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You've heard the book publishing podcasts that give you tips for selling a lot of books and the ones that only interview world-famous authors. Now it's time for a book publishing show that reveals what actually goes on behind the cover.
Hosted by New York Times bestselling author Anna David, Behind the Book Cover features interviews with traditionally published authors, independently published entrepreneurs who have used their books too seven figures to their bottom line to build their businesses and more.
Anna David has had books published by HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster and is the founder of Legacy Launch Pad, a boutique book publishing company trusted by high-income entrepreneurs to build seven-figure authority. In other words, she knows both sides—and is willing to share it all.
Come find out what traditional publishers don't want you to know.
Calvin Bagley
Wed, Oct 15, 2025 5:51PM 43:25
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Calvin Bagley, memoir, childhood trauma, business impact, therapy, book launch, personal story,
family reaction, writing process, co-writer collaboration, public speaking, Medicare insurance, legacy,
emotional healing, book sales.
SPEAKERS
Speaker 3, Speaker 1, Speaker 2
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Speaker 1 00:00
Welcome to the show where writers fill the tea process and their therapy. We'll talk about the
money
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Speaker 2 00:13
well, hello and welcome to Behind the book cover with your host, Anna David, where I bring you
interviews with authors about what their books have and haven't done for their lives today.
Wow. This is a special one. This is an interview with Calvin Bagley. He is the author of hiding
from the school bus, and he is also he's built multiple eight figure businesses. This book has
nothing to do with that, my company normally does not just do straight up memoir, because we
did do so many business books, because our business is all about helping people bring new
clients into their businesses with their books. But we did this one, and it I got really, really close
to Calvin and his family doing this. This really became a passion project. I flew to his launch
party in Vegas and interviewed him live there. This Calvin is absolutely incredible. What he has
overcome in terms of his childhood and what he has made his life into is an inspiration to
everybody. What I really wanted to talk to him about were only a month and a half when we
recorded this. The book's only been out for a month and a half. How, how could a book change
your life that quickly? Well, we're only at the beginning stages with Calvin, and yet, there have
been massive changes. And I know and with I check in with him every year for the next decade.
It's just gonna grow and grow and grow. But we talk about how, how is doing a memoir when
you the memoir is about some pretty traumatic things, how is that different than therapy? How
does it play into therapy? When are you ready to write your book? What is that time? How is
your family going to react? We got into all of these things and more, now I give you Calvin
Bagley, oh my god, Calvin, what a pleasure this is. Thank you for doing this.
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02:08
It's good to be here. Well,
Speaker 2 02:10
so if you had to summarize how the book, which has now been out just over a month, I'm
terrible at the math. Is it your birthday?
02:23
Well, I guess it's a month and a half now.
Speaker 2 02:25
So how is, how is having this book out changed your life?
Speaker 3 02:29
Oh, wow, you know, it's, it's kind of like bearing your soul to the world. And everyone knows me
who has read the book knows me so deeply. And so, you know, I've had even in business and in
personal, in life and in other places, people say, Wow, Calvin, I didn't just have a different
respect for me. And they're talking to me with, with, and it's funny, because they know things
about me that are so deep and and they come with, they come to me so open and with, with
different level of respect and things so it's been really, really really cool to see how people have
reacted to it, and how I am so connected to people, or they feel connected to me, and now I'm
just getting to know them. It's really
Speaker 2 03:10
cool. Oh, I love that. I the first book we ever did was for this guy, Darren prince, and he said,
You know, it's a book about his recovery from addiction, and it was not a business book at all,
and he was shocked at how it helped his business so much, because it made business
negotiations into kind of conversations between friends, because everybody knew his deepest
darkest things is that, have you noticed
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Speaker 3 03:35
that? I have noticed some of that. I've noticed that people because they know so much about
me and have have respect for me already. They are open to conversation and just to business
opportunity and things. And this is very early, you know, it's been a month and a half, but I've
already begun to feel some of that.
Speaker 2 03:55
And that is, of course, not at all why you wanted to do a book.
Speaker 3 03:58
It isn't, no, it is. It has nothing to do with it, honestly. So let's
Speaker 2 04:02
talk about this journey. What, how long ago did you say, you know, what I actually think, I think
this could be a book. At what point in your life did you say that?
Speaker 3 04:11
I think when I was in college and graduated from college many years ago, 20 some years ago, I
said, you know, this could probably be a book, partly because I had a very encouraging English
professor who had written some things for and she said, You need to write a book. And so that
really gave me encouragement. But that was, you know, 20 years ago, and so that the idea was
there planted. But there were some really important things that happened in my life more
recently, I would say chief of among all of them is, is reaching this point of acceptance of my
past and beginning to open myself up and figure out why I wasn't feeling love for myself, and
begin to love myself. And then my sister passed away, and my father passed away, and some
of these, these events mixed with me just kind of reaching resolution and realizing that I'm
happy. With who I am today, and I wouldn't be me without the events of my past. Those things
kind of got me to the point where it's like, Okay, I'm ready now to share my story.
Speaker 2 05:08
When was that five years ago or, I mean, or was there not some point where you could say
that?
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Speaker 3 05:16
I would say it was about a year and a half ago. I mean, it's pretty recent. And then, you know,
with you guys, it all came to fruition very quickly. And here it is, you know, I'm talking about my
book, which is incredible.
Speaker 2 05:27
That's crazy because so we met in a in a month, it'll be a year ago. So is it true? Is it really that
it was, and you and I didn't actually meet in person, but you met Caitlin. Was it? Was it when
you met her and saw what we did. Was it an immediate, oh my god, this is the opportunity, or
how? Because you came on board real fast
Speaker 3 05:47
I did. I was looking, and earlier that year, I had actually met with and attempted to hire
someone to help me write and realize that it wasn't a good fit. And so I was looking and had a
lot of trust for the people that referred me to you and Joe Polish and Genius Network and others
and and when I met Caitlin, I was like, Okay, this is, this feels like the right place. And so tell
Speaker 2 06:12
me about the process. You had already written how many pages by the time we met, 1000s,
Speaker 3 06:20
1000 1000 pages, at least. Yeah, a lot.
Speaker 2 06:24
So when and when did you start that was that back is in college?
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Speaker 3 06:29
No, everything that I wrote, I wrote after meeting with Caitlin, actually. So, oh yeah, yeah, I'm
serious. I By the time I met with you and everyone else there at the team, I had written a lot,
but I did that after I after I made this commitment to writing the book so I and, you know, it's
certain things happen in your life that you're not necessarily grateful for. Like, I got shingles,
which is a terrible thing anyone who has experienced that. It's incredibly painful, and you're
just like, you just, you can't do much. And I was sitting at home and I was like, Well, you know,
I'm going to be here for two weeks, and just like writing my story pounding away, and I spent
days and days just writing, writing, writing. And it's not like I needed to think. I just needed to
let it all out. And that's really what I did during that time.
Speaker 2 07:15
Yeah, if you're a PSA, if you're you know, around the age of 50, get a shingles vaccine?
Speaker 3 07:22
Oh, please, yes. It's so miserable you don't want to go through it. Yeah, box, you got to get
Speaker 2 07:29
it. I, yeah, I luckily, I got warned, and I got the vaccine because I saw someone else have it. And
I'm like, Oh, how do not want that. But so, and what a great kind of metaphor for the incredibly
painful parts of your past that, like you said, you would not be you without them.
Speaker 3 07:47
These beauty comes out of pain in many cases, yeah,
Speaker 2 07:51
and the blessings in disguise. So, so let's talk about the process. You know, we, we partnered
you with a co writer, and then, and then, this doesn't happen often, but, but it turned out not to
be the perfect fit, and then we found your perfect fit. And I would love for you to share about
that process, because very unusual, we don't often have our writers go out and, you know, go
back to the scene of the crime. But will you talk about that?
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Speaker 3 08:22
Yes, absolutely. This was, this was something that was really important to me, because I'm
trying to share my my life story, you know, growing up hiding from the school bus, no
education. There's, there's, there's pain, there's suffering, there is abuse and neglect and all
these things. I mean, I'm smiling about it today, you know, but it was a really, really painful
upbringing in the middle of nowhere, and I'm trying to share this very, very deep part of myself.
And I realized, at least for me, it could be different for someone else that I don't know, that I
could help my co writer to understand what it was to live in that place, what it was to grow up
in that place, to be completely isolated from the world, to be isolated hiding from the school
bus, isolated from school, isolated from other people, living miles away from everyone, and
experiencing, you know, day after day, trauma and crazy things happening in this family of
nine kids with fundamentalist Mormon beliefs and all this craziness, you know. And so I really,
really wanted my co writer to go with me, there, to see it, to feel it, to experience it, and when.
And you know, for me, when that happened, it was the most important part of the of writing the
book, she felt it the way I did, and we could work together to recreate it. And that was so, so
essential for me.
Speaker 2 09:49
And yeah, and what is that process like? Of you know, your writing, but you're writing with
someone else and them. I think a lot of people will say, Well, I don't want. That, because it's not
going to sound like me. It's not going to be mine, and that is not at all the reality. It felt very
much like yours. Correct.
Speaker 3 10:08
Listen, if you have the right co writer, you if you're working with the right person, they can,
they can, they can, like, see through your soul, like, see things that you're that you're you're
not saying the way and the weight that you're feeling or the expression that you're giving or
and so it was amazing. I sometimes I read things and I said, I don't know if I told her, this was
we as we were. You know, I would write something, she would she would write, rewrite things
or write things, and we would work on them together, and I would see what she had written and
say, How did she know? How did she get that deep into my psyche, my heart and everything?
Then there were other times where I was like, Oh no, no, that's, that's off. We got, we got to
work on that. And and let me, you know, and what have you, and let's, let's rework that. And,
you know, whatever. But it was amazing. And if you're working with the right person, and
you're co writing together, like they really get deep into who you are and understand you,
that's what I realized. And, you know, Lucy was amazing, like that, like the like, there's just now
we're going to have this bond for the rest of our lives. Like, she understands me so deeply. And
it's kind of odd, because I understand her quite a bit, but she really knows me like really
deeply.
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Speaker 2 11:26
But it's interesting. This is different. But okay, I started my career going and interviewing
celebrities at events, and it was kind of interesting, because sometimes you were treated like a
very special person, and sometimes you were treated like a person who presses record on their
tape recorder, which is to say, when you are the person documenting, you occupy a very
interesting role, where, where, yeah, it's just, it's just an interesting place to be because you're
a part of it, But you're documenting it, and you're sort of a part of it, and everybody treats that
person differently. You know, I really felt like one of the reasons this book makes us all so proud
is that you two are a true collaboration. And Lucy, you know what she found out she was
pregnant right around finishing, or right around your launch. And it was interesting to me to
sort of see, like your wife's response to that, you know, she really this is a two way relationship.
It is not just Lucy talking, you know, saying, What? What's true for Calvin, but it's a Lucy Calvin
relationship.
Speaker 3 12:37
Yeah, absolutely. And I think you know, if you're the one that that is working with a co writer to
write your book or your story, whatever you need to consider that relationship. Because if you
want the maximum you know this is the reason that I feel connected to Lucy. I think we, on a
true level, connected, which is wonderful, because it helped to write this great this great story
and write my story, but you've got to treat them with with respect and and understand that this
person, they they're a person too, of course, right? But they but at the same time, like they
have this incredible responsibility they feel to document your story in your life. And one of the
things that was great with Lucy is that I would write things, and she was so complimentary of
my writing, she would say, Wow, Calvin, this is amazing. I can really feel and see. And I was
like, Yeah, I might I for being not educated, and for being the first class I ever took in my life,
being a college course, which was, you know, wild and crazy, difficult to go into that structure,
having never been to juniors, high school, high school grads like, nothing. Undergrad, nothing,
not undergrad, but grade school, and go right into college. I always was complimented on my
writing and that. And I took creative writing in college, and I did very well. I was, I always got
A's on my writing, and so I had, I had written all this for Lucy, and said, like and she read, and
she said, This is amazing. I can feel, I can see, and everything. And then she took it to the next
level. And I didn't even know there was another level. It was just the next level that really was
incredible. And so that's part relationship, and part to say that when you're working, when you
go to a doctor, don't you want a specialist? You know, why don't you want someone who's just
the best in their field, and what have you? And I feel the same about writing. I i wrote, I wrote
my story, and I think it was a beautiful story, and it was, and it was, would have been a great
book. And with, with the help of a co writer like Lucy, it became an incredible book, an award
winning book, type of book.
Speaker 2 14:33
Well, speaking of the Kirkus review last week, you got a rave in Kirkus. Do you know how you
don't know how harsh they are?
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Speaker 3 14:44
Learned, I have learned, and I'm super, super stoked about it. It's incredible.
Speaker 2 14:48
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, I think that you are an incredible writer, and, and, but I also always, you
know, because about half the books we publish, the people are. Clients write them solely
themselves. And I will just be honest, sometimes they come in and we say, wow, it would have
been easier for us to start from scratch than to fix this. Because I think that nobody knows your
story better than you, but the best book is going to be written by somebody who writes all day,
every day, and has for decades and and I think that, you know, there are people, especially
today, that are like, well, I could just put it in AI, sure you could. But aren't you worth? And I'm a
big fan of AI, but like, aren't you worth a little bit more than that? Isn't your story worth, kind of
getting at the highest level, put out there redundant question, but
Speaker 3 15:47
yeah, well, I let me say about that, that now that that that my voice has been created, and it
was my voice, but it was also honed and created with the help of my co writer now that that is
my voice, and I've taken that manuscript and created, you know, an AI based on that. It helps
me to say other things in that voice. But when you don't have a voice, it doesn't work that well.
You're just gonna sound like AI, you know. And so, yeah, I mean, AI is like, AI is another co
writer for me, for sure, I've done a lot of things with AI. I love it. It's amazing. But when it knows
my voice, it the result is so much better.
Speaker 2 16:29
Yeah, I mean, AI is only as good as the you know, the pilot in control. And that's why, even if
you are gonna say, write a book with AI, have writers helping you because, because it's not
about it's it's just, what's the prompt? What are you giving it? So when you say you've created
an AI, is it one of those Delphi Calvin's? Do you have
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Speaker 3 16:51
that? So I have a Delf, yes, I have one of those. I also have use chat GPT to create a project
where it has that and and, you know, I'm that way. When I do things like, hey, someone's
asking for a some information about your book before a podcast interview, or what have you, I
can tell it hey, I want to tell about these stories and these things, and it can help me. So it's
been very helpful in sharing my story and keeping the right voice. But that voice was not
created solely by me, and that was kind of my point. Is that it was is that it was so critical to
have the help of a professional writer to really establish my my voice
Speaker 2 17:29
and and so so is Adelphi like I can there's a little picture I could go and talk to Calvin today
somewhere.
Speaker 3 17:37
it out publicly.
I haven't put it either publicly yet. Okay, I've created it, but I've used it for myself. I haven't put
Speaker 2 17:45
And so what are the next plans we've talked about TEDx talks. I foresee a huge public speaking
opportunity, if that's the direction you wanted your career to go in. What are your plans?
Speaker 3 17:57
Oh, I love all of that. I'm at this point, I'm open, yeah, to what comes. And I'm not necessarily
pushing really hard for for one thing or another. You know, business is very good. I work in
Medicare. Insurance was the farthest thing from, you know, writing about about trauma and
overcoming difficulties in life and what have you, but at the same time, connected. So, so my
business is growing very it's growing very well and and so that this has been helpful for that
too. So I've shared my book with many of the people that I work with, but I if I, if I had my
desire, my desire would be to share more. My desire would be to speak on stage. My desire
would be to help, to encourage people to say that you can overcome hard things and reach a
point where you're happy with who you are, and therefore can accept and not want to change
the past, but accept it and realize that it is part of who you are, and you can love who you are.
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Speaker 2 18:51
And so, because I'm a, you know, call me crass, I'm a bottom dollar girl, I would love to hear
more about how it's helped the business. And I know we're just, like, six weeks in, but tell me a
little bit about that. Are you giving it to potential business partners? How is that working?
Speaker 3 19:09
I have been openly sharing it on I have a pretty strong following on LinkedIn, yeah. And, you
know, in the business and in my world, my tiny little world of Medicare insurance, I'm like, a
little, like a little mini Medicare celebrity, which is so funny, you know, it's like, I always give it
qualifiers, like, I'm a big deal in, like, a big fish in a small pond, so in my world, you know, I I'm
listened to, I'm respected, and I and I participate in at the highest level of my industry. And so
I've been sharing it on online, and people have come to me at conferences and said, Calvin,
you're an amazing person. I have learned so much from you, and I admire you, and I just
appreciate you, and as we have brought more value to my industry, for example, we just
released just last week, an. Website called Medicare broker directory.com it's a place for
independent agents to register on med, on a directory and to and to hopefully be found by
people who need help with Medicare, and specifically be found on places like chat GPT,
because these types of websites are really good for AI, and so I'm, you know, something I'm
doing to help my entire community, but at the same time, it does have paid tiers and Paid
Subscriptions, and it will generate revenue. And so I have a lot of goodwill, and it's a mixture of
what I've done for my industry and with people seeing what I've overcome in my personal life,
and in the first in the in the first 24 hours of lunch, we had over 100 people sign up
immediately for Medicare, broker directory.com, and so I can't, you know, you're a bottom
dollar girl. I love that, because everything I do, it has to, it has to work in a spreadsheet with
the actually, with the exception of this, this didn't mean for me. This wasn't a financial it wasn't
done for financial purposes. But I can't necessarily give you exactly how it has all the specific
things that have happened, but I know that it has improved my my relationship with the people
who follow me. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2 21:11
interesting, because a lot of the people I've been interviewing are people whose books we
published five years ago, seven years ago. It's insane what's happened. And again, as a bottom
dollar girl, it always makes me happy when they say it's generated millions, because I'm like,
good it makes what you paid us look like a drop in the bucket. That's what I want, you know,
because I want people to say this was the best investment I ever made. So ultimately, being a
bottom dollar girl is selfish. I don't want anyone to not be thrilled with what we do, but so so
this was your this was a non spreadsheet item, though, for you. This was for your soul.
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Speaker 3 21:47
This was for my soul. This was for my legacy. This is for my children, my family, my future
grandchildren, for me to it was also for me to put my to because so much of my journey going
from complete isolation, uneducated, having literally learning the alphabet backwards as a
child because no one was teaching me and not having not being able to do times tables when
I'm 20 years old, and figuring that out so I get my GED. Just all this, this, this journey to
overcome. I through writing my story, I was able to really put myself in that hero's journey and
to share it. It was too much for me, and not everybody wants to read it, and that's fine, you
know, but, but for my close friends and family and everything and the people around me, it was
too much for me to share. I had people very close to me who said, Calvin, I had no idea. You
never told me about the scout camp thing you never told me about, you know, seeing your
primary teacher die in a car accident when you were a child. You never told me about the
abuse that you, that you received from your father. You You didn't tell me about these things.
And it's like, well, how do I tell all that, even to my close friends that I love and people I'm close
to? How do I share all that? And also not just always be like, you know, Mr. One upper, I'm
gonna play the victim card. And you know what was me? I tell everyone, the past is in service
to you. Whatever you want it to mean. It can mean this. And what the what you assign, the
meaning you assigned to the past, is really, really important. And so if you want to be a victim,
then the past is in service to you. You You can be a victim. You can prove that you're a victim if
you want to be a hero and overcome you can prove that, because the past will mean that if you
want it to and so sharing all of this and putting it together into my memoir, in my book, it was
really important for me to get right and to share it in a way that had the right meaning and and
that. And so, you know, like I said, people very close to me said, Calvin, I just, I had no idea.
And so I've had a lot of that reaction.
Speaker 2 23:49
And so if you had to say, like, what are the so far, what have the rewards been? What's the
most surprising thing? What has been the most surprising thing about this entire process.
Speaker 3 24:06
You know, there hasn't been a lot that surprised me in the process. I think, I think the result,
maybe what surprised me in the result, is that it was better than I expected. It was more
wonderful than I expected, and I have very high expectations. I'm, you know, sorry, Anna, I'm
really hard to please. But congratulations.
Speaker 2 24:30
You don't know what hard to please is. You should see people we work with. Okay,
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Speaker 3 24:34
yeah, go. Well, I say I'm hard to please. I'm not the kind of hard to please that doesn't help. I
think you saw that like I was really involved in making this turn out as best as it could be, and
Speaker 2 24:44
down to the last period and comma, I would say, and comma.
Speaker 3 24:50
So yeah, creating sometimes stress for all of you in my level of involvement. But so it's not to
say that I had high expectations and you have to deliver. For me. No, it wasn't like that. I had
high expectations of us creating something fantastic together, and this exceeded that. And
maybe that's a surprise to me, because there have been many projects that I've started on
because I'm a quick start. I love to start a project. Quick Start eight, you know, let's, let's start
something. And I don't always see it through and finish it. That's why I need a team around me
to help me finish, which I used to be ashamed of, and now I'm now, I'm proud of my Quick Start
abilities, and realize that it's a good thing, because we put so much emphasis in the world on
finishing and and that's really important. But how do you finish a race that never started? How
do you finish a project that never started? So I my emphasis is on starting. I realized that. So,
yeah, I'm so amazed, happy, proud of what was created and what and the finished product.
And that's probably my biggest surprise, is how wonderful I think it turned out.
Speaker 2 25:54
And let's talk about how you celebrate it. Because you did something lots of people have a
party, but you chose to do your party a on your 50th birthday, and then let's talk about, what
did you do for what did you and Clarissa cook up for your guests?
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Speaker 3 26:08
Okay, well, you know, that's that was part of my dream. When this started, was on the My 50th
birthday to release my my memoir, and I sort of let it go. I was like, that's probably too much.
It's probably too much to expect of everyone else. It's probably too much to expect of myself. I
don't know that it can be good enough for me to feel like I can release it into the world. And
then it just hit me like a ton of bricks. No, this is the this is the time. And so there was a crunch.
And, you know, Legacy launch pad, I mean, you, you all came through for me, Anna, you and
your team to make this a reality in a in a titan time frame. And it was. And so on my 50th
birthday, we had this big 50th birthday party. And when you turn 50, if you've already turned
50, and if you're going to turn 50, I think you start to realize how important that it's like the
new 40 it's like this is, this is this middle of life slash over the hill, whatever you want to call I
don't feel like I'm over the hill, but whatever, it's this really important moment where you're not
young anymore and your friends aren't young anymore. But you know what? I haven't I've lost
one sibling. I haven't lost close friends. Knock on wood. I you know to you know to passing on to
another, to the next life, or whatever. And so you still have people around you, and they're
young enough. I've got friends with young kids like me. I've got friends with kids that are
starting to graduate, and it's just really good time to for a gathering. And so we had this big
gathering in Las Vegas. We invited everyone, everywhere. We had this big venue. Hundreds of
people came, and we made it a celebration about my book and my life. And you know, I'm not
one. I love being at the microphone. I love being in front of a group, but usually in service to
others, to do something that was all about me. Was was was kind of challenging and a little out
of character for me, but it ended up being wonderful. We took stories from the book, and we
had, like, a gallery with information about that. I had an interview on stage with you where my
friends cheered, we celebrated. You know, in my book, we talk about my eighth birthday. I had
no eighth birthday party and no eighth birthday cake, and no, you know, happy birthday on my
eighth birthday because I was, you know, there's nine kids I just kind of forgotten by my my
family, and my parents. And so then here I am, 50 on a stage with a birthday cake, and
everyone's singing to me, literally emotional. So it was an incredible book launch, an incredible
experience, and we were trying to also give an experience to everyone else at the same time.
Speaker 2 28:36
Okay? And let's clarify, there were goats, there were goats there. And when you say a gallery,
there was an actual, I would call it a museum of your book, you literally, guess would walk
through. And there were big blown up pictures and passages, I've never seen anything like it,
and and then there were stations, you know, so Calvin, you weren't allowed to eat chocolate as
a kid. So there was a carrot cake station. The drinks at the bar. Will you remind me what some
of these were named?
Speaker 3 29:08
Oh, man. So no school, no schooled. Yes, we had drinks that were named after parts of my life
that were there were dirty sodas. Yeah, the dirty goat,
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Speaker 2 29:19
yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, it was, what's interesting to me is that these were traumatic,
that it's a traumatic thing, not being schooled. Can't eat chocolate, these things, and yet, and
yet, they were almost, it celebrated, is the wrong word. But what I loved, what was so beautiful
to me about it, is that you twisted it and, you know, and you made it part of like, as you said,
your hero's journey was that a conscious thing.
Speaker 3 29:48
Part of it is, is that I have always had a sense of humor that can border, I won't say dark, but
you know, just like humor to me, can be connected to. To real pain and suffering, and you can
laugh through things that that's okay, like it's okay at the same time, these things aren't painful
to me anymore. They I, as I said, I have embraced them, and they are part. They have become
part of who I am. I wouldn't be who I am if I had been if I'd gone to school, I wouldn't be who I
am without these things. And so I part of it was just embracing them, but also throwing a little
bit that, that that humor, and let's laugh about it. It's okay. It's okay to laugh about it, and it's
also okay to say, for me to say, I don't agree with what my parents did, and I think that they
were wrong, and I still love them and appreciate that I become who I am because of them. It's
okay for both things to be true,
Speaker 2 30:41
and how did, how did your family react to the book? Did you has your mom? Did she read it?
Speaker 3 30:47
No, my mother doesn't know about the book, except that some aggressive like printer or
something called her home. How would you find my mom versus call me? I mean I like certain
Google my name. You can't not find me. Yeah, I've got my own Google page. Oh, that's an
amazing thing. When the book published, I got my own Google page. I was like, wow, I have
arrived. Like, I'm on Wikipedia, you know? Like, this is a big deal.
Speaker 2 31:12
I know. Yep, tell me. Okay, wait a minute, but Lucy met your mom.
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Speaker 3 31:18
She did. Yes, yes. A part of the visit, going out there was was to meet my mother. I told my
mom that Lucy was was working with me on a project, and we didn't discuss what it was, and,
and, and I was helping my mom because she's having some some issues with her home. And I
repaired her sewage system. She needed a full replace of the the sewage system that the tank
and all that stuff, because she's in a rural area. So was respecting that and doing some of the
things. And Lucy was with me, but so reaction to my family was what we were talking about.
My hasn't been great. Honestly, those who have read it have not responded very well. One of
my sisters said, How could you do this? You don't. And the reason she said that was not for
what some people would expect. She said, as your older sister, I suffered so much that she
doesn't feel that I have the right, because I had it good. I don't have the right to put that out
there. And every time that she opens social media and she sees Heidi from the school bus, it's
unfair to her, because she's the one that suffered. And so I, I wasn't sure how to respond to that
I love my sister. I just sort of left it out there and told her, I love her, you know. And then some
of my other siblings have said things like, wow, this is a lot of effort and money to go through
just to tell people, just to get people to tell you that they like you. Wow. That was a response
from some and wow. And then my brother, who is probably has the best memory of all of us,
has said that it's very accurate. So I so i That was some good feedback, and I appreciate that.
So I would say mixed, but mostly negative, has been the reaction from my family, but not
because they have nothing, that there's nothing in there, that they have said that's not true.
It's just that they've had other personal feelings about my sharing it,
Speaker 2 33:04
yeah, well, and I met two of your brothers, and I feel like the one, the one with the really good
memory, was when we were doing that interview. He was sitting front row, nodding, nodding,
very warmly, very lovingly. But you know, I'm someone. I come from trauma, and I will tell you
that the family really does, doesn't like people talking about it. That's not you know, that the
kid that that starts being public with it is really sort of the black sheep, oftentimes, the
identified patient. Because, Whoa, you're going out there and saying that these things and, and
we're not saying, you know, there's, there's just a lot of different ways people cope.
Speaker 3 33:49
Yeah, I've often seen writers who became the black sheep and were outcasts from the family
because they had shared the family's dirty secrets. Yeah, that's actually not the reaction of my
family. They know it's dirty, and they and and it, but it's, it's different. It's, it's more personal,
their reactions, which has been interesting,
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Speaker 2 34:09
will and then I remember the night of the party seeing your son hugging you. What about your
kids? Have they did? They read it? How does that work?
Speaker 3 34:20
So I have a 13 year old son and a seven year old daughter who's about to turn eight, and they
are my world. And so, you know, we say my family talking about the book, I talk about my
siblings, but my family today is my wife and my two kids, I mean, and many of the people that
I've built around me, my friends, who've become support system and just incredible. So I mean,
if you saw the party, hundreds of people and and hundreds more that wanted to be there and
couldn't be there, we have just an incredible support system that I would call family around us.
But my children, they're young, and my son has given the book to his teacher at school who
who asked about it and. And he gave it to a friend's parent who asked about it. So he's been,
he's been handing out some of my books to people, but he hasn't read it. And I just didn't feel
that at 13 years old. It was, it was time, and he he wants to read it, but he also respected that. I
was like, Yeah, I don't, I don't. I think it's a little too heavy right now for for him, yeah, and
there's a lot of, there's just a lot in there that's, that's, that's painful. I want him to be a little
older, you know, maybe that's 16 or something, I don't know, but he'll be a little older. But he in
that moment when we were standing on stage. He knows this. He knows a lot of stories. He just
doesn't know him to the vivid nature that is shared in the book. And so we were on stage, and
everyone was singing, and we had just spoken, and he just, he started to cry. I mean, it makes
me emotional now, like he is incredible supportive son, and I do everything for my kids. And it
was a really tender moment as we embraced, and he said to me, he said, I said, I said, are you
okay? And he said, Dad, you're just incredible. So I cried, and then, of course, I'm crying like he
just just amazing.
Speaker 2 36:11
So in terms that, because we have to start wrapping up the that what I think is really
interesting, especially true in your case, is this therapeutic nature of it. We've all done a lot of
therapy. We've done a lot of work. How was the book therapeutic? How was doing this
experience in terms of being therapeutic? You
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Speaker 3 36:27
know, the therapy, the therapy part, if you haven't worked on yourself before you write the
book, it's probably going to be a little more mean and nasty. It's probably not going to be the
legacy piece that you want it to be. 10 years from now, you might go back and say, Ooh, I wish
I had maybe done that differently, and so I have done a lot of work to be at a place where I'm
comfortable with who I am, I love myself, I appreciate even the dark parts of me, and realize
that even the part of me that is anger was there To protect the part of me that is, is tender, and
was, was vulnerable, and so I've embraced all these different pieces of me. I don't think that
writing a book when you're angry is going to it. There's a time for it, and there's a place for
everything. And maybe you're going to maybe, maybe you can change the world with an angry
book. I don't know, but I'm very happy that I wasn't in that place, that I didn't write this book in
my 30s, and I wrote it when I turned 50, that it is about being going through trauma. And
people, even complete strangers, have read the book and said some of that was really hard to
read. Yeah, it was so visceral. And I just like, I had such a reaction. I've had people leave
comments and say that they quit it in the first chapter because of an animal cruelty situation
that happened. That is a true story, and as I read that, I understand that's okay. No one has to
read it. But what happened was real, and even though it was terrible that a kitten was
murdered in the first chapter of my book, I was a child witnessing that, and the pain to me, and
the scar was so deep, and it's taken me much of my life to overcome some of those deep scars.
So so, you know, I have sympathy for the for the for the child that was, that was there,
witnessing, because now I see myself as differently as that child there. So, yeah,
Speaker 2 38:23
yeah, journey, well, and there's this great Mary Carr quote. If anyone's going to be an a hole in
your book, let it be you when we try to punish through the pen. The interesting thing that
happens is it's the opposite of effective somehow, if you just show people as they really are,
with no editorializing on your part, and no trying to, like, twist the knife, yeah, they kind of bury
themselves without you having to have your vitriol all over
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Speaker 3 38:54
it. It's that's such a good point, because there is a lot that I left out of the book. I left out 10
books out of my book of things that happened in stories. And I also was very even, even though
you might read it and say, Wow, some of this is really strong. I was very soft with my siblings
and being careful not to share their stories and the depth of some of the experiences that
they've had and mistakes that they have made. I shared things that were relevant to my story,
but was really careful not to to overshare and and so there's, there's much, there's so much
that's not there. So, you know, from a from a therapy standpoint, I would say, do your therapy
before you write your book, but your book is still going to be therapeutical. How you say that
therapeutic, therapeutical. Therapeutic, therapeutical. See, that should be in my book, quote
that that's, that's a new word, therapeutical. It'll still, yeah, trade market right now. Tell it to
chat. GPT, that it was still a wonderful experience for me to see the whole of my story in that
light of. Was still carried, you know, a great like, it still was. It still had. It was like therapy to
me, but it wasn't the kind of therapy to help me get over it. Does that make sense? It's a
different type of thing.
Speaker 2 40:15
Well, to me, for me, having done it, having gone through it myself, there's all the therapy that
you do one on one. And yeah, if you try to write about something before you know something
traumatic, before you processed it, it's actually going to go poorly, not just in terms of your
rage, but in terms of you should work with a professional ghost writers, co writers, publishers.
We are not professional therapists. So, so, so. But once you do that work, this work, I believe,
takes it to the highest level, because in terms of healing, because you get it out and you get to
put it out there and and you get to have people relate or see you in a way that sitting in a
therapist's office is never going to it's never going to give you that.
Speaker 3 41:03
Yeah, you know, I've had several people come to me and say that they had childhood
experiences that either they related to it or it brought them back. And I've encouraged them to
seek professional help. Close friends, even that have come to that have opened up and said,
I've never told anyone that I was sexually abused as a child or something. And I said, you know,
then, now's the time. Yeah, get help.
Speaker 2 41:26
Yeah. Well, Calvin, any final words for people who were thinking about doing a book or want to
know the benefits of it, or what? Anything that I haven't asked you,
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Speaker 3 41:40
really need anything. You haven't asked, but I would say that you know, you'll know that it's
time, and when it's time, don't hold back, do it, and don't let the fear for me, the fear was to
was to create this beautiful story and for it to really capture my childhood. I mean, that that's
it's not like writing a business book. I could write a business book tomorrow and be like, Yeah,
I'm ready. Let's write a book about Medicare. But when you're writing something so personal,
you do need to be ready, but when you're ready, go for it. It's been an incredible experience.
Speaker 2 42:11
Well, Calvin, thank you so much. Did I say, if people want to find you, where should they go?
Speaker 3 42:17
Well, my book is on hiding from the school bus.com. You can also purchase it on Amazon, on
Audible. The audible is amazing. It was read by this by will Collier, who reads David Baldacci
books. It's like, amazing, like I listened to that, to listen to the the audible version. And I am
amazed at how he gave people character and voices professional it to the highest degree. So
anywhere that you buy books, you can find Heidi from the school bus. But if you want to learn
more about the story or see pictures from my childhood and other things, you can get that on
Heidi from the school bus.com. Amazing.
Speaker 2 42:49
Kelvin, thank you so much for doing this. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to behind the
book cover. If you loved it, I hope you'll consider liking and subscribing, because it helps more
people find the show and look. You can like and subscribe even if you only liked and didn't love
it, but if you hated it, you can skip the review. Or who am I kidding? I'll take one from you too.
Speaker 1 43:13
Let's talk about the money, or the lack thereof. Research rabbit hole behind the book cover.
Let's get we're asking the question. Book cover. Let's get weird asking the questions that
you've always feared.