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In this episode we discuss the World Economic Forum's Future of Jobs Report for 2025 with insights from Sean Stowers, the CEO of WeLearn, HR leader Loren Sanders, and marketing expert Brandy Dawson. We explore the pressing need for reskilling in the workforce, the pivotal roles of AI and technology, and how demographic and economic shifts are shaping employment landscapes. Whether you're navigating corporate growth or aiming to future-proof your team, this conversation offers indispensable perspectives.
Key Highlights:
- The constant reskilling requirement driven by rapid technological change and skill half-life reduction.
- Importance of human skills like resilience and creativity alongside emerging technologies.
- Insight into the ongoing skills gap and why organizations must take responsibility.
- Demographic shifts and their impact on workplace diversity and inclusion.
- Strategies for leveraging AI tools to enhance productivity and decision-making.
Quotes:
- "Human skills of resilience, flexibility, agility, creative thinking, and curiosity are fundamentally important." – Sean Stowers
- "If your L&D strategy does not scream modular, on-demand, and panic-resistant, what are you even doing?" – Loren Sanders
- "Future proofing your workforce isn't about predicting the next big thing; it's about embracing change as it comes." – Loren Sanders
Creators and Guests
What is Conversations WeLearn From?
A great idea. A breakthrough on a big project. A bit of sound advice. The moment you realized it was time for a pivot, either personally or professionally. Some of our best learning comes in the form of the conversations we have with our colleagues, peers, loved ones, or even strangers. That’s the premise of Conversations WeLearn From — a new podcast brought to you by WeLearn. Learn more at welearnls.com.
Brandon Giella: Hello, and welcome
back to another episode of the
conversations we learn from podcast today.
I have great guests as always.
Sean Stowers, CEO.
We learn Lauren Sanders.
We have, uh, HR learning leader
extraordinaire for many, many years.
And we also have with us Brandy
Dawson, 20 year veteran, corporate
communications, marketing, and the
founder of the goat farm consultancy.
Welcome everyone.
Thank you for being here.
Brandy Dawson: Hi, Brandon.
Good to see everyone again.
Loren Sanders: Good to see you.
Sean Stowers: Great to be here.
Brandon Giella: So today we are
talking about a major report that
was just released very recently
from the World Economic Forum.
And it's called the Future
of Jobs Report for 2025.
So we are recording this
podcast January 23rd.
It is in the middle of the annual
meeting in Davos, Switzerland
for the World Economic Forum.
If you're not familiar with the forum,
it is one of the leading Uh, global
organizations to think about public
private partnerships between business,
between government, looking at trends.
Uh, there's a lot of political leaders
that show up to Davos every year.
There are a lot of major corporate
leaders that show up every year.
So think of all the, you know,
heads of the fortune 500 are at this
meeting or somebody, you know, on the
board or whatever at this meeting.
And they're talking about what
does the future hold for us
and how can we adapt to it?
That's kind of the gist from
what I've understood over the
years of reading these reports.
And if you do not read the, uh, the
Future of Jobs report, they come
out with a report like this every
year, typically in January, February,
and talking about the future.
And It is one of those reports that
would be like the LinkedIn learning
report or the Burson and Deloitte
reports that come out or any of these
major kind of, you know, McKinsey
or management consultancy reports.
One of these things that it's sort
of this defining survey and analysis
of what to expect in the future
and what are the major trends.
And so I highly recommend checking out
this report, Google it, download it, read
it because CFO, they are reading this
report and are familiar with its contents.
So I wanted to, uh, really briefly read
the intro paragraph to this report and
then I'm going to cut over to Sean.
I'm going to get, uh, what, what did
you find interesting about this report?
So here's the, uh, initial.
Um, right up for, uh, the
overview of this report.
And this is what it says.
Technological change, geoeconomic
fragmentation, economic uncertainty,
demographic shifts, and the green
transition, individually and in
combination, are among the major
drivers expected to shape and transform
the global labor market by 2030.
The Future of Jobs Report 2025 brings
together the perspective of over a
thousand leading global employers,
collectively representing more than
14 million workers across 22 industry
clusters and 55 economies from around
the world, to examine how these macro
trends impact jobs and skills and the
workforce transformation strategies
employers plan to embark on in response
across the 2025 to 2030 timeframe.
That's quite a mouthful, but there's
a lot of great data in there to
cover a lot of these giant topics.
Very complex, very divisive topics.
So Sean, let's start with you.
What are some interesting statistics
or trends or things that you saw in
this report that you think learning
leaders should pay attention to?
Sean Stowers: Sure.
So Brandon, thanks for that.
And I think, first of all, if
you're listening to this podcast.
And you've never heard of the future
jobs report or the world economic forum.
I will say hey This is a great chance to
learn about it Um, this is something that
your ceo is probably paying attention
to and so if you're an lnd leader in
an organization This is something you
should be paying attention to I think
that for me and as someone who has
followed this report for a number of
years and I was exposed to it Because I
worked for a global educational company.
And this was something that our leadership
shared with us as an organization of 20
to 40, 40, 000 people, 20, 000 people.
We, we kind of ebbed and flowed over
the years, but this was something that
was shared with us because this was
part of how we guided our strategy
as a business and how we invested in
skills development opportunities in
the markets that we serve globally.
So I think number one is, um, the trend
line for this over the past, you know,
really 10 years has been this idea of
the constant need for reskilling of
learners, um, reskilling of workers.
I think that, you know, in L& D we talk an
awful lot about the half life of skills.
I think that the half life of skills is
getting even shorter in terms of technical
skills, that because the technologies
are changing and so that we need to
constantly redevelop the technical skills.
So I think the The focus on upskilling
is, is super interesting here.
I think that the focus on, and, and I
know that, uh, both Lauren and Brady will
have opinions about this, the focus on
the human skills, right, so as much as
we're talking about Data and technology.
There's still such a focus on the
need for human skills of resilience,
flexibility, agility, creative thinking,
curiosity that are fundamentally human.
So that even as we talk about how
do we train people to work alongside
of technology and AI, the human
skills are super important to us.
And, and the, the other thing that
I will just pull out of this, that I
thought was super interesting was that.
63 percent of the organization.
So when you talked about the size of
this report, thousands of organizations.
14 million employees, 63 percent of
them still believe that skill gaps in
the labor market remain a challenge.
And here's the thing, we can't
continue to look at the education
marketplace and say education has to
solve for the skill gap because it's
going to take them time to do it.
We have to say, what do we do to close the
skills gap because we have it now, right?
So we can't continue to look at education.
So I think we as organizations
have to look at ourselves and say,
how do we close the skills gap?
So that's, that's my soapbox for it.
Loren Sanders: I'm going to just
step on top of your soapbox here and
make it a little bit higher in that
we have to get better at explaining
what it is that we do, especially to
our stakeholders, because we aren't
just here to serve you up PowerPoint
slides or fun icebreakers, right?
Our job is to help your organizations
and your employees navigate massive
disruption that's happening right
now without totally losing your mind.
So we have to get cozy with you
and with technology together.
AI has to become your
slightly intimidating BFF.
And learning leaders have to be able to
integrate the tools that they use with it.
We see a little of that happening now,
but it's moving a lot slower than it
should be because people are still afraid.
And nobody Can be future
proofed by watching a webinar.
Your employees need hands
on fluency, not tech trivia.
Brandy Dawson: So, you know, and what
you just said such so struck a point
as far as we don't need, you know, you
need hands on experience with this.
I mean, some of.
You know, obviously the big skills
around a I and upskilling and reskilling.
But yet, if you look at the data,
a huge percentage of people are
not using a I or rarely use a I
especially a knowledge based work.
Um, and as someone who is
a party of one right now.
You know, I don't have a proofreader.
I don't have a thought partner.
And so I have made it my job to
become best friends with Claude
and best friends with ChatGPT.
Um, to be able to do that with me.
I mean, I still, those uniquely
human skills and ideas, but
I'll give you an example.
I can write something up.
But then it's asking Claude, as far
as can you proofread for this for me?
How do you make this stronger?
What data am I missing?
Can you do this research for me?
If I'm trying to do something around
storytelling, analyzing, breakdown,
if this really follows a story arc.
Those things that used
to go to somebody else.
Uh, to help you with, but as people become
constrained with resources but expected
to do more, but real life examples of
how I'm in communications, you know, so,
um, so using a, I'm not a technologist,
but how do you write prompts?
For the job that you're doing,
whether that's learning and
development or communications or
other places, but real hands on.
I couldn't agree with you more
as far as make it your best
friend experiment with it.
And L&D has an opportunity.
To for different practices across
an organization beyond technology
to teach people how to use these,
these tools, technology tools,
while also developing those uniquely
human skills too right alongside it.
Loren Sanders: I'm gonna wave the
flag again of there's got to get
over the one and done mentality.
I feel like we say this ad
nauseum, but lifelong learning
is not just nice to have anymore.
It is survival right now.
If your L&D strategy does not
scream modular, on demand, panic
resistant, what are you even doing?
Brandy Dawson: Yeah, well, in the last
episode, where we talked about Gen Z.
This is a whole group coming into
the workforce where, you know, my kid
and I were sitting racing, trying to
figure out, he's like, no, use this
code for ChatGPT No, use this code
as you know, he's doing research.
It is a tool they know,
and they use every day.
And they have on the front
screen of their phones.
Brandon Giella: That's that's funny.
You say that I was just
talking to my mom recently.
She's a director at a major hospital
in Georgia, and she had one of her team
members younger, Gen Z, and she was
like, yeah, just fill out this form.
Uh, my mom was telling her, just
fill out this form, you know,
and we'll get it taken care of.
It was like a budget
request form or whatever.
And she was like, okay, I think I'll
use that with, uh, with chat GPT
and fill out that form with that.
And my mom was thinking like.
You could just write it, you know,
but, but this person, it's so innate,
you know, it's like using a calculator
or a map to get where you need to go.
It's just another tool in the
tool belt and I'm going to use it
because you're talking about brandy.
You're talking about
these constraints that.
Either employers are feeling on one side
with, you know, budget or, you know,
having to be leaner, more efficient,
but you're also feeling constrained
with employees and trying to get a lot
of work done in a short amount of time.
So how do you do that?
Well, you can use a I tools.
You can use some of these other tools.
And so anyway, constraints is one of
the main main themes that I'm hearing
among a bunch of these different themes
and topics that the report covers.
And so I'm curious, what do you
guys think is the major, um, Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I guess driver in some
of this re skilling.
Is it technology?
Is it a shift in cultural values?
Is it hybrid work?
Return to office?
Like we've talked about, like what
is the thing that you guys think
is most driving this AI maybe?
Sean Stowers: Interestingly enough,
Brandon, I think it's all of the above.
none of these things exist in a vacuum.
it's a convergence of all of those things.
Loren Sanders: I would add to that,
that organizations have not figured out
yet how to target the real skill gaps.
So what they want all the time
is more training and it's not
that they need more training.
It's that they need better training
They need digital literacy.
They need critical thinking They need
leadership for post apocalyptic world.
I'm kidding sort of but you have to
know what skills your team actually
needs in order to get there and You
can use the data to ask the data And
if you're not using analytics about
learning to target your training,
you're throwing darts in the dark.
Sean Stowers: Well, Lauren, I think you
say something, there's something that
you say a lot that we haven't brought
up yet, but I think it is, you know,
we as L& D have to stop perpetuating
the myth that we create experts in 40
Loren Sanders: There
are no 40 hour experts.
None.
Sean Stowers: experts.
And so, look, if someone didn't get
what we need them to have in four
years of higher education, or, you
know, two and a half years in an MBA
program, what makes you think that
we could build that in 40 hours?
At any, on any level, and so I think that
that's also part of it that there has to
be an understanding that, hey, building
some of these skills and building them in
a way that they're going to be valuable
to the organization is going to take time.
It is going to take iteration.
Loren Sanders: Yes.
Sean, meet your new brain surgeon.
He just went through one week
of training 40 hours and he's
going to do surgery on you.
Brandon Giella: Amen.
Seriously.
Brandy Dawson: I think it's 10,
000, I was going to say, isn't it?
10, 000 hours or so to become an expert.
So you're just
Loren Sanders: And I think
that's even been debunked.
So.
I
Brandy Dawson: learning,
um, continuous improvement.
I think it's everything
all together all at once.
I mean, you're coming out of
health crisis, financial crisis,
political crisis, social crisis,
um, and those are still ongoing.
And I think that's
Loren Sanders: apocalyptic.
Brandy Dawson: so I think that's part of
the reason why we're seeing some of those
uniquely human skills right alongside
the technology skills go up around.
leadership, um, and influence around
resilience and adaptability and
agility because you just don't know
what the world's gonna throw at you.
Um, so how do you build up across
all different parts of your business?
Um, those those technology skills
because they're going to be critical.
And then how do you also build
up those uniquely human skills?
Because it's going to
be a blended approach.
I think that's For those who are
going to be successful and survive,
Lauren, the post apocalyptic world.
Um, it's going to take both.
Or Sean, as you said, I think
in a recent episode, robots
are not going to take our jobs.
Um, so, but we, you know,
how do you combine those two
Sean Stowers: Right.
Loren Sanders: I think there's a
plot twist that nobody is watching.
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna build
this soapbox and hope you'll take
it and build on top of it for me.
But I think the plot twist nobody
is watching is demographics.
Everyone's obsessing over
technology consistently.
But there are demographic shifts
that are taking place that will
run the show before we know it.
And we have.
Baby boomers who aren't quietly
retiring, um, their needs are driving
surges in jobs like elder care.
Um, there's arguments about DEI.
You'll see one company saying, I'm
not gonna stop my DEI from happening.
And other companies that are
like, we're done with this.
Um, is it a buzzword?
Isn't it a buzzword?
But your Gen Zers have no time for
workplaces that are stuck in the past
and they demand diverse, inclusive,
culturally competent leadership.
And they're right.
And then we've got the multi generational
workforces, all of the generations working
together, and we need to figure out how
to deliver training in a way that it
clicks for everybody from old school.
I need to be lectured to,
to, uh, where's the TikTok.
Sean Stowers: well, and what's super
interesting about what you just said about
the demographics is there's a whole range
of assumptions, I think, about each of
those demographic groups that are flawed.
So when you talk about the baby boomers
who don't want to don't seem to want
to retire yet, I don't think we can
assume that they are transcribed.
technologically illiterate,
Loren Sanders: Not at all.
No.
Sean Stowers: and I think that we've made
some over, over the past several years, I
think as L and D is learning writ large,
we've made assumptions about like what
each of the generations brings to the
table in terms of technology, literacy,
digital literacy, digital fluency.
I don't think we can assume that if
you're a baby boomer, that you have
no technical, digital fluency, right?
You can't.
You cannot assume that anymore, and
so, like, we have to be prepared
to meet learners where they are
in terms of all of those things.
And I think that that's, that, when you
talk about the demographics, I think,
again, that's part of it is that I think
some of our assumptions about what, what
skills people come with are, are broken.
Loren Sanders: Give me a team that
has all of the generations in it,
because they will do much better work.
And we're seeing, I mean, you know, I
do coaching as part of my work, but I'm
coaching a lot of people in the career
space right now that feel like they're
being discriminated against because
they're of a certain age and that nobody
wants them anymore when they have such
amazing knowledge and talent to share.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Sean Stowers: opinion
piece, The Great Stay.
Um, and, and we talked a
little bit about the resentism.
The very next paragraph, which I think
is super interesting, is there are 7
million, nearly 7 million people who
are unemployed and finding it difficult
to get interviews, let alone a job.
Um, young people are hunting
for their first roles, and older
Americans who have been laid off
are flooding social media sites.
Such as TikTok to air their frustrations.
And so it, it is super interesting
when we, again, think about, think
about this dynamic of what we're seeing
that the skills that are missing in
the marketplace, all of that, I think
there are some flaws in our demographic
assumptions of what, what, what, what's
available to us in the workplace.
Brandy Dawson: Well, and one of
those is that not especially with
Gen Z and younger generations don't
necessarily see the value of higher
education or higher educations just
become completely unaffordable.
And I think in that world economic forum,
one of the jobs that they said would
be on the rise was in higher education.
That was, you know, it towards.
The, you know, on the page as far as
what was going up were teachers and
higher education, but that may not come
from a university or from a college.
And so then it's going to be upon learning
and development teams like you all to, um,
to help, you know, how do you bring these
people in straight out of high school?
And you're creating those bespoke
experiences or unified experiences
to upskill them because Either they
don't value the high school, you
know, the college degree, or they
can't afford the college degree.
It's out of reach, and they don't want
to spend four years, you know, four
years and hundreds of thousands of
dollars in debt if they can't afford it.
I mean, Sean, you and I both know
this higher education debt, what, $1.7
trillion Um, they don't
want to add to that.
Sean Stowers: Well, and to your point,
Brady, which is so interesting, is
when there are successive years of
headlines of college graduates not
doing well after spending four years
to get the degree, at some point you
have to look and go, why am I going?
Now, interestingly enough, there
was a report, the National Student
Clearinghouse issued a report today saying
that higher ed enrollment went up 4.5
last year.
And so it's pre pandemic
levels, but still.
I think that it's, I still think that
there's, um, a lot of headwind for higher
education in terms of how it's viewed
by its core, its core customer, which is
that 18 year old who's about to graduate
high school, who is evaluating whether or
not they want to get a four year degree.
Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah, there's, uh,
you know, uh, I want to say healthcare
insurance is one of these markets
that is being, uh, where a lot of
people are venting their frustrations.
They find this institution to
be broken in different ways.
I think higher education is Kind of the
one below that almost where there are a
lot of people that are very frustrated
and have a lot of conflicting opinions
about it and it's very divisive and I see
this where, uh, some major, major people
are starting universities or starting
learning tech companies and different
things because they, they are seeing
this kind of frustration, this disruption
in that market, if you call it that.
Sean Stowers: Yeah, I would say, yeah.
Brandon Giella: six and a half years
total, and I feel like I spent 100, 000
to just get the basics of these different
disciplines, just the basics, you know,
to understand, just to get my feet wet.
And to say that, you know, you
need to go to school for so many
years to learn all these things.
I mean, I, I try to jumpstart that
and it's still really difficult.
Loren Sanders: Brandon, I'll just
say, um, did, I would ask you if your
education, your, your master's programs
had practitioner taught learning, or
was it professorial taught learning
Brandon Giella: Yeah, the first
one is four years is in theology.
So it's very professorial, very academic.
You know, these people had multiple PhDs
at some of the best schools in the world.
And it was very, you
know, heady knowledge.
The second one was an MBA in
finance, and it was all practitioner,
you know, these folks were, you
know, opening up spreadsheets and
walking us through accounting.
They all have very, very,
uh, practical background.
So I got both, but it's, it's still tough.
It's, it's a lot to learn,
I think, is the point.
And I have another point on that in
a second, but I want to come back to
Sean Stowers: but, but here's
the thing that I think is
important about what you said.
And I think this is one of the things
I find to be a disconnect between what
companies expect of higher education
and what higher education does, which
is you cannot hire someone who comes
out of a four year degree program or.
You know, out of an MBA program and
expect that they have everything that
they need to know to, to perform in
their job for the next 40 to 60 years.
Right?
So, number one, there's no way for
us to cram all that knowledge in your
head prior to you getting the job
Loren Sanders: theory and practice?
Sean Stowers: it, it is, it
is, it is just impractical.
It is not, it's not possible.
So as organizations, we have to embrace
our role in developing further skills.
Right?
It just, we have to because it's
not possible for you to, to, to, to
walk in, you know, we're now talking
about the hundred year career.
Like, you know, about people who are going
to be able to work for a hundred years.
Like that, the, it would be impossible.
You would, you would not start working
until you were 60 if we had to cram
all that knowledge in your head first.
Right?
Like just in terms of the amount of time
it would take for you to master all that.
I think that's the impracticality of it.
Loren Sanders: But the on the job reality
of what we do as learning leaders becomes
all the more important right there.
I
Brandon Giella: I want
to come back to Brandy.
You mentioned something that kind of
tipped me off to this chart that I saw
in the World Economic Forum report.
So this is.
Uh, if you download the PDF on page
37, there is this chart and this chart
lists out the top 20 skills that the
report, um, surveyed the respondents
and all of them have a net increase
of demand and use, except for two.
And the two at the bottom
are manual dexterity.
And reading, writing, and mathematics.
And those have a net decrease.
Everything else is on the rise.
Some hugely in demand.
And to your point, you were making this
point earlier, and Sean, you made this
point as well, where it's all of the
above is what is making this so difficult.
So, I'll just list a few of these
skills that are all in huge demand.
All together, at the same time.
AI and Big Data, Network, Cyber Security,
Technological Literacy, Creative
Thinking, Resilience, Flexibility and
Agility, Curiosity and Lifelong Learning,
Leadership and Social Influence,
Talent Management, Analytical Thinking,
Environmental Stewardship, Systems
Thinking, and so on, so on, so on, so on.
This is a huge range of skills.
I mean, where do you even start?
And of course people feel anxious
about their work, like they're not
learning or they're having trouble,
because it's just a huge demand.
I mean, where do you even begin?
Loren Sanders: have a thought
on that if it's helpful.
I think future proofing your workforce
isn't about predicting what the
next big thing is going to be.
It's about helping your Colleagues,
learners, employees, whatever
you want to call them to remain
flexible, resilient, and bold enough
to embrace change as it comes.
And if you aren't leaning into the L&
D community to help bridge the gaps
between today's workforce and tomorrow's
challenges, you're starting behind.
Brandy Dawson: I think it's going
to be, I mean, obviously the mindset
is going to have to be continuous.
The ability to learn, learning to
learn and learning to relearn and
to rethink things all along the way.
And then with all those skills, Brandon,
that you just listed off, um, I, you know,
this is probably conversations that are
happening in boardrooms and institutions.
What are, you know, on that list,
what are those skills that are
most important to your future
strategy and your future success?
So I don't think there's, you know, you
can list all of them all at the same time.
For some companies, they're really going
to have to lean in on a few of those to,
to upskill and reskill their workforce
Sean Stowers: by the way, I want
to build on something that both
of you said, and here's what's
important for an L& D leader.
And I'm going to say this, that whether
you are an L& D leader at a Fortune
500, or you're an L& D leader at an
organization of 100 employees, All of
these trends impact you, um, and, and,
Brandy Dawson: or just one
Sean Stowers: or all of them,
or just one, yeah, or only one.
But, but here's the other thing, to what
Brandy just said, this is the conversation
that's going on in the boardroom.
This is the conversation that
your CEO and CFO are having.
This is the conversation, if you're
in a publicly traded company, that
your board of directors are having.
If you as a learning leader aren't looking
at your stakeholders and asking them,
Of these trends, which ones are the ones
that impact us the most in terms of our
strategy and what skills I have to be, do
I have to be building in the organization?
The conversation that they're going to
have isn't about how to build the skills.
It's going to be how to go buy it.
And by the way, buying it
is, is, is fundamentally.
More expensive than building it and when
they have to go buy it, the question
is going to become what do we cut
in order to afford that acquisition
and and that's where you then get
into, hey, learning budgets get cut.
There are there are layoffs of employees
who haven't been re skilled because
we just went and bought the skill
in the marketplace, whether that is.
Bringing in more expensive
talent to do the work or buying a
company that has, has the skill.
Those are the conversations that are
going on and so that's why I think we
brought, you know, why we're talking about
this today and why this, this particular
report is so important for L& D leaders.
It's because this is what's,
this is what's being talked
about in your board of directors.
This is what's being talked about
in the family offices if you're
working for a family owned business.
This is what's on your, your,
your executive leadership's mind.
Shareholders.
Brandy Dawson: and the CEO, you
also have another stakeholder group
where this is being talked about.
And that's your shareholders
and your investors.
So we, you know.
World Economic Forum.
There are a lot of people from
the financial community there.
Um, and a lot of CEOs from big
investment firms and they are asking,
you know, and I've sat in on many, uh,
analyst calls and, you know, investor
calls, and they're asking about what
are you doing to upscale or reskill?
What skills do you see as the most
important to deliver against your strategy
to be able to hit this number, whatever
your goals are that you've set out.
Um, so there's another one to take
into account and to your point,
you've got to get the balance right.
You can't, you know, you can't say,
okay, we need to reskill this huge
portion of our, of our employees, but
we're not going to invest in L& D.
They have to work together in concert.
Loren Sanders: It comes, I would
say, I think it comes down to
developing your programs in a way
that addresses the short term gaps.
while building scalable
pathways for future skills.
And being able to prioritize how that
happens, I would just say Eisenhower
matrixed the heck out of things.
Brandon Giella: To Brandy's point, this
is so fundamentally important that this
is on analyst calls, investor calls,
shareholders are caring about this, world
leaders are going to Switzerland and
talking about this and releasing these
giant reports because it is, learning
is so fundamental to the future of
work that it's, L& D has a real seat at
the table to help resolve this issue.
Sean Stowers: And, and Brandon, when
we do that, just as a note for our
listeners, when we do the show notes for
this and put everything together, can
we make sure that we link to the report?
Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
It's, it's incredibly valuable to read.
I mean, it's like 200 pages.
So maybe not the whole thing,
but at least see the charts.
They're really helpful.
Brandy Dawson: But, but that goes
back to reading and math and, and kind
of writing being down at the bottom.
Now that you have someone who can
rewrite things, but reading even one
of the things, um, you know, as far
as I'm not surprised to see reading go
down because one of my son's tricks.
You know, when he was in college, he
was working, he was playing a sport,
um, he was going to classes full time.
And when he would run out of time,
he would take PDFs and say, summarize
this PDF, um, and because he's like,
mom, I just can't do all the reading.
And so I've got to try to find strategies
to, to be able to get through all this
reading so I can be prepared for class.
So I'm not surprised to see that go down.
Sorry, Sean.
Sean Stowers: Yeah, well, but, but
I want to propose maybe a little
bit of a homework assignment
for our listeners about this.
Take the report, download it,
get ChatGBT, tell ChatGBT the
kind of company you work in.
If you're a public company, maybe feed
it your most recent annual report.
Ask it to analyze the two things
together and talk about what are the
most important skill development needs
that It sees based on analyzing those
two things and use that and then,
by the way, go question the output
Loren Sanders: I want
to say validate that.
Validate that
Sean Stowers: question, question
the output, validate it,
test the assumptions of it.
But here's the thing, right?
Begin to put those, that together, right?
Put those things together
and see what it does.
I'm not saying take it as, do not
take it as whole truth, but, but use
it as a way to begin to say, hey, can
we validate this as a conversation?
Is this right?
But I mean, that's an example
of using, you know, perhaps AI
to bring together some rapid
insights for you to then go test.
Brandon Giella: Isn't that a fascinating
set of skills, you know, we, we just
talked about all those skills and
Sean, with your, your tip, you're
combining so much of that critical
thinking, you know, technology, big
data and AI reading and writing, and,
and you're combining all of that in
your relationship to chat to BT, isn't
Sean Stowers: Well, and, and by the way,
Brandy Dawson: thinking and
Sean Stowers: I, yeah,
Loren Sanders: and curiosity.
Curiosity.
Sean Stowers: and by the way, recommending
it for a, recommending it for a learning
leader, but also exactly the type of skill
set that we want every employee to have
when it comes to working alongside AI.
Brandon Giella: Amen.
Brandy Dawson: and, and I mean,
but, but underscoring what Lauren
said, validate, validate, validate.
Sean Stowers: validate.
Absolutely.
Brandy Dawson: tell you how many
times I've been sitting there
with cloud and going cloud.
I don't think so.
Can you give me a source for that?
Did you make that up?
Yeah, I may have made it that, you know,
so, you know, it is really important.
While those tools are powerful, depending
on what you're using them and you're
using them to do, I cannot emphasize
enough how important it is to validate.
Sean Stowers: I think as, as much
as I think that the point about
validation here is as much as we a
board group think, right, you have
to, you have to realize that AI, a
large language model, has basically
been trained on groupthink, right?
So you need to question the group.
You need to push, push
beyond the borders of that.
Um, and again, I think that, but that's
also a fundamentally human skill.
And that, and that brings
us back to, to this.
So.
Brandon Giella: but I'll, but I'll say
to, to Brandy's point, you know, you're,
you're, and collectively you're 20
years of experience in the workforce and
reading and thinking and writing has,
it forms the basis of your ability to be
critical thinkers, you know, but somebody
who's 20, you know, just out of school,
22, just out of school, a lot harder.
So anyway, that's probably
another episode topic right there.
So I'll just end on that,
but it is, it's tough.
It's tough, but it's a super helpful tool.
I, We can talk about that all day.
I love it.
Uh, well, thank you so much,
uh, Sean, Lauren, Brandy.
This has been another great conversation,
and there's so many things that we
could be talking about for hours,
I'm sure, about all these issues.
But, yes, highly recommend reading
the World Economic Forum report.
I'm excited to see what the Uh, I got
summaries from the, uh, the, uh, Davos
Switzerland meetings are this week.
I guess I'll, I'll ask Chachi
PT later on, but, um, yeah.
So thank you again for your expertise
and, uh, this riveting conversation.
Hopefully Brandy, we'll have
you back on another episode.
Brandy Dawson: Thanks for having me.
It's been a pleasure.
Bye everyone.
Loren Sanders: Thank
Sean Stowers: everyone.
Brandon Giella: Thanks y'all.
See ya.
Loren Sanders: Bye.