The second half of life can be full of meaningful moments—more time with family, new opportunities, and the freedom to focus on what matters most. At the same time, it often brings important questions about planning, caregiving, relationships, and the future.
So that’s exactly what we talk about.
We'll tackle difficult topics like estate planning and care navigation, strategic aspects of taxes and business succession planning, and the dynamics of relationships and seasons that come with the second half of life.
Because if done right, the second half can be the better half.
Welcome to Second Half Conversations. I'm your host, Sondra Ziegler. This is a space to discuss all kinds of topics about the second half of life, from complicated legal topics like wealth protection and business succession planning that we break down in a practical way, to long term care planning and care navigation when you have a loved one on a care journey, to leaning into fully experiencing new seasons of life, of work and relationships. Our team and guests are here to equip you to take full advantage of where you're at. Because if done right, the second half is the better half.
Sondra Ziegler:Let's get to it. Thank you so much for joining us again today for Second Half Conversations. I am so thrilled to have joining us again today, Michelle Pauda, our care navigator at Ziegler Estate Law Group. And also, we have joining us today Marisa Vasquez, who is the Development Manager for the Alzheimer's Association West Texas Chapter. So thank you, Marisa, for joining us.
Marisa Vasquez:Oh, it's truly an honor to be here. I'm excited to share about the Association. And since we've been longtime partners, it's just always great to be able to collaborate, to encourage those who are engaged in this journey.
Sondra Ziegler:Absolutely. And we really love taking part in the walk every year. So that really goes to my first question. If you are not familiar with what the Alzheimer's Association does, tell us give us a thumb a a thumbnail sketch of what the Alzheimer's Association does because, you know, a lot of people listening to this may be familiar with the walk annually and they probably wonder, okay, where does that money go that's raised? What services are available in our local area? So fill us in on that.
Marisa Vasquez:Sure. I'd be happy to speak to that. I'll give a little bit of history, to the association. It started in 1980, with the memory walk. It was a group of caregiver families that came together, that recognized there was a need here.
Marisa Vasquez:Over time, that turned into the association being one that it's not just there to walk and to mourn, but to be a part of the change that they want to see, to be a part of a future without Alzheimer's and all other dementia. And so through that, the walk was born and it went from being a memory walk to an actual walk, where everyone involved is working on that vision. And so it became the largest support group of the year, but also the catalyst to fund research and services and resources for our community. So the Alzheimer's Association leads the way in ending Alzheimer's and all other dementia by accelerating global research, driving early detection and risk reduction, while also maximizing quality care and support. So I know that is a mouthful there, but those are basically three legs to this stool of what the association does.
Marisa Vasquez:Everything from the global research aspect of being able to bring together researchers to collaborate and to work together has allowed us to see this acceleration in the different treatment modifications that are now disease modification treatments that are now available to also being able to provide support to our medical teams and staff that need to maximize that quality care by providing resources like continuing education for them. And then also that early detection and risk reduction. So the Alzheimer's Association, we just completed the largest two year study of over 2,000 participants looking at healthy habits for your brain is what came out of that study and being able to have that brain health piece and be able to provide that to our community. Also on our local level, we provide support groups. We are able to work with individuals that want to volunteer with the association and be there for those who are currently impacted.
Sondra Ziegler:It's interesting to hear you talk about, you know, the mission being to end Alzheimer's all forms of dementia because, as we're learning, you know, it's so important to get that specific diagnosis about what type of dementia a person has, so that they can be treated appropriately, so that they can be on the right medications. And so one question I had for you is how does your local chapter collaborate with health care providers, researchers, and community partners? How do y'all become a bridge, so to speak, to those people and other organizations?
Marisa Vasquez:So the association, we're called the Alzheimer's Association because Alzheimer's is the granddaddy. So you have about sixty percent of all dementia either has Alzheimer's as a component or is Alzheimer's. To answer your question about connecting in the medical space, for me, I'm the development manager. So what I do is I work with families, businesses to be able to put together those resources, but then also connect them to other factions of the association that are working on various projects to be able to support and help those physicians know what to do, how to find that diagnosis, how to keep up to date with the changing landscape of what we know about Alzheimer's and dementia and being able to support them. So here locally, we recently had a grant given to the Texas Tech Health Science Center Garrison Institute on Aging.
Marisa Vasquez:That's where they're able to take that and their knowledge here and be able to support through respite care and be able to expand that for the caregiver. We also recently just at our box celebration had Doctor. Shen with the Texas Tech Health Science Center and his doctoral student who were working on gut health in relation to Alzheimer's and dementia. And they were able to share about their work and about how the association has funded that for the last three years and being able to find that cutting edge information and research so that they can then be able to continue that and then collaborate with other researchers. It really creates this acceleration where our researchers are not working in isolation, but building off of each other's research.
Marisa Vasquez:And so what I do is I help make sure that those funds continue to be there so that we can focus on Alzheimer's and dementia. When I started as a volunteer, a good ten, eleven years ago, Like you said, Sondra, back then, what did we do? What did we do? Now we talk about getting a diagnosis, a family being able to find out what is the prognosis for that type or types of dementia that they have. And so much in estate planning then is, well, how do we plan for that?
Marisa Vasquez:And if we have at least that knowledge that could bring some support to that family and knowing of, okay, this is how we need to plan. And then Michelle, you coming in and being able to walk them through that process. It's just so important, to know that someone's there. And in the middle of the night, when no one else is available, guess who's there? The Alzheimer's Association through our 20 helpline, they can call and get information on resources, on what type or types of dementia, any other information they need on that to find a support group.
Marisa Vasquez:They can also, work to put together a care plan by connecting them, there with those who are available or those locally through our helpline. And so we're always encouraging our local businesses and nonprofits to make sure that their information is there readily available for that helpline because so many family members are calling from other parts of The United States wanting to know what is there in Lubbock for my mom or my dad. And that's just so vitally important. The other piece to the walk besides just funding is what it does for families. Not only do they get to participate in this change and this acceleration of what we know about Alzheimer's and dementia as we work towards that vision to end Alzheimer's, they're able to do something about that.
Marisa Vasquez:Whether it's through the fundraising, whether it's to come and just say, I'm here for you by being at Walk and showing that support for those who come to stop and be able to look around and say, these are the companies that are here for us. These are our friends and family that are here for us. We are not alone in this disease. And so this is really how the association brings all of those pieces together to be able to accelerate that global research, to be able to let people know you really need that early diagnosis. One in five women by age 45 are at risk for Alzheimer's and dementia and one in ten men.
Marisa Vasquez:So this is not just part of our aging population. This impacting everyone as we move forward. And I have so many that serve on our Walked Into Alzheimer's committee that are there because it's a part of their healing journey as they go through this. We have this year our community engagement chair. Her mother is very, young and our community engagement chair has young children. And so being able to navigate young children and a younger parent who has Alzheimer's or dementia, we're there for them.
Sondra Ziegler:Let me unpack a little bit because you've talked a lot about the support services and it sounds like there's so much there. Let's talk about the helpline for a second. If someone wanted to reach that helpline, how do they do that? What number do they call? I'm sure it's on your website. Give us that number and how to find the different resources that are available with that helpline.
Marisa Vasquez:Sure. So the helpline is (800) 272-3900. That's (800) 272-3900, and it is available 247. And they're able to access master level social workers and experts in the field of Alzheimer's and dementia.
Sondra Ziegler:That's incredible.
Marisa Vasquez:They can call it anytime.
Sondra Ziegler:Twenty four hours a day. So that was my next question. So when you call that number, who is going to be answering that phone? So these are, are these licensed social workers then who are answering the phone and helping figure out what services this person might need?
Marisa Vasquez:Sure. So they will be answered, by a volunteer, and then they will talk through what they're needing, and then they will connect them with the correct expert for the question and the needs that they have.
Sondra Ziegler:That's incredible. So give us an idea of what types of things people will call this helpline for.
Marisa Vasquez:Sure. A great one is, this runs in my family. What do I need to know? That is one that you hear a lot, and that's where they can go. And whether they want to be a part of a trial or they just want to be up to date on any of the new science and understanding about that type of dementia, any type of diagnosis that they might be looking at, they can start there.
Marisa Vasquez:Another one is my loved one has started pacing and I don't know what to do. They can call and visit with them there, or I just need to talk to someone. I am exhausted. They can call and they'll walk them through and help them get connected that way. Many different reasons to call.
Marisa Vasquez:They may be a medical professional and they want continuing education, and it may just be easier for them to call that way. Or anyone can go to alz.org if you're more comfortable using a chat. There's a chat available there or you can do your own research through alz.org as well.
Sondra Ziegler:So this is a national service. So wherever you're listening from, this is not local to our area.
Marisa Vasquez:Correct.
Sondra Ziegler:And this is caregivers can call.
Marisa Vasquez:Anyone. Mhmm.
Sondra Ziegler:Yeah. Anyone can call. That's fantastic.
Marisa Vasquez:Another great thing about it too is if you have family members that maybe live in different parts of the country, this is a great way to call and schedule a time for you all to visit with one of the experts there about your loved one and maybe walk through what they're going through so everyone's on the same page. They're speaking the same language. They're understanding a little more about the disease. They're great at bringing families together that way. Or if you are caregiving, but you're a caregiver who lives somewhere else, I know so many of us live apart from our families and we wanna help do research they can utilize that number as well.
Sondra Ziegler:What can you tell us about, we talked a moment ago about the importance of getting the right diagnosis and if you're a caregiver or loved one who's listening and your mother, your father, somewhat your spouse, you feel like is exhibiting signs that there may be a dementia. What are the barriers that you see to people still getting the right diagnosis and then connecting to the support services that are available?
Marisa Vasquez:Sure. So I know, and Michelle could probably speak to this as well, but many times there's a denial piece, just are not sure how to approach it or their loved one is saying I don't want to go. I don't need to go to the doctor. There's so many different reasons why you know we wait. Maybe it's because we just don't want to know or it just becomes difficult.
Marisa Vasquez:They just don't. And then they say, Well, why? What's the point? A lot of people don't know that there are now treatments that can modify the trajectory of the disease and delay that. And so it's so important. That's where that help line can also be helpful.
Marisa Vasquez:You can call and say, this is the situation. How have other people tackled this when my mom or dad are not wanting to go or my friend, is not wanting to go? Maybe they don't have any family that you know of and you're the friend and you're concerned. You can call the helpline and find out what can I do? Who can I call to help in that situation?
Marisa Vasquez:What would you say, Michelle, to that as well?
Michelle Pauda:I think that sometimes people think it's just a natural part of aging. And so they think, well, this just happens to everybody. And there's like you said, we're saying, there's nothing we can do about it. We just have to accept it. And they don't know that there's lots of different options for them for treatment.
Marisa Vasquez:I remember the first time I received a handwritten note from someone that I had visited with at an event and I was telling them about our helpline. I was telling about the importance of an early diagnosis, just having a casual conversation with them. And then a few weeks later, I received this handwritten note that said, thank you so much for telling me about the helpline. My mother was able to get a diagnosis and has started treatments. And I feel like we've been given time back.
Marisa Vasquez:And that is why we do what we do. We would not have heard that five years ago, ten years ago, if it were not for volunteers who stepped up with the Alzheimer's Association and said, we are going to do something about it. And that changes our lives. If you live in Lubbock, Texas, you are impacted by the Alzheimer's Association just by knowing that you can have a diagnosis, that you can have treatment options. And that's what the association is working towards and continues to.
Marisa Vasquez:We're going to see some more, I believe, this year of new things coming. And while that is outside of my wheelhouse, I am so thankful that I get to be part of the group that funded these breakthroughs and that that's for my kids and my grandkids. And so it's truly an honor to be a part of such a great association that we can actually see tangible results from I just am so glad that I've been apart for so long that I can see that from start to now, just how much has changed.
Sondra Ziegler:Marisa, tell us a little bit about what we're talking about the importance of an early diagnosis. What might some of those interventions look like that help us understand why it's so important to get an early diagnosis rather than getting that diagnosis later? What are some of the things that might be prescribed, if that's even the right word? And know you're not a doctor, but tell us about some of the treatment options that are available now, of the medications that are available.
Marisa Vasquez:So definitely on the medication side and the treatments, really the best way to keep up to date on those because they are changing so much. I mean, nine months ago was when the FDA approved a blood test as part of the diagnostic tools for Alzheimer's and dementia. So is to go to alz.org to call the helpline, talk to them about where you are, what is available in my area, how do I get connected? Because they can speak to them and connect with them and have them bring things that they need to their physician to let them know what to ask their physician, how to bring that in to their treatment options and so on. But as far as the early diagnosis and the importance of that, obviously a lot of these treatments, they're based on trying to keep you where you are for longer.
Marisa Vasquez:So you want to have more of that capacity to be able to remember and to think and to have that cognition there earlier. The other piece of that is you look at the warning signs, the 10 warning signs that the Alzheimer's Association shares. And one of those is about personality changes. So you think about how many relationships would be different if those involved knew that this is a brain disease and that we're working with a brain disease that that's what is causing that personality change. Or you talk about workforce and we say one in five women by age 45.
Marisa Vasquez:I don't know very many that have retired by then. One in ten men, there's not that many that retire within those years. So what does that mean for them when they lose their job versus being able to utilize resources that are given to those who have other illnesses and are able to leave because of that diagnosis and leave in a different way, retire in a different way than to feel like I just can't do my job anymore. There's so many social aspects to that are important to the early diagnosis and being able to plan with your family. And I think that is the biggest part, making your wishes known and planning with your family.
Sondra Ziegler:Absolutely. Michelle, from your standpoint, can you tell us about what you see with families and why that early diagnosis would be so important?
Michelle Pauda:I think the biggest thing for getting the diagnosis early is so that way they can know what the journey ahead is going to look like and plan for that. Whether it be getting their ducks in a row, as you say, but also look at what the caregiving piece is gonna look like and how can we pay for that and what do we need to do to get all those things in order and who's gonna do that. So a lot of times, what Marissa was saying, the sandwich generation, they're not able to do it, they have their own children. And trying to figure out all those things ahead of time is very helpful than waiting till an event and having to do it really quickly and very stressful. It's a very stressful situation if you wait till the last minute.
Sondra Ziegler:Yeah, I think about, of course, given what we do, we think about the legal documents that need to be done if we know that we have a care journey like dementia, where more and greater care is likely to be needed before that person passes and their capacity will be diminishing over time. It's so important, while they still have capacity, to get new estate planning documents in place, even if they already have powers of attorney or wills or trusts or those sorts of things, Most of the time, those are going to need to be changed, especially if it's a married couple we're talking about, because this person whose capacity is going to be declining is probably named in the other spouse's document as a decision maker if something happens to them. So we need holistic planning for both spouses to protect both on this journey ahead, because this person now is not going to be able to act as an agent. They're not going to be able to be the medical power of attorney for their spouse someday, or their financial power of attorney. They're probably not going to be able to be the executor, you know, of their estate if the other spouse passes away.
Sondra Ziegler:But even beyond that, if they need benefits to pay for care, we really need to look at what assets do they own. Could they be eligible for Medicaid benefits to pay for long term care or in home care, or VA benefits? And if they aren't eligible right now, could we get them, situated to be eligible? There are things we can do under the rules to help someone qualify, but all of that has to be done in coordination with their estate planning. Just one example of what can happen if it's not coordinated.
Sondra Ziegler:You know, it is not that uncommon. I wish I knew what the actual statistic was because it happens quite a lot where the person who is the caregiver, may die first. And if you, as a married couple, have a traditional, you know, I love you will, where it says, when I pass all to my spouse and if they pass all to me, well, if the person who doesn't have dementia passes first, if the one who has dementia was eligible for benefits to pay for care, if they inherit all the assets of the marriage because the other spouse passes first, well, guess what? Now they're not eligible anymore for those benefits. That is a mess.
Sondra Ziegler:So anyway, that's just all that to say the early diagnosis gives, time and probably motivation to go ahead and get that legal planning done. But when I heard you talk about the impact to the family and how important it would be for them to understand what the type of dementia that their loved one has in particular, how that will impact them on the road ahead and their behaviors. Yes. Huge impact to their relationship because now they're not interpreting some of these behaviors as belligerence or they don't love me anymore or being hateful. Some of these because, you know, some of their speech may start to sound hateful or rude, but we know clinically there are reasons why. It's because of what parts of their brain are being affected first.
Marisa Vasquez:Yeah, it gives them time to educate themselves on how do we prepare for this, the grandchildren, the children, there, anyone else that's a part of their caregiving team to know, okay, if they're upset, why? Is it how I approached them? Is it the temperature in the room or a toothache? There's so much as the disease progresses that you can be out in front of and to be able to connect with other people who are going through it is so vitally important to know and be able to plan to be able to care for them.
Sondra Ziegler:One example of that that I think of that I learned when I went through some just, you know, training about dementia for a layman, you know, I'm not a medical professional or a social worker or any of that, but was just the impact of the vision changes that happen with dementia and how that can translate into behaviors that look bad or wrong or aggressive. Just in learning how their vision narrows, how they lose their peripheral vision, and they, you know, so it's like looking through binoculars. And then over time they even lose that to where it's like monocular vision, where you, like if you were looking through a, you know, one circle or like a paper towel tube or something. And so they can't see you coming from the side. So you might startle them.
Sondra Ziegler:They can't see over time they get to the point where or at least some people do where they can't see what's right in front of them. So one example was, you know, a lady whose mom was in an assisted living facility, in a memory care facility, and her mother had started exhibiting this behavior at mealtime where she was, quote, stealing food off of the other people's plates. But it she it come to find out she couldn't see the food that was on her plate that was right in front of her. She could see the tray that was in front of the person over here on the you know, next to her at the table. And so she thought that was her tray.
Sondra Ziegler:She wasn't trying to, you know, suddenly steal the food. So, anyway, I just think if there's, I'm sure there's a thousand things like that that can be misinterpreted if we don't know the effects of dementia on the brain and how that translates into how we live every day and how we interact with our loved ones.
Marisa Vasquez:And I think the other piece on that early diagnosis is you don't know when something's going to change. You don't know they may still be driving and you don't realize that they don't see color anymore. So how does that traffic light work? Or the depth perception, a lot of times a fall is when families find out because they fell due to depth perception, but you take that into driving as well. So, that early detection is also a protection for themselves and for others.
Marisa Vasquez:And I know that that is very difficult conversations. That is probably one of the things that I think I hear the most about is is driving. And and, again, that helpline call visit kinda walk through that scenario and then get a game plan together on what resources may be available in your area and so much there to help your family navigate those things. The other piece is for the caregiver. When you are tired and then you're trying to stop and do the right thing, and then there's the caregiver guilt, I mean, we could talk a whole podcast on these things, But the caregiver needs to know that they have someone that they can call and at least visit with and get other resources available to them to really work towards taking advantage of the respite, programs that may be available in their area.
Sondra Ziegler:You mentioned the support group. Tell us about how they how our people in the West Texas area would find out about when the support group meets in their area?
Marisa Vasquez:Sure. So they can go to alz.org/westtexas, and they'll be able to access, those that are available there. They can call the helpline. They have a list of when they meet, where they meet. We have almost one a week at this point that you could attend at different times and places around the city.
Marisa Vasquez:And so can find one that works. If you want something maybe a little more specific, maybe it's a particular type of dementia, there is also various online support groups that you can attend as well. If you're wanting to know, what about frontal temporal? What about Dementia related to Parkinson's? Or maybe it's an early onset and they're in their 50s or 60s and that's the group you want to meet with. You can find those types of groups, also through the helplinealz.org, and they'll get you connected that way as well.
Sondra Ziegler:So how long are these? First of all, are these in person? Are these all in person support sessions? About how many people would be there if they decide to show up and and, how long do they last? Are they are we talking about like forty five minutes, an hour?
Marisa Vasquez:Sure. So each support group facilitator has gone through a training through the association as well as a background check. So that's important to note. So that's because there's a lot of support groups out there. But if you're looking for one where someone has been at least vetted and is a part of the association through that program and training, you can find that through alz.org or alz.org/westtexas.
Marisa Vasquez:The ones that I was talking about as far as support groups for caregivers, those are in person here in our Lubbock area. And those typically last an hour. We have some that do two hours. We have some that are an hour. Of course, you can come and go as you need to.
Marisa Vasquez:And they vary in number anywhere from about eight to 20 at the most. Try to keep them smaller than that. But there are at least one day a week you can find a group here in the Lubbock area. And there's a few weeks there where there's at least two. And if you're listening, you want to become a support group facilitator, you can also visit alz.org/westtexas to sign up and volunteer there as well to go through that process.
Marisa Vasquez:So, we really take that care seriously and want those who visit our support groups to be in good hands there. But it's just great to go in person, but sometimes you just can't get there or you live in a rural area that there might not be one yet. And that's okay too. That's where the online comes in, and is very helpful as well.
Sondra Ziegler:So you have an online support group, or or are you saying you can join? So they're not live streaming the local?
Marisa Vasquez:Correct. Yes.
Sondra Ziegler:Separate. Okay. Okay.
Marisa Vasquez:Yes. Those are separate. No, that's a great question. That's a great question. No, they're separate. And so there are some that are online and there are some in person and you can find what works best for you, whether it's a general caregiver group or something more specific.
Sondra Ziegler:Marisa, I'm always struck by your passion for what you do. So tell us a little bit about how you started working with the Alzheimer's Association. What drew you to it? Why did do this work?
Marisa Vasquez:Over a decade ago now, isn't that isn't that amazing? Was sitting across the table from various families. I was working in a senior living community. And while I'd had a little bit of a connection through my grandmother, just being there at the beginning as an adult now, across the table from families trying to come to grips with where they are and what is this disease. And we know nothing about the legalities of being able to find a place for our loved one or be able to.
Marisa Vasquez:And some of these family members hadn't spoken in years to each other, and now they're trying to navigate this disease. And at that time, there really wasn't a whole lot out there for them. The association had resources and was really striving to get the stigma as that Alzheimer's was a part of the natural aging process. We're really trying to work to break that. So just coming this far and every year just hearing how much more we've accomplished towards that vision.
Marisa Vasquez:And there's not as many groups that I can think of that you see that vast of a change in that short of amount of time. So, I always tell our committee members that are with Walk and Do What You Loved End Alzheimer's and other campaigns that we do for this is that just even if a lot of us do a little, we'll see a huge change. And thankfully, there's a lot of us doing a lot, and that is also why we're seeing this change. But everybody can do something. And we can do it in honor of, in memory of, for the future of, we can all do something.
Marisa Vasquez:And to know that the association personally, just watching that return on my personal investment there as a volunteer and now I'm having the honor to be in a staff position supporting our volunteers truly is an honor. And I am looking forward to all the new announcements we'll hear in the next year, the new breakthroughs that are coming for us. We're getting there. We're working ourselves out of a job is what we like to say.
Sondra Ziegler:Fantastic. So if someone listening wanted to get involved with the walk, can you tell us when it is and how to how to get involved?
Marisa Vasquez:Sure. So you can actually go to our website for the walk itself. Now, obviously, the helpline can help you find it too. Alz.org. You can find it that way if you wanna wanna go that route, but you can go to act.alz.org/lubbock
Marisa Vasquez:And on that site, you'll be able to register for walk. You can click a box to volunteer. That'll send me your information. We'd love to have you consider joining our walk committee, starting a team, becoming a sponsor and supporting this event for our community. We had over a thousand participants last year, which was incredible. We've raised over $137,000 was a record for both And of those are records for our Lubbock Walk and excited to see that, just grow even more this year as we support those around us.
Sondra Ziegler:Okay. And give us the dates again or the date for I guess if you if you wanted to sign up a team
Marisa Vasquez:October 3.
Sondra Ziegler:Okay. So the walk is October 3.
Marisa Vasquez:Oh, you do it now.
Sondra Ziegler:Yes. You can do it now.
Marisa Vasquez:Uh-huh. They can go ahead and register a family team, friends and family team, a company team. Really, the walk day itself is a culmination of a year's worth of work where we're doing fundraising, we're bringing awareness, we're connecting with others. So many times you don't know who's been impacted until you invite them to join your walk team. And that's when you find out, Oh, I had no idea that you're going through this with your mom or your grandfather or your aunt or uncle or good friend. Someone joined our committee recently. They said, You know, we really didn't have a connection. But then this year, we had a friend who was 55 that was just diagnosed. So we're in. So let's not wait for that.
Marisa Vasquez:Let's all get involved. Let's be a part of that because someday we're going to look up and not even someday way out in the future, Like we're getting so close, we're going to look up and say, we did it. We're here together. I'm excited to see that happen. And that I got to be a part of that. And I hope others will join us as well.
Sondra Ziegler:Amen. Amen to that. Yeah. We're gonna figure this out. And we so appreciate the work that the Alzheimer's Association is doing in general, but, especially, Marisa, what you're doing here locally for our community and for those who need the support, who are walking this journey, with a loved one, we just say thank you. So thank you again for joining us today, Marisa.
Marisa Vasquez:Well, thank you so much and thank you for being such an amazing partner for us. I am looking forward to all the amazing people we're going to be able to touch and to educate and impact and be there for in this next year.
Sondra Ziegler:A quick reminder that today's conversation is for educational purposes only. It is not meant to be legal advice because to give you legal advice, we need to meet with you and know your specific situation. Thanks again for joining us today for this conversation and remember to make the second half the best half.