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In this episode, you will hear Dr. Steven Pirutinsky from the Touro graduate School of Social Work share his experiences in conducting research, including collaboration and self-motivation. He also gives tips about finding time to write and maintaining a balance between research and other faculty responsibilities.
The Faculty Chronicles (TFC) podcast, sponsored by the Touro Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning (CETL), is about building community, connection, and conversation. It will bring to life the stories behind the great works of Touro faculty, across disciplines in all our schools, focusing on classroom innovation in teaching and learning, science, business, medicine, education, wellness and more.
00:00:00:13 - 00:00:30:03
Elizabeth
Hello, everyone. Welcome to a new episode of The Faculty Chronicles. Elizabeth Oni, the co-host of this podcast chair and associate professor with the Torah College of Pharmacy in New York. Our guest for the day is Steven Burtynsky. Dr. Burtynsky is an associate professor with the Torah Graduate School of Social Work. After completing his Ph.D. from the Columbia University, Steven joined Toro in 2006.
00:00:31:04 - 00:01:16:01
Elizabeth
He's also a licensed clinical psychologist at Turrell. Steven teaches human behavior in the social environment clinical, social work, practice and research courses. He maintains an active research program focused on the intersection between spirituality, religion, culture, mental health and well-being. He's also interested in cutting edge research methodology and so as a consultant for a number of large ongoing research projects, he was a recipient of the 2018 presidential research development grant and 2019 Best Faculty Publication in Social, Behavioral and Education Series.
00:01:16:18 - 00:01:18:08
Elizabeth
Welcome, Steven, to our show.
00:01:18:20 - 00:01:20:19
Steven
Oh, thank you, Elizabeth. A pleasure to be here.
00:01:21:20 - 00:01:37:11
Elizabeth
Well, Utah, a profile case that you are an active researcher. So let's start from there. Tell us a little bit about your research so that an audience have an idea about what you do in your research area.
00:01:38:11 - 00:02:16:13
Steven
Sure. So my research generally focuses on religion, spirituality and mental health, particularly within the Orthodox Jewish community. I'd say about 50% of my publications are in that area. I'm also involved in a lot of other projects related to mental health and wellbeing. So, you know, just for an example, some recent studies looked at comparing the types of diagnoses and levels of symptoms and treatment choices among Orthodox Jews versus other demographically similar populations.
00:02:17:16 - 00:02:33:20
Steven
I do did some research on cognitive models of stuttering, some research on the effect of spirituality, on suicidality among geriatric patients. So it's really a variety of things. I'm kind of clustered around mental health and mental health services.
00:02:34:24 - 00:03:03:03
Elizabeth
Awesome, awesome. So Steven, you come from Columbia University, which is a very research intensive university, and Turrell. As much as we allow research and we do a lot of research, it's not like Columbia. So as a prolific researcher, please tell us, what do you have to tell the audience how to be a productive researcher at total? What are some of the tips that you have for us?
00:03:03:14 - 00:03:28:02
Steven
Yeah, so this is really a great question. And I think of being at a university like Touro has both strengths and challenges in terms of research. So comparing to a like a large owl one research university, the expectations are different. A Toro, the support is different. The kind of collaboration is different. Access, some of the grant opportunity is different.
00:03:28:23 - 00:03:52:14
Steven
And that is both, like I said, a strength and a challenge. So in terms of strengths, and my responsibilities revolve around teaching and service and some research. I'm much more free to select research projects that interests me and you know, the kind of research I do, some of it is, you know, gets funding and is fundable. Some of it is very difficult to find funding for.
00:03:53:07 - 00:04:18:02
Steven
And being here, Arturo gives the opportunity to explore the projects that I'm really passionate about, the topics that I and that I care about, and write the papers that interests me rather than trying to meet grant requirements or I know position myself for the next chapter, you know, grant opportunity. So in a way, there's a lot of strengths to being at a place like Toro There's also the collaborative environment here.
00:04:18:02 - 00:04:46:11
Steven
So we talk about how to be productive research at Toro. I would say the number one factor has to be is to collaborate Because some of the, you know, larger resources are not necessarily as available. You need to partner with other people to be an effective researcher. And I collaborate a lot with internal and again, the fact that it's a little bit of a small university that, you know, aren't as formally structured labs I get to collaborate.
00:04:46:11 - 00:05:09:22
Steven
So for example, recently I worked with Jennifer Zelnick, who's a professor in the program that I teach in social work. On looking at the role of managerialism and how that impacts the health of social social workers. I also collaborate a lot outside of Touro and get involved in some really interesting projects that are stuttering. Research is someone I work with out of University of Memphis.
00:05:10:07 - 00:05:36:20
Steven
I do a lot of research with David Grossman out of Harvard. McClain And so one of the key things to be an effective researcher after, I think is collaboration. So pursuing your passion and collaboration another factor that I find helpful is you need to be creative about resources. So a turtle does provide a fair amount if you if you know where to look.
00:05:37:03 - 00:06:04:03
Steven
So there's you know, if there is an office, a sponsor, research, we do have resources there in terms of grant writing and IAB and things like that. You can connect with them and are, you know, eager to help and available. We do have software that is available to faculty to enabling research, whether that's survey software or analytics software that those options are there.
00:06:04:14 - 00:06:27:07
Steven
So one is, you know, being aware of the resources that are present, collaborating with others. The other thing I often do is I if I want really expensive data, I sometimes have to utilize publicly available data. And there's a wealth of publicly available data in any field. And I, you know, over the years have kind of figured out where to find it.
00:06:28:03 - 00:06:49:09
Steven
And I've done a lot of very interesting work using data that would be millions of dollars to collect on my own. So, for example, following adolescents who have been convicted of a felony crimes for three years and evaluating them over a three year span and testing some very interesting hypotheses about the relationship between religion, spirituality, adolescent offending and impulse control.
00:06:49:17 - 00:07:12:24
Steven
And that would not be something that's possible. I mean, even if I pursued grants, I don't think I can get the funding to do something like that. But the data is freely available or as part of a many analysts project where they analyzed an enormous dataset of European data on the relationship with religiosity and well-being. And that was published in religion brain and Behavior.
00:07:13:07 - 00:07:31:04
Steven
And I was one analyst among the team of analysts. So I guess to sum it up, what I would say is take advantage of the resources that are available pursue projects that interest you, that you're passionate about, collaborate with others, and and search for publicly available data where that's possible.
00:07:32:12 - 00:07:54:14
Elizabeth
That's great. I think collaboration is something that we really need to be pursuing, but something that also sometimes faculty may be a little worried about, wondering that it is to some extent being one another. But. Right. I don't know how to do this. Is it okay to say that I don't know how to do this or I don't have access to this, those kind of thoughts.
00:07:54:21 - 00:08:18:04
Elizabeth
So it is good to hear from someone like you to say that it's okay to collaborate, ask for help, ask for resources when you don't have one. So the other thing that might be a little bit struggle for faculty at times is with self-motivation. So how what are some of the tips that you have to keep yourself motivated to do research on an ongoing basis?
00:08:18:18 - 00:08:43:20
Steven
So that's it's a lovely question. Because it does take a lot of dedication and motivation to do research. Research is very exhausting. It requires a variety of skills that most people don't possess all of and necessitates either learning new things or collaborating more, you know, most likely collaborate with others. So I'll answer that. There's three ways I can answer that question.
00:08:43:20 - 00:09:06:01
Steven
I can answer that question personally how I do it. I can answer that question as a research oriented faculty. Member here at zero. I can answer that question as a psychologist. So maybe we'll do maybe we'll do a blend of all three. So how do I stay motivated Let me start with the personal I mean, for me, it's because I am truly curious.
00:09:07:01 - 00:09:34:09
Steven
And my approach to research is you know, like a child with a new toy. I love learning new things. I love exploring new areas of human experience. I'm extremely interested in, hey, what will turn out? So a big part of what motivates me is that kind of sense of playfulness and curiosity. If I felt research was an obligation or, you know, a requirement, I think in some ways that might might take away from it.
00:09:34:19 - 00:10:00:17
Steven
And I try to stay in that framework of kind of let's see where this list takes me. That's a big part, a piece there. The other piece I find is the social aspect. So I know I keep on talking about collaboration, but if you have collaborators people that you just talk to, people that you think together with, people that you bounce ideas or a manuscript or project, there's a social aspect to the research that keeps it going.
00:10:01:01 - 00:10:19:22
Steven
I get a whatever happened with, you know, we discussed this idea. Did you ever look at the data? And that will kind of, oh, yeah, I should really take a look at it. So I find that there's a social aspect to it, to it, to those those two things really keep me going as as a, you know, as a faculty to answer.
00:10:19:23 - 00:10:47:01
Steven
It's what keeps you engaged in what's current it what it's what keeps me enthusiastic about the topics I teach. It's what garners I mean, for it maybe crassly, but it's what garners a lot of respect and is valued by if people around me, whether that's academic administration, whether that's fellow faculty members, whether that's students, whether that's know for consulting or outside.
00:10:47:18 - 00:11:08:02
Steven
So I find that that's another thing that keeps me motivated is important for my career. I do believe that it's important for any faculty members career that engage in some level of scholarship it's it's, you know, the third pillar of what we do now as a psychologist, a lot of it is similar to other habits. I mean, dedicating time to it.
00:11:08:14 - 00:11:27:05
Steven
So I set aside time in my week. That's research time. I don't you know, when, you know, don't leave it for when it's going to happen because then it won't happen. So I have specific slots when, you know, not a lot because it's you know, we're quite busy as faculty, but I do set aside some time. I particularly utilize the summers.
00:11:27:05 - 00:11:48:10
Steven
So when I usually usually teach, that goes right into research time and I make sure to celebrate even small steps. So every picture that's published, every, you know, revise and resubmit, I get from a journal every interesting idea that someone comes up with their data. I make sure I celebrate that and then also keeps me going.
00:11:49:13 - 00:12:13:13
Elizabeth
So awesome. The other thing that we often hear faculty talk about is the publication process. The whole idea of writing, sitting down and writing this paper and then submit it always knowing that there is a chance of it being rejected. Right. So the whole publication process can become quite intimidating to faculty. So tell us a little bit about it.
00:12:13:13 - 00:12:17:02
Elizabeth
What is your publication process then? Do you find time to write?
00:12:17:08 - 00:12:36:22
Steven
Yeah. So not only is there a chance you'll be rejected, it most likely will be rejected. It, and that is part of the process of research. I don't look at that as a failure at all. I'll often, you know, even on the first submission stretch the paper a little bit and like I don't know if this journal would be that interested, but I'd really like to get it in there.
00:12:36:22 - 00:12:57:00
Steven
Let me try. And it's okay to get rejections. A lot of those rejections come. What's amazing feedback that you can incorporate in revision of the paper or even in some future project. So I look at submitting a paper as an opportunity to get insightful cover station going with people and do research in my area that I have otherwise no access to.
00:12:57:06 - 00:13:12:05
Steven
And I've learned a lot through it. I've developed a relationship through it, and definitely it has enhanced my research So I guess one big part of it is I don't look at that as a failure at all. I look at that as part of the process at staying motivated. I mean, collaboration is a big piece. I could not write.
00:13:12:05 - 00:13:29:18
Steven
I mean, I've written papers on my own, but it's very challenging. It's easier if you break up the work. It's easier if you have someone who's fresh to it. Take a look at it. As you're working on it. You know, you know, if I'm writing a paper and there's a part that I just I just can't get this limitation section, I just I don't have the energy for it.
00:13:29:24 - 00:13:54:07
Steven
I have collaborators let them give it a shot. So I find that that helps for that as well. I also think people feel the bar is very high and they'll never be able to do something quality enough to get published. I think a lot of that is anxiety and not reality because most faculty, and I've read many things, the fact that I've written, I'm like, You should really publish this.
00:13:54:12 - 00:14:15:23
Steven
I read things that students have written that are getting, you know, pretty close to what's publishable and I really think that a lot of it is just not being afraid and submitting it and taking the feedback and then revising. It's also like any other creative process that the I find the hardest is to start those first 5 minutes, the first 10 minutes.
00:14:16:05 - 00:14:45:12
Steven
But once you're, you know, you have your music going, you're listening to, you know, whatever podcast you're addicted to at the moment and you sit down and start writing. It really does flow and you can get into that flow state. So yeah, and I know personally, like I said, I blackout times. I know when one of my now is writing time and you know, I pick the time of the day that I, I feel I'm most productive and I don't do it too often, maybe once a week over the summer, maybe twice a week and sit down and write for a few hours.
00:14:45:12 - 00:15:19:02
Steven
And not always does it result in something that's published. Usually. Usually. But I find just doing it and you know, there's stuff that's sitting, you know, in a file somewhere that's I think never going to see the light of day, and that's fine. I, you know, that's kind of all part of the process. So I think just being relaxed about it, being willing to accept feedback designating time and allowing yourself to get into that flow state of just putting your ideas on paper and editing after worrying about, you know, I don't even worry about spelling when I'm first writing.
00:15:19:03 - 00:15:19:23
Steven
I'm just writing.
00:15:20:18 - 00:15:41:20
Elizabeth
I know it is so important, right? Just to do that free flow, not worrying about editing or anything, just write it get the thoughts out there and then let's go back to it and start seeing, you know, making it streamline and editing and all those kind of things. So the other thing, sometimes the fact we struggle about is the whole Work-Life Balance, right?
00:15:41:20 - 00:16:02:06
Elizabeth
So you have so many things to get done. You have got to do your teaching a service and for someone like you that is active clinical practice going on, then you go home, you have family, you have children. So in all of these things, how to keep that lab burning?
00:16:03:02 - 00:16:31:10
Steven
Yeah, it's really I mean, there's no answer to that. I mean, it does it does have a lot to do with having supportive family. And there's no question that we are all doing more than can be reasonably reasonably balanced and adding a significant amount of research on top of all of what we do is challenging. I do. Part of it is at least for me, research is fun, so I like my fun.
00:16:31:10 - 00:16:58:24
Steven
Time is sometimes research time. And I'm I'm good with that. I mean, that's a great day that I sat and wrote something or analyze something. Another piece is I, I build it into quiet times of the year. I, you know, I can mention the summer, but other times when there's a little bit better ability to balance, I involve students from time to time or even, you know, so able to use like classroom exercises or things like that that contribute towards my research.
00:16:59:24 - 00:17:25:23
Steven
You kind of have to be creative to find that, that, that time when you can actually do it. The other thing is, you know, you don't have to work on a lot of projects at a time. I, you know, sometimes I'll you know, three, 45 projects going on mostly because I'm collaborating. But when it's something that I'm doing myself, I really do focus on one project and just, you know, chew on it for a month.
00:17:26:10 - 00:17:50:14
Steven
And you can do this slow. I mean, the time from when you conceive an idea, gather the data, clean the data, analyze it data, put together, start putting together Patra, sending out reviews. I mean, the research around could be a year and a half to two years till it's published. So if you're only working on one project, the ours, you know, it's not that much you can fit it in to work at a pace that makes sense to you.
00:17:51:16 - 00:18:06:16
Elizabeth
Makes a lot of sense. So as a faculty, we all have our three pillars teaching, service and research. And tell me, how does your research affect the other two pillars of academia, the teaching and service?
00:18:06:20 - 00:18:33:20
Steven
Yeah. So I really view my research as essential to both my service, my teaching and and also my clinical work. I think the best way else to illustrate this is with a story. So this came up a couple of weeks ago. One of the things that we were concerned about as a faculty over the course this year, we kind of we're talking about in some of our curriculum meetings was the idea of great inflation and consistent and kind of accurate grading.
00:18:34:17 - 00:18:59:13
Steven
And I thought, hey, this is a great idea for a research project. What are the factors in grading? What are the student factors what are the instructor factors? What are the course factors as grading changed over time? Is our grading trends? Is there any predictability to that? So research project. So this is in a sense, service and blending my service role to the department to understand their grading practices.
00:19:00:06 - 00:19:25:13
Steven
But it also is an opportunity to use research skills and perhaps to publish, perhaps and not publish depending on, you know, how interesting it is, you know, if the project matures into that that level of quality. But I we found some I mean, just analyzing the data, putting together, I found some fascinating, fascinating insights into what leads, you know, two different grading outcomes both in terms of students and faculty and and what predicts that.
00:19:25:24 - 00:20:04:08
Steven
And so something like that is very research, very research minded, but absolutely service in terms of my teaching research infuses every class. I mean, if I'm not talking about I'm talking about empirical findings in different areas. I'm bringing my own research experience to the class. This is true of research classes, obviously, but even clinical practice classes. So talking about, you know, working with a couple of families and one of the area of research I've done quite a bit of work in is religious conflict between couples and the impact of that on the family and you know, that kind of conversation came up in a class.
00:20:04:08 - 00:20:23:18
Steven
And I'm able to speak from my own findings, from my own experience, from my own data, as well as, you know, the the the other data that I reviewed in preparing the research that I've done. So it's just it's right there right below the surface of my teaching. And often when there's an opportunity or when it makes sense, it's very integrated.
00:20:24:00 - 00:20:40:10
Steven
And I find it in terms of student interest. Students are fascinated by it when you can actually tell a story. Well, what we did is we brought a bunch of couples into the lab and we took out you know, we videoed them and we asked them that's very different than them reading some dry journal article and conveys information in a in a very real, real way.
00:20:41:03 - 00:21:06:00
Steven
So I find that absolutely being research oriented and get actively engaged in research helps my teaching. And I find it informs my clinical practice as well as especially some of the research I do spirituality, religion, mental health, culture and Orthodox Jewish community issues. There isn't that much knowledge out there in those areas, and they're very kind of understudied, quiet corners of the world of mental health.
00:21:06:07 - 00:21:29:01
Steven
But for many of the patients, I see that it's extremely relevant and the ability to you know, say, you know, I really care about this because let me tell you, you know, I think, you know, I did some research that reminds me of what you're telling me about. Let me tell you what we found. It helps them feel like I deeply care and I'm deeply knowledgeable about the personal issues that they struggle with.
00:21:30:06 - 00:21:56:09
Elizabeth
Also. Well, you know, I think that was a great talk that you talked about the whole research. So when I'm walking away from this, I'm thinking off a few points that you say the first one is collaborate, you know, find someone else to work with. And that's that's essential. The second one I heard is become creative with terms of your resources better or any of those kind of things.
00:21:56:12 - 00:22:23:00
Elizabeth
Get more creative. I also heard Celebrate, celebrate each of your success so that you have that motivation to keep yourself going. And I hope to more things, which was so practical I thought one was take it slow. This is not a race. It's okay. Take it slow. And the second one was keep it real. Maybe even the topic that you choose to do research or or the how the way you disseminate your classroom.
00:22:23:06 - 00:22:33:22
Elizabeth
So keep it very real. So these are some of the things that I understood from your talk that hopefully we can use when we are trying to conduct our research. Did I get that right?
00:22:34:05 - 00:23:01:02
Steven
Yeah, I think that's a fantastic summary. And the last thing and I think maybe the most important I would add is have fun research when done right is fun. I enjoy almost all the time I spend doing it and it's just exciting and interesting and engaging. And if you if you kind of approach it that way and pick topics that you feel that way about, the rest of it kind of just follows along.
00:23:02:03 - 00:23:17:09
Elizabeth
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Stephen, for being our guest today. And good luck with your research on a regular basis. Thank you to our listeners for tuning in and listening to our podcast and the next day. Thank you.