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In this episode of the Wealthy Woman Lawyer® podcast, I welcome Andrea Sager, Founder and CEO of The Legalpreneur, a legal tech startup that focuses on offering affordable legal services to businesses of all sizes.
What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team and systems, mastering money issues, and more; then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth-generating law firm? That’s what we do each week on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. Hosted by Davina Frederick, founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer –– every episode is an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve (and will pay you on time), and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. The goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund, and still have time to enjoy, the lifestyle of your dreams.
Unknown: Hi, everyone, and
welcome back to the wealthy
woman lawyer Podcast. I'm super
excited about our guests today.
Of course, I'm super excited
always want to have guests on
because it's so fun. But this
particular guest is somebody
I've been wanting to interview
for a really long time, because
I've been following her work
since day one. And that's Andrea
Sager. Andrea is the CEO and
founder of legal printer. So if
you're a lawyer in at least in
my circle, I know you've heard
about legal printer. It's a
legal tech startup that focuses
on providing affordable legal
services to businesses of all
sizes. While working at a
corporate firm, Andrea noticed a
gap in the legal industry, no
one was catering to really the
small innovative startup brands
that were dominating her social
media feeds. And as a serial
entrepreneur, she knew firsthand
the importance of building a
business with a solid legal
foundation. However, she also
knew that many new businesses
simply do not have the funds to
hire lawyers and have their own
lawyer, that realization led to
the development of legal
printer. And because legal
services should be accessible to
everyone, she wanted to create
something that would make that
possible. In addition to running
her company, Andrea is a mom of
two in Houston. And she's
passionate about all things
health, wellness, poker and
business. And we're going to
jump in and talk about all of
that. So Andrea, welcome,
welcome. Thank you. Thanks for
having me. I'm excited about
this. Yay. So why don't you
start out by telling me you will
tell me when you started your
journey as a lawyer? Did you
always know you wanted to be a
lawyer? Or was this something
that, you know, later in life,
you said, you know, I think I'll
go to law school and become a
lawyer. Yeah, so I didn't always
know that I wanted to be a
lawyer. I just grew up knowing I
want to make a lot of money. And
then in college, I just thought,
oh, I want to be a lawyer make a
lot of money. And not knowing
that, really being the business
owner is what makes you the
money. But growing up, I didn't
know any lawyers or
entrepreneurs, my parents are
retired from the post office.
And so they had, I mean, they
had no guidance for me, they
just always told me, and I
believed them when they said,
You can legitimately do anything
you want, and always, you know,
encouraged me to go to college
and just do bigger things. And
so that's what I did. And that's
what I tried to do. And when I
was in college actually was in
the army, and I was supposed to
be active duty. And because of
that I did so I did ROTC, I
commissioned as an officer. And
I call I got what they call an
educational delay to go to law
school. But I was actually
supposed to be an active duty
officer. However, my who is now
my ex husband, he ended up being
active duty. So they allowed me
to like not basically, long
story short, didn't have to
serve an active duty. And
luckily, I got the big firm job
out of law school. And so I'm
thinking I'm set for life, I,
you know, got the big firm job.
I was like, I'm gonna be married
to my job, this is gonna be
great. I'm never gonna have to
think about money again. And
little did I know, that was not
the case. I remember. I remember
starting at the big firm, the
first week I was there. And it
just hit me all of a sudden, I
mean, I did my summer
internship. But that first week,
I so vividly remember sitting
there in my office, and watching
all of these old white men and
three piece suits walking down
the hall, getting ready for
retirement, and I was like, Oh,
my gosh, they've been here since
they were my age. And that
moment, I was like, Oh, my gosh,
I cannot be sitting at this desk
for the next 40 years of my
life. And so from literally the
first week, I was like, How do I
get out of here, but we had our
son, who is now five, he was
eight months old when I started.
My ex husband was started
staying home with our son at
that time. So I was the only one
making money. And I had another
small business that I sold as
soon as I started at that firm,
and really what it really just
came about organically a lot of
those business owners that I met
from my other business, it was a
clothing boutique, they would
reach out to me like hey, I need
help with this. I need help with
this. Can you help me file a
trademark, and I'm thinking the
firm's gonna love me because I'm
a first year associate, I'm
bringing in business. And I was
like, this will be my place in
the firm. I'm just a rainmaker
and most of the time the clients
couldn't afford the rates but
finally I had somebody that
said, Andrea, I don't care how
much it is. I just want to work
with you and I need to get a
trademark done as soon as
possible. And I'm like, great.
Like we can do this and I'm I
was excited and
When I had a partner tell me he
was like we, he told me this to
my face. We do not want small
businesses, they're not quality
clients. And in that moment, it
hit me. And I think a lot of us
have these defining moments in
life when we realize, hey, I'm
meant to be on a different path.
And that was it. For me, it hit
me, I said, I have to get out of
here. Like I'm from that moment
forward, I was planning my exit,
because I saw this consistent
flow of small businesses that
needed some help. And they
didn't have anybody to go to,
they didn't know who to go to. A
lot of them would go to, you
know, whoever their dad sent
them, like their dad's lawyer,
for whatever reason, they didn't
understand, I can't tell you. So
anyways, I started.
I started my firm, I think, a
month and a half after that
incident.
I launched my firm, and I'm not
going to say was always,
definitely not always smooth
sailing. But luckily that night,
I had I that night that I
remember posting in a Facebook
group, I was like, Hey, I'm
finally out on my own. I have my
own law firm, I can help you
with, you know, trademarks,
copyrights, whatever you need.
And because I was still trying
to find my place, and I had my
first trademark client that
night, and and Andrew Sager law
was born.
That's a great story. That's a
great story, I want to touch on
the incident that you had,
because I find that really
interesting when I worked for I
worked for a large law firm. At
the time, I was not a lawyer, I
was the marketing manager for a
large law firm. And they, the
partners, you know, I had a lot
of access to the name partners,
because I was doing all the
marketing for everybody. And I
was on the Marketing Committee.
And I remember, one of the name
partners said to me, we do not
want, we don't care about
business development from
associates, because we want them
in here working. And we're going
to be like in the back, keep in
the back room, throw in a meet,
and they're just supposed to
just grind out. And they did
want new associates to get
started on business development
until they were seasoned and
older, because they said they
are not going to bring in the
type of clients that we want.
Just what you said. Right? The
very, and that is that's typical
of big, big law. But that leaves
for those of us who are
entrepreneurs like you and I
are, we know that leaves a big
gap. Because there are a lot of
entrepreneurs out there who are
small potatoes and their mom and
pops and they may never get to
be huge. But that doesn't mean
that they don't have a lot of
legal needs. They probably have
more legal needs. Oh,
absolutely. Right. Absolutely.
So how long was it before you
decided that you needed to even
be more dialed in and efficient
in sort of serving this
population?
Yeah, so because I had a small
business before I kind of knew
the marketing game. And I knew
from the outset, okay, I want to
grow my audience, I want to get
in front of more people. And I
knew when I first launched, I
was like, Okay, I think I know,
this is what they're going to
need. And at the beginning, what
I thought that was was a huge
push on trademarks, and
copyrights, which was later
refined to mainly just
trademarks. And so I kind of
lead with what I thought, and
then I listened to the clients
and what they were needing. And
soon enough 80% of our revenue
was coming from trademark
matters. And what happened then
was, those clients would come
back and ask for more help with
contracts or Entity Filings. And
so I from there, I kind of
refined our core or what I call
our core offerings. And then
what I realized very quickly was
these, just like you said, they
need more help the small
business owners, they need more
education, because they they
don't know what they need. A lot
of small business owners know
they need legal help, but they
don't know exactly what they
need. And they don't know why
they need it. Because a small
business owner, they're not
going to know what to look for a
lot. I can't tell you how many
times clients asked me like,
hey, is this infringement? Or is
this okay to do? And so really,
it's a matter of educating the
entrepreneurs, small business
owners. And so very quickly, I
came up with the philosophy for
us is that hey, we educate
everything for free. Like we
will teach you everything you
need to know. And then when it
comes to how to do it or doing
it for you, that's when we're
going to make our money. Because
I remember
I think I learned this from
roommates at he's the author of
I Will Teach You To Be Rich. And
I remember reading his first the
first edition of his book back
in 2010. And so I've been a
longtime follower of his and he
always used to teach lead with
like, give like, teach
everything for free because
That's how you gain the trust of
your clients. So I have always
done that. And I attribute that
a lot of that to our success.
Because clients don't know what
they need. And instead of them
wanting to, they don't want to
work with an attorney that's
like, hey, hire me for a
trademark it so they hear from
those attorneys. And then they
hear from us, like, Hey, this is
what a trademark is. This is how
a trademark protects your
business. And this is how a
trademark can actually make you
money. Like, oh, I want that.
Right. Right, right. Absolutely.
I have I remember when I started
my virtual firm in 2011, I had
had a firm before that. And then
I sold out and it started when I
was I decided, well, I'm going
to do, I'm going to focus just
on business, small businesses.
And I was doing estate planning
still. And I was going to this
networking meeting with a lot of
small businesses there. And we
had this hot seat where people
would get up, you know, when
they talked about what they did,
every week, I was getting them
telling me what I did. And then
one day I was on the hot seat.
And I said, you know, I I said I
am. You know, I don't remember
exactly how I said it. But it
was like, I'm a business lawyer.
So I help you with writing
contracts and doing things like
that to protect you. So you
don't wind up in litigation. I
did not do litigation at the
time, nor did I have an interest
in it. And one of the people
said to me, so what I hear from
you is that you want money now,
you want my money now, and then
you're not going to be there for
me when things go wrong. And I
thought about just the lack of
like understanding I wasn't
communicating
the value of what I was
providing. And they were so they
had their own their own stories
that they were telling
themselves so that it goes back
to, if you're not telling the
right story, then they're going
to fill in the gaps with
whatever their history is and
bring it to the table. So what
you're doing is you're really
weaving a story and telling a
story around through your
education around what it is it's
necessary, if you want to own
and operate a small business,
because now more than ever,
people are starting businesses,
they're reading all these
articles about how great it is
to have your own business. So
you have a whole lot of people
who have no idea what they're
doing, and can get in to a legal
quagmire very quickly.
And so the education is in place
for them to go. Absolutely.
Yeah, the education has been
huge for us. And so now we have
a pretty decent following on
tick tock, and that's just
solely from education. And it's
just learning. It's and we
haven't, I mean, I definitely
have not always nailed down the
education. I remember, really
what came when this came about
was I think it may have been my
first year, I was I created a
course, about trademarks and
copyrights. And I, of course, I
have these huge plans like I'm
going to, because at that point,
I mean, everybody was talking
about, you know, launching a
course and making six figures
from this launch. And so I had
like all these big plans. And I
had somebody helping me create a
it was like a VA and after I
mean, we sold a few, but it was
definitely nothing. What I
wanted, and we kind of had a
break down meeting to you know,
break down the numbers. And you
know, the messaging and she's
like, Andrew, I think part of
the messaging is people don't
know why they need it. Like,
clearly, you know what you're
talking about when it comes to
trademarks and copyrights. But
there's a disconnect, because
people don't understand why they
need it. She's like, I know why
because I you know, I'm in here,
I'm creating this. I'm deeper
into it than they are. But
there's a messaging disconnect.
And and from that moment
forward, I was like, yeah, like
they're not educated to the
point to where they know what
they need and why they need it.
And so we've I've just broken
from then on, I've just kind of
broken it down what I call our
core three for small businesses,
and just educate, educate,
educate. And then because we've
educated them, they trust us,
and now they use us for whatever
they need. Yeah, wonderful. So
you are I remember a post that
you made at one point it was a
blog you wrote or something
where you hit you were very
close to half million dollars,
like in one year. I don't know
if you did that year one with
legal printer, or what so tell
me about that film fill in the
gaps for me. Yeah, so I launched
my firm. It was like the end of
April early May 2018. And I
launched it then but we very
slow year. Wasn't really all in
at that point. We moved across
the country. I studied for the
Texas bar exam, and actually
forgot to turn in my essays so
it did not get scored.
So that happened that summer.
And then after I took the bar
exam
Um, I
started really picking it up and
I started pushing, you know,
pushing for a lot of podcasts.
And so that first like from
April, May, and 2018 on, I think
I brought in that year 60 to
70,000. But my first full year
of business, I brought in
$430,000. And I, I always so
that's a huge number. I like
looking back now. I'm like,
that's crazy. And I remember
that is crazy. Yes. And I
remember at the time, my goal
was actually 500,000. And so
there was part of me that was
like, I didn't hit my goal. But
looking back, I realized this, I
think a year ago, I've never
actually hit a financial goal of
mine.
Which I think is kind of cool,
because I just actually set
these outlandish goals. And then
I just come short of them. So
it's still like, holy shit, like
I just made all this money.
Yeah, I said, I said, do the
big, audacious goal, do a
stretch goal, like not so
ridiculous, that you're like,
oh, we'll never achieve that.
But enough of a stretch, that if
you fall short, if you were to
set the goal that's first in
your head, and you achieve that,
you'd be okay, that was great.
But if you stretch goal, and
then you go above that original
goal that's in your head, even
if you don't meet your stretch
goal, you've made a lot more
money. So you're not leaving
money on the table, by setting
yourself a stretch goal. So you
actually feel better. Because
even if you don't achieve the
goal, you have made more than
you would have from your first
inclination, which is that
reasonable, you know, the
reality goal that we're gonna
set. Right. So that's, that's so
wonderful. What do you think,
was the key to you? So you had
your law firm? Did you ever she
started out practicing kind of
one on one, and then you decided
we need to go with this sort of
model where we were providing
products, we're actually giving
bundles and products and, and,
and courses and things like
that. So it's, it's a lot more
education, but also service,
right? At what point did you
decide
to the legal printer model was
the one the one you wanted to
do? Yeah, so that came about
when
we launched it right after COVID
hit and right before COVID hit.
I was thinking about this model.
And the event. So this was 2020.
And I was wanting to go all in
with legal printer then and sell
my firm because I mean, ever
since I think, yeah, I think it
was 2020. I mean, I've had
people trying to buy my firm.
And I so many times I've come
close, and it just never went
through.
And each time I was just like,
I'm just not ready. I'm just not
ready. And finally, I'm actually
in the middle of closing the
deal right now to actually sell
it. And I am going through with
that because it it actually is
time to sell your actual law
firm. Andrea Sager law and so
yes, not the governor, not the
league, correct? Okay, correct.
So,
at this point, what I was
realizing, so we had a really
good hold on the education
component. We're just constant
inbound leads. And I always told
people like, Hey, we're very
middle of the road, we're not
the cheapest, we're definitely
not the most expensive, very
middle of the road. And I was
very happy with where our prices
were. But even then, I saw
clients
not being able to afford it, but
absolutely needing it. And
really, what, when it came about
the first product was contract
templates. And what had happened
a number of times was clients
would come to us and like, Hey,
I'm launching a course, I need a
course contract. And so I would
take them through my process of
drafting the contract for them.
And they literally had no idea
what they needed. So they just
ended up using my template. And
in my head, I'm like, Well, this
is great for me, because I'm
obviously making more money than
just selling them a template.
But I know there's more people
out there that need these
templates. So after seeing that
happen a number of times, I
decided, Okay, it's time to
start a separate company,
selling these contract
templates, and selling and of
course, at the time, I was like,
Okay, we're gonna start with a
template, and we're gonna, like,
do all these other things. And I
didn't think it was going to
take a number of years, but it
did, which divine timing. So
So at launch the conch it was
the contract vault, we launched
that and then slowly started
building that from there and we
had our it's our legal printer
membership is our signature
product that gives clients all
access to an attorney, and that
was launched.
That was actually launched in
the law firm 2019.
And we just now put that in the
legal printer company.
A year ago.
Basically, at the end of 2021,
early 2022, we transition that
we launched the app and
everything, but really seeing
how more clients needed the
resources, because they still
couldn't afford our our rates.
That's really when legal printer
came about I Right.
And
for legal printer, you have kind
of a bigger vision with that as
well. So getting selling the law
firm is part of allowing you to
sort of focus on this bigger
vision for legal printers. So
why don't you give us an idea of
kind of what your bigger vision
is? I say that I know you have a
live event. And you have a book.
I want to hear all about like
the yes, we have very, very big
dreams for a legal printer. So
it was actually last year. So
meanwhile, I
September 2020, I decided to
step away from my marriage, it
was not fulfilling basically, we
were in two different books. And
I didn't realize at the time,
how, like, I knew I was kind of
being held back. But I didn't
realize to what extent and so
stepped away from that I didn't
realize, like even though I was
the one walking away, I didn't
realize how crazy things would
be for the next year. So So
did a lot of healing work a lot
of just figuring out, you know,
who am I what do I want. And
mind you, at this point, I was
making a million dollars in the
law firm a year, working maybe
20 hours a week. And things were
easy, things were great. But I
was I was no longer motivated by
the law firm. And I'm in a
Business Mastermind and the last
meetup last year and 2021. I
almost didn't go I had told it
to my business mentor Chris
harder. I had already told him I
was like, Hey, I'm not gonna go,
I just have too much going on.
And he was like, okay, he's
like, I really think you should
be here. It's gonna be really,
really beneficial for what
you're doing. And at the time,
legal printing was still was
just like our templates. It we
had a trademark course that we
launched, it wasn't what it is
now. And so I so I wasn't going
to go to this meetup. And
literally, within two days, my
best friend who's my COO, she,
she kind of her dad passed away.
And then my other best friend,
literally the next day, he
called me and told me he found
out his son had cancer. And so I
literally, I was just in a
matter of like, 48 hours. I was
like, What is going on? I need
to get away. And because there
was nothing I could do for
either of my friends like they
were having to deal with this
stuff on their own. And I was
like, I need a trip. And I was
like, Oh, I have a trip books.
Let me just go to the mastermind
meetup. And I went, and you can
ask people that were there. They
can tell you like my
transformation throughout the
week, I show up and I'm like,
Look, I'm here. And because at
this point with the law firm, I
was just like, I'm motivated. i
But it's, you know, obviously
it's good money. But I just
don't know what's next for me.
But I you know, I just at that
point, I was feeling like I was
done with the law firm. So I go
to this mastermind meetup. And
it was basically a perfectly
curated week to realize, Wow,
this is what I meant to go all
in with, because I remember
Chris was talking about, he was
like, a lot of you are actually
sitting on something great. And
you're holding yourself back,
you're selling yourself short.
And so he, the week was built on
talking, having a lot of
investors come in actually
talking about building a
business to sell. And so he
actually made us do a shark tank
pitch competition. And I got
groups and like, certain people
pitched in, my group had picked
me to pitch and I was like, Holy
shit, like I've been sitting on
it the entire time. Like it is
now time to go all in with legal
printer. And so I saw the vision
for it back when I launched it,
but then, you know, I decided to
go through a divorce instead.
But now it's finally coming to
the forefront. And what was
really beautiful was I had done
so much healing the whole year
before that. And I realized the
reason I was no longer motivated
with the law firm. i Are you
familiar with the Enneagram?
Yes. So I'm an Enneagram. Three
High Achiever like always
achieving, and healing like all
the childhood trauma and
everything I realized, like
everything I had achieved up to
that point was to gain the love
of others. And including my law
firm, I was building and
building and building to try and
gain a love from my ex husband
that I was never going to get.
And so once I reconciled that I
just realized like, this is why
I'm no longer motivated with the
law firm. And I actually can go
all in with legal printer and
build this and achieve what I
want to because I want to not
because I'm trying to achieve
anybody
else's love. It's because I want
to. And because I can. And so
year ago, we decided to go all
in with legal printer. And now
we have a goal to sell for a
billion dollars the thing. So in
five to 10 years not happening
tomorrow, but
eventually we're gonna sell for
at least a billion dollars. And
so we're taking, obviously the
legal printer membership, which
is our signature product, we're
building another version, a
smaller version of it. And now
what we're creating our big
project for the end of 2022.
Early 23 is an attorney
certification program to certify
legal printer attorneys to teach
them a how to serve clients the
way we've found success and
serving them be how to truly run
a business because we've learned
a lot of attorneys actually
don't know how to run a
business. And we're handing them
clients. So we're getting the
clients for them. And we're
handing them the clients that
they can now serve. So it's
going to be a two way,
essentially a marketplace.
And we're also going to be
creating legal printer payments,
which is going to be our own
payment processor, we're our big
thing is going to be
guaranteeing against chargeback
protection. And so a lot of
clients that we see
it's not chargebacks, honestly
are not that big of a deal. But
it is a huge fear in the minds
of clients. And so if we found
like, hey, if we can just take
this fear from them, and
guarantee like, hey, even if you
get this chargeback, if you can
prove, you know all the things
that the credit card people ask
to prove, and they still deny
you. And you're actually using
our contract templates, you're
doing all the things that we're
teaching you and telling you
then no matter what you're going
to be guaranteed against that
chargeback.
Well, that's powerful. Because I
know that's a huge fear in the
coaching. In the coaching
community in the coaching world,
you've served somebody I've
heard of, you know, I had a
colleague who delivered all year
long and then had somebody
charge back and didn't tell her
so that was a huge chunk.
Imagine an annual private
coaching experience so brutal. I
want to go back a little bit, I
know, I know you're selling the
law firm. So you kind of left
that behind. But before we move
away from it, I want I would
love it if you would share
because I know a lot of our
audience wants to hear they
heard that little part of Yeah,
we got it to a million. And, and
this is all happening really
fast that people don't know if
people realize that. But like,
those of us who are in the
business world who've been doing
this for a long time. I think a
lot of people through the
pandemic have been experiencing
things really fast,
certainly in the online space,
but in your law firm, I'd love
to know, I'd love for you to
share with the audience, how you
think you were able to scale to
a million dollars so quickly, in
terms of getting the clients
like what marketing initiatives
did you have?
So
one of the big things, I think
was actually marketing, I think
a lot of attorneys think like,
oh, if I hang my shingle,
they're gonna come but no,
you're I actually have a market.
And so I went into my law firm
with a mindset of, hey, I'm a
business first. Not like, I'm
not trying to be the best
attorney, I'm trying to be the
best business owner. And not
that I'm not trying to be a good
attorney. But there's a very,
very, very big difference there
between trying to be the best
attorney because it actually
doesn't matter if you are the
best attorney in the world if
you don't have clients. And so I
always went with the mindset
like, Hey, I am going to put
forth the effort to have as many
clients as I can. And I will
figure out the law stuff as I go
along. And that's what I did I
so my first big thing was really
pitching podcast, and really
getting in big with those I like
I like to call them business
influencers, but people with an
audience. And so my big goal
was, hey, I want to build my
audience, I want to build my
email list. And that's what that
was really our big push to get a
lot of clients and it worked.
I don't want to say like, Hey,
my legal skills weren't up to
snuff. There was a new
a new study or not study but a
new ranking published, which a
lot of the like trademark
attorney rankings are like, hey,
top law firm for applications
filed, but there was a new one
published that actually took all
the data into consideration. And
it was like as far as
applications filed, versus
registered, you know, successful
responses to Office actions, and
I never ever cared about those
lists. And I I've never applied
for any of them. But this
One, they actually analyzed all
the data and out of 50,000
trademark attorneys, I was
actually number 27. And I was
like, wow, like I, really,
that's you, thank you. And I
think it. I know, it's really
easy to get lacks and repetitive
in our practices, especially if
you only are doing estate
planning, you're only doing
trademarks. And so you think you
know the answer. But very early
on, I just saw a lot of these
small business owners like they
just needed somebody to give
them a chance, they just needed
somebody to work with them. So
there was a lot of matters that
I took on that a lot of other
attorneys wouldn't take on, I
had so many people out there,
like, Hey, I talked to this
attorney, and they said it
wasn't worth it. And I looked,
I'm like, Hey, like, it may
actually take some extra work,
but I think we can get this
approved. So if you're gonna, if
you can trust in me, that, hey,
this may take some extra time.
Like, I think this is going to
work. And so luckily, I had a
number of clients that, you
know, believed in me and trusted
me. And we went a lot of things
that we were actually surprised
that we won.
And some days, you know, some
days, we did lose things, or
like, we definitely should not
have lost that. But I think it's
really going above and beyond
for the client, because at the
end of the day, we're all human,
and we want to be seen and
heard. And so actually taking
that empathy and those, you
know,
human intelligence skills to
your clients, like that goes a
long way. And so first, like,
our the big thing was getting an
audience once we had the the
audience and the clients, it was
really treating them as human
beings and seeing them and
hearing them, and then just
referral after referral. I think
that's a huge piece that a lot
of law firm owners miss,
certainly I see it in some of
the discussions on social media
of sort of complaining about the
clients and, you know, coming on
and telling some clients story.
And, and I do think there is a
piece here that there's an
opportunity missed.
Of above and beyond service,
because especially now we live
in such a world where it's hard
to find good service, everywhere
you go, you're frustrated,
because you're dealing with
people who don't want to be
there don't want to be in their
job. And so whether it's an
airline or a restaurant, or
whatever, a doctor, where you
can't get an appointment for a
year, you know, there's a lot of
this kind of lack of service, I
do think people are missing the
opportunity of providing that
boutique, high end service that
that service where we're really
paying attention to what the
clients are saying, and
responding to them and kind. I
recently had an experience
myself where I had a negative
experience with somebody that
I've just hired to do something,
and I paid them a lot of money.
And I emailed like three people,
including the lady who owns the
firm who sold me on the service.
And I've heard back from this
the lowest person on the totem
pole, and that the owner of the
company has yet to come back to
me. So of course, that's in the
back of my mind. And I'm going
hmm, you know, what I what
review? Will I leave for this
person? What? Yeah, well, I tell
other people, because I'm, you
know, I had somebody, email me
who said, Hey, I had this
experience, it wasn't great. So
I think there are missed
opportunities for not really
treating people as human beings
on the other side, whose money
is valuable to them. Right,
right. And that's this owners
have that finite amount of
money, and that's valuable to
them, you know? Yeah. And that's
honestly one of the things that
we're going to be teaching in
the legal printer attorney
certification, because what I
realize is going through my own
healing journey, like these
actually aren't things that were
taught. And it's literally
sometimes just as simple as
fully hear, like being present,
when hearing out the client and
having them like give this even
if you know, like, it doesn't
matter, them giving me these
details, like clients literally
just want to be heard and feel
seen. And so it's just maybe
sometimes just as small as
actually hearing them out and
saying, Wow, like, I'm so sorry,
you had to go through that.
Let's see how we can get this
handled. I can't tell you how
many and so many times that I've
actually dropped the ball on
something, and the next phone
call with the client, like of
course, I'm dreading it because
I'm like, waiting on them to
like, chew me out. But you just
still take the empathy and, you
know, take the, you know, have
the bigger, I can't think of
what I'm trying to say take the
high road and say, Look, I
totally dropped the ball here.
And I'm so sorry about that. And
this is how I'm going to make up
for it. Like some attorneys in
that situation there. They just
ignore it. They just like try to
sweep it under the rug, and you
just have to take ownership of
everything. And that really just
goes a long way and that's it
sounds so simple and
It's, I've talked to some people
that are like you really going
to teach that in the
certification? I'm like, yeah,
like, unfortunately, I was never
taught a lot of this stuff. Like
I actually had to learn this. So
I know if I had to learn this,
other people have to learn this
as well. Yeah, yeah, we have
those discussions a lot in the
league and the wealthy woman,
lawyer League, where we're, you
know, they're learning
everybody's learning business
skills, and how to grow their
business. And we have a lot of
those kinds of discussions of
how to handle you know,
situations. And it's so
important that customer service
piece, that client service piece
isn't on met opportunity.
Because you know, if somebody
feels like you're their
attorney, that that's going to
be a lifetime loyalty that you
can get and the referrals that
come from that.
Before we run out of time, I
want to cover some other things,
though. And one of them is you
just came off of a live event.
Why don't you tell us a little
bit about the live event? And
then tell us about your book
that's coming out? I think in
January, so launching in
January? Yes, yes. So last year,
I had two things that were on my
heart. And I, it was so crazy,
like I never ever thought about
doing these things. But that was
number one hosting a live event.
And number two, writing a book.
So the event it first it was
called legal printer live. And
the idea behind it was, hey, we
are a company founded on legal
education, legal services. And
most people view that as scary
and intimidating. But in order
to break down that barrier,
we're going to host a
conference. And that lets people
see like, hey, like, yes, we
mean business. But we also like
to have fun, and we want to help
you grow your business. Because
if you're not in business, then
we don't have clients. So very
quickly, I learned, okay, people
think this is only for
attorneys. And it's for anybody
it was, you know, we had
attorneys there we had any type
of business owner there. And
that so we renamed it to dream
bigger. And that was because I
realized Chris harder helped me
realize, like, Hey, I'm actually
not dreaming big enough. And so
to dream bigger, that stuck
really well.
And so we hosted that last week.
Oh, it was incredible. I can't
tell you how many people
literally came up to me and even
since have deemed me and they're
like, that event has changed my
life. And I'm like, oh, yeah, so
you went from attending an event
that changed your life to
hosting an event that changed
your life within the span of a
year? Yes. And I honestly wasn't
expecting people to be like,
Wow, this changed my life. I
just wanted people to walk away
and be like, Oh, my business is
my business. And I am going to
be better because of this. But
people were just so moved. And I
think a lot of it is just
realizing there is so much more
for us. And what I kept talking
about was like, Hey, if you're
feeling this, like you're
feeling this hate, there's
something more to life for me
like this can't be it. Like this
event is for you. And so many
people were like, yes, like
that's exactly where I am. And
it just makes my heart so happy
because so many people walked
away and they're like, this 100%
changed my life. How many
attendees did you have? So we
haven't speakers? Yeah, so we
had about 70 in the room. And we
want to grow this to hopefully
be an annual conference and just
continue growing and breaking
down the barrier of having legal
be scary. Yeah, yeah. That's
wonderful. That's wonderful.
You're, and that's a good,
that's a good size event for
your first event like that.
That's I mean, people who've
ever thrown events, realize what
it takes to get butts in chairs,
and get people to commit not
easy to travel, somebody had
traveled to it.
Before we talk about your book,
I do want to go back and touch
on one thing with your that you
are licensed in Texas and where
else, I'm actually only licensed
in Ohio. And so listen to this
one. So this always threw people
for a wrench. So I lived in
Kentucky. I went to school in
Kentucky, but I worked in
Cincinnati, so I got licensed in
Ohio. And then I moved to Texas,
which is why I did the federal
trademarks. And so for a while I
did have an attorney that worked
for me that was licensed in
Texas because obviously a lot of
people thought I was licensed
there.
But I remember the first call to
like my getting my first
malpractice insurance. He was
like wait, so you have a
Kentucky phone number, your
license in Ohio, but now you
live in Texas, and I was like
malpractice carriers like this
sketch. Yeah, he was like, I
just want to make sure I have
this right. And I was like, Yes,
I was like I promise I'm only
practicing federal matters. And
so and honestly that's why we're
creating
The legal printer attorney
certification kind of like that
network, because a lot of small
business attorneys, a lot of
those solo attorneys,
I want to create the network
that essentially the big firms
have, who are licensed in Ohio.
But because they have an office
in New York, they felt like they
they do whatever the client
needs in New York, even if
they've never met the the
attorney trying to expand your
network of resort, right? Hey, I
want to ask you, because I
because the contracts is what
comes to my mind is how are you
you have people from all over?
Because the internet's
everywhere? Billing these
contracts? And so how do you
kind of ensure that that works
for them where they live? So for
our contract templates, we tell
them, hey, this is industry best
practices. You want to have a
local attorney in your state or
country review them? We so the
legal printer right now we serve
clients in the US, Canada,
Europe, and Mexico.
And always expanding, and with.
So even for the International,
we've had a number of
international clients. So like,
hey, will this work in my
country? And I tell them, hey,
it's a great starting point. But
have a local attorney review it
for you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I
wanted to be clear on that. So
people listening, the attorneys
listening, sort of understand
that. So before we wrap up, tell
us you you do have I've
mentioned your book a couple of
times, what's in your book?
What's it going to be about?
Give us the scoop? on it? Yeah.
So like I said, I was last year,
I was feeling very cold to write
a book. There's, I mean, I don't
we did our research, I don't
believe there's any book out
there like it. It's called legal
printer, the business owners
guide to legally protecting your
business. There's no really
legal guides or books out there.
For small business owners.
They're all just textbooks. And
nobody wants to read that. So
it's really teaching, putting
all of our free education in one
place. Because our if any, I
tell people, I'm like, Hey, if
you want to learn about this,
like go listen to the podcast,
go to tick tock Instagram, go to
our blog, like it's all out
there for free. But now I'm
like, Hey, I think we need to
write a book to compile it
concisely in one place, and
really weave in stories,
examples from clients, and
really easy to understand, like
how tos. And so that's exactly
what the book is, it's
legitimately a guide to legally
protecting your small business.
And so that's going to be
launching in January. Super
excited about that. One thing
I'm actually really excited
about as well, is we've been
doing a lot of partnerships with
Nationwide Insurance. And so
that Yeah, yeah, so I'm hoping
they're, we're talking right now
about possibly having them
sponsor,
like the book launch party,
having more resources, you know,
back and forth between them to
help
small business owners get
insurance and getting those that
are already insured, you know,
legal questions answered. So
hoping to take that partnership
with the book to the next level.
Congratulations on being an
author. I understand the amount
of work that goes into that my
first book took me years to get,
because I had so many pieces and
parts and stops and starts. And
then finally, it took somebody
just to say, Okay, you just need
to sit, volunteer and get the
thing done. By the time I wrote
the first book, I was already on
to the next to next and next.
And so to me, it was, you know,
not not where I was at that
time. But it's always wonderful
to provide those levels of
education. So there's the
somebody who has $20 to spend,
can get answers, if they will
take the time to sit and read
the book, right? And then, and
then those who want to go a
little deeper, or learn in a
different way, then you have
resources available for that,
and so and so forth, you know,
so I think that I think that is
a wonderful way to sort of serve
people is to offer a lot of
different options. And so you're
between your book, your podcast,
all those things, plus your
courses and your templates, and,
you know, and you're speaking
the conference, all those
things, it sounds like that
you're doing a lot of that you
do have the vision, so we're
going to be cheering on cheering
you on and watching, it seems to
me that the legal printer has
been around for longer than you
said. So when you started
talking about dates, I'm like,
Oh my gosh, you know, it hasn't
really you've done that in a
very short period of time. So
definitely something you should
be very proud of. And I know you
are. Thanks so much for being
here and sharing with us today.
I hate that we're about out of
time, but tell us how people can
connect with you if they want to
where they can look out for
updates.
It's get on your mailing list
and all that stuff. Yeah. So
right now, if you want to
preorder the book, it's the
legal printer.com/legal printer
book. And if you have any
questions, just want to connect.
I love talking to attorneys that
have questions because what I've
learned is so many attorneys,
they also need help. You may be
great at your craft, but you may
not be great at running a
business and so I love just
helping out when I can. So my
email is Andrea at Andrea
sager.com. And you can follow
along on Instagram at Andrea
Sager law. Great, thank you so
much, Andrea. I appreciate it.
Thank you