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You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
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Speaker 1:Find out more by following us on social media or going to our website at youcanmentor.com. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:What up, mentors and mentoring leaders? Hey. I'm here to talk about the National Christian Mentoring Gathering. I would love to see you and your team join us in Colorado Springs, Colorado, April Sixteenth through the eighteenth. We're gonna be there for three days.
Speaker 2:We're gonna get refreshed and recharged as Christian mentoring leaders. At the gathering, we're gonna connect with God and other mentoring executives, learn best practices. We're gonna build key relationships to collaborate and encourage each other. There's gonna be good food, beautiful surroundings in gorgeous Colorado, meaningful conversations. I promise you and your team will leave inspired, equipped, and ready to pour out.
Speaker 2:Go to our website, youcanmentor.com, to learn more and to sign up. Can't wait to see you in Colorado. You can mentor. Sign up today. Alright.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the You Can Mentor podcast. Zach Garza here. I am with Mike McGarry from youth pastor theologian. Mike, say hi.
Speaker 3:Hey. Hey. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Doing well today, Mike. So I I came across Mike and his, all of his stuff a couple months ago, and I just absolutely loved it. Like, anyone who's been doing youth ministry for almost twenty years, I mean, they have a seat at my table. So I'm super excited about, finding out more about Mike and what he does. But, yeah, Mike, happy, happy podcast day, my friend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man. I've been looking forward to this for a while since we connected. So, yeah, it's good to see your face and to to finally meet you.
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks, man. So, Mike McGarry is out of, the Boston area, and he has served as a youth pastor for eighteen years. He's married. He has a couple, kiddos at home who are teenagers. He is a ordained pastor.
Speaker 2:He has a doctorate in ministry, with a focus on ministering to emerging generations. He has written is it four books, Mike?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Four the fourth is coming out in a couple months.
Speaker 2:And so he's an author, and he is just passionate about all things youth ministry, youth mentoring, building relationships with kids, exposing them to the bible and the gospel and helping them have a faith that is, that's that is deep enough to, carry them into adulthood. So, so, Mike, so
Speaker 3:which is, you know, always ranked up there in most pagan places of America. And, you know, so when I was a teenager, I grew up in church. My parents divorced when I was in middle school. And my youth pastor was just really faithful and mentored me and had a really big impact in in my own life, in my own, faith development. And, my group of friends sound it sounds like the beginning of a really bad joke.
Speaker 3:I was an evangelical Christian. Other friends were kind of mainline liberal, Protestant, a few Catholics, an atheist, a Buddhist, and a Jew. And this was just my group of friends. Like, whenever we would hang out, like, this was my crew. And so, you know, I mean, faith and ethics and debates about whatever's going on in the world, the stuff comes up.
Speaker 3:And so from an early age when I was a teenager, I really just had to be able to know what do I actually believe and how do I talk about that in a way with unbelievers that is both unashamed of being biblical and having to tell your best friends, when they ask you point blank. So you think if we all got in a car crash on the ride home tonight, that you are the only one like, you are the only one who would be going to heaven, and we would all be going to hell. And as a teenager, how do you answer that question? And as a as a teenager just having to say, this is why I keep trying to spark conversations about Jesus and why I think it matters so much because I don't want that to be the case for you. Right?
Speaker 3:So I think that shapes you in some really interesting ways. So as when I did become a youth pastor, and it's still kind of in the same general areas where I grew up. So, you know, it's very post Christian. Going to church is not cool. No one goes to church just because, like, that's where all your friends are.
Speaker 3:Like, if you're going to church, it's pretty much because you're forced to by your parents or because you wanna be there. So how are we helping kids to really know what they believe, why, and equipping them to talk about it with others who just kind of shrug and go whatever? So that's some of my background that I bring into youth ministry theologian because I think it's just really important that kids know what it means to actually be a Christian.
Speaker 2:So tell me some ways that your youth pastor kinda helped shape you and, help you answer those super difficult questions.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, Craig, honest I mean, so much of it is the ministry of presence. Yeah. Right? I mean, I I so here I am, the guy with a doctorate who's written book who writes theology books for teenagers and who leads a ministry called youth pastor theologian.
Speaker 3:And, I mean, the ministry of presence is is so foundational for youth ministry and youth mentoring and youth discipleship and youth event. Like, it it really is. It's relationships. Right, and being there. And Craig was there.
Speaker 3:Right? I mean, simply put, Craig was there. So when when life hit the fan and things started to blow up, he was there. And when things were good and really, like, banging, he was there too. And so yeah.
Speaker 3:When, yeah, when when I had questions and I didn't know who who to talk to, I could talk to Craig, and I knew that he would listen. And, he I love Craig. If he's if he finds this and listens, Craig, I love you. Right? I don't think he would be the fur he would be the first one to say, I'm not a theologian.
Speaker 3:Right? He said, I love doctrine. I love the Bible. I love Jesus. Right, he's not writing any theology books, but he loves Jesus.
Speaker 3:He loves God's word, and he loved me. And that's what it took.
Speaker 2:Man, like, you know, that's why we're called You Can Mentor because whenever I first started to mentor, I, I was all about I've, I've got to be cool. I got to have the right conversations. I have to engage them. We have to have a great time. And what I found out over time was man, I think 80%, maybe even more of being a good mentor is just showing up with a smile on your face.
Speaker 2:Just over and over and over. And it doesn't matter if they're making straight A's. It doesn't matter if they, you know, are, you know, trying to fail out of school. Like, if you can just show up and if you can just help them experience Jesus in your relationship, then God tends to show up and do amazing things. So
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well and and I would even qualify and say it's not always about showing up with a smile on your face. Sometimes it's just about showing up. And if if you're just painting on a fake smile on your face, they would rather you just show up Yeah. With a a cloud over you and with some vulnerability, maybe even just, you know, you gotta be appropriate, you know?
Speaker 3:But to just say, yeah, man, I just I'm here and I want to be here. I just not really a great day, but I'm here and I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2:You know? Like, I think so much of mentoring is also just like inviting them into your life. Yeah. And you are gonna have good days. You are gonna have bad days.
Speaker 2:But if you can just be kinda like what you were saying, authentic, if you can be kind of vulnerable with them, then just say, hey, look, like, here, like, this is what it's like to have a full time job. This is what it's like to be married. This is what it's like to have some kiddos. I mean, for some of our kids, they they don't know anyone like that. And so, so yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's awesome, man. Well, so tell me just like whenever someone comes to you and be like, Hey, I'm a, I'm a youth pastor or I work with kiddos. What are some of the most common kinds of, kinds of questions that people tend to ask you.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think it it's what you already kind of got at and saying, like, okay. So I want to do a better job with discipleship in my youth ministry because that that's generally the the sphere that I'm in. Right? So it's usually a youth pastor coming to me saying, hey.
Speaker 3:I really wanna strengthen the youth ministry, the discipleship, the Bible teaching. What do I do? As if there's, like, here's the secret, here's the secret sauce, or here's the special formula to use. Sprinkle in a little bit of this and that, stir for thirty seconds, and out pop well formed lifelong disciples. If only.
Speaker 3:Right? So it usually it it's a it's a slower process of just thinking about, like, okay. So what is Christianity? Do we have a clear answer for just what does it mean to be a Christian? And then what does it mean to become a mature Christian?
Speaker 3:And then how do we evaluate not just where the kids in our lives or the students in our ministries are? And so if we don't know where we're going and if we don't know where they are, then how do we bring them anywhere, that's on purpose? Otherwise, we're kinda just I don't know, nomads or wandering or just hoping that we're doing Christian things, therefore, discipleship discipleship happens. Yeah. So, yeah, I I generally encourage people to think through, I I know it's kind of cliche, but head, heart, hands.
Speaker 3:And so as you think about what is a Christian, I think it really boils down to Christian doctrine, like like, ahead. What do kids know just basic Christian doctrine? And I think the apostles creed really is, has been the go to, statement of what the core heart of Christian doctrine is, throughout church history. So the apostles didn't write the apostles creed, but, early Christians did. You know, shows up in the earliest parts of it show up in the the late two hundreds, which isn't that far after the time of the apostles, but it was a verbal tradition, right, that reflects the message that the apostles taught.
Speaker 3:And so this goes back very, very early to this is what Christians have always agreed upon together. This is what it means to be a Christian. So are we teaching, and helping our kids to talk through that, not just to memorize it, but to be able to memorize it is good, but also to be able to for them to articulate and explain this is what that line means. This is what that line means, and this is what that alright. This is the discipling in in Christian doctrine.
Speaker 3:In terms of the heart, it really has to do with spiritual formation. It is typically what it's called today. I like talking about, just spiritual vitality that just seems a bit clearer and less fuzzy and mushy to me. But, like, what is our relationship with God like, throughout church history? That's usually been taught through things like the the Lord's prayer.
Speaker 3:Like, are we teaching kids how to read their bible? Are we teaching kids how to pray? Is there any, life and vitality in their relationship with the living god? Or are we just so focused on teaching doctrine that Christianity is just a good idea, but little more than a good idea? And then the last element that I usually point people towards has to do with, hands.
Speaker 3:Right? Head heart hands. And that has to do with Christian living, right? That what does it mean to live for God? And again, in church history, that's usually been taught through, the 10 commandments.
Speaker 3:And so when we look at the 10 command like, what does it just mean to live as a Christian? What is the cost of discipleship, as some have said? Right? So, the these are the things that Christians do. These are the things that Christians don't do.
Speaker 3:Do you just want Jesus to swoop in and to save you when you die, but to make no demands now? Like, that's not what it means to live for Jesus. That's not what it means to have a Christian heart. And so when we think through what does it mean to be a Christian, head, heart, hands, Christian doctrine, Christian vitality, Christian living. When we have a clearer picture about where are we trying to lead them to, then we can have a bit of a clearer vision to see them and where they are now so that we can just come alongside, not as professors, but as mentors and as adult friends, to help guide and shepherd them, to talk through kind of where they are, help them see where they are.
Speaker 3:And do they wanna stay there, or do they wanna grow?
Speaker 2:Those are awesome things, Mike. And Yeah.
Speaker 3:I just threw a lot at you.
Speaker 2:No. It's absolutely fantastic. Like, it's because one one thing that's so I mean, it is hard enough to mentor a kid that you might not have a bunch in common with. Right. And especially if it's one on one mentoring, you know, like you, you are meeting with a kid, you guys don't know each other.
Speaker 2:It's one on one, it could be kind of awkward. And now you're supposed to talk about Jesus, like, oh man, I'm about to make this even more awkward. Right. And so like our, our heart here is that not, not only would every kid have a mentor, but every kid would have a mentor. Who's helping them know Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:Right. And so what would you say is the first step in kind of assessing your mentees relationship with Jesus? Like where, where are they spiritually? Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I don't know if it's stupid answer or not, but just ask them. Right? Like, how would you define and describe your relationship with God? If we can't ask that question, then we're never gonna make progress with other thing with other questions about faith.
Speaker 3:Right? I mean, that that shouldn't be a super intimidating, uncomfortable question. It might be awkward. Yeah. But I hope it's not uncomfortable, that we as the mentors should be I I hope you know, we're not perfect.
Speaker 3:We're not, you know, holy saints or or whatever. But hopefully, we are secure enough in our own faith that we're comfortable and have a desire to talk about our faith with with these students. So asking a simple question like, hey. You know? Hey, Zach.
Speaker 3:You know, you know, I'm a Christian. You know, I I really enjoyed getting to know you. I was curious, how would you describe your relationship with God? And is that something that you'd like to talk about more? And that and how the the way they answer that question will tell you a lot.
Speaker 3:Right? If they get super weirded out and then they start ignoring you, that tells you something. Mhmm. Or if they kinda just breathe a sigh and they're like, you know what? Yeah.
Speaker 3:I have a lot of questions, and I I you know, I'm not really sure where I stand. Or if they're like, oh, yeah. Like, go to church every week, and, yeah, I I think it's good. Or, like, you know I mean, just the way they answer that broad question can help direct you in where to take conversations from there.
Speaker 2:So, like, tell me what what you would do, Mike, if, like, you ask that question and a kid just has no clue how to answer it. And there's like, you know, or they, I don't wanna say that they're against it, but they feel so uncomfortable talking about that, that they either, like, shut down or they try to change the subject or something like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I think those are some different scenarios. Right? I mean, if if it's a matter of them just not knowing how to answer the question, you know, that might be something where you're gonna say, like if they're like, you know, I don't really even know how to answer that. You could just say, like, is that something that you'd be interested in talking about sometime?
Speaker 3:You know, not I'm not gonna sit here and say that's all we're ever gonna talk about. But, you know, is that is that something that you're interested in discussing, or would you like to hear a little bit about my own journey in my relationship with God? Like, would that be helpful? Right? So that can help open that up.
Speaker 3:If they're antagonistic about it and they just don't want anything to do with Jesus, I mean, your options are a little bit limited in terms of spiritually mentoring them. I mean, you can't disciple someone who doesn't want to be discipled. But we shouldn't just treat people like projects either. And so if they're if they're spiritually closed, you don't just try to kick the door down, but you also don't abandon them. And so just keep keep showing up.
Speaker 3:And if if the lord has placed a burden on your heart for this particular student, pray for them. Right? I mean, that's that's not the last thing that we do. That should be the first thing that we do in mentoring is is praying for them. Do we really believe that, their heart is in the Lord's hands first and foremost.
Speaker 3:Right? So pray that that God would work in them, on them, and just keep showing up, as you're able. And I wouldn't press it too often. But I also would be very weary and cautious against just dropping spiritual things entirely because kids don't just need, adult friends. Right?
Speaker 3:Like if if you want to be their mentor, then you need to be their mentor, not just their buddy. And I have seen youth workers fall into the place where a kid was spiritually closed, so then they just became a buddy. And now they're kind of like peers with each other, and the kid is now in the driver's seat of that relationship. Yeah. It can get kinda weird.
Speaker 3:You know? So I would just be careful against that. But, yeah, don't don't give up on them. Don't give up on spiritual conversations. Pray for wisdom about how best to handle those, and pray for them.
Speaker 3:I pray for that kid and pray for the Lord to open up natural, yeah, natural conversations. And and too, like, if you see movies or listening to music or whatever for your own worldview, like, if there's stuff in these movies or whatever that for you does spark a thought about your own faith, that's a natural thing for you to bring up in conversation with that student. So yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, I was just thinking, you know, if you're having conversations and a kid does something funny or, you know, maybe they're artistic or maybe they're creative. Like if you can somehow encourage them in that and kind of point them to God, like, Hey, like, that's awesome that you're so funny or that's awesome that you're so this and that, you know, you, you do know that, like, that's how God created you. And like, that's an amazing thing. And so, which, I mean, speaking of that, Michael, like you just are, about to put out a book about helping kids, experience that aspect of God in them.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I I just finished writing it. It's in with the publisher for review and editing and all that fun stuff. But I'm really excited.
Speaker 3:It's coming on August. So it's called iconic, being god's image in your world. Iconic is about what does it mean that we are created in the image of god. And as a book that's written for teenagers and young adults. So, you know, 13 to 25 year olds, you know, roughly is who I had in mind as I was writing it.
Speaker 3:And in all these conversations about identity formation and who am I, who am I, who am I that we're just constantly surrounded by? And it's a really important question. But just kind of burdened that before we start asking who am I, we really need to ask the question, what am I? Like, what does it mean to be a human being? And that's something that we've lost.
Speaker 3:That's a question that we just don't ask anymore. And if we've forgotten what we are as humans, yet what we are as people, men and women who are created in the image of God, then we're always going to struggle to, to answer the question, who am I if we've forgotten, what am I as an image bearer? So the book's, driving at kind of what does it mean for us to be and to bear the image of god. And so, yeah, just in brief, yeah, getting at was that what we are is the image of God and at the in the sense that we are iconic. Right?
Speaker 3:We are living, walking icons of God in this world. And so, the Greek word for image is actually the Greek word icon. That that's where icon comes from. And so what we are is living embodiments, living icons that God has put in this world to represent him. And, one of the things that's interesting when I was digging into it in scripture, is, one of the places where that word, shows up in the Old Testament is the statue of king Nebuchadnezzar.
Speaker 3:Right? The, that the the you know, Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach, have been like, they would not bow down to the icon, to the statue of Nebuchadnezzar. And that's something that kings would do. They would build statues of themselves and put it in different places, key places around their empire to remind the people there who was in charge. And every so often, the people would be expected to pay honor and to show their respect to the icon, to the image of their king, showing that they recognize who's in charge and they know who their king is.
Speaker 3:And this is who and what we are, that we are living icons of God, living in this world. And this is part of why, in the 10 commandments, it says don't make any graven images. God has already made one for this world. And that's what we are as human beings. And so no matter who you are, how far you are from godliness, what you are is an image bearer.
Speaker 3:If you have if there's someone with severe, disability who the world looks at and says they contribute nothing to society, that person bears god's image just as much as the godliest person you know. They have equal dignity and honor as a human being, and yet at the same time, sin has corrupted our ability to bear God's image faithfully. So instead, we are we are icons of God who then try to make ourselves the kings, of our own little kingdoms where we've been planted. And because we're, right, we're living statues. Right?
Speaker 3:We're living icons. And so sin has corrupted, what is in us that should direct others to God. And that's where our identity comes in. Right? So is my identity that of a cry of a Christian who wants to embody and represent, the goodness and the glory of Jesus Christ to those around me?
Speaker 3:Or am I trying to be self iconic or do I want to be iconic of Christ in my school, in my community, on my team, in my family. What does it mean for us to be iconic as Christians? So that's what that book is about. And I just think it's a really important conversation for us, especially in terms of mentoring, right? When you can mentor.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think a lot of these questions have to do, a lot of these conversations that we have with kids has to do with identity and who am I and what do I want to do when I get older and where will, where am I going to college? And you know, all these really big and important questions. I just think that there are some foundational conversations that would be good for us to have that I think we've just kind of forgotten are worth having and, or we don't know how to have them at all. So yeah, this book would be helpful to read with a student, and to discuss it together.
Speaker 2:Man, Michael, I'm excited about reading that man. Like anytime that we can point our mentees back to identity, anytime that we can kind of show them like, Hey, like this is how God created you. And it's a beautiful thing. Like, why don't you let me show you some more awesome things about God. Right.
Speaker 2:And so just you, you can't go wrong as a mentor pointing out the good things in them that are like Christ. And we hope that that kind of opens up the door for them to hear more about Jesus. And so, man, going to be a good read, Mike, I'm excited to pick it up, but like, I think one thing that I have had a hard time with, right. Cause like, I mean, I'm going to be honest with you. Sometimes I have a hard time getting past the awkwardness, right?
Speaker 2:Like, oh, I just don't want to ask that question. Cause I don't want to be weird and I don't want them to feel weird and it's just awkward. So we're just going to talk about sport. But like talking about God is weird. Yeah.
Speaker 2:To me, it's hard. Yeah. But to open up the Bible, like that kind of takes it to the next step.
Speaker 3:And so
Speaker 2:like, why don't you tell me how, like how, how would you advise a mentor? Like, hey. Here here's a good way to seamlessly, get you and your mentee to open up the bible together.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I also suffer from awkwardness. Right? So I totally get it. This is not me being all like, I am the perfect youth pastor theologian.
Speaker 3:And let me tell all you irresponsible people how to like, yeah. I mean, I've had so many conversations with kids over the years that I've just really struggled with. How do I, how do I lead this, in a spiritual biblical direction? And I think part of it has to do with before you ever get together. Like, what are we what are we meeting for?
Speaker 3:And, again, my experiences as a youth pastor, so listeners are are coming from different backgrounds and and situations. But for me, it was, hey. I want to I wanna I wanna get to know you, and I wanna help you follow Jesus. Is there some time when we can get together? Right?
Speaker 3:I mean, as a youth pastor, when a teenager gets together with me, they're assuming that I'm going to talk to them about Jesus. And there was a period of time when I wanted to be the cool youth pastor. And so I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna do what they expect. I'm gonna I'm gonna, like, play it different.
Speaker 3:Right? Like, bust up their expectations. And then, like, it got to the point where we'd get together every how often? And now we've gotten together for the last two years, and we never talk about faith because I'm trying to be the cool youth pastor, and I don't wanna, like, just, like, you know, be so cliche. And that's like, I wasted all that time.
Speaker 3:Like, there were so many opportunities to help them think biblically or Christianly or to apply the gospel to things that they were talk that we'd talked about. And I'm the one who was kind of resistant to it. And, yeah, I kind of just came to the point where I was like, you know what? If if kids are expecting me to talk about Jesus, then I shouldn't disappoint them. So if if the kids who you're mentoring, you know them from church, whether you're a youth leader or if they're, you know, one of your kids' friends that you're taking an interest in, and, if there is if you think that they're assuming that you're going to talk about faith, then it might it might still feel awkward, but don't disappoint them.
Speaker 3:Right? Like, they agreed to get together with you with the assumption that you're going to ask about their relationship with Jesus or the bible or or something. Right? So is it gonna still be awkward? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It is. And they knew that too, and they still said, yeah. I'll meet you for ice cream. So sometimes you just gotta go for it and just ask the awkward question.
Speaker 3:And I don't know. I mean, sometimes you just start off with, hey. How can I be praying for you? Right? I mean, that's a natural question.
Speaker 3:That's not a super intimidating question. How can I be praying for you? And they're probably gonna give you a really safe prayer request about a test that they have coming up. And you might feel disappointed that they're oh, it's just a test. Okay.
Speaker 3:It's something. They're giving you something. Take it seriously. And if the test is on Wednesday, then set a reminder in your phone. Hey.
Speaker 3:Pray for Zach's math test on, you know, on Wednesday, and then send them a text after school, not during school. Send them a text after school and just say, hey, Zach. I was praying for your math test today. Hope it went well. They might not reply.
Speaker 3:They they probably won't. They might just give you, like, a a thumbs up, or a thank you or whatever. But what what's that say to them? Right? That says, oh, like, Mike actually remembered that I had a math test today, and he prayed for me.
Speaker 3:Yep. So now next time you get together, you ask, hey. How can I be praying for you? They might still say, now it's a science test. Do that enough times.
Speaker 3:And if you remember their prayer requests, they will start opening up with other weightier requests. You know, and it it it's questions too. Like, hey. If you could ask god anything, what would he ask him? Right?
Speaker 3:Like, one of the things that I love to ask kids, as the youth pastor is, hey. If if you were in charge of youth group and if you could decide the next youth group series, what would you wanna talk about? Right? It doesn't mean that that's always what the next series was. But we were able to have really good conversations about that.
Speaker 3:And then I was able to unfold that into part of a lesson or whatever. Right? So that way they still felt heard. They were heard. But it it gets them thinking, and it gives you a a little bit of an open window to see spiritually what's going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:And just anything that you can do to get them talking about Jesus and talking about their faith or talking about the questions they have or the doubts that they have. And, Yeah. I mean, I, I think that you're just tossing out seeds and you just never know which Steve is going to turn into a conversation that is super fruitful. And so, if, like if a mentee is interested in the Bible and they're like, yeah, like I would love to talk about the Bible. What, like, what are some of the best like books in the Bible or what are some of the best kinds of stories that, that are good to start with?
Speaker 3:Yeah. People go to John a lot, but I found John is very abstract and philosophical. So I go to Mark. The gospel of Mark is just so full of miracles and Jesus' power. And so, yeah, Mark, is Mark and Luke, Luke has a lot of miracles and parables.
Speaker 3:Mark has a lot of miracles. It's very fast paced, and it's short. So in in terms of gospels, I think those those are good. I also really love first John. So reading through first John together, it's a little bit more, practical, and it's shorter than something like Romans and Ephesians.
Speaker 3:Those are very heady theological books. They think they're very important. But if you're just starting off reading a book with students, I might think either Mark or Luke, followed by first John or maybe Philippians because those are both also very short, very practical, epistles. So Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, Mike, and and and just, I, I understand that, you know, praying with your mentee and talking about God and talking about the Bible, like all of, all of these things, like you have to face the fear of man. Like, you have to face the fact that you might get rejected. But, like, what are some of the common obstacles besides those two? And tell me some of the best ways that you've seen people try to overcome this.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I think some of it's just our own insecurity Yeah. Or their insecurity. Do
Speaker 2:I
Speaker 3:am I too afraid of looking like an idiot? Am I too afraid of them asking a question that I don't know the answer to? Do I feel this sense of, like, imposter syndrome? Like, they're gonna they're gonna find out that I'm not actually as good of a Christian as they think I am. I think these are just these are real insecurities that we just that we need to face.
Speaker 3:And so I'm not talking down on them. Like, I'll just get over it. Like, this but submit those insecurities before the lord and trust him to use you, even in the midst of you feeling like maybe you will have to say, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know to a bunch of the questions that you're gonna you're gonna get asked.
Speaker 3:And that's okay if you say, I don't know. It's even better to say, I don't know, but let's figure it out together. Right? And then take take that seriously. I think one of the one of the question one of the issues too is, our own godliness.
Speaker 3:If there is, hidden sin in our own lives that we are not dealing with, then we are going to be less confident, less passionate, less interested in having spiritual conversations just because of our own sense of guilt, conviction, hypocrisy, those types of things. So I I think we need to, keep guard of our own faith and to walk in light of the gospel, recognizing the gospel is not do more, do better, try harder, be holier. But the gospel is a message of God's grace and mercy for sinners. And because of that, we can repent with freedom and we can confess our sin with confidence that it has been atoned for, that the blood of Christ has set us free. And so because of our freedom, we're able to, live with some transparency.
Speaker 3:Right? Again, appropriate transparency with our with our kids. So, yeah, I think I think those are some. And, again, maybe a selfish plug. But one resource that, I've been able to produce is a book called discover, questioning your way to faith.
Speaker 3:And so it's a short little book that I wrote for teenagers, about 20 of the most common questions teenagers ask and struggle with. And each chapter is four or five pages long. It's really short. And each chapter also has a few discussion questions at the end of it. So that way, if if you want to have a conversation, spiritual conversation with students, and you're not really sure how, the I think the book's got a pretty cool cover too.
Speaker 3:You know, pick up two copies of the book and say, hey. I just heard about this book. Seems really cool. You don't need to read through the book chapter one, chapter two, chapter three, chapter four. Give the kid the book and say, hey.
Speaker 3:Interested in kind of working through this? You know, which which of these questions have you asked before? And, I think it might be pretty cool for us to each read that chapter before the next time we get together and then talk about it.
Speaker 2:Oh, in anytime that you have someone that you're holding, like a booger or something like that Yeah. It just makes it so much easier.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so It's so much safer. It feels safer. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yep. Yes. It does.
Speaker 3:Those Oh, one last question. One last suggestion that Yeah. Please. I just I just thought about this. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I guess this is going back to how do you spark conversations about faith and spirituality with kids, is I I like to use the hypothetical peer as a question tactic. So because if if I'm meeting with you as a teen and you're a teenager, if I say, hey, Zach. What are some questions that you have about God? That might feel very pointed and direct and for you to be like, oh, well, you know, I'm the pastor's son, and so I can't really talk or, you know, oh, you're my youth pastor or my Sunday school teacher. Right?
Speaker 3:Sometimes it might be appropriate to ask that directly. Sometimes I'll say, hey, Zach. What are some questions that other teenagers in your school might have forgotten with the unspoken acknowledgment that you are answering based upon yourself?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:But I've removed it one step from you, but it's still in your peer circle. Right? So it's a hypothetical peer. Right? Like so talk to me.
Speaker 3:So how do you think a teenager in your school might respond to this scenario? Or what do they think about I use that tactic a lot, and and so that just, you know, sparks back to my mind.
Speaker 2:That's a pro move right there, Mike. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. All right.
Speaker 2:This'll be my last one, but. So I think one thing that God has been showing me as of late is, and man, I've been doing this for, for a long time now. And I'm amazed at how much I still try to be their friend. It's just the craziest thing. Like I want kids to think I'm cool and I want kids, but, but what he's shown me is like, Hey, look like, you know, what is the role that only you can play?
Speaker 2:You know, like if say your mentee doesn't have a dad around, you know, and like, you really are the only man in your life who is talking about these things. Like, if your kids. Or if a kid in your community had a mentor and you, and you got to spend some time with that mentor before they spend time with that kid, what are some of the things that you would help them remember in regards to the their role and, like, how they come to the relationship, that might be helpful?
Speaker 3:That's a difficult question. So advice for the mentor who's stepping in for kids who, really just don't have reliable adult figures in their lives. Right? I would I would guard against setting yourself up as being cooler or better or more trustworthy and reliable than the other adults who have let them down. Even if the other even if the kid is like, oh, man.
Speaker 3:I wish you were my dad. Or if the kid makes statements affirming you as better than the other adults in their life, that's going to stoke your ego. Right? It it just it is. It will.
Speaker 3:I'm not making a judgment about if that's right or wrong. It will. But you gotta be really careful to not agree with them because you don't want to boost yourself onto a pedestal, by climbing over other people's backs. Just be faithful to them and just care for them and let that be the reward. Right?
Speaker 3:Like, let that be what it means, for the Lord to use you to care for them. If if they have parents who have not been there or maybe they've been there in negative ways, Yeah. Just pray for wisdom about how to appropriately talk about or not talk about their parents, or other adult figures who have not been there. That can get really slippery and complicated pretty quickly. And so I would just be careful about that, because I do think that there's a temptation for us as mentors to, we want the affirmation that hey.
Speaker 3:Like, I'm inconveniencing myself a lot for this kid, so they better be thankful for me. Right? Like, that's real. So just be be very careful about how that feeds and stokes your own sense of ego, of coolness. If if you were not cool as a teenager and now a teenager suddenly thinks that you're the bee's knees.
Speaker 3:Right? I mean, that's a really dangerous position to put yourself into, and so you gotta be really careful about that. It used to be primarily, you know, with, you know, guys and and and girls. Now it's even the same gender. It is not doesn't have the same protections, that maybe, a couple decades ago, things seems safer or whatnot.
Speaker 3:That from an un Christian from a non Christian standpoint, it can seem really creepy and weird for adults to be hanging out with teenagers who are not their kids or are not related to them. And so you just need to be aware of that and guard against that. Don't let that keep you away from investing in kids, but do let it encourage you to have real good safeguards in place and to protect against the appearance of sketchiness and untrustworthiness. Yeah. So, yeah, just speak speak truth, speak speak life, speak hope, with honesty and integrity, not with fluff, not with flattery, not empty affirmation, but meaningful affirmation to kids is what they need.
Speaker 3:Kids know when you're just kind of, you know, puffing them up, with empty flattery. And I think sometimes we can be tempted to do that in, in youth mentoring and youth discipleship, give meaningful and thoughtful encouragements and affirmations. You know, specific compliments are always better received than grandiose broad generalities. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, those are some thoughts that come to mind.
Speaker 2:Right. That's good stuff, Mike. May I well, thank you so much for hopping on the pod today and talking to us about God and about the Bible and how to spend time with kiddos and how to how to, you know, figure out a way to overcome the hard, overcome the weird, and to talk about God and to talk about Jesus and to help disciple these kids, right, to help them love God with all their heart and all their soul. And so, man, just super thankful for you. Why don't you tell people how they can get in touch with you?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on today, and I'm really, really thankful for for you and getting to know you too. You can find me at youthpastortheologian.com, or on social media at youth theologian. So, you can find me there, and I run those accounts too. So if you send a DM or whatever, and my email address is on the website too.
Speaker 3:So I'm happy to come alongside and support churches and youth workers, and so you can find out more about the the blog, podcast. We do some training seminars, to help youth pastors teach the Bible, to teenagers. And, yeah, you can find out more at youthpastortheologian.com.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, Mike. And we can pick up those books on, good old Amazon. Right? Is that right?
Speaker 3:Yep. You can go on Amazon. They're all linked on the website as well.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, man. Alright. Well, Mike, thank you so much for the conversation, man, and I sure hope that it helps people remember that you can mentor.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate. See you. Thanks for tuning in to the
Speaker 1:You Can Mentor podcast. Give us that five star rating and share this podcast with your mentoring friends. Learn more at youcanmentor.com. Thank you.