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The Be The Church Podcast is for spiritual leaders who want to be challenged to lead like Jesus in everyday places—at home, in your church, at school, and in the workplace. Hosted by Be The Church founder Joel Wayne and Chapel Pointe pastor Luke Bilberry, each episode features bold, authentic conversations with business and ministry leaders that are rooted in Scripture. You'll learn how to expand your spiritual influence and leverage your leadership to advance the Kingdom of God. Let's be the church together! For more information, visit bethechurch.org/podcast.
I think we have to be careful to not make an idol out of the nuclear family because in the Bible, it assumes that the nuclear fame is living on mission together and it's giving instruction to the broader body of Christ.
Shannon Vandewarker:Especially when they were younger, I was very stuck on that, like, behavior modification. Like, can I just get them to do the thing that I'm asking them to do? I don't think that's actually living out the calling. The only, like, godly education is education that is filtered through the lens of discipleship. That can happen in public school.
Shannon Vandewarker:That can happen in private school. That can happen in homeschool if you are intentional.
Dan Vandewarker:Your parenting will flow downstream of the foundation that you've built within your within your view of parenting, within your view of even your marriage if you're married. Yeah. So being really clear on what are you called to as
Luke Bilberry:a family. I'm excited about today's conversation. Get to sit down with pastor Dan Van Walker and his lovely wife Shannon to talk about parenting. This conversation is to help you leverage your spiritual influence in your home because God wants you to be a disciple maker in your home. Well, hey, Dan and Shannon, one of the things that I I just admire, I respect about you guys is as I've gotten to know you is the way that you lead your children.
Luke Bilberry:You guys are, I would use words, intentional, you are thoughtful, and yet you're also very lighthearted. And so it doesn't feel when I step into the VanderWalker house, it doesn't feel like this is a silly reference. The Sound of Music, you guys remember this old musical where, like, the dad's, like, the drill sergeant and all the kids would get in line. They're like, sir. Yes, sir.
Luke Bilberry:And then they would sing as, you know, as they would in musical. But your house is lighthearted. Y'all have tons of people on around. And you guys when I look at you you guys, you model parenting. And so I just wanna have a conversation with you guys about what does it mean to be a biblical parent, a godly mom, a godly dad, and and maybe that's where we should start.
Luke Bilberry:So, Shannon, why why don't we start with you? How would you define parenting? And what does it mean for us to parent in the way of Jesus?
Shannon Vandewarker:Yeah. It's a calling, first and foremost. I think, you know, sometimes in the culture, we talk about parenting as a job. It's not a job. You're not hired to do it.
Shannon Vandewarker:It's a mantle of responsibility given to you by God to be the hands and feet of Jesus to the kids that are entrusted to you. And so I think a lot of parenting, if you were to define kind of what what does that look like, It's discipling your kids to love and follow Jesus in a way that is unique to them. Okay. I I it's not like a check the box, and this kid did this and this and this. But God has created each of our kids really uniquely, and so it's listening to God in terms of how have you created my kids, and then walking with them through throughout their life and helping them ask the questions of how do I live a faithful life.
Luke Bilberry:I heard you say in there, like, biblical parenting, it's calling, it's discipleship oriented, it is unique, distinctive to them. Would that be kinda like three kind of words that kinda pull out of of that? So how how would I understand if I'm trying to either reorient my way of parenting or I, at some point, hope to be a parent? How Shannon, Daniel, you all could both jump in on this one. How would I understand what that calling actually means?
Luke Bilberry:You know, you said it's the spiritual mantle to help disciple people towards Jesus, but I think sometimes that that idea can make all of a sudden, I'm like, I don't know what that means, but help me understand what what is calling? What is that that spiritual mantle that that you were talking about?
Dan Vandewarker:Yeah. I think the maybe the the biggest approach to parenting that we find ourselves in this place of catch up to even get to that question is that we we find ourselves parenting out of reaction. We find ourselves parenting in response to things rather than having a a theology, having a practical approach to, having a plan to parenting, where it's kinda like the I think in a lot of cases, we prepare on the front end, you know, especially before the baby number one comes. We we read all the books. We have all the conversations.
Dan Vandewarker:We prepare.
Luke Bilberry:And then after that Then after that number two
Dan Vandewarker:two three four. You're like, whatever. Whatever happens, you know. And so I think at the heart of that question comes a a posture of continually being open to to learning. Transformation is a what?
Dan Vandewarker:Continual process. Right? And so that's true of parenting too, is you have to get to a place of this is the plan, this is the goal, this is the expectation, and then prioritize marriage, which we're sitting very far apart from each other. If anyone's watching it,
Luke Bilberry:just You guys like each other alive.
Shannon Vandewarker:We do. We we you
Dan Vandewarker:guys must not do married couples on the couches here very often. That's that's actually a fair statement on the podcast. Yeah. I think that plan ahead of time is super important, and it's not too late to start. So I think I forgot the original question if I'm being honest, but the foundation of even what we are asked to come in and talk about, what what does the Bible say about parenting?
Dan Vandewarker:Mhmm. How do we look through the lens of what we're doing? And frankly reframe it no matter where you are in the in the parenting process. Right? One of the things that that I've that stuck with me from someone here, they just said that the right time to do the right thing is always now.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Yeah. Whatever the next right step is, whether it's a mistake or whether the moment is like, I'm gonna lead in this moment. This is what I can control. I can't control the past, and I can't control the future, but I can step in the now.
Luke Bilberry:So so that idea maybe of of maybe maybe we can slice it up this way to understand what that calling, spiritual mantle is. What does that mean for you to be a mom? What does it look like? What maybe some descriptor words. What would you say?
Luke Bilberry:I know I'm obedient Holy Spirit and God's leading. I know I'm a good parent, a good mom when I do fill in the blank. What does that look like for you, miss Shannon?
Shannon Vandewarker:Yeah. So I think I'll answer that by talking about the opposite. I think a lot of times in the in the past and sometimes I still get kind of pulled into this kind of behavior modification of can I just get them to do the thing that I'm asking them to do? I don't think that's actually living out the calling to be a to be the mom that God's calling me to be. I think what that looks like is God actually listening to God about my kids Mhmm.
Shannon Vandewarker:In the moment and asking what is it that you would want them to hear rather than what is it that I feel like I need to control right now, or what are the fears that are coming up that I need to help them modify their behavior around. Yeah. We make it about ourselves, I think, too much rather than about them actually learning how to walk in discipleship. And so I think for me, it often is going back to my kids and saying, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Shannon Vandewarker:You know, I was wrong here. And then also keeping the perspective of, can I help direct them towards God
Dan Vandewarker:Yeah?
Shannon Vandewarker:In each conversation that we're having, whether that be, like, specifically about their relationship with God or other things. Can I step into this space and help them see kind of a bigger picture of what what God might be doing in their life in the midst of whatever it is that we're talking about?
Luke Bilberry:So tell me tell me a real life story. When's that that moment that you're like, yes. I did it. I, like, I just yes. Thank you, God.
Luke Bilberry:We yes. That was through the uprights. Awesome mom. Well, it's Or maybe Dan, you called out
Dan Vandewarker:one. Thinking about that. There's a there's a reality that as parents, you're preparing your kids for a future that is unknown and unseen. Mhmm. That that we are preparing our kids.
Dan Vandewarker:There's there's a shift for me in the last, probably, year specifically where oftentimes we feel like it's a we we feel like it's a a call of the parent to protect our kids. I don't think that's a a biblical call. I think the call in the Bible is to prepare our kids, which includes protection, but the primary goal is that we're preparing our kids for the future. Yeah. We're preparing our kids to to live as a child of God.
Dan Vandewarker:And so, with that comes we as parents, we have to let go of this this idea that the end goal is that our kids like us. Right? It's more important that that they respect us than it is that they like us. Respect will come love. With that respect will come a future where they could look back and understand things.
Dan Vandewarker:Right? But the the the goal of parenting, really, a biblical parenting is to prepare our kids for whatever is coming, which we have no idea what that is right now.
Luke Bilberry:Right. Yeah. If if we look at parenting, if parenting is synonymous with discipleship, Jesus walked with the disciples, raised them up, prepared them for a significant season without them. Right? And he says, I'm I'm gonna go.
Luke Bilberry:I'm gonna prepare a place for you, but he prepares them and he's they're having to lean on Holy Spirit and all the things that Jesus has taught them to go live out their calling. Right? And that that's what I'm I'm hearing you say, Dan, in that moment. And so so, Dan, you can either double down on Shannon's yes mom moments or Shannon, you've got one. So just I I wanna hear a real life Vanderwerker.
Luke Bilberry:Yes. We did it.
Shannon Vandewarker:I think about we took a trip to Baltimore this past fall, and we were walking back to our hotel. It was Declan, who's our oldest, and Parker, our youngest. And she looked up and she said, mom, we should thank God for the gift of this good trip. It's been just such a sweet time. And I looked over at Declan, and his jaw had, like, dropped to the floor.
Shannon Vandewarker:And it was just this sweet moment of, like, I I can't take credit for what God does in my kids' lives. But it was this, like, sweet, like, thank you, God, that, like Mhmm. I'm seeing you work, and then I'm also seeing you use our kids together to help kind of build up build them up. So it's not just the two of us, but as they grow, they sharpen each other. Yeah.
Shannon Vandewarker:And that was just a really sweet moment.
Luke Bilberry:So what about you, Dan? What what was a moment or maybe Shannon, you may help him out and call out one. When's a moment you're like, yes. I just I nailed it as a godly dad?
Dan Vandewarker:I wish that I had the personality that could sit in those moments, but I don't. I You're ready to fix the next always ready. I I yeah. It's really hard for me to look at it. I think probably this last summer, Declan and I went and we did this big bike ride, week long bike ride across Iowa.
Luke Bilberry:Because that's what normal people do. They ride across
Dan Vandewarker:the entire state Iowa. It was pretty fun. I think It's cool. I went into that with expectations of, like, oh, each day is gonna and it it have this, like, blissful father son moment, you know. But the reality is is you're riding all day, and then you have to set up a tent, and that's never that's never fun, you know.
Dan Vandewarker:And at the end of the week, the realization though that that I think both he and I came to was that it's okay. Like, you can you can have conflict. You can you can have intense moments and still be at peace with each other.
Luke Bilberry:And
Dan Vandewarker:I think, you know, he's he's 13 and I don't think he would necessarily articulate it that way. But it it just it showed me that if I'm wanting as I'm wanting him to grow into a godly man who has a strong voice, that I I have to and every every day kinda be willing to let him have that strong voice in the midst of me also having a parental voice.
Luke Bilberry:Right? Right.
Dan Vandewarker:Like a and I think your intro was was very kind and and welcoming to us. I think the reality is if you asked our pair if if you asked our kids about our parenting, Cohen, this last week, he said, you know, his his favorite thing to do is just hang out as a family. So that's that's awesome, humbling. Also, our kids would say that we're mean because we don't give them phones. They would say that none of their friends do chores and they have to do chores before they can have free time.
Dan Vandewarker:They would say they don't get enough screens, you know, like they Mhmm. So I don't wanna give this picture of, like, you come into our house and it's this clean utopia of no one's arguing, but you you always know where where we're at with our kids. I think that's the that's the value that we've tried to uphold. Right. And I wanna make sure that the, yeah, that the invitation is not here because we have things figured out.
Dan Vandewarker:I think anyway, I wanna give that kinda caveat to if you're listening to this and you come to our house, I don't wanna paint this picture of everything is always fine and needed. No. We we yeah. So one of the
Luke Bilberry:things I know about you, Dan, in particular, is that you love cycling. That is that is a passion for you. You love to talk about it. You love to think about it. But one of the things I see you doing is the work of cycling and the hard work that goes into it.
Luke Bilberry:I see it translated and in how you're raising your kids. But what would you say just because I think these things I think just fun for us to learn about you from other parents because it helps us. It helps me. But when you look at cycling and you look at parenting, where are where are the threads of similarity for you?
Dan Vandewarker:Yeah. It's just endurance, perseverance. What do you do with pain? Right? Pain.
Dan Vandewarker:John Foreman, Switchfoot pain gives birth to the promise ahead.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah.
Dan Vandewarker:Like, you can't grow in seasons of comfort, and and the best the best athletes are the ones who endure pain and and learn how to be strengthened from it.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah.
Dan Vandewarker:And so, yeah, Declan has ambitions, future ambitions, and and and so we, you know, we sit and we say, what are they? And we and we and I tell him, yeah. Well, you gotta pray about it and see how God provides for it. And, you know, he's he's learning. Yeah.
Dan Vandewarker:We try and have him solve the problems that he's seeing. But, yeah, I think it I think it's in in a nutshell, it's and it it brings about endurance, perseverance, suffering. How can you look at all those things and form a strategy to grow? And so from a from a Bible perspective, right, in James and this concept of being steadfast in the Lord all throughout the Bible, this concept in the Psalms when when God talks about all all of your moments of conflict, really, that that when you talk about finding refuge in God, those come in the midst of conflict. That God is with you and your parenting.
Dan Vandewarker:He's with you and your marriage in the midst of the trials that you're going through.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. No. That's so good. Yeah. And that's what I've seen, you know, on a few of the bike rides I've been on.
Luke Bilberry:One of the things you do, man, you always start that moment with prayer before everyone, like, wheels up. And then in that time, you're you're constantly giving them space, you're encouraging them, and you've asked quite I remember one time, man man, he was frustrated. Like, like, he was in that pain moment. The bike was messed up. Like, it just it just wasn't going it wasn't going his way.
Luke Bilberry:And there's that moment he came alongside. I mean, you asked this question, like, do you want me to fix it, or do you just want me to be with you? And he was like, I just want you to be with me. I don't want you to try to fix it. Like and you were just there.
Luke Bilberry:Alright. I'm a pedal. I'm gonna get in front of you. I'm try to give you a little headwind break. And in those moments, I see like that translation into how you leave.
Luke Bilberry:I think it's it's an incredibly godly example as you're using the scripture reference as well to say this is what parenting can look like. I can help you fix it. I can also just be with you in the midst of it and prepare you for what is to come. What would you guys say? So these are some big wins for you guys.
Luke Bilberry:We're like, man, we just blew it as parents. Because what I know about Dan and Shannon, you guys are crazy unified in your marriage, but you guys are also wildly different personalities. The introverts and the quiet and the book and the puzzle maker or the puzzle put together and then they're like, let's go fix something. They're they're the worst.
Dan Vandewarker:And the and the
Luke Bilberry:damn, like, I've gotta be doing something, building something, fixing something, moving nonstop, you know? And so I can imagine there could be moments of tension in your marriage on how to parent, but also there's probably moments where, I mean, you guys, oh, we should have done that differently. I could have done that better. Give me give me some examples.
Shannon Vandewarker:I think about when the boys were little, I I don't think we had a very intentional way of discipling them. I think we've always been involved in the local church, and that's been a value of ours and a value that we've passed along to them. But I think early on, I think I just I didn't know how to connect kind of discipleship with little kids and how to do that. And so I think, really, since we came to Chapel Point, I think that shift happened as we were surrounded just by other godly parents and watching that. And so I think I look back and and go, like, I wish that I would have started being intentional in discipling the kids earlier.
Luke Bilberry:What would that have looked like in your mind now if you're looking back in the rearview mirror a little bit? Mhmm. Well, it's like one or two things. You said, I could have done this a little more intentionally, or I could have maybe have tried this type of thing.
Shannon Vandewarker:Yeah. I think, especially when they were younger, I was very stuck on that, like, behavior modification. Like, don't hit your brother. Don't, you know, be mad at this. Don't don't do that.
Shannon Vandewarker:Rather than actually looking into the heart of it and what is what's causing that and then pointing them kind of back to back to Jesus.
Luke Bilberry:What would you say to the mom out there that's trying to do behavior modification? Mhmm. What would you say?
Dan Vandewarker:Well and so the the thing about behavior modification is that it it comes from a place of fear and anger
Shannon Vandewarker:Mhmm.
Dan Vandewarker:And control. Why? So that you because I'm fearful of what might happen to the kid. I'm fearful of what that means about me if that kid does this thing. I have to control them because it reflects onto me.
Dan Vandewarker:I'm angry, so I'm gonna respond. We take it personal. Parenting parenting is not personal. When it when you're when you're I mean, don't get me wrong. It feels very personal.
Dan Vandewarker:But but at its heart, parenting, we're we're each trying to to have a relationship with God. Right? And so the the child's disobedience is first an offense to God.
Luke Bilberry:Mhmm.
Dan Vandewarker:And so there was a there was probably maybe one of the more recent points of frustration in our home was Shannon has a desire for a clean house, which I think is an awesome idea. But we have two dogs and we have three kids. And they're very and they're very active. And you have me who has about 10 projects set up around the house at any given point that are partially finished. And, you know, she was she was frustrated because the house wasn't clean, and she she made a statement of, I just want it to be clean so that everyone can relax.
Dan Vandewarker:And I made a statement in response to her of and we're very direct and blunt with each other, which people are often surprised by. 100%. 100%. Percent. Measure how I do that.
Dan Vandewarker:And it's taken us time to get there as and it's not always whatever. So anyway, I said it's only my immediate response to her was that's it's only impacting you.
Shannon Vandewarker:Mhmm.
Dan Vandewarker:You know, and it's this desire to control. It was a desire to feel like things are and it was a right. It was a it was a hard moment. Shan took a probably about an hour of upstairs, and I I left at that point to to go and clean, you know, to to try. Because you do need to meet in the middle of But the the being willing husband and wife, you have to be willing to say the hard things to your spouse.
Luke Bilberry:Mhmm.
Dan Vandewarker:Because you have a shared responsibility to raise these kids to be Christ followers. Mhmm. And so if you aren't willing to address issues in each other's parenting and in your marriage, then that's that's just gonna carry on into your kids in the future.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Yeah. And in some ways too, what I hear even in that scenario that you're talking about is you're also modeling for for your kids. Like, we can have hard conversations. We can address things, you know, and and and deal with things appropriately, you know, and not have to put things away or blow up either, you know, into something bigger whenever it's frustrated.
Luke Bilberry:Here's x y z. Okay. X y z. Well, you know, this can this is we'll we'll move on to the next thing through this. This will what we'll get through the scenario and even modeling that with your kids and and and around.
Luke Bilberry:I've seen that. I've seen you guys do that in real life that and it's helpful because you're again, like you've said, Dan, before, I'm preparing my kids, you know, for for life essentially without me. And what does it mean for them to follow after God and to be a godly man or for, you know, your daughter to be a godly woman of God? I I wanna I wanna quickly just hear from you, Dan, just because I think it's fun because we're we're friends, and I wanna when's it when's a moment you've blown it as a dad? And then and then I just have some other questions to kinda thinking through things I know that people are are probably wrestling with as they're leading their kids in and around that idea of each kid's unique.
Luke Bilberry:So there's not like a blanket, we do this, you know, to get after their kids' hearts and to disciple them well. So but, Dan, when did you blow it as a dad? Oh, you're laughing. Shannon, would you like to tell you?
Shannon Vandewarker:I'm laughing because he's like
Dan Vandewarker:What is that?
Shannon Vandewarker:Grinning ear to ear. No.
Dan Vandewarker:I don't I think my biggest daily my biggest daily challenge is remembering that each of our kids are very unique. And so one one I I can't take the same approach with, like, the they all have such a unique personality, and they all they all need me to everyone in our house has a has a has a distinct way to be approached. And so the, probably the the biggest most frequent thing is is forgetting that in Mhmm. In parenting.
Luke Bilberry:Give me a good story. Come on now.
Dan Vandewarker:You're welcome to jump in here. This is a moment I
Shannon Vandewarker:I don't wanna throw it.
Dan Vandewarker:Let's Let's I you know, take a shot.
Shannon Vandewarker:I think there's times when both of us have a hard time owning our own stuff and not putting it on the kids. So taking our frustration from work or from another relationship and coming home and stepping into kind of that environment and the kids, you know, haven't done x, y, or z that we asked them to.
Luke Bilberry:And And it gets bigger than it should.
Shannon Vandewarker:It gets bigger than it should. And it's not really about the kids not doing that thing.
Luke Bilberry:It goes back to what you're talking about, Dan, the idea of control, fear, worry, how am I perceived? I just want some time to breathe and relax or whatever. I think that's such a helpful insight. And I want you I'm asking for these moments because I think all of us, if we look back, there's moments that every single one of us as parents goes, man, I just feel like I'm not doing a good job. And so part of it, when we level the playing field that we're all in this place of navigating this as we are growing as children of God to lead our children who are the children of God that are dearly loved.
Luke Bilberry:It allows us moments ago, man, every single one of us is still in process. So that that's the only reason I asked that. It's just I mean,
Dan Vandewarker:I think that the interesting thing, though, is it I think
Luke Bilberry:I don't
Dan Vandewarker:know if it's American culture or if it's everywhere, but certainly here in America, we I would say we we make an idol out of the nuclear family.
Shannon Vandewarker:Mhmm.
Dan Vandewarker:I think that the Bible spends a whole lot more time talking about the family in the context of the body of Christ. What is my responsibility to the Billberry kids as a Christ follower? The Bible talks a whole lot more. Deuteronomy what is it? Six.
Dan Vandewarker:Deuteronomy six. We hear that we hear that verse as a as a oh, this is my house. I will train up my kids in the way of the Lord. But actually, that was a call to the whole body of the people of Israel.
Luke Bilberry:Right? Or even, like, Joshua six nine, like, as for me and my house, we will follow the Lord. There there's there's a there's a people of God conversation that's happening there.
Dan Vandewarker:Yeah. We so I think we have to be careful to not make an idol out of the the nuclear family because in the in the Bible, it assumes that the nuclear family is living on mission together, and it's giving instruction to the broader body of Christ.
Luke Bilberry:Mhmm. That you're one small piece in a local body of Christ.
Dan Vandewarker:Absolutely. Yes.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah.
Dan Vandewarker:Yeah. And so yeah. I mean, I think that's there's there's days where our kids love that. There are days where it's like, hey. Who are we having over tonight?
Dan Vandewarker:And then there's there's days where they're like, we don't wanna have anyone over tonight. Yeah. Exactly. And so I think that we have to be careful in this conversation to not think about it as a what's happening in my house as opposed to maybe who are we bringing into our house. Mhmm.
Dan Vandewarker:How are we pulling other people into our into our kids' spiritual journey?
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. And there's times, like, you've asked me, like, hey, could you come alongside my boys in x y z? Hey, I wanna do this trip with your boys and my boys to accomplish x y z, like in the deception process to have these conversations. There's times I've probably been helpful in that, and there's probably times I haven't been as helpful in that, buddy. But that that community idea that you're not just isolated and you have to have all the answers as mom and dad, but use the body of Christ as resources around you.
Luke Bilberry:What would you say just some kind of questions in that idea of every kid's unique. One of the things I know about you guys is you all had lots of conversations about school. You know, we hear people talking about, you know, homeschool, private school, public school. What do we do? It feels like the world like, that feels like a really tense there's curriculum that we may not fully agree with from a biblical worldview or how do we navigate that?
Luke Bilberry:Because I know y'all have wrestled that as a family. But what would you say to the family that's going, I need them I feel like there needs to be a change in school. How do how do you navigate that?
Dan Vandewarker:Every kid's unique. So every kid so we have we have three kids. One's in a different district than the other, all in public school. We we want them to be involved in the process of of everything. So when there's a when there's an issue with the teacher, we help them have the conversation.
Dan Vandewarker:They hate it, by the way. So that's not a pleasant that's not a pleasant conversation. But when there's a issue with the teacher, we help them have the conversation. We don't we don't you can take the broader how do we and and and just but just kinda deep dive into we don't hover around their grades. We even told the teachers because they asked, are you checking online for their grades?
Dan Vandewarker:And we just say, no. Absolutely not. We we say our kids are responsible. They understand at the end of the semester, if they don't have the grades, then they're gonna have some privileges taken away from the next the next semester. And yeah.
Dan Vandewarker:So, I mean, we we try to keep our kids in the driver's seat as much as possible. And then I think as a again, as a parent, your job is to prepare. So probably the biggest challenge to any school system is staying ahead of the content that's coming at your child. Mhmm. But I I would also say unpopular opinion would be that as a pastor, I hear just as many challenges with private schools as I do public schools as I even do homeschool Yep.
Dan Vandewarker:Programs. Yep. And so none of those schools I think one of the biggest challenges facing kids today is that parents have intentionally or unintentionally delegated out raising their kids to any kind of a school system.
Luke Bilberry:Right. Yeah. It goes back to what you're saying. Like, I'm a part of it as mom, dad, a part of a community. And so if I feel like there's a moment that I get to take my foot off the gas of discipling, I.
Luke Bilberry:E. Parenting my kids, then then something is probably not in align with the way Jesus has called us and given us this opportunity. The easiest disciples for us to make are the ones he gives us literally into our homes. Right? And and what a gift that they are.
Luke Bilberry:The scripture tells us that, you know, it's Psalm one twenty seven that, man, blesses the man who who has children. They're like arrows in a quiver, but the reality, those arrows are meant to be launched out and and the sense to go accomplish a purpose and a goal. But I love that. Yeah. It doesn't matter where it is.
Luke Bilberry:There's gonna be challenges in that environment, but we wanna make wise decisions in that. So so, Shannon, any other thoughts you'd have kind of on making those decisions, involving kids in the process, you know, helping them understand the whys in that. But anything else you'd say to parents that are wrestling with that? Because they feel like monumental decisions. Like, make or break.
Luke Bilberry:But maybe that's not full reality. You know, maybe maybe we've built it up to be something bigger than it should be.
Shannon Vandewarker:Yeah. Choose something for a year, and then reevaluate. K. I think sometimes when we're making these school decisions, it's like, whatever like, I'm it feels monumental because it's I'm gonna make this decision for the rest of their education, and that's not necessarily true. There are lots of options for all of our kids.
Shannon Vandewarker:And so see if something works. And if it's not working, then reevaluate. Pray about it. There the the only, like, godly education is education that is filtered through the the lens of discipleship. Mhmm.
Shannon Vandewarker:That can happen in public school. That can happen in private school. That can happen in homeschool if you are intentional. Right. And so for us, it's having lots of, you know, discussions of just really intentional.
Shannon Vandewarker:Who did you hang out with at lunch today? What are they talking about? You know, what are what's going on in in their lives? And then following up with, are you praying for them? How can we serve them?
Shannon Vandewarker:What are the things that you think that they need? Yeah. And sometimes those questions are met with crickets of, I don't know, mom. You know? But it's it's just starting them thinking through that lens of their everyday life, and that can happen in any sort of environment.
Luke Bilberry:No. It's really good. Maybe kinda last, like, you know, hot hot button topic because you talked about a little bit earlier, Dan, is is technology with kids. From a biblical standpoint, help me to make wise decisions to lead my kids well. What would you guys say about technology and the discipleship process for children?
Dan Vandewarker:I feel you staring at me.
Luke Bilberry:I I what? Whoever whoever wants to answer it.
Dan Vandewarker:I think, first and foremost, have a biblical reason for why you're doing what you're doing. So look look to the Bible for your for for what you're doing.
Luke Bilberry:So unpack that some more. Give me some like, say say, we wanna watch a movie as a family. Yeah. And you Help me pack that
Dan Vandewarker:up. So find so one of our kids wanted more independence for the kind of music they can listen to. I I said to I said to them, I said, I want you to I want you to look at the Bible, and I want you to to find some Bible verses that you're gonna use to to filter through the kind of music you're gonna listen to and to help me understand why I should give you more responsibility. And I said, you can go talk to mister Drew, who's our our student guy here. I'm sure he'll help you with this, and he can but I want you to use the Bible to help me understand how you're gonna go about making decisions.
Luke Bilberry:That's a that's a great example. I I think that's just you involve him in the process, using scripture as a filter, and then from that, deal with the ripple effects. If he makes a bad decision, figure it out.
Dan Vandewarker:And then another person bring into it. Right? Yeah. Because regardless of how you do it, I know that no matter what approach I take when I'm talking to my kid, they're gonna feel like I'm hitting them over the head with the Bible sometimes. And so it's I think it's important to have not that that's a bad thing, but to have other people with the voice of that conversation.
Luke Bilberry:Right. Isn't that that classic parenting moment like, you've been saying the same thing, but then all of a sudden someone else comes alongside and says it, and you're like, you won't believe what Drew just told me. Yeah. Bro, are you serious? I literally told you that yesterday.
Dan Vandewarker:For sure. And I think you can call her bluff too. Right? Yeah. So there's times where
Luke Bilberry:Good point.
Dan Vandewarker:There's times where they'll be like, well, pastor Luke wouldn't do that. And I'll just say, well, let's call pastor Luke and ask him. You know? And and, yeah, we can follow all of pastor Luke's rules if you want, or you can or you can or we can keep down the road and we're going. Yeah.
Dan Vandewarker:Okay. Alright. You know, there's this, like That's so funny. That's so true. Yeah.
Dan Vandewarker:Yeah. So I think well, I don't know. I think it's just
Luke Bilberry:yeah. So kind of last question. It kinda comes back a little bit to Shannon, you mentioned something earlier, like, wish I had when I was a younger, you know, younger mom or first had kids. But what would you guys say to people who who are wanting children and want to be parents, feel that calling, feel that desire, or maybe in that early stage, what are the three things that they should do and and how should they engage in this process of becoming parents or starting out on this parenting journey?
Shannon Vandewarker:I think that it goes back to this kind of bigger picture of, like, what is family? I think sometimes when there's a desire to have family or when you are in the throes of having, you know, babies and toddlers, it can feel very, like, overwhelming and and kind of this, like, we have to focus on this very small thing. And I think if you can open up your perspective about truly what family is and invite others into it, others with older kids, others with the same age kids as you, grand grandparent age people, to say, we know that we can't parent these kids Mhmm. On our own. And what does it look like to have the body of Christ come alongside of us and just have people Mhmm.
Shannon Vandewarker:Around our kids. I mean, we have been intentional about inviting people that we we love and we admire their discipleship, inviting them into our kids' lives.
Luke Bilberry:Mhmm.
Shannon Vandewarker:So you have a relationship with each of our kids that's separate
Luke Bilberry:from the coolest thing. When Declan comes and stands next to me, there's, like, this moment. Like, I I think he just wants to, like, he just wants to hang, and I'm, like, we're friends. This is awesome.
Dan Vandewarker:Well, I think that's we I mean, we have given you authority. Right? Whether you whether you feel it or know it or not. Right? Like, we've that's part of this body of Christ is we've given you authority to speak into Mhmm.
Dan Vandewarker:To say whatever you need to say Yeah. To to And that's not for everyone. Right? Right. But not everyone gets to do that.
Dan Vandewarker:Right. But there's there's there's a group of people that our kids know that that hopefully those people know that they have more ownership and and voice in in those kids' lives No. In our kids' lives.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. So bringing the right people around you and even naming that because, you know, you you, Dan, have had that conversation. I want you to do that. That's the the giving authority. I want you to be able to speak.
Luke Bilberry:Feel free to call him on this. Feel free to, you know, reach out to him on on whatever it is and and say those things. And so you've given that space. I think that's a huge, huge value add because it feels like sometimes, you know, being in the kid early stage of the toddler phase, man, you're just trying to survive at the end of the day. But if you actually bring people in the process, you realize it's it's much more beautiful.
Luke Bilberry:It's super messy, but everyone's in that same stage, and we all walk the stage. And so everyone once you're kind of in the parent club, you're like, oh, yeah. You know, like, my kid's noise bothers me, but everyone else is, like, smiling, you know, and we're like, like, you know, yeah. And but it's that thing like, no. We're in this together.
Luke Bilberry:And so I love that idea. As as we wrap up this, Dan, would you just look at the camera and and pray a blessing over the people who are listening, blessing over the the people as they lead and disciple as parents? Because it just feels like that's an appropriate way to end, you know, just even thinking through the reference you called that earlier, number six, is that beautiful prayer, you know, of of what does it mean to to lead and to guide our family. So just I'd love for you to wrap up our time, Pastor Dan, as you pray a blessing over everyone who's who's listening, who's watching.
Dan Vandewarker:Yeah. And I think, yeah. From your parenting will flow downstream of the foundation that you've built within your within your view of parenting, within your view of even your marriage if you're married. Yeah. So being really clear on what are you called to as a family.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Not so good, man. Alright. Yeah. God, we
Dan Vandewarker:we give you praise, Lord.
Shannon Vandewarker:We
Dan Vandewarker:I think back to to Genesis and just that you created this world to be perfect, to live in perfect relationship with you, to have a perfect balance, and yet we have we now live in a broken world that is in that is in a fight against all things godly, that is in a fight against all things holy, And parenting, Lord, you've created parenting to be this picture of what does it look like to live in relationship with you. So I pray for the parents listening that you would strengthen each of them in their walk with you, that they would parent from the overflow of their heart, that they would give you glory, and then they would learn what it means to be interdependent upon the body of Christ in that journey, Lord. I ask this in your son's name. Amen. Amen.
Dan Vandewarker:Amen.