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Welcome to an aviation podcast that caters to all aviation enthusiasts, ranging from pilots to airplane spotters. Our show covers a wide range of topics, including private pilot training, airline operations, and the latest aviation news. Our knowledgeable host, an experienced airline pilot with eight years of flying under his belt, is thrilled to share his own experiences and offer valuable advice to help you pursue your aviation dreams. We are here to support you on your journey, constantly wishing you Tailwinds & Sunshine!
Welcome back, aviation enthusiast. This is a Tailwinds Sunshine podcast. Today is part 1 of a 3 part series with my friend Vanessa Montano. I sat down with her about 3 weeks ago, and we talked about her life as a student pilot. Vanessa is a SkyWest flight attendant.
Manny:She has been for about 5 years, but currently is on leave so she can attend pilot training down in Phoenix, Arizona. So we sat down and really, really dug deep with a few topics. First of all, we talk about how as minorities, we have a hard time achieving our dreams and how our family who is supposed to be our support system in our safety net can actually tend to sabotage us a little bit because they don't have the capacity to push us or give us a tough love to achieve our dreams, and how can that be that can be a hindrance. Also, we talk about the SkyWest Pathway program for SkyWest employees that are not pilots, that wanna become pilots, and so she gives us a little bit color about how that works. Also, we talk about how choosing the right flight instructor is vital to your success and how having the wrong instructor can actually cost you money, and she's gonna short share her story with us today.
Manny:Anyways, enough talking. Let's get on with the show. From the Baltimore Studios in Colorado Springs, Colorado, this is the Tail Winds and Sunshine podcast. You know, I don't know if that's your intent and just kinda start the conversation from there, you know, because I found out that sometimes when you communicate that, the person was not even aware they were doing that, and they'll back off a little bit. Possible pilot, deviation, I have a number for you.
Manny:Adviser to 8 copies.
Daniel:Dude, this triple 7 has been really fun to fly. It's honestly just a bigger Embraer 175.
Manny:But the fact that they were sitting on that runway knowing there was a heavy coming their way, unacceptable.
Vee:I'm from the central part, so I'm from a town we have more cows than people where I come from. Very country.
Patrick:The aches I have, I can go on. Number 1, when the jet bridge is pulled back and we're ready to push and you guys don't have your headsets on Plan has to be perfect because you can't turn that. You can't turn right. The only way out of that, if the pilot gets into a bad spot or if there's something that's, like, happened at the airport that shuts down a runway, the only way out is up.
Manny:Hey. How's it going, everyone? Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for spending some time with me today. My special guest today is Vanessa Montano.
Manny:Vanessa, welcome to the show. Hey.
Vee:What's up, man? How are you?
Manny:I am doing phenomenal. I am so happy to be talking to you today because you have a lot of valuable guys, if you guys, if this is the episode, if you're gonna listen to any episode, this is one of the episodes you need to listen to especially if you're an aspiring pilot. If you want to get and start flying planes for a living, this is the episode for you because we're gonna be talking about the struggle. We're gonna be talking about the dirty details of what flight training is when you're really struggling. Right?
Manny:So Vanessa is now in Arizona, and she's there by herself. You know, she is working hard, and she's gonna tell us all her story. So Vanessa, let me see. Like, give me give me a little bit of a background. What's up with you?
Vee:So I was a flight attendant, prior to wanting to do, flight school, and I was a flight attendant. I was based in Boise for 2 years, based in Salt Lake City for 3 years. So I was a flight attendant for 5, and I knew that I always kinda wanted something more than that. Right? We all know and I speak for flight attendants.
Vee:I'll always be a flight attendant at heart. But also being a flight attendant and or being a pilot is usually sometimes it's never really easy, but things that are worth it are never really easy. Right? But I wanted more out of life. I loved exactly what I did.
Vee:I'm like, man, how cool is this? I get to wake up every morning in a different city, and I gotta have breakfast and go look and explore and all this do all this other stuff. But I'm like, man, it would be so nice to be financially stable or it would be so nice. I'm like, what can I do the exact same thing but be better at the same time? And so Right.
Vee:And I got the kind of the can of worms kinda got opened up when I was in Boise. I lived in a airplane hangar, and I went flying, with my friend, and it was kind of the craziest thing. He was like, Kate, it's your turn. He's like, you can take off. And the moment that I pulled the yoke back, the moment that I pulled the yoke back, and I saw how the horizon and everything just went up, and I was like, oh, man.
Vee:I was like, this is what I wanna do. This is what I wanna do. So it kinda always lived in the back of my head. I went back to Utah. It was right before COVID, and I actually had signed up and got started going to school, but it was right before COVID.
Vee:COVID happened, and so that kinda put everything on pause, which that's kinda how that works. Right? So Right. Right. I went to the ground school.
Vee:Things didn't seem to work out. I wanted more of a structured program and so I found a structured program and I came to Arizona.
Manny:Now you talked about you started flight training, but then you found you found a structured program. Talk about talk about, a little bit about that.
Vee:So I found I actually found a couple structured programs, but and that's the thing that's kinda crazy is I know that it is sometimes is tough. I applied to actually quite a few schools. I went back to Salt Lake because I knew that that's where my support system was at. And, I thought to myself, like, okay. Cool.
Vee:Like, if I can get my support system because I know that, like, the loans are hefty, and I know that you have to sacrifice. And I was gonna put in for a leave of absence in which I'm on a leave of absence currently right now. But it's one of those things where you have to understand the sacrifice. And so with the sacrifice, with the sacrifice of that, that's where I decided. I have a friend who came down to Arizona, and she's like, hey.
Vee:Like, things are going really good for me. I've had an I bid for an overnight to come to Phoenix, and I talked to her. And she's like, oh, I just got my PPL and, you know, it's so cool. Like, I have missions every day and do all this stuff, and I thought, okay. I have been here.
Vee:Code happened. I'm like, I know that I need to have a structured program. I'm somebody who needs a little bit of structure, which sometimes some people are really great. I'm not saying that I don't have the drive for it to me to not have structure, but it is nice that if I can just focus on the one thing. Right?
Vee:And so Right. I thought about it, and I've always been afraid of, like, programs that are available for me or you or anybody else because I thought, like, I'm afraid to leave my job. I'm afraid to leave my job.
Manny:What
Vee:What if something happens, like, I'm afraid to leave my job? But then I'm, like, they wouldn't just offer a leave of absence if they wouldn't just leave a leave of absence. They wouldn't offer a leave of absence if they didn't want us to do it. So I thought to myself, like, okay. I'm just gonna do it.
Vee:I'm just gonna do it. So then Right. I, applied for it, and that's where I found the structured program. And, there's there's pros and cons.
Manny:Absolutely. But I think the biggest takeaway from from your story here is that it's definitely taken that plunge and making that sacrifice to step into the unknown, right? Yes. Because most of people in the emails I get from people are use are usually military or they already have a life established like you did. They had a job.
Manny:They had money coming in. They were living fine. They were with close to their family, and now they have to take that plunge. Right?
Vee:Yes.
Manny:And that's the scariest part because it's it's the unknown. Human beings are just naturally afraid of change. Right? So to make that change takes a lot of courage and I think that's a common theme across, you know, most of my guests have come on is they have the courage to make a change or they've had a really big dream and they really focused and they pursued it. Now, Vee, as she is called by her friends, she actually is a coworker of mine.
Manny:She is a SkyWest flight attendant and she took a leave of absence through a program that SkyWest offers. What do they call it?
Vee:We got the pathway program.
Manny:Pathway program. That's right. I want to talk about our support system. And Vee and I are a minority. We are considered a minority.
Manny:Right? And I feel like a lot of people have this, especially right now in the current environment, all these, you know, equal opportunity hires and stuff like that, and they feel like we have it easy. Like, oh, because you have, you're a minority, you're gonna be given preference, you're going to just gonna like straight shot down to United and be hired because you're a minority, you're a woman, you're you're Latino, you're Native American, whatever, they think that it's going to be a straight shot. But Vi and I were having a discussion about this and saying how we are at this we are at a disadvantage because our ancestors or parents or grandparents, the mindset is you just got to work and because we are considered the working class. Minorities are typically considered the working class and we prioritize working above anything else.
Manny:And for me, my parents, they were supportive, but I felt like if they knew how to support me, if they knew the value or knew what you had to go through to get to get an education, they would be more, supportive in a way where I could have achieved more with my life. Not saying that I'm complaining about it, but I felt like I could have been like in sports. I could have been in, you know, extracurricular activities that I would not have considered because of that. So now, when we take these leaps of faith into a change of career, our families are typically like, what are you doing? You know, what what what are you leaving a job?
Manny:Why are you leaving your job where you're getting paid? Why are you gonna do this? So they don't understand necessarily the depth of our dreams because they're like, well, it's all about making money. We're here to work. This is the American dream.
Manny:And so that's their disadvantage that we don't necessarily have a support system that is understanding of our dreams. So what's your story there?
Vee:Not having and I don't wanna say a proper support system because I know that my mom tries, and I know that my dad tries, and I know that they
Manny:Absolutely.
Vee:Trying to do the best that that they know, but then it also it scares them. And so because my dreams scare them, they're scared. And so because they're nervous or terrified, and they never had the support that they theoretically maybe wanna give me. And I don't wanna say that they don't wanna give me, but
Manny:Right. Right.
Vee:Part that they just they don't know how to do it. And, my dad was a blue collar worker his whole entire life, and my mom went back to, school. She did go back to school and she because she understood the importance of education. But, again, it's one of those things where she's not a 100% sure how to support me because my dreams have always been, like people think I'm crazy. Right?
Vee:Like, people think that, like, oh my god. Like, why why would you wanna do that? And so my dad I remember my dad telling me, like, oh, Miha, Why why are you wanting to leave your job? Like, why why would you wanna do that? And, you know, my dad being a blue collar worker, my dad worked his entire butt off, right, his entire life, in which I understand that, like, blue collar has built America.
Vee:Right? That's awesome. That's super great. Awesome. I'm I love I love all of that.
Vee:But, again, you know, even when I'm struggling at school and I call and I tell my dad, and I'm like, it's so funny because I've always told my I always thought that I have really tough skin, but I haven't cried as many times as I've ever cried in my entire life until I see a student finally. So, but I'll call my dad and I'm like, I'm just so frustrated. Like, you know, I messed this one thing up or I'm not doing great on my landings and this or that or whatever. And my dad's like, oh, Meehan. Yeah.
Vee:You you can always come home. You know, you just come home. You've gotten Miha, you've gotten a lot further than anybody else. Just, you know, you can go back to your job. You know, you can go back to your and it's all, like, like, it's funny because, again, it still scares them to know that, like, I'm I'm not working.
Vee:Right? And so
Manny:yeah. Right.
Vee:Yeah. Yeah. So it's
Manny:Because I I think I think those I I think is that when your support system also has to take that leap of leap of faith with you to be able to support you in the way that you need because you're gonna go through some tough times. And like you've said yourself, you've gone through some tough times getting your private pilot or working towards your private pilot's license, but we expect so much of our parents and sometimes they're not capable, you know, emotionally to be able to do that because they're also scared for you. Right?
Vee:Right.
Manny:So because they don't know how to deal with that fear of, like, I just know, you know, hey, I'm here to work. I'm gonna do this too. I can get some job security and call it a day. Same thing with my parents, you know. They had, my parents have like I think like a elementary school education and they were able to support me and get us here to the United States and because of them, I'm here.
Manny:So I'm very grateful for that. But once they knew I was self sufficient, they were happy, you know, but when I started to go towards my dreams, they were there to support me. They were always very proud of me, but I know that they were always it they were always there to be, hey, if it doesn't work out, just, you know, come back. They were not there to kind of push me a little harder. Right?
Manny:But, not because they don't they're being malicious and they don't want to, it's just that they don't know how. So that is what most minorities have to go through, whereas people that have backgrounds where your families are known for your probably the 3rd, 5th generation of college degree earners, and you already know they know the value of that support and they're willing to push you a little bit further.
Vee:Yes.
Manny:So we are as minorities, a little bit of a disadvantage there, and we have to work a little bit harder on our on our own to get there. So it's it's, it can be hard. Not everyone, but I can tell you it's a it's a majority of us, and I've talked to many, you know, people that come from minority backgrounds and you know, we may not also also we may not have the financial backing also because our parents don't have the financial wealth to be able to support us. So we have to do it on our own. You know, when I was a kid, I was paying for all my flight training out of pocket.
Manny:You know, I had to get an extra job to pay for that and eventually, you know, great, you know, thankfully I joined the military and they were able to provide that, but then you have opportunities like Vee. You know SkyWest is able to provide some financial backing for that and there's programs out there for that for anyone that's willing to grab it. And so, if let's switch gears really quick and let's talk about that program and how SkyWest is helping you out to get your flight training.
Vee:So again, going back to, like, how I was afraid, and I was, like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it. I'm just gonna do it. I talked to my friends. I'm, like, okay.
Vee:Cool. So I put in, and there's a lot of steps. I don't wanna make it seem like it's even easy because it doesn't matter who you are. Everybody has to take the right steps to the correct steps in order to go through the Pathway program. So, you put in, you know, like, a leave of absence.
Vee:You apply to the school. Once you put apply to the schools and you have, an acceptance from the school, you apply the pathway program and say, like, hey. I have an acceptance. This is what we want you to do. But SkyWest is, really definitely, like, hook us up.
Vee:I mean, I am really excited to go back, and this is one of the reasons why you kind of wanna make sure you find the right program to get you through all of that because the faster that you go back, the faster you get the money that SkyWest is going to be offering you. SkyWest is I believe it is around 60% of and you can quote me if I'm wrong. I believe it's about 60%, 50% or so that they will give you back, and they do give it back to you in increments. They do allow you to have a leave of absence. And the leave of absence is putting your flight attendant job or I believe rampers can do it.
Vee:Gate agents also can do it. Anybody who's, I think, really can do it if you're already not
Manny:a pilot. Dispatchers. Yeah. Uh-huh.
Vee:Right. Already not a pilot.
Manny:So
Vee:yeah. And that's the cool thing about it is I actually just renewed, renewed my leave of absence, just in March because I my March 31st was my anniversary of moving down here. And so but yeah. So you go and you you just update your hours. The really cool thing is, while you're a SkyWest cadet, you also, are building seniority.
Vee:And seniority in the aviation world is literally your bread and butter. Butter. So you wanna make sure
Manny:Yeah. Yeah.
Vee:It's starting to build all of that type of stuff.
Manny:Right.
Vee:Yeah. And so Yeah.
Manny:So what? So that's the one thing is, yes, seniority is very important and Vi is actually still with her seniority number as, you know, her leave of absence. So she's not like she just dropped everything. It's just gonna start at the bottom of the pile. Right?
Manny:So she's gonna have some seniority when she starts, you know, flying for SkyWest. And so now, what are you doing for because I know you took a leave of absence. You were making money. Are what are you doing for money?
Vee:Well, that's the part that's so scary is that, I knew that I wanted more from a long time ago. So I saved and saved and saved and saved and saved. I am currently living on a savings, which is scary, especially when your parents are telling you, hey. Like, I don't have extra money. I can't pay your rent.
Vee:Like, I can't do all this other stuff. And, in which, you know, it's scary for them. It's scary for me, but I am living on a savings. Also, with the student loan with the pathway program, they also do have a stipend program that you could get paid x amount of dollars, then you just pay it back in the future, but I didn't choose to do that because I didn't actually qualify for it. So
Manny:Okay. Good. Yeah. So as you can see and we there's a lot of stuff and, unknowns going into changing a career, right?
Vee:Yes.
Manny:So you don't know what you're gonna do for money. You may have to sacrifice your current lifestyle. You might even have to sacrifice it to be able to because some of us don't have that safety net. We don't have parents. We don't have a family that can provide that financial support if things go south.
Manny:Right? So we really have to work really hard and find things to be able to survive if you really want to achieve that dream. So it's not easy, guys. That's the one thing is that it is worth it but like we mentioned is like all things that are worth it are not necessarily gonna be easy, right? Yes.
Manny:So you're gonna have to do that. There are programs out there that are gonna help you out, but it's still you still gonna have to work for it. No one no one's gonna hand you the end result. And say, here you go. We're gonna pay you to be living.
Manny:You're gonna be covered. You're gonna have your same standard of living. You're gonna be able to travel. You're gonna be able to buy the things that you wanna buy and still be able to achieve your dream. There is sacrifices that need to be made.
Vee:Oh, yeah. For sure. And that's the thing that's so crazy is that my dad told me, he's like, well, how the heck do you think that you're gonna go down there and then and what? Like, live for free? He's like, that's not how that's gonna work.
Vee:He goes, why do these people expect you to leave job and leave everything? And he's like, and just go to school? He's like, I just don't understand. And so that's the biggest thing is, like, I've been told no a 100000000 times. No.
Vee:No. No. No. No. What are you doing?
Vee:What are you doing? What are you doing? Not only have I been told no with I didn't get into every school. I didn't I tried to go to schools in Utah. And, again, like, I didn't qualify for their loans for that particular school.
Vee:I have been told no a 100000 times, but this is the thing. I always thought I'm asking the wrong person because if I dream it, I can achieve it. And the thing is I know that I I know I know I know I know that I have the grit to do what I vision myself doing, And I know that I can't because, again, I'm not afraid to work twice as hard as the person next to me. I know it's gonna be harder for me. I already know it is.
Vee:I know it's gonna be harder, but I'm not afraid to fall down, to get up, to cry a little bit if I have to. Right. You know?
Manny:And Yeah. Absolutely.
Vee:You know, in that type of a situation. But damn it. I'm gonna do it.
Manny:Yeah. Exactly. This is the
Vee:hardest darn thing that I have ever ever done. I fail. I succeed. I do great. I suck.
Vee:I Yeah. Things were where I whatever. But one of the biggest also things that I do wanna say, to anyone if they ever were to get to where I'm at. And, again, it's a blessing. I get to wake up and I get to have a cup of coffee.
Vee:I get to fly airplanes. I get to do all this great stuff. But if you're not, please, please, please, please, please, you have worked so hard just to walk through the door. If you are not getting along with somebody or you feel like your education is not where it should be. Like, if you go to school and you start with a bunch of people and it's not a competition, but remember, everyone should be following either a 141 or a 61 guideline.
Vee:And if you're not getting along with your instructor, please, please, please, please, please, not just for me, but do it for you and all your hard work and all your tears and all your grit and all your times that you've been told no. Make sure that you limit yourself on how many lessons that you're going to have with someone before you switch to an instructor. It's okay to switch instructors. It's your money. Right.
Vee:It's your time. It's your career. It's everything else in between. And so that's, like, one biggest thing that I wanna make sure that people know from here on out too.
Manny:And that happened to me when I was going through, when I went through training, I was in a 141 program, and I got assigned an instructor during my training, and this instructor was just phoning it in. This instructor was just I wouldn't say it was borderline lazy where they were not scheduling flights. This instructor was not prioritizing their time to get my thing going, and I was on a time clock and I was on I was on a clock, you know. I needed to get this done by a certain time frame because the school said, hey, you need to finish this rating in 3 months and if not, you're gonna have to go back. You basically even though even though I'm having failed the check ride, the school could say, well, sorry, you didn't finish in time.
Manny:Guess what? Now you have an f. Now you're gonna have to go back and retake that class so you can pass the check right. So it was it was nuts. So I really had to stand up for myself and be like, hey, man.
Manny:Real talk. We need to you need to schedule you more. Like, I can't just be flying twice a week and just be doing this. Like, we need to have more time together. We need to go fly.
Manny:So you need to stand up for yourself and say, hey, let's do more or in this case like she mentioned, if you're not getting along with somebody, you need to speak up. Now, I'm not saying at the first inconvenience immediately it's because there's immediately switch because you're gonna come across people that you're just not gonna vibe with the same but you kinda have to kinda suck it up and just do it. But if there is a conflict, a big conflict between you 2 and you're just feeling either intimidated, communicate with this instructor first before you try to escalate the issue and try to switch, but definitely speak for yourself because you are paying a lot of money to get this training done and be efficient about it. Now, if you have this person, you know, I've I've had students that just don't speak up because they it's a cultural thing maybe. They, you know, they say, well, I don't know.
Manny:I don't wanna question it. I'm right. So I don't wanna question people because, you know, I had some Korean students. I had a lot of Korean students that they were just not speak up and, others other students actually requested a transfer to other Korean instructors because it was a cultural divide. And I said in one of them, bless his heart, he wrote me a letter.
Manny:I literally felt like he was breaking up with me. Like he wrote this really sweet letter. He's like, I'm really sorry. I still have it pinned somewhere in a in a cork board at home because it's has his name and everything. It's literally felt like he was breaking up with me.
Manny:He was so respectful, but he says, you know, I feel like it's just a cultural thing between us. I I feel like I I learned a little bit more from my Korean instructors. Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do, man. You're the one that's paying for all this. You're away from home.
Manny:You're thousands of miles away from your family. Yeah. You do what you need to do and, but there was like a cultural divide, also a language, not not not to mention the language barrier.
Vee:Yeah.
Manny:But it was like, I felt like most of them didn't speak up and they struggled because it was just like Oh my gosh. Disrespectful for them to Yeah. So there you go. Go for it. What do you got?
Vee:Okay. So I started. I'm like, yeah, I got I'm here. I'm in uniform. Oh my god.
Vee:I'm in a pilot uniform. Like, I'm not in my flight, like, flight attendant uniform, like, but I'm in a pilot uniform. Oh, my gosh. Right? So I Yeah.
Vee:Then I was so dang excited. And, you know, first meeting with my instructor, I was like, okay. You know, things are cool, whatever. I didn't think we had a problem. Then, I still didn't think I had a problem.
Vee:Right? And because, again, all going back to previously everything that I have all told you. Right? Like, I don't know what to expect. I'd also Mhmm.
Vee:Know what you don't know. And so I'm thinking Right. Myself, like, well, if I'm giving this school a $100,000, of course, in my mind, right, I'm, like, and if my company is backing them up, I'm, like, oh, it's one of those things where I'm, like, oh, yeah. Like, of course, I'm gonna trust these people. Of course, I'm gonna trust this instructor.
Vee:Of course, I'm gonna do all this stuff. So I think that, like, my instructor really kinda really what it comes down to is I don't know if my instructor truly just wanted to be there. I think he just wanted his hours and just wanted whatever to kinda do whatever. But then, but I didn't say anything because I thought to myself, like and this is also one thing. Please remember please remember, just because you're in the Pathway program, you still have a voice.
Vee:Because I thought to myself, oh, well, if my company is backing it, then and I'm not supposed to ruffle the feathers. Because again, like, I was taught, oh, me, go to work. Go to work, and you just come home and you do what you're supposed to do.
Manny:Right.
Vee:So I thought to myself, like, okay. I'm showing up and I'm prepared. I'm doing the things I'm supposed to be doing. I don't know what I don't know. Well, come to find out, I flew with this individual for 3 months and which is embarrassing to even admit.
Vee:But I just hope that there's not someone else out there that's like me. Right? And I thought everything was fine, but I didn't know how to trim the plane. I didn't know how to do proper stalls. I was putting the plane in secondary stalls.
Vee:I was doing all these crazy dangerous things, and then finally, I got, like, sick of it because I was talking to one of my friend again that we started at the same time. We're both in a 1 forty one program. And I knew that there were times where my instructor didn't like me. And, look, everyone's not put here to be friends. I get that.
Vee:I completely understand that. And Yeah. So I'm like, okay. Because he would tell me, like, we would have a mission at, you know, 6 o'clock in the morning. He would tell me, you're so happy.
Vee:Why are you so happy? I don't understand. Why are you so excited? Why like, I don't understand what I'm like, dude, I get to have a cup of coffee. I get to be here.
Vee:I get to fly planes. Like, what are you doing? What do you mean? Like, how are you not this excited? Like, I'm so excited.
Vee:Right? Yeah. So I knew that, like, I in I'm gonna say this is the nicest, like, away. I knew that I got on his nerves for just being happy. Right?
Vee:For just being excited. And I would like to think that I'm I actually no. I don't wanna think. I know for a fact that I'm always a person that always thinks the cup is halfway full. I'm always positive about everything because if you're not, why not?
Vee:Why why why why not? Because why do you wanna look at anything in a negative way? And I think that's also Right.
Manny:It's just wasted. It's it's wasted energy. If you're just being negative, it's wasted energy. You might and I get it. Sometimes, it's really hard to be on a positive side like you mentioned, you know, sometimes you'll have days you you wanna cry, but you gotta switch that energy and switch it to a positive outlook.
Manny:Right? So but yeah. I mean, man, that sucks. This instructor, I mean, it's like I feel like, especially people that are trying to get and I I get it for CFIs that are working to get their hours.
Vee:Yeah.
Manny:I understand that you're trying to work and it's just a job for you.
Vee:Yeah.
Manny:But does that that in itself of just trying to get your hours, you're you're doing a disservice to your students because you are not an aviation professional. You're just a you're a worker. You're just a CFI. Yeah. So you need to put invest time into your students to make sure that they get the proper training so they can they themselves make it to, the, you know, the seat that you're in right now and the right seat.
Vee:Yeah.
Manny:And but, yeah, it's it's speak up and make sure that you swap. So what's the story? So what ended up happening with this instructor? Like how
Vee:how I don't know.
Manny:What what made that what was the what was the straw that broke the camel's back? Like, you're like, I need I need a change.
Vee:Oh, my gosh. Okay. So I went to stage, and I went to stage, and I passed my oral, first go around. Then, the examiner, which I kinda feel they may have, like, a little bit of, like, an idea. But, again, I was so naive because I was just trusting the system.
Vee:Right? So, they started asking me, well, Vanessa, like, how many landings do you have? Like, you're gonna be soloing on your next flight. Like, you know, what's you know, how many landings do you have? And I'm like, oh, and I at the time, I had maybe, like, 20 hours.
Vee:So they're like, how many landings? And I was like, I don't know. I don't land the plane all that much, and they're like, what does that mean? And I'm like, I don't land the plane that much. Like, how many linings do you think you have?
Vee:And I was like, oh, being nice. I'm like, because I just counted my hours. I'm like, I have 19 hours. I'm like, so I'm like, I would say maybe, like, what, 20 landings? And they go, what?
Vee:So they left. They came back. They came to find out that, I should have had around that time. And, also, I never had done any touch and goes. I had never done and I'm supposed to solo next.
Vee:Like, I'm like, dude, are you trying to kill me? Like, I've never done a traffic pattern prior to that. But, again, no one is supposed to be not everyone's meant to be friends. So the the biggest thing hey. Not everyone's meant to be friends, but can you guys be better together?
Vee:And I'm like, okay. Cool. So I tried and I tried and I tried. I end up allowing him to let me do my solo. We did get past that.
Vee:I did have and this is where the retraining and this is where it's costing money because you're paying money to get retrained because, again, I didn't know how to do stalls. I didn't know how to properly do stalls. Let's say let's put it that way. Because I was stalling it, but I wasn't properly stalling it. And I didn't know how to trim the plane.
Manny:Right.
Vee:Man, my hands and my wrist used to hurt so bad at the end of, like, a fight because I was
Manny:You were white knuckling that.
Vee:Oh my gosh. I remember I used to tell have to tell him your controls because my arms would just hurt so bad from fighting the plane, and, oh my gosh, it was terrible. But, and then, my first solo after that, we were learning, cross, cross country, like, now blogs. Right? So the the breaking point for me just because, I mean, I know that it was kind of, like, step, step, step, step, steps, and I knew that there was times, like I said, I'm sure I got on his nerves just for being happy.
Vee:But, I caught him pretending to call for fuel, and he didn't. And then he was, just rude to me in front of another students and other instructors, and they they reached out to me, and they said, hey, does he talk like that to you all the time? And I'm, like, oh, anytime he delivers information. I was so used to it at that point, which is embarrassing to admit. I was so used to it at that point, because they're, like, wait a minute.
Vee:Does he always talk to you like that? And I was, like, like, how? And they're, like, wait a minute. Does he always relay messages like that to you? And I was, like, yes.
Vee:So I'm like, every time that we talk, it's usually that's how he just converses. Right? Like, I almost, at this point, thought he was just Oscar the Grouch. Like, you know, like, that's how he just converses. Right?
Vee:But, the breaking point for me is when he was running late he was always running late too. When he was running late, and he called for fuel, and I caught him in a lie on how because he wanted to cancel the mission, because he didn't wanna schedule me. We had to get on schedule and do all this other stuff, but he he called, and I was it was just so funny because the fuel truck just kept driving past us, driving past us, driving past us, and I've already done all this stuff. And we're waiting. I already did all my preflight.
Vee:Let me get be more specific. Did my preflight, and then finally, we went back. We canceled the mission, and it just didn't sit right in my gut regardless of all the rest of the stuff. So I called fuel myself, and I said, did you I'm just gonna say a random number. I'm like, did you guys have a call for, you know, I don't know, November 1, 2, 3?
Vee:This is call sign, you know, v. You know? Right? Like, we're we're do you do you Yeah. Do you have a call like, do you have a fuel call at, let's say, 8:30?
Vee:And they said, nope. We have never had a fuel call for, you know, November 1, 2, 3 for instructor, you know, instructor Marvelous.
Manny:Oscar the Grouch. Yeah.
Vee:So I was like
Manny:Instructor Oscar.
Vee:Yeah. Yeah. Instructor Oscar. Yeah. Oscar the Grouch.
Vee:Right? Oscar the g, but he's like so I was like, you know what? And I sat in my truck, and I got so frustrated because I was already at a point where I was extremely frustrated with this individual, and I thought, man, I have had to just pay for 5 or 6 more missions, which everybody all knows the Hobbs time is never cheap. Right? It's never Nope.
Vee:It costs every single time that I even wanna show up to school, and I think I'm getting in the back of a plane, it's gonna cost anywhere between $400 plus. Right? So it's Yep. And I had to go and pay for 5 or 6 missions just to learn the plane so I can solo one time around the the the airport. Right?
Vee:So that's where I go back and I say, hey. If you feel like your friend and you guys are teeter tottering on the same missions or, let's say, lessons or syllabus or this or that or whatever, but if you feel like there's a gap, there's probably a gap, and you need to say something. And the school even if the school does have a direct line to whatever higher being, you need to say something. Because, again, at the end of the day, it's your career. It's your money.
Vee:It's whatever. Because I've been in my program now for a year, and I should at least have obtained, at least my instrument at this point. Right? But I'm at checkride for my PPL. And because that put me behind, I've had to get retrained quite a bit.
Vee:And the 141 program, just how you had mentioned earlier that, like, hey. If you don't do this in x amount of time, then the school can go back and say, like, hey. Like, you you not really kind of where you're at. Like, we need you to do this where you're at or you have to redo it and or whatever. Right?
Vee:So you have to make sure that, 1, you're doing the right program even if the school is gonna advertise, hey. We're gonna get you done in 14 months. Just make sure that you're advocating for yourself. It doesn't matter who you are, whatever you are, whatever the situation is, please, please, please don't just do it for me. Do it for yourself.
Vee:I wish that I would have advocated for myself a lot sooner. And finally so I walked into the director and I said, hey. I do not wanna fly with Oscar the Crouch anymore. I'm like, I don't wanna fight with him. And so she's like, Vanessa, come inside.
Vee:Close the door. So then I finally I told her I was like, hey. I'm like, I have documented every single time of this whole entire situation. I'm like, I have documented all the times that he's late, all the times that I've been charged for briefings that I'm not getting briefed. I'm like, all these things.
Vee:I'm like, he super ghost called on fuel today just to cancel the mission. I'm, like, I don't wanna fight with him anymore. And so they did an investigation and all that good stuff, and we end up switching, but yeah.
Manny:The story goes beyond just not being friends with someone and not getting along with someone because I've had you know, I've flown with captains that are the most bit avoided captains of the company, but I still managed to get along with them. You know? Like Yeah. I understand that they have certain personality traits that we're just not gonna get along or we're not gonna agree on certain things, but they are still good pilots. Like the ones that I've flown with, I've never felt like it was dangerous.
Manny:They still deliver a they're still a good pilot. And in these situation, whoever this instructor is, shame on you. Shame on you for being a setting a just a negative image of CFIs. It is unprofessional to show up late. It is unprofessional, super just it's just horrible to do in just ghost call, like, to just to cancel a mission and to charge for briefs that you didn't even do.
Manny:In fact, that's what happened with that instructor that I said, he was charging me for stuff. I'm like, you charged me for half an hour of a brief and you literally just put in you signed my logbook and we took off. So why are you charging me this much money? And I had to just kinda confront him about it and I talked to the chief about it as well, but is you have to stand up for yourself.
Vee:Yes.
Manny:But is you're doing a huge disservice to the community if you are just showing up just to make money. And if you're that inconvenienced that you're showing up late, that is just I know it's not even V's situation. It is just is a poor instructor.
Vee:Manny, do you wanna know the kicker? What? He lived next door.
Manny:Oh, no. So you had to see this guy all the time.
Vee:Well, actually, the great thing is is, like, you know, sometimes I do, this is gonna sound so bad because sometimes I do, like, think to myself, like, man, what if I freaking see Oscar the Crouch? Like, what am I gonna do? Like, what's gonna happen? Right? Yeah.
Vee:But but yes. No. And that's the biggest thing is that, like, oh, my gosh. Like and I thought to myself, oh, and this is one thing. Like, I was warned about, flight schools all before.
Vee:So, like, all before all of the situation, people in Boise, the guys airplane here that I used to live in and all this stuff. People are like, you gotta watch schools. And this is, like, not saying one thing or another. People are like, you just gotta watch schools. Like, you have CFIs that just wanna get their hours.
Vee:You gotta do, you know, you have CFIs that don't really kinda care. They just wanna get to the airlines. They don't care about anybody else. They're just doing all this stuff. And so in my mind, like, again, like, I I should have advocated for myself way sooner, because, oh my gosh, it has cost me a lot a lot of money.
Vee:Not only has it cost me a lot a lot of money, but to get retrained and to talk to the school, and we're still trying to work out the financial situation about being, over overcharged and, you know, this type of stuff. But things you wanna make sure that you're looking for in the future, and I don't know if whatever. But make sure if they're writing anything in your academic thing, ask them because I didn't know that. I didn't know that instructors had the opportunity to write whatever they wanted to write in side of a profile. Right?
Vee:Make sure you're asking. I didn't know until way after. And I'm, like, looking at all the notes, and I'm, like, woah woah woah woah woah. Like, what's going on here? Right?
Vee:But, it's it's definitely been very, very, very challenging. It's definitely been one of those things where, in life, like I said, I am not afraid to work as hard as I need to work, but it's been a big struggle. And it's made it even that much harder for myself, because the people that I started with, they're finishing up their instrument right now. And so Wow. It's kind of and it's also one of those things where I'm like, dang.
Vee:I get discouraged. And sometimes I'm like, man. But then I also remember, like, don't forget, Vanessa, when you're in Salt Lake, and there are schools telling you no. There are schools telling you no. There's been people that tell you no.
Vee:There's people that say, oh, like, you know, you really wanna go and do that. You really wanna do this or whatever. I'm here. I've already done the hardest thing. Right?
Vee:The hardest part is now just getting past this bump or getting past this, little little part because in a 141, you're expected to continue to progress.
Manny:Right.
Vee:But while I've had all these wild holes in my training, it's been extremely difficult because we'll get to like, I just like, I'm on my last stage. Right? I'm on stage 3. I gotta pass my oral, and then I gotta do my flight, and then I'm up for check ride. But I just learned how to slip, like, just a couple weeks ago.
Manny:'Sup, nerds? Before I let you go, I have a task for you. I have a challenge. If you can go to the platform where you're listening to this podcast, then go ahead and leave a review. Just tap that star.
Manny:Whether it's a 5 star, I like that very much, or a 4 or a 3 or 2 or a 1. It doesn't matter as as long as you leave a review and some criticism so I can improve this podcast because I want the Tailwinds of Sunshine podcast to be your podcast. So go ahead and leave that review now. I also wanna give a huge shout out to my friends and coworkers for sharing the podcast with their friends and family. That means the world to me.
Manny:Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. Also, if you wanna be part of the show, go ahead and hit me up. It doesn't matter where you are in the world. We'll make that show happen. We'll make you a friend of the show.
Manny:Until next time. Wishing you Tailwinds sunshine. See you. The statements made on the show are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.