“You call it luck. I call it destiny.” Talking About John Huston’s The Man Who Would Be King with our guest, actor Patrick Fabian
In this engaging episode of Movies We Like, hosts Andy Nelson and Pete Wright are joined by special guest Patrick Fabian to discuss John Huston's epic adventure film, The Man Who Would Be King. Fabian, known for his roles in numerous TV shows and films, including his standout performance as Howard Hamlin in Better Call Saul, shares his passion for this classic movie and how it inspired him to pursue a career in acting.
Throughout the episode, Fabian delves into his early days as an aspiring actor, from his time as a band president in high school to his decision to pursue a master's degree in theater at Cal State Long Beach. He also shares anecdotes about his experiences working on various television shows and the valuable lessons he learned along the way, such as the importance of persistence and adaptability in the face of rejection.
As the conversation turns to The Man Who Would Be King, Fabian expresses his admiration for the film's sense of adventure, the strong bond between the lead characters, and the captivating performances by Sean Connery and Michael Caine. The hosts and guest explore the movie's themes, its representation of colonialism, and the enduring appeal of its grand storytelling.
The Man Who Would Be King is a timeless adventure that continues to enthrall audiences with its sweeping narrative, unforgettable performances, and exotic locales. Andy Nelson, Pete Wright, and Patrick Fabian's engaging discussion about the film and Fabian's fascinating career journey make this episode of Movies We Like a must-listen for fans of classic cinema and those interested in the world of acting. Join them as they celebrate the enduring power of storytelling and the indelible impact that a single film can have on one's life and career.
Welcome to Movies We Like • Patrick Fabian • The Man Who Would Be King
About Patrick Fabian
About The Man Who Would Be King
Wrapping Up
“You call it luck. I call it destiny.” Talking About John Huston’s The Man Who Would Be King with our guest, actor Patrick Fabian
In this engaging episode of Movies We Like, hosts Andy Nelson and Pete Wright are joined by special guest Patrick Fabian to discuss John Huston's epic adventure film, The Man Who Would Be King. Fabian, known for his roles in numerous TV shows and films, including his standout performance as Howard Hamlin in Better Call Saul, shares his passion for this classic movie and how it inspired him to pursue a career in acting.
Throughout the episode, Fabian delves into his early days as an aspiring actor, from his time as a band president in high school to his decision to pursue a master's degree in theater at Cal State Long Beach. He also shares anecdotes about his experiences working on various television shows and the valuable lessons he learned along the way, such as the importance of persistence and adaptability in the face of rejection.
As the conversation turns to The Man Who Would Be King, Fabian expresses his admiration for the film's sense of adventure, the strong bond between the lead characters, and the captivating performances by Sean Connery and Michael Caine. The hosts and guest explore the movie's themes, its representation of colonialism, and the enduring appeal of its grand storytelling.
The Man Who Would Be King is a timeless adventure that continues to enthrall audiences with its sweeping narrative, unforgettable performances, and exotic locales. Andy Nelson, Pete Wright, and Patrick Fabian's engaging discussion about the film and Fabian's fascinating career journey make this episode of Movies We Like a must-listen for fans of classic cinema and those interested in the world of acting. Join them as they celebrate the enduring power of storytelling and the indelible impact that a single film can have on one's life and career.
Welcome to Movies We Like. Each episode, Andy Nelson and Pete Wright invite a film industry veteran to discuss one of their favorite films. What makes a movie inspirational to a cinematographer or a costume designer? Listen in to hear how these pros watch their favorite films. Part of The Next Reel family of film podcasts.
Andy Nelson:
Welcome to movies we like, part of the True Story FM Entertainment podcast network. I'm Andy Nelson, and that over there is Pete Wright. This is Pete Wright. On today's episode, we have invited actor Patrick Fabian to talk about John John Houston's the man who would be king, a movie he likes. Patrick, welcome to the show.
Patrick Fabian:
Hey, man. How are you doing? Thanks for having me on. We
Andy Nelson:
are thrilled to have you, thrilled to talk about this particular movie. John Houston's a director, that we love. We've, you know, done series on John Houston. He's just a a fantastic director, and this was a film that neither Pete nor I had seen before. And so we were very excited to get it on the list.
Patrick Fabian:
Wow. Well, that you know what? Guess what? That's okay. I'm an old man, so it it it literally is the movie that made me say I wanna be an actor.
Patrick Fabian:
That's why I chose it.
Pete Wright:
Okay. So well, that's why we wanna talk about it. But when did you how old were you when you first saw it? Because I we're we're all men of a certain age, Patrick. I mean, don't don't artificially age yourself.
Pete Wright:
Alright? My beard's as white as your head.
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. You know what? Fair enough. This is a podcast. Right?
Patrick Fabian:
No photographs. I was probably 14 14 or 15 when I saw it. And, my friend Scott Atkinson, who was going to high school with me, said, oh, you should you should see this movie. We should watch this movie. And so we did.
Patrick Fabian:
And I had, you know, I I I had been in the arts, and I had been in band, and I had been in chorus, and done all that stuff. And and I was in high school, I guess, 14, maybe not, maybe middle school. All I know for sure is that when I saw that, I was like, wow. The scope of it, the landscape, you know, I'm a I'm a little shit kicker from Central Pennsylvania. And all of a sudden, they're showing exotic lands, exotic things.
Patrick Fabian:
There's a couple of, there's a naked butt shot of an exotic brown skinned girl, and I was like, wow. That looks like Linda Lucas, you know, and who was a girl in my class. And, so all that Shout
Pete Wright:
out
Pete Wright:
to Lanta.
Patrick Fabian:
Lanta. Lanta. God knows where she is. You know? Lawsuit incoming.
Patrick Fabian:
And, Yeah. Right. And and it was you know, I just I just watched it again last night before the podcast because I wanted to sort of reclaim it because I hadn't seen it in a number of years. And it's problematic, obviously, in in a lot of ways in the lens of looking through things now in some respects, but I think what it retains is what it is advertised, a sense of adventure, a sense of buddy it's Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid for Brits in in in some respects. You know?
Patrick Fabian:
It's it's all about buddy. It's about man bonding. You know, it's a there's a dearth of women in it. I get it. It's also English versus being a colonial empire in India.
Patrick Fabian:
It's got lots of the things that make you sort of raise your eyebrows and go, you can't you can't act like that, except I saw that. And when it ended with that final bit, I was like, wow. I didn't know if I wanted to be Peachy. I didn't know if I wanted to be Daniel or if I wanted to be Rudyard Kipling. I just knew I wanted to be one of those 3 guys because it seemed like they were having the time of their life.
Patrick Fabian:
And it was his exotic locations, it was this world I'd never thought of, and I was like, oh, the key to getting there is to be an actor.
Pete Wright:
All the little boys say, I wish I could grow up to be Rudyard Kipling.
Patrick Fabian:
Well, but that's Christopher Plummer. Those are 3.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Patrick Fabian:
For a 14 year old boy in Pennsylvania, those are 3 fully grown capable men. Capital m.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Patrick Fabian:
And you and they weren't afraid to be loud and articulate. I mean, I love hearing Connery and, and Michael kane yell at one another because they bite off every single word. Nothing is, you know, nothing is underplayed or under their tongue. It is all out there, and I loved that.
Andy Nelson:
They're absolutely big. Well, okay. So this, before we go too far down the road of of this, great film, let's kinda follow this thread. You talked about how this was the film you saw, and you're like, oh, I I wanna do that. I wanna be an actor.
Andy Nelson:
So that was kind of where you got the the the acting bug. What next? Like, did you did you start looking for theater, like or or per ways to perform? Like, what how did, you begin that journey?
Patrick Fabian:
I guess the best way to say is I was band president in high school. You can fill in the blanks from there. You know what I'm saying?
Pete Wright:
That says a lot.
Andy Nelson:
All we needed to say about that.
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And but in my school, being in band was not a a a geeky thing. Well, it was a geeky thing, but it was also a cool thing because we won lots of awards. We had a lot of musicians, a lot of people.
Pete Wright:
You're in the good band.
Patrick Fabian:
I was in the good band. And it was really fun, and I had a great time. And I was doing that. I was doing theater. I was doing, you know, musicals as well and plays in high school.
Patrick Fabian:
And all three of those disciplines revolve around, the collective. All three of those things are all about creating a singular piece of work from a whole bunch of different parts. And it's not any surprise to me that I want to continue doing that sort of thing. You know, I want my my my goal was to be a a 1st chair pit trombonist in a broad wave pit band. That's what I wanted to do at first.
Patrick Fabian:
Wow. Okay. But then I got up on stage, and I kind of like not having the horn in front of my mouth, and I found that to be kind of freeing and fun. So I went to college for it. You know, I went to Penn State University to get a a degree in acting with yes.
Patrick Fabian:
We have both my parents who are like, what? They give degrees in this? What did your what were
Pete Wright:
your parents? What what were they what were they trying to role model for you?
Patrick Fabian:
My mom and dad were the first people from their respective branches of family to even go to college. So they put a pretty high premium on making sure they could help provide college for us. My brother went off to get a a degree in political science, and then I come along and I'm like, I wanna be an actor. And, you know, I have kids now, and I can't believe how cool my parents were about that. What they did was steer me towards a larger university just in case a 17 year old boy would change his mind.
Patrick Fabian:
And Yeah, sure. You know, and I have to say this, hats off to mom and dad Fabian who still live in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. Dad's 91. My mom's 86. They never said no when it came to me saying, I wanna do this.
Patrick Fabian:
They said, we don't know about this, so let's find people who do. We believe in college, so let's go to college. So I went to college, and I got a I I got a degree in theater. And, and my dad said, you know, now what? What do you do with that?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. This was great. We've been so supportive. Right? Now show us it was worth it.
Patrick Fabian:
Every year, you know they were just, like, waiting for me to come home at Christmas and be like, I don't wanna do this anymore, and it never happened. They saw, like, the worst productions in the world. They would drive up to state college after work on a Friday to watch me hold a spear in a bad production of Hamlet. You know what I'm saying? And god love them.
Patrick Fabian:
Real salt of the earth folk, I have to say, really, really, because, without them giving me permission and not getting in the way, who knows? But then I then then I skipped off and I went to Cal State Long Beach. I got myself a master's degree in theater.
Andy Nelson:
Wow. Look at that.
Patrick Fabian:
No. But guess what? My father said the same thing. Wow.
Pete Wright:
What I gotta I gotta ask, though. What is it that makes that that causes you to to make that pivot to decide, I I want to continue my education and not just hit the bricks?
Patrick Fabian:
Because I followed a redhead to, New York City on the summer of 86, and I'd lived in Queens with a bunch of other actors. I've ridden the subways. I had waited tables. And as a matter of fact, I wasn't gonna go back to my senior year. I had a job.
Patrick Fabian:
The season was coming up, and I'm like, what am I doing? So I called a professor at Penn State. Shout out shout out to Michael Connelly, who's now, a a a emeritus professor at SMU, and my dad. So I called both of them to say, by the way, I'm not going back to finish my degree. I'm already in New York smoking cigarettes with a girl.
Patrick Fabian:
I'm good. And my father wrote me a letter, one of the only letters he ever wrote me, and he said, I don't know about your business, but I know in life, having a college degree tells at least somebody across the table who might be hiring you that you know how to finish something. And then he just made a list of things to consider. You do what you want. Keep in mind, my father, Iman, are paying for college.
Patrick Fabian:
And so I'm just cavalierly saying, screw that.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I'm done.
Patrick Fabian:
And my college professor said, oh, good. You're in New York. You got a girl. You're getting ready to go. The season's coming up.
Patrick Fabian:
That sounds great. Good for you, man. Way to hit the books. He goes, oh, but here's the thing. You're gonna miss my class this year.
Patrick Fabian:
You know what? You're gonna miss this thing coming up too. Well, let me ask you this, are you gonna change that much in 9 months? Are you no longer gonna be like a young engineer, you know, young needy man? I was like, well, no problem.
Patrick Fabian:
He goes, oh, okay. How much is acting class? I mean, because you're still gonna go to acting class. Right? And I'm like, oh, that hadn't occurred to me.
Patrick Fabian:
And he goes, we have to pay for that. So how's your job? And anyways, he just soft pebble it and said, well, good luck, man. Good luck. And hung up.
Pete Wright:
Sounds like you've got the world in your hands. Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
And so they let me sit with that for a little bit. And so I came back around and called my dad and said, I think we're gonna go back. You know what he said? Okay. That's it.
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. Called my professor back, said, hey, I'll see you in September. He goes, great. Nothing ever said. But to answer your question, I didn't go to New York because everybody else was going to New York.
Patrick Fabian:
All my all my friends who I was going who I went to school with were all gonna go to New York and be artists, and I had already done that a little bit, not really being an artist. But, there was another gentleman, Tom Forum, I'm really getting history on here, but he was a graduate student and he took me aside. And he put me in took me to a mirror and he goes, what do you see? And I was like, I see, you know, an artist, a bull and he was like he goes, I I see a pretty good looking young man. And then I said, oh.
Patrick Fabian:
And he goes, I'd go west if I were you. And I'm like, why? He goes, because if you're young and somewhat pretty, who knows? You might get lucky and become a movie star. And nobody at acting class talked like that.
Patrick Fabian:
Nobody suggested that dirty thing.
Pete Wright:
Talked like was a prophet in the voice of Truman Capote? My god, Patrick. Well, you
Patrick Fabian:
know what? He would love that. I will call him and let him know you did that. Yeah. So, so I went.
Patrick Fabian:
So I took a graduate school ride over to Cal State Long Beach, a 2 year program with no intention like, if I didn't like school, I was out of there. Los Angeles is right there, so it really was a ticket to get out there. But as it turned out, instead of holding the spear like I did in undergraduate school when you're a graduate student, you got the lead roles. So I basically had 2 years of, repertory. Did a whole bunch of plays, played the lead, and then got out with 6 years of college education to be an actor under my belt and I went to Los Angeles.
Patrick Fabian:
And and Los Angeles said, who cares?
Pete Wright:
Okay. Good
Andy Nelson:
for you. That that seems to be the general general first line of Los Angeles.
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. Yeah. So I I mean, that so that's what got me. But along the way, you know, you you wanna tie it back to the movie. Stuff that I saw along the way, other theater pieces, other actors, I was in New York.
Patrick Fabian:
I saw theater in New York. I saw what people could do and on a high professional level, but watch we're still going to the movies. This is before watching movies on phones. It's a collective communal thing. You go to a big theater, you sit down, you watch the thing, and I was like, that's what I wanna do.
Patrick Fabian:
And at the time, you wanna do that? You go to New York, you go to LA, or maybe Chicago or Dallas, But I wasn't interested in going to regional theater. I I I wanted to go, hey, Tom Forrell. Yeah. That could be a movie star.
Patrick Fabian:
Let's go. Lucky. Let's go.
Andy Nelson:
Well and then you you end up you really start working pretty heavily in TV. Like, a lot of episodes here and there of a whole bunch of different shows, just a whole variety of things. What was kind of your thinking process? Was it just like, I'm gonna take everything that comes my way, or were you starting to, like I I wanna start really pushing into this particular thing? Like, how how did you start finding your focus?
Patrick Fabian:
Well, first of all, I'm still looking for that. And when you bring this up, I immediately get anxiety because I'm like, oh, right. You can shape a career if you pay attention, but I had my head up my ass. I was running around. You know?
Andy Nelson:
And Everybody every that's everybody until they're, like, late in their career. Like, wait a minute.
Patrick Fabian:
What what what have I been doing?
Pete Wright:
What have I been doing?
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. You know, I was waiting to I was trying to get an agent, and I was trying to get a a a a union card and and all that stuff. And, and you're running around and it does feel like a lottery, because it kinda is. And it does feel like you have to know someone to get somewhere, which it kinda is, but what those 6 years of education did for me, if nothing else, and this is why I I was used to not getting the job. I was used to auditioning and not getting it.
Patrick Fabian:
That was just and I was told that from the very beginning that's that's the muscle you have to have the most of. No. We're not hiring you. Why? It doesn't even matter.
Pete Wright:
It doesn't matter.
Patrick Fabian:
They're just not you're not the answer to this these people with the money in the casting, it's not you're not the answer. So it was always a numbers game in my brain, and I had a professor in, at Long Beach who basically gave us sort of a 5 year plan with really low expectations. Like, at the end of 5 years of doing this list of things of what actors do in LA, you should probably have gotten a paid job by that point. That's 5 years. So in my mind, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do all these other things for at least 5 years before I start to think about it.
Patrick Fabian:
I ended up doing a Shakespeare play in Los Angeles, I got my equity card by doing it for 2 summers in a row. Thank you, Ben Donenberg, because they made me an assistant stage manager and I got a part. And when I did that part, somebody came to see the leads in the show. And those agents of the leads stopped by afterwards, and Jean St. Calvary handed me her card and said, do you have an agent?
Patrick Fabian:
I said, no. She goes, call me tomorrow. So I called her and she goes, you don't have a resume, you don't have anything, but I can send you out. Do you know where Fox Studios are? No.
Patrick Fabian:
I do not. And so, she gave me an audition, and I drove over to Fox for the first time. I went on to a studio lot for the first time, 4th floor parking garage or above. And then I walked through the studios. I mean, the studios.
Patrick Fabian:
I'd never seen them.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Right.
Patrick Fabian:
And I go audition for a thing called Doogie Howser, which was this young kid, Neil Patrick Harris' first show.
Pete Wright:
Oh oh, please, Patrick.
Patrick Fabian:
And I walk into the room and there is, and this is how it's been for the last 30 years, 20 of me. 10 are a little bit younger, 10 are a little bit older, prettier teeth, a little bit We're all this, right?
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
And we're sitting there and I'm like, Woah. Woah. Woah. And you can hear everything and it's busy and there's an assistant, and they call my name and they go in the room. And this is the casting director, never met her before.
Patrick Fabian:
But I had my sides and because of my training, I was cold, I had to memorize, I knew what I was doing, I made choices, I knew how to break out a script. And so I sit there and I was like, Am I reading with you? She goes, Yeah. So there's my scene partner. And then, you know, there's a producer, there's a writer, there's a director, this is old school and people are still in the room.
Patrick Fabian:
But it didn't matter because I'm reading with her. So I read with her, they adjusted me. I know I've taken note. Okay. And I did it again.
Patrick Fabian:
And then I went outside, they went outside to a phone booth, a full length phone booth, and I put quarters in and called Jane c Calvary at Writers and Artists. And I said I said, I think I got it. And god bless her. She goes she goes, I bet you did. But just in case, what are you doing tomorrow?
Patrick Fabian:
I have an audition for you at Paramount. And of course I did.
Andy Nelson:
That's so sweet. Bless her.
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. I didn't get the job. But I tell you what, 8 auditions in, I did. I did get the job. Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
And then I got another job. And then I got another job. And then I finally booked a pilot within like two and a half months of having these people actually putting me out there. And I quit my waiting tables job, and I waited for the pilot to get picked up and make me rich.
Pete Wright:
What was the pilot?
Patrick Fabian:
The pilot. Well, the pilot was called Rise and Shine. Judge Reinhold? Kathy Kinney? Some some ringer from New York.
Patrick Fabian:
I forget what his name was, and it was a half hour show. Falsy Brand, the guys who who created Northern Exposure had done it, and so they were riding high.
Pete Wright:
How could it fail?
Patrick Fabian:
How could it how about this? Now that you could have failed, and I met the I met this guy later to tell him the story. Warren Littlefield, who ran NBC at the time, we're doing a a a 4 camera live sitcom pilot taping. I had a dressing room. They gave me flowers.
Patrick Fabian:
It was amazing. And so I'm there, and we're doing it. It's kinda like doing a play, which I had done bunches of, so it was really fun. And they're laughing. Warren Littlefield puts his arm around me halfway through it.
Patrick Fabian:
He goes, oh my god. I love this show. It's gonna run for years. You can go buy a house. So I quit my job the next day.
Patrick Fabian:
What more did I need? The president of the network told me to go. You know? That's outstanding in hindsight. Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
I did. And and then, of course, like, 2 weeks later, I called that wonderful woman, Jean St. Calvary, and I'm like, hey. So when it when when are we gonna when can I buy my house, basically? You're like, when are we going to do?
Andy Nelson:
You're right.
Patrick Fabian:
And this is when they used to shoot, like, a 130 pilots for 20 slots. And and she just goes, oh, oh, honey. That's not gonna happen. That's not going any further. But it was a good job.
Patrick Fabian:
Don't worry, we'll get you something else. And she hung up and I was like, oh.
Andy Nelson:
Oh. Wow.
Patrick Fabian:
And I said to my roommate, what am I supposed to do? And he goes, I guess I guess you're supposed to get another acting job. And it wasn't until that moment that I realized it and this is now mom and dad. It's not the destination, children. It is the journey.
Andy Nelson:
There it is.
Pete Wright:
It is the journey.
Andy Nelson:
There it is. Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
But it is. I was like, no. No. True. It isn't a destination.
Patrick Fabian:
It it it is the thing that goes along. And to your point, a quick turn on my resume, I've been passed around town pretty heavily. I've done a whole lot. I know I haven't said no to much because, well, circumstances you like. I like to work.
Patrick Fabian:
I think there's always benefit in finding. I haven't curated myself into becoming somebody. You know, when I was a young actor in my twenties, we all wanted to be like, you know, Brad Pitt or James Spader. And, I remember James Spader had a quote at one point. I think Brad Pitt had just done Thelma and Louise and he shows that body of his.
Patrick Fabian:
James Spader was quoted as saying, oh, fucking Brad Pitt ruined it for us all. Now now we have to go to the gym. Now we have to drink green juice. And I'm just thinking like, oh, I wanna be James Spader. I wanna be Brad Pitt.
Patrick Fabian:
I still do, but the the problem is is that that role's already taken, and they're still playing it really, really well. And along the way, you watch people break and go. You know, everybody who got on Friends became the Friends. Everybody who came, ER became the ER people. I read for both those shows.
Patrick Fabian:
But so did, you know, 40 or 50 or a 100, 200 other guys.
Pete Wright:
And yet, Patrick, like, this is the the I don't know. It's the blessing and a curse of your career. Right? I look at just what's credited on your IMDB page, and it's a 162 titles.
Patrick Fabian:
Wow.
Pete Wright:
And the result of that is you are in that sweet spot of celebrity where I'll bet a lot of people recognize you, and they have no clue from what.
Patrick Fabian:
I call I call it the Saint Louis Airport thing. You're in the Saint Louis Airport, and you're trying you're just trying to get to your next plane or get a burger or something, and somebody goes, oh oh, hey. Hi. Hi. Did did you sell me something once?
Patrick Fabian:
No.
Andy Nelson:
I'm like,
Patrick Fabian:
No. No. No, we didn't. And then you're standing there and it's sort of awkward and and then you you wanna relieve them and you go, well, I, I'm an actor. You might know me from something.
Patrick Fabian:
And they go, oh, oh, what is it? And now it's on me.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Right. Suddenly, it's your job.
Patrick Fabian:
In the Saint Louis Airport and I'm trying to, like, do a Terminator on these people, thinking what their age is, what they might have seen, and I go, Star Trek Voyager? And then they go, nope. And now we're playing a game. Now we're playing a game where I'm gonna go through my resume until I can figure out what it is for them, because I'm so broken. I need them to know.
Patrick Fabian:
And eventually and eventually, we get down to something like, let's see. I did a I I did a a sort of basically a cameo on 2 of a kind with the Olsen twins. That's it. That's
Andy Nelson:
it. I fucking
Patrick Fabian:
know you were coach Daryl. I'm like, what?
Andy Nelson:
Wow. You never know. You never know.
Pete Wright:
But I am that has to have gotten easier since, Saul.
Patrick Fabian:
Oh, I get shout outs for Howard now. That's what I get called all the time. People call me Howard in passing. And we were just walking past the National Portrait Gallery here in London. We were going to see a show the other night.
Patrick Fabian:
And some guy walked past, and he just went, Howard Hamlin? I'm like, take the flesh. Just keep walking. I knew I knew things had shifted a little bit. I think it was about season 3 of Better Call Saul.
Patrick Fabian:
I happened to be in New York City and I happened to be in Central Park walking. And some guy was jogging on that inner ellipse and he saw me And he looked at me and he goes, Howard, you get off Kim's back. You understand me? And I waved him. He goes, I'm not kidding.
Patrick Fabian:
He didn't break stride. He didn't take his headphones off. He just yelled at me like a New Yorker and kept going
Andy Nelson:
on. Wow.
Pete Wright:
Of course.
Patrick Fabian:
And at that point, I kinda was like, oh, I've made it.
Andy Nelson:
There it is. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Who knew that would be the moment?
Andy Nelson:
And Better Call Saul, I mean, that's, you know, a fantastic show from this really creative, world. But, I mean, it's it's a much more recent thing. Looking back on your career, thinking of all the different things you have been a part of, was there a point where you performed in a show or a film or something where when you walked off of it, you were like, I just I feel like I so completely connected with that character. I I did exactly what I set out to do. You know, the I was in a great groove with the director, and you see the finished piece, and it's like, ah, that's it.
Andy Nelson:
That was perfect. Like, do you have can you remember where that first moment was where you're like, that was it?
Patrick Fabian:
I don't know. It it's funny. A lot of things that you think are feeling good at the moment, you look at them and you're like, oh, that's that's not what I thought was going on. And that could be any number of factors by the way. That could be, oh, the script isn't what I thought it was or the lighting or the direction.
Patrick Fabian:
You can you can point the finger everywhere. But rarely do I feel like, oh, yeah. And then I look at it and I'm like, oh, yeah. Last Exorcism came off real well. That was fun.
Patrick Fabian:
Some people call that. Yeah. But you know, for the most part, when you end up being a guest star for your career, you plug it into other people's things all the time. So you really have to go in with the notion of like, what am I servicing here? It's, not about me.
Patrick Fabian:
They're gonna come around on my shoulder anyways for my big speech so they can see the reaction to the guy who's interrogating me or the girl who's interrogating me. Learn that fast, I was like, oh, this is my close-up. No, it's not. They're going to come on your face for a second and then they're going to cut to the person they're paying a $1,000,000 to. That's what they're going to do.
Pete Wright:
You get to shine not too bright.
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. Yeah. A bit. I'm not complaining. It's been a great and varied career.
Patrick Fabian:
I'm a working actor. That's a rare breed in itself. You know, I had a lot of fun along the way too, basking in people's glow, you know, working on friends, working on Will and Grace. Easily, 2 of the funnest nights I have ever had as an actor. And I probably only had about 5 or 6 lines or setups in the whole evening.
Patrick Fabian:
But to be a part of that energy and watch that thing work, watch that machine roll. You know, it's like seeing the Stones in their prime or your favorite band in their prime and stuff like that. Like, they were on fire and you're like oh, I get to be standing in that right now. And that feels great, that's a rush. And then consequently when you find yourself working on something like Saul there are moments where probably after about 2 or 3 seasons where I finally felt like I deserved it or belonged impostor syndrome always there but I started to feel a little more comfortable because everything was sort of I I knew the DP, I knew the crew, I knew my fellow actors, and it really felt like I belonged.
Patrick Fabian:
And then there'd be moments where all of a sudden it really let fly with, like, Rey or Bob, and there'd be that wonderful moment where you'd sort of look around at one another and be like, I I think that might have been good.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
And then you see it, and you're like, oh, shit. They shot the crap out of this. It's it looks good. And you get and you get pry you get happy about that. I've even been plenty of crap.
Patrick Fabian:
Again, IMDB will show you. There's a lot of chuff in there. But I don't regret any of the jobs I've taken. That's for sure. They've all had their charms and their and and and their and, you know, especially when you're starting out, I always give young young actors entering in, you know, this notion of, like, well, I'm gonna do this and I'm only gonna do this.
Patrick Fabian:
I don't, man, it's a crooked line in life no matter what, particularly in this career. And anymore, so much stuff is out there. I don't think anybody's really dinging dinging you, but a career can't be shaped and whatnot. But I always like to say yes because, yeah, you did that thing for the weekend, for that short. And it was a terrible script and the director yelled in through chairs and it wasn't very fun.
Patrick Fabian:
But guess what? The writer saw that you tried to make sense of her words. And in 5 years, when she gets better, she's gonna remember And be like, Oh, they actually got it. You don't know. No one said, Oh, I can't wait to go make this piece of shit so it's shitty.
Patrick Fabian:
Right?
Andy Nelson:
Yeah, right.
Patrick Fabian:
People want it to be their best. And even when you have all the elements, it doesn't work. That's kind of the miracle of it anyways too. You put on paper, we're all gonna get Oscars. And then you see it, you're like, oh no.
Patrick Fabian:
I don't I can't even place Y, but it doesn't work. And then something else just coalesces and leaps. So you don't know who those people are. Everyone's going up and down the ladder all the time. Just, you know, say yes, have fun, see what you can get out of it, and, you know, sometimes it's just a good cocktail story.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. So it definitely is a business of relationships. That is for sure.
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah.
Andy Nelson:
Do you find as far as working in studio live studio audience sort of environment as opposed to working on something on location, do you find you have a preference or do you feel and do you feel like you're bringing different energy or you need to bring different energy depending on which one it is?
Patrick Fabian:
Oh, totally different energies. As a matter of fact, I was working on, the last sitcom I got to do, I got to work with Patty Heaton on, Carol's second act. And, I was working with her and Cedric Yarbrough and some other people who were, like, funny people. People who know about punches and and rhythms and I've been, you know, wearing a suit and staring off in the distance with smokey blue eyes for 2 seasons, you know what I'm saying? So all of a sudden I'm doing this live action thing and, Patty Patty was great because Patty knows.
Patrick Fabian:
Patty Heaton hears it. She knows what the setup is, she knows where the joke is, she knows the funny. I mean she's done 200 and some episodes of Raymond and 200 episodes of The Middle. So she knows what she's talking about And it was funny. One time we were we were we were doing something.
Patrick Fabian:
I was playing, like, her doctor slash love interest. And, anyways, I fumbled the line on tape night because I was nervous. I hadn't been in front of an audience in a while. It was our first go. And I sort of I blew the line.
Patrick Fabian:
And she put her arm around me, and she said to the studio audience, she goes, you have to forgive Patrick. He's on award winning drama on another network usually. And it just it bathed me in a quick moment of shame, and then absolutely, we howled with laughter, and there was no problem with that afterwards, you know. But it had been a while. I enjoy it because I love live theater.
Patrick Fabian:
I hadn't done that in a while either, and there is an energy that you feed off of. And you can be guaranteed you're not gonna be working at 3 o'clock in the desert, you know, when you're doing
Andy Nelson:
a sitcom. That is very true. Very, very true. Well, I think at this point, we should, shift our conversation to talk about, this fantastic movie that you brought for us to discuss, John Houston's The Man Who Would Be King.
Trailer:
There is no place on Earth too forbidding. There is no adventure too dangerous to dare. There is no dream of wealth and glory too impossible for the man who would be king, Connery and Kane, rogue and renegade, reckless and fearless soldiers of fortune on the richest adventure of their life. Across a 1,000 miles of danger, come with Sean Connery and Michael Caine as they try to capture a whole country, a scheme for rascals to become royalty in the long lost land of Alexander the Great. Rudyard Kipling's the man who would be king.
Trailer:
They share the treasure. They share the danger. They share the adventure. Sean Connery, Michael Caine, and Christopher Plummer in John Houston's The Man Who Would Be King.
Patrick Fabian:
Well, I'm curious. You guys said that you had never seen it. Did you know about it? Had you did you was it in your zeitgeist at all?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. But, you know, everybody has blind spots. Right? I'm always surprised when we're talking to people about the movies they haven't seen that are really core to my identity. And this one, I know was core to a lot of people, clearly to you, but it was an absolute blind spot.
Pete Wright:
I didn't know what it was. I couldn't have told you who was in it. I just knew it was kind of an North African adventure movie, and that was it. I was blown away by what this movie did for me. Blown away.
Andy Nelson:
I mentioned earlier, like, on the next real podcast, Pete and I have looked at John Huston a bunch of times. We've talked about him in some film noir series we did. We did a whole series on just John Huston films, but this one was just never one that kind of ended up on the list. And I I I don't know if I could even say why it didn't end up on the list. It just it just I mean, he's got a very long career, but that's probably why.
Andy Nelson:
There's a lot of movies to pick from. I've always known about this, and it's been out there. And it's a list of, you know, those adaptations from Rudyard Kipling. And, you know, I think a lot of the Rudyard Kipling stories you look at now through different eyes about, like, you know, what the British colonialism, like, that whole aspect of a lot of the stories that kind of flow through his works. But I don't know.
Andy Nelson:
I love Sean Connery. I love Michael Caine. I love Christopher Plummer. Like, all the reasons for me to have watched to this much earlier in my life are there. It's just I hadn't.
Andy Nelson:
And so it was very exciting to see that you'd picked it because I thoroughly enjoyed myself with this one.
Patrick Fabian:
It felt like watching it for the first time again last night in a lot of ways because there was shots that I'd missed. I think in my memory, the movie is only once they get to the big city, once they're summoned to the big city. And then I realized a large portion of the movie is is the journey, is the traveling, is the whole setup, is this laying the groundwork of the Masons and and all of that. But along the way there's all this observational stuff, this sense of destiny both as a country, as Englishmen, entitlement, the way they treat people, and yet there's a code of honor that is both a military code of honor, and then this idea of the freemasonry thing that that that reaches back all the way to Alexander and I love that part of it. You know, that's the part that I that feels like a real link to the past that actually could be true.
Andy Nelson:
It that's an interesting element to the film and and, you know, right after Pete finished watching it, he texted me. He's like, we need to figure out what we need to do to become freemasons. Like, there's and he was like
Pete Wright:
We just got inspired in something.
Andy Nelson:
There's clearly something to this that, you know, you're connected to history. It was a really interesting element of the story. And like you said, it could be true. Like, were Alexander the great and the people in his time when they wandered through Kafiristan and Afghanistan? Were there elements of freemasons working through there that were actually helping build these communities that ended up being, you know, centuries later what they were in the film?
Andy Nelson:
Who knows? But it made for such a fascinating story when you have the the head priest open up Connery's shirt to prepare to stab him, and he sees that the, the freemason pendant around his neck. Like, I don't know. It was a it was a fascinating element that spoke to a a thread of history that, I don't know. It just feels like like when this ended, I'm like, I need to look and see, was this actually based on something that happened?
Andy Nelson:
Like, it just it puts that in your head.
Patrick Fabian:
It feels like it could be true. And Yeah. And and that notion of, you know, the chance the chance meeting, the chance of the watch and all that. Well, Connery has it in his speech. Daniel Dravot has it in his speech when he gets all full of himself and says I'm not leaving.
Patrick Fabian:
And he starts to connect. It's such it's so beautiful because it's such human avarice. It's such the human condition to not just leave the table with a winner. Peachy says it. Oh, come on, man.
Patrick Fabian:
We've had a great we've had a great streak of luck. Let's cut and run. And and and if he says, yes, completely different movie, then we see them in the south of France. They see they they successfully do it.
Andy Nelson:
Sure. Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
You know the tragedy. It's like watching, you know, the car wreck in slow motion. You know he's not going to do that, and you know he should. And then when he says stay an extra day, I'm like, no, PG. Go.
Patrick Fabian:
Go.
Pete Wright:
This is the thing that I find so interesting about this movie is that it it is up until that movement up until that moment kind of an adventure buddy comedy. Like you said, it's the Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. And then from that point, it takes a gentle left turn and then a hard left turn. It becomes both the it is the least John Houston of Josh Houston's movies until the end when it is the most. Right?
Pete Wright:
Like Right. It it is a really interesting sort of litmus test for how you feel about John Houston as a director that we get this movie which takes that moral choice or that that egoic choice of, it's crazy to me, but I think I was meant to be the king of these of these people. I think I was meant to be a god king. Who says that? Right?
Pete Wright:
And here we are, and he's going to lose his head, which is carried in a bag across around the world. Right. Unreal. Right.
Patrick Fabian:
It's it's unreal because you're right. I'm I'm with him, and then his his ego gets better than that Pichi says. You know, may you rot in hell, Daniel Dravot. When Cain comes back when when Pichi comes back and says, I'm all loaded up. You wanna check?
Patrick Fabian:
You wanna check anything I shouldn't take? And they have that whole scene between the scripts. And at the very end,
Pete Wright:
at
Patrick Fabian:
the very end, he opens the curtain, and he flashes that smile, and he's not a king, and he's not an egoist, he's his friend. And he says, you know, oh, come on, stay a day and walk me down the aisle. Yeah, watch me get married. And you're like, oh. And he goes, I'll do that for you.
Patrick Fabian:
It's such a wonderful moment, and it's the last moment of, well, you're right. Then it starts to go dark. In the direction, we keep going back to the eye off kilter. Right? And the woman on the ground, like, it's all this cacophony of awfulness when he's, you know, he has to have the girl.
Patrick Fabian:
He has to have the girl. It's and and and when they when they flip, you know, she bites him. And she goes from being, as Peachy says, the Venus to Milo, and the thing that he wants, immediately he calls her the slut bit me. And and I was like, oh, that's one of those jarring things where you're like, oh.
Andy Nelson:
Really?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
So we go from this to slut. And I'm like, well, it it fits in the time. But for modern watching and modern ears, it really is sort of you can circle that moment as indicative of, like, everything that's wrong with men. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Andy Nelson:
Well and it speaks to the, what I found interesting is, like, there is, and I haven't read the the Kipling book, but I I couldn't help but feel like this was very much not necessarily a celebratory look at British colonialism. Like, it really feels like Kipling was saying some pretty nasty things about how some of these Brits behave and think of themselves when they're in this place of, we'll just say other. And they feel like just because I'm here and I'm British, I'm better than anyone else around me. And so it's my right to rule. Like, there's kind of that element already in here.
Andy Nelson:
Right? And then as they decide, we're gonna just go be kings in Kaffiristan. We're gonna, you know, find these people and and, like, they take on that role and they succeed and everybody, like, totally buys into it because they've got guns, really.
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
It's a true colors moment too, though.
Andy Nelson:
It, yeah, boils down to this thing. And then it just kind of keeps progressing for Daniel. And that's what was so horrifying. And, Pete, it was interesting. Like, I I totally hear what you're saying about John Houston, but I think that there is this real, like, African queen element of, like, the adventure that we have at the beginning.
Andy Nelson:
And then it does flip into more of, like, a fat city darker, more depressing ending in the but last. So it all feels very John Houston to me, but it's just Mhmm.
Pete Wright:
I I
Patrick Fabian:
don't know.
Andy Nelson:
Just
Pete Wright:
It's just on the fringes of those experiences, though. Right? Like, it has a mood in the beginning because Michael Caine and Connery are funny. They're legitimately funny. And I don't think much of Houston comedy.
Pete Wright:
Like, Prince's honor was there's comedy
Patrick Fabian:
in there. That's fine.
Pete Wright:
But but right? Like, I I don't think of Sierra Madre or Chinatown or Asphalt Jungle is, like, just roll them in the aisles comedy.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. You've got Bogey doing, monkey calls in African queen.
Pete Wright:
So you've got some That's fair. You you had me at
Pete Wright:
monkey calls.
Patrick Fabian:
No. That's what we need TikTok for. Right. Right. Right.
Patrick Fabian:
I think Kipley does. It is a comment on that. When the gentleman gets on the train, introduces himself, introduces his education. He gets in the 1st class car with him and shares his watermelon. What offers the watermelon with him?
Patrick Fabian:
And the contempt, the ugliness, and he gets thrown out and really nothing is said about it. I mean, they talk about it briefly, but nobody really does they're not gonna stop the train. No. And it's horrible. But the fact that it goes without comment, I think is the comment, is, maybe the filmmakers put that in.
Patrick Fabian:
Maybe that's not even sort of being a part of the story and stuff like that. I don't know.
Andy Nelson:
You even have the the Indian fellow who gets thrown off as he's doing it. He's like, like, thank you,
Patrick Fabian:
you know. Well, thank you. He's subservient. He expects it. He tried his best to give his credentials.
Patrick Fabian:
It doesn't matter. And then when, when Kipling says, I noticed my watch was actually gone at the station. So he already knows that he's lying. But then he goes, well, I didn't know you were a Mason. All is forgiven.
Pete Wright:
All is forgiven.
Patrick Fabian:
Boys will be boys. Men will be men. That's the one instance. And then, like, after, you know, the slut bit me, then they start my brass it out, Danny. Now he's back in line.
Patrick Fabian:
They start going, they start going, and when they they run down that corridor through the city before it gets filled, and you hear you hear David and Ted the guy the guy who wanted to rule them benevolently and usher them a 1000 years of lineage immediately said to belly fish, get your get your shooters. We're gonna slaughter them like dogs. Yeah. I Yeah. Oh my
Andy Nelson:
Right. Right.
Pete Wright:
They are your shooters. That is unreal. Yeah. That's the that's that spirit. And I and I think that, you know, the bit me moment is as a true colors moment is the moment it's like the it's the punch line on the setup that we started with on that train.
Pete Wright:
Like, this if you didn't get the entitlement, if you didn't get those beats that were delivered pretty subtly, by the time you get to that moment at the wedding, it's it is all clear that these guys are the antagonists to, you know, to these people.
Patrick Fabian:
And They are they are the other. They are the
Andy Nelson:
You're right. Exactly.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
And even when he barks at him when he walks out onto the under the bridge, you know, can't you cut out of me faster? Like, he still wants to order him around, and it's like, no. No. Your fate is your fate. This is this is the thing that you have coming to you, deservedly so.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. What a way out, though. I was like, don't they need that bridge? Like, now now they're gonna have to put a do it up. Like, that's that's one hell of a way to get rid of somebody.
Patrick Fabian:
I also thought about the crown because I thought
Andy Nelson:
Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
It is Alexander's crown.
Andy Nelson:
Right.
Patrick Fabian:
You know, maybe they who knows? Maybe they thought we'll send a goat down later and get it.
Andy Nelson:
Exactly. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
The the thing about that bridge, though, I
Patrick Fabian:
think is a really interesting one because it
Pete Wright:
was the bridge that was built essentially by their leadership of the of the colonials. Right? And so cutting the bridge is really restoring the authenticity of the people. Do they need the bridge? They didn't need it before they arrived.
Patrick Fabian:
Right.
Andy Nelson:
Right? Yeah. I guess it's like a bridge on the river Kwai sort of bridge.
Patrick Fabian:
Absolutely. The the parallels have got to be, you know, they're they're so good. It's this is a this is busy work for a British man in order to bide time, you know. Yeah.
Andy Nelson:
For sure. Exactly. Exactly.
Patrick Fabian:
But, you know, I I was thinking about it also. Houston, it was so great. No CGI. So when he has that shop, when they go through the Khyber Pass and then he pans back and it's quarter to quarter, it's gotta be a quarter a mile, if not a mile of people. And it's not just 2 rows, it's like 6 deep.
Patrick Fabian:
And I know they're in Morocco and I know they probably didn't get paid a whole lot, but they got paid something. So like the cities were filled with people. And there was something wonderful about realizing everything you saw on screen was tangible and fungible, you know.
Andy Nelson:
Exactly. Well, even when they're, I mean, it's not necessarily shot full of people, but just like when they're in the snowy mountain range and, again, filming in the Alps, so it's it's, you know, easier. But still, like, you have some fantastic shots of, like, just 2 men and a mule walking in a vast, vast sea of snow.
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. Yeah.
Andy Nelson:
They they captured some fantastic imagery here.
Patrick Fabian:
And I kept this time I was looking, I was like, oh, that clearly doesn't have to be either of the actors. That's clearly 2 stunt people who are like, take can you back the needle up a 100 yards?
Andy Nelson:
Right.
Patrick Fabian:
It would help my framing. And they're like, can you move the cam no. No. The camera's perfect. You need to go back a 100 yards.
Andy Nelson:
But and and that was an interesting moment. You talked about, like, destiny and everything. I I can't help but feel like there's this element of the 2 men as they're lost or not necessarily lost, but stuck in the mountains. There's a giant ravine that's blocking them from their way through, and they essentially are, unable to continue looking at potentially dying here in the mountains. And then you have this moment where they're singing and laughing, and that causes an avalanche which conveniently fills in the ravine so that they can cross and continue and actually make their way into Kaffiristan.
Andy Nelson:
Like, that was such an interesting moment to depict. Like, probably for them, this British, idea of, you know, we are meant to do this. This was destiny for us to make it over over there. You know? It's it's such an interesting moment.
Patrick Fabian:
And it also comes on the heels of them saying, that's it. The bridge behind is gone. There's nothing ahead. And they have a a fairly honest assessment of themselves at that moment. I didn't It might be
Andy Nelson:
the last time in the film. Yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
Right. I've got no good deeds to account to myself. But we've had an interesting life. 2 men can't say they have seen more than we've seen and that's enough in the age of adventure. But to your point, that and them laughing at the expense of the guy who gets the Victorian cross and this and that, As you say, then all of a sudden it's providence.
Patrick Fabian:
It's it's God literally leading them there. Oh hey, I I have to I have to, I have to divert for just a second because
Andy Nelson:
Sure.
Patrick Fabian:
I love this film so much that, I got a poster of it. And, I framed it. Spent good money on framing it and everything else. And then I was living with somebody and somehow I got into a basement and there was flooding and anyways, the poster then seeped in and got a watermark and possibly a bunch of mold. All I know for sure is that when I met my wife, Mandy Fabian, filmmaker and writer, the moment came in our relationship where it turned out, I was gonna move in with her.
Patrick Fabian:
That's what we were gonna do. So I was gonna go ahead and, have a yard sale and get rid of some stuff. So, she comes over the day that I was gonna do that and she sees I've got stuff in 2 piles and she goes, what's this? I said, well, this is the pile of stuff I'm gonna keep and this is the stuff I'm gonna get rid of. And she looks right at the stuff I'm going to keep and right there is the frame poster of The Man Who Would Be King.
Patrick Fabian:
She's like, so explain that to me. And I'm like, well, this is The Man Who Would Be King and she goes, no no no. Explain this giant stain on it and the mold because nothing screams I'm a bachelor living alone than this. Right. And I was like, oh, and so we had a discussion and and and I I'd had it for years and it was a moment in time where I go like, oh, you know, I'm having a I'm crossing a threshold.
Patrick Fabian:
You know what? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Patrick Fabian:
I will put this down here, but I tell you what. It's gonna get, up. I mean, this. It's gonna get a lot of money. So I think I marked it like a $150.
Patrick Fabian:
I mean, this is on my front lawn in Fairfax. Yeah. So I put it there. Morning goes by. People look in it, and people like, oh, yeah.
Patrick Fabian:
No one's interested. I knock it down to about 75. You know, the local Russians who are in my neighborhood are coming around, and they're trying to bargain me down from 25¢ to 5¢ for a wooden spoon from my kitchen. This is the the buyers, I think. Right?
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Patrick Fabian:
The end the end of the day comes. It's like 3 o'clock. No one has made a serious offer on this at all. The stoners who live below me finally come out from their night before. And this guy comes out, no shoes, he's got his pajamas and no shirt, he comes out and he goes, oh, have any yard sale?
Patrick Fabian:
And I said, yeah. And he looks over and he sees my poster with the water stain. And he goes, dude, that is cool. And I just said, take it. Just take it.
Patrick Fabian:
Oh. Yeah. Oh. Unbeknownst to my wife, I just told her today, I ordered a brand new pristine copy of the poster which I have back in Los Angeles in my garage waiting for the right moment to, to frame.
Andy Nelson:
Look at that. Fantastic. No.
Patrick Fabian:
Maybe, you know, maybe for our 20th anniversary. That seems like a good gift, don't you think?
Andy Nelson:
Oh, she just love it. You know, love it.
Pete Wright:
Does she does she share your love for this movie, your appreciation of it?
Patrick Fabian:
How about this? She was unable to watch it with me last night, unfortunately, so I don't think she's ever seen it.
Andy Nelson:
Oh, another another set of virgin eyes for it.
Patrick Fabian:
Another set of virgin my, my niece did watch it though, and she's, she's in her late twenties. So we finished it and I said, this is kind of a sausage fest. I don't know how you're gonna take this. And we finished it and I said, so what did you think? She goes, I'm trying to remember, did any of the women get to even speak Or did they just get to take their clothes off and bite his cheek?
Patrick Fabian:
I don't know. How can we watch that? And I was like, oh. I get it. I get it.
Patrick Fabian:
Okay. I understand.
Pete Wright:
The movie does not age well in that regard. Did
Patrick Fabian:
that? Even a little bit. No. But if you do take it as a timepiece of when it was made and because it is a it is a timepiece unto itself, it actually to your point, man, Andy, it it Kipling is is not really rollicking with it. He allows moments or the screenplay allows moments to sort of let things be and you see it.
Patrick Fabian:
And it feeds into the narrative like your hubris, your English hubris, your sense of destiny over things large and small ends up getting your head cut off. That's what it ends up getting as a false prophet, you know. So and I don't think you are bending it too hard to make it fit like that. I think it actually does live like that.
Andy Nelson:
Right. Yeah. You know, it's interesting for what the story is. Michael Caine, his his wife plays, plays the woman in the film and, Roxanne, and she, she is part, Indian, and that was, like, a big element. And I I think for him, playing this character who is, you know, definitely has that racist streak through him as far as how he behaves with these people.
Andy Nelson:
But when it comes to actually the production of the film, it was nice to see that, you know, he actually got on the case of the first assistant director who was being, rather racist toward the person who played, Billy Fish. And so, you know, it's just nice to hear that even in the scope of the story with these characters this way that the actor genuinely was just acting the part and didn't stand for any of that.
Patrick Fabian:
Oh, that's good to know. I didn't realize that. I I realize I don't have any history or any go to book to read about the making of, which I would like to do after I watched it again last night. I'm like, oh, I'd like to find out for those very reasons. Because I thought, what?
Patrick Fabian:
It's 19 is it 1974?
Andy Nelson:
75. Yep.
Patrick Fabian:
It's 75. It's not like there's there's nothing going on. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Right. Right. Right.
Patrick Fabian:
In terms of awareness and whatnot, you know. I think Connery is like 3 years out from saying in Playboy that, yeah, he sometimes hits a woman if she needs it. Something like that. Yeah. Right?
Patrick Fabian:
Yeah. Because, you know, we're just guys being guys. You know, I saw I just saw a play about Richard Burton, who is in that ilk as well. And and the play's about Burton doing Hamlet in Broadway. But what you get from it, it was that nose.
Patrick Fabian:
Him, O'Toole, Connery, Kane. All of those guys come from a time where, well, no. The boys are boys. Are they gonna show up drunk for their professional gig?
Pete Wright:
I
Patrick Fabian:
don't know. Oh, Oliver Reed. Did you get the good Oliver or the bad Oliver? And you just sort of took it. It was short of a thing.
Patrick Fabian:
And so by 1975, you know, there's some fissures, but, certainly, that kind of coddling of do what you want was in there. So to find out that Cain is actually aware of that and trying to curb that a little bit is is refreshing to hear.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
How about award season, Andy? A movie we liked so much, clearly, it had attention.
Andy Nelson:
It did have some attention. It had 9 nominations. No wins, but at least it was getting some award recognition. At the 1976 Oscars, it had 4 nominations, best art direction and set decoration but lost to Barry Lyndon, which I can see that. Costume design, it also lost to Barry Lyndon.
Andy Nelson:
Film editing, it was nominated but lost to Jaws. And best adapted screenplay, but lost to 1 flew over the cuckoo's nest. All of those I can I can see?
Pete Wright:
I can kinda see it.
Andy Nelson:
At the BAFTAs, it was nominated for best cinematography, but lost to Barry Lyndon. And best costume design, lost to the day of the locust, which is, you know
Pete Wright:
Seriously? That
Andy Nelson:
old Hollywood look. It's, you know, it's that twenties Hollywood. I can see it. I can see it. Alright.
Andy Nelson:
Golden Globes, it was nominated for best original score, but lost to Jaws. And at the WGA, it was nominated for best adapted screenplay, but lost to 1 flew over the cuckoo cuckoo's nest.
Patrick Fabian:
Well, it's
Pete Wright:
playing in a really, solid sandbox
Andy Nelson:
for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Definitely.
Andy Nelson:
Yep.
Pete Wright:
How to do at the box office.
Andy Nelson:
For his Kipling adaptation, Houston had a budget of 8 and a half million or 50,000,000 in today's dollars. The film premiered on the 26th November 1975 at the Tehran Film Festival of all places, then finally premiering in the United States December 19, 1975 opposite the adventures of the Wilderness Family and John Peck or and Sam Peckinpah's The Killer's Elite. It did well enough for itself, earning 11,000,000 at the box office or almost 65,000,000 in today's dollars, which lands the film with an adjusted profit per finished minute of $114,000. This is a project John Huston wanted to make for a long time. He read this when he was a kid.
Andy Nelson:
It had been kind of his pet project. Sometimes pet projects, when filmmakers finally get to make them, don't work out very well, like toys from Barry Levinson or I wasn't a huge fan of gangs in New York. But this was something that he had actually started working on in the fifties. He'd originally been wanting to work with Clark Gable and Humph Humphrey Bogart in the roles of the characters. He couldn't get it off the ground.
Andy Nelson:
Both of those actors ended up dying. Next on the list was Bert Lancaster and Kirk Douglas. Wow. He was talking to. And then Richard Burton and Peter O'Toole, all very interesting choices there.
Andy Nelson:
The seventies rolled around, and then he was after Robert, speaking of Butch casting the son of his kid, he was looking at Robert Redford and Paul Newman. And it was actually Paul Newman who told John Houston that he's like, you really should probably be casting British actors for this. It would make a lot more sense. And that's when he went to Connery and Kane, which was like, yeah. Of course.
Andy Nelson:
They're perfect. Like, that's it's a great pair, and, yeah, it makes sense to have Brits in the roles.
Patrick Fabian:
Oh my god. That's so funny. Well, at the time, he's like, I don't know. I need box office. I need you know, whatever whatever they're thinking.
Patrick Fabian:
Right?
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. You just can't
Pete Wright:
see around that next corner.
Pete Wright:
Oh my gosh.
Pete Wright:
It is a story about colonialism. I think that's just fascinating. And and they are I mean, they are every bit the equal buddies of of, you know, Redford and Newman, in this particular movie. When they're being chewed out, they do their their march step out of the office. Like, those kinds of bits that are so central to her royal service, you know, I think just make the movie shine, that they they just feel like they embody the role.
Patrick Fabian:
And and am I right? Maybe you know this. For some reason, you just mentioned that, and I wanna say that was a bit that Connery and Caine came up with. That was their idea to sort of ridiculously march in and do that thing in lockstep that that was they brought that to the table.
Pete Wright:
I would certainly believe it.
Andy Nelson:
I, yeah, I I hope that's the case because that would be awesome that they they would have done that.
Patrick Fabian:
I guess there's no man who would be king too, though. That's the only thing the studio is like. I don't see I mean, John, we like it, but how do I what's
Pete Wright:
You know, maybe Plummer goes to America and finds Butch and Sundance.
Patrick Fabian:
Oh my god. Maybe that's it. Because Plummer Plummer did alright.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. He did okay.
Patrick Fabian:
Oh my god. I remember that last shot though when he unveils the head. Oh. He walks away and you see the back and of course you wanna see. You wanna see.
Patrick Fabian:
And when it turns around, it's somehow not as grotesque as what you were fearing. In the end, it really is just, oh, the crown is pristine and the human is just
Pete Wright:
Insignificant. Irrelevant.
Patrick Fabian:
Right? The crown will continue for another 20 1200 years.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, so it's also why it's called Sean Connery who would be king. Right? I mean, the man is like this unidentifiable generic under the crown.
Pete Wright:
I mean, that's that's the the message. That's a great point. What a terrific movie. I'm so glad we came to this. Thank you so much for recommending it.
Patrick Fabian:
Oh, good. I'm glad I was able to usher it into you for the first time. That's good.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. And, I mean, we've talked about returning to John Houston to do more of his films. But, yeah, inevitably, I would like to think we would have gotten to this one. But having a chance to talk about it now is just perfect. So thank you so much.
Patrick Fabian:
Absolutely, man.
Andy Nelson:
Patrick, where, do you have a place online where you live? Do you do you, have any socials or place that you want people to check out or visit?
Patrick Fabian:
Yes. On, on Instagram and on threads, I'm mister Patrick Fabian. And, on the Twitter, I am Patrick Fabian.
Pete Wright:
Not nearly so formal.
Andy Nelson:
Was there already was there already a mister?
Patrick Fabian:
You know what? I I I forget the confusion at the time. I was just happy to get at the time, this is years ago, I got a blue check and I thought I was somebody, you know. And, now, of course, that's all gone, and, that's okay. I find Instagram and threads to be well, Instagram is really fun.
Patrick Fabian:
I like that a lot because you can just use more pictures than anything else, and it seems that more traffic is there. Although you're talking to a guy over 50, so I don't know where the traffic is anymore. And, you know what I'm saying? Hey. Guess what?
Patrick Fabian:
The traffic's not looking for me that much, so it's okay. Those that's alright too.
Andy Nelson:
Right. Right. Right. Fantastic. Well, we'll put those in the show notes.
Andy Nelson:
Patrick, thank you again so much for for joining us here today. Fantastic conversation, about your career and a brilliant movie.
Patrick Fabian:
Thank you, gents.
Andy Nelson:
Thanks for having me. For everybody else out there, we hope that you like the
Pete Wright:
show, and we certainly hope that you like the movie like we do here on Movies We Like.
Andy Nelson:
Movies we like is a part of the True Story FM Entertainment Podcast Network and the Next Real family of film podcasts. The music is chomp clap by out of flux. Find Find the show at true story dot f m and follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, threads, and letterboxed at the next reel. Learn about becoming a member at the next reel.com/membership. And if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, we always appreciate it if you one in there for us.