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In this episode of the Hydrocarbon Engineering Podcast we’re joined by Geoff Moody, Senior Vice President for Government Relations and Policy at American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers (AFPM), to review the first year of President Trump’s second term in office.
We’ll consider the impact that the Trump administration has had on fuel policy in the US, examining:
- The US Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) tailpipe emissions standards.
- Energy policy reform.
- The Renewable Fuel Standard.
- And much more.
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Host
What is Hydrocarbon Engineering Podcast?
The Hydrocarbon Engineering podcast: a podcast series for professionals in the downstream refining, petrochemical and gas processing industries.
Hello and welcome to the Hydrocarbon Engineering Podcast. I'm your host Callum O'Reilly and in this episode I'm delighted to be joined by Geoff Moody, Senior Vice President for Government Relations and Policy at American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers. As 2025 draws to a close Jeff is going to help us to review the first year of president Trump's second term in office and discuss the impact that it has had on fuel policy in The United States. Before we dive into today's episode, a quick note. This conversation was recorded before the Trump administration released its proposed revisions to federal CAFE standards.
Callum O'Reilly:Since then, AFPM has shared its perspective on the proposal with the following statement. We're encouraged to see this administration working to put CAFE back on solid legal footing, consistent with the Energy Policy and Conservation Act. We're optimistic these revisions will keep standards ambitious, yet achievable for internal combustion engines, support a more efficient fleet, and protect consumer choice. You can find AFPM's full statement on their newsroom at afpm.org. I hope you enjoy the episode.
Advert:As a special thank you for listening, we'd like to offer you a free trial subscription to Hydrocarbon Engineering Magazine, the leading publication for the global refining, gas processing, and petrochemical industry. Each issue is packed full of technical articles, case studies, and regional reports from around the world. Visit hydrocarbonengineering.com/magazine to get your free copy today.
Callum O'Reilly:Hi, Jeff. Welcome to the Hydrocarbon Engineering Podcast, and thank you for taking the time to join us. How are things with you today?
Geoff Moody:Wonderful. Thank you for having me on. Looking forward to the conversation today.
Callum O'Reilly:It's a pleasure, Jeff. Thank you again for joining us. So, Jeff, you're here to help us review fuel policy through the first year of president Trump's second term in office. Now before we jump into that, can you just tell us a little bit about AFPM and your role at the association?
Geoff Moody:Absolutely. Well, thank you again. And for those of you listeners unfamiliar with us, AFPM is a national trade association. We're actually one of the oldest trade associations in The United States. Our membership is the refining industry.
Geoff Moody:So we have approximately 90% of The US refining capacity as members of ours. We also proudly represent pet chem manufacturers as well as midstream assets. The downstream industry is what we proudly represent, and we advocate for the industry in Washington and The States, among other things. As far as what I do, I am the senior vice president for government relations and policy, which means I oversee all of our advocacy at the federal and state level. We interact a lot with federal agencies, members of Congress, and states around other types of policies we'll be talking about today.
Geoff Moody:So I have a have a team here that that helps me on that, but that's my day to day function.
Callum O'Reilly:Great. Thank you, Jeff. So well placed to help us out with the topic of today's conversation. And I wanted to begin our review with an issue that actually began before president Trump took office. So the US Environmental Protection Agency's tailpipe emission standards that were finalized under the Biden administration.
Callum O'Reilly:Now the AFPM has been very vocal on the impact of these standards. Can you explain to us why AFPM saw these rules as problematic and what impact do you believe they would have had on consumers and the fuel industry?
Geoff Moody:Thanks for the question. Just to step back and at a at a very high level, the Biden EPA finalized tailpipe standards. So these are standards for automobiles on how much greenhouse gas carbon they can emit out of the tailpipe. The standards were so stringent that EPA estimated it would have required well above 50%, approaching two thirds of new cars to be electrified, either fully or in large part by 2032. So basically, call it a 60% EV mandate for new cars over the next few years.
Geoff Moody:Our major concern is how much choice this would take away from consumers. So right now, consumers have the option to buy any kind of powertrain that meets their family's needs. So if you want an internal combustion engine, they can buy that. If you, you know, want an electric vehicle, they have that choice as well. There's different types of hybrids.
Geoff Moody:At the end of the day, our concern was that these were so stringent that we were removing the ability for consumers to choose the car that best fits their needs, and of course, that we supported the administration taking a new look at those. That was on the federal side, and then in parallel, there was an effort by both the administration and members of Congress to overturn California's full ban of the internal combustion engine, which also was finalized over the last couple of years. And they successfully overturned that ban, which impacted not only California but a dozen other states as well, comprising, I think, nearly a third of the new auto market. Would have been EV mandate by 2035, and Congress overturned that earlier this year. So major changes, all positive for consumer choice and the auto market this year.
Callum O'Reilly:So, Jeff, as you mentioned, President Trump and EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin have made a significant dent in energy policy reform, including reconsidering the tailpipe standards that you mentioned, CAFE standards, regulations that could have restricted production of key fuel components, and previous approvals for California's gas car ban. So what's your reaction to these policy moves? You you mentioned that they're broadly positive. And can you tell us how Americans might benefit from these changes?
Geoff Moody:Well, I'll take that ending question first. The benefit for Americans is they're gonna be able to buy cars that meet their needs and will have the ability to do so more affordably than they would have otherwise. So on the rescission of the California car ban that that took effect back in, I think it was June, that means that consumers in California, but also much in the Northeast, other parts of the country will still have the ability to buy a gas powered car in a few years. And up until June, that was not a foregone conclusion. First, the consumer choice is critical.
Geoff Moody:I would say the APM reaction on all of this is, look, we broadly support what the administration is trying to do with reconsidering these tailpipe standards. We have proposed different ways to improve efficiency and reduce carbon emissions without without harming consumers' choice in what they buy. Getting feasible greenhouse gas reductions out of internal combustion engines, but not doing so in a way that actually becomes a mandate for a different type of powertrain altogether. And we submitted comments to that effect, and we're hopeful that the administration follows through on some of its reforms. Yeah.
Geoff Moody:Broadly positive for not only our industry, but for consumers looking for choice in what they drive.
Callum O'Reilly:Okay so let's move on to an issue where AFPM hasn't always seen eye to eye with the Trump administration, the renewable fuel standard. Can you please remind our listeners what the RFS is and share AFPM's main concerns with the EPA's latest proposal?
Geoff Moody:So the RFS has a long history. It's in its twentieth year now, actually. So it was first passed in 2005 and then expanded greatly in 2007. The easiest way to understand it's a mandate for our industry to use certain volumes of certain types of biofuels. And it goes up every year, has in the past, basically billions of gallons of biofuel required for use every year.
Geoff Moody:The two primary biofuels under the standard are ethanol, which your listeners will be familiar with when they go to a gasoline pump. You'll see a little sticker oftentimes that says may contain up to 10% ethanol. So it's ethanol blended into gasoline. And then biodiesel or renewable diesel into the diesel pool. This is a statute that's been around for a long time.
Geoff Moody:The issue we have right now is the administration recently proposed the most aggressive standards in the history of the RFS, the most aggressive mandate since the inception of the program. Our estimate is that this will likely cost upwards of $70,000,000,000 per year over the next couple of years in compliance cost. You know, that's a mix of costs to our industry certainly, but also to consumers as the market passes these things through. They're also so high as to be unachievable with domestically produced fuels and feedstocks. What we're doing here is actually mandating volumes so high that we're going to be required to import feedstocks from other parts of the world in order to meet this renewable fuel mandate at the expense of products that our members make.
Geoff Moody:A lot of problems with it, but if I had to point out our two major concerns, it's the high cost and feasibility of the standards both on kind of the market level but also the cost level.
Callum O'Reilly:So Jeff I think it's fair to say that if President Trump wants to be known for anything it's deal making. So is there a way that President Trump or even Congressional leadership can make an elusive RFS deal and bring the two sides of this debate together?
Geoff Moody:I think the answer is yes. And there's a lot of, I'd say, positive conversation happening among stakeholders and with policymakers. But at the end of the day, we're all producers of liquid fuels. And the president, we share his vision for as he puts it, energy dominance. We think that he wants to get to the right answer on these things, and he's caught between a refining industry that he very much supports as well as an ag industry that he very much supports.
Geoff Moody:And, you know, so I do think there's space for something to come together on something that looks more like a more reasonable standard and that would provide certainty to both sides. So, yeah, I I think so. That said, there's twenty years of history on this program, and a lot of water has gone under that particular bridge. These are hard conversations, but I I think there's room there.
Callum O'Reilly:And finally, Jeff, can you talk us through the current status of the twenty twenty six-twenty seven RFS proposal? And what can our listeners do if they'd like to learn more or become engaged in this?
Geoff Moody:So a couple of things. There's been two proposals on the RFS this year. There's the base proposal that I just referred to that's $70,000,000,000 per year price tag on the fuel supply. EPA has not finalized that rule yet. And in fact, they just closed the second round of comments on actually supplemental volume, so even enhanced volumes on top of the base proposal.
Geoff Moody:So they're in right now making decisions about what to do and whether to layer these mandates on top of the industry and the American consumer. So two things. I would say first, contact members of Congress, urge them to oppose unrealistic and unachievable RFS mandates. And second, if you want to learn more, there are a lot of resources on AFPM's website that explain all these issues in much more detail and I would direct your listeners to come to our website, our blog, to learn more.
Callum O'Reilly:Okay thank you Jeff. It's been a bit of a roller coaster year or so for fuel policy in The US so we really appreciate you joining us and shedding some light on the changes that have come into effect since President Trump came to office. So thank you.
Geoff Moody:Happy to do it, and I think the most surprising thing is it's it's only been a year. It feels it feels like much longer. So but but all good. We know, it's been a very, very positive year for the fuels industry overall, know, I appreciate the the opportunity to come on and and talk about some of the things going on.
Callum O'Reilly:Great. Thank you very much, Jeff.
Geoff Moody:Thank you.
Callum O'Reilly:That brings us to the end of today's episode. A big thank you to Jeff for sharing his insights on evolving fuel policy in The US and what all of this means for American consumers and producers alike. If you'd like to learn more about the issues that we have discussed you can visit afpm.org for additional resources and I'd like to invite all of our listeners to check out our other conversations that we have had with experts from AFPM on the hydrocarbon engineering podcast this year. We've spoken to Lara Sweatt, Vice President of Technical and Safety Programmes about process safety in the downstream sector and we've also been joined by Rob Benedict, Vice President petrochemicals and midstream who discussed the outcomes of the final round of UN negotiations for a global plastics treaty which took place back in August 2025. Both of those episodes are available to listen to now for free along with other interesting conversations that we have had with thought leaders in the downstream energy sector.
Callum O'Reilly:Thanks for listening and for your continued support of the podcast. Please rate and review, and don't forget to subscribe to ensure that you never miss an episode.
Advert:As a special thank you for listening, we'd like to offer you a free trial subscription to Hydrocarbon Engineering Magazine, the leading publication for the global refining, gas processing, and petrochemical industry. Each issue is packed full of technical articles, case studies, and regional reports from around the world. Visit hydrocarbonengineering.com/magazine to get your free copy today.