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Join Talisman, an award-winning, full-service agency igniting memorable partnerships & collaborations across sports, entertainment & web3 where they host industry leaders to unapologetically deconstruct the business of sports.
Welcome to another episode of the Playbook Podcast powered by Talisman, where we talk all things business in the world of sports and entertainment. I'm your host, Charlie Evans, and I'm thrilled to be joined today by a close friend of the Talisman family and CEO of Spinifex, mister Ben Cason. Ben, it's great to have you with us. Thanks for making time available. I'm sure the schedule is is is as hectic as ever.
Charlie Evans:First things first, how are you? How's life? How's business?
Ben Casey:Yes. Very good. We're we're we're right in the throes of things at the moment. We just had the launch of Epic Universe down in in Florida, which is, you know, an interesting sidebar to the project we're talking about now. And also, coming to the end of the of the season, the regular season in the NBA.
Ben Casey:So exciting times for the Clippers as they sit on the on the threshold of getting into the playoffs. So
Charlie Evans:Exactly. We've got a fair bit to cover today. And, personally, I'm really excited to talk to you about the Halo at the Interwit Dome, a project you've obviously been right at the heart of. Before we dive into that, why don't you just kick things off by telling the listeners a little bit about yourself and Spin FX, and I'll hand I'll hand the floor over to you.
Ben Casey:Yeah. So I started Spin FX back in, you know, the early two thousands. And I was based in Australia, in Sydney. And, you know, it's quite rare for a company like us to be going continuously in this mode for twenty odd years. We moved to The U.
Ben Casey:S. In around 02/2008. And that really put us in proximity to all that L. A. Had to offer in terms of the entertainment industry and also automotive and obviously sports.
Ben Casey:And so we became quite renowned early for big, impressive projects. We were involved in the Beijing opening ceremony in 02/2008 and have actually had involvement in all the Olympic opening closing ceremonies between Sydney and Sochi. So that was kind of like our big stage stuff. But on the day to day here in LA and across the world, we engaged in a whole lot of work for for brands and for entertainment franchises and for sports franchises alike.
Charlie Evans:Amazing. And you guys have obviously been part of the Project Network for for a long time now as well. Obviously, we're kind of the the newcomer to the to the network, but really excited about working more closely with you guys over the coming weeks, months as well. So let's let's get into it. You and the Spinifex team have obviously been at the forefront of tech innovation in in sports recently, especially with the development of the Halo at the Clipper's new home, the the Intuit Dome, which is what we wanna talk about today.
Charlie Evans:Can you tell us a little bit about what the Halo is, what the original inspiration was, and and how the project really came to life?
Ben Casey:Yeah. So in essence, the Halo is a a screen inside the IntuitDome that's quite unprecedented in scale. It's a double sided seamless LED screen that's over an acre in size, over an acre of high definition screen. That's 233,000,000 pixels, which is only 10,000 pixels short of the sphere in Las Vegas. So it gives you an indication of the scale of it.
Ben Casey:And it was The inception of the halo really came about It was The Clippers have talked about it. It's one of those moments in a meeting where somebody pipes up and says, oh, we have this idea, but we're not actually sure whether it it will work. And we probably shouldn't show it. And obviously, that piqued everybody's attention. And before you know it, that was the selected design that was going forward.
Ben Casey:And I think it really kind of stood as a really visible indicator that this arena was gonna be different. It's it's it's well documented as being the most expensive arena ever built. It's got a lot of firsts, but I think the the halo really kind of gave it this kind of headline an expectation that we needed to fulfill. And as we got into it, it it really kind of forced this conversation about the relationship between sport and entertainment. And, you know, the ultimate question of, you know, are stadiums these days built for sport or are they built for entertainment?
Ben Casey:And I think for the owner of the Clippers who was leading this project, Steve Balmer, his answer was very much that this arena was built for sport. He's a massive basketball fan, and he really wanted this arena to be to deliver the ultimate fan experience, a live sport experience. And so, in the early stages of the project, there's quite a lot of tension existed. Every time the conversation would shift slightly towards entertainment, it it created a little fair bit of tension in the room. And ultimately, this tension forced a very nuanced conversation about the relationship between sport and entertainment, and how to bring an entertainment tool set to enhance the live sport experience.
Ben Casey:And I think the result is not just shiny, but it's something pretty new. You know, we've had the good fortune in being involved in a lot of what we call legacy projects, where ultra high net worth individual or a country really wants to leave their mark and create something new. And I think the authenticity of of Steve Ballmer's goal to create the best experience for fans is really what sets this project apart.
Charlie Evans:Yeah. I mean, man, I'm I'm really excited to get over and see it. I mean, just from the the imagery and and video that I've seen of it, it looks it it looks amazing, but to experience it in person must be must be something else. It's obvious obviously just not a a giant screen. Right?
Charlie Evans:They it's it's really transforming the experience for both fans and the players. From from an engineering standpoint and a and a design perspective, how difficult and challenging is it to bring something like this to life?
Ben Casey:Yeah. I think, you know, we joined the project at the at the moment. I think the client in the Clippers was starting to struggle with the the the complexities of magnitude. The sheer scale of this thing was delivering some challenges about how you create content for it, how you serve it, you know, how this becomes an elegant and updatable solution rather than something that's just kind of like a monster that has to be fed. And I think, as I talked about, the scale of it is sort of the only real precedent out there is the sphere.
Ben Casey:And I think it's been quite well documented how expensive and technically complex it is to generate content for that format. Mhmm. But we had the additional challenges of, you know, having an 80 game season. You know? These shows had to last, you know, two to two and a half hours.
Ben Casey:And, you know, they have to respond to differences in play. You know, there's there's several games a week in in a season. And and every game, by the nature of the beauty of live sports, is different. And so how do you create something that's able to be fresh and able to be adaptable to the live sport that's taking place without creating this massive debt of an overhead of of of, you know, rendering all this content at this scale. And so we realized very early on that we had to abandon the traditional approach.
Ben Casey:And and it pushed us to to build the experience on totally new architecture. So actually, for the first time, the the the whole experience and the scoreboard is actually built on a gaming engine versus the old approach that uses kind of proprietary sports software and hardware. And and the result is kind of not only a richness, but a responsiveness to the to the live sport experience, where the action on the court becomes, you know, in part, some part of the input that generates the experience dynamically in some cases. So this opened a whole new world of creative possibilities in terms of the fan experience and interactive elements of the fan experience too.
Charlie Evans:Yeah, man. That that fan experience element is is huge. I'm I assume that the Halo now sets kind of a new benchmark for arenas, especially as more venues are being built for you mentioned before, that mixed use, year round use. So from a fan experience point of view, how does it how does the future look, and how does this set a new benchmark for for new arenas and and existing arenas?
Ben Casey:Yeah. Well, I think for me, probably the most noticeable moment in recent sporting benchmarks was when UFC three zero six went into the sphere. And I think, you know, that broke all sorts of records. And it it really demonstrated that fans are looking for a new new and unique experience. And something that, you know, really sets that live viewership apart from, you know, like the the experience you can get at home.
Ben Casey:And so, you know, to get fans back through the gates and to get them into a live sports setting, you really need to provide something that's that's novel and unique and something that you can only get, an experience that you can only have in that location. And so I think the Clippers have really done a great job in taking some of the ingredients that we saw in the sphere and, you know, converting it in a way that can deliver that novelty and that unique experience at a faster pace and a lower cost. It's got a lot of the same visual impact and the enhanced and heightened stimulus that, you know, that the screen brings. But it's able to be done in a relatively repeatable format. And I think the most important thing about it is a really ownable experience.
Ben Casey:So, you know, it's not a remix and repurpose of kind of trends or, you know, elements of the fan experience that people have seen before. It's entirely new. And I think, you know, as we as we get into kind of like, you know, completing the first season, getting into the second season, you'll start to see that stretch out even further. Because I think, you know, when we looked at it, it's like, you know, we experienced this in The Middle East where, you know, we would be involved in a project that broke records. And then, you know, very very quickly on the tail of that, in this kind of like arms race, you know, copycat culture that exists, you know, an another venue was built that breaks that record.
Ben Casey:And I think, you know, the thing that will keep the or future proof the IntuitDome specifically is not just the scale of the screen, but just the extent to which the, you know, the expanded tool set will enable it the experiences to keep on delivering that sensation of something new. So it's not just about the scale of it. It's actually about the the deeper capabilities that drive it as well.
Charlie Evans:Mate, it's really interesting because I think kind of with all the projects that are going on around the world at the moment, especially when you you reference areas like The Middle East and and what's happening in in Saudi Arabia, it's gonna be really interesting to see what happens in the future, and we can come on to this later as to how our future arena stadia learn from tech like this and how they can implement it into into that space. I think one of the interesting areas as well is we've we've we've spoken about kind of the the complexities of of basketball and everything else there. If we look at things from more of a mixed use lens, how will that halo enhance things like concerts, esports events, and and just general shows that are coming into that space across the year?
Ben Casey:Yeah. Well, we've we've had a few baptisms of fire when it comes to the more mixed use of of the venue itself. And I think one of the advantages we've had is that we never ever really viewed the Halo as a scoreboard. It was never referred to as a scoreboard. And in that sense, you know, it really was kind of like, you know, part of the capability of the space.
Ben Casey:And I think, you know, what we've done in reshuffling the whole tech stack and moved from these kind of proprietary softwares that serve the niche role in the sporting industry. When a new stadium project goes up, there's a handful of players that are the go tos for the kind of like the lead software and hardware agents that service that big screen. And what we did is we basically left that all behind and moved it down the tech stack and actually used a visual operating system that's endemic to entertainment. It's used in 80% of tier one shows that happen globally. So having that software and hardware that's a little bit more relatable to the entertainment environment has made it really adaptable to, like, that entertainment usage.
Ben Casey:Because as you say, like, these venues, the target is somewhere between two to three hundred days of usage a year. And a lot of that comes in the form of concerts and and other forms of rental that sort of like deviate from the sport core. And, you know, by doing this, what we've been able to do is make this venue that has all of this capability built in, really have sort of a an ability for people to be able to plug into it and dull things dull shows in pretty quickly. And I think, you know, Fire Aid is a great example of that. You know, a six hour concert that was put together in one week.
Ben Casey:You know, 30 odd 30 odd artists coming together the last minute. But we were able to make the Halo accessible to that experience. Similar with UFC, you know, you know, the the Sphere was a year in a year in development, $20,000,000 spent on the experience for this one off moment. And when the UFC three eleven came to the Intuit Dome, I think they got a lot of the firepower that they experienced in that in that sphere. It was quite well documented by the fans.
Ben Casey:But it was done with a full week, you know, kind of lead up and a fraction of the budget. So I think, you know, these measures to kind of like reshuffle the tech stack have really made it a lot more applicable to these other clients coming in. And then, obviously, as I mentioned, the whole thing is built on an Unreal Engine, which again, is endemic to the gaming industry. So it's completely tuned for eSports. And then, there's a couple of things we've done with custom software, where we've basically reduced this third party dependence on ourselves.
Ben Casey:So we've provided the clippers with a an event configurator that takes a lot of the institutional knowledge that we've gained, you know, working with this unique format, the double sided halo and the different viewing angles, and build that into presets so that somebody coming in with limited time and a very basic operator can really access the full capabilities of the halo in a way that makes sense for audiences.
Charlie Evans:Yeah. I I and I guess we're probably at the at the start, really, of kind of what fan experience and kind of activations will be going forwards. Is there gonna be, like, a new wave that we expect to see over the coming months and years in the future?
Ben Casey:Yeah. I think so. I think this this probably is taking a little bit of time to come through. I think there's a little bit of muscle memory that exists. Like, when when you when you think about, like, say, the the sponsor integration as an example, it's it's it's fundamental to the experience.
Ben Casey:And at the moment, it's kind of at the cost of the live viewing experience to some extent, in the same way that ads are sort of at the cost of TV entertainment. And it was a very clear vision from the onset, from the president of the Clippers, Gillian Zucker, to create, you know, a much more seamlessly integrated brand sponsorship product, right? Her vision was to create something that was more akin to Super Bowl ads, where, you know, the sponsor interaction is actually becomes part of the fabric of the experience. It's something that fans, you know, anticipate and enthusiastically embrace in. And that hasn't really come full into full fruition in year one.
Ben Casey:But we're seeing a lot of sponsors who, you know, kind of viewed this as a, you know, a standard product in terms of their sponsorship in the year one, and didn't really fully understand or embrace the capacity for this to really kind of like, you know, drive a really unique and memorable experience. And, you know, we're seeing a lot of those sponsors really clamor to get much more involved in creating a sponsorship product that is, you know, way more integrated into the overall experience. And and some of the things that this venue has to its advantage on that front are the ability to address every fan individually at their seat. We've talked about there being a gaming engine that's running the kind of the sport presentation. But one of the most visible features that fans taking their seats get a sense of there's something different here is actually, essentially Xbox game buttons on every seat.
Ben Casey:And what that does is it obviously sets the expectation that there's going to be a much more interactive experience. But that's actually only the tip of the iceberg. There's all sorts of technology that enables them to address every fan individually at their seats, leads to a whole new set of opportunities relative to the way we do, you know, interactive games, but certainly like driving loyalty and fan behavior and rewarding and enabling people to redeem, you know, kind of, you know, sort of prizes and rewards for for being a being a solid fan. And so, you know, we're definitely starting to see, you know, the next wave of people who are now beginning are able to see it, and now able to jump in and say, alright, I understand the opportunity that exists here, and we really want to come on board with you to define a whole new era of kind of sponsor interaction in the space.
Charlie Evans:I think, mate, from the from the new revenue angle, it's always it's always interesting, especially from from our side at Talisman. We're we're always looking at new ways of exploiting and exploring new revenue channels. And when things like this come into the market, it's always it's always intriguing to see how how it's embraced, especially by sponsors, because there's a very traditional mindset at times of logo slapping and everything else. But like I say, when it's such an interactive opportunity and, yes, you can drive call to action in the seats, but also it's the takeaways. And if you're there is this movement towards kind of fan loyalty and and and everything else.
Charlie Evans:It seems to present a real opportunity as as we move forward. So I'm really excited to see kind of how new revenues are built from from this type of technology because it will definitely come, and it will become a a huge asset for for for sports properties and Mark told us, I'm sure. Just on the topic of fans still, there's a lot of talk obviously around how this has created home court advantage. How has the tech affected the atmosphere in the arena? How has it affected the fans?
Charlie Evans:And in turn, obviously, what happened on the court and and and how the players are reacting to it?
Ben Casey:Yeah. I think this was probably one of the most intriguing elements of the initial brief. I mean, our our initial perception was, oh, they're looking to leverage some of our entertainment tool set and bring it into this sporting arena. But actually, as we got into it, it was much more about this fan experience and driving this kind of notion of competitive advantage. And I think, you know, when you look at the venue as a whole, every design detail is engineered around providing an edge.
Ben Casey:For the Clippers. I think for so long, they were sharing home with the the Lakers up the road. And Yeah. Know, this was a great opportunity to kind of like move out, find an ownable experience, but most importantly, find an experience that gave them an edge. And and I think that, you know, when we started to look into that, you know, there's so many firsts in this arena.
Ben Casey:The first thing we did is we basically got the NBA rule book and started to red line areas where, you know, we were gonna be encountering kind of friction between, you know, what we're able to do in this arena versus what the rules were planned for. So that's where we kind of started strategically. And in the process of kind of really examining this kind of notion of home court advantage, you know, we discovered that, you know, the NBA across all of the, you know, US professional sporting leagues still has the strongest home court advantage naturally for multiple reasons. You know, some of these are around, you know, kind of objective less objective fouls, you know, given an advantage to the home team. I think there's a the stat was about that.
Ben Casey:I think it was about 3.4 points a game for that, which was which was quite astounding for us when we were looking at it. And then we start we started to find all of these other kind of like minor increments of advantage that we could squeeze out. And so we really built our experience around that to make sure that we were taking advantage of all of these small measures we could collect together to build like a pretty good points differentiation statistically. But at its base, you know, beyond the science, it's really about generating a certain atmosphere. And I think, you know, the Clippers famously went out.
Ben Casey:They were really looking for the level of intensity and primal fandom that you experience in the college sports and even in Bundesliga. You know, that was kind of where they targeted us to, you know, kind of look for the atmosphere they wanted to create. And I think, you know, the Halo has many features that help generate that in concert with some of the fan programming that they have. And that's definitely something that's been noticed by the players, both opposing teams and and the Clippers players themselves. Opposing teams are shooting way below the NBA average.
Ben Casey:In fact, I think they would be opposing teams coming into the Intuit Dome If they were a team in the NBA, based on the three throw percentage, it would they would be last in the whole of the NBA. So there's definitely elements that are having a kind of a tangible effect. But I think probably the thing that's most noticeable for people coming into the arena for the first time is just the extent to which, you know, the tool set is used to kind of build and then harness that energy momentum, which is so critical to basketball. And there's a couple of techniques that we have to help help build and maintain that momentum.
Charlie Evans:Yeah. I mean, you see a lot of that across a lot of sports. I mean, I'm a I'm a big football fan myself. I'm originally from The UK. So you that momentum is always big in sport.
Charlie Evans:I think what's really interesting when you look at the the narrative coming from the players as well is a lot of them have said it's the most incredible thing that they've seen in basketball, and you touched on it there that it's obviously affecting the psychology of players during the games. Now I assume that the the Clippers players playing at home more regularly will will get used to it, and it will just become a support mechanism. But there's obviously that side of things where it is going to get into the heads of the into the heads of the opposition and have an effect. And if the Clippers can use that to their benefit, then it's only gonna be a positive. So I guess it's almost like the the Halo's created the the sixth player for the team, would you say?
Ben Casey:Yeah. Yeah. That's and that that was a really interesting distinction. You know, as we as we embarked on this project, it was it was it was very, very clear that this this halo wasn't a screen. It wasn't a scoreboard.
Ben Casey:It's not an object. It's more of an entity. And actually, you know, all of the extended technology that enables it to kind of see, hear and react kind of makes it more of a more sentinel, like a fan. And so, you know, we actually referred to it as a super fan because it's able to operate as such in the way it's able to anticipate what the players and the crowd need and essentially lead them into battle. So, you know, that's where a lot of the programming, we have a feature called mood ring, which essentially kind of picks up on the mood of the audience and shifts things and brings the intensity where it's needed.
Ben Casey:And another feature of search programming that is able to dynamically track the action on the core, identify when there's kind of like a points run or key pivotal plays, and use that to start a series of programming that really sort of like looks to maintain that momentum. And even if a an opposing team look to throw in a time out to drain some of the heat out of the bowl, you know, the the the programming doesn't stop when the stop you know, the the, you know, the the game clock stops. That's when the focus shifts to the audience and their clock starts, right, to to keep that intensity up so that it basically mitigates the value of the time out.
Charlie Evans:Yeah. Fantastic. Mate, really, really exciting. We we touched on it earlier. Obviously, a lot of arenas being built around the world, a lot of arenas being announced and kind of being at the forefront of innovation, I guess.
Charlie Evans:Are we going to start seeing more of this type of tech in those arenas as they as they emerge? Is this just a start?
Ben Casey:Yeah. I think so. I think we definitely experienced in this this project a bit of a line in the sand towards a more intelligent experience driven by, I guess, more capable software and hardware. And I think, you know, when we step back and looked at it, based on the initial brief, which was to deliver a fan experience that also provided a home court advantage, you know, we really considered that, you know, pro athletes, owners, teams, they're doing they're going to every measure in their business and in their training to find that miniscule extra level of edge, right? And I think this is a new muscle that can be flexed to enhance performance.
Ben Casey:And I think these infrastructure projects have never really been looked at in that way from the onset. And I really believe they should. You know, I think, you know, when we kind of like dipped into this into this space in terms of like the, you know, the technology that runs these arenas, I think, you know, the message is really to kind of like understand when your industry is being underserved, right? And press hard for more innovative and relevant ideas. And I think that really is about making sure that you have the right experience and expertise you need to help inform the design that you need.
Ben Casey:You know, I think quite often this has been an afterthought. And while fan experience is kind of considered from a practical perspective by architects and consultants, thinking about fan movements, some of the fundamental building blocks that drive the fan experience, like the halo and the underlying technology that support it and drive it, aren't really considered until way down the line of stadium design. So, you know, I think that, you know, as people look at this and they see that this provides the opportunity to provide a competitive edge, I think that really changes the focus of the onset of these projects. But I also think if you think about the fan experience upfront, and you think about what the ownable experience you're looking for, that may inform the design, right? So to create something ownable versus, as I said, a remix and a repurposing of kind of trends, you really need to start there.
Ben Casey:And I think, you know, this was a project that did that. It was intensely complex to do it for the first time because there were a lot of conventions that needed to be broken in this industry. And I think the result, both from a functional perspective in terms of the usage and the way that the arena can be leveraged, but also from a an emotional perspective in terms of, like, the level of intensity and the atmosphere that can be generated, I think it will be the start of a of a new wave of of stadium builds.
Charlie Evans:Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's loads of lessons that can be learned, and there's loads of experiences that you guys have had that you'll be happy to pass on and and and advise on through throughout the whole process. Why why should leagues, teams, developers be thinking about engaging you guys at Spin FX when it when they're considering kind of transformational experiences like the Halo?
Ben Casey:Well, I think, you know, obviously, you know, Intuit Dome really stands as the first work working prototype of a next generation of of arenas, stadiums. And all of the of the new elements and lessons we've learned from integration of these new technologies are definitely being hard to come by, but invaluable going forwards. And I think, you know, creatively, it's, you know, our our background and diversity of exposure to the entertainment industry, and different elements of that space, obviously have some benefit, but I think potentially more so the technical know how that enables us to challenge the conventions and calculate the risk and reward to bring some of these kind of mission critical functions of a sporting experience in a live setting and sort of, you know, sort of turn, you know, some of the formula upside down on this, I think, has has been the probably the main thing that's enabled advancement in this case.
Charlie Evans:And then finally, from my side, what's next for you guys? I mean, this has been a huge project. You're obviously always busy and and and building great products. But what's coming down the pipe? What's exciting you?
Charlie Evans:And what's on the what's on the horizon?
Ben Casey:Well, I think we're really excited to get into a second year with the Clippers and start to, you know, again, you know, I think in the in year one, it was really about, you know, the base level experience and seeing that whole elevation that comes through kind of the insertion of these new elements. I think in year two, you see a much more nuanced approach to how those are leveraged and a more dynamic exploitation of some of those opportunities. So super excited about the continuation of the project we started. Elsewhere in the world, we do a lot of work with IP owners, with entertainment franchises like Disney and Universal. And there's really a lot of really interesting stuff going on in that space at the moment.
Ben Casey:Obviously, as I mentioned, Epic Universe is probably the latest park that we've had involvement in. That's just gone online with some select audiences. And I think is possibly the most technically advanced themed entertainment experience you're going to see. It's really, really quite mind blowing what's been generated out there. And the work that we continue to do with Disney always kind of excites us about what's really sort of like, you know, on the minds of the Imagineers and what's next in terms of some of these kind of big spectacles.
Ben Casey:And we're really excited with the passage of time that's coming up in The US and specifically LA with a decade of sport that's that's burgeoning here, and especially LA being almost like the center of that whole kind of push that we'll see over the next five to ten years with the events that are coming through and and really excited to get into that and and have involvement on some of those big global sporting stages.
Charlie Evans:Yeah. We are too. I think it's a really exciting time for sport in The US. Like I said, the next decade is is is really exciting. The next few years are really exciting.
Charlie Evans:So we'll definitely be spending a lot of time in in markets like LA, but, yeah, it's a it's a it's a magic time for sport in the in The States, and I'm really excited to be a part of it. So Ben, I think that's it from from from our side. I've really enjoyed this. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you again for taking the time out to join us.
Charlie Evans:It's been really great to hear about the Halo project and the and the wider story of the business. Any closing notes or anything that you'd like to say before we before we wrap up?
Ben Casey:Just love to get you in a seat for the playoffs. I'm sure the Clippers will go through and and, yeah, I'd like like to invite you to come out and see it in person. It definitely definitely brings, you know, everything we've been talking about to life. And like I said, there's the science behind it. But the most important thing is that when you're sitting in the seat, all of that technology melts away.
Ben Casey:And what you're experiencing is a super heightened live sport experience, and I'd love for you to come visit it.
Charlie Evans:Now I will take up that invite as soon as I can. I really appreciate that. I'm I'm really excited to see the see the stadium and see the technology, as I said earlier in the in the in the podcast. We'll leave it there for today. Say thank you to the listeners once again for tuning in.
Charlie Evans:We'll see you again soon, and I hope that you've enjoyed this edition of the the Playbook podcast today.