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Get a seat at the table and build the design career you want. This podcast is for designers looking to break in, level up, and take control of their careers—whether you're freelancing, climbing the corporate ladder, or just trying to get noticed. Every two weeks, we dive into career fundamentals, design best practices, and the hottest topics in the design community.
So I like, one side of me agrees fully, but then the other side of me is all also, like, when how do we get better then? And then we being, you know, the best practices as a whole. You know, how can we improve that best practice if we're just going to do the best practice?
Tyler:No. I see what you're saying, like, but what does that mean? Like, what like, the the north star is to make business. And we're officially live.
Nick:We're officially live. Exactly. I mean, this is just an experiment. So a question that came in for one of our listeners is Alright. This per this person is concerned, you know, that all the things they're designing is something, you know, that they see around them.
Nick:Someone has already made it before. So, you know, is that okay? Is that a problem? I'm insecure that maybe I will be found out. My clients might not like it or just will say tell me, like, hey.
Nick:Our competitor does this too. Like, is this a problem? Is this fine? Like, what do you think?
Tyler:I think it's absolutely fine. Like, to compare it to, like, musicians, all notes have already been played. It's hard to reinvent the new thing. I think this is like a Silicon Valley thing where it's like you're chasing it's the brand new entrant in the market that doesn't have any competitors. Like, that's the shining that was, like, the vision that's been perpetuated over the last couple years.
Tyler:I don't think that's that's a nice fantasy, and that's, like, not 1% of of all companies, but it it is okay to be another player in the market and replicate or compete with existing features. That's that's how you skip over the product market fit. If you enter in a place where there's already competitors and you build another version of it, you've already validated that product market fit exists. You skip that step. You're now you're now making a better you know, make making a better product to serve the client even better.
Tyler:So it's it's I don't think it's a bad thing at all. I think it's a good thing, especially if you're starting out in in entrepreneurship. Like, don't don't invent this new thing doesn't exist. You have to when entrepreneurs start, they they their first at bat is not their last at bat. It's try and fail, try and fail.
Tyler:I think a good way to do that, especially with, like, AI and all these tools that everyone's building something, build a better mousetrap and just like, there's more than there's more to it than just creating the thing. There's the marketing. There's the customer success. There's, like, all this that's around it. I think it's really it's I think it's okay to to build a better master.
Tyler:Do you
Nick:think that applies to designers from all levels of seniority?
Tyler:I think that's perfectly fine. Like, what's the, like, what's the counterpoint there? Like, what is the is the fear that, like, it you're you look like you're copying someone's work? Like, is that is that you think that's the fear?
Nick:I think that's the fear. I think we as designers, because of how visually we are, like, we make something to look at. Mhmm. I I think I see within the design community quite often people being called out. It's like, hey.
Nick:You designed this thing. It looks very much like this other guy's thing. You know? And then some people are like, well, but it's just a dashboard. You know?
Nick:It's just an onboarding or a login screen. You know? So I I I think we're all pointing fingers at each other, maybe a bit too much. And but I also think, yeah, you cannot be unique. You know?
Nick:We just have best practices and patterns that, you know, in people in a user's mental model, they bring their experience from different platforms to your platform. So if you do something completely different, even if it's better in theory, people might be more confused because they are so used to the sucky standards. You know? And maybe it's also a bit of, you know, fresh out of school, I'm going to change the world type my mentality. You know?
Nick:I'm going to be new and unique.
Tyler:Yeah. I think to to your first point, I think if you're a junior entering the market, like, it is good to copy, like, or steal like an artist, whatever the term is Yeah. Because you're you're learning you're learning your base level. Like, I may copy this this I see this great designer did this thing. I'm gonna copy it one to one.
Tyler:You have to learn how to how to how to first design properly, and then you can kind of deviate. But, like, to your point, like, there are standards and practices. There is one way to do a checkout. We've like, we're we're playing with, like, the conversion and adoption game. You don't wanna design an a a unique checkout experience because it's people are used to how check how ecommerce websites work.
Tyler:You pick a thing, you check out, there's one, two, three. It it looks exactly the same because I expect I know I've I've seen this pattern before. I'll complete it quicker if it's something a pattern that I've already seen before. If I create something new with, like, a floating parallax checkout, you're gonna increase the friction and then decrease the checkout percentage.
Nick:That makes sense. Yeah. That's true. So I like, one side of me agrees fully, but then the other side of me is all also, like, when how do we get better then? And we being, you know, the best practices as a whole.
Nick:You know? How can we improve that best practice if we're just going to do the best practice?
Tyler:Well, I see what you're saying. Like like but what does that mean? Like like, the the shining like, the north star is to make the business succeed. Like, what is what is I know there's the there's the designer in us, and then we have this Mhmm. This toxic trait where everything has to be unique and special, Yeah.
Tyler:Does it?
Nick:Well, I maybe I have a good example. Maybe maybe we can make this very practical this this episode. Yep. As luck would have it, I'm currently in this month, in July, I'm I'm working on multiple pricing pages for clients. You know?
Nick:Mhmm. Earlier this year, I had a you know, let's all work on onboarding, and now they're all telling me, like, hey. Let's work on pricing. There and I'm talking pricing on the marketing website. You know, you click pricing in the top menu, and then you have all these cars and comparison tables.
Nick:You know? Mhmm. I think there's a very strong best practice there. Yep. And when I say strong, I mean often used.
Nick:Not per se the design quality is strong, but it's just like every pricing page you look at, You know, it has, you know, free starter pro enterprise Yeah. You know, with little cards, with little check marks, and then you have the each card has a button to get started. Right? It's you know, and then maybe below it, you have some comparison table with crosses and check marks. Like, you know, does this plan have AI support?
Nick:No. Cross, but then pro plan, check mark, yes. If you would go completely crazy there and do something new, know, you like you might feel the urge to do as a designer
Tyler:Mhmm.
Nick:Your your point comes into play. You know, people expects a table to compare or people expect a list of check marks. If it's not there, people might feel like, maybe this is a shady business because they don't really tell me the things they're doing or blah blah blah. But then also at the same time, I think, like, let's say you have three plans to choose from. They all have this get started button.
Nick:Mhmm. But then when you click one of those three buttons, it doesn't really matter which one you click because you're still going to end up in a trial. And then at the end of your trial, you have to choose again. So my I'm thinking, why would I, you know, bother a user with those options in the beginning when it doesn't really matter and when they don't really know what to pick? You know, why not just have one button?
Nick:Like, hey. This is our list of pricing options. But, hey. You know, have your trial first, and we'll come back to it later. So I think that's better.
Nick:You know? Just get people through the door quicker. But then I'm also aware that it's very different from what everyone expects to be there. So stakeholders might not like it because, hey. This is not how we do it.
Nick:This is not what I've seen competitor a and b do. Mhmm. You know? So it's hard to sell. And I'm also not sure if people will understand it because they're so used to the current, in my opinion, shitty way of doing things.
Nick:Yeah. You know? So, yeah, let's pause there. What do you think?
Tyler:I have so I have so many thoughts on a pricing page, how simple it is, but there's so much like, people think a pricing page is simple, and you probably discovered it is not simple because there is, like, psychology behind it. Like, I would say if if it is the case that you're forcing people, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't force people to a free trial. Like, they've the user or the client has given intent that they want to pick that package. You've laid out free to tier one, two, and three.
Tyler:And then if you're doing your job correctly, you are free is fine. Is this the taste of what you have? Tier one has some of the features, but then we you leave out two or three because you wanna you want people you wanna upsell or, like, show the value of the next one. So there's always something missing. So you create value, but you create a problem.
Tyler:It's solved by the next tier. But if it goes to, like, a free a free trial, even if it even if you have four cards that lead to a free trial, you've measured intent. Like, if you're tracking it properly, you can you can check the analytics which tier is getting the most traffic. That means you now as a business know which what are user asking for? What do they want?
Tyler:Regardless of if you if they sign up for a free trial and at the end, have to pick their package, there's something to learn there even if it's just like even if it's if it's just going through a free trial. And also if you had one option, like, it might convert less because I just have an option to pick. Let me choose. As a user, let me choose which one I want. And if I have an option, I'll convert more.
Nick:Right. So what you're saying, if I understand correctly, is even though they will end up on a trial and it doesn't really from a user perspective, it doesn't matter which they choose in the beginning. You would still make them choose because it gives you a good better understanding and extra data point of which of those three buttons is clicked on most often. Exactly.
Tyler:And then also, like, once your free trial expires, if you've tracked what decision they picked, which if they picked one, three, or four. If they pick four, you know what email marketing to send them once their free trial is coming up. Like, your free trial is coming up. Do you still want to pick package four? Like, it's a good way to carry the momentum.
Tyler:That's right. Yeah. That makes sense. You know,
Nick:I I feel kinda junior now because I want it to be design only and just make it better and easier to get people in. You know? Trying to think business by saying, well, like, well, more people getting started means more people sticking around. But then having that, you know, remembering what they picked in the beginning, you know, that unlocks all sorts of usefulness later on. You know, maybe you know, because I I one client I work with, they have, you know, three bracket packages.
Nick:You pick one. You get on a regardless of the one you pick, you go to a trial. And during the trial, everything's unlocked. You know? So you're on basically for a few days, for fourteen days or so, you're on the highest plan that they have.
Nick:And then at the end of your trial, you know, you lose those, you know, pro features. Yep. Even so then they have to pick again.
Tyler:Maybe in
Nick:that case
Tyler:Yeah. Go ahead. May maybe in
Nick:that case, you know, because I what I wanted to do, maybe I just have to turn it around. Like, you have twice the same question. You know? Pretrial, you get a question which plan, and at the end of the trial, you also get a question which plan. I want to take away the first question before.
Nick:Maybe you can take it away at the end where you're like, okay. You you clicked pro in the beginning. Maybe just display that card the second time because we remember with the small button show all. You know? Because now currently, you we have the full pricing page in both cases, in both places, you know, so before and after the trial.
Nick:Like, there's no difference.
Tyler:Yeah. That's a good idea. I think there's different ways to, like, slice a pig here. Like, there the free trial like, the entry to the free trial works great, or there's the I picked a thing. I'm gonna I'll just pay for it immediately.
Tyler:Remove the free trial. But I see there is value in the free trial because they've picked a thing, but then you give them everything so that, like Mhmm. Now they have access. They wanted this package. They'd because they wanted to use this set of features.
Tyler:But now they have everything, so they they're exposed to the next tier, which is a great technique. Like, I've come in because I wanted to use this package. This software is great. Free trial ends. Oh, no.
Tyler:I actually wanted those two check marks on the on the next level up.
Nick:Yeah.
Tyler:Let me let me upgrade.
Nick:Yeah. So you would let let let's say the difference between two plans is, you know, that's webhook stuff. You know, things you can you know, external apps you can connect to your, your SaaS. Like, plan a doesn't have webhooks, plan b does. Someone clicks plan a for trial.
Nick:They don't expect webhooks to be there, but then turns out they are there because it's a trial and only during the trial, we give them everything. As in, you know, if you would be, like, a purist, like, everything has to be clean and user friendly, blah blah blah, they would probably have some doubts about that technique. You know? But then as a business owner, you know, business minded designer like yourself, I can see the the the trick there. You know?
Nick:And it's Yeah. People run into it and they're like, oh, that's that's useful. Yeah. I do want this. Let's upgrade.
Nick:You know? That's what that's an upsell. Isn't that a bit of much of trickery, or is that just
Tyler:I don't think
Nick:smart, like, smart business work?
Tyler:I think it's smart biz it's like, you can probably summon it out there would say that's a dark pattern because, like, they they asked for one thing, but you're showing another thing. But, like, your job as a biz it's like, the features that you're offering, they they should be solving your problem. That's why people are are buying it. So because I'm showing off a feature that you don't have yet, it's not dark pattern. It's just like this we created this feature.
Tyler:It has immense value, but it's gated behind something you have to pay for because we built it. Like, you you have this there's there's a sucking cost to build a feature, and you have to recoup that back. There's the sucking cost. There's a breakeven point, and then there's revenue. Like, that's what you should be doing as a business.
Tyler:Like, that's that's fair. And, like Yeah. The dark pattern or actually the best practice is you sign up for package two. It doesn't have the webhooks, for example. I'm gonna I'm gonna basically during that, whether it's a seven day free trial, I'm gonna show you how to use your package, but I'm also going to be promoting how to use this other thing that is not part of your package that will remove so, like, you see the value of it.
Tyler:I don't think that's a
Nick:Yeah.
Tyler:Bad thing. It's just it's a good business move because you're showing the value of all the tools that you've built, that you've invested in building for that specific customer base. Right.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I I yeah. I mean, I think brainstorming like this, you know, what we're doing now, I think that's really the power of, you know, two designers talking things through, you know, brainstorming.
Nick:And I think that's the way of designing something new, you know, just to go full circle to that that first question that we ask. You know? All I'm everything I design has been done before. Yeah. I mean, I think this is the way to make small steps into a a better direction.
Nick:Right? It doesn't have to be completely new. But just talking to you now and thinking about what you're saying gives me, like, one or two pointers to make things that I'm working on, like, 1% better.
Tyler:Yeah. I mean, like, here's like, listen to where we started at, like, a a pricing page. They all look the same. They're not like, visually, yes, some of they have three or four cards with a popular tag or most popular, whatever the tag is, like, that's one like, they look the same one on the surface, but what happens on the back end or that experience becomes unique because it's not everyone's customer base is the same. So that needs to be tailored to the, like, the trap the the amount of users you have, the amount of volume of users signing up, whether their needs are, what is your business offer, that that's different.
Tyler:That's unique. But the pricing page is just the the gate to get them in. And, like, there's best practices there because it's been tested and tried over the last, I don't know, thou not a thousand years, but however long the first pricing page ever existed. Like, there's there's best practices, but, like, there's a unique flow afterwards.
Nick:Yeah. That's true. Yeah. So so maybe the I I have to wrap my my head around all of this because I think that those last few sentences really helped me to to better formulate the this whole battle that we have in design, you know, and where some people say, like, it's not important or it's super important, like, the whole battle. Like, well, I can just generate something.
Nick:You know, but it's it's like that that iceberg model, you know, with, the surface thing. Like, hey, that's ice. But then underneath, under the surface, there's so much going on that we as designers have to think about as well. So that whole question of everything I design has been designed before. Yeah.
Nick:Unless until you go underwater and see everything that isn't visible right away. I think that will be my default answer going forward to anyone who feels that way. So I think that's the I'm that's probably the this episode in one sentence summary.
Tyler:Yeah. Because, like, at the surface, like, here like, to go like, to give another example, like, you were to go onto Dribbble and look at it, I'll go back to the checkout example. Yeah. Like, oh, I love this checkout. Let me just let me just copy it and apply it and then just design it.
Tyler:One for one for my business. A couple of things you're gonna run into is that your products are different. So the naming of your product is different. You the descriptions of your product is different. So the character length may be different from the one that you see in Dribbble because you need the title is important.
Tyler:Description is important because that describes what product you're building, and and that's the value that someone's taking and then checking out with. Like Yeah. The character lengths have to change, then that means, like, the sizing, the UI density has to change. Like, the the skeleton is great, but you have to fit it to your to your business, and it's never gonna look one to one. If if it ends up being one to one, you've now inherited flaws that you didn't think you'd be bringing over.
Nick:Yeah. As if the thing you saw on Dribbble was perfect. You know, that's a wrong assumption. That's I mean, this saying this, the thing you're saying now, it basically takes away the need for all those those lead magnets. You know?
Nick:Here's here's a pack of 200 high converting landing pages. You know? Or here's a prompt 50 prompts to get you high converting landing pages. Yeah. Because what if what you're saying is true, which I think it is, by the way, so I'm, you know, I'm I'm agreeing with you Mhmm.
Nick:Is, like, there's none of those 50 prompts or none of those 200 examples will be exactly the thing you're looking for because all of these different factors, you know, pricing, mental model, user, target audience, like Mhmm. Features, all those things combined. Like, there are so many different combinations possible, you know, also are that your situation is not there. You know? It's those packages are inspiration at best.
Tyler:It's a good starting point. Like, yes, those I've I've because I've downloaded those packages. They're okay. Like but, like, they they they've been made so generic that they've lose they've lost their value. Like, the
Nick:Yeah.
Tyler:The the most highest converting landing pages is the most niche to landing page. Like, you probably like, for business, you don't have just one. You have, like, maybe you have several. And it's unique to the to the ideal customer persona that you're targeting because there's no, generic sign up. There's usually, like, seven different versions, and then they're tailored specifically for based on, like, the demographic, whether it's age, location, intent, etcetera, and they convert higher versus this generic thing.
Tyler:So they're Yeah. Like, they're a good starting point, but it like, in any landing page, if we're using that as an example, you're gonna have to refine, optimize over time, change a button here, change a tagline. Like, that's gonna evolve. It's a good starting point, but it's not it's never gonna be the finish line.
Nick:Before we continue, if you're feeling stuck in your design career or if you feel like you're doing solid work while no one really notices, we've got a bunch of extra stuff on our website.
Tyler:We're building a community for product designers to actually learn, grow, and get hired, not just scroll and collect more inspiration.
Nick:There's also articles, checklists, and courses.
Tyler:All based on real world experience from both of us. No fluff, just what actually works.
Nick:Check out designtablepodcast.com. The link is in the description. Yeah. You know, listening to you and and talking about this, all I'm thinking is, man, our job is great. It's never
Tyler:it never like, it at surface level, like, if you're looking at all social media, it's it is more complicated than than we make it up than what's being published. Like Yeah. We have so many challenging problems to tackle. It's it's it's never a dull day in the designer. Mhmm.
Nick:Designers designers will I mean, there there's such a big gap between what a designer does. Like, you explain it on a birthday party compared to what you actually do. Like, when you are a designer, like, a strategic position, like, thinking about mental models and and target customers and ICPs and all that stuff. Like, there's like, I you know, I almost feel like a scientist, a math scientist, like like, bringing all these things together and getting the best results. I mean, that's super cool.
Tyler:That's funny. That's that's the one reason I don't go to, my kids in day care. They have, like, bring your parent to work day so they can show off their job. I've never gone because I am not I'm like, hey, kids. Here's a funnel.
Tyler:What am I gonna do with with I can't I can't nothing in what we do is tangible. Like like, it's the line explained it to me like I'm a four year old. Like, how do you explain what we do to a four year old? Can't. It's so unique and and intricate that, like, to your point.
Tyler:Yeah. I always freeze and twitch when someone asks me,
Nick:like, what what do you do? You know? Like, I wanna say, like, well, do you have an hour? Because then I'm going to talk you through it. But Yeah.
Nick:I always stutter and then say something. Well, you know, I I design software, you know, you know, websites and and that kind of thing. And they're like, okay. I've seen a website before. You know?
Nick:I'm like, yeah. That's why I use a website, but there's so much more to it. We I I think we should challenge ourselves, like, to to write the best what is product design article ever in the shortest way possible. Like, see if we can That's okay. Refine that endlessly.
Nick:Because the reason we're talking about this topic today is because even junior designers don't really understand what design is. Mhmm. You know? Because when someone tells me, I'm afraid that everything I'm designing has designed has been designed before, it tells me that they look at the surface level. They don't really understand the layers beneath underneath this, which you know, that's I mean, and that's just an observation because I'm not blaming them because, you know, they're entry level.
Nick:They're junior. They're fresh out of school. They don't know. I didn't know when I got out of school. Took a while to figure that out, but maybe it shows a a problem, you know, in in how they are, you know, the things they learn in school.
Nick:You know? I think they in school, they learn tools mostly.
Tyler:Yeah. But also I think it's part of its pattern recognition. Like, we probably like, when I started my career, Dribbble was the thing I looked at, like, oh, look how impressive and talented all the designers are. Looking at it now, and I know, like, it it's not a lot of people use it now. Like, I can I'll go there for inspiration, but I
Nick:There's there's no shame in this. You know? It's I'm not going to storm out of this studio knowing that you will visit Dribbble, like, every day, the whole day. You know, I don't I don't mind. It's fine.
Tyler:Alright. Alright. I'm shocked.
Nick:Well, in that case
Tyler:Yeah. But, like, if I'm looking at a a Dribbble content now, I'm able to assess if there if it's just pretty or it works. Like, I can see if I look at a dashboard and I have, like, KPI this, keep it like, okay. This is just someone who's exploring some UI, some UI direction, like different shadows, typography colors. So I know if I'm borrowing inspiration, I know not to copy the UX.
Tyler:I'm probably copying just like the UI treatment because I loved, like, how they manicured this one component. Yeah. But back in the day, like, when I saw like, I don't I don't know. Like, this looks like someone's professional. I'm just gonna copy because I'm gonna copy the UI and the UX because it looks great.
Tyler:And then inevitably, you hand it over to the engineer and they spit in your face because, like, what is this? So it doesn't this is not logical. Yeah. That's that's the loop that that that makes you better and have a better understanding of, like, what good UX is versus, like, just copying the UI.
Nick:Also, you know, the last episode we talked about, you know, the the if AI makes design more or less fun and then mental health of of people, you know, just designing something and looking at it and making it work, you know, like you say, copying the UI only or also the UX, you know, and all that kind of stuff. I think it's way easier to to validate that and and, you know, see if you can actually do it, if it makes sense to also bring along the UX in your, you know, in your ceiling or in your copying. It's just a random thought. Yeah. I had them on That's
Tyler:a 100% true because that's what I do now. Like, it used to be historically, it's been a design fake my thing, and then I'll create a prototype. And I'll try to do as many of the edge cases that I think exist. But now since I'm building the prototype, I'm able to actually validate that what are the actual like, it's not my assumption of what the edge cases are with or the or the actual edge cases that I need to fix or, like, the friction points. And now I have a better I have a better conversation with the engineering team because, like, I've gone through this fast, I have a better understanding.
Tyler:We're at the same level versus I think this is gonna work. Please let me know. And then there's that loop of, no. Did you think about this? No.
Tyler:I'll come back and design it. Did you think about this? You know? Like, we're both we're both talking the same same language. Yeah.
Nick:Yeah. And because it's faster, you can like, let's say, like, two years ago, it took you a week to create a static thing, and only then after a week, you would get the the feedback like, hey. This edge case, you didn't think of it yet. But now in that same first week, you could have thought of those edge cases, like, before you hand it over the first time because you were so much quicker. One thing I ran into with a client is and I'm curious what you think about, you know, this is still about the I'm designing something that's already there.
Nick:We started to work on improving an existing part of the dashboard, and we try to improve just the the literal thing that we already has, like a top area with some info on the dashboard. Mhmm. You know? And the top area had to be improved because it wasn't really good yet. But because we were so, like, tunnel efficient on improving that thing, we made, you know, like this like that very old saying goes, we made a faster horse, but we didn't make a new thing.
Nick:And it doesn't really work if the thing you started from is, you know, kinda broken, not really not really useful. It's also very challenging to take a step back and just start from scratch again. And then funny enough, and, you know, designers will not like this, but the developer had the breakthrough idea. You know, they came up with the car instead of the faster horse. You know?
Nick:They're really the new thing thing. And then, you know, it came back to me in the end because I do had to do UI polish and think through, you know Yep. Different things and do prototyping. So I didn't mind. I was very happy with the the developers breakthrough, but that's something new.
Nick:And I'm sure you can find another example of it, like another dashboard where they have the same thing. But within the little worlds that we and the client lived in Mhmm. It was new. It wasn't designed before. And mentally, that was a big moment.
Nick:Like, yeah, we were all very happy to have that breakthrough. You know? So I think that's, you know, a very cool example of, you know, designing something, quote, unquote, new.
Tyler:Yeah. Because there's there's in that example, there's bias there. So it's like the same example when you bring a mock up to the engineering team. It's like, oh, here's what you wanna do. It's like, oh, in their eyes, we're gonna build this.
Tyler:Yeah. Versus, like, let's come to the table, think about something new. Don't have any reference. Like, pie is this guy. You get to explore different variations or different concepts without being anchored to this this visual idea.
Tyler:So, like, the developer in your case, like, hey. I have this complete different separate. Yeah. If we like to explore that, I think that's great because, like, that's the name of the game. It's, like, removing the main character syndrome.
Tyler:Like, anyone's I'd anyone can bring their idea to the table. That's what collaboration is.
Nick:Yeah. That makes sense. We have to step over our own shadows and and egos as designers. Like, you know, more people can design. Yeah.
Nick:So yeah. So okay. I I think we have a great answer there. And I know don't know about you, but I feel like extra motivated now about this realization of of, you know, good moment to remember how cool the design job actually is if you're allowed to do to execute the design role the way that it's meant to be. You know?
Nick:Because I know there are a lot of designers who are just you know, they expect you to just, you know, pixel push. Just give us the mock ups and don't think about it. Just, you know, just want the mock up. Yeah. It's less fun in that position, I think, unless you really enjoy the puzzling of the the pixel pushing, which is fine too.
Tyler:It's fine. But then that but part of, like, the pixel pushing is understanding the person that's gonna be using the pixels that you push. That's a tongue twister. It's like that like, at the end the day, like, the concepts may be the same, but what's unique is the users and the business, which makes the design unique. So it may Yeah.
Tyler:Fund may high level conceptually be the same, but there's a unique experience tied to it because, again, the business and the users are different. So it makes it you're not technically designing the same thing unless you cop literally copy and paste one for one. Yeah. That's true. That's true.
Tyler:Okay. Well, that's that answer
Nick:question that's question answered. I have to say it the right way around. Did you see anything cool this week? Any, you know, design oops moments or something really cool where you're like, that's inspirational?
Tyler:I'll tell you something that I discovered this week on the job that, like, it's AI related, but it's Of course. Blew my blew it blew my mind. So we use MixPack panel for our analytics. Testing and yeah. Yeah.
Tyler:So, like, we launch features. We tag different UI UI elements so we can see what our users are doing. Mixpanel came out with an AI agent, which is just another word of saying a chat, which is, at service level, seems very whatever. But for the first time, I can now my workflow is I have Claude connected to GitHub,
Nick:and I
Tyler:have Claude connect and then I basically understand if I prompt Claude to say, like, I'm working on this redesign for this page. Give me all the Mixpanel tags that have been implemented. And now I wanna investigate how I can redesign this feature. So give me the prompt to ask Mixpanel agent, like, are what are the high volume flows within this page? And then it's able to kinda spit out, like, here's here are the high chart flows.
Tyler:Now I have a better understanding of how to redesign a page, which is, like, amazing to me. Like, historically, it was speak to a business analyst, make them do the investigation. I can because I'm connected to GitHub, I understand what's being tagged, and now I knew know the exact prompt to ask Mixpanel to give me the results that I need, and then I could design the right thing. Initially, in that product, I the assumption was there was one particular thing wrong wrong with, like, a page, quickly validated that it wasn't. I was almost gonna design the wrong thing, and I ended up designing the right thing.
Tyler:Like, the scope was bigger. Now I reduced the scope because this is the actual problem to be fixed. Like, the problem in the end was we had a save button, but the save button would push you to the next step. But the user intent was to save their progress because they didn't want it to be lost. But we were adding friction in the process.
Tyler:So, like, instead of just hitting save, continue my work, we were saving, kicking them out, had to go back in, edit, do my changes, save, and be kicked out again. Now the solution was basically just add a save my progress button. As simple as that versus a three or four sprint solution now was, like, a half a day fix.
Nick:And that's all because you instead of all the data and the talking were on two islands, now you were able to connect it all together and and be quicker and more in the know. I mean, that's really cool. So the clicking save assumed that you were done. Save, next Yeah. In one click.
Nick:While people were probably on that page for a while, they were concerned, like, what if it freezes? What if it crashes? What if I have to leave? Mhmm. I'm just going to save in between.
Nick:Exactly. And then they were, like, halfway through the form or filling in something. They clicked save, and then they moved to the next page while still, you know, in progress.
Tyler:Yeah. Exactly. Like, the And
Nick:then they had to go back and okay. Yeah. Yeah. So then then I save my progress. That was so that's basically the button with but without going to the next step, and then there was probably something next to it, like, you know, literally a next button or a continue button.
Tyler:Yeah. It was save progress was the new button, and the next one was now updated the copy, save and continue. So it's it was a step in the process. There's a funnel there, but, like, they wanna just save the work and and keep iterating on this step until they're ready to move to the next step.
Nick:Nice. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And you figure that out by, you know, seeing the, like, the the data flow.
Nick:Like, people would do, like, step one, step two, step one again instead of step three. Like, hey. There's something there.
Tyler:Yeah. Exactly. That like, they're looking at the analytics. There were more edit events than create events, obviously, but, like, the, like, the disparity between it was a lot. And then but the time between the create and the edit were it were too close together.
Tyler:It was, like, less Right. Like, like, thirty seconds. So, like, it's clear that they had saved, like, oh, no. I need to go back. So that Mhmm.
Tyler:It wasn't that people love to edit the screen. It's just that they weren't done.
Nick:Nice. Like, user like, oh, man. I I love this whole fintech stuff so much. Let's click reset and do it again. Yeah.
Nick:Yeah. I mean, but this this really I I I think this is a great example of how that talking between systems is really helpful and how, you know, a quick fix can really, like, really make a big impact. Maybe bigger so than, you know, like you say, doing a three sprints of analyzing and figuring things out. All you had to do was, you know, change your label and a bit of behavior. So, yeah, it's really cool.
Tyler:Yeah. A a good plus for AI this week.
Nick:Yeah. Nice. Alright. Well, that's, you know, like I said, this is very motivating episode. I am going to think about it some more and talk about it some more and see if I can write that ultimate, you know, product design definition article.
Nick:Because I think we have we have the transcript. We have the episode.
Tyler:Just don't make AI write it. Make sure you No.
Nick:Of course not. Oh, of course not. Yeah. You know? I have more to say on that, but that's, you know, maybe for, you know, outside of recordings or in new episodes.
Nick:Otherwise, we will just, you know, be here for another hour. Until next time.
Tyler:Alright. That's another episode in the bag.
Nick:Yeah. Great episode. By the way, if you're stuck second guessing your work or trying to figure out your next move, drop a question in the comments or leave a review. We might actually feature you in one of our future episodes.
Tyler:And if you got any value from this episode, hit subscribe wherever you're listening. It helps more than you think.
Nick:You can can find everything else, resources, articles, and more at designtablepodcast.com.
Tyler:Thanks for being here.
Nick:See you next time.