Stephen Buoro: Author of The Five Sorrowful Mysteries of Andy Africa

This week, Jack is joined by debut author Stephen Buoro. Stephen's novel, the Five Sorrowful Mysteries of Andy Africa was published on the 13th of April. It's already received impressive praise. Author Max Porter described it as eccentric, profound and timely and says he fell in love immediately.

In this episode, Stephen delves into the themes of his debut novel, including duality, faith, and science, as well as the psychological elements of his writing. The conversation also covers Stephen's experience balancing his PhD studies with writing, and the power of reading and writing to empower oneself.


Purchase The Five Sorrowful Mysteries of Andy Africa 

(0:27) Introduction
(4:00) Early reading
(13:07) Getting into creative writing
(18:29) Current reading habits
(22:40) Recent reads
(32:36) The writing process
(39:08) The Five Sorrowful Mysteries of Andy Africa

Welcome to Mostly Books Meets, a weekly podcast by the independent award-winning bookshop, Mostly Books. Nestled in the Oxfordshire town of Abingdon-on-Thames, Mostly Books has been spreading the joy of reading for fifteen years. Whether it’s a book, gift, or card you need the Mostly Books team is always on hand to help. Visit our website.

The podcast is produced and presented by Jack Wrighton and the team at Mostly Books. It is edited by Story Ninety-Four. Find us on Twitter @mostlyreading & Instagram @mostlybooks_shop.

Meet the host:
Jack Wrighton is a bookseller and social media manager at Mostly Books. His hobbies include photography and buying books at a quicker rate than he can read them.
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The Five Sorrowful Mysteries of Andy Africa is published in the UK by Bloomsbury


Books mentioned in this episode include:
The Little Mermaid by Hans Christian Anderson - ISBN: 9780062692597
Swiss Family Robinson by Johann David Wyss - ISBN: 9780141325309
My Name Is Why by Lemn Sissay - ISBN: 9781786892362
Normal People by Sally Rooney - ISBN: 9780571334650
Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky - ISBN: 9780099922803
A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess - ISBN: 9780141182605

To find more titles, visit our website

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Mostly Books

Award-winning indie bookshop in Abingdon, Oxfordshire.

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[00:00:00] Jack Wrighton: Welcome to Mostly Books Meets the weekly podcast for the Incurably bookish. We will be talking to authors and creatives from across the world of publishing and discussing the books they have. Loved looking for a recommendation then look no further. Head to your favorite cozy spot and let us pick out your next favorite book.
On the Mostly Books Meets podcast this week, it is my great pleasure to welcome debut author Stephen Buoro. Stephen's novel, the Five Sorrowful Mysteries of Andy Africa is published on the 13th of April. It's already received. Impressive praise author Max Porter described it as a eccentric, profound and timely.
He says he fell in love immediately. Stephen has a degree in mathematics and is currently studying for his PhD in creative and critical writing. Stephen, welcome to Mostly Books Meets.
[00:00:54] Stephen Buoro: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:00:56] Jack Wrighton: Our absolute pleasure, and how does it feel, I presume this, how long have you been writing Andy Africa? How long has this book been in the process for?
[00:01:06] Stephen Buoro: Yeah, I think I would say for five years now, since 2018, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:01:14] Jack Wrighton: And so how does it feel? Cause writing is a, it's a lengthy process. A lot of the authors we talk to, they say, oh, I first had this idea at this point and then I writing at this point, and then suddenly, you get to this moment where the book is about to enter the world.
How does that feel for you as an author? Is that exciting? Is it nerve-wracking? I imagine a mix of emotions.
[00:01:38] Stephen Buoro: Yes. A mix of emotions. Yes. I've been working on this book for all these years and it's doing this fantastic journey. It's been, full of so much excitement for me, and so much fun. It's been so much fun writing a book, and of course there've been some of course many days of many gloomy days and days I have to let, I had to do so far.
Yeah, and so just a mix of promotions and so I'm really looking forward to the book anyway. Being published, I appear in the bookshops and all that and I can't with for it. So read the book. Yeah. I hope Yeah, there are thoughts in some way and get, see different kind of world.
Yeah. I hope.
[00:02:19] Jack Wrighton: Mm. Yes, cause I get a sense speaking to authors that there's a feeling of, once the book is with readers, it almost takes on a life of its own. It's left the nest and it's just doing its own thing, and I imagine because we're on the sort of cusp of publication I know some authors don't look at reviews, but have you started seeing maybe on social media people saying, oh, I'm reading this book at the moment, advanced copies and things like that?
[00:02:45] Stephen Buoro: Yes. I. These days, right? It's so impossible to stay away from seeing reviews. Whether you like it or not your publicity team might, will send you some reviews and yeah, I've seen some wonderful reviews, some wonderful reviews of the book and I'm just actually amazed by how like different readers tend to, read the book slightly differently, right from your own point of view, really amazing, which is how, what art you do and actually stimulates our own personal responses, to it and and it's very interesting. I like some aspects of the book that I didn't think too much about, relating strongly to those aspects and the like, commenting more on them and know, and then someone asked, I thought, oh like at the forefront to the book and which is really amazing and they, yeah, once the book, as I said, once the book gets to the audience, it becomes, the property, of the, of the audience and yeah, and then yeah, for the right, you just move on with your life and go, you move to your next project.
[00:03:47] Jack Wrighton: You're like, I'm done with that now. I, it's for the, it's for the readers to do with what they want. And in terms of yourself as a reader, we'll go back to Andy Africa later on, but have words, reading, writing, has that always been an interest or did that come later on as a kid? Were were you much of a reader.
[00:04:08] Stephen Buoro: Yes. In my case, I actually began reading very late, right? Very late in my life. Due to so many circumstances growing up in northern Nigeria and if some of the first schools I attended weren't good schools, they were public schools, and I attended a school called Model School, which was supposed to be like the Model School, and which...
[00:04:31] Jack Wrighton: Okay.
[00:04:31] Stephen Buoro: just a very terrible school. For example, many classrooms had 50 some, 60 some, 70 people in class and all it was, yeah, it was, yeah, and so you don't even get any attention from me, from teachers and that is when teachers do come to class to teach. Because either do come because most times, Yeah. Yeah, often didnt come anyway but anyway, things changed for me when I got a scholarship to attend a missionary school, st. Michaels in state. So it's a school funded by Irish missionaries and they had this small but brilliant library and the library was full of books, book donations from Irish children, Irish families and all that. So that was when I learned how to read, I think I learned how to read most of the time my life. Maybe six, seven or something, and yeah, something like that, and then that was where I began like at home I didn't have, my parents weren't, you had basic education weren't super educated like that, and and so they only had the bible and some religious texts at home. So those were like some of the first books I knew. But so just most of the time in my life when in my school, when I went to my school library, picked up some books and was just wowed by them.
Just seemed like a completely different experience, like a parallel university in some way that tend to, that seemed to stimulate that aspect of myself, my memory, my emotions, my, just, my thinking and all. It was, that's this wonderful experience, and so I fell in love with books and I started reading lots of books and and first after that was when I began writing and I wrote my first story and all that and since then I've been on this very interesting, intriguing journey. Yeah.
[00:06:23] Jack Wrighton: And do you remember those early stories that you wrote when you were younger? Or have they been, have you just forgotten them now or can you remember what you were writing about or.
[00:06:33] Stephen Buoro: Yeah. yeah, I can still remember some. I can still remember some. In particular, the first story I wrote was about the war in a Kingdom. How the fish were ostracized? Yeah, were banished and they had from land and they had to move into water and trying to survive in water and and I remember showing the story to a school made after reading the story, he just didn't believe that I was the one who wrote it. He felt perhaps I'd copied it from somewhere, or I didn't know, or, yeah, and I, it was very crazy because, I don't know whether he just thought I wasn't good enough or in a way or so and I think that's probably the bit that was like, okay more like a motivation to actually want to write more, so it felt at that time that I could actually be good at this. Yeah, and of course, writing a story was hugely empowering. I felt as though I was a kind of a God. I could create things, I could create mountains with eyes. I could create a world and have the kind of agency I didn't have in my community then and yeah, at the time, and yeah.
[00:07:50] Jack Wrighton: It's a powerful thing, isn't it? Suddenly, I don't know, realizing and talking to other authors. It's a moment that several of them have had of this kind of, oh wow, I can write anything that comes into my mind is legitimate. It's, there's no kind of, this is the correct way of doing this, or this is, obviously people have ideas about that, actually the truth is you can do what you like and as you said, empowering it must be a kind of a, particularly to a young mind, quite a rush, I imagine, like a, oh wow, and with your friend reacting in that way, I love that kind of disbelief. Oh, you couldn't have written this. You must have been like, how dare you. How dare you? I did.
[00:08:32] Stephen Buoro: Yeah and on that note too it just reminds me of what Steve Jobs said, right? Or that I if creative people should always try to have that child's imagination or that child's excitement things. Yeah. Things this kind of as excitement you used to have as children.
And I, I think that's all right. It also feels so to me and while writing, that writing something that I'm usually invested in. I'm so like, like my whole being seems to be. I've not taken LSD before, but I imagine that's how it might feel like to, take such a drug that kind of like living in a world full of colour, full of like a mosaic kind of world. I, I don't know. So so that's what is stimulates and that's side childish or Yeah, will be and all that, yeah.
[00:09:26] Jack Wrighton: In terms of those early books, so interestingly, those early books that you were coming across and reading were the ones that had been donated by, these Irish families. So in terms of, do you remember some of the books that you were drawn to, the titles of them? It's okay if not, but just are there any that you stand out for you?
[00:09:44] Stephen Buoro: Yeah many books in my school, I present many of them were like student classics. Like The Little Mermaid I think, the Adventures of Pinocchio, I'm not sure if I'm saying that right of course the Adventures of Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn, Western children's classics. Yeah. But I think one of the books I fell in love with was the Swiss Family Robinson by Johann David Wyss so it's like a children, a bridge version of the book and all the children edition of the book, and to this one of the story about the Swiss family who are like on an adventure or an adventure, right? So I mean traveling, whatever. Yeah. To, I think to meet New Guinea or something, and of course they experience a shipwreck and then they are stranded in this desert island and they have to survive and all that and yeah. So that's wonderful story that seem to show, so many aspects of, the human self, right? Our ability to adapt to deal with adversity. Apart from that it also had elements of signs, faith and all that like come and, which I found very interesting and yeah.
[00:11:00] Jack Wrighton: And just the, some of the themes you've mentioned there. I feel you're saying that they attracted you then I feel those are things that you can see in Andy Africa as well. Is it fair to say those have stayed with you and are now reflected in kind of, at least in this book? Maybe not in all your writings, certainly in Andy Africa.
[00:11:22] Stephen Buoro: Yes. Yes. Definitely. Like some of the things of my book, there's a huge schema, whatever, of duality like in the book. Yeah, duality of like science versus the art or science versus faith. I know, I think, yeah. I could draw like an inspiration from that book. Cause when I was very young, it was amazing seeing I think one of the songs, I can't remember his name now, it's William or Fritz or something that who, who was interested in science and know, he sextant to measure angles, and even the father who was also had this scientific view to things and all, and I also find it very interesting, and I think that also motivated me later in life to seeing science and art as, these two. Although they might seem parallel disciplines, but parallel disciplines, but they're actually much more intertwined. They're all in the pursuit of truth and even though meaning like literally tech seem to want to show a dichotomy between these two things. But most times, they're actually more intertwined than we think and I think arts should try to bridge for me, a kind of arts that, that interests me a lot, arts, I try to bridge these two disciplines that might seem so different. Yeah.
[00:12:43] Jack Wrighton: Mm. I think that's a lovely point 'cause I think it is very, in the way in sort of education you find that you have the humanities and the sciences, we've it's in built that we are designed to see them as these very. Separate things and yet I've met many scientists who are passionate about the arts or artists who have a science background.
And do you find, as someone who because was mathematics, was that your first degree? Was that the first thing you studied at university and then you did, and then you went into creative writing? Is that correct?
I.
[00:13:17] Stephen Buoro: Yes. Yes, that's correct. Yeah.
[00:13:19] Jack Wrighton: And so do you find, so you know, you, do you quite enjoy bringing the two together? Do you see the two, as all part of your process, do you involve maths in your kind of writing process at all?
[00:13:32] Stephen Buoro: Yes. Yes, I do. I think readers who that read my book will see amid influences of, the science , mathematics and all in the book for me the sciences and the arts, all form part of who I am and how I see the world and I'm really like grateful for having had, the privilege to have studied in these different quotes. Yeah, different disciplines, yeah, cause I think for example, like mathematics for example, seem to have this very structured. It might, seem rigid to an extent anyway, way of examining the world and all that. You create axioms, I use axioms to pursue like other axioms, create other axioms, create other truth, other mathematical theory. But why, the arts in literature for example it's much more philosophical. Nothing is black and white. Nothing is very clear, and it's much more nuanced, and so I think bridging these two ways of conceptualizing the world, I mean from this very discreet, maybe not very discreet, but this very definite, scientific way of thinking and then this very nuanced way of thinking it, arts in philosophy and then present together, I think would actually help us to, understand our human situation, understand our word, doing much more better. I think I, which is what I tell you to do in my novel Andy Africa.
[00:15:02] Jack Wrighton: Mm, Absolutely, and yes it's such an interesting thing 'cause when you put it like that about that science has this very, you work it out and then you get to an answer and that's like the definitive, like we've got the answer now and then, yes, the humanities, could sometimes be, it's great to explore the gray areas, but of course that has its down points as well.
'Cause with science, if you think you've got to the right answer and that's it, but you haven't, that can cause all sorts of problems, and then, in the humanities, if you're constantly dealing with kind of, oh who's to say if that's, I don't know, bad or good or whatnot, that obviously then comes with its own issues. So I really love that idea of that they need like scales, they need like balancing each other out. Otherwise we're flying off in, in one direction or the other.
[00:15:49] Stephen Buoro: Yeah. Yeah, and on that notes too I also usually like how, because like scientists now, we can only, science can always, usually examine like very clear, definite problems, and problems that we can, issues that we can investigate like in through the scientific method, right?
With the, very clear parameters and all. Yeah, and so science is most science like, there's no, they not very efficient enough for examining many, much more difficult problems that we confront in our day-to-day lives. Ethical problems, for example. Many of these huge philosophy questions, for example, our own human existence, the existence of God and all these are very important questions that we need answer for. But of course, the sciences cannot really provide any substantial answer often. Yeah, oftentimes, no, most times yeah.
[00:16:43] Jack Wrighton: And that the turmoil of the two definitely comes across in Andy as a person in the novel, is dealing with kind of all of these, there's elements of like faith. He's a poet. He's got that mathematical shorthand for the curse as he calls it, he's a tumultuous person in terms of his personality.
There's so much going on there, and of course there's a lot of the themes working there, but we're seeing the world through his eyes. It feels personality driven as well. So you talked about the Swiss Family Robertson with their personalities, who they are, and these people.
Would you say as well, for you as a writer, is that an in to a book in terms of a person, a personality? Is that something particularly like focusing on in your writings?
[00:17:28] Stephen Buoro: Yes. Like in books I love reading it and hopefully even in the books, I hope to write I think I'm hugely drawn to like very psychological kind of writing. Like one of my all time favorite writers is Fyodor Dostoevsky. His gift for examining the resources of the human mind and the psychodynamics there, it's usually wonderful and and I strongly relate to that. So the personality and rich characters and conflict that stem from the inside and how the clash with outside and what it means for our world, for our humans struggle, our human situation. I find that really intriguing about fiction and about books. Yeah, and I'm usually trying to, to these elements, yeah, about books.
[00:18:17] Jack Wrighton: And in terms of reading today, obviously you are doing your PhD in creative and critical writing, which I imagine includes a lot of reading. You're a writer.
[00:18:28] Stephen Buoro: It does.
[00:18:29] Jack Wrighton: Do you find, do you have time for just like picking up, any book that takes your fancy or is it quite restricted by your various hats that you're wearing? The academic and the writerly hats.
[00:18:40] Stephen Buoro: At the time I became my PhD and my supervisor told me that, oh this journey about to embark on that. Your reading will usually have to change, and you have to be very structured, and at that time I was a bit doubtful. Oh what's this guy really saying? But that, that, yeah. But that has been the case now like over the past few years. The books that I've tended to read, I've not had time to just pick any book, any random, most times the books. I ended up reading with books that I could relate in some way to my research. I know that. So I just can't wait to be dealt with my thesis and then I then to like, from that part of my brain anyway and then to take a huge sigh of relief and then become like general, yeah.
[00:19:31] Jack Wrighton: You'll look forward to the day.
[00:19:33] Stephen Buoro: Yeah, and it just become a general, like in general, I have, I've missed out just speaking books. Just random books and just reading and all that. Yeah. But it's been a very tough journey too. I had to finish my novel. I had to read all this critical stuff, read so me so many things and yeah. But it's been a wonderful journey. Yeah.
[00:19:52] Jack Wrighton: And what, if you don't mind me asking, what year are you on now of your PhD?
[00:19:57] Stephen Buoro: So I'm currently in my fourth year and so I have the complete draft of my thesis and I'm actually hoping to submit my thesis within the next few weeks and yeah.
[00:20:09] Jack Wrighton: Oh, I almost feel bad to you now 'cause I feel like you
[00:20:14] Stephen Buoro: No.
[00:20:14] Jack Wrighton: Oh, I've got so much to do and...
[00:20:17] Stephen Buoro: No, it's no of no, of course. It's so wonderful talking about this book. I've been working on it for so long and just in, in my bedroom, I'm just battling with it every day and know, actually having opportunities to talk about it. So it's really wonderful. So I hope to complete my thesis within the next few weeks. Hopefully will the next few weeks and then wait for the .... Everything goes perfectly. Yeah, and then, yeah, to be different life for me, I think. Yeah.
[00:20:43] Jack Wrighton: Yes, Yes. A very different life. I think anyone I've known who's done like a PhD level of Of academia. I dunno. There's a kind of them during and then them after, and it's almost like two different people because your whole life becomes so focused on that goal.
[00:21:00] Stephen Buoro: Yeah. What is exactly about, the PhD or let's say master's degree or a first degree whereby, like you depend a lot or you depend a lot or you have to, your study is being constrained by so many factors, right? Your lecturers the faculty, whatever and the deadlines too are all, all, everything is just handed down to you. But the peers now you're left your own devices it seems, and you have to create, design your whole your schedule. You have to manage your time and it's wonderful, and you have to, and you have the freedom to, so really, whatever you want to read, do whatever you want to do, and then you have to put in something, right?
Which is what is exciting and which can be a bit challenging at the same time. But yeah. All in all, I've, I think I've actually enjoyed my PhD, perhaps slightly more than my master's. Because, yeah, in a way, yeah. Cause the masters was so intense. One year to just focus on, so much deadlines, all these deadlines imposed on you, and you have to create so much really pretty, very short periods of time. Yeah. Wherever it just, it's, all great experiences anyway, I think. Yeah. It's a good experience.
[00:22:12] Jack Wrighton: But the pressure of, yes, it's all you, and in terms of the ideas that you put on the page, I didn't know. I feel even in a master's, you get away with kind of, someone said this and I agree with that. But with a PhD, it's all, it's all you.
[00:22:28] Stephen Buoro: Yeah. yeah. What are you saying? What do you have to say? Yeah.
[00:22:33] Jack Wrighton: And in terms of the books that you've read, both for the degree or more recently and, the last sort of five years, let's say, are there any books that have stood out in that time period that you've read and that you've really chimed with or you've really enjoyed?
[00:22:48] Stephen Buoro: Yes. I've read a number of books, of course here, had a good number of books. One of the books I just read on my own that I don't think had any strong connection to my PhD. It's actually memoir by Lemn Sissay. My name is Why, very wonderful book. It's helped me to understand a bit more about Britishness this country in a way and of course it's illuminating for me. This experience of this black man, who grew up in these very constrained times. I mean in social care, the difficulties of social care and he struggles in the foster family, in foster care and all that and of course, like how the host institution, like the whole society is actually like, just, addresses in his experience and everything and of course how you triumph through all these difficulties, and that's a very wonderful book. And I book, I I just strongly recommend and yeah, and yeah.
[00:23:51] Jack Wrighton: You make a good bookseller. That's what we say on podcast that we turn all of our guests into booksellers of recommending books. Yeah, and yes, that's interesting that you say it's a good kind of way of, I dunno, getting a viewpoint of, what, like what is Britain as a country, which is as it is for any country, is it incredibly tricky and complicated thing. But you felt that one kind of gave you a really good sort of grounding for that.
[00:24:20] Stephen Buoro: Yeah, and especially because I've been in this country for, four years and some months now, and I wanted to also get a sense of all how, those eighties, I've heard of course about how the eighties were, a very difficult period for this, for the country and economically and all, and in many other ways and so just to get a sense of that period, like what was that period like? I actually, for like a young black boy and in fact, what a young black boy who doesn't have his parents and who was taken by this white family and his experience in foster care, all that kind of stuff. So it was just a very illuminating book for me and book just read for the ideas and yeah. Yeah, it's wonderful.
[00:25:01] Jack Wrighton: Were there any others that when you came over to the UK were there any others that you read at the time that sort of stood out to you? Or was that the one that kind of really holds a place?
[00:25:11] Stephen Buoro: Yeah, one of the books again, I found hugely, like illuminating to I, it's not a book, but actually it's a writer. I'll say, just when I was here, I first read Sally Rooney's books like I read Normal People and Conversations with Friends and if I had been in, I would've read the book in a completely different way. I would say I, yeah. I also read as this book says in this country, one far away country, Britain right, and of course I'll be, I mean I'll looking at it from that post-colonial lens and everything more from that point of view anyway. But when I learned the book here anyway, a few years back It was hugely, sorry, I'm going to use this word many times, but illuminating, just usually illuminating for me because I had, like in my creative writing workshop, there were many ladies in my creative writing workshop and I felt, I didn't know what their experience growing or felt like. I didn't have any sense what their life, I don't mean to say that, oh, that book told me about them, or give you any insights towards it. But at least I felt in a way, in a little way, like in, in some, gave me a sense of, okay what did it mean? What it means to be. A bit from Great Britain or from Ireland or something I know, and yeah. Yeah, I've read number of books. I can't remember the titles now. But I've read number of books, yeah, set here and yeah. But grade, I mostly read a lot of American authors, a of American authors. American literature is, it's just so huge and so powerful of course. The political power of America also bolstering it, yeah. Bolstering its influence worldwide, yeah.
[00:26:45] Jack Wrighton: But yes. Yeah, and in terms of, yeah, American literature, it's a really interesting sort of Powerhouse and very interesting book world as well, because I remember hearing a talk once by someone who the Booker Prize when they opened up to North American authors was, that was a big conversation 'cause people But they already have this prize...
[00:27:08] Stephen Buoro: Yeah. Pulitzer. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:11] Jack Wrighton: And that was just very, a very intevery interesting conversation about,alence of American literature, but also, that's British literature is also is not lost for any power globally...
[00:27:23] Stephen Buoro: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:23] Jack Wrighton: But it's...
[00:27:24] Stephen Buoro: What I find usually intriguing about American Choice, how almost any book can be American in the way, right? If it's some kind of strong connection, some connection, really not so strong to America. And what is really amazing how it's so amazing how American literature is so diverse and it has this huge range. Like it's just, it seems to be like at the center of the world in a way. If American novels, you can alien some space, appear. Appear on Earth and you want to like prescribe, prescribe. You want to recommend a good book, give a sense of what's Maybe human life might be about, maybe, I think you must give just one, one novel, I mean I'm biased towards African novels, like things apart and all. Yeah. But in a way you might just want to just give them one American novel that's just an American novel, cause it just seem to like cause you might give you just a good picture of where, of so many things about the world and not just, yeah, not just, but white people are, but just waste 10 ideas. But for other ideas and other experiences from around the world, I think. Yeah.
[00:28:29] Jack Wrighton: Yeah, I think that's a very good, I've never had, that's a, I really love that way of thinking about it. If you were to give an alien a book, to go, this will give you the first of idea of where we're at right now. But I think that's a very good point, I think an American novel because they have, yes, I think the kind of diversity of voices in American literature is much wider for a host of different, there's a lot of things in play there to make that and yeah, I love that idea. I'm gonna think about that for the rest of the day day now, of what would I try and recommend to an alien to say, I think this will give you the starters. Yeah.
[00:29:08] Stephen Buoro: Which is a bit sad in a way because it seems, oh, like we know of course, how America during this world in terms of maybe the defense spending. Yeah, I know that they're influence I know worldwide. But again, Seeing how that has ramifications even in terms of their literature and the big publishers are all based there. Yeah. The biggest publishers in the world and arguably has the biggest book market in the world anyway, and how, I don't know how perhaps the country has a bit too much power in a way, in that sense, in a way. It ha it really many questions. Anyway, let's just don't just leave that.
[00:29:50] Jack Wrighton: We could, yeah, so we could be, yeah, talking about that for a long time. But yes, it's a brilliant point and I'm interested in a question we ask on the podcast is usually a book that shaped you in some way or that you would recommend as a kind of an all-time favorite book of yours?
[00:30:09] Stephen Buoro: I don't actually, yeah, I don't actually have oh, like this book is my all time favorite because. If that is the case, I don't think I would want to write anymore. I got, there'd be no point. What's the point of, writing a book and, yeah. Yeah. I would say the Brothers Karamazov, yeah. It's it's just this wonderful book. Psychological insights in fact is on that topic, which no one get into right now. But I loved how, how, using a narrative how to, a narrative of partial side. Yeah. How does Dostoevsky managed to embed some of these big philosophical questions based them about ethics, morality?
The existence of about ethics, about morality? Again, how the book managed to capture that era of of Russia. The period in Russian history, it's yeah, it's, yeah, amazing. He's mind boggling and knowing that, oh, he wrote the book. I think we didn't, was it one and a half years? Or two? Two years or something and he had, yeah, and he was working on it. Yeah. Feverishly and all that. Yeah. That is also, that's mind boggling. Like how can you write like within this short period of time? Of course, I, of course he has been, like, before then he had been, thinking about the book and yeah, but still that is a huge achievement. One of the greatest books of everything. Yeah.
[00:31:31] Jack Wrighton: It's something I discussed actually with the author I was talking to last week called Alice Winn is yes. How do you define the period of writing? Because we were talking about these authors that you hear, oh, they wrote this book in six months or something, and you think how did you do that? Because yeah. It's so, to think that something like that could be written in such a short space of time seems baffling.
[00:31:59] Stephen Buoro: Yes. Yes. It's incredible really and the thing we should take away from here too is that It's, the credit process, of course is something we don't know that we're still trying to figure out. So like Chat GPT, GPT four and all those AI systems perhaps give us like slightly more insights right, into how these things happen and all. But still, there's still a huge way to go and they yeah, I'm sure. Many have these books that, for example one of my favorite books is a Clockwork Orange, I think was written in, was it like within 20 days or, I can't remember exactly. Yeah, and of course I'm sure like, it's also something you can, that's repeatable in a anyway so just this boast of inspiration at these periods when so many things just align together perfectly and write at those. Yeah, make a sacrifice, whatever, and the police this wonderful piece of writing just within a very short period of time and it's, yeah it's amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. And even my novel I wrote like the very first draft after getting the idea one day in June, 2018. Yeah. So I wrote the first draft actually very quickly within two and a half weeks
[00:33:11] Jack Wrighton: Oh wow. Amazing.
[00:33:13] Stephen Buoro: Around nearly 50,000 words. Yeah. I wrote it on my Blackberry phone then.
Yeah. Yeah. But that was, I made very. Rough first draft and which, yeah which, which went through some huge, significant changes and all but still, yeah, but I understand how it feels like that period I was just, it was like I had taken some powerful drugs. Again I don't, I hope they, they police listening to me because yeah I don't do drugs. I don't, yeah. No but it just felt, there's nothing, I think there's only nothing else to describe the experience, I think. Yeah. Let me just, experience of taking drugs as yeah, the analogy you hear, so it was also powerful. I was so energized, super and it was all so surreal that I just, and I wanted to do nothing else, but to just write that and be with these characters, travel, be work with them and all, and yeah and I wish many readers, I think that might be, again, how readers, how we read as we feel towards books. I usually love, we just, the whole entire world disappears and already the book remains like in focus and yeah.
[00:34:19] Jack Wrighton: Okay, so those two weeks, so the idea came to you, was it in a short space of time? It wasn't an idea that you mulled over for several months. The initial idea just came in like that.
[00:34:31] Stephen Buoro: Yeah. It's a mix of everything and of course the fuse was lit that evening, right? In June, 2018. I was sitting in my living room and then this voice just comes to me and it's just voice with so much sadness, shame, guilt, with so much power and urgency and I don't have to pick up my Blackberry phone and I started writing and writing. But I think, the dissertation, the book wouldn't be begun even much earlier than that. Cause some of the ideas I utilize in the book, for example the idea of HXVX, and yeah and the course of Africa where ideas like I was working on the previous project, like on the sci-fi novel and yeah.
So of course I many things of the book many preoccupations of the book. Things have been. Things that they had written in my mind in some way, are some things I had depressed or some things I wasn't confronting and all and then just this project that just came gave me the huge privilege and the opportunity to examine all these things and to look at my life, my community, my country, like in the different lights and yeah. So that's powerful moment of inspiration and...
[00:35:45] Jack Wrighton: And it came together because you, you talked about a voice, so it came together with that idea was Andy was this person that kind of, then it never, that you wrote it, I don't know, third person, and Andy was a character. It was always through Andy's eyes.
[00:36:00] Stephen Buoro: Yes, and this kind of, those came to me like it's just so powerful and they got the great motivation, should I say, or the great sign I saw that, oh, there's something here. Because before then I had been writing and writing. I would write 10 pages, 50 pages, a hundred, and I would stop and I would throw the idea away and Ill start out fresh again.
But this novel, what a good sign for me that this to this idea might work. I could tell this story. Like he in a very good way was seeing how, sorry, I'm looking at the book, seeing how I mean through Andy's voice, through his story, his life, his obsessions, his shames anger, his rage, his humor and all how I could use that to tell his story of the disasters, the crisis, the pain, the joys.
Deformed the laughter of contemporary Nigeria and in a way to contemporary Africa and all that, and how could just tell the story. So it was also that sweet sign for me that, oh, like this voice and this boy story could lend itself to all these wonderful things, and there, and that was just where I just saw all that signs. Also, just more motivated to follow on this story and to continue chasing him, write the process of writing the book. I was more like a secretary, just listening and then just writing, just listening and just wrote it down, I think.
[00:37:19] Jack Wrighton: I love that analogy. I love that you're just transcribing this character and certainly, reading it, you're aware of, there's these big themes and like ideas at play. Yeah, but because of the way we see it through Andy and you talk about that emotion, he has many things he's dealing with, it doesn't seem packed in the sort of pace, seems very, you follow Andy and these big sort of ideas of, coming in. That must be quite hard to manage as a writer because you know, you are looking at these kind of really big themes and ideas to wrestle with. That must be quite difficult. But you found doing it through Andy, you could just, it just came out or solidified.
[00:38:01] Stephen Buoro: Yes, and it just made the whole process actually much, much easier because otherwise some of these element, these themes would've seemed to be like digressions and all that. So and all these themes are all part of his experience of being, a 15 year old boy, being a Nigerian boy, and being a young African boy too, and especially and of being this post-colonial kind of product in quotes, like this postcolonial product and so there all those different facets of his life and the narrative just presented this. This very similar way, I think. Cause I think one, one of the interesting things I think Salman Rushdie said about the writing process, about, that's, the writer should seek to find, The most engaging, easiest, simplest way of telling story, I think. Sorry, that's a paraphrase. Whatever, but I think he said something along those lines, and so Andy's voice and Andy's perspective provided like this, the simplest, the most engaging the seamless way, the most seamless way of delivering this narrative, yeah, to the reader.
[00:39:08] Jack Wrighton: For those listening who, they've just seen the title, they haven't had a chance to pick up the book yet, how would you pass this book over to them? How would you pass Andy over to them? What? What's the synopsis? Give us a sort of a brief introduction to Andy Africa.
[00:39:24] Stephen Buoro: Okay. So in a few words I will say so the book is a coming of age story set in present day Nigeria and it's about, Andy Africa, who is smart and funny, 15 year old boy who is obsessed with blondes, whiteness, the west and who his true father is, and he's also ashamed of his uneducated mother, who is a photographer and this feelings of shame and obsession, become intensified when his life is solely destabilized by common violence. His story can be seen as a narrative, like in three ways, right? A narrative about the complicated relationship between a mother and a son, between two young people of different skin colors and classes.
That is Andy and Eilleen the white blonde that he falls in love with, and of course also a relationship about the complicated and dynamic between Africa and the west. For me what I really love about the book anyway, personally, what I love about the book, It's like an amalgam of things you wouldn't usually find together in the same book. Like on the one hand it's playful as well as funny and it's, I think it's also intelligent as well as also devastating, like the devastating things also happen in the book, and I think yeah, and this is all delivered through this very funny, playful voice of which we, which I found very engaging and which readers hopefully also find engaging and intriguing.
[00:40:55] Jack Wrighton: The humor does, stand out wonderfully because with the themes, it'd be very easy to go, this is going to be a very serious, book because you're dealing with these kind of huge, these huge things, and it really ties in with that Rushdie quote you gave of it creates that sense of, finding the, the best way to tell this story.
If you are okay, we'd like to end with a reading from the book. If you have a segment you like to read, then that would be fantastic.
[00:41:24] Stephen Buoro: Okay, brilliant. I'm going to read from the first chapter of my novel, the Five Sorroful Mysteries of Andy Africa. So this is just opening of the book.
Dear white people, I love white girls, especially blondes. Blondes who wear the hair in ponytails and once a week in pigtails. Is this a fetish?
I don't know. I'm just pretty sure I'll marry a white girl, a blonde. Do I think black girls are ugly? Of course not. That would mean mama is ugly and I'm not gonna take that shit from anybody. In fact, I haven't seen a blonde before, because this is Africa and they are minus 0.001 blondes here. Still, I love blondes. A strand of hair like a long sweet sun. Hair like ripples of water chasing each other. I swear. I can see my face reflected clearly on each strand. I go to bed hungry most nights. I sleep on my dead mats, in our dead living room, with dead electricity and with my last energies. I reach into my shorts and think about blondes and peace flows down my hearts to my stomach and down to my feet, and I'm filled and I sleep satisfied like a boy who is eating a dozen cheeseburgers. Though I don't know the taste of that shit and I sleep knowing the future is mine. A 15 year old African genius poet alter boy who lost blunts is not a criminal, not a racist, not a sellout, but is sweet, cool, pitiful African boy.
[00:43:32] Jack Wrighton: Stephen, thank you so much for that wonderful reading. The Five Sorrowful Mysteries of Andy Africa, the book is out there. It is available from mostly books in store and on our website or from wherever you decide to get your books from. Stephen thank you so much for joining us on Mostly Books Meets
[00:43:48] Stephen Buoro: Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for such a wonderful conversation.
[00:43:51] Jack Wrighton: My absolute pleasure, thank you. Mostly Books Meets is presented and produced by the book setting team at mostly books and award-winning bookshop located in Abingdon, Oxfordshire. All of the titles mentioned in this episode are available through our shop or your preferred local, independent. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our previous guests, which includes some of the most exciting voices in the world of books.
Thanks for listening and happy reading.