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Taking the Hire Road is a podcast dedicated to providing tips to help manage the driver recruiting process while addressing the ongoing challenges related to the driver shortage and driver retention. Hosted by Jeremy Reymer, Founder and CEO of DriverReach, this bimonthly podcast shines a light on the challenges that carriers are facing and aims to help companies hire quality drivers with greater efficiency.
Jeremy Reymer (00:07):
Welcome to Taking the Hire Road, a special show dedicated to the trucking industry primarily around the confluence of recruiting, retention, and compliance. In the fifth years, the host of this show, I bring over two decades of industry experience, both on the carrier side as well as the vendor side. Throughout the year, I interview industry experts and thought leaders who bring their insight to the driver lifecycle As we discuss the industry's greatest challenges, I always appreciate your feedback. Good or bad, don't forget to leave a rating and a review. I'd also like to thank and highlight the show's valuable sponsors. Their dedication and commitment to the industry and to the show is greatly appreciated. If you're interested in being a sponsor of the show or joining me for an interview, please email jeremy@takingthehireroad.com. This week I'm excited to be joined by PJ Barclay, President and CEO of Impirica, a company leveraging science and technology to improve safety and risk in regards to impairment and driver wellness in the trucking industry.
Jeremy Reymer (01:00):
Great to have you on the show, PJ.
PJ Barclay (01:02):
Hey Jeremy. Good to be here.
Jeremy Reymer (01:03):
You and I first met in person at an annual trucking conference. I was able to spend some time with you and learn more about you, about Impirica and the significant safety and compliance risk you're helping carriers of Boyd or significantly reduce. I'd love to have you share all of that with our audience as well as give us an idea of what exciting things we have to look forward to as you continue to grow and evolve. And then lastly, I'll make sure we touch on this episode's industry health question, which is sponsored by Project 61. Does that work for you? Should is, well, before we dive in, I'm going to just plant a seed At the end of our conversation, I'm going to ask you for a book recommendation, something that you've read that's been impactful to you, and so just give that some thought and then we'll circle back at the end. Let's start with PJ. What's your story? Can you share a little bit about your background and what got you excited about the trucking industry?
PJ Barclay (01:53):
I'm based in Canada, been in Canada for 13 years now. I'm actually A CPA by trade. I worked for an accounting firm and actually I was an auditor and it is really 20, 20 15, 20 14 that what started to become more and more topical and top of mind was the legalization of cannabis and that was both in Colorado, but also it is gaining momentum over here in Canada with the federal government to legalize cannabis on a federal level. And one of the big questions that was around the time was, okay, are we going to legalize cannabis but how do we know if someone's impaired? Just a bit about me is I love solving things. For me, you have to be finding how do you solve some of these challenges? And more and more within the circles, which was not transportation at the time, I found myself in conversations asking How does one address this issue of impairment specifically as it relates to cannabis?
PJ Barclay (02:53):
What I found myself doing is actually being consumed by the question. It wasn't even my job, it wasn't even the industry I was serving in. And in that time, what I found was that the biggest question or one of the areas of highest consequence of impairment was in transportation being just general driving or whether it be commercial driving. And I came across a technology at the time that was cognitively based and that's something that really started to pique my interest and understanding a large amount of thought leadership was going to take in this performance based approach. How do you measure performance at scale? One thing led to the next, and I had approached the organization at the time, there wasn't necessarily pointed towards solving this problem about using the intellectual property to actually start addressing the issue that was fast going to grow within North America as legalization became more and more topical. And the next thing you know in 2016, I found myself in the transportation industry. So I'm coming up close to a decade now in the industry that I've become incredibly passionate about. I love the industry. It seems as though that it's a family in many ways. It has its issues, it has its family dynamics, and at the same time, I think within the industry you've got good people, good people who want to see other people within the industry succeed. And for that I've been very grateful towards that transportation industry here in North America.
Jeremy Reymer (04:18):
You were highlighting a lot of the work that Impirica is doing. I definitely want to unpack a lot of that, but what I was going to say is interestingly, you came to Canada, became consumed with cannabis, not the way that probably some people might, but in solving the problem, as you talked about impairment, that's a really big deal. I'm guessing that there may be a lot of viewers who maybe have heard the name Impirica recently just because of how engaged you have been and how dynamic you've been as a individual and also the company being a lot more involved in attending events. But could you share with the audience what Impirica is all about?
PJ Barclay (04:56):
Impirica, as an organization, we are actively focused on proactively measuring impairment risk. We want to support stakeholders wherever there may be with a rapid way in measuring the risk of an individual's impairment as it relates to a complex environment. No, that's a mouthful. We simplified, we leverage cognitive science, so it's a short cognitive screen that individuals can take and what it does is it provides a predicted risk of how they would perform on the road or in other areas, safety sensitive. This is backed by 30 years of research, about a quarter of a million real world assessments that look at cognitive performance and match that to actual commercial driving. And through that, we've been able to identify what is high risk behavior versus what is not. I had mentioned earlier in my introduction that it was cannabis that consumed me in really starting to understand this question of, but when you start digging deeper, you actually start to realize that impairment is not exclusive to cannabis.
PJ Barclay (06:04):
It is actually far greater than it. If not, there are more issues that could impact one's abilities to operate safely than just an illegal substance or a illegal substance, whatever it may be. There are health conditions, there are fatigue conditions, there's mental health conditions. A number of these things actually impact a person's ability to operate safely in complex environments. The approach of the organization is to deliver a technology. It's a scalable technology that provides a rapid measure of impairment risk that is cause agnostic. So we are not a cannabis detector and we are not an alcohol detector. There's tools for that. What we are looking at is to provide a quantified measure of risk of a person's ability to operate safely in a given environment. And in that way we've been able to help the industry really tackle that issue that is now that the spotlight's being placed in it, people are becoming aware of it and they realize that is a risk that needs to be mitigated.
Jeremy Reymer (07:04):
We talk about impairment and you referenced cannabis, but then you really made a good point about all of these other factors, right? Whether it's fatigue or mental health or those sorts of things. And I would think that most impairment is not cannabis related. Certainly in trucking you mentioned a rapid measure of impairment risk. I'd like to double click on that. You did reference in that presentation that you gave at the conference in Scottsdale. You referenced a solution called Neurapulse.
PJ Barclay (07:35):
Neurapulse as a solution. It's actually been 30 years in the making and there's two generations of solutions that have come behind it. But ultimately, as you evolve and as you get the answers, one of the things that you need to do is that if you're offering a solution, it needs to be relevant to the industry, it needs to be scalable, it needs to be able to seamlessly integrate with operations and just for intent and purposes. That's what this generation of solution does At the essence of the solution, it is a cognitive screen, so a cognitive screen that can be deployed to phone when you're thinking of an application within a pre-hire context, but also one that could be integrated into ELDs when you're considering an ongoing measurement. Now what the technology does is it delivers a cognitive screen that essentially requires individual guides, the individual to maybe for simplified it.
PJ Barclay (08:26):
It's connecting dots, it's connecting numbers across the screen using finger movements, and it's measuring many of the cognitive skills that are critical for safe driving or operating in a safety sensitive environment. These are things like reaction time, ability to process, cueto, miscued stimuli, ability for executive function. And while it's simple in its presentation and its delivery, what it's doing is it's engaging the brain the same way it would be during the active course of driving or operating in a safety sensitive environment. And through that, we are able to provide a predictive measure of how they would perform in that environment and in that way establish one's functional ability to operate safely. Answering that question of is this person fit to do their job at any given time.
Jeremy Reymer (09:13):
What's interesting to me is I could take this, take it at any time to see this cognitive screening. How long does it take?
PJ Barclay (09:21):
It takes under two minutes. If you're unsuccessful, you get up to another two opportunities to demonstrate your skills. So we wouldn't want a lack of comprehension or environmental noise to impact a false positive or unnecessary flag risk. So you get up to three times to do it. But if you were to do the assessment once takes under two minutes to do.
Jeremy Reymer (09:44):
I'm assuming that this is something that isn't a one-time assessment, right? Is it a daily, is that the expectation generally speaking? Is it something that maybe before a driver goes on duty, is that sort of the idea?
PJ Barclay (09:57):
Yeah, my answer to that Jeremy would be it's all of the above. So when you consider in a hiring situation, if you wanted a one-off assessment, Joe or Jane applied for a role and you want to understand that the risk associated with an individual you could deploy in assessments, they could run it and you'd be able to make a decision on a standalone single assessment, remembering that it calibrates all this driving data that we actually have. You'd understand that person's ability to operate a commercial vehicle and make a decision based on it, but rarely where the value comes in is when you consider from a wellness perspective. And when you consider a proactive way to manage impairment risk in an organization at scale, to do this on a more frequent basis and actually start looking at an individual's baseline as it fluctuates because an individual's health and individual's wellbeing fluctuates day to day.
PJ Barclay (10:51):
One day you're healthy, the next day you may have flu one day, maybe you didn't sleep well, maybe you're dealing with something that is a trauma in your life. These are all things that dynamically change one's ability to essentially have their head in the job that you're asking them to do. And by being able to measure them on a more frequent basis, you're able to identify where there are opportunities to step in and get involved and understand the why is a person flagging as risk on a given day. And that might shape the way in which you deal with that person to make sure that they can operate at their best.
Jeremy Reymer (11:27):
It doesn't detect why, because it's not providing cause, it's just saying this is right. That's correct. Acknowledging that there is some sort of deficiency, inability. I'm wondering how many folks out there might say, yeah, but asking the driver to do that, they're not going to want to work here or that sort of thing, or they're just going to feel like a little too much big brother. It's an obstacle in some cases, or at least that's the driver's perception. But what I would say, especially in this current environment that a silver lining is that carriers can be far more selective with who they hire and they can incorporate these types of screening tools to help them make better decisions, better hiring decisions. And then on an ongoing basis, especially just the risks of nuclear verdicts and settlements, I mean that's very real continues to increase. What are your thoughts and is that even a thing? Is there ever any pushback on this idea? Because this is, it's new.
PJ Barclay (12:26):
The short answer is that when someone, a group of individuals don't necessarily understand something, there is always going to be apprehension. We've learned that the hard way, the process of being in this industry for a decade, we've had a loan as well. And when you come into an industry and you don't necessarily understand the rules of engagement, sometimes you can use that to your favor. But the other side is that you've also got to realize that when you're coming in and you're bringing in something different or a different way to look at something, there may be apprehension. What we found though is that we've actually done a number of focus groups with drivers. Ultimately, this is about the drivers. And I would say I really am passionate to the point that I want to see the industry succeed. And I know that one of the areas of seeing that industry succeed is making sure that drivers can operate at their best.
PJ Barclay (13:15):
And so we did a series of focus groups with drivers, sort of what their apprehension would be, what are the barriers, what are their concerns? And the general consensus was actually when we explained what this was and how it is used and some of the success stories of where we've been able to get ahead of an individual who required heart bypass surgery or to get an individual who was struggling with sleep apnea, these things that help them prolong their careers and operate at their best. We actually got a great deal of buy-in and for all the clients that we serve, there is a general buy-in from the drivers. But what's important and is key, those focus groups, and it's key when we've seen successful rollouts, is the driver needs to be part of the story. You cannot do this in a vacuum without explaining to the driver why you are doing this, why this is important for them and how this helps them.
PJ Barclay (14:10):
And once you've got that opportunity or once you've been able to convey that message, we've seen these programs be very successful at how they've rolled out to the point that when some of those conversations are had, a driver understands where that conversation has started and it can actually start to be more open about, I didn't sleep well last night. We've had a driver where they flagged us high risk and it opened up the conversation. It had nothing to do with the health condition, had nothing to do with illegal drugs other than the fact that that driver was going through a nasty divorce and life happens. The fact is that a lot of these lives are moving in safety sensitive environments, and what you want to do is mitigate risk, but still come around the individual and make sure that they're supported because that's what makes for an engaged workforce across the industry.
Jeremy Reymer (14:59):
Yeah, very well said. I'm thinking about the fact that most of the safety companies or carriers who really are committed to safety feel like maybe it's some parallel with the inward facing camera discussions that they had to have with drivers. You have to make sure they understand why and they eventually come around and it may not even be as big a deal, certainly not as intrusive. But that being said, I would expect that those same types of companies really embrace this concept for those listening and especially those who understand the value based on what they're hearing so far, how do they engage with you? What's it like to work with Impirica?
PJ Barclay (15:37):
Well, to work with Impirica is awesome, but I would be subjective in that answer. But definitely in the context of Pulse, what we've done is we've heard what the industry have said in terms of the solution that they need. So what I can share with you, Jeremy, is that we've always been proud in the science and the rigor that we put in to make sure that the science is doing what we say it does. Science is only as great as it can be delivered into the industry. And just for context, when we started with this, our assessments were delivered via a large desktop computer that is a 48 pound standardized proprietary system that required a trained individual from the organization to run the evaluation. It took 30 minutes to do, we gave a comprehensive report and all of that was very cumbersome to the industry.
PJ Barclay (16:28):
We can give the answer, but it wasn't necessarily supporting the industry in addressing this issue at scale. And over an extended period of time, we just heard the industry and sort of say, what is it that you need from a technology that would help you make a quick decision when it matters most? What you want to do is you want to have stakeholders who are confident that the risk of impairment is being mitigated at any given time. So doing that skill is important. So the issue of the science became less topical and it is more how do we wrap this into a technology where it can integrate with platforms, you can still have confidence in there and accurate result. You've got confidence in the person doing the assessment is the person in fact that you want to be doing the assessment and then making sure that this could be self-administered so you could do this remotely. And those became a bit of the technical challenges that we had to overcome. And I sit here with a solution in the market today, serving industry very proud of what the team in this organization have been able to do to take that science and somewhat democratize it, to make it available for people to use at scale, helping real decisions at any given point in time, be it pre-hire or in that relationship of employment between the driver and their employer.
Jeremy Reymer (17:46):
For those who say, okay, I'm interested, where should we direct them?
PJ Barclay (17:49):
So you can come to our website, empiric Tech, we've actually got a pols product website where you are also able to go onto the website and sign up and actually start doing a free month of evaluations, no obligations just to feel and understand how the technology can actually be used within your organizations. I would encourage do that or reach out to us and we would be happy just to hear about what your safety mandate is, what your hiring mandate is, and how we can potentially help you in using this technology within your risk mitigation strategy. Where conversation is always helpful is it's one thing to give a result. The other side is how do you respond? I want to be very clear here that the goal is not to be punitive. The goal is to provide the right support around a driver when it's that employment relationship.
PJ Barclay (18:41):
But then when you consider on the pre-hire side is can we help your hiring team make a quantified decision around a driver before they even step in the vehicle? And there's been some pretty incredible ROIs that have come out of industry in terms of how they've used this within their hiring program to see things like retention, making sure that you investing in the right talents and then also just you can see that cascade down into reduction of incidents, et cetera. But yeah, reach out to us on our websites, Perico Tech, and we've also got a product website around neuro pulses that will give you the opportunity to launch for a free trial for 30, 30 days. You can play around with the technology, you can see the results that come back. We could actually sit down with you and just sort of speak, what does a response program look like and how this fits in with your drug and alcohol policy or your occupational health policy too.
Jeremy Reymer (19:30):
We always want to make sure that it's as simple and easy as possible for drivers. So that's great. I think that box is checked and I agree, what a great point about the importance of how do you respond, how do you react? At the end of the day, we're dealing with humans, right? And so that's a really important part. And so before we go, I do want to make sure we take a minute and answer a question during the show's industry health segment, which is sponsored by Project 61. And the question is, how important is help in determining whether or not a driver's considered impaired and unfit to drive? It is essential.
PJ Barclay (20:05):
You're placing an individual in a highly complex environment and what they're exposed to is traffic route. You are looking at pedestrians, you are looking at managing your equipment, navigating through that kind of environment with the understanding that an individual on a given shift makes 18,000 decisions every single shift. And when you understand that those decisions can be impacted by one's health, which they are, it is essential that you have a driver who is healthy in that seat to navigate whatever comes. And an organization cannot necessarily every decision, every 18,000 decisions that are made, every shift, but what they can do is they can make sure and be confident that if a driver is healthy and a driver is ready to make the right decision when it matters most.
Jeremy Reymer (21:01):
I know it's foundational and I'm excited about what you're doing, and I'm excited to see this grow. Last, but definitely not least, I want to circle back to that book recommendation. In January of 2025, I formed a trucking industry book club. We've got close to 90 people in the club so far. So for those who are listening, if you're interested in joining the club, please send me a note on LinkedIn or you can email Jeremy at Taking the Hire Road.com. So PJ, what book has been impactful to you that you'd like to recommend to the audience?
PJ Barclay (21:30):
Well, Jeremy, I think I'm going to cheat. I'm going to give you two recommendations if you don't mind. I would say hands down, one of the best reads that I've had is Darien GR by Bernard Brown. And the next book that I'd say over there is Dare Lead by Her as well. And just from the perspective of the seat that I found myself in is we rarely do find ourselves in an environment where we are reshaping how the industry is looking at this topic of impairment. For so long, there's been a status quo approach, and we've had to really make ourselves vulnerable and be courageous in how we get the industry to rethink this topic of impairment. And in the first book, Daring Greatly, it really is speaking about the courage of being vulnerable and the courage to be vulnerable and not necessarily work against this idea of shame.
PJ Barclay (22:27):
And yeah, sometimes in life you're going to fail and sometimes in life you're going to succeed, but you ask yourself, which one would you rather want to do if the book centers around the famous speech from Theodore Roosevelt, the man in the arena, and interestingly enough, my, it's on my wall. You're going to say it's on your wall too. I've got it on my wall as well. And that's what it centers around, is that when I finish up with my career one day, which I don't know if I'd ever finish up, I don't think I'd ever retire. I think when I die one day, I want to make sure that I'm the guy that has dust on his face that has done everything possible to bring value to an industry that I become very passionate about. Daring to lead is the one that's a bit more focused around being vulnerable in leadership, which I think is so important. We don't know everything. We need to have a constant learning mindset and a growth mindset, and the only way you can do that is by being vulnerable. So that would be my cheat in saying that. There's two books over there that I'd encourage the listeners and the viewers to read, if you haven't already.
Jeremy Reymer (23:28):
Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for that because Brene Brown, it's something that's mentioned on here, certainly more than a few times. Thank you so much for joining me, PJ. I look forward to seeing you at some more upcoming industry events. Thanks for Inva, Jerry, and thank you for Taking the Hire Road with me once again. Special thanks to the sponsors of the show. We really appreciate you. If you're interested in being a sponsor or joining me for an interview, please email Jeremy@takingthehireroad.com. Until next time, thank you for Taking the Hire Road.