an advocate for,
you know, the trenches, but most
importantly, the youth.
And when I went to school in
Virginia my freshman year, my
best friend was killed and
murdered and in Norwalk.
And I just chose to put me in a
place where I was like, I can't
do this no more.
I have to bring back some form
of change.
So I jumped into my first race,
2019, broke history as the
youngest black person ever
elected on the City Council.
And I think everything took off
from there.
I had kids look up to me in this
field that I'm in as a
politician.
It's not too many black people
or just, you know, brown people
in general.
So this was it for me.
And I took that and kept running
with it and ultimately went now
and I'm probably one of the
youngest of the country do this
and the youngest of the capital.
So feels good just to, you know,
keep creating change and bring
back, you know, benefits to the
community that I was raised in
and just be that advocate that
the, you know, the youth look up
to, but not just no more just
the kids that come from my
community, but you know, in
general everyone.
So it feels good.
But that's like my big spill on
where I come from and why I'm in
this field.
So let's talk a little bit about
your community and the district
you represent.
How how are they affected by the
current housing crisis
happening?
What's their perspective on
housing and what, to what extent
are they feeling the squeeze of
sort of the crisis of cost of
living?
I think, you know, that's pretty
clear when you talk about
Norwalk being it's the 6th
largest, the fastest growing
city on the right, on the
borderline in New York City.
So a lot of people tend to feel
like the prices are have grown
up, which is truly, you know,
true.
But in general, a lot of people
start to see that in New York
has moved in, in Norwalk, and a
lot of people are being pushed
out, you know, and a lot of
developers are building
beautiful big buildings.
But the cost of living, nobody's
affording the studio AT2320800.
It's impossible for someone to
live off that when, you know, in
the state of Connecticut or just
in the world in general, you
spend about 40% of your income
on housing, you know, and the
rest of it on food or whatever
necessity you can spend it on.
So we have to make things
affordable here.
And, and that's the, the key
part of housing in the state of
Connecticut.
We are short probably 150,000
units now since we didn't pass
this big bill we're going to
talk about today.
But I mean, we're, we're, we got
to get on some form of, of
common sense or just consensus
with one another that housing
now is a big crisis and it's
been a crisis.
But then we'll talk about it.
I'm sure it's going to tend to
be a homelessness crisis.
And when you have that, and I
tell my colleagues at the
Capitol, you know, if you're not
giving anyone the housing,
you're just not, you know,
providing a solution to the, to
the crisis.
That person would be knocking at
your door next for some form of
everything that they can
receive.
Because I just left outside.
It's 91° big in the state when
it comes to this homelessness
situation.
So it's just like it's 91°.
Are my heating and cooling
centers being used?
Do we have beds?
How to shelters that are
overcapacitated?
So I'm thinking about that on a
regular basis when I leave out
this house, 'cause I know I can
go home to AC, but the average
person that can't, I mean, what
are we doing in the state of
Connecticut for them?
Absolutely.
Yeah, to.
Echo what Kadeem has been
saying.
So Nick Cannard, program
Director for Desegregate
Connecticut, you know, the stats
are really clear in Connecticut
we're at 30% of homeowners and
50% of home renters are cost
burden that's spending more than
30% of their income on rent or
housing and it's unsustainable,
you know, and it goes into, we
have the lowest vacancy rate in
the country.
We have homelessness is up 13%
in Connecticut in the beginning
of the year.
It's probably only going to go
up.
And the way we look at it with
Desegregate Connecticut, it's
the housing crisis and the
climate crisis are coming
together.
The housing shortage and the
climate crisis, what
Representative Roberts was just
talking about more need for
heating and AC is a function of
the environments outside getting
worse.
And that's only going to go in
One Direction.
More homelessness people, more
people not having the right
environment to live in.
And it's only going to go, it's
only trending in One Direction
right now, unfortunately.
Nick, what brought you to this
work originally?
Can you tell me first what
inspired you to look into this
policy in the 1st place and then
how you got to the position of
the Director of Desegregate CT?
The journey for me is more, I
was lucky enough to be appointed
in Norwalk as a zoning
commissioner about 6-7 years ago
and actually getting into the
weeds on that and seeing what
people really needed and where
the pain points were really
highlighted.
This whole housing crisis, you
know, sort of brewing in the
background.
I think it's been brewing for
more than five or six years,
probably been brewing for 20-30
years if we're being honest with
ourselves.
But seeing that first hand of
realizing, OK, what power do we
have to actually make change?
Where can we make change?
How do we make change in our
communities and at the state and
at the federal level?
And it's an all of the above
approach which really brought me
to desegregate Connecticut of
that's been their approach as
well as needing change at all
different levels of government
to actually trying to make a
dent in this problem.
So I want to zoom out a little
bit because housing to a lot of
people is the key to the
American Dream.
To own a home in America is
something millions and millions
of people aspire to every single
year.
So I want to start with you,
Nick.
What does the American Dream
mean to you?
I think the American dream means
the ability to have meaningful
life, meaningful relationships,
meaningful work and have a a
standard of living that is
great.
I think for a lot of people,
we've put that out of reach.
The one thing I sort of go back
to in all of this, we'll get to
it I think later about people
pushing back on the bill and
whatnot, is we call the number
of people essential workers
during a pandemic, but they're
not essential enough to live in
our communities.
Talking about teachers,
firefighters, police officers,
nurses, people at the pharmacy.
But we say they don't belong in
our community or our community
can't support them.
And I think that's just an
unfair bargain that I don't
think we're signed up for or
more so we can do better and we
should do better.
Kadeem, what does the American
Dream mean to you?
That was tough Nick American
dream for me honestly as a black
man in America is 40 acres in
the mule is to get you your your
reparations.
But of course, you know is
honestly, you know, build
generational wealth and if that
is a form of buying housing,
that's that's accurate for a lot
of people.
I went to school in Virginia.
If you pass going from Maryland
and then get to Virginia, DC and
then get to Virginia, you got to
understand you passed PG County.
If you don't know APG County,
it's Prince George County.
It's the richest black dwarf
county in the nation.
And to understand the story of
how that county was formed, one
black man bought land and he got
his best friend.
He bought another piece of land.
They bought the whole street.
Next thing you know, they bought
the whole county.
That's like a, a big thing when
it comes to like just being
black.
That's the American dream for a
black man too, you know, just to
purchase his first home because,
you know, these opportunities
weren't given to us.
You know, we don't come from
that money, you know, and we
want to leave something can't
live forever, but we want to
leave that legacy for our kids.
And so that's another big thing.
You know, where where I was
raised, it was, you know, we
were, we all lived on the same
heating unit, the same AC unit.
It's a project.
It's they they call it a project
for a reason.
You know, they put it in the
middle of like a infested or
swampland.
They build on top of it and they
tell you that, you know, we
save, we surveyed the land and
everything's good to go.
But deep down the side, why do
you think the rats, the roaches,
everything comes through like
this is a, a, a problem for us.
And that's why, you know, all
these facilities that have been
here for years that are like
project development buildings
are now being knocked down and
people are now living in them
and they're lofts.
But a lot of people are being
pushed out because they're now
saying, oh, this is this much
percent affordable.
And the people that were living
here, well, you guys have to now
pay this much rent because this
doesn't categorize as housing
anymore.
It categorizes as affordable
housing.
But at the same time, what is
affordable housing?
Is it deeply affordable housing?
You know, how many units are
affordable?
I mean, that's the conversation
that, you know, I have with
colleagues every day.
But for my American dream is to
is to get a home, white picket
fence, a dog, the things that we
see on TV that we probably
sometimes feel like we can't get
to.
It's an interesting point
because I'm a white guy and I
can think about my grandpa Dave,
who grew up here in Westport
where we're recording and worked
his way up from his family being
in abject poverty in Brooklyn to
living the American Dream,
owning that home.
So from my perspective, I see
that American Dream fading away
from me, but I'm looking back on
this thing that really only was
experienced in large part by
white Americans post World War 2
to GI Bill only went to white
Americans was not experienced by
a significant portion of
America.
Look, you can't have this
conversation without looking at
the embedded races and within
the laws around zoning and
whatnot.
That's just a fact.
And in that same vein, I think
the American Dream is more than
just that single family home.
It could be an apartment, a town
home.
It varies for different people,
but I think it's a sense of
security, it's a sense of place,
it's a sense of belonging and
being that everyone deserves if
they want it.
And then back to the to racism
point is, I, I don't think we
can have the conversation around
housing and zoning without the
embedded racism in a lot of the
laws, whether it's redlining,
whether it's covenants, you
know, there's a deep history
there.
And that's, that's real.
And I don't think a lot of
people want to have that
conversation because it's
painful.
You have to look in the mirror
and really say what this means
and what the implications are.
And it hurts, and it can hurt,
and it can make you feel
uncomfortable and awkward,
especially in places that like
to view themselves as
progressive or liberal or
whatever the right word is.
But at the root of this is a
level of racism that we just
have to acknowledge.
And I don't think we can solve
the problem without
acknowledging that, because
we're just going to keep solving
the wrong problem.
But I do love when Nick just
said that because a lot of
people don't understand what
zona was created for and how it
was created and who was it
created for, you know, and
especially living in where we're
at right now recording, but you
just said the city.
So I ain't going to tell too
many people I met a lot of
times.
But we're in Westport, you know,
and just understanding, you know
what, we'll get into the bill,
but we'll understand, you know,
the concept of when we talk
about, you know, the plan of
building more in cities and what
cities did not want this to
happen, you know, we'll talk
about that.
Our surrounding towns.
You know, I live in Noah.
I'm smack dab in the middle of
New Canaan, Greenwich, Westport.
So I definitely do respect what
Nick said.
He's well educated on this.
You know, when you're in a room
with 151 people, everybody
thinks you know something
totally different.
They might not understand what
zoning was and why it was
created or redlining or
anything.
They don't understand that and
it's pretty sad, but you know,
it is what it is.
Nick, the name of the
organization that you direct is
called Desegregate CT.
The implication there is that
Connecticut is segregated.
So I'd like you to talk just a
little bit about what position
you think Connecticut is in, in
terms of housing and you know,
what are our strong suits?
Where do we need improvement?
I go back to the stat a lot
because it just sort of
resonates with me.
So I'll I'll share it here and
then can continue on the
question.
More than 50% of Connecticut's
non white residents live in just
ten of the state's 169 towns.
So it's 50% of what's called
black and brown population in
Connecticut lives in 10 of the
169 towns.
So when people ask me is
Connecticut segregated and
whatnot, I go back to that stat.
You know, it's probably more
economic than it is racial.
But those racial undertones in
history are real, and we can't
forget that.
And then the question of how is
Connecticut's doing?
You know, frankly, we're falling
behind.
We're falling behind in a major
way.
We had a real opportunity, I
think this session to move the
ball forward, and I think we'll
get there.
But a lot of our neighbors,
whether it's New York and
Massachusetts, over the past
years, this year just alone, New
Hampshire, Maine and Rhode
Island all passed pretty
substantial housing bills.
Connecticut's going to get left
behind.
And it's not only a function of
where people can live.
That then ties into the economy
and the broader infrastructure
in the state.
And it all is connected.
So when people start complaining
about taxes keep going up, you
really can only point to, well,
what are your options?
You can raise taxes on the
people who live here.
You can add more people or add
more businesses.
Businesses don't want to come
here.
And they say it over and over to
CBIA because the cost of living
is too high.
What's the CBIA for listeners?
It's Connecticut Business and
Innovation Association.
CIA is the Connecticut business,
big advocacy group that lobbies
mostly for business practices
and a healthy economy.
So I don't know could even if
you would add to that, But I
think that's sort of where we
are like we're going to fall
behind and it's going to get
worse.
Like I tell everybody all the
time, we didn't, we didn't have
fell behind already.
This bill was supposed to be
passed.
We spent 11.5 hours and I
appreciate Nick because he spent
the entire 11.5 hours out there
with us and looking up in the
air and seeing Nick in the
gallery.
I feel like this bill in
general, this was the bill of
the century for Connecticut and
probably a bunch of other
states.
As he said, it's a lot of
nonprofits that wanted this type
of bill to happen and a lot of
advocates as well.
CCM was probably the biggest
thing that we thought we had
behind us, which is like all
mayors and selectmen's we've
seen different, you know?
But like I said, I'm a blunt
guy, so whenever you get to the
questions that I like to answer,
I'm definitely going to dig into
it and let you not guys, know my
stance on the entire bill in
general.
Yeah, let's dig into it.
So you're referring to when you
guys say the bill, it's HB5002,
which was the big housing bill
that went through the
Connecticut State legislature
this year and passed both the
House and the Senate, but then
was vetoed by the governor.
Now we're sitting here in August
and the governor has yet to
formally call for a special
session, but is expected to to
pass a modified version of this
bill.
Nick, why don't you walk me
through a little bit what this
bill does and specifically let's
start with the work live ride
portion, which I know is very
important to desegregate CT
that's.
A baby, that's a baby.
Exactly what's hard right now
is, you know, Kadeem probably
has more insight than I do is
from the advocate communities.
We don't know what's in the new
version of 5002.
It's a mystery to all of us.
We're hopeful that we'll see
something soon because we're
approaching August and September
is going to be fast and all of a
sudden we'll be time for the
special session.
So we hope it'll be good.
But on that, what the bill did
in a lot of ways as was written
and passed by both the House and
the Senate, was really create
opportunity for more housing in
Connecticut.
Work the Ride really focused on
building transit oriented
communities and incentivizing
money that already existed to
building transit oriented
communities, which is basically
around train stations and towns,
really giving towns the option
to opt into it if they want to
find their zones.
And at the same time built a lot
of state capacity.
Because what we, we see when we,
you know, we've talked about
60-70 planning and zoning
commissions across the state is
almost in every case they're
like, I would really like to do
something in my town, but we
don't have this resource or we
don't have this planner.
And it's because we have 169
towns running 169 municipalities
for the most part.
And of course a smaller town
isn't going to have a staff, say
as big as Norwalk staff.
So building state capacity we
see is an essential path forward
to give towns the option or the
ability to actually grow at a
reasonable rate and and build
the things that they want to do.
Other parts of the bill included
parking reform, commercial
conversion, a lot of stuff
around homelessness, which was
great, stuff around towns take
the lead, which was the start of
Fair share guideposts for folks
to start planning again.
It was really a comprehensive
bill that I think checked a lot
of boxes for a lot of people.
And I think that's why I think
there was a big disappointment
given the number of years people
have worked on it and the number
of just energy that was behind
it.
Can you talk to me a little bit
more about that parking reform
part of the bill?
Yeah, the parking reform part of
the bill was residential units.
Less than 24 units did not
require parking, which means
that a developer still can build
parking, but the town or the
municipality can't mandate what
a number should be.
And the reason this is important
is because off street parking is
really expensive and some towns
use them as a way to deter
development.
So off St. parking could be 5060
thousand a spot that adds up
really quickly when you're
building, you know, 5060100200
unit complex as well as examples
of where people have used it.
And it might not be intentional,
right?
I'm not, I don't want to assign
blame, but Naugatuck, for
example, not that far from the
train station requires 3 parking
spots for a studio apartment.
That doesn't make sense.
They're doing a lot of great
work in other areas, which is
wonderful and and they've got
other zones that are right size,
but that's just an example of
how parking doesn't always make
sense.
So a big piece of this was
moving parking reform along in
that direction, and it's been
moved in a lot of states across
the country with a lot of great
results.
And then the action on
homelessness, what does that
look like?
This is where I think I'm going
to turn to Kadeem as the chair
of the homelessness.
And caucus.
Yeah, I mean, for the
homelessness situation that they
did have in a bill, it was more
so pertaining to architecture.
So basically in that piece of
the bill, we're basically
telling other towns and cities
in the state we wanted to make
sure that you weren't building
any structure architects that
would prevent people, what we
called it, hostile architecture.
Then it prevented municipalities
from installing structures meant
to implode, sitting or lying on
property beginning on August the
1st.
Existing structures, they were
grandfathered in, but there
aren't subject to provisions.
So that was a big thing because
a lot of cities are making
things so that people can't come
there and get comfortable.
Our shelters are overpopulated.
They don't have nowhere to go
and as Nick said, homelessness
is 1 up 14%.
People think that everybody
that's on drugs is homeless.
That's not true.
There's 67 year olds that's on
fixed incomes that live in the
buildings that I'm telling you
about on a regular basis that
now have a developer coming in
and he's jacking up the prices.
So your average 6570 year old
that's on a fixed income now was
paying, let's just say 1500 is
now going to pay 2800.
She can't do that.
So that's one thing.
Then we have other people as
well that, you know, got a job
and they lost their job the next
day and now they need to find
some form of housing and they
can't afford it.
So now they're out sleeping on
Auntie's couch.
Or you have other people that
are just legit messed up in this
game.
COVID has put us back a long
time now and people are still
trying to catch up.
Yeah, you can't separate these
things.
Homelessness is a housing
problem, and everything in this
bill was driving to adding to
the housing stock, and that
helps all the way down the
chain.
Like Robert said, you think of
homelessness and we have this
boogeyman version, but it's, I
think one of the larger buckets
that increase in Connecticut
with students in the
homelessness camp.
Kids going to school can't
afford rent because it's
expensive around college towns
and they're living in their
cars.
That's what we're talking about.
Yeah, we had a bunch of stuff,
especially the we had a portable
shower aspect in that bill as
well.
We're going to DSS, Department
of Social Services and basically
develop a pilot program
providing portable showers and
laundry facilities to those that
are experiencing homelessness.
And that got vetoed, you know,
and it was coming from
nonprofits.
They were donating it.
The state wasn't paying for
that.
And we worked with another pilot
program with the state for
people experiencing homelessness
as well, where if you couldn't
find housing, they were paying
you.
They were paying your down
payment and your security
deposit to get you in faster.
They were a philanthropist was
coming into the state of
Connecticut and giving you free
money because we want to get you
housed.
And that was beat over the bill.
So when we talk about this bill,
I think the main thing of this
bill, we got to talk about fair
share.
We got to talk about that
because that is what everybody
took heat to.
That is, and this is me being
blunt, that is a lot of people
seeking re election coming up.
That is a lot of people
receiving campaign donations
from these cities, smaller
cities that can fund people's
campaigns that they may have
been worried about winning their
re election.
And that's, you know, the cities
that I'm in right now and the
cities that surround my city.
I'm I'm from that don't want
people in their cities
respectfully.
They just want it to be what it
has been for years.
Can you talk?
To me for a second, just about
just describe for the listeners
what fair share is.
So fair share and, and this so
when we first started, when I
first got to the Capitol, we
were trying to pass a bill like
this, but it was real smaller
and fair share was like a big,
big, big like word.
And people were like, oh, no, we
don't like that.
So we ended up passing a study
in 2022.
The study was basically telling
us costing average, median,
what's going on in your city to
basically say, Hey, this is what
you guys need to bill within
five years and you'll be good to
go.
A lot of cities seen their name
on the list and was like I can't
build 4000.
And it wasn't even to build.
It was it was to plan to plan.
So like, I think that I think a
lot of the hysteria was around a
mandate.
This is a mandate.
And it was, no, this is a, this
is a planning exercise more than
anything else.
Because let's be clear, we
already have goals for every
town in Connecticut in 830 G,
it's 10% and towns are not
hitting that.
Norwalk is done its part, it's
at 14%.
But the neighboring towns, 4%,
five percent, 3% of affordable
housing within the community.
And so I think there was a lot
of hysteria around this that was
just not helpful.
You know, a lot of
misinformation around it.
They were appeal processes built
into it.
If your community said can't
reach this number For these
reasons, there were mechanisms
to appeal your number to get it
lowered so it made sense.
But Jack, what Nick is saying is
very true.
But you also had five years to
show me this plan.
We didn't say right then and
there when this bill is signed,
you do it right.
It was five years.
You come back to me in five
years with a plan I.
Want to provide a quick talking
point of pushback of what
advocates against this bill say.
There are concerns specifically
about added traffic in Norwalk.
We all know that I-95 is always
incredibly congested.
Norwalk specifically is
increasingly congested.
The issue of spots in classrooms
in schools, if people will talk
about issues of overcrowding in
schools.
So can you talk to me a little
bit about that?
Yeah, I can hit both.
And obviously probably has other
things to add as well.
The first being traffic is a
function of how we're building
today.
We're building more spread out.
If people could walk to get a
coffee more often, guess what?
That's going to reduce the car
traffic.
And I think when people hear
about this, they think in
absolutes.
Oh, they're trying to ban cars
everywhere.
No, what I think a lot of
advocates want to do is reduce
that car trip by 20%.
And that will free up a lot of
capacity on our roads.
And that's why it's not just a
housing perspective, it's about
transit too, and sustainable
energy.
And they all interrelate.
And building a better network of
buses and rails across the state
is equally important to help
move this thing forward.
And then on the the overcrowding
at schools, it's just not true.
Studies constantly are showing
that people coming into
apartments generally bring a
magnitude of less children
versus people in single family
homes.
There are schools around the
state that are shutting down
because they don't have enough
students.
It's a lot of rhetoric, it's a
lot of talk to scare people, I
think, and it's just not true.
As far as the school is being
overpopulated, I mean, we're
building new schools in Norwalk
every other second of the day
and we got one of the highest
reimbursement rates because of
our Senator at 80%.
You got to understand that
you're saving tax.
What is the reimbursement rate
for our listeners?
So you're basically saving
taxpayers 80% of a brand new
school.
That's hundreds and millions of
dollars that taxpayers are being
saved so that they don't have to
spend that on.
So we have a brand new high
school being built.
We have a brand New South and
all school just it'll be done.
Actually it's done next month
for the the first day the kids
are going in, you know, so we
can't say we're not Building
Schools.
We're not on a 25 year school
plan.
We're not doing the right thing.
We are.
The biggest main thing was
nobody wanted to do it 'cause
they didn't want nobody in the
city or town.
Honestly, they like it for what
it is now.
And like I said, we get back to
the conversation of is this
modern day racism?
Like what is this?
You know, and I realized that
like the smaller towns and
cities in the state of
Connecticut and, and I'm happy
that I live in the middle of it.
So I'm happy I'm, I could talk
to you and be honest and be
blunt.
And I don't care who hears this
'cause they know Kadeem is
probably one of the bluntest
politicians in the state of
Connecticut, probably in the
country that surrounding towns
next to me, a Darienne, a
Fairfield, a Westport, even
where my governor's from, a
Greenwich, they might not like
this policy.
They didn't like this at all.
Then when you get up the way, I
mean, you've got all the other
smaller towns and cities up
there that didn't like it
neither.
And then there were coalitions
that would send e-mail blasts
every day, get you a legislator,
stop this, veto this.
And I felt like the little kid,
you know, being with the
governor.
I want to save 48 hours every
day before the the veto date.
And I was at the governor.
I felt like on a Friday or
Thursday and everything was
fine.
I'm like, oh, we're going to get
this passed.
Juneteenth came.
I'm like, oh, OK, he's here in
my city.
I, it's a good thing.
And then the next day I'm like,
all right, this is the last day
before this bill needs to be
signed.
And I woke up and I just was
like, oh, man, He vetoed the
bill.
It kind of hurt really bad, you
know?
So to start with the groups that
we're pushing back, so like ACC
169 Strong, which is an advocacy
group that is a.
Fairfield out of Fairfield.
Yep, out of Fairfield, that is
against a lot of these sort of
initiatives to build additional
housing specifically in a lot of
the communities that they reside
in.
So what reasons were they
giving?
And then what reasons did Lamont
give for vetoing the bill?
Governor Lamont.
I think Nick could help you out
with that.
Cause for me, I, I legit just, I
tapped out.
Once I started to see all the
smaller towns and cities, I
started to get to the governor's
office say, Hey, listen, what's
going on?
Can we, you know, can we meet?
I would talk to my, my senators.
Well, I would talk to a bunch
of, you know, my leadership and
just say, Hey, what's the status
of this bill?
Guys?
You know, this is our baby.
This is our priority, Bill.
Has Governor Lamont's office
communicated to you and your
colleagues about what he wants
to see changed in this
theoretical, at this point but
likely September special
session?
I haven't, I haven't talked to
him.
I think they're, they're really
working the kinks out for me.
I, it was kind of crazy because
in my outline, you know, here
like he had sections of his own
stuff in the bill.
So you vetoed stuff.
His own bill.
Exactly.
So this is pretty big, like this
is like, this is something that,
you know, it's kind of crazy
that you vetoed your own stuff.
But I'm, I'm hearing that, you
know, October, we go back in.
I wouldn't even lie to
everybody.
September.
I wouldn't lie to people.
August, it's not happening in
July.
Nothing.
It it for sure.
I think that both sides of the
aisle are looking at it.
I don't know.
And I'm, I'm, I'm not Privy to
it yet, but I don't know what
else is in this bill.
So, Nick, from your perspective
as an advocate, everyone's seen
the Schoolhouse Rock video.
I'm just a bill.
So how does that actually work?
What sort of levers are you
pulling when you're, for
example, like organizing people
to testify at a public hearing
or networking with legislators
like Representative Roberts
here?
What does that process look
like?
A lot of it's educational.
More.
Educating than advocating I
would call it because it's for
the most part a lot of people
want to do the right thing,
especially around housing.
I think a lot of people feel it
personally have people in their
lives who are experiencing
housing insecurity, whether it's
someone actually experiencing
homelessness, whether it's a kid
who's in college, and they
wanted them to be able to move
back into the community and they
know they can't because rent's
too damn high.
So Fred, the Segre Connecticut's
standpoint was a lot of
education and going out to
especially the planning and
zoning commissions is where we
spent most of the time because
those are the people who are on
the ground in communities
actually implementing this.
To explain what Worklive Ride
was trying to do, to try to
demystify it, make it not as
scary, try to defang a lot of
the misinformation that came out
about it beforehand.
I think that's a big part of it.
You know, it's, it's getting
people out excited.
There are networks all
throughout Connecticut of people
who've come together Norwalk,
sustainable streets.
Norwalk is a great example of
who really rally behind these
issues and feel that they're
galvanizing and that's really,
really important.
And then back to, you know, the
meta question about the push
back on the bill, any particular
piece of misinformation is is
sort of irrelevant.
I think the meta state of change
is hard and difficult and a lot
of people don't want to do it.
But I think from the perspective
of those pushing for this bill,
we see that there could be a
better world ahead of us, and
that takes vision and leadership
to actually make that step and
go forth and try to do that.
And it's not guaranteed.
We all know that.
But the status quo is not
realistic for so many parts of
our community.
And so change needs to happen,
and it's going to happen one way
or another.
So in terms of turning out that
community that is
underrepresented, younger
people, people of color, how did
that work in terms of turning
out people to public hearings?
Because, you know, when I think
of a public hearing, it's often
a lot of people who are older
who support the status quo, who
don't want to see that change,
who have enough time, frankly,
to show up to those kind of
events.
So how did you sort of take note
of that and then say we need to,
for example, I know you turned
out a lot of young professionals
and and students to do these
sorts of hearings.
I I think it's using large
networks of people to spread the
word.
It's really personal for folks
of getting out information and
people realizing what's going
on.
Really often, you know, you hear
what's going on in Hartford and
you should have tune out, but
the more you can get someone
who's on the ground, talking to
a neighbor, talking to a friend
to come out, that really gets
people to tell real stories.
That's really what you wanted.
I think in in a lot of the
situation is sharing the lived
experience.
And Kadeem does that really
often and really well of this.
And it's a great perspective in
Hartford because I imagine he's
one of a handful of legislators
who has ever dealt with housing
insecurity and what that
actually feels like, looks like
and does to a person.
And having that real experience
and story is so important.
It's storytelling, right?
There are alternative stories to
the scary change, though.
The others are going to come
into my community, right?
The other building is going to
be built and it's going to be
full of others, which would we
can dissect what others means.
And I don't really want to go
down that road, but we can all,
you know, make our leaps on what
that means or whether that's
coded, worded for it.
But the more I think legislators
and what I was most inspired
about this session was I think a
lot of people took to heart in
earnest the lived experience of
a lot of people that they don't
often have to.
We know what turn out looks
like.
We know who comes out to voting.
Like you said, public hearings
have a particular demographic.
That's number of studies have
shown what that looks like.
Legislators could sit back.
But I think for me, so many
legislators took a risk this
session to do the right thing,
and it's really unfortunate that
the governor was unable to carry
that through and actually land
the plane.
That's a fact.
We just had this conversation
out there.
A lot of colleagues from my
delegation who I didn't think
was going to vote on the bill,
voted on the bill, you know,
because, you know, they want to
make sure they protected their
communities.
So to see that, you know, you
know, I'm happy that I was able
to have a closing speech on this
bill and express my where I come
from and why we were funneling a
lot of money into this rental
assistance program and being a a
rap baby and growing up in a
rental assistance program where
a lot of people didn't even
understand what that was when I
sat on the floor.
Can you tell me a little bit
about that?
So rental assistance program is
basically in the state of
Connecticut, you're funding 6700
households, right?
Are this the poorest of the poor
in the state of Connecticut?
So to be on get a rap voucher
you basically got to make under
a certain amount of money
thinking like 28,000 a year.
The state will cover about 30 to
40% of your your funds like your
your actual rent and you'll
cover the rest.
But when I turned 18 I wasn't
able to live in RAP because I
got a job.
So my mom's say $900 a month
went to $1500 a month.
And it's like, wait a minute,
hold on.
Just because my son got a job.
So that was a big thing.
I put AI put a, a, a bill in
this session and then get
through, which is basically to
eliminate the child's until he's
26 years of age 'cause you stay
on your parents insurance.
So you're 26?
You're not.
Exactly.
So why not do that?
So eliminate that cost, let the
kid actually work, save his
money, go to college, provide
help for his mom.
And it's crazy because a lot of
my colleagues didn't know, like,
wait, so the the rent goes up
and you're looking at them in
the room like, yeah, where you
been at?
Like I'm, I'm so confused on
where you didn't understand
this.
But like I said, to a lot of
people in that room, it's 151 of
us out of 151, it's 40 black and
brown people.
Upstairs is 36 people.
Out of the 36 people, it's 3
black people.
You got to do the math on what's
going on.
So just imagine the wealth in
the room.
Imagine why we going so crazy
for this bill.
So for our final question, I
want to ask you guys, you know,
when you talk about the leaders
in the State House and State
Senate, for example, is there
some leader in the state of
Connecticut either inside or
outside electoral politics in
Connecticut that you think is
doing outstanding work leading
on the issue of housing and
homelessness?
Maybe this might be crazy and
biased, but I feel like Norwalk
itself, I feel like the city of
Norwalk, our delegation is the
leaders of this.
We got a great Senate Majority
Leader.
My senator is legit top tier.
Anytime I come to Bob and I tell
him the craziest idea is he
goes, well, I mean, I support
you and I got to keep coming
back to him about things, you
know, but when it comes to
housing, this is something that
this man has been doing for a
while.
You know, he's brought back
millions and millions of dollars
to our communities and he
represents a whole another city
that might not want the housing
bill respectfully.
So you got to understand that as
well.
As far as Lucy Dominique, Travis
Sims and die, I think we work
well together.
I'm just a little brother.
I'm just a little guy out the
crew man, the young one out the
crew that just just listens and
and I I pick up a lot of wealth,
you know, from my colleagues.
This 5O2 bill is the is the one.
And when we do pass this, I
promise you this is going to go
down there to me.
Which is such a bummer because
Yimby Town is coming up in 4.
Weeks.
Which is I'm going to plug it
now is Desegregate CT and RPA.
The Regional Plan Association
won the bid to host the National
Pro Homes Conference.
We're expecting 700 people.
New Haven beat out LA, Philly,
Raleigh to host this.
People are coming from around
the world.
We have a couple international
panelists hosting it in New
Haven in September 14th through
the 16th.
And we're really hoping we were
going to be able to use this as
a moment to celebrate the
movement in Connecticut.
And unfortunately, we're left
with this veto situation where
we're not able to use this, you
know, gathering this national
gathering is a moment to look,
be, say, like, here's all the
awesome stuff we just did in
Connecticut.
So are there any leaders that
perhaps you worked with on this
bill that you would like to just
call out and and talk about how
they're?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Look, I, I think Kadeem nailed
it from the Norwalk delegation
really LED, I think you can
almost call this bill
legislators take the lead,
whether it's Majority Leader
Duff, Majority Leader Rojas in
the the Senate and the House,
whether it's the head of
planning and development, Rep
covers De Graw and MD Senator
Rahman, heads of housing, Rep
Felipe and Senator Marx.
Like it's hard to pick one
person because getting something
like this over the finish line
isn't one on the back of any
particular person.
This is something that's been in
the works for years and building
a broad coalition.
So like, I wish I can point to
one person and say like that
person is the housing guru, but
I don't think any of them would
want that because they know that
for this to actually work,
people need to be bought into
it.
And for people who bought into
it, it's not just coming from
one person's perspective.
Thank you so much for coming on
you guys.
Thank you so much for having us,
Jack.
Thank you so much, Jack.
This episode of Community Ties
couldn't have happened without
the work of the board of Nancy
on Norwalk, particularly that of
Justin Matley, Sean Fox, and
Ashley RK Smith.
Nancy on Norwalk is powered by
its donors, who keep the
organization's lights on.
Of course, I want to
particularly thank Kadeem and
Nick for coming on the show and
engaging in this dialogue.
Access to recording equipment
was provided by the Westport
Library's Verso Studios.
Special thanks to Travis Bell
for showing me how it all works.
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Of course, always support public
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To everyone out there listening,
thank you for tuning in.