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Dan Birnstihl speaks with Victoria Smith, New Hampshire Produce Safety Program Specialist from the NH Department of Agriculture, Markets and Food
Advice from farmers, regulators and others on how New Hampshire produce farms can better comply with Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA) rules and regulations.
Dan Birnstihl
Welcome to our podcast series on the Food Safety Modernization Act. This podcast mini series is put together for educational purposes, we will be sharing information to help New Hampshire produce farms better comply with rules and regulations by learning about legal obligations, innovative ideas from local farmers resources to help producers common shortfalls regulators are seeing when they inspect farms, and the implementation of best practices on farms across our state. My name is Dan Bernstein. And today I got the chance to sit down with Vicki Smith, the New Hampshire Produce Safety Program Specialist from the New Hampshire Department of Agriculture, to hear a regulators point of view about the Produce Safety Rule. Thank you for joining us today, we just wanted to have this discussion to get some information out to New Hampshire growers about the state of the Food Safety Modernization Act in our state, we thought you'd be a great person to ask talk to you about this and bring some information to light. Okay, ask away. All right. So I know you've been a big proponent of on farm readiness reviews, which are kind of like practice inspections, even to farms that are not fully covered by the final rule. Can you tell us a little bit more about what those are?
Victoria Smith
Yes, I can the on farm readiness reviews were designed for regulatory agents and educational proponents and like Cooperative Extension to put together a program where we can go onto a farm and assess their current status to be compliant with the Produce Safety Rule. And this is a voluntary visit that we make on phone when we do this on farm. So we go out and we'll walk from the packing house to the growing. Look at harvest practices. Let's see what the farms where they were obtained in the water sources. After irrigating if it's a surface pond, if it's a well, we look through all of the aspects of the produce safety, we'll see how they, how close they are to being compliant, and how we can assist in them becoming compliant with the Produce Safety Rule.
Dan Birnstihl
And none of that as a formal inspection. That's more just to help the farmer
Victoria Smith
right. It's not a formal, it's not a regulatory inspection. In fact, we have a checklist that we take with us, which was developed from the National State Department's of agriculture and FDA, along with some extension folks, we take that checklist with us. And it kind of follows the Produce Safety Rule, each section of the rule, we look at health and hygiene training of employees, livestock entrance onto the farm, harvest practices, water sources, and what the sources if they're irrigating by trickle overhead, we also look at packing houses. And then we also at the very end, we discuss a food safety plan. They don't need to have one according to the Produce Safety rule. But it's highly recommended that it's a lot easier for them to keep the records and to get a full scene of the entire farm. Once they have it down on paper. It's it's easy for them to take it in blocks and look at what they need to be compliant with.
Dan Birnstihl
All right. So I know there was a question about who qualifies for an on farm Readiness Review. And so some of the categories if people aren't familiar are, you know, not covered by the Produce Safety rule at all. That means you're selling under $25,000 of adjusted produce sales annually. There's qualified exempt, which is where you're over that $25,000 range, but under $500,000 a year, and then there's fully covered, right, so for fully covered that's required for a non farm Readiness Review, right or for the actual inspection
Victoria Smith
right there. If I'm honest review wasn't required, it is a voluntary is requested by the farm. The current federal funding, we just were awarded another five year Fund grant fund to continue the program includes on-farm readiness review as part of the educational components and outreach efforts. So any farm can have a on-farm readiness review just in spite of their status of being small, very small, or qualified except we will do outreach is part of the funding. That's fantastic. It really is. Right
Dan Birnstihl
we just performed our needs assessment we spoke to about 20 farms in the state and even qualified exempt farms also the same thing we'd love to have something like that.
Victoria Smith
Right right. We actually have two farms that qualified example one may be closer to being a large farm down the road because of the increase of sales and okay CSA but we are going to be scheduling that probably April or May so we can see some some growing a greenhouse growing actually to set
Dan Birnstihl
Okay, right. And the best way for growers to schedule an on farm Readiness Review would be to reach out to you directly
Victoria Smith
they can they can contact us if they go to our website which will give the address at the end of the conversation. We have a FISMA we have a on five minutes we review request form which they can access and fill out and send into To us, they also can contact their local Cooperative Extension educator to discuss, you know, scheduling a unfair ministry view, and they will contact me and we have coordinate. In the past, we've had an extension agent, I call them agents, educator come with us, we go on farm. And we conduct that, before we do an on farm ministry visit, we actually do a phone call before that, to get some sense of knowledge of the Produce Safety rule of the farm. And we will kind of go down to see what areas they need most help with. So ask them, you know, are you a family owned farm? Are you employing folks other than your family, which means what kind of training we would need to have? We also want to ask if they're a diversified if they have livestock, because again, there's another component as far as water quality. And if they use in that particular manure for fertilizer, we also will find out, you know, if they're of small, very small, if they're exempt, qualified, exempt, we ask those questions also. So we do this checklist via recall. And then we'll go out there with our own checklist, and go down through each segment. Each actually, they've qualified the, excuse me, the checklist that we use is actually based on the Produce Safety Alliance, training, scopes, that template, so we kind of go down according to the scopes, and we begin with health and hygiene and trait five, you know, employee training, we'll go down to all those questions and see what areas that we can and kind of assess how close they are to being compliant. Also, we're able to get a really good view of the farmers are walking around. So we're able to look at packing, growing, harvesting. And those types of areas, kind of the whole operation really is Yeah, I like to think of it when I I'm a PSA trainer. I'm a lead trainer actually. And I kind of I like to have the farmer think as their farmers, that whole living organism. So they get a big pitch out, I say to the people we have on a class, okay, get a pitch of your entire farm, like you're doing an aerial view. And think of where you have hedgerows, think of where the water is coming in. Think of the elevation of the fields and where the water is draining down to think of where your wells are located. Do you have animals? And do you have is there access for wildlife to come on and, you know, eat some of your crops and leave behind some feces, you know, that need to be picked up? Or is can that crop then be harvested. So we asked people to really look at as a living organism when I when they do the training. So they get a better idea. Rather than taking one field at a time they they can look to see exactly where they need to do some improvements or where they want to start and not to overwhelm them. You start small we don't expect farmers to, you know, invest a lot of funds and improving how they do how they how the pack and like we don't expect people to have new pack and houses new pack and lines, all new equipments, all that stuff. We don't expect that at all improvements incrementally is what we'd like to see. So that's how we go about this. That's how I go about it anyway.
Dan Birnstihl
All right. And just to be clear, this is available to farmers prior to their first inspection. So any case they have to get worked out on the farm readiness, right?
Victoria Smith
Awesome, right? Although right now the federal law requires that small and very small farms actually begin to be inspected, they should have been done last year. We're a little bit behind with at the department because we didn't get the program until halfway through the first grant from another agency. But we do have all of our large farms inspected and ready to you know, they've they've been done. And now we're going to be working on the small and very small farms. But we're willing to do on farm readiness reviews anytime. We just need to schedule them perfect.
Dan Birnstihl
For the farms that have already had an on farm readiness review or inspection. Can you give us a general idea of what areas of strength there are for New Hampshire growers,
Victoria Smith
areas of strength in what they already have in place that makes them more compliant? Well, the one advantage of several of our large farms we have 23 large farms we've identified and we've done inspections on several of those farms, gapped, certified good agricultural practices within the USDA program. That's a voluntary program. And I'm a former GAAP auditor with a department so I know the program pretty well perfect and so those farms are required to have a a food safety farm safety plan. And within that plan, they need to keep certain records and the USDA and FDA has have come Find the requirements of those records so that they can be revealed and accepted and either program. So if your gap certified and you have training records, those records can maybe with some tweak and be compliant within the Produce Safety Rule, which is really big advantage. And the other advantage of these files that are GAAP certified add that they have a training program in place for the employees. Oh, yeah, so some of these farms that have training employees keeping records, that's new to a lot of farmers, some of the midsize Farms, a small farms that do under 500,000. But over the tune of 50,000, they usually have a lot of employees a lot, meaning maybe five to 10. And they are they make sure that they are doing training, and they want to know what type of records what type of training they need to have. And there's a lot of educational videos out there as to Cornell to Penn State. And I know extension, UNH ascension has links to those, we also have links that are available for, you know, for these farms. The other strength is farms that have CSAs and have on farm farm stance, their method of record keeping for sales and harvest amounts, seems to be pretty good. And they need those need to be maintained. So they know what to sell on and how much to sell into they know where they fall within the requirements of the produce safety load, are they at over 250 1000 of total of 50,000? Are they over 5000. I mean, you know, and what the sales have. So let me see employee training, record keeping, harvest and packhouse is there's a few that have really good systems in their large, some of the large farms have some really good procedures in place and protocols of harvesting, how they have as to how they move it to the pack house, and just how it moves within the pack and house is very important. So that's another strength that a few of the children have 50,000 and larger farms have in place. I think those things are the strengths.
Dan Birnstihl
And anything on the other side.
Victoria Smith
Well, some of the weaknesses that we have found, when we've done initial inspections, without Produce Safety rule, we have initial inspections and we have routine. The initial inspection is we regularly educate before we regulate. I know that was one of the questions you have later on but Bria will go in and look at and see what the families what how compliant they are. One error that farmers are lacking are definitely employee training, and record keeping of that. If some of the larger farms needed to pesticide workers training, they have some idea of what's required. They just need to add a health and hygiene component to that. And there's a lot of information out there, which will help those farmers identify what they need to train and how they need to train, like washing your hands in that type of that type of scenario.
Dan Birnstihl
The difference between cleaning and Santa?
Victoria Smith
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. The other thing would be identifying when a worker should not be working. Again, it goes back to health and hygiene training. If the worker is sick, they shouldn't be handling fresh produce and getting supervisors who who are below the owners to understand that and train that out and be able to identify that that's a whole nother area that we that we see is kind of weak with, you know, with some of the owners, some of the growers out there. Yeah.
Dan Birnstihl
And that's tough. I used to supervise a farm myself and, you know, grow out workers are not going to come on and say hey, I don't want to work today. They they want to get a paycheck. Right?
Victoria Smith
Exactly. That's tough to identify the product safety Alliance, global training is a really good way for farmers and they can they can send their their workers to, of course, if you're a large farm, you have to have at least one person go to the training and meet the training. But as we conduct these trainings with extension, we anybody can go, you know, we if you are a small farmer, very small farm, you can still participate. We want to make sure that we identify the large farms where they need to have the training, but we're certainly willing to, you know, accept other participants. Absolutely.
Dan Birnstihl
Yeah. And I just I can vouch for that. I just took my PSA Guard training as well. It was easy. I think they're doing them online right now is convenient. If you can't do doing
Victoria Smith
online. Why did you did? Yeah. And how was that I haven't haven't conducted on
Dan Birnstihl
it was great. Yeah, it was a two days, you know, pretty quick and easy and painless. I learned a lot. And then I actually took the train the trainer course shortly after so
Victoria Smith
good. So we have another trainer stocked up with other safety knowledge. That's good. Right, right. Okay.
Dan Birnstihl
So you alluded to it before, but FISMA seeks to educate before and during regulation. How does this send this sentiment and the department's regulatory role work together?
Victoria Smith
Well, this is very interesting to me because I spent 28 years as a as an agricultural inspector for the Department of Agriculture in New Hampshire. And I had always been a regulator for all those years. And some of the programs that we were enforcing required us not to give advice, or correct, you've got corrective actions to the produces. And it was always kind of bothered us, myself and some other colleagues of mine that we couldn't, you know, give out the information, they reverse almost left up to the farmer to decide how they had to correct him. This program is much different in that we can assist the farmer in becoming compliant. Now, not to say if I go onto a farm, and I see something that needs to be corrected. I, I assume it's going to be corrected within a timeline that I that that was discussed upon between the farmer and myself. Sure. And I did I do expect farmer cooperation with this produce safety rule, it is a federal rule. And we did adopt that at the state level. So it's fully enforceable by us. But we want to make sure that the farmer understands the Produce Safety Rule, and when it should be implemented, if something needs to be corrected, and needs to be corrected, sure, you know, also, because this rule is based on food safety, you know, there's some pathogens out there. And I've learned quite a bit about this, or the trainings I've done with under FDA, that easily, you know, transmittable on fresh produce, that can make a person sick. Yeah. And a lot of these illnesses, people don't think that maybe they have the flu, instead of having a pathogen, you know, human illness. And so a lot of them aren't identified necessarily, you know, a lot of people may not go to the doctors, if they have a stomach flu, if they think it's a stomach flu, but just educating the farmers on, you know, what pathogens around it, you know, that can contaminate produce is to me, it's very important that they understand that Absolutely. Right. Right. Yeah. And
Dan Birnstihl
I think the spirit of this rule is, is in good place, you know, nobody wants to get their customers sick.
Victoria Smith
No, that's exactly right. As far as regulatory work is concerned, when we do a initial inspection, is educate before we regulate. And then we after we do an initial inspection, we do a routine inspection, which is part of our state rules. And within the routine inspection, that's more regulatory. And if we see something that needs to be corrected, we expect compliance. However, if during an initial inspection, or even an on farm Readiness Review, if we see an egregious situation, and we do have a definition for that in a state rules, it's the federal definition. And that's where human harm or illness is is evident is going to it's going to happen, then we can go in there and require corrections to be done. You know, something's got to be done, right there. And we do have within our state rules, we do have stop sale, use removal orders. We do can require recall a product if necessary. And we do work hand in hand with FTA. Officials if those situations do come up. So just to let people know, we want to educate people regulate as needed.
Dan Birnstihl
We were joking before the podcast started about, it's good to stay on the Vicki side, you don't want to get over to the Victoria side. And that's when you get
Victoria Smith
well, people who know me as an inspector know that I'm pretty fair, I give a benefit of a doubt. And I'd like to want to see things corrected. We have no intention of shutting these farms down. It's not the the it's not the reason why we have the rule. We really want to make people aware that they should be that they should be growing clean produce good photos. And if they need assistance with that we can certainly help them and if not extension can step in and help them also. Absolutely, yeah, right. We have a good real I've always had a good relationship with extension, all my 3540 years working with them. So I'm very pleased that extension has a very good photo safety team. Working Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Dan Birnstihl
I'm new to the team, but it's been. It's been wonderful.
Victoria Smith
It's been very good. We've we've done really good photo safety trainings, and other other meetings. So I'm very happy with the with the work working with you guys.
Dan Birnstihl
Excellent. So when the FISMA legislation was first discussed in the legislature, one argument for our state was to have state inspectors and set of federal inspectors on our produce farms. In the years since FISMA. implementation has started, how of the state inspector has been a benefit to New Hampshire farmers.
Victoria Smith
Well, myself and my colleague who works with me, Deborah ban, she and I have been agricultural inspectors and organics inspections for over 30 years. We've known each other that long and she was As a part time, organic processor inspection inspector for the Division of regulatory services where I had worked up until 2015, when I retired, so we have a good knowledge of the farms in New Hampshire, and been traveling all over the state for many years. So having that familiarity with the farmers, how farmers, how they understand what we're trying to do as inspectors has really benefited the US state program. Rather than having an unknown. FDA inspectors come in and do inspections, it's been a lot better for us to have the agricultural inspectors as Pro safety inspectors. Because we understand agriculture in New Hampshire, we know the landscape. So it's been a real benefit. We're hoping to, you know, find some younger people to come into our product safety program, and so that we can train them to be, you know, photo safety farm inspectors, you know, down the line. So it's been a real benefit for the New Hampshire farmers.
Dan Birnstihl
I would imagine. So just having that more personal connection a little bit easier, easier accessibility to your inspectors,
Victoria Smith
right. And personally, for myself, the several of the large farms that we have had to inspect according to the rule, I was the gap auditor, so I'm very familiar with the crops that they've grown and the farm workers and the records. So I'm just been been an advantage for me anyway. But I'm still finding new farms out there that I have never visited before. And what has changed is, is a lot of younger farmers not to give up my age, but there's a lot of younger farmers out there starting out which, you know, kudos to them. I mean, it's a lot of hard work. So, yeah, it's been an advantage. Absolutely. Yep. Having the department.
Dan Birnstihl
Do you have any recommendations for farmers to stay up to date on FISMA news, especially on the state level,
Victoria Smith
right? Well, they can go to our website, and our website is www.agriculture.nih.gov. And on that homepage is a banner and you click on farmers and scroll down to FSM, a FISMA. And that's our food safety page. And on that page, there's an audit farm readiness review request. There's information about the FDA, there's links to FDA guidance documents, there's links to aquatic extension, if you're interested in a produce safety grower training, there's a link for that also. So there's a lot of information and they can certainly call me and I can give my phone number if you like it's my state phone number is 638484781. In my phone is pretty much on most of the time. And my email address is Victoria. dot m.smith@agi.nih.gov.
Dan Birnstihl
Perfect. Good. If you had a message to deliver to New Hampshire farmers regarding FISMA, what would you like them to know?
Victoria Smith
Well, the rule has been around the Produce Safety rule has been around since 2016. The state rule and state law when that pattern of agriculture trickled over in 2018. They've been in effect since 2019. And the public safety rule really covers all farmers in New Hampshire. If you are a farmer, that is that has grown in less than $25,000. Average over three years and adjusted for inflation, then you're you're exempt from the rule. However, you still cannot sell contaminated food. Right. Okay. Right. So that's the caveat there. They still federally you still can't sell contaminated food, no matter what, what your sales are average in for those producers that do sell over 25,000 And then up to over 500,000 The rule affects everybody. And I don't think the New Hampshire farmers understand that. And so I really want to get make that point out there that you aren't covered by the Produce Safety rule. You are responsible to grow food that's not contaminated. So we we want to help you with that with our program. And we will be visiting his farms this this summer. And as part of the grant we are developing, we have been developing a farm inventory, which is a requirement of the of the of the rule for us to do we have our own state authority for the Produce Safety rule. But the federal government funds so 100% and so we go according to what the grant that we have to fund the program, what requirements and one of them is to develop a farm inventory. So we are adding farms so they inventory and then we will be verifying those, you know, by calling the farmers or visiting them what the status is. So the Produce Safety rule in the New Hampshire Produce Safety Rule affects everybody, not just those large farms, which I think is a misconception out there. And we'll go Want to help any farmer understand what what the requirements are? That's great. And
Dan Birnstihl
since so many farms in New Hampshire are smaller farms, I think that's great to know. Right? So IF listeners have any more questions about the Food Safety Modernization Act, I'd like to direct them to www.extension.unh.edu and find the food safety and agriculture and business page under agriculture and gardens. Vicki, I'd like to thank you very much for joining us today and taking the time to speak with us. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
Victoria Smith
I appreciate you having me on. I appreciate giving out any information about the Produce Safety Rule. i i It's a lot of work to run the program. But I really, I've always liked visiting the farmers in New Hampshire and be willing to work with them that answer any questions that they may have. Thank you for having me.
Dan Birnstihl
Thank you. This podcast is a production of the University of New Hampshire Cooperative Extension, an equal opportunity educator and employer. views expressed on this podcast are not necessarily those of the university, its trustees or its volunteers, inclusion or exclusion of commercial products, and this podcast does not imply endorsement by the University of New Hampshire, US Department of Agriculture, and Hampshire counties cooperate to provide extension programming in the Granite State. Learn more@extension.unh.edu This UNH Cooperative Extension podcast is supported by the Food and Drug Administration of the United States Department of Health and Human Services as part of a financial assistance award. Fai M number you two F F D 007437, totaling $329,729, with 100%, funded by FDA and HHS. The contents are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official views of nor an endorsement by FDA or HHS for the United States government.
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