Creating Supportive Environments for All: Embracing ABA

Show Notes

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Unlock the potential of Applied Behavioral Analysis (ABA) with our distinguished guests, Rebecca and David Johnson, both Board Certified Behavior Analysts (BCBAs). Discover how ABA extends beyond therapy for individuals with autism and into everyday scenarios like seatbelt reminders and the efficiency of business practices. Rebecca and David share their experiences and strategies for using ABA principles to foster independence and address socially significant behaviors, emphasizing personalized approaches and the importance of collaboration with families.

Explore the journey of effective communication and behavior reinforcement, particularly for children facing communication challenges. We discuss how clear expectations and consistent language, such as using "safe hands" or "calm hands," can guide children towards positive behaviors in various situations. Learn about the significance of generalizing these skills across different environments and how embedding these strategies into daily routines creates a supportive atmosphere that promotes adaptability and growth.

Collaboration stands at the heart of successful ABA implementation, especially in educational settings. In our conversation, we stress the value of teamwork among teachers, parents, caregivers, and specialists to create supportive environments that understand and accommodate the unique needs of each child. Rebecca and David's dedication is apparent as they share how being a reliable presence in classrooms and homes can make a profound impact. We express gratitude for their insights and passion, setting the stage for future enriching discussions.

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What is Life in the IEP Tribe?

Join us as we dive into the world of special education with two educators who have walked the same path as many of you. In addition to teaching in self-contained and collaborative settings, our hosts bring a unique perspective to the challenges and triumphs of raising a special needs child. From classroom strategies to heartfelt family moments, they offer practical advice, empathy, and a community of support. Discover how their personal experiences can shed light on your journey and gain valuable insights into navigating the complexities of special education both in and out of the classroom. Welcome to the tribe!

Speaker 1: so we're going to
kick off another one, another

podcast episode, with other
people.

I'm very excited about this,
and so, uh, a couple weeks ago

we got to have, uh, one of our
friends, miss limpert, on with

us and that was super cool and
we really enjoyed it.

And then last week we got to
talk with another special

education teacher who's been in
this game for a very long time

and Freda Buck.

Todd Zander.

Speaker 3: Yeah, and Todd Zander
and.

Speaker 1: Todd Zander.

Yeah, we were very excited
about that.

So this week we have not just
one, but two, yes, and they are

coming to talk with us about
this thing.

I'm going to say it's going to
be about ABA, but I think

there's a lot of things that are
going to fall underneath it,

and so one of the things that
we're going to have to do after

I introduce you is we're going
to have to probably explain what

all the acronyms are the A B
and the A and the B C and the B

A and the all of that stuff.

But today, tonight, this
evening, this episode that's

where I'm going to.

This episode we have Rebecca
and David Johnson.

Did I get that right?

Speaker 3: Yes.

Speaker 1: Okay, good, because
names are horrible.

True story.

So check this out.

I was doing a wedding and
luckily it was a very, very

small one and we're standing
there and so I use the same

wedding script every wedding.

Right, I mean, why wouldn't the
world?

Will we try to reinvent the
wheel?

So I get up there and and, uh,
I start reading through the

script and I called the guy the
wrong name.

Yeah, I was like, oh, your
name's not Tom.

That's kind of the thing.

So even with stuff right in
front of me, I still mess up

names.

So we have yes, we have David
and we have Rebecca with us and

they are.

Correct me if I get this wrong.

You are You're, you know what.

You just tell me and everybody
else that's listening, which is

pretty much my mom.

I think that you tell them what
it is that you do and what the

little letters around your name
mean.

Speaker 4: Okay, we are both
BCBAs and that is a board

certified behavior analyst both
BCBAs and that is a board

certified behavior analyst.

What that means is we both got
our master's and then took a

certification exam to show that
we are qualified to have

opinions, sometimes about
behavior.

Speaker 1: Sometimes I like that
.

Speaker 4: This actually is my
11th.

This month is my 11th year of
being a BCBA.

I've been in the field of ABA
for about 13 years and this is a

year and a half two years a
year and a half as a BCBA.

Speaker 2: I've been in the
field since 2016.

So ABA is Applied Behavioral
Analysis and what we do is

basically find what is socially
significant for individuals with

autism more specifically, but
it can be used in many different

ways ways.

Organizational behavior
management OBM is something that

is used, probably more commonly
known, to help you know where

to put stuff on the shelves, how
to stock the shelves so people

can get what they need, the way
to design the supermarket, or

you know one of our favorite
places to go Chick-fil-A, the

way they have the double
drive-thru right.

Those are all things that try
to be more efficient you know

the efficiency of a business.

Speaker 4: But we work with
people.

We work with kids primarily
diagnosed with autism, but

that's really just because
that's the only diagnosis,

insurance will pay for and cover
the therapy.

But we do consult in the
schools.

We, you know, have experience
in different settings.

Consult in the schools we, you
know, have experience in

different settings.

Aba is is all around us.

The annoying seatbelt you know
beeping to put on your seatbelt,

taking medication when you have
a headache.

Those are all principles of ABA
at work.

Speaker 1: If I'm understanding
you correctly, it is in what

ways can we help equip, in this
case, a child, to better

function in the world around
them?

And I think I think there's a
lot to be said for approaches

like that, because I know that,
for instance me, growing up, it

was very common to be told this
is just how you do things, so

you do it, whether you're good
at it or not.

This is how it is, this is how
the school setting is, this is

how and you just got to make
that happen.

And I think something that
we've learned, laura and I both

in the time that we've been in a
special education, is that,

yeah, that's not the best way to
approach it Shocking Like it

doesn't, it doesn't quite work
that way shocking, like it

doesn't, it doesn't quite work
that way.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I, um, I
go into every assessment and

when I train people and you know
, like my ultimate goal is how

can we improve the quality of
life for this individual and

their families because it's
bigger than just them, um, and

also, what skills can we teach
them so that they can be as

independent as possible?

And that looks different for
every individual.

What, what means?

What Johnny's independent
potential is is going to be

different than you know, jenny's
independent potential, and, and

that's determined by you know,
collaborate, collaboration and

figuring out.

What skills do we have now and
where do you want them to go?

And what is your plan for your
child and what is your plan,

your five-year plan, where do
you want?

What are your biggest struggles
now?

You know, in the, when they're
older, what's the plan?

Are they going to live
independently?

Are they going to?

You know, figuring out and
that's it's hard as parents to

kind of figure that out, but
unfortunately, I think that's a

big part of especially having
students with special needs is

something you do have to think
about what's the next step,

what's the long term goal?

And kind of figuring out what
that looks like so we know how

to target right now, so we can
plan for that.

Speaker 3: That makes definitely
makes sense.

There.

You're talking about having
different plans.

Plan.

So, like, what is a uh behavior
management plan that you like

describe a successful one, that
you have um made and that

implemented uh, in the school
setting?

And also, how can you take that
and put it in the home setting?

Because, because you guys go to
, you have different settings

that you work in.

So maybe first answer that,
what are the different settings

that you serve children and
family and then talk about a

plan you implemented and how you
go from those settings.

Speaker 2: So settings you know
me personally that I've worked

in other than the clinical
setting, you know out, in the

community, with multiple
individuals in home, in school.

Also, there was a few clients
that you know I've attended.

You know, dentist appointments.

Or even something as simple as
a haircut.

You know we did that, which I
thought was, you know, probably

one of the coolest things,
something that you know most

people would really take for
granted.

You know, being able to get a
haircut.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 2: You know this family
struggled for a long time.

So the settings that you know
we have gone into is, you know,

just about any setting that the
child will, you know, enter in

their own life or in the life of
their family.

So you know in each setting is
different.

In our clinical setting,
obviously, you know we have

control of the environment.

We have control of you know the
outside variables.

You know we can set up the
rooms in, you know the

situations in the way that we
need to.

But it's not always like that.

So in the classroom, setting
some of the different behavior

management strategies that have
been used, first and foremost we

try to find positive
reinforcement that's going to

motivate to get the specific,
correct behaviors that we're

looking for.

One small downfall is typically
sometimes we don't have the

appropriate skill set that we
need to reach the function of

that behavior, appropriate skill
set that we need to reach the

function of that behavior.

So, for example, if you know
we're engaging in, you know, a

disruptive behavior, a scream or
something you know that could

be to get attention right or to
get out of doing something, for

example.

And if we know we scream, you
know everybody looks at us.

That's very quick to us to
teach us how to gain that

attention that we're looking for
In an inappropriate way, In an

inappropriate way you know
everybody looks at us.

That's very quick to us to teach
us how to gain that attention

that we're looking for In an
inappropriate way.

In an inappropriate way, you
know, because whether it's you

know, the positive social
attention you know great job,

high fives, you know stuff like
that.

Even a reprimand is attention
right.

So that is also going to feed
those attention-seeking

behaviors.

So one thing we have to do
first is find a replacement

skill for that.

So you know, if Johnny, for
example, needs someone's

attention, whether it's you know
using their words excuse me, I

need your help or raising a hand
in classroom, you know, or you

know, tap, hey, we need to teach
those quickly and reinforce

that replacement behavior as
heavily as possible.

So that's where we go to first,
versus something that has

already been reinforced for a
time frame.

You know the screaming and if
we can get that, you know we're.

We're on a moving track.

So with that, you know, we have
different reinforcement systems

typically in the classroom.

One that is easy to implement
across the classroom in

different settings is token
economy, which I think most

teachers are very familiar with.

So it's not having to teach
them a different skill set, it's

teaching them a skill set that
they already have and how to

specifically implement it.

A couple of different.

You know varieties of it in the
classroom.

We've done individual.

You know token boards for each
kid at their desk.

Know whether it's.

You know four or five kids.

I've been in a classroom we did
like a big wall chart.

Each kid has their name and you
know, as the teacher was

teaching or the parents were
teaching or they were in the,

each student was engaging in the
appropriate behavior that we

were looking to gain, whether it
was a hand raise or keeping

their hands themselves.

You know, oh hey, awesome job.

And giving them that shout out
and giving them that checkmark

or that stick, that sticker, not
just for them.

Speaker 1: I like that.

Speaker 2: Not just for them to
see, but for everybody else in

the class to see.

Speaker 4: There's a lot of
research to sorry.

There's a lot of research side
quest about public praise, right

, public posting, and one that's
effective because one it's like

oh well, they got praise.

I want that too, so let so, let
me do the right thing.

You can individualize it.

Maybe David needs to work on
having nice hands and his hands

down, but I need to work on not
interrupting and raising my hand

right, so you can individualize
it.

But it's visual, so it's that
visual reminder.

My name is up there.

Why is my name up there?

Oh right, my name is up there.

You know why is my name up
there?

All right, I need to raise my
hand to to get some attention.

So, and there's a lot of
research to show the

effectiveness of public posting,
so I can't, oh, no, no, you're

fine.

Speaker 2: And then typically
you know each, each individual

has something that they're
working for Right, Earn your

five check marks you get, you
know, your, your ball, or your

car, or to read your story, or
to just go sit in a rocking

chair, something that you know
is reinforcing that terminal

reinforcer for them which you
know, when we're using the token

economy, we want to gain prior
to and it may change while we

work through and get our check
marks and get our tokens.

But you know, if we don't know
what we're working for from the

start, it makes it really hard
to be motivating.

And then the simple way we've
transitioned that into a house.

I worked with this, I worked
with this family and they did

the same thing and they put
everybody's name in the family

on the fridge in the same kind
of diagram.

And although it was just for the
daughter, you know, mom's name

was up there, dad's name was up
there, brother's name was up

there.

So anytime anybody engaged in
this appropriate havers, you

know, uh, doing their chores,
picking up their stuff, putting

their backpack away where it
goes, finishing their homework.

You know these simple things,
um brushing their teeth,

brushing their teeth, not
yelling at their sibling.

You know, using kind language,
they would get their check marks

, and you know their five check
marks or their 10 check marks,

and you know we get, uh,
whatever it was at the time.

You know time on a tablet.

You know our ice cream treat.

So, um, those are those
positive reinforcement ways um

to do that.

Um, unfortunately, though, I
think um Sometimes we get past

that and you know we engage in
some challenging behaviors and

we need to find appropriate ways
to manage those in the

classroom.

So you know it's important to
find the function of those and

meet that as quickly as possible
, and that's where teaching,

that replacement behavior kind
of comes into place.

Speaker 3: So these positive
charts and, rebecca, you said

they've done a lot of research
on that, and so I'm assuming, by

you saying that, that they
found that the positive public

charts are more effective than
the, let's say, the old school

stoplight and where you're
bumping them down for the

negative behavior.

Is that?

Would that be a good assumption
?

Speaker 4: Yeah, like oh, you
lost recess, oh you're on red,

oh, the up and down, the color
charts.

I think that, right, it goes
back to finding the function of

the behavior and that the
function of my behavior is

attention, whether you move me
to red or you move me to blue or

you know wherever in between,
or I lost recess, I, I bothered

you, I took time out of your
teaching to to tell me something

, so I got attention right, and
so I'm going to continue to do

that, because a lot of times and
as parents we do it, and

clinicians we do it, and as
teachers we do it we we miss a

lot of the catchy being good,
right, it's a lot of.

I see you at your seat, I see
you yelling, I see you right.

The school has, you know, pbis
and they use class dojo a lot.

That's a token economy and I
think that that can be

implemented really well.

And it can be implemented not
effectively if we only catch

that you're talking in the hall,
you've lost a dojo, but we

didn't catch the other 50 times.

I was walking in the hall
quietly, right.

So I think that it's definitely
important to identify, you know

, making it clear what is it
that, what are, what are we

working on?

What are we trying to do?

Make that clear to everyone
involved in like, okay, that's

what we're going to provide
attention for, that's what we're

going to give tokens for,
that's what you know, that's

what we're going to acknowledge
and bring attention to or

provide reinforcement to.

Is the desired behavior, saying
what we want you to do not, hey

, get off the table.

It's like feet on the floor,
don't stand on your chair.

It's bottom in your chair.

You know what I mean, like
telling me what I am supposed to

do, especially when we interact
with kids who have a

communication deficit Right.

And so if I say don't stand on
the chair, all I heard was stand

chair right, like I, if I have
communication deficit.

That's a lot of words that you
know.

The message isn't clear, and so
it's really important to be

clear in what our expectations
are.

So I'm gonna tell you what to
do.

Hey, let's have safe hands.

You know that's a quick and
easy way.

I'm a big fan of like hey, fold
your hands.

If you're doing this, you can't
hit me, you can't pinch me,

Right, and it's a quick, and we
can do this in the store and we

can do it at home, and we can do
it in the playground, and we

can do it in the lunchroom, in
the car, we can do it in the car

.

So I'm a big fan of you know,
hey, hold your hands.

Speaker 3: Instead of don't hit,
no, we don't pinch, no, we what

we do, because I'm doing it
Like oh yeah, let me show you.

Speaker 4: You know, I know a
lot of times you want to be like

don't hit, and I know I
understand the desire to do that

, but it's right.

Hold your hands, cause if your
hands are like this, it's really

hard to you know, pinch and do
some of those.

And also you're telling me what
to do and it's, it's to the

point hold your hands, safe
hands, whatever language you

know we want to use, but
pointing out the it's to the

point Hold your hands, safe
hands, whatever language we want

to use, but pointing out the
what to do and reinforcing that

desired behavior goes a lot
further.

Speaker 2: And do you see
benefits to?

You talked about this strategy,
using the same strategy and

same language at school and at
home.

Yeah, so I think that's
obviously generalization is

really important in what we do.

Um, working across different
settings, different environment,

different people implementing
the different things, um, we

would love for you know it to be
generalized in a way that

anybody can say kind of anything
semi-related to it and they

understand.

Unfortunately, it's not.

It doesn't react that quickly.

Typically, when we teach
replacement behaviors or you

know even that simple fold your
hands or calm hands, it is the

same immediately just to get
that response that way.

Calm hands, great Thanks for
coming.

Calm hands, great, and
reinforce that calm hands.

So that would be the SD that we
would teach everybody to use

and it would be really important
to use that because that in our

setting, in the clinic, that's
what we have used to.

You know, implement that.

This is the behavior, the
desired behavior, we're looking

for.

You know even something as
simple as you know having a kid.

Take a break.

You know some of the kids
depending on their communication

skills hey, bud, you look
frustrated.

Let's take a break.

You know some of the kids
depending on their communication

skills.

Hey, bud, you look frustrated.

Let's take a break, right,
which is fine if we have that

communication skills, but if we
have the, you know, receptive

and expressive deficits, we need
to find a way to, you know,

quickly.

Do that, hey, bud, take a break
or, you know, assign break.

Speaker 4: Or a picture of what
I think you said blue mat or

blue area.

You said earlier think you said
blue mat or blue, uh, blue area,

you said earlier, whatever that
is, like you know, um, I think

the communication is super
important.

It's important, um, across all
settings.

And so generalization in the
sense of we have the skill here,

we have it's great if in my
four walls we can get this

behavior under control.

But that's not that kid's
reality, right, they're going to

go into the store, they're
going to go into the school,

they, they're going to go at
home and we need to be able to

generalize that skill across all
those settings.

And, like David said, it's it's
ideally we can kind of we try to

teach different language so
that they respond the same way,

and it doesn't have to be, in
our experience, kids with autism

, or you know, we like routines,
we like sameness, but we also

have to teach flexibility and
make it predictable.

And so the model if I model it
and I say safe hands and I model

it and I say calm hands and I
model it and I say hold your

hands right, I'm using different
language so that anybody might

say something different, but
they all mean this.

So that's a way that that's.

Another form of generalization
is that I'm using different

instructions, but the behavior
is going to be the same, because

it's really important to teach
that flexibility Right it's.

It's really important that we
don't have to say the same thing

, thing the exact same way in
all environments to get that

behavior.

That's not functional for that
individual.

And so it's important that when
we're teaching kids, either in

the clinic or in the school
setting, that we're embedding

generalization into that and
saying it different ways with

the same model.

And you know.

Speaker 3: So yeah, period
you've talked a lot about um.

You're saying you know kids and
students and whatnot.

Is there an age cap or your age
range like what youngest,

oldest of um individuals you
serve?

Speaker 2: um, I've served
individuals, uh, the oldest

individual I've personally
worked with, I believe he was 24

.

Um, and you know, with this
individual we work um, he um,

you know, very, uh, our
communication skills were great

Um, some, some things in the
world we didn't understand

because it wasn't, you know,
routine and regimented, um,

right.

So some of the things we worked
on is he, he had a, a big

desire to get his GED, um, and
then get a job, um, and he

wanted to work at Taco Bell,
which I love because, uh, you

know, I support the Baja Blast.

Um, so you know, the different
things we worked on is one

figuring out, okay, what are the
steps that we need to do to be

able to take that test?

Okay, right, so we figured that
out, I said, and then, you know

, we sat down okay, what is
going to be on that test and

what do we need to be ready for?

Speaker 3: Oops, I think we
froze, they froze.

Speaker 2: And he got I'm sorry,
hi, um, hi, hey, we're back.

We figured out all the steps,
right, um, and you know we got

it scheduled and he figured out
how to get there.

And you know he didn't drive.

So it's like, okay, well, if
your parents can't take you,

what are other ways we can get
there?

He's like, okay, we can call an
uber.

Um, I didn't really follow up
on how he got there, but he got

there, he took it.

You know, he passed test and,
as far as I know, he, you know,

landed that job at Taco Bell
because we worked on job

applications and interviews and
stuff like that.

Speaker 4: We don't in in the
clinic.

I've primarily in the clinic
setting and in the school

setting.

We don't really have an age
limit.

It's as soon as kids can get
diagnosed again, because

insurance only pays for a
diagnosis.

And as far as an age cap, we
primarily work with children but

also ABA can be effective in
any realm of life abilities.

But it's really what's
appropriate and what's

functional.

If I have a bunch of
two-year-olds in the building

and I have an 18-year-old who
needs services to work on job

applications, that's not really
functional or appropriate for

that individual and so am I
going to be able to serve his

needs?

Probably not in that setting,
because right now our building

is filled with, you know, early
intervention age.

So it's kind of looking at that
as far as ABA and what as a

BCBA.

It's kind of looking at that as
far as ABA and what as a BCBA

right limits?

There aren't really any.

Our ethical code dictates we
work within our scope of what we

know and what we have
experience with in practice can

do effectively and ethically,
but also from a from a clinic

standpoint.

Taking that into consideration,
can I meet your needs from a

clinic standpoint?

Taking that into consideration,
can I meet your needs Right.

Can I?

Is this an appropriate setting
for you to be around at 24?

Speaker 2: to be around?

Speaker 4: probably not.

And so taking that into account,
or flip side right, if I have a

bunch of 18 year olds,
teenagers, is it appropriate to

then have a three-year-old come?

And you know, so it's just
taking that into account.

And and if we can meet your
needs, and that's you know.

So it's just taking that into
account and and if we can meet

your needs, and that's you know,
on an individual clinic basis,

but as a, as a field, there
isn't really a limit.

We currently, in our company
where we work, serve, I think

our youngest is two Um, and the
oldest we currently have is uh

16.

Um and so um.

My baby cannot be 17, uh,
anyway, so um, um.

But we, you know, we worked out
the schedule so we have age-like

peers at certain, because
that's that's the skill we're

working on with that individual
um, you know, we have different

individuals.

We have a um 11, 14, 14 year,
14 year old who has very minimal

communication and some, you
know, self injurious behavior

and and limited functional
skills, and so he comes to see

us in the afternoons and we work
on those skills with him, you

know.

So it's about making sure that
we have the right supports in

place and that we can meet those
needs in the right age group.

If we're working on social
skills and I have no peers, you

know I'm not doing.

I'm doing that.

That student, that client, a
service.

Speaker 1: So so if we, if we
come into contact with, with

parents who maybe feel like
they're at their end, they don't

know what else to do, little
Jimmy, you know, little Jill is

middle school, high school, and
it's not too late, right, we

should tell the parents can
reach out and we'll, we'll get

them in the right direction.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's never too
late, I think um, you know, the

biggest, uh, the biggest um tips
and the quickest is um one.

We try to identify the function
of whatever behavior is

happening.

If it's inappropriate behavior,
why is this happening?

All behaviors communication.

Aba focuses on four main
functions, four main reasons why

behaviors occur and kind of
categorize them accordingly.

And then when we try to
identify, okay, why is it

occurring, what's a more
appropriate way to meet that

need?

Right?

So, like we were talking, about
earlier yelling right, so

yelling is not necessarily
appropriate.

Okay, what's a more appropriate
way to meet that need?

And so that's how we work on
replacement behaviors.

It has to meet that same need,
stereotypy.

And so they're like in a
classroom setting, you can

imagine, this is really
disruptive and it's pretty

consistent and constant.

And so, you know, we try to do a
component analysis.

Okay, why are we doing this?

Is it the sound?

Is it the vocals?

Do we need headphones?

Can we try music?

Is it the sensation?

Do we need to simulate that in
some way?

Right, like recreate that, that
vibration, right.

And so trying to identify, like,
really nitpick, what is it that

is reinforcing and maintaining
this behavior?

And so, obviously, that's a.

You know a case by case
situation, but overall there are

.

You know what, why are we doing
this and how can we do this

more appropriately?

And then creating contingencies
, and what I mean by that is

when A happens, b happens every
time, and making sure that those

are clear, they're concise and
it's consistent.

Right, if I say we do our
homework and then we get ice

cream and then you do your
homework three days in a row and

I'm like oh, I forgot, I forgot
, I forgot, you're going to stop

doing your homework or you're
going to stop believing what I

say.

And you know, obviously that's
an exaggerated example, but it's

the contingency.

When a happens, b happens every
time and it's clear how to do

that.

It's not, you know, sometimes,
and once in a while, and you

know, if we say a contingency,
then that's what's going to

happen.

If I hear a lot like, hey, do
you?

If this happens, I'm going to
call mom, well, you're either

going to call mom or you're not.

We're not going to do this
empty threat thing, right, like

if I'm doing this, you're
calling mom, okay, I'm doing

this, we call mom.

Or if I'm doing this, I get X,
y, z, okay, then I get it right.

And so making sure that what we
say we mean and that it's clear

and it's to the point and it
it's consistent that it happens,

um, every time.

Speaker 1: So I think, like the
favorite, my favorite two words

in this entire conversation has
been replacement behavior,

because I don't think, I don't
think we naturally consider the

why behind right, we just want
to tell kids and even adults

that we work with no, you just
do, because I said do, or that's

just how we do it, or you know
a number of different reasons

why, but asking the question,
why?

why is it that you know this
child is acting this way?

And I understand the you know
desire to extinguish certain

behaviors and all that, but what
you're talking about is you're

you're talking about working
with the person and not with a

set of rules.

You're talking about finding
what is it that is going to help

this child to be the best thing
.

You know, one of my favorite, uh
, professional learnings that we

sat in was when we went and we
listened to Rebecca and she says

I'm all, yeah, I'm going to,
I'm going to share your secret.

She says, listen, I want to
change the world, and the truth

is that we have an opportunity
to do that, and we don't do it

by trying to get people to fit
our rules.

We do it by serving each other
and learning each other, and so

I just want you to know that
Laura and I both uh I mean we we

respect and applaud what you
guys do and um, and just keep

doing it.

You know, I gotta say there was
a time where I was like ABA,

what is that?

That's just some of that hippie
stuff, right, but then, but

then to get to know people that
have done the research, that are

in the field, that are working
with the kids and to hear your

heart and to hear and to see
what you're saying in action, um

has been fantastic and I'm I'm
definitely a believer.

Speaker 4: So definitely yeah,
you know, uh, the same aba, just

like anything.

You know there's pros and cons
and there's people on both sides

of of it and adults who have
had ABA and you know, are

speaking out against it and and
being in the field, you know

it's, it's, it hurts a little
bit but it's definitely

understandable.

It's the same, you know you
it's.

You have a bad doctor, you have
a bad teacher, you have a bad

ABA therapist and you know I, I
understand it can be done badly,

you know we we are working with
a vulnerable population,

population.

You guys are betting in us and
and a lot of times, our kids

don't have the words to say, you
know, and and so that's always

our first goal is how can we get
this kid words, whether that's

with picture communication, with
signs, with with actual vocals,

like, how can we get this kid
to to express themselves,

however quickest and easiest for
them?

And you know, and that's I'm.

I love to hear that you guys
are fans, because you know it's

I, we care so much.

We spend, I'm sure, as you guys
do.

Pillow talk is like what did you
think about this?

How can we?

You know, how can we?

How can we do this better?

And oh, this, this happened
today.

And how can we?

You know, how can we?

How can we do this better?

And oh, this, this happened
today.

And how can we?

How can we help him?

And it's not about checking
boxes.

I'm not here trying to be like
oh he, he hit.

We can't do that.

How are we going to fix it?

I'm not trying to fix it.

How can, how can I better meet
your needs?

You know, like, what is it that
you're trying to communicate?

And obviously people, our kids,
engage in inappropriate

behavior and it gets hilarious,
and you know, and they sometimes

know, and you know, do it on
purpose, and you know, and

that's, you know, understandable
, but it's okay, how can we, how

can we meet, meet these kids
where they are and how can we

meet their needs and how can we
help them navigate their world?

You know.

Speaker 2: Right and so, like,
like you said, you know when we

were growing up, it's just like.

This is what it is.

You go to school, you sit in
class, you do your math.

Part of what we do is figuring
out these individuals, but also

teaching these individuals to
navigate a world that's not

going to change for them.

Right, so the world is not going
to change for them.

You know that's unfortunate,
but I think at least now you

know, in this day and age we
have a lot more understanding.

There's a lot more
understanding of you know autism

and some other.

You know deficits and what
those things need and you know

if we can at least show you know
our learners or our classroom

kids or even the teachers, how
to bend this world that we're in

to fit what they need, but also
teach them the skill sets to be

successful outside of those
settings or in other settings.

You know that's more important
than anything.

You know you know collaborating
with teachers and families and

parents and caregivers and
speech therapists.

It's, you know, it's huge, it's
a big part of what we do.

Unfortunately, it's not always
the easiest, right?

It's like I understand what it
would be like for you know to

show up, you know, first of all,
probably potentially

unannounced, and be like, oh hey
, I'm here to interview today,

right?

It's like when you, when
somebody says your full name,

it's like you're going to the
principal's office.

Okay, what did I do wrong?

What are you here to?

You know?

tell me I can't do and we try
very hard, especially going into

anybody else's setting.

We're not here to judge you.

Speaker 4: We're here to what do
you need from me?

Speaker 2: We're here to be on
the same team Cause, you know,

whether it's for the whole
classroom or that specific

individual, or even even for for
you guys like you just might be

like hey, I, I need help and
you know that's great.

Um, one thing I learned a long
time ago working with kids is

you cannot do it by yourself,
preach, and that's the best way

to do it is to work as a team.

We don't have to.

We don't necessarily always
have to see eye to eye.

We don't even see eye to eye
sometimes with programs that you

know we have for you clients at
the clinic, but we both know

that with us, at least, it's.

Our main goal is to give this
kid the best life.

And you know most, most, most
people that you know interact

with these kids.

That's what you know these
speech pathologists, the

teachers you know, and some
paras, you know anyone in the

classroom, anyone in you know
their speech or any of their

other therapies.

You know that's what they're
there to do.

And sometimes you know sitting
with these parents the hardest

thing is like just seeing how
much they struggle to one,

understand what's going on, and
two to them why is it not normal

?

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: One of the things
I've said for a long time is

there's no such thing as normal
um, you know this, this world

that you talked about, like, oh,
you're supposed to.

Speaker 3: This ain't nothing
normal about no right so we're

all in therapy now trying to
undo it right yes, we're all

just, we're all dysfunctional in
some way.

We, some of us just hide it
better, yeah absolutely but,

it's like how do we work
together?

Speaker 4: you know, like I know
I come into that hi, I'm, you

know, from the district to
observe and like what do you

need from me?

Is usually my first question,
because I'm not here to to

question.

I'm not here to judge.

Um, you know this is not
necessarily how I would do

things, but I'm not here to
question.

I'm not here to judge.

You know this is not
necessarily how I would do

things, but I'm not.

I say it all the time I I got my
SPED teaching credential, I

couldn't do it.

That's why I do what I do.

I, you know, more power to you
guys, and I mean that, you know.

And so trying to like lessen
and take, take people off the

defense, Cause we're all.

You know I'm here to help you.

You know I've ran small groups
before.

I'm here to observe a kid over
there.

It's like, okay, you need that.

You're missing a parrot today,
Let me jump in.

And you know I can observe that
kid while I'm sitting here.

You know, helping.

And sometimes you know it's
like okay, now we can be friends

, Now we, now we're on the same
level.

Speaker 3: I've helped you.

Are you okay with me being in
your room now?

Speaker 4: Yeah Well, we call it
pairing.

There's a strategy in ABA
called pairing, and we could go

into the technical, but in an
applicable setting it's pairing

yourself with reinforcement.

Hey, I'm here to help you.

So when you see me, you're like,
oh, that's the one who will

step in, and we do that with
adults too.

For kids, it's like that's the
one who will step in, and you

know, and we do that with adults
too.

For kids, it's like that's the
one that gives me the high fives

, that's the one that will give
me Avengers stickers, right, but

we have to do it with adults
too.

It's hey, that's the one who
will answer my questions, that's

the one who will jump in, right
, and that's part of my role.

Role is, our role is as a
collaborator, as a provider,

consulting, you know, especially
going into to classrooms and

and especially going into homes,
right, like that's your domain.

I, I am just here to figure out
how can I make your life easier

, you know.

Speaker 1: So um yeah, good team
well, david and rebecca, I

think it's about time for us to
wrap this up, but let me say so

oftentimes you'll hear people
talk in different fields and

they'll say all the right things
and all the right words, but

everything that David and
Rebecca have shared, with us

like we've seen it and
experienced it firsthand.

We've heard both of them say,
hey, we're here to help you, how

can we help?

And then we've seen them
actually there and help.

So not just all talk, but thank
you so much for number one,

what you guys do and we get all
excited every time we see you

guys come to the building
because we know that you're

there.

Like I said, you're there to
serve these kids, to love these

kids and to help them be
everything that they can be,

regardless of what happens
outside of the building, like it

really is about them.

And also thank you for hanging
out with us and doing this

podcast.

Maybe we'll do it again
sometime.

What do you think?

Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: So we could talk
about.

You know what we do all night.

Speaker 3: That's what I was
getting ready to say they, you

know what we do.

All that's what I was getting
ready to say.

They're like us.

We can talk about our jobs and
y'all can talk about your jobs,

I'm sure.

And we, yeah, we do the same.

We do the same thing.

We come home and say, okay, so
let's go sit out back and maybe

we'll talk about what are we
doing this weekend.

Well, hey, do you know what
happened today?

Speaker 1: And yeah, so Usually
it goes more like man, I'm so

tired, yeah, me too.

Let's get home and we just
relax About the time our rear

end hits the seat.

We're talking about work, so,
but again, thank you guys, and

we'll talk to you some other
time.

Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for
having us Sure enough.