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Wired In: Kontek Conversations is for leaders who want to get technology right. From universities and healthcare systems to corporate enterprises, each episode delivers practical insights to help you navigate complex projects, avoid costly missteps, and design environments that truly connect people.
Through candid conversations with Kontek executives and industry experts, you’ll discover why projects succeed or fail, how to balance innovation with usability, and how bold ideas become reality. Along the way, we share perspectives on the evolution of AV technology, the impact of employee ownership, and the culture of accountability that drives lasting results.
With almost four decades of expertise, Kontek invites you to think bigger, dream bolder, and imagine what’s possible when technology and vision come together.
Brandon Giella: Hello, and
welcome to another episode of
Wired In: The Contech Podcast.
So today we are talking about the podcast
episode today isâ uh, the title is
First in the Room, Last on the Job Site.
And we really wanna talk to the,
uh, construction management side of
the process of AV and low voltage.
So if you are a project manager out there,
if you're an owner's rep, if you are
involved in setting the timeline for a
large construction project, particularly
whenever-- when it comes down to low
voltage and setting when those folks come
into a job site, this episode is for you.
So I want to talk to you, Marcus, about,
uh, what, um, what we're calling the,
the, uh, the go-last problem because you
guys come in at the very end of a project.
That's where your sequence to come
in which means oftentimes in these
timelines, in the project plans, you
are not thought about until the very
end, and that creates a problem.
And so we want to, to have this, you
know, group of folks to be thinking
about you are first in the room because
you can help with th-the strategy and
the planning and the sequencing of
these, these construction projects,
but you're the last to show up.
And so you guys need to be
thinking really clearly about the
bookends of this kind of project.
So talk to me about like what that means
for you and what advice you might have.
So talk to me about like you go last.
Why is that a problem?
And then we'll shift to talk about
going first as well in the room
Marques: Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, we see this, it is again,
extremely common, not just in new
construction and new build outs,
uh, sometimes in renovations, right?
Um, you may be changing
all of your furniture.
Your audio visual should
be last in the room.
So this is something that we
joke about it because it feels
almost obvious, but people miss.
If I'm hanging a display on a wall, are
the odds now that I'm changing a desk?
I am moving a couch.
I am putting up art.
What happens if I get too
close to that display?
We've literally had displays
where, um, someone cracked one.
They were at the last minute
putting in a bench below a display.
Some-something happened.
walk in the space later,
there's a crack in the display.
we caution folks, and we always say, "Hey,
listen, your AV is the last trade in."
Everything needs to be patched, painted.
Ideally, furniture is in place
because if I am routing cables through
the furniture, needs to be there.
Makes it a little hard to really
route it through it and really
finish it off and polish it off.
Um, otherwise, one of the biggest factors
we caution folks about wanting to be
aware of is also warranty agreements.
So when you first, you know,
are doing construction, right?
You're cutting, cutting drywall,
painting, all these things.
There
are a lot of particulates
that actually get in the air.
And so all electronics nowadays,
they're computers, they have fans.
So if you think about it, between
HVAC blowing, between these fans
running, it is sucking all of
this debris into the equipment.
And I've had job sites where we were
pressured to go in early, uh, you know,
because the schedule wasn't really
thought all the way out, and there
was, there was a request for us to
get in there early, install equipment.
Oh, we want a grand opening,
and we set it for this date.
You Like well, you shouldn't have
picked that date before you talked to
everyone about what needed to happen.
But sure enough, you know, we go back
in after we installed some things,
and probably a week later, we go back.
It is covered in construction dust.
We open up a closet where our rack was
stored Construction dust everywhere.
Covering the racks, the equipment, and
we're just sitting there like, "Man,
do you realize that say something
fails," if it goes to a manufacturer,
they crack it open, and the first
thing they see is construction dust,
they'll say, "Hey, well, this is not
operating in a clean environment.
You have now voided your warranty."
So not only do you risk damaging the
equipment earlier, shortening, shortening
the lifespan, but you also risk voiding
the warranty because it went in too soon.
So there's the obvious
damage you see, right?
We've seen cracked displays.
You know, we've seen,
you know, cables cut.
We had a site where the
conduit was crushed.
Our cables were in the conduit, and we
said, "Hey, uh, we don't think you're
ready yet, but sure, you know, as
pressure from the GC, we'll come out."
Well, now you have a change order, right?
And this is gonna be for anyone.
If you, if you slice our cabling, well,
now we have to pull all new cables.
Okay.
Well, they're still in the ceiling.
The electrician came
in, sliced them again.
It's like, guys, this is getting
really expensive for you because
we're gonna have to change order you.
This is anyone.
So you really want your AVâ¦
There are certain things that has to--
have to happen for inspection purposes.
That's fair.
But then all of your high-end, your
finishing pieces, your displays,
everything else needs to be the
last item going into that room
to make sure it's good to go.
and then just kinda testing along
the way because again, it's, it's
extremely expensive, and then it becomes
also a question about who owns it.
Like once I put it in your
building, I don't own it anymore.
I've installed it.
Does the GC own it now?
Does the owner?
Or if they haven't got their CEO, they
may say, "Well, we don't own it just yet
'cause we haven't taken over occupancy."
So now you have this other nebulous area.
Now it's a, it's a big game of
not it as far as dealing with the
repairs, the replacement cost.
So that's why you really want
your space to be finished.
You want construction to be finished.
We do not work alongside
any aspect of construction.
No audiovisual equipment should
be going in at the same time
that any construction happens
Brandon Giella: This, this sounds
like if you're about to spend a couple
hundred thousand dollars on AV, uh, this
sequence really matters going in last.
Marques: does.
It
Brandon Giella: But, um, but to,
you know, the point kind of what
we were talking about was, uh, in
order for that to happen, you need
to be coming into the room very,
very early to set that schedule.
Um, and so you're-- you kinda have these,
these more or less strategic conversations
with, uh, you know, contractors and, and
with these owners reps to talk through
the whole, like the holistic picture
of the design and the, the way that you
guys are kind putting the plans together
because that sequence is so important.
And so talk to me a little
bit about like howâ¦
What does being first in the room
look like for you to set that, to
make sure that when you show up
last it actually is gonna work?
Marques: Yeah, absolutely.
If we're, if we're gonna do a project or
we're consulting on it, any, any way we're
touching said project, really wanna be one
of the first teams talking to either the
owner's rep, construction management firm,
architect, whomever's gonna drive this.
Because, yes, there's a matter
of verifying and validating
the infrastructure's in place
and going to be ready, right?
Let's make sure you have your floor
boxes called out before you start
pouring concrete, 'cause to go back
later and core drill is insanely
expensive, so you want to avoid that.
But also, what is a realistic timeline?
You know, GCs, they don't have low
voltage specialists in their office.
So we'll see construction schedules
that get posted you know, if we
can catch it in time, we'll say,
"Hey, that's not practical."
You know, you may list AV install
happening at the same time as painting.
Absolutely not.
We've seen sites where equipment
got painted over, you're like,
"Well, how did you manage that?"
Because you just don't do it.
Let the painting finish
first, let it dry, we come in.
So that's a conversation because a
lot of times, you know, for whatever
reason, some of these schedules
can be fairly aggressive, but they
also need to be realistic, right?
Because everything is a cost.
If you wanna have an aggressive
schedule, okay, well, do you
wanna pay for overtime, right?
Because you can't just throw everyone
together, say like, "Okay, carpet, go.
Ceilings, go.
Paint, go.
AV, go."
It doesn't work that way.
So we really need to understand
when is the grand opening?
When is your first event?
You know, are you scheduling walkthroughs
while we're trying to do an installation?
You know, when is the
room going to be finished?
And that's one of the number one questions
we'll ask early on, but we also ask it
throughout th-uh, the project because
we build our schedule based on the
schedule we receive for the project.
So if you're working on a project
schedule, whenever it says all
construction activities are
finished, that's when all AV,
uh, pro-- Uh, processes need to
really start when it comes to that
final, you know, installation.
Pulling cables can happen,
um, some infrastructure,
uh, preparation can happen.
You know, maybe we put
up mounts for displays.
Maybe you're putting in speaker brackets.
But all of your final items should
be later, and that conversation needs
to happen as early as possible so we
can guide the conversation or even
just setting realistic expectations.
If you have a seven-story building,
you can't really expect to have it
completely functional in 10 days.
Is it possible?
Maybe, if you hire enough people and thr--
But there's, there's a process, right?
And everyone working at the same time
doesn't really matter because, yes,
you can do the physical installation.
Well, I also need to make sure I can
load the programming, I can do, you
know, any final field engineering,
any commissioning, any testing before
this gets turned over for usage.
So all of that discussion needs
to be taking place just to
establish should the schedule
actually look like for this project
Brandon Giella: I feel like you would
be a project manager's best friend.
Just like, "Let me call up Contact.
Let me talk to Marcus.
Help me with this schedule.
It's so key.
Marques: We try.
This
Brandon Giella: It's so key."
Marques: critical because
once you get into itâ¦
Oh man so then if you s-try to change
anything, you know, you're gonna be
stuck or are you now asking another
trade to try to speed up their work?
And let's be real in new construction
are so many delays and it's
not necessarily anyone's fault.
It is just material costs go up
okay they need issue a change
order or uh, a conflict anywhere.
It's a global supply chain right the
world is flat everything's interconnected
well your equipment is going to be
delayed because of a conflict that
knocked out the factory that makes
the gas needed for lasers to etch into
USB crazy who knows of that matters.
And we have seen a little bit of all
of it impact you know the timeliness
of a project I saw a project where they
couldn't get windows by the scheduled
date Well did every dependency get updated
cuz can't get the Windows So now we have
to see like what can we do when we can't
we do um so all of that matters needs
to be discussed taken into account as
you're really trying to flesh out Ok how
long will take us through this project
Brandon Giella: Okay, so as I see it
there are four major conversations
that you need to be have.
At least four and, and correct me
if you would add more here but, um,
the four are first understanding
the pathways and conduit like
where, where things gonna run.
Uh, structural considerations like
all, all the way from, you know,
what is the size of this room?
Is it how tall is it?
Where is the display going?
And that kind of thing.
But then also something that you've
mentioned before is, um, you know, does
the actual structure of the wall can
it support a thousand-pound display?
You know, 'cause if it can't then
you're gonna need all kinds ofâ¦
The, the spacing off the wall might need
brackets and like there's a whole bunch
of things to be thinking about like per
display not only per room and per floor
and you know all that sort of thing.
And then uh, power and panel
capacity th-that's important.
And then any kind of
environmental conditions.
So if there's like HVAC noise, uh, you
know thermal load on the, the racks, where
the racks are placed and how you can run,
you know wires in, in and out of that
rack or where they're placed per floor.
That's something you've mentioned
that they should be likely all in the
same corner if you can yeah, yeah,
yeah.
So okay so i-- Are those the four
major conversations and if so
could you kinda walk through those
for me to help me understand that
Marques: Yeah, yeah.
100%.
Those, those are in pretty well aligned.
There may be one off here and there,
but those are the core of what
we're gonna do on a project, right?
So starting with the infrastructure,
and if we tie it back to
phases, you know, this should
be getting planned in DD, right?
Design development.
Okay, I have a wall going up.
I have a room.
What's happening in the room?
First question.
What's hap- What, what are you doing?
Are you conferencing?
Are you video conferencing?
Are you just talking?
Am I presenting?
of that starts to tie into
how am I going to do it?
do I need?
Because now just in that conversation
and how you answer those questions,
I need a floor box, a wall box.
I need conduit in the floor to the wall.
I need conduit stubs
above the ceiling, right?
So that's how you start to flesh
out just the infrastructure alone.
know, what kind of
displays are we looking at?
Was-- Am I doing outlets for
electrical in the ceiling?
Do they need to be on the wall?
That's the difference between a
projection based system and a display.
all of that infrastructure needs
to be, you know, talked through,
designed, implemented, and it's,
you know, uh, a multiple areas
you're trying to cover here.
It's trying to make sure spaces in
the building, they're ready for what
you wanna do now or in the future.
for budgeting, if you're not
discussing this, there's no way
you've priced this correctly.
means once you get into the
project, you are now automatically
looking at increased costs to go
and put all this infrastructure
in because it wasn't captured.
that's mission critical.
Um, and again, should be extremely early
so that you can actually get an accurate
budget, you know, right off the bat.
Um, outside of that, you know, we
talk about, uh, I'm gonna jump to
panels because when I think panels
and electrical, I think, you know,
all of sudden that infrastructure
discussion right away Everything
requires electricity in our industry.
There's nothing I deal with that's
just passively, you know, working.
Nope, nope, that's not what it is.
So think about it like this, and I've
seen this happen, this is a real story.
Imagine you're in the middle
of a large presentation.
Someone next door starts to
vacuum, and your screen turns off.
I had this happen, it's a real story.
It happened to me in a--in front
of a, a project that had probably
300-some odd people, and it's because
no one had understood how the panels
and the electrical were actually
being connected, and we were right on
the edge with our power even though
we had submitted all of our needs.
There was just a mistake made, and a
circuit was tied in, and that happened.
And we were like, "What just happened
Someone next door was vacuuming, and
it
sent us over the edge in what
that circuit could support, and it
turned off part of a video wall.
So that was in live events.
Brandon Giella: My
Marques: if
Brandon Giella: gosh
Marques: Yeah, that's very
real, and it was painful.
So when you take that approach and you
put it into, you know, the installation
side of things, same concept, right?
If I'm doing an LED wall do
I need one 20 amp circuit?
Depending on the size of the wall,
I may be, I may need two, I may
need eight, Is that panel dedicated
and does it have enough power?
And that's just for my video wall.
Okay, well, what about my audio systems?
What about my, my switches?
Everything's gonna be
PoE, power over Ethernet.
Have I accounted for all this?
Am I doing the electrical calculation
to make sure the panel supports what
the client wants or what they need
and how they want the space to work?
then from there, have I done the thermal
calculation to make sure that wherever
I'm storing all this equipment, is the
cooling appropriate so that I don't
have this stuff sitting in a closet and
it's just essentially cooking itself?
You know, we've seen that happen where
something, all they left was a closet.
Okay, racks loaded up, fully populated,
you know, thirty-eight RU for those in
the AV space will know it right away.
Fully populated three-eight RU rack,
lots of things going, and when you
open the door, that closet is like
eighty-eight degrees or something crazy.
And we're like, "Hey, this is not good.
This is not good long term So, you
know, how are we addressing the doors?
Is there a louvered door?
Is there a return in that closet?
You know, all of that, um, went from
electrical to also an environmental
concern because they all connect, right?
So these things are one is driving
the next, which is driving the next.
So that's why, you know, the conversations
should happen early, and you just have
to plan on having them all at the same
time because each area is impacting
the next area of that conversation.
And it's really just you're going on a
journey, and you're just walking through
this system and all the requirements
and all the needs, and you're gonna
touch on all these various areas of
what needs to be happening, you know.
And then also one of the obvious
ones that you don't ever wanna
skip, the structural capacity and
capability of the building itself.
LED walls, we've done some
massive ones, and they can be
thousands of pounds, right?
Depending on how big you're
getting, is your wall structurally
rated to deal with that?
When we're talking about flying,
uh, call them, uh, audio arrays.
So they are speakers.
If you've ever gone to a
concert, you've seen them.
The stacks of speakers that are
hanging, and they look kinda curved.
They have a very specific
use case and, uh, function.
They're heavy, right?
If you get a large enough stack,
you may be talking four hundred
pounds, five hundred pounds
suspended from a few points.
was that factored into the
capabilities of the ceiling?
Was there structural rigging
points put in place that could
actually support this load?
You know, if I'm mounting it to a wall,
there's shearing forces and all these
other things you have to factor in.
And a common, you know, methodology is
you need to calculate five times the
weight of whatever device you're gonna
mount to make sure you can account for
those kind of forces that are gonna
be pulling out and down, on this wall.
So all of that needs to be worked
through that discussion to make
sure you cover everything from,
okay, is my infrastructure there,
meaning pathways and connectivity.
Is the building infrastructure
ready and capable of supporting it?
Are these, uh, additional systems in place
going to be able to support this as well?
So all of that needs to be
happening around the same time
Brandon Giella: So you, you can't just put
one of those, uh, displays in the drywall?
That ain't gonna work?
Marques: Nah.
Brandon Giella: Okay.
Marques: Not
Brandon Giella: What-- Why youâ¦
Marques: Everybody at home goes to
Lo-, uh, Home Depot or wherever, gets
their little drywall anchors and thinks
Brandon Giella: Yeah, right?
Marques: nah
Brandon Giella: Uh, what you were talking
about the, the thermal load and the
rack, I, I saw this, uh, data center
video on like how they, they work, and
it talked about, I think if I got w-what
it was saying, was like one of those
million dollar Nvidia GPU server racks.
It was like, you know, kind
of one of those, those big
ones that go in a data center.
They can throw off as much heat as
like 60, uh, like space heaters.
And if you put that in a confined
space, it can get -- It was basically
saying like, "Yeah, you could cook it."
So it needs a lot of cooling
and the process of doing that
and all that kinda stuff.
I was like, dang.
Anyway, it was talking about like
the physics of how that works.
Like you talk so much about like
physics doesn't lie, you know?
It's just math.
Marques: See
Brandon Giella: And it just the, how
the compute power is working and,
and i-it was fascinating anyway.
Marques: Yeah, and
Brandon Giella: I don't
understand that stuff
Marques: systems, uh, it comes
up because we'll do something
small where we're in a room.
We have a small credenza or something.
Okay cool, did anyone think about
okay how are we gonna ventilate this?
Do you put holes in the bottom
'cause all these things fans.
Okay well, well where are you going
to exhaust it too, Otherwise you open
a cabinet and everything is insanely
hot just because there's no, there's
no airflow, there's no circulation.
So even as small system it's an issue
like yes it magnifies as you get into
larger systems but even your smaller
systems will suffer from, you know
thermal issues if you're just sitting
them running them all the time when
they're just basically overheating
Brandon Giella: You know, Apple released
their, uh, the new Mac Mini, uh, and
Ma- Mac Mini and Mac Studio, uh, uh, uh,
computers, and I was-- And they spent
so much time talking about the cooling.
But I think talking to you and like
as I'm learning, I'm understanding
more of why they do that.
Because if you're gonna have that kind
of, you know, the, the Mac, the M5 Ultra
chip that does so much compute power and
it does all this stuff, well, you gottaâ¦
It's gotta be cool.
You have to cool it.
Marques: to cool.
Brandon Giella: So yeah,
that's fascinating.
Marques: Otherwise, right, taking
that example, if you don't cool
it, you're getting the throttling.
Oh, my web
Brandon Giella: Yeah
Marques: opening slowly.
I'm trying to render a vi- a video.
It's like stalling.
I can't scrub my timeline.
Okay, now imagine that in
AV, it directly translates.
So all of a sudden I'm trying to
conference and my video's getting
jittery, my mics are actingâ¦
People always say strange, right?
That's the, "Yeah, something's
strange with my AV system."
All right, it's, it's cooking.
It's, it can't cool
Brandon Giella: Wow.
Okay.
Uh, okay.
I have more questions on that, but last
question for you to, to wrap things up
real quick is if you were to talk to a
construction project manager or owner's
rep right now, you're not talking to
me, you're talking to them, i-i and kind
of framed in like three conversations.
So very first conversation you're ever
having with them discussing a project
maybe in the sales process, and then
you're in the room first, so that first
like, "Hey, we are working on this,"
and we're having our first like major
conversation about this project, and
then the conversation you would have
before you're coming into install.
What are the things that you would
say to them at each of those points?
Marques: Yeah, I keep it, you
know, simple and high level
really because the individual
conversations get very detailed.
But first and foremost, what are we doing?
This starts everything, right?
What
Brandon Giella: Yeah
Marques: What are, what are
the-- What's the vision, right?
What are, what are the dreams?
What are we trying to accomplish?
That will drive every discussion
about the needs analysis or the,
you know, functionality of the
system, mission critical right
off the bat, what are we doing?
Then okay, where are we doing it, right?
Because now I can figure out
what rooms are getting what.
I can look at the spaces, I can
dig in, I can see how things
are gonna need to function.
It will allow us to understand and drive
that discussion about infrastructure
and additional requirements.
And then when do you wanna be done?
Like, when do you really want to be done?
Not, not what you're saying
to me is your, your hope.
When is your first event scheduled?
Like, when are you doing anything in
this space and it needs to be working?
Because then we're going to take that date
and start to work backwards because we'll
know like, okay, well, that means your AV
systems need to be installed, you know,
at least two weeks or a week before that.
So user training, work through all
the spaces, get out any gremlins.
We'll then back that up.
Well, now that's when construction needs
to be complete in all those spaces and
then work backwards from there to when
you actually start everything else.
So that's it.
It's, you know, what are we doing?
Where are we doing it?
When do you want it to be ready
Brandon Giella: What, where, and when
Marques: There you go
Brandon Giella: Elegantly said, 'cause
you've done this about 1,000 times.
I love it.
I love it.
Marcus, thank you so much.
This is very, very helpful insight
and, uh, and I know you, you get
to, you know, pull in a lot of this
experience and wisdom when you're
talking about these large projects with
these, these construction managers.
So, um, thank you for sharing with
us these conversations that you
have, and we will see you next time