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In this episode of The Shrink Down, we discuss current trends in drug, alcohol, and tobacco use among kids, teens, and young adults. We explore how societal norms have shifted—especially with the legalization of marijuana and the growing normalization of products like THC gummies. We also talk about the importance of having open, honest conversations with children about substance use, helping them understand the risks and develop strong refusal skills. Finally, we highlight the alarming rise in overdose rates and the dangers of substances being laced with harmful chemicals, emphasizing the need to educate young people about these serious risks.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
Vanessa (00:01.066)
Welcome back to The Shrinkdown. Today's topic, current trends in drug, alcohol, and tobacco use. We're going to be talking about what are kids, teens, young adults doing today in comparison to what we saw. And actually, that goes along with our topic from last week, which was what we were seeing in high school when we were young adults. So we're talking about those current trends, how things have changed. But before we get into today's topic, let's do our four-minute faves. Well, Amina, do you want to start us off?
Wilhelmina (00:28.185)
Yeah, sure. So I'm going to talk about a show, shocking, departure for my norm. See, exactly, there you go. So this is Alien Earth. So it is on FX, Hulu FX, I don't know. Are they combined now? Like we watch it on Hulu, but it's an FX show, so I don't know. So it's part of the Alien.
Vanessa (00:35.506)
It's on trend with you.
Teri (00:36.626)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (00:37.421)
you
Teri (00:48.764)
Who knows?
Wilhelmina (00:56.619)
series or world, I guess you would say. And it is basically about a spacecraft which has a bunch of the aliens on it and other creatures. So there's like an addition. There's new aliens now, or creatures I should say, and it crashes into Earth. And then there's basically like cyborgs and whatever that are
trying to catch it and of course chaos and death and carnage ensues. So I do love all of the alien movies. I see them all. And this one is a pretty solid. I haven't loved all of the like newer ones that they've come out with the newer movies. So I almost saw this and I was like, I'm not even gonna bother.
Lauren (01:33.73)
chaos ensues.
Vanessa (01:37.578)
you
Wilhelmina (01:54.271)
then it started to get some buzz. So we decided to check it out. And it's solid. is solid. is sort of a different, the fact that Earth is actually a part of it is sort of And then in this concept of humanity and having new creatures and new storylines, other than just the same thing over and over again, is kind of interesting. if you like,
you like the alien stuff, you should definitely check it out. It's good, especially. Yes, Timothy Olyphant is in it. Timothy Olyphant, yeah.
Lauren (02:26.222)
the guy from Justified, right? What's his name? Oh, right, right, right. I heard his, he does, if you're interested in that show and him in particular, he does a really nice interview on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard. That just came out. So they were talking about it. This is not my genre, but yeah, he's adorable from Justified, that show. Yeah.
Vanessa (02:26.25)
high five.
Wilhelmina (02:40.46)
Okay, that's good to know.
Teri (02:40.912)
I skipped that one because I don't know who he is. Okay, but I'll listen to that one.
Wilhelmina (02:44.044)
You don't know who he is. You don't know who Timothy Olyphant is? my gosh. He's like one of my like, he's like one of my like top five. Yeah. Justified.
Teri (02:50.192)
I will, I will Google. I bet I know what I'll Google him. Don't worry. Don't, don't worry. Don't worry. I know who he is. I know who he is. I got it. Don't worry. Don't worry. I'm out of my, I'm living out of my cave.
Vanessa (02:51.422)
bet if you saw a picture of him, you would know.
Lauren (02:53.92)
You would know who he was. He's adorable. Yeah, same. Like I've not watched these shows, but his interview was great with Dax Willamina. Yeah.
Vanessa (02:56.18)
I mean, I don't watch anything and I knew who he is.
Wilhelmina (03:02.466)
Yes, okay. I'm like...
Vanessa (03:08.522)
Occasionally we do that.
Wilhelmina (03:09.038)
Do you guys remember the movie Go? Do you guys remember the movie Go with Katie Holmes? He was in that and
Teri (03:10.311)
Got it.
Yes, he was in that. He's got kind of an annoying, Mischievious. No, not annoying. Maybe annoying is not the right word. He looks like he's a troublemaker type of look. Right? Just like mischievous. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (03:18.926)
Some say annoying, others say hot.
Vanessa (03:22.132)
Hahaha
Wilhelmina (03:27.886)
Absolutely, he has a little bit of that little...
Lauren (03:29.292)
He's like the bad guy.
Vanessa (03:31.652)
Mm. That's funny.
Wilhelmina (03:32.876)
Although he's often not the bad guy. He's usually, he was a little bit in go. He was a little bit of a, but he's now like after justified where he played like, yeah, yeah, he is cute.
Lauren (03:34.518)
Not. No, he's the good guy. Yeah.
Teri (03:36.208)
It's the eyebrows.
Teri (03:43.604)
yeah, he's cute. Not, he's, you see, he's cuter younger.
Wilhelmina (03:47.746)
He's, you know, I think he's aged very well.
Teri (03:50.4)
okay. he's 57. Yeah, he looks good for 57. Okay, carry on.
Lauren (03:53.58)
He's married to his high school sweetheart.
Wilhelmina (03:54.487)
Not so much in Alien Earth. He looks like an albino and that he's like very like, cause he's like part cyborg, whatever. But I think he's a man that has aged quite well. Yeah.
Teri (03:56.454)
Yeah. okay.
Wilhelmina (04:08.878)
Yeah, Terry, what about you?
Teri (04:11.992)
Mine is the new line of Champion stuff at Target. So I was, and I know our last episode was focused on 90s nostalgia, and I loved Champion as a brand when I was in high school. I found a picture of myself during the day on my 16th birthday, and I was wearing a Champion t-shirt back in 1997. And they have come back at Target. They have kids, men's, women's.
Lauren (04:17.019)
I've seen it.
Wilhelmina (04:17.582)
Mm.
Vanessa (04:23.146)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (04:40.358)
very reasonably priced because it's Target. I have two pairs of sweatshirt shorts that sort of have cut off hems that are just to wear around the house, know, everyday shorts. They've, everyone who knows me knows that I often leave the house in my house clothing as people who see me at school pick up, can attest to. And so I often just continue on wearing them, but super comfy, really cute, very, you know, casual little t-shirts and shorts and sweatpants and sweatshirts, jackets. And then the kid stuff looks.
Lauren (04:46.146)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (04:54.217)
You
Wilhelmina (04:54.478)
You
Teri (05:10.158)
super cute. there's little girl stuff where it's little skirts with biker shorts attached to underneath and little crop top champion like the little girl stuff in particular looks really cute. So champion at Target, don't know how long it'll last, but just in terms of it being there, but it's it's it's cute stuff.
Vanessa (05:16.329)
How cute.
Wilhelmina (05:30.606)
I think Maddie actually grabbed a pair of sweatpants from Target, like the champion, like they're like very big, but that's, I guess, the style. Like they're leggy.
Teri (05:34.288)
Okay, yeah, they're good.
Teri (05:40.476)
So I tried on the sweatpants or sometimes they make that real thick. It's a real thick material and I like it a little thin, even then the waistband's really thick and the whatever. So, but the shorts I really liked and the t-shirts and then the kid stuff. yeah. Yes.
Wilhelmina (05:46.71)
It's very thick. Yep.
Vanessa (05:55.115)
I love when they do collaborations, like not just Target and other, I mean, those are always, those are usually good too, but just when two different brands collaborate, stuff's always cute.
Lauren (05:57.315)
Yeah.
Teri (06:01.478)
Yes. Yeah, crossover. Yeah. How about you, Vanessa?
Lauren (06:04.152)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Vanessa (06:07.412)
So I wasn't sure what to share. And then I just so happened to be looking through our Instagram page and just kind of scrolling through the reels and realized that I've worn this same outfit multiple times. So was like, I should share that outfit because I wear it a lot and I really love it. So it's the free people hotshot crossover set. So it comes as a set and I'm gonna show it to you because then you're be like, yeah, you have worn this. It's this shirt. So it comes with matching.
Lauren (06:33.742)
Okay.
Vanessa (06:37.396)
joggers. So these joggers and it comes in like a million colors. These are the joggers. So comes as a set. Super, super comfortable, which is why I wear it all the time. And I love a good set because I don't have to think about what I'm wearing. So if you look at it online, like if you go to free people, the girls are wearing them like, I don't know, maybe three sizes too big. So they're like hanging really low and then the top is like shorter. So
Teri (06:49.958)
I love a good set.
Vanessa (07:05.674)
It looks more like a crop top, but I wear it as like a more of like a high rise So there's only like a very teeny amount of space between where the shirt stops on my pants stop So and that's how the influencer who I first saw wearing it. She wears it too. She's a mom So depending on how you wear it, can look very different. So just want to note that but for free people I think it's like really reasonably priced. It's $98, but it's for the set so you get the pants and the top
And it literally comes in a bajillion colors. The material is very soft, very comfortable. I've worn it in the summer with just like flip-flops. Also worn it in the fall with sneakers and maybe like a cardigan or a jean jacket. So I think it's really versatile as far as how, you know, the seasons if you want to wear it. I actually have it, I actually bought it in like a tan color first and then loved it so much and bought it in the maroon. And I think I'm going to buy it again, partially because...
I ruined the first pair of pants. Sad, sad, I got something on it and then I went to spray it with like a stain remover and it took the, like the, So that was very sad. So now it's become my, when I go get my hair done color So now when I get my hair done, I wear the same, that same outfit every time. So I'm like, well, if they drop hair dye or bleach or something on my pants, I won't care. So I think I'm going to get another color, but that's a really good set. I think it's good quality material.
Wilhelmina (08:09.256)
no.
Teri (08:09.906)
Teri (08:15.25)
Mmm.
Vanessa (08:27.882)
Think it's a good price since you get this app.
Wilhelmina (08:28.438)
And can you wash and dry it or is it like hang dry?
Vanessa (08:32.744)
Yeah, so I initially was washing and hang drying, but that's because I hang dry most of my, I feel like everything shrinks. I don't trust labels. But I have since washed it and dried it a couple times, and it's on low, and it's been fine. So you can. And I think the instructions say dry on low. So I have. But I'm usually a hang it person, because I just don't trust that it won't shrink, whatever it is.
Wilhelmina (08:50.722)
Okay.
Wilhelmina (08:58.84)
I usually just do it with my like workout stuff and then anything that would say don't dry but anything that says dry I put it in the dryer because
Vanessa (09:06.056)
Yeah, it says dry and I have. But I dry everything on low or medium lows. I never dry anything on it. So I don't know if you were going to do that. I don't know. Maybe it could shrink. But it hasn't shrunk and still looks good. So that's my share. Lauren, how about you?
Wilhelmina (09:17.889)
Awesome.
Lauren (09:22.694)
So I'm sharing the gosh, guess they're disposable makeup towels to like dry your face off after you've washed your face. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? So the ones I have are from Amazon. They're called the Clean Skin Club. And the idea is, that like I personally, so when I wash my face, like even if I do like a double cleanse, then I usually use like a towel or something, right? And then I still have
Vanessa (09:49.842)
always.
Lauren (09:52.365)
like stuff on my towels and I have a lot of white towels and whatever. These are disposable and they're biodegradable apparently, I don't know. But I will tell you I love them. They're called clean towels. And it's Clean Skin Club and they're just like a really nice like it's not a paper towel. It doesn't like fall apart in your hands. And you get all the rest of the makeup off.
after you have there's nothing on it. There's not like a makeup remover thing on it or anything like that. But it's like saving my hand towels in my bathroom. I mean, I've tried everything and I still feel like even with a really good double cleanse, there's still like a little bit of something. And so I've been loving these and you can do a subscription or whatever. And I actually think they're helping me to make like my face like healthier, cleaner because
Teri (10:29.298)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (10:48.458)
after I do that, then I'll do my toner or whatever you might do next. And there's so little left on my face at that point. It feels really good. So clean, clean skin club. Yes.
Teri (10:58.891)
Quick question.
Double cleanse. You wash your face and then you wash it again.
Lauren (11:03.714)
Yeah, I do. It's, I'm, no. Yeah, me neither. No. For us like sensitive acne prone people, yeah, it really does work.
Wilhelmina (11:05.826)
Yeah, I started doing it too. Yeah. No. I don't.
Teri (11:07.42)
Do you dry it in between?
Teri (11:12.112)
Is it just to really get everything off? So you wash it splash water and then you wash it again. Okay.
Teri (11:22.17)
Okay. Okay.
Lauren (11:22.882)
Yeah.
Vanessa (11:23.434)
Well, I'm like a...
Wilhelmina (11:23.596)
I do like an oil cleanser first that's a little gentler and then I'll use, I have like two different ones. Yeah. You can do the same thing. I have two different ones and that seems to help, but I...
Lauren (11:26.028)
I'll do the same thing. Okay.
Lauren (11:31.426)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (11:36.683)
I'm like a heavy makeup girl, I have also started doing the double, and I still, Lauren, no matter what I do, I'm like, what in the hell? Still get some on the towel. It's so annoying. And every time. So I use one of those balms, cleaning balms first, and then I use just a face that gets your makeup off, melts your makeup, and then I do a wash. But even then, it's still, I've got, I still, and yes, my towels are trash, and it's like you can't.
Lauren (11:43.82)
Yeah. Yeah. Every time. Yeah.
Teri (11:55.602)
Hmm.
Lauren (11:57.923)
Mm-hmm. I've seen those. Yeah.
Vanessa (12:06.484)
So I love that. That's a great one. I'm excited. I need to look at that because I can't, there is forever bronzer on everything.
Lauren (12:07.2)
Yeah, yeah, I really I well, I was just kind of looking for my faves and I was like, yeah, I'm like, I've done this three times in a row now, like I subscribed. So it's a good one.
Wilhelmina (12:23.768)
Well, and like that you said it was biodegradable because when you first said that I was like, no, the earth. I'm always like everything I'm like, what is, no, but if it does, then that feels, that does feel good because I'm often like, it never feels like I would wash my towels, but then like I go and my kids go and wash like their hands and then they use my face towel to dry their hands. And I'm like, did you really wash your hands or did you do like this?
Lauren (12:27.704)
Yeah, I know, I know.
Vanessa (12:32.574)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (12:33.146)
I know. Bye.
Lauren (12:38.402)
That's like a paper towel situation. Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (12:49.234)
For sure. So gross.
Lauren (12:49.272)
Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Vanessa (12:51.11)
and I've read about like germs on towels. Like you really should be using a towel once and washing it because the amount of gross germ, it's really bad. So I bet your skin looks like healthier if you're using a fresh. Yeah. And they don't wash their hands the right way, not just your children, any children, because I'm like.
Wilhelmina (12:54.222)
Quick wash. Right.
Teri (12:57.348)
I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (12:57.728)
It's really bad. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's getting much better, I think. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Teri (13:06.226)
Mmm.
Wilhelmina (13:08.334)
as opposed to my junkie towel that kids are like.
Lauren (13:11.054)
I know. Then we put our face right on it. no. Yeah.
Teri (13:11.975)
I know.
Vanessa (13:17.3)
There shouldn't be dirt on the hand Why is there dirt on the hand towel? If you wash your hands properly, there should not be dirt on the hand towels.
Wilhelmina (13:17.922)
Did you use soap? Did you use soap?
Teri (13:22.29)
They don't do anything. They don't brush their teeth right. They don't. Yeah, they don't do anything right, so.
Lauren (13:23.318)
It's just for drying. Yeah.
Yes, so this prevents that.
Wilhelmina (13:29.806)
I saw Griffin's hands the other day, they were so gross. And I was like, Griffin, did you wash your hands? He's like, I forgot yesterday. Yesterday, you forgot to wash your hands? Yesterday. I'm like, we need to have a hygiene conversation here. And using my hand towel.
Vanessa (13:35.924)
haha
Lauren (13:37.673)
Just all day.
Vanessa (13:38.385)
You
Lauren (13:41.641)
Mm-hmm. The whole day.
Vanessa (13:42.891)
and mine loves to just, can I just hand sanitize? No. No, like you can't just hand sanitize. I, hand sanitizer has its place in this world. Don't get me wrong. It does, but it does not replace a good hand wash. Sorry.
Lauren (13:50.923)
COVID did us no favors with that, I know.
Teri (13:51.346)
It's the COVID kids.
Teri (13:55.793)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (13:59.991)
Absolutely. But it is not a substitution. No.
Lauren (14:00.206)
Yes.
Teri (14:01.98)
Yeah. Yeah, you're just smearing around the dirt on your hands with a gel. So stupid.
Lauren (14:04.258)
No.
Vanessa (14:12.222)
Exactly. Well, let's talk about drugs, ladies. Let's talk. Shifting gears, drugs, alcohol, tobacco use. See, these are things we're going to be talking to our children about, if not already, soon, instead of hand washing, teeth brushing, and all the hygiene things.
Wilhelmina (14:13.326)
my god.
Teri (14:14.402)
Okay. Let's talk drugs.
Lauren (14:16.974)
Shifting gears.
Lauren (14:27.821)
Yeah.
Vanessa (14:35.636)
All right, who wants to start? Thoughts. What are we seeing?
Teri (14:39.282)
So I was thinking we could talk about two different arms when it comes to substances. is the recreational, substances play a pervasive role in our society, right? It's how people celebrate certain things. It's a cause of a lot of trauma for children on the other end of the spectrum in terms of parent usage. It's substances are one of those things where
Wilhelmina (14:54.328)
Yes.
Lauren (14:54.432)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (15:08.37)
they're not a required part of society, right? Like you need to eat to live, you need sleep, you need water, et cetera. You don't need substances. However, many people use them. So I think there's two arms. I think there's an arm of recreational use, enjoying happy hour with your family or your neighbors, and people dabbling in edibles recreationally, and you know, the role alcohol plays in our society, which I know we touched on last season. And then I think there's a whole separate arm is what our current trends in
Vanessa (15:31.402)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (15:36.176)
illicit substance use and addiction and that what is sort of trends among teens and young people. What are we seeing in our society, at least in our country in terms of drug usage and how that has that landscape has changed over time. And those of us having grown up under the Just Say No abstinence movement when it comes to substances. In recent years, we have seen the legalization of marijuana, which I think our teenage selves never would have.
predicted that you could walk into a dispensary and have a, you know, a almost high level intellectual conversation about THC content and ratios and CBD and all these things that dispensaries.
Wilhelmina (16:05.718)
never would have known.
Vanessa (16:06.024)
Nope.
Vanessa (16:17.95)
Or just like walking around the street and like smelling, like there's lots of times walking around just down in public and you're like, someone's smoking. Right.
Teri (16:20.891)
Yes!
Wilhelmina (16:22.168)
Yes.
Teri (16:24.914)
And they're allowed to and they're allowed to and so and yes.
Wilhelmina (16:27.926)
or going to bars now and they're selling THC drinks just like they're selling beer, water, THC drinks. It's something never would.
Teri (16:34.896)
Right, like THC drinks are on the menu. So I think I think of it as two arms of sort of the recreational use versus problematic use. So I don't know which we want to maybe start with.
Wilhelmina (16:45.368)
Yes.
Vanessa (16:48.286)
Yeah, mean, I think recreational is a good, because like you said, I think that's become, some of that has become very normalized in society and it's very different than it was, you know, in the nineties, which, you know, we talked about on our last, you know, podcast, you know, the nineties when we were in middle school and high school is very different. I mentioned last time that, you I was into like raves and all that. And so I think depending on kind of what you were into,
Teri (16:55.942)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (17:16.218)
in high school and college kind of shifts like your experience a bit too of kind of what was going on then. And you know, what we see now as adults too. So it's funny to me, I know like the kids that I hung out with were all the like alternative kids and the hippie kids and the skater kids and the raver kids and everyone was smoking weed, smoking cigarettes. There was, you know, more than just that I'll say like,
Teri (17:37.564)
Same, yeah.
Vanessa (17:45.099)
There was a lot of illicit substances. Coke was a big one amongst the high schoolers. Strooms, oh my gosh, yes. And then something that I don't even know if kids even, I mean, I don't know what they're calling it these days, but ecstasy, roles, Molly, whatever you wanna call it was also really big in the crowd that I was hanging with in high school. And it's funny seeing, I don't know.
Teri (17:49.414)
Feel like shroom's an LSD and acid. Yeah, yeah.
Wilhelmina (17:52.302)
Yeah.
Teri (18:02.45)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (18:11.83)
Is Molly still a thing? Like, I feel like I have not heard that. Okay.
Teri (18:14.034)
Not as much as it was about five, 10 years ago. Yeah, not as much as it was from what I'm hearing, at least in my practice.
Vanessa (18:17.268)
Yeah. I also.
Vanessa (18:22.59)
Yeah, and I even think even just having been in that kind of circle of things, just by the time I got to college, it was something that was much harder to get at that. You so think it's kind of phased like a lot of things have kind of phased over times. People would say like, you can't get it like you used to get, know, sort of thing by then. So I think it's kind of changed over time. But it's so fascinating, you know, being an adult now and knowing other adults who, you know, enjoy edibles as just part of their
Teri (18:33.765)
Yeah.
Vanessa (18:51.6)
social routine, right? And it's interesting how then drinking has kind of, I think, gone down the use. I mean, it has, I mean, we know the statistics, but even just in kind of the circles, you know, I can think of like, you know, my friends, various friends circles, I feel like there's less of that going on. And then you see more of other things going on. So just interesting, going through those different phases of life and how things have kind of trend, the trends that have kind of changed over time.
Wilhelmina (19:19.182)
So I, earlier this year when I was in Grand Mary, Minnesota, I went into, I want to say like a liquor store, that's actually what it was. It was not that it was, called it a bottle store, but basically the whole store was like NA stuff. So you could get like NA mixers, NA wine, things like that. Yes, sorry. Yeah. And also had THC, gummies, drinks, things like that. So I was talking to the owner.
and she was saying that they've been around for like two years now and are hugely popular. And so then we were just talking a little bit about that and the reduced use of alcohol and drinking. And then she was talking about her kiddos who are, think, in their 20s. And she said that like so many of the kids don't drink anymore, but they all would prefer to just do like gummy or smoke pot or
actually not smoke as much but like drink it or take a gummy versus drinking now, which I thought was really interesting and does sort of mirror what I see I know in my practice, which is less drinking. And Terry, I think you've talked about that too. Not that it's not at all, but it's just less than I feel like what we grow up with in our youth.
Teri (20:32.924)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Teri (20:39.929)
it's yeah.
Vanessa (20:40.99)
And I think that drink, even the kids who are drinking, I think that they're doing it differently than we did. That's right. The binge drinking is what's not happening. And so, I have young adults in my family and I've kind of chatted with various ones of them and it's like, yeah, I just buy like a big whatever and I just carry that around all night. And like thinking back of parties that I, I I honestly was not a big drinker in high school, but I know lots of kids who.
Wilhelmina (20:45.208)
Yes, not binge drinking.
Teri (20:45.671)
Yes.
Teri (21:03.036)
Yeah.
Vanessa (21:08.884)
who drank a lot in high school. And that was not what you did. You didn't walk around with one beer all night and nurse that thing, right? What kids did was they drank a lot, like a lot, right? If you were drinking.
Wilhelmina (21:18.414)
You went out to party and drink and before you did that, you drank, you pre-drank before you drank. Yeah.
Teri (21:18.524)
Right.
Vanessa (21:22.708)
The pre-game. Yeah.
Teri (21:24.614)
You pre-gamed, right? And I think one overarching question when you think about the recreational arm usage that maybe we're consciously asking ourselves or young people are older, people our age even, are why do you reach for a substance? Whether it's a drink, whether it's an edible, whether it's whatever it is, fill in the blank, but really talking about those two is the main ones we're seeing at least, Among, you know, adults.
Wilhelmina (21:42.928)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Teri (21:54.13)
But like, why are you reaching for a substance? Does it feel necessary to celebrate? Is it to, you know, wind down after a long week at work or a hard day? Is it to enjoy the beautiful weather and you have an association with, you know, being outside in the fall around a fire and it's nice to have a drink and, you know, why are we stressed? Are we, you know, et cetera? Like, why are we reaching for the substance, whatever it is?
Wilhelmina (22:18.99)
Well, I was listening to a podcast that it was talking about how you can't really separate like any sort of drug talk or drug conversation from a mental health conversation in terms of how that does get so tied together. As you mentioned, Terry, like coming home and relaxing and having a drink, right? And, I've had a stressful day. I'm going to have a drink. And that narrative
for at least around alcohol. And again, around our generation was absolutely hammered in of like, this is how you relax. This is how you socialize. This is how you celebrate. This is how you have a bad day. do it. Like it's like.
Teri (23:02.29)
Well, that was the takeaway that I pulled a couple of, yeah. No, go ahead. I was gonna say I pulled a couple of my nieces, yeah. No, sorry, we're delayed. A couple of my nieces, I said, what are your thoughts about current trends and what you're seeing in high school and college? And they talked about, which we can get to in a minute, like cocaine and other things and vaping and carts and weed usage, edibles, et cetera.
Lauren (23:02.968)
but that's happening now.
Go ahead. Well, I was going to say that's happening. sorry.
Lauren (23:14.699)
I know.
Wilhelmina (23:14.99)
You
Vanessa (23:25.642)
that's not.
Teri (23:29.094)
But my one niece said, I think a real important conversation is growing up with adults drinking around kids. And I want to talk about what that's been like for kids and teens and what we saw growing up and what we thought about that and what that was like for us. you know, that she's like, I think that's an important part of the conversation, which I thought was interesting.
Wilhelmina (23:35.607)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (23:36.33)
Hmm.
Wilhelmina (23:39.15)
Mmm.
Vanessa (23:49.502)
That is interesting.
Lauren (23:49.519)
But you know, it's so interesting, which I was going to add to it is what you were just saying, Wilhelmina, is that that was like built into the narrative of culture. I was listening to a podcast this morning and there was an ad break and the ad was for Edibles. The podcast host was promoting a company and she used those exact words.
Wilhelmina (23:49.667)
Yeah, is.
Vanessa (24:08.522)
So fascinating.
Lauren (24:15.116)
Like whether you're stressed or you're having a hard time sleeping, or you just want to relax after a long day. And I was like, so we have rebranded things to such an extent now that that's the narrative and that's a problem. I, know, it's. So normalizing that. now the adolescents, this is all I hear. And by the way, I still have in my practice, plenty of adolescents that are interested or young adults interested in experimenting with alcohol, but
Vanessa (24:25.162)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (24:29.582)
Absolutely.
Vanessa (24:44.106)
yeah, it's not gone away.
Teri (24:44.185)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, sure.
Lauren (24:44.652)
The whole idea that gummies and THC and all of that is somehow safer or better or whatever. Like the marketing has like really made it feel like it's like people are thinking it's almost like healthy. It's still a substance that's altering your, your normal state. and I was shocked by this ad because it was on my mind, cause we were going to be talking about it. And I was like, Whoa, that like, if you didn't
Vanessa (24:52.552)
Right, better.
Teri (25:00.346)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (25:00.938)
Yeah. I mean, we.
Teri (25:03.857)
Yes.
Lauren (25:12.224)
listen to this in context, you'd have no idea what this woman was talking about. And she was like promoting this company and very much normalizing it, which again now gets into the culture and the ears of our young kids. And in kind of preparing to talk about this, the adolescent brain is the one that's the most at risk, that in pregnant women, the idea that you can use things like gummies for nausea or insomnia or whatever.
it's impacting pregnant women in that early, early first stage before they even know they're pregnant or the first stages of, what's word I'm looking for? Conception? Not conception. Like the first stage of pregnancy, it's altering brain development. Thank you. It's altering fetal development. And then during the adolescent stage, the instances of psychosis have gone up.
Teri (25:55.524)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (25:59.851)
fetal development.
Teri (26:02.919)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (26:10.886)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Lauren (26:11.448)
Fivefold, fivefold because these kids are thinking this is like just so safe and it's natural and all of these, it's the way marketing has rebranded what this is. And so there's like legalization without nuance, which is a problem. And so all of these adolescents and young adults, they're drinking less, but they're, they're literally putting themselves at like significant risk for psychosis.
Wilhelmina (26:11.854)
Wow.
Vanessa (26:12.371)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (26:28.37)
Right.
Lauren (26:39.394)
And like, how scary is that?
Teri (26:39.522)
And a lot of that research is coming out of Colorado because they had that state, yes, had legalized it first. the main takeaway, and we can get to some of this, is how to talk to teens and even kids about drugs in general, is because a lot of what we'll get to is also prescription use, right? And so, are people taking misuse of prescription drugs, I think, for...
Lauren (26:44.796)
Mm-hmm, and Ontario, it said.
Yes.
Lauren (26:54.542)
Ugh.
Wilhelmina (27:00.578)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (27:09.202)
the term we can probably associate with it, is the teenage developing brain should really not interact with THC in any way, shape or form. Any developing brain should not interact with non-prescribed pills or powders, like at all, right? Like no pills, no powders is sort of the main message, but really THC in the developing brain with all the research coming out, like they don't mix. True for alcohol in the developing brain, true for most substances in the developing brain.
Lauren (27:19.703)
No.
Lauren (27:26.062)
Right?
Vanessa (27:28.042)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (27:38.182)
but THC and the developing brain should not mix.
Wilhelmina (27:38.21)
but definitely THC.
Lauren (27:38.263)
Right.
Lauren (27:42.476)
And so I don't love this.
Vanessa (27:42.73)
was gonna go back to wood.
Wilhelmina (27:42.849)
And there's data that it can't be reversed. whatever changes, it's permanent. yeah, I think Lisa DeMore said this, that she actually thinks the legal age should be older than 21 because it should be not until that brain is fully, fully developed, because that's the only time it is safer then to use where you will not be at risk to
Teri (27:47.356)
Yes. Yes.
Lauren (27:47.672)
Correct.
Teri (27:54.61)
scary.
Lauren (27:59.651)
Yeah. Brain still moving.
Vanessa (28:03.164)
It's still developing.
Lauren (28:09.154)
Oof.
Teri (28:10.57)
Right. And you can make a well-informed decision when you're 25 with a fully maturated brain to decide here are the risks and benefits of THC. Here's the risks and benefits of drinking. Here's the, you know, it's fill in the blank.
Wilhelmina (28:12.257)
impact.
Vanessa (28:23.402)
Like, well, you going back to what you were saying, Lauren, I think we saw this trend of like, this is, you know, with cigarettes and vaping, right? So, well, first of all, you know, cigarettes are legal and, you know, we know, I think people know more now that it causes cancer. So even though it's legal, it causes cancer. Like it causes lung cancer, not just to the people who are consuming the cigarettes, but to those around you too. And we know that now, right? And it's legal. And...
Lauren (28:30.04)
Yes. Yes.
Lauren (28:38.894)
How horrible. How horrible. Yep.
Teri (28:39.951)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (28:47.558)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (28:48.194)
Yep. Yeah.
Vanessa (28:51.176)
you know, people shifted to, well, let's vape. And now we know that that is, it's, it's worth it is so bad for you. So great. think, you know, people got on the bandwagon with the vape and now, you know, now we know more. So it's, yeah, there is this, it seems to go in phases where we say something's okay. We realize that it's not.
Wilhelmina (28:54.382)
It's like worse on the lungs.
Lauren (28:54.933)
Ugh.
Cardiovascular, yes, so bad.
Vanessa (29:14.802)
And then we move on to the next thing that then we realize at some point is, wait, this could even be potentially worse than that. But yeah, I think that we're seeing these trends and it's concerning because all of these things, cigarettes, alcohol, know, they're all foreign substances that you're putting into your body that you don't actually need. Now I will say, with the exception of there is medical marijuana. So I do think that there is a place for that. So aside from that,
Lauren (29:24.547)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (29:38.061)
Yes.
Teri (29:41.063)
Yes.
And there is some research with oncology cancer patients and what that provides for stimulating appetite and et cetera. Yeah.
Vanessa (29:43.935)
you know, absolutely, absolutely. that, yes. So I do think it has its place in this world, but I think a lot of these things don't necessarily. And so you need to be really mindful about what you're putting in your body and when you're putting it in your body, like we were just saying.
Wilhelmina (29:46.178)
Mm-hmm, 100%.
Lauren (29:47.662)
worth.
Wilhelmina (30:00.684)
Well, culture. We've normalized. Yes. Yes.
Lauren (30:00.953)
Yeah, we have to be careful about how we're branding it. Yes, or normalizing it. Exactly. It's like, and the vulnerable ones are the young people. We did the same thing with the vapes of like the pretty colors and they were low in the stores. Remember there was that whole report about how they were, you know, put right there and they looked like, I don't know, AirPods or whatever they look, I don't even know what they looked like. They looked adorable, right? And so then kids were asking their parents about them and like things like that. It's like, we do the same thing.
Vanessa (30:04.424)
you know.
Teri (30:04.626)
Right. Right.
Teri (30:16.092)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (30:21.574)
Right. They look cute. Mm hmm.
Vanessa (30:23.658)
Portable.
Wilhelmina (30:23.886)
They look cute.
Lauren (30:30.582)
like market it in such a way that young people see all of this stuff on social media and think, well, it's from the ground. It's natural. It's good. And then they're the vulnerable ones. And of course, aren't reading this research on promoting psychosis in these poor developing brains. They're not thinking that because their brains aren't fully formed.
Teri (30:38.994)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (30:55.36)
So it's scary to think that we're normalizing it in such a way that these young adults think, well, I'm not drinking as much and this is better somehow. It's like, no, your brain is still so vulnerable to the effects.
Teri (31:09.138)
Well, and I think with, so one thing that as we were, I was researching for this podcast topic is in general, drug usage, substance usage is down. It continues to go down just like a lot of risky behaviors like we've touched on. So in general, usage is down among young people, but overdoses, death by like death that caused death are significantly higher than they were in the eighties or nineties.
Lauren (31:20.696)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (31:31.928)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (31:32.183)
Ugh.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Teri (31:39.088)
So what we do have happening is while overall usage of certain substances is lower, those who are using substances are dabbling in certain things like coke laced with fentanyl, ketamine, other substances, that's so high enough that we have very high overdose rates. And oftentimes, it's their accidental sort of outlier one-time usage overdoses.
Vanessa (31:51.153)
That's a big one.
Lauren (31:51.725)
Ugh.
Wilhelmina (32:01.954)
Yes. Yes.
Teri (32:03.826)
there aren't warning signs because they decide to share a pill with a friend or try something and they think they're taking a Xanax and it's leased with fentanyl. overdoses are, mean, the stat I pulled up to throw some stats at you were in the 1980s on average, there were 6,000 overdoses per year due to drugs among teenagers. In 2023, there was 108,000 overdoses.
Lauren (32:09.272)
Bluff.
Vanessa (32:12.499)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (32:13.301)
my gosh.
Lauren (32:29.464)
Hmm.
Teri (32:30.162)
So while we were in the throes of the war on drugs and just say no campaign, there was on average 6,000 overdoses per year that caused death. And in 2023, we had 108,000. That's a huge leap in terms of mortality. That's all that's heroin, fentanyl, cocaine, any type of drug.
Lauren (32:43.628)
Are they for different, are.
Are there any particular ones that have increased significantly?
Vanessa (32:50.002)
Right.
Vanessa (32:55.636)
Well, fentanyl is one of the biggest perpetrators. So that wasn't around back then. yes, and that is one of the biggest causes of overdose, drug overdose, is fentanyl. So that's been a big player. I think contributing to those statistics is the popularity of that.
Lauren (32:57.334)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that wasn't back. That's the synthetic. Yeah.
Teri (32:58.192)
Yeah, in like the last five years.
Lauren (33:10.904)
That's awful.
Wilhelmina (33:14.22)
Well, and think, Terry, what you had said was that I think in the past you'd think, okay, these kids do drugs or these are this. But now we are in a culture where like normalize, we've normalized quick fixes all around. like this happens, take a pill, bad day, have a drink, whatever. Okay. So kids have grown up with this sort of like quick fixes thing. And so they go off to college and you may think, my kid's not.
Teri (33:24.219)
be signs.
Vanessa (33:24.7)
You
Lauren (33:29.996)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (33:43.583)
they don't party, they don't do this or they, you know, they maybe drink or, you know, smoke pot or whatever. I mean, we just spoke on that, but let's say that's just where you're at. Well, then they want to study for a test and someone's like, hey, I got an Adderall. Like you, I, you know, I have someone who can hook us up with some Adderall. Do you want to do that? You take an Adderall, it's laced with fentanyl and you're dead. And like, you're not that, that's, those are the things that are, yes. And it's terrifying, terrifying.
Teri (33:59.695)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (34:05.002)
Yeah.
Teri (34:07.807)
That's what's happening. Yes, that is what's happening.
Vanessa (34:09.578)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (34:11.918)
Ugh.
Teri (34:13.082)
And I will say one of my questions, and you might do this also, Lauren and Vanessa, since we all do evaluations. Anytime I evaluate a teenager or a high school student, especially if it's a potential ADHD evaluation, I will ask during my clinical interview, have you ever, if they're not currently prescribed an ADHD medication or a stimulant, have you ever tried one of your friends and have you found it to be helpful? I wanted the caveat being,
Lauren (34:34.818)
Never tried.
Wilhelmina (34:36.238)
Mmm.
Lauren (34:37.496)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (34:38.468)
everybody will find a stimulant helpful. It will help every single one of us focus, whether or not we have an ADHD profile or not. That's how the drugs are designed. Yes, exactly. And overwhelming majority, maybe not a hundred percent, but the overwhelming majority of the teenagers and young adults will say, yeah, I've tried my friends. It's really helpful. So it is pervasive on college campuses. It is pervasive among high schoolers. There is a lot of pill sharing and that's what makes this so scary.
Vanessa (34:41.342)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (34:42.08)
Everybody will. Yes. That's why coffee is so popular. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Teri (35:05.746)
is that you could be trying, like Wilhelmina was saying, you could try your friends, but it could be laced with it. What I came across, the reason this is happening is that substances used to be more plant-based. I don't know if you came, I was hearing this, it was to be more plant-based. In 2019 is about the year they pinpointed. So right before COVID, they started using more chemical-based materials when they would press it. So when they produce it and they press it and they make counterfeit prescription meds like Xanax, Ativan, et cetera,
Lauren (35:25.998)
Synthetic.
Teri (35:34.306)
they make counterfeit versions of it, gets pressed with fentanyl. Yes, and that is why. So that's why it's been very risky in the last five to six years for people to try a friend's Xanax or try a friend's Adderall.
Vanessa (35:37.948)
Mm-hmm, it's because it's cheap. It's very cheap.
Vanessa (35:48.779)
Well, and going back to not understanding, I don't feel now, I will have, especially like my older teens and young adults, the college students, they're not even coming in like, it's not like I'm like, hey, have you ever done this? And they're like, well, yeah. They're sharing it with me, like it's not a big deal. Like, yeah, I've tried my friends and it helps so much. It's not a big deal that I've used that.
Lauren (35:49.016)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (36:08.346)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (36:11.798)
It's just a thing. It's just.
Lauren (36:13.376)
Not only that, they don't even call it a substance. I'll ask the question, like, do you use any substances? And they'll be like, no. And then we're talking about sleep and they'll be like, well, I have gummies that I use to go to sleep. And I'm like, well, okay. They just don't even view it as, it's like so normalized. Yeah.
Vanessa (36:16.682)
No, no, that's like, no.
Teri (36:16.75)
I know. I know.
Teri (36:26.053)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (36:32.379)
Right. Yeah.
Yeah. And again, ADHD medications are extremely helpful. The concern here isn't that if you need them to use them. That's not the concern here. The concern is getting pills from a friend of a friend is the concern because you don't know that that's truly Adderall or whatever ADHD medication your friend's friend is telling you it is. That's the concern is that you don't know what this is cut with. You have no idea where this came from. And that is what's really concerning.
Wilhelmina (36:36.162)
Well, and.
Teri (36:40.209)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (36:41.025)
Absolutely.
Lauren (36:45.326)
Absolutely.
Teri (36:48.668)
Yes.
Teri (36:54.342)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (37:04.7)
not medicating ADHD with ADHD meds. So just to be clear.
Teri (37:06.352)
Yes. Yes, absolutely.
Lauren (37:08.046)
Do you know when we went to my son Jack's 10 year old well check this summer? Okay. So he turned 10 in May, went to his well check and the nurse practitioner said, what would you do if you were at somebody's house and they gave you some gummies that were out of the original package? And he was like looking at me and I knew exactly what she was doing. I mean, he totally failed because we've not had that conversation. And she, I mean, she did such a
Teri (37:30.672)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (37:35.427)
beautiful job of explaining to him that there are gummies and if they're not in the, but I was like so sad that she had to have that conversation with him because it's been so normalized. I know we're talking about adolescents and young adults, but it is so normalized now for parents to have them lying around that my 10 year old has to know.
Teri (37:43.867)
I know.
Lauren (37:57.111)
he can't have any gummy bears unless he sees the original packaging or he can't have fruit snacks unless he sees the original packaging if he's at a friend's house. I was like, it like, I don't, that one blew me away. She's like, you should be having this conversation with them. I'm like, yep, total fail.
Teri (38:16.219)
Well, they say that we went, we've, what happened to all of us children of the Just Say No campaign is we've abandoned drug talks. We have gone from Just Say No to Just Say Nothing.
Lauren (38:25.496)
I, my gosh. I mean, I felt like, we hadn't gone over that question. I mean, we did the seatbelt question. Like we passed all the other ones.
Wilhelmina (38:26.365)
Yes, yes, yes.
Teri (38:32.73)
Right. Right. And it's the new because and I think the advice that I think parents, all of us included should take is that when we talk to our kids, we'll say this is new for all of us because when I was a kid, there wasn't gummies. And I can think of a time this was years ago. was during Covid. We took the boys to a playground. My husband and I were talking. One of our kids runs over and goes, we just found this pack of Sour Patch Kids on the bottom of the slide and we shared them. And
Wilhelmina (38:46.35)
Yep.
Teri (39:01.966)
I was like, boys, in my mind, I'm like, don't eat. And Dan immediately went to, are you kidding me? Let me bring the package over. How do know what those were? Like my husband right away was like, absolutely not. What if those, and he's like, Terry, those could have been like edibles. Those could have been THC gummies. Those could have been anything. So we had this huge, which we need to revisit because they were very little. They were like three and five at the time. Like you don't eat random candy, playground candy. Like that's a no go. And when I was a teenager, we used to joke, don't smoke street.
Lauren (39:09.806)
Yeah.
Lauren (39:16.502)
Anything, Yeah.
Vanessa (39:17.918)
Yeah.
Lauren (39:29.07)
That's a definite no.
Wilhelmina (39:30.03)
Sorry. Do not eat Fanded Playground Candy.
Teri (39:31.686)
Yeah, don't eat random playground candy. And the equivalent is we used to joke is that when I was in high school, we would joke never smoke street weed. Like if you find weed in a baggie on the street, who knows what it's laced with? Don't smoke street weed. And so I'm like, okay.
Wilhelmina (39:39.637)
Mm, mm-hmm.
Vanessa (39:43.403)
mean, when I was partying in high school, we were always like, don't buy it from people you don't know because you just don't know. Even back then in the 90s, I was like, you don't know what they're like cutting their stuff with. So you just don't know. So you would always like make sure it's somebody you know, because you just, yeah, so be safe, yeah.
Teri (39:47.59)
Yes, you just don't know.
Teri (39:59.568)
be safe.
Wilhelmina (40:01.102)
Well, it's interesting that you said that Lauren about having the conversation because I have had that conversation with Maddie. And when I had it, which I feel like was maybe like a year or two ago, I don't remember quite what inspired it, except I think she asked a question about it. And I was like, my gosh, is this, am I like a horrible parent? Cause we're like talking about gummies and like all of that. Like I felt a little like weird.
And so it's interesting that you say that, because I was like, good, we've already had the gummy talk. I didn't even know that was like a thing.
Lauren (40:36.424)
it really blew me away. And he had questions when we left the doctor's office. So I was so glad that she brought it up. But let me tell you, like my jaw was on the floor. was like, I didn't realize we had to talk about, like, add it to the list of things that perhaps we went a little overboard with the rebranding of THC and like, because now it's like, it's just rampant in homes.
Vanessa (40:37.802)
think you should have that.
Wilhelmina (40:41.506)
Yes? Yeah.
Teri (40:42.395)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (40:59.548)
Right.
Well, and then, I mean...
Well, at another conversation I've had with the boys is when you are at friends houses, you never take a pill. If you have a headache like Tylenol, Motrin, et cetera, if you have a headache, if you have a stomach ache, have the parents call me. I will come get you. You don't need to be taking because what if, God forbid, the parent reaches for something, they give them something else. You don't know what people keep in their homes. I don't want my kids going, I have a headache. Not right now, but maybe in a couple of years. Let me just go in the medicine cabinet while I'm going to pee and I'll just see what's in here.
Lauren (41:12.814)
Ugh.
Lauren (41:17.486)
Call me. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (41:25.47)
Mm. Right.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (41:34.758)
You don't want like you never ever ever take pills unless I am giving them to you. And it's stretched a little bit. I'm like, what if you're at a sleepover and your friend like if you have a headache, they can call me if it's someone I trust. But it needs to be in the forefront of their awareness that you don't just take pills from people in general, because kids need to learn refusal skills. So part of it is the awareness and the education of what to be aware of. But they also have to know what to do if somebody says
Lauren (41:40.46)
you know where it came from.
Wilhelmina (41:43.33)
Yeah, I was like.
Lauren (41:44.334)
Hmm.
Lauren (41:59.481)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (42:04.462)
No big deal. Just take this. It'll get rid of your headache or no big deal. Like my mom pops the Xanax whenever she's really anxious. Like my mom has some right here. You know, we're 15. You're having a panic attack or whatever. Just take it. No big deal. So they need refusal skills. And my go to is blaming the parent. I have said I have told my kids this if they're not allowed to do something, always be like, my mom won't let me. And I am hoping. Yeah, my mom sucks. She's so strict. She's so strict.
Lauren (42:18.766)
I love that. I love that.
Lauren (42:29.784)
My mom sucks. yeah. Throw me under the bus. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (42:30.41)
Yeah.
Teri (42:33.786)
I said, always throw me under the bus. And right now it's translating on like playing Fortnite and like whatever other things I'm like, throw me under the bus. Like we're not doing it. Every family has different rules. No judgment. My mom won't let me. Yes. Every family has different rules. I'm hoping that. Yeah, that translates to I'm at a party. I'm going to I'm not comfortable. Like my mom will kill me if I do this. Like if I come home messed up, my mom will kill me.
Lauren (42:40.109)
Yeah.
Lauren (42:43.618)
My mom won't let me.
Vanessa (42:44.958)
That's my mantra. Every family has different rules.
Lauren (42:48.012)
Yep. No Roblox in my house. Yep.
Lauren (42:56.706)
I love that. I can't, yeah. Yep, I love that.
Wilhelmina (43:01.838)
And I think that is really good to be able to say like, yeah, use me. I think where it gets tricky is when you don't want to be the kid being like, my mom said I shouldn't when you're 15 or 16. Like who wants to be like, my mom said I can't. Like now, like my kids could do that, right? But you get into those teen years where like, I mean, yeah, your mom's not here. So I think that's where you...
Teri (43:19.664)
Right.
Vanessa (43:23.114)
Yeah, they're going to say, your mom's not here right now. They'll be savvy enough to say, your mom's not here right now.
Teri (43:25.232)
Well, right.
Right.
Wilhelmina (43:30.89)
maybe have like a code and you and this is where like texting. Owen sent me this video and it was it was a clip from a TV show. But it was really cute. So it had this like teen party and this dad came like storming in and he was like, you and he like clearly he's like looking for his daughter and he's like, I said you shouldn't be here. I told you not to go to this party. Get your yes. Yes. yeah.
Teri (43:32.326)
Yes, a texting code. Yeah.
Teri (43:55.91)
Like Uncle Buck, remember him coming through the party and Uncle Buck and like finds the teenager? Yeah.
Lauren (43:58.317)
Yes. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (44:00.055)
Yes, my God, I love that, I love a good book. And she gets all, she like looks all nervous and then he's like, you're coming with me. And he like grabs her and like, not grabs her, but like they walk upstairs and leave. And then you see like 10 minutes before and she basically called and was like, my God, there's a whole bunch of like people here. And like, I don't know, they're drinking. And her dad's like, I got it. And so he came in and he, and she was like so thankful that he was, but.
Teri (44:02.354)
Yes. Yeah.
Teri (44:10.78)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (44:16.718)
She texted. I love that.
Teri (44:18.93)
Hmm.
Wilhelmina (44:28.832)
He made it seem like he was the bad guy. Like he was like, yeah. And I was like, what a cool thing to show and highlight. And so they've talked about like have a code word, a text name, something that if your friends see it, like, so actually we talked about it with Maddie actually. And it was like, did you feed the cat? Maddie would text me, did you feed the cat? Don't forget to feed the cat. And so we have cats.
Teri (44:30.78)
Guess.
Lauren (44:30.988)
He was the bad guy.
Teri (44:35.591)
I love that.
Teri (44:51.09)
Mmm.
Lauren (44:51.694)
Mmm
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (44:57.324)
obviously. And so that would be something where like, if she ever texts me that we're just going to come pick her up. And like, and we'll be like, Hey, you need to come home or do you need us to come pick you get you. But it would be something that she doesn't if someone saw it, they don't have, they're not thinking anything about it. But for us, it is a code that's something.
Teri (45:02.374)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (45:02.531)
Yeah.
Vanessa (45:10.794)
they wouldn't know, yeah.
Teri (45:13.97)
And part of that code, part of the code that I've talked through with families in therapy is you text to the code and then the parent calls you and says, hey, you've got to come home right now. We're having a situation. So then the kid can say, hey, my mom, like I got to go. getting, I'm going to get picked up in like 10 minutes. I got to go. So it's sort of this, but you need to role play and talk through that with your kids.
Vanessa (45:14.801)
Yeah.
Lauren (45:21.592)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (45:27.142)
my God, I gotta go.
Lauren (45:29.518)
Yep. The other thing, yep. Definite role play. The other thing that I think can, yep. I have encouraged, and this is where activities, now we've talked before about the over scheduling and the craziness in youth sports, but having an activity or a sport can be a real nice preventative measure.
Wilhelmina (45:30.444)
Yep. Yep.
Wilhelmina (45:34.587)
Yes, you can't just talk about it. You actually practice.
Teri (45:37.03)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (45:37.3)
Like if someone said this to you, what would you do?
Teri (45:40.018)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (45:52.011)
for sure. Got a game in the morning.
Lauren (45:53.833)
I have had kids that are athletes that I've worked with that have set, and I will say, or say you, if there's people from your team there, say, I've got a training session. They don't know what the training, it could be you going and doing a workout on Peloton. It doesn't matter. It's like, I have training in the morning. My mom signed me up for a training session or whatever. I can't, I gotta go. Or whatever activity you're involved in, or even, I mean, it's cool to be smart. Like,
Teri (46:03.629)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (46:14.439)
I like that.
Teri (46:18.054)
I got tutoring, right? Mm-hmm.
Lauren (46:19.18)
I've got SAT tutoring or whatever. So early, I don't know why my mom scheduled 8 a.m., but like, gotta be up. And what I have heard from adolescents that have done this is nobody questions them because there is something, everyone's over scheduled, but also there's something very cool to being successful in different areas like a sport or academics or whatever. There is something very cool about that.
Teri (46:33.338)
everyone's over scheduled. They're like, okay.
Vanessa (46:35.274)
you
Lauren (46:45.55)
And so they don't get questioned when they say that. So we have role played. I think that's a really good piece of advice. We have practiced doing that before as well. If you don't feel like you want to invoke your parents more of a like, I've got an early game, I've got an early training session, whatever it is, as just a way to say like, I'm out.
Teri (47:03.954)
I love that.
Vanessa (47:05.13)
I just want, I wanted to kind of circle back and, we talked a little bit earlier about how, you know, we know adults who use gummies and all that stuff. And I just wanted to make sure that we're clear that what we're saying that is particular to young adults and those whose brains are still developing. And I feel that if you're a grown adult and you choose to do that, then carry on, carry on.
Teri (47:21.756)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (47:28.002)
Mm hmm. Just keep them out of the out of touch of children that are over at your house, please. For my own sense of safety.
Teri (47:28.06)
Carry on.
Teri (47:31.984)
Yes. Carry on. Yes.
Vanessa (47:32.746)
Right, yeah, think our main concern is really, yes, I think the main concern is that we're trying to convey here is that the developing brain really is the one that needs to have the most caution when it comes to these things, you know, particularly, you know, again, the young adults. So, yeah.
Lauren (47:40.514)
the developing brain.
Teri (47:51.92)
And what they're dabbling in sometimes could end up being fatal if they just want to try something. Yeah.
Vanessa (47:56.382)
Yeah,
Lauren (47:56.686)
They just don't know.
Wilhelmina (47:58.489)
Well, and Lisa D'Amour said one of the things she said when the podcast I listened to, the kid will be like, but you do this or you did this or, you and you're like, yeah, dad and I do take gummies or whatever, but we're adults, we're middle-aged. And guess what? We're doing it at home, like from the safety of our home. And we're not out driving. We're not out, you know, like,
It's a very different experience than when you are out taking something from someone you don't know, then driving someone else could be driving it is and my brain is old. Like it's fully formed. I like so it's a totally different thing than you doing it with your brain. And in the circumstances with which you'll be doing this versus what middle aged me is doing or whatever.
Vanessa (48:32.618)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (48:34.107)
driving a car, right?
Lauren (48:41.006)
Fully formed.
Teri (48:52.871)
Mm-hmm.
Little old me watching my show. Yes, yes, exactly. Exactly.
Vanessa (48:56.522)
That's a point. Folding my laundry.
Wilhelmina (48:58.316)
Yes, yes. Exactly.
Wilhelmina (49:04.942)
One gummy to make the time go by.
Teri (49:07.346)
Get some chores done. Yep.
Vanessa (49:09.29)
Well, good talk, ladies. All right, thank you so much for joining us today. Please join us next time on The Shrinkdown.
Wilhelmina (49:14.057)
my gosh.