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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
00:00
Welcome back you guys to the podcast. This is Chris Bruno and Jesse French. Glad you're here. Jesse. I just got back from one of the restoration project experiences, which is one of my favorites. It is the Sage experience overseas. Last year we went to Ireland. This year we went to Scotland and I am literally like still in jet lag recovery mode from getting back from, from Scotland. And so jealous, so jealous.
00:30
Yeah. Overstate that. Well, you know, at some point you got to come and do it with me and it'd be awesome and great. And, you know, here's the thing. So the Sage experience in Scotland, we had 20 men with us and it was. A big group. It's it's not a small group. And especially when you're over there, we went in the middle of winter and most things are kind of closed down and it's not like the high tourist season. And so when a group of 20 men walk into a hotel,
00:59
walk into a restaurant, walk down the street, get it. You know, we load up into the vans and go to the various places and things that we're doing. We're kind of formidable army. If you will. Yeah. Yeah. People take note. A little intimidating. And so what we would often get, and because I was one of the leaders, what I often got when we first walked into, into a new space was quizzical looks by the people that were there.
01:26
Maybe they were the host or the waiter. Maybe they were at the reception desk at the hotel. And of course, they're gonna be asking, why are you here? What is this about? Especially when you're overseas and loud Americans as a stereotype. Maybe you weren't loud, but I mean, very much. I think we were probably stereotyped to be loud. Okay. So, much to my shame, there were some of that going on. Yes.
01:53
They would often ask, like, what is this about? And I was always like, how do I actually try to explain that we've come to Scotland in the dead of winter to investigate and do some inventory of the first half of our lives using the landscape of Scotland as a metaphor for the landscape of our inner lives?
02:20
and to prepare intentionally for the second half. It seems clear to me. I don't know why waiters wouldn't give you a funny look if you said that. That's like common language, right? I don't even know if I understood what you just said. So. Yeah, really hard to actually give some succinct answer of the point of that. Almost impossible. And so most of the time I just like blew it off, like, yeah, we're just touring Scotland and let it go that.
02:49
because I know they weren't actually asking or wanting that level of answer in the first place. It's true. Yeah. But you know, the ones that, that hung out a little bit longer, or maybe if I did offer some kind of answer, the ones that asked a second and a third question, like, so are you all together? Is this, is this a Christian group? Is this, you know, what is happening here? There was a lot of curiosity around why and how men have come to the place.
03:18
of wanting to do some really intentional hard work. And much of the time, the people that I would end up, you know, maybe two, three people that I ended up in these conversations with, they were like, oh my gosh, this is so needed. Can you please come and do this with some of the Scottish men? And to which my answer was like, 100%, just invite me. Yeah, set me up. Anytime. We're freaking out, yeah. It doesn't, yeah. But...
03:43
The reality is that once they began to understand that we were talking about doing some deep kind of inner healing work, there were two things that emerged. One was this is so needed. And the second was men don't do this. That would like that. Those were clear themes. Multiple people had that response. Yes. Right. If we ever got to that level of conversation, you know, because it was so hard to describe what we were doing there,
04:13
But that was, that was the response. And I feel like that's really important to notice that, uh, a even people that we just randomly met saw the value in what we were seeking to do and also recognize that generally men don't work in this realm of trying to heal some of what's going on in their lives, healing their wounds, even acknowledging that they have wounds because I even had one person be like, uh,
04:43
Do men have wounds? What do you mean by wounds? What are you talking about here? Like, are you talking about physical wounds? You know, like, no, it was, it's like heart wounds, things that have happened to us that have been painful and hard. We need to attend to those places in our lives. And then it was like, oh my gosh, men don't do that. We need more of that. Can you come and help us do that here in Scotland? So that I think is important to notice. Yeah. Why just real quickly, why, why is that so?
05:12
that common response came up over and over again of, well this is so needed and men don't do that. Like is it that blatantly obvious to the general world of how rare and yet needed that is? I think it is blatantly obvious. I think it is. And, and again, I don't know why you tell me what you think, but I would say that just generally we are socialized and taught as men that if you have something painful, get over it.
05:42
If there's something that's that feels hard, get past it, push through and don't like just kind of and even if it causes some emotional disruption for you, don't let anybody else know about that. Yep. Don't let anybody else know. In lots of ways, it feels like the metric for value, like I just think of the word tough and just how in my mind, what a positive.
06:11
Attribute that is when someone says when I hear people say, oh, he's tough, like instantly. I translate as, oh, he's valuable, right? This is such this positive thing. This, this capacity to endure pain, to be tough is this mark of there's that of he's valuable. Yeah. And so, yeah, I, I absolutely agree with you that there is that in some ways we've been set up to, uh, to endure it.
06:39
too tough through it to grin and bear it, right? Because that is the mark of our value. Yeah. And I think I also want to just notice too, Jesse, that, okay, so there is that Marlboro man kind of tough Lone Ranger kind of guy that is on one end of the spectrum. And I also want to recognize that on the other end of the spectrum are people that...
07:05
have gone way over to just like wallowing in their pain and not actually like this is their they're not attending to the thing they're loving the fact that they have the wounds. There's something about that it just feels like I you know I'm I'm losing myself in the midst of how bad my life is and how awful things are and how wounded I am and all those kinds of things and
07:31
And there's something to address the level of woundedness that we have, but also not spend an inordinate amount of time just sitting in that and wallowing in that. And I feel like we've had some movement, you know, from the, you know, a couple of decades ago kind of idea around the Marlboro man to someone who just, you know, sits in, sits in the pain for the sake of sitting in the pain. And that's not what I think I'm talking about either. It's, it's, it's more,
07:58
like, yes, acknowledging that we have these things that have been hard in our lives and we have emotional responses, we have dysregulation, we have pain in our lives that we need to attend to, and we need to attend to it. We need to do the work of healing and just how we need to submit and consent to the heat of God that often comes through suffering, often comes through difficulty, often comes through pain.
08:25
that then allows us to be malleable into and unto, into something and unto something to be more the man that he made us to be. And I think that's what we wanna talk about in healing our wounds, is not just groveling in them or ignoring them, but actually moving through a healing process to find a sense of wholeness again. Yes, so the end game of that is...
08:52
to bring our restorative presence, as you said in the last episode, in more full ways. It is not to just wallow, but it is to engage so that our restorative presence can be brought in more real ways. So tell me why that makes sense. So unpack a little bit then of why at Restoration Project we have given intentional language around healing our wounds and actually have said, hey, this is an important starting place in this process.
09:22
Yeah, you know it.
09:27
It's an easy answer and it's a hard answer. Cause I think back to some of the things that we said before, that formulaic living doesn't actually work. And some of one of my favorite authors, Henry Nowen says that the only way out is through and we'll refer, we refer often here in Restoration Project to some of the ancient, ancient faith, fathers and mothers, you know, uh, and all that. And they talk about the dark night of the soul.
09:56
So there is something about slowing our lives down enough to take some inventory of our stories and our lives and where we have been wounded, where we have needed to actually slow down enough to find some healing in those places. To do that before we can... How do I want to say it? Like, before we can bring that restorative presence...
10:23
We need to know like where those places in us are still like oozing blood. If I can be graphic, like where, where are we still leaking out and not kind of recovered our footing, if you will, in order to go and be that restorative presence. Because otherwise if it's still leaking out, we're just going to bleed over other people. We're going to, the wound is going to consume us and it's going to consume them. Which don't you think?
10:51
I would imagine that's some of what those people in Scotland who did have some curiosity around the healing piece of when they said this is so needed. I would imagine they can say that because they have been on the receiving end of men whose wounds have leaked, right? They have been on the receiving end of dismissal of anger, of all of these negative, negative things that are coming out of, of men's woundedness. And so they can say this is needed.
11:21
because they've felt those wounds leak, right? Yes, absolutely. I think it's wonderful timing actually that the train right next to the Restoration Project office is going by and blared its horn just as you were talking about that. That man. So annoying. Well, it's annoying and I think it's kind of an exclamation point from God to say yes, like far too much.
11:48
of the world has been at the hands of leaking wounds, of men who have leaking wounds. And you just said violence, you said dismissal, you had lack of presence, like there's all that stuff. And that is what the people in Scotland were saying, like, oh my gosh, we need that here. We need men to be healed. We need men to do some of this work, to submit themselves to the hand of God, the loving and gracious and healing hand of God because of where we see ourselves.
12:17
Yeah. So this is massive and lifelong work, we would say, right? This is not a definitely not a three step process. But I'd love for you to just say maybe for some people who are listening, who this resonates, but maybe have not stepped into this at all or want to step in this more fully. What are some kind of first steps or next steps? Again, I realize there's there's a massive depth to this work.
12:47
But what would some of those first or next steps be or ways to begin thinking about this for the people that this resonates for?
12:56
That is going to be a really difficult answer in just a few minutes, but let me give it a shot to say this, that I, when I am engaging with men and they step into acknowledging the fact that they have wounds that need to be healed, I get to experience them as the most man that they've ever been. Another way of saying that is to ignore your wounds is not manly.
13:26
to attend to them, to recognize them, and to step into them rather than ignore them, but to step into them requires more courage, more strength, more faith, more power, more hope than ignoring them does. And I feel like what the invitation of Jesus is always to us is find healing in Him.
13:55
And so if we can step more into him, then why would we not wanna do that? And one way that I love saying, I want the presence of Jesus to be in every nook and cranny of my life. And so the more that I can acknowledge the cracks that I have, the more that I can have Jesus show up there. So that's why I want to be about this work, is healing our wounds is actually an act of great faith and great manliness and great courage, because it takes far more of that than it does to a-
14:24
Yeah. Yeah. And in the work that we get to do, right, we, we try to say it multiple times. Like you are incredibly brave. Yes. The courage, the courage it takes to step into this is, is staggering. Yes. Yes. And all of this, you guys, is part of the collective where we are actually providing a pathway.
14:51
for you to begin to do some of this work. So like I said, it's hard to answer that question, Jesse, in a few minutes on a podcast, but we're, you know, here at Restoration Project, we are actually offering some pathway for you to learn more about how to do this and the pace and in the way that is good and right for you wherever you are. So we'd love for you to check out the collective because this is, we call it the collective because it's a collective of men who are on this journey. And all at various places and stages of that.
15:20
in wherever you find yourself. So that is part of what this is all about. So heal your wounds. That is the first kind of main way point really in becoming a restorative man. And we're going to keep talking about that over the next several episodes. So stay tuned for that. Jesse so glad the train was able to give an exclamation point to your statement there and, and.
15:48
We could go off and a whole thing on metaphors of the train and all that kind of stuff too, but we're not going to do that today. You guys stay tuned for the next episode. Take care. Talk to you later. Thanks guys.