Episode 24 - The Chaos, The Calm, and The Compassionate Warrior.

Show Notes

Welcome to your weekly dose of The Psychedelic Psychologist. In this episode we meet Karl who is just off his first psilocybin experience. In the preparation for the therapy session he knew not to have too many expectations, and to do the proper work to get ready for the journey he was going to need to surrender. And with his motivation to find love for himself and heal his relationship with his dying father he took the invitation with pure courage.

Karl describes the journey as chaotic and yet found strength and peace in "the storm". We process the emotions he now is walking with and the immense gratitude he has for facing "all"  of himself in the experience. 

You will hear a true compassionate warrior in his tale of healing with psychedelics. 

You can learn more about working with psychedelics and integration support by checking out the following.
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook --At Amazon
and
Healingsoulsllc.com

What is The Psychedelic Psychologist?

The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.

Take a moment and find a place
of safety, quiet and comfort.

In this moment, I invite you to explore
what it feels like to connect with.

Yourself,

giving yourself all the bandwidth,
all the space to connect with you in

whatever that looks like, feels like,
and sounds like, and as you breathe

in and breathe out, finding the self,
finding the comfort within yourself.

And potentially recognizing some
edges when they give you permission

to be with yourself, for yourself,
breathing in and expanding out.

Now, as you connect with yourself, I
invite you to add a flavor of love.

That feels right to you.

This flavor of love shining a light
inside of you warming you up and allowing

you to feel the abundance of what you
deserve breathing in and breathing out.

Self love.

As you take all of that in, I encourage
you just to simply be still in this moment

and when you're ready with no
rush and absolutely no urgency,

opening your eyes to see the room.

To see yourself a little differently
than when you first started this process.

Hi, it's Ryan.

Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I

invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.

We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction

and severe depression.

To finding wholeness and spiritual
emergence today's podcast.

You're going to hear from one of my
guests, Carl, who has a beautiful story

and an expressive way of sharing his entry
point into the world of psychedelics.

Carl.

It's great to hear you.

It's great to see you.

How are you coming in today?

I'm coming in, very, , Calm today.

Let's overcast skies and feels
like a day of reflection.

So I'm coming in nice and calm
with a perfect way to, dive in.

When you reflect the first question
that often comes up is do you

find yourself comfortable in a
place of calm and reflection?

, yes and no., a lot of times I do.

Enjoy the calm and the stillness., but
I do have moments where I'm like, what

else could I be doing?, so it's always
kind of a, there's always a tension

there, but I found, I find myself
leaning into that calm space a lot

harder than I usually have you bring up
such a wonderful question of what else.

Do I have to do in the
year 2022, we're so busy.

We're so inundated with
stimulus and expectations.

What's the voice that you say
when you notice this desire

to keep moving or keep going?

I honestly, , I always come back to the
voice of like, be patient with yourself.

There's there's no timeline.

How fast things need to get done.

You know, that timeline
is, a construct of.

Who we are as a species.

So it's like, just let go of that.

There's no need to get anything
done unless it's, you know,

an emergency., I love that.

I love everything about that.

Especially considering we're talking
highly about the experience of

healing through psychedelics, this
beautiful expression you just gave of.

There's no timeline, there's
abundant space and opportunity.

What did you do to
witness this invitation?

How did you recognize the
invitation of psychedelics in

your life as a healing modality?

, it honestly started with a dear friend
of mine who had done the experience

and said that it, it really transformed
how we thought about life and,

and,, I was intrigued and I've been.

Practicing, partaker or clients, if you
will of talk therapy for many years.

And, I kept coming up against a wall, if
you will, or a ceiling where I never felt

like I could tap or break down, some of
my barriers against really seeing myself.

Value valued and deeply
loved, by my family.

And it just always felt like I could
talk about it that intellectualized

like that I wasn't responsible for any
trauma or family issues that weren't

mine, but I could never fully digest
it or integrated into the hole of my P

You're bringing up a super valuable
point in that talk therapy is a

beautiful and necessary process.

Yet there can be a ceiling, right?

This, this intellectualizing
it or over dialoging.

It can be limiting.

Give me a, yeah.

Yeah.

Give me a picture of what you started
to recognize., in your friends or

what brought you to this idea of doing
psychedelics yourself personally?

What were you hoping for and
what was your motivation?

part of my motivation was, I was
going through an intense grief period

this summer of losing my dad., and
in that process was bringing up all

of the past pain of childhood and of.

My life and in seeing what had transpired
with my friend in terms of his own

journey with addiction and, and feeling
of what, what is beyond just the basic

day to day life, and how he seemed to
have a new, not Lisa in life, but a new

kind of outlook where things didn't.

Drive him mad so much, if you will.,
and I was intrigued by that., my,

my experience with psychedelics has
been very limited in my life, and.

I had never really thought of it.

And when you told me that it was a
transformative experience, I'm like,

well, okay, I've been in talk therapy
for a long time and I've come a long way,

but I've, there's what I call like the
three quarry issues of feeling enough.

, the pressure of feeling like
I don't measure up to what the

expectations of my parents are.

And, Being able to love myself.

Well, wow.

And those are those three.

I kind of like, you know, returned to a
lot in talk therapy, but never, like I

said, I just kind of always felt like I
came up against something that was really

preventing me from integrating that.

Sure.

And so it's like, well, alright,
I've done this long enough.

I feel like I've exhausted.

Process with talk therapy, so to speak,
or at least in this, in this particular

setting, that I've been a part of.

So I'm open to what else is out there.

And I've always been an adventurous
person or tried to think outside

the box on daily living or, and I've
also been a practicing Christian

spiritual person for most of my life.

And, you know, when, when he seemed
so convicted about how psychedelics

impacted his life, I was like,
well, you know, what's the, what's

the harm in, in exploring this.

I love it.

I appreciate your transparency because you
bring up three points that are so valuable

that you sound like you're working towards
with intention when you and I talk.

And also you need to have that
courage and that adventure

in you because, psychedelics
aren't for the faint of heart.

So coming in were those
the intentions that you.

Were recognizing as you were
considering a therapeutic experience.

Yeah.

The self love, the identifying your
worthy and accepting of yourself.

Yes, very much so.

I mean, that was, and, and trying
to heal like some of the, you

know, how to, how to digest.

Having a very complicated relationship
with a, a loved one that is, you know,

part of my DNA and wrestling with
the complication of the relationship.

But also now seeing that that relationship
physically is gonna be ending soon.

How's the emotions that come up right now.

Carl, when you say that out loud, what
are you hearing yourself and feeling

into, The first thing that comes to
mind is like the grief of almost like

finally being able to acknowledge that
the emotional side of that relationship

has been missing for a long time.

And I've never really wanted to
admit it because it's so painful.

and.

You know, I think that's
what I'm getting at.

When I say like, I keep coming up against
something it's like, I never felt like

I could actually fully claim that, that
that relationship has not been what I've

needed as a, as a son or as a person
wanting a relationship with their father.

Wow.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

I see a very, very courageous and I
hear a very powerful person in that.

It takes a lot to acknowledge what
was provided to us as children and

what we were hoping to lean into.

Right.

You said lean into mm-hmm it's a lot.

Yeah.

Can you share with me as we maybe take
a slight pivot, all of the information

you were coming into intentionally
and what you and I processed prior.

What was the experience like for
you as you took the invitation

to work in the healing capacity?

What, what, could you paint us a
picture of what then, transpired

throughout your experience?

Yeah.

First, you know, I felt very comforted in
terms of how we entered into the process

with, you know, picturing a, a table
and who I want to invite to that table.

I was kind of surprised that honestly,
who I invited and who I left out, you

know, the invitation was my stepfather,
a dear childhood friend and my in-law.

And who was left out was my wife and
my immediate parents, , and my sibling.

And so that kind of set the stage
for, you know, I'm like, okay, you

know, I feel good about this and what,
what ended up transpiring for me?

I word that comes to mind is very chaotic.

And yeah, psych psychedelic specifically
suicide and can provide without

becoming sadistic or humorous.

Here is chaos is definitely
a part of this process.

Is it not?

Yes.

And I was not expecting that.,
and although it was super

painful and almost hard to.

As I was going through the
experience,, what I realized in,

you know, the conversations you and
I had before was that it's kind of

like lifting the veil so to speak.

And what I had realized is I had
constructed a realm of which I

could survive in my day to day life,
where everything felt managed, where

everything felt compartmentalized.

and chaos is kept at bay and that's
through ignorance through, denial through,

you know, various coping strategies just
to function in the world in which we live.

And what I realized is once
that veil lifted was that in my

unconscious, there was an immense
amount of pain and chaos that I had.

I had chosen to ignore
or run away from, or.

Hide because of what I worried it would
say about me or what I was feeling like I

couldn't handle., and being able to see it
with like would felt like very clear eyes.

,I was then able to kind of,
it's like kind of being able to.

To one's self, like it's okay.

That this is all out of
control because I've got you.

We're gonna be okay.

And, you know, I'm kind of giving
a bird's eye view of like my

transformation through the experience.

That's wonderful.

Yeah.

So clear you talk about
through a clear eyes.

Almost that classic metaphor of being
in the middle of a hurricane, the

eye of a hurricane, as chaotic as it
is there became, if I'm hearing you

correctly, a sense of trust and peace,
even though the defense mechanisms were

down, mm-hmm, exactly explore with
me what you came up against with that.

And what were the tools and what were
the invitations that the medicine

provided you through that chaos?

Yeah.

I think, , the one thing that I, I,
I replay in my head a lot is the,

there came a time of which I felt like
a brick wall was on my right side.

And that wall kept closing in on me.

And on my left side was what I,
the vision I can relate to is.

At the end of a doc, so to speak.

And I wanted to go back to the right,
because that was what I've known, what

I trust, what I, what feels real to me.

And on the left was this dark of unknown.,
and a certain point, I just, there wasn't

any other option except to go to the left.

And it wasn't until that, like, I
felt physically that I rolled to

the left, that all of a sudden I was
in a free fall going deeper into my

subconscious unconscious, and which
I started to feel a little bit more

free, but the chaos was still with me.

, and then it came a time when, when I.

Kind of hit some sort of bottom.

And I felt all this weight on top of
me in a very physical way, where I

felt restricted and constrained and
almost, and, and talking with my wife

almost felt like being placed into
a box where you cannot move at all.

Wow.

Again, rolled to the left and realized
all that weight was able to slide

off of me where it was like, this is
all it takes is to just reject the

pressure, reject the shame, reject
the mistreatment, the cruelty, and.

Almost like save yourself from
the free falling elevator.

That's about to smash into you., it's
an intense picture and all the while I'm

hearing a sense of calmness though, a
sense of confidence that you can do that.

And you were doing that
throughout the experience.

Yeah.

And I don't think I was able to
recognize the calmness until, you

know, the hours and days after.

, but.

You're right.

I mean, it, it definitely provided a lot
more steady spirit from within myself

where I'm like, it's gonna be okay.

Yes.

And you bring up such a, such a
significant,, point in the days and

hours and weeks after the experiences.

If we're too close to the
experience, sometimes it feels as

if, what, what are we learning?

What are we gleaming?

What was this all about?

What were those metaphors?

And yet what I'm hearing from you right
now is this understanding that with

some time, with some distance, from the
experience, things have landed with more

clarity and with more certainty for.

Absolutely.

Can you share with me,, what you're
chewing on at this moment, knowing

that it's been a couple of weeks or
so from your experience, how, how are

things being integrated and what are
you doing to keep them,, cultivated?

Yeah, I mean, I, I think the, the
theme that keeps coming back for me

is that the word that always comes
up on a daily basis is boundaries.

And I, I think for a long time,
I always thought of boundaries

as they're always negotiable
because you need to please people.

And what I'm realizing is that
boundaries are more like they can

be flexible, but they can also
be very firm and I need to be.

More diligent with my boundaries and
where I grant that flexibility and

where I don't., and so I guess how
I integrate that is more checking.

It's almost like a daily
practice of checking in with

myself of how does this feel?

Do you need anything more that you're
not getting?, and what, what needs to be

reevaluated like on a daily basis, whether
it's how I'm spending my time, what I'm

saying no to who I'm saying no to and
what I'm also moving towards, you know,

We talked about having,, calm and,, more
space to be with myself, even though it

used to be very hard for me to do that.

I've kind of learned that if I don't
do that, then I, I will, that chaos

will return, and it's almost like.

You know, somebody asked me the other
day, like, would you do it again?

And I, my first reaction was,
no, I would not, I don't wanna

relive that experience, but it's
because of the immense pain I felt.

But now as the weeks have gone on, I'm
like, well, I would do it again because.

I now I'm not so afraid of that chaos,
because it's like, I, I don't know.

No what a terrific explanation,
because that is quite often, what

I hear is will you do it again?

And based off of the outcome, We can't
be too quick to say yes or no to it.

As things are still falling in place.

Mm-hmm, speak to me a little bit,
Carl, about reconciling all the things.

When someone has the three desires,
self love worth, but also this

nuance of grief that's lingering
in your life at this given moment.

What do you do with that?

And how are you operating in that space?

Hmm, I would say

it's almost like,

I keep picturing like, the image
of somebody like a dear friend

putting their arm around you.

Or like, or of myself putting
the arm around the younger

me the five years, beautiful.

Carl that's resides within and saying
like, we're, we're in a different place

now that we now have understanding
of what I've been through as a child.

And.

But also the wisdom of being an older
pers of myself to say we have more

tools to utilize, to protect, to stand
firm, to endure and to enjoy life.

So.

It's like saying like, you don't have
to rely on that fight or flight or,

you know, blowing up or overreacting
like you did when you were a child.

Like we can do this in a better
way that the outcome is gonna

be more full, more, sustainable.

, With the intensity, that
answer your question.

Oh my goodness.

It's beautiful.

It, it answers it perfectly.

The idea, Carl of knowing that there's
work to be done presence to be done, and

that we're living a human experience, that
we still might get thrown off our square.

And especially with grief and especially
with loss and reconciling our childhoods,

knowing that we can be the ones to lean.

Child like self and mm-hmm,
protect them and reassure them.

That's ultimately what
I hear as self love.

Help me understand what's on your horizon.

Tell me you said I, I would
consider doing it again yet.

When do you know that feels right to you?

I, I don't know that I know
exactly when it would feel right.

I'd say at this given moment.

I am really trying to integrate
these, the, the self love

and the boundary, aspect.

, you use the word, courteous or con maybe
it was courteous, compassionate warrior.

And that really landed with me.

And I, I think, you
know, for right now, I'm.

Trying to embody that by being
compassionate with myself first

and then with others, but also, you
know, making sure I guard myself

to the things that I necessarily
don't have a lot of control over.

but I do see.

It's on there's on, on a, like
there for me, there is a, a desire

to go back into the rabbit hole.

So to speak to, now that I have like
a more awareness of like, What some of

these chaotic key players are for me,
whether it's the pressure or the weight

of feeling restricted or traumatic
injury from a childhood surgery, like

now that I've identified those, I'm
like what would happen if I went back

and like really tapped into those.

how would they, how would my perception
of that weight be different now that it's

like rolling around in my head on a daily
basis, you bring up a very good point.

This idea of now that the
experience is more understood.

And as you said, so eloquently, these
cast of characters are identified.

You can go into it with a little
bit more of, an awareness, a sense.

Comfort and yet be, as you heard
me say, a compassionate warrior for

yourself to know, Hey, I might be
able to deal with this, or I might

not be able to deal with this.

And that is okay.

Mm-hmm what do you owe the
psychedelics this experience?

What, what would you say you owe
and what have you walked with

today in the sense of gentleness?

I would say what I owe is that it, it
allowed me to, I, in the conversations

I've had with loved ones about or
trusted, loved ones about this experience,

I, I keep coming back to the analogy
of being able to take my garden bed

and get rid of every single plant
that was an invasive species out of.

And reset that fertile ground in
saying this is mine and mine alone.

And from now on, I'm choosing what's
planted in here., or the, the greater

spirit is choosing what's planted
here that I'm not gonna allow these.

Horrible things to take root inside of my
soul anymore., and I really think, I don't

think I would've been able to come up with
that without the psychedelic experience.

I thank you because what I witness in
you and the gratitude and the humility

I have as witnessing and supporting
you is truly a compassionate warrior.

Carl, thank you so much.

You're welcome.