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As the CEO of Kit, Nathan Barry has a front row seat to what’s working in the most successful creator businesses.
On The Nathan Barry Show, he interviews top creators and dives into the inner workings of their businesses in his live coaching sessions.
You get unique insight into how creator businesses work and what you can do to increase results in your own business.
One of the things Nathan is passionate about is helping you create leverage.
Creator Flywheels let you create many copies of yourself so you don’t get bogged down with the little things in your business. Flywheels will help you reach a place where you can focus on revenue instead of busywork.
Tune in weekly for new episodes with ideas and tips for growing your business. You’ll hear discussions around building an audience, earning a living as a creator, and Nathan’s insights on scaling a software company to $100M.
Learn how to get more results with less effort and:
Grow faster over time.
Work less hard over time.
Make more money over time.
Sean Sweeney: [00:00:00] I started the company and built over 700 apartment units with construction value of 200 million.
Nathan Barry: Sean Sweeney is a real estate developer turned content creator.
Sean Sweeney: I know how to go build a 45 million project. I do not know how to launch a course.
Nathan Barry: We talk all about taking the knowledge in his head and getting it out there to the people who need it most.
Okay, well let's dive in on the board. Let's do it. So one thing that I want you to keep in mind through the whole launch is you need to be continually answering the question, why should someone buy this course now? You need urgency of some form. From watching your content, I think we can do a better job of converting from social to the email list.
Okay. The way that I would do it is
Sean Sweeney: Yep, that's a good point.
Nathan Barry: I think there's a couple different tiers that we're looking at. I'm thinking about getting rid of package B. Is there really a difference between 3, 000 and 5, 000?
Sean Sweeney: This is awesome. This is so great. I didn't know that I would like being a creator.
There's a whole bunch of things that you said that I didn't know.
Nathan Barry: So Sean, you took an interesting path [00:01:00] to the creator world that I'm in. And you did that through becoming a real estate developer. But even before that, you took an interesting path to being a real estate developer. So let's start there.
What were you up to before you got into the world of real estate?
Sean Sweeney: Well, I have a, yeah, a very untraditional real estate developer background. I had one of those, I'm not an overly religious person, but I had one of those experiences where in a 30 day period in 2016, my mom who had been sick, passed away. We had our second kid, my roommate from college died.
And my lifelong team, the Chicago Cubs, won the World Series. And this all happened in 30 days, right? Four things that, like, are once in a lifetime.
Nathan Barry: Right.
Sean Sweeney: And I, I, I remember going outside one morning and just sitting there and it kind of, like, clicking in my head of, like, my mom was 75, I was 38 at this point.
I was like, what, what am I waiting for? I'm halfway there, right? What do I have to lose? And I basically went inside and decided I'm opening up my own shop. And I didn't, thankfully I wasn't 25, so I didn't start the [00:02:00] next day. I had to like manage it and figure out, you know, but six, eight months later, I was off and I had a theory that, you know, there's, there's something missing in development.
There's like soul and heart. You know, I, I started the company in 2017. And, you know, through 2023, basically, when things started to slow down, uh, I was a partner in nine projects built over 700 apartment units, you know, with construction value of, you know, a little over 200
Nathan Barry: million. That's amazing. So thinking about a couple of things here first, as we talk more about the content creator side of it, it's actually a really small group of people that.
talks about things and puts them, them out there in the world. And so if you're doing good work, you can stand out online really pretty easily.
Sean Sweeney: There's
Nathan Barry: something that I'm, I'm calling the 99 one rule. So basically that 90 percent of people just consume content, right? We're watching Netflix, we're reading, you know, whatever's going on in X that we find interesting, all of that.[00:03:00]
There's 9 percent of people that actually do something. Right. And so that's maybe, maybe if I love outdoors content. You know, then that, that 9 percent is the ones that say, you know what, I'm actually going to go to Glacier and go on the hike that I saw on YouTube, right. Or, you know, if you were watching, uh, how to build a tiny house on HGTV, maybe the 9 percent are the ones that say, you know what, I'm actually going to go build that tiny house that we've always talked about.
But then it's actually just that 1 percent that then says, not only am I going to consume the content and learn about it. And then, you know, go out and do the thing in real life. Mm-Hmm. . And then you get down to the very last 1% that says I'm gonna talk about it. Yeah. And that's a huge difference. I mean, you, even in your world, you probably know a lot of real estate developers.
Oh, a ton.
Sean Sweeney: Yeah.
Nathan Barry: Who are in the 9% Mm-Hmm. Absolutely. They're actively doing the thing. But even then they wouldn't, wouldn't talk about it.
Sean Sweeney: Right.
Nathan Barry: And so on one hand, getting to that 1%, you know, puts you in totally rarefied air. I think power said at once it's like [00:04:00] building trust at scale, right? Yeah. The amount of leverage that comes from that.
Absolutely. Amazing. Okay. So now we're going from here is really, looking at what does it take? What does it look like to scale this creator business? So I'd love to hear two things. First, uh, what's your audience look like today? And then second, you know, as we dive in and, and get into things on the whiteboard and like, what's next in your business, you know, what you're looking to tackle.
Sean Sweeney: Sure. So the audience today is, um, I've about 86, 000 on Twitter. Uh, started a newsletter last fall, uh, on kit and we've got about 8, 200 readers right now, which isn't as big as, as some folks for sure. But I feel like, you know, and we've talked about this, it's, it's 8, 200 people who are really invested in what I'm doing and really want to learn about real estate development and all that.
So Twitter is 86, 000. I just started on LinkedIn. Um, and that's one of the things I've been doing in the past year, right? Is my real estate business was very busy until 2023. The market is, you know, rates of change. Everything's kind of [00:05:00] changed. Everyone's going through this transition right now. Now I'm starting to go on other platforms.
000. I'm going to start a video series on Instagram. So I have a total audience. I like, I just kind of say like of a hundred thousand basically, uh, on the various platforms kind of combined. Okay.
Nathan Barry: So what, what clarity could we get you in the next 30 minutes or so on the course? Well, what
Sean Sweeney: I'd love to talk about is, you know, as, as we've kind of gone through, you know, even though I've been doing this for a little while now, I still feel new to it.
I'm, you know, really interested in getting some guidance on launch strategy and just, you know, My goal here is to, to create a sustainable business also. 'cause what I've realized is when the real estate market is strong and I'm building, I'm developing buildings, I can't be a full-time real estate developer and a full-time content creator.
There has to be, or, or a nonprofit in one of those two ways. Yeah. Right there. They both have to stand on their own two legs. And so what I'm trying to do is, [00:06:00] is I wanna launch this course, I want to get this information out there. But then I'd also love to figure out a way to make this trader business self sustaining as a supplement or as a, you know, riding shotgun with my real estate business.
Nathan Barry: Yeah,
Sean Sweeney: sounds good. Okay, well let's dive in on the money. Let's do
Nathan Barry: it. Would you like gold or silver? I'll take gold. Got it. Sounds good. First, let me just write down some audience numbers that you talked about. So on X, so these are the main ones. And so you said 8, 100? Uh, 8, 200
Sean Sweeney: now.
Nathan Barry: 8, 200. All right. Okay. And you've got the other platforms as well, but this is, that
Sean Sweeney: represents the bulk of the
Nathan Barry: audience.
Okay. So now when we're talking about the course, maybe let's just get into, uh, pricing and positioning on the course and start there. So the way that I think about the course is like, what, what are the alternatives or what are you, what's the value that you're keeping, uh, someone. If someone goes through your course, what's the size of deal or project that they might be applying that on?
Is this like a [00:07:00] 500, 000 project or a. 25 million project or what? So
Sean Sweeney: it can, I mean, it, it can range, but the way I think about it and one of the things in the course that we talk about is we suggest starting with a smaller project. So like a 12 unit building, you know, the minimum you're building that for now is probably two to 3 million.
So that's a minimum. You know, if you're doing something, even a step up from that, like let's say you're going to develop a 40 unit building. You're looking at minimum 10, 000, 000. So these are not small undertakings, no matter how small you start, if that makes sense. Right? I mean, my last project, which was 204 units, was 45, 000, 000.
Nathan Barry: So I'm putting this up here just because we need context that the course lives in. Right. Right. And so if I'm going in, um, And, you know, on one of these projects, any set of advice that you give me could, even if we're saving 5 percent here, or, you know, the tiny, like, there's a huge amount of value to what you're [00:08:00] delivering.
Yeah. And so whenever we're talking about pricing a course, the context matters so much, whereas what people normally do is they say, what price should a course be? Right. And they're like, I don't know. I took this one cooking class and that was 30 bucks. And I did these continuing education credits for this other thing and that was 500.
Right. Right. Right. Somewhere in there. Yep. And you have to put it in this context
Sean Sweeney: and there's some additional just to add a little bit of additional context You know, I also Um as my profile grew people were reaching out to me for consulting Yep, right and I have people that ask me for half an hour an hour of my time on the phone Just to help them work through something.
It's a thousand dollars for an hour. Yep, and I had somebody see my content Asked me to actually co develop slash consult on an entire project from beginning to end for them a 32 unit project in Minneapolis that lasted a couple of years. They paid me 250, 000 just to advise. And to your point about saving 5 percent here and there, I helped them with one, you know, we, I helped them, they were going to do underground [00:09:00] parking.
And I looked at the whole situation and realized you don't need to. And I saved them, you know, 1. 2 million. By not doing underground parking, you know, they like to joke, they're like, we would have paid you five times, you know, we could have paid you five times that and it would have even out, but that's the, you know, it's not that it's not about me being smart or any of that stuff.
It's these are really important decisions and they're very, there's a lot of money behind each one of these decisions. So it's a knowing this process is.
Nathan Barry: So there's a lot of value delivered. Okay. So let's talk about pricing. What do you have in mind right now for the pricing?
Sean Sweeney: I think there's a couple of different tiers that we're, we're looking at.
We haven't, you know, nothing's final. This is, and so I'd love your input, but I think there's a top tier of 5, 000. Okay. Which would get you all the, you know, obviously the entire course, all the videos, it would get you, we're, we're doing hand, you know, there's a lot, a lot of documents that go with this [00:10:00] process to purchase agreements, letters of intent, all kinds of things like that.
Proforma is right. All the stuff to help you learn. We're going to, we would put that along with that. And then. With the included in that price to some level of follow up with me, probably in some group format. We again, we haven't finalized it yet, but it would be documents plus some sort of group format to get questions answered.
Because the way I view the course is if you do it and if you really can understand it and digest it, I'm going to get you 80 to 90 percent of the way there. I mean, I really We've talked I was hesitant to do this because I was like, I don't want to be guru You know, I don't want to be seen in in that light.
But as I got into it, I'm like I'm giving you the two hundred and fifty thousand dollar consulting gig here for These prices basically.
Nathan Barry: Yeah, and the nice thing is you know if I were to hire you for a Uh consulting gig right and you and I are talking on the phone and you make a really good point Now I have to remember it and tell it to my team [00:11:00] and on from there.
Here I could be like, Hey, watch video four. I mean, and you can go watch
Sean Sweeney: the thing 10 times if you have to. Right. That's the first year. So
Nathan Barry: we're here at 5, 000 for the first year. Um, it's, it's the course, the group component of it and the follow up and then, you know, all the docs, deal structure, all that. Uh, what's the
Sean Sweeney: package?
I think the second one is, you know, discounted from there. Certainly. Maybe it's, and again, this is just like 29. 95 maybe. And that's all of the videos. I think, I think that's the whole set of videos, but I don't think it's the attachments. And maybe it's like one follow up with me. I don't know. We haven't, again, we're not,
Nathan Barry: okay.
And so then what's C
Sean Sweeney: and C is probably, you know, and I don't know for sure if there's a C because part of me is hesitant, like what less can I give you than just all the videos, but maybe there's like, if we're, if we're really strategic about it, you know, there's 45, 48, maybe there's 10 or 12 of what might be.
You [00:12:00] know, you, you, you want to watch all 48, but if you watch these 15 or 12, like that would get you 50 percent of the way there. Right. Some entry. Yeah. That's a good way to put it.
Nathan Barry: And what price point are you thinking here? Thousand thousand. Yeah. I was
Sean Sweeney: going to say a thousand. Okay.
Nathan Barry: So these three packages, there's a bunch of things that I like about it.
And you and I have talked before. So you, everyone knows how much I love tiered pricing. All right. And so you're already thinking in those ways. Um, one thing that I, I love here is that you're bringing in all of the, the documents and the done for you type of things, right? And so it's like, Hey, here's the hands on stuff.
Like, uh, for my book authority, when it came out, one of the things that I put in there in the higher package that ended up being the most popular was this 90 day plan. for your, your book is coming out on this day, let's work backwards 90 days. And here's what you should do every single week. I like that.
And people [00:13:00] were like, Oh, I have to have that. And I'm like, well, that's only one PDF. And they're like, but it tells me exactly what to do and when. Yep. All right. So that kind of thing is really, really valuable. Now, as I think about this overall, I think it needs really good branding and positioning as to why each thing Yes.
Isn't it? Have you thought any of the naming of these tiers? Of what they would be? A, B, and C. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, no. I mean, I haven't. No. So are That's a great point. What brought it up for me is this, like, this entry package. Mm hmm. Is there Um, maybe there's key stages in the development process. It's not like you randomly drew a line and said, these 12 videos are in the entry package and these, you know, 36 are not, um, there needs to be a story that we're telling around that.
Right. Is it the, like this package will tell you everything you need to know to see if your deal is even worth pursuing.
Sean Sweeney: Yeah,
Nathan Barry: that's [00:14:00] a good, yep. That's a good point. Um, so how, you know, it's the validation package. It's the. Uh, I mean, what is entitlements? What's that stage called? Yeah, I mean that's,
Sean Sweeney: I think that's the question for, for that this entry, uh, opportunity is, is it more of a feasibility?
Is it like fe fe this is, this is just to get you, like is it gives you, it gets you to kind of a go or no go place? Yes. Or is it more of an outline of the whole process, but it's not the whole thing. But I like, I as I'm saying that out loud. I like the idea. I think it's more valuable and helpful if it's more of a feasible, like if it just gets you to a point, because it's almost, I feel hesitant to put down like what it would be like a watered down version of the whole thing.
Yeah. Because then, I'm almost for sure creating holes for you in your knowledge, right? So what else is like, you take the, this is only the first 15%, but you understand that this is only the first 15%.
Nathan Barry: What I [00:15:00] would do is I would have, um, two things in here. One is the overview and this is, maybe it's a video that's in everything that's like here's 20 minutes, 10 minutes.
Here's the whole process so that now you can anchor, uh, the rest of this course. You know, now you know the steps that are involved. And then the next is like, you know, for your project, getting into the steps, um, of feasibility and, and all of that. So that's where you're breaking it down. So then you're not just only giving someone, you're giving them Like the first,
Sean Sweeney: right.
Nathan Barry: Cause there's also a version where if someone spends a thousand dollars, they have a piece of land, they're pursuing it. And their buddy's like, Hey, there's actually a lot more to this than you think. Why don't you go by the thousand dollar version of Sean's course and decide at the end of that is, do you even want to pursue that?
And so this could give you the right information. I like that [00:16:00] idea. Then the thing that I like about this is we have a really clear upsell path. Right. Because if you have a, uh, a green light, you know, on this, this is the stoplight version of it, right? Right, right. Do, we have a, a red light, green light aspect of this, and you can even include a checklist in here.
I'm going to include the project checklist to say, Hey, should you go further? Because you're about to put. Best case, 2, 000, 000 at risk, you know, and so this checklist is very clearly worth 1, 000, right? Um, and, but if, if it, if we end up in the green path, then it's like, Hey, do you know, then you should be upselling to this and there's a very clear paths for that.
Sean Sweeney: Yep. Oh, I like that. I like, I think that's a, that's a really interesting way to think about it and it would help, um, Yeah, it would definitely it's better than a watered down version of like we have 48 [00:17:00] videos, but you get 10 that are, you know, chosen on purpose, but created a holes for you for sure, right off the bat.
Yeah. That makes sense. Cause we, as you know, just in general, as developers, we're spending, you know, much more than a thousand dollars every time we start down this path. And there are times where, you know, we get hundreds of thousands. I mean, in some major markets, you're getting millions of dollars into something.
And you're still hitting a red light and pulling the plug. You know, so this is a good lesson in that, in that to some degree also.
Nathan Barry: Yes. I don't know where I'm going to throw this, but checklist. And so as I'm positioning this, you know, this feasibility package that I'm emphasizing the checklist, right. And so it's these, it's these videos and the checklist, that's what you're getting for a thousand dollars.
Um, I'm thinking about getting rid of package B.
Sean Sweeney: And
Nathan Barry: the reason is. Because I'm, I'm wondering what its purpose is. Sure. If I'm spending, if, if price [00:18:00] is my concern, um, is there really a difference between 3, 000 and 5, 000? Obviously, on one hand, there's 2, 000,
Sean Sweeney: but on the other, you know, there's a bigger difference between this and this, there's a, that's a, that's a, yeah.
And this, this came about before this really existed. And maybe the
Nathan Barry: price point on this should be 2, 000 or it's 1, 500 or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but what I'm wondering about is in pricing, especially tiered pricing. Every single thing should have a job that it's supposed to do. And I don't know what this package's job is.
And so we want people to go with this because the outcome that they're going to get, like, we don't really want them to go through the videos and not have the docs or the additional support or that sort of thing. Right.
Sean Sweeney: I mean, this is the best value. I mean, this is like, if you want to do this, that's, yeah.
Nathan Barry: But I give it to Shane. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. So I [00:19:00] think what I would do is get rid of this package. Okay. I mean, I don't know. We'll just exit it out now. Oh, let's just cross it out. Yeah. Hey, that's all right. Um, and then now I need 5, 000 to not seem expensive.
Sean Sweeney: Mm hmm.
Nathan Barry: Right? Because we don't want someone coming in and saying, oh, 5, 000 is, is really, really expensive.
Yep. You want them saying, this is really, really cheap.
Sean Sweeney: Yep. Right.
Nathan Barry: And so when I revisit the. These packages. What I'm thinking about is 250, 000 makes 5, 000 seem really, really cheap. And when 250, 000 is not a made up number. Oh, it's a real, real number. Yeah. Yep. Uh, and so then as we position it, maybe it's something like, you know, if we're, if we're doing pricing tiers here, then we've got, um, Two packages here.
So the one that I want you to buy, this is going, I don't know what, [00:20:00] I'm going to just say A and C for now, right? 5, 000 and then this one, I'm going to say a thousand, but we might raise it. Okay. All right. Thanks. Then we have our consulting and maybe you say 250K, maybe you say starting at a hundred K. Yeah,
Sean Sweeney: it depends on the, it's, it's very project specific, but that was used as kind of a benchmark of like, look, that was a 32 unit project.
That wasn't a 204 unit project.
Nathan Barry: Yeah. And so this is one part and maybe it lives up above the sales page or something, but we've got a few things going on here when we lay it out like this. Uh, First, the, the 250, 000 project price anchors everything. Yep. And we might start with like, you know, uh, the testimonial above it.
We paid, um, 250, 000 to Sean on this, you know, 32 unit project. Uh, we could have paid him five times as much [00:21:00] and still You know, it's still got our money out of it. Right. And then as we come down here, so now our price anchor, the course is only 5, 000. I love that someone only wants to get started. They can drop down to another price point.
Um, and then if they're thinking like, Oh, is it actually 5, 000? Is that value there? Then it's like, Hey, hire me for consulting. So this is probably the hundred K, but I would say a hundred K plus. Uh, whatever, I'm not going to change that. Well, because
Sean Sweeney: that's, it's, you bring up an interesting point as I'm thinking about this.
Um, because the thing that comes up as we're kind of going through this is like, there's going to be People, and this is a comment, but it's going to turn into a question. You know, there's people who are going to do this, right. Who are going to do the course, who are going to buy it, who are going to get through it, and they're going to be like, that was awesome.
I did the, you know, the four Q and A's with you online. I got a couple of my additional questions answered, but [00:22:00] I need more help, you know? And I, I, I think given the audience that I have attracted, I don't think 100, 000, you know what I mean? This was a home building company who like could, could afford to do that.
Could basically give me part of the deal for that. I don't think the average, my average follower, you know, I think there's a step up in consulting from this for them. I don't think they can get to this or a hundred, but I have anticipated as they finish the course, there's going to be some desire from some for like, you know, I need more from you.
Nathan Barry: Right. That makes sense. So, in this case, the offer, the job of this is just a price entry. Just a price entry. Okay. The 500. That makes sense. So, let's, you know, let's put it at 100. And, you know, we're 100K plus. Starting at 100K. Yeah. And you've got the quote at the top, you know, and then you have another quote from, you know, you know, you have [00:23:00] other things.
Basically, the purpose of testimonials on a sales page is to reinforce a statement that you make, right? And then you have a testimonial that backs it up of, you know, I say this, but now here's this other person who've actually spent the
Sean Sweeney: money
Nathan Barry: saying it, saying it in a different way. Um, so I think this is set up really well.
Um, you've simplified your offering. It's now just down to two of them. Uh, and there's a clear story behind it. Yeah. Because one is, hey, this is all the value that I have, like, this is what you need to run a successful project end to end, and this is one, if you just need to know, should I green light this project or not?
Sean Sweeney: Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Barry: So, the story behind the price tiers really matters. Mm hmm. Okay. That's pricing. That makes sense, yeah. Um, what else should we dive into next? Interesting. I'll put a,
Sean Sweeney: actually.
Nathan Barry: We're
Sean Sweeney: getting, B's gone. We've eliminated, we've eliminated B. Um, so, Well, so I think that's, I mean, as far as the launch goes, I [00:24:00] mean, this was, you know, this was really the, the unknown for me of like, what's the best way to put this out there.
I'm glad that you didn't push back on the 5, 000. I mean, I feel pretty strongly about the value. Yeah. And again, the, the, you know, benchmarking it. News
Nathan Barry: market. We've set the context for it. We've anchored it again. Like it makes sense. Now, the thing is. The question we get into is how many of these people who can pay 5, 000 are in the 8, 200 person email list, right?
And uh, you know, what segmenting have you done? That sort of thing. The lead up is going to be very, very important.
Sean Sweeney: And that's, that's the other piece, um, that we need to kind of nail down is just the best way to build this. So, you know, I, I'm thinking about it. And I, I don't remember where I came up with the 30 day, but like kind of a 30 day launch.
I don't, it feels [00:25:00] longer. Yeah, it feels too long to go much longer than that to me in this scenario. What are you
Nathan Barry: thinking on the 30
Sean Sweeney: day launch? I mean, I think it's, it's, you know, hitting the eight, hitting the list of 8, 200 people, I mean, hitting all of the audience, but at, to your point, I think the large majority of the buyers will come from that.
Yeah, I mean there will be some from Twitter who aren't on the you know list and whatever that will buy it But the large majority will come from that. I think so. I think it's You know, I know like the last let's say it's four weeks, right? I know week four. It's probably what daily emails or You know daily and it that week one you get two or three week two You're getting three or four week three.
You're getting maybe five and week For you're getting a bunch, but what do they say? Exactly. You know, what, what is the point I'm sure you're going to say, well, what's the point behind each email, right? Like, what are we,
Nathan Barry: we'll get there, but we need an overall theme on some of this. Okay. So let's talk urgency for a second.[00:26:00]
Why should someone buy this course now versus next month or next
Sean Sweeney: year?
Nathan Barry: Well,
Sean Sweeney: it may or may not exist next month or next year. I mean, it will, but part of this, right. And we, we touched on this a little earlier is. Is this a sustainable business, right? And, and maybe this doesn't play into this, but it's just where my head is, is like, we're doing this now.
We may never do this again. I mean, I think we will. I'm hopeful that we will. And I think there's a whole thing here, but part of the urgency is, you know, this may be your chance to buy this course. We may not have it open forever. Um, the other piece is right now, this is the best time to learn this stuff.
The market is slow. This is when. I mean, yeah, I had kind of like going back to This, this window gave me the opportunity to actually create this, right? I've been thinking about this for a couple of years. I've been getting these DMs for a while, but it wasn't until things slowed up that I actually [00:27:00] had an opportunity and had the time to dedicate to putting it towards this.
Nathan Barry: Okay. So first you're talking about an open and closed launch. So there is a fixed window and so the course is not available to purchase. That's a form of urgency. Second is when it comes to the market. What you're basically saying is because of interest rates and everything else, now is the time when you should be learning and studying so that you're ready when these deals start to pencil again.
Part
Sean Sweeney: of what I talk about in the course, part of what I teach is how do you find the right architect? How do you find the right general contractor? How do you find the right team players and all these various things? Part of the reason why now is good is those people aren't busy. They'll return your call.
They might even go have coffee with you. Right. Right. Two and a half years ago. Good luck, right? You go into the voicemail and you never hear from him again. So there's a, there's a top. This is a key point right now [00:28:00] because the other people that you need, this is a team sport. The other people that you need on your team.
You might actually be
Nathan Barry: able to get their attention right now. So one thing that I want you to keep in mind through the whole launch is you need to be continually answering the question, why now? Why now? Okay. And so Can I write that right now? Yeah, do
Sean Sweeney: it. That's a great thing to remember.
Nathan Barry: And so Right, and if you notice, under urgency, we've touched on this in two different ways.
One is you will not be able to buy this course after X date. Right. And then the other, there's probably a bunch more under, like, that we want to get into now. Yeah. Under is copy, positioning, all that, from why now. Um, okay, so now if we think about the 30 day launch plan, Um, we need a cart open and a cart close.
Yep. In here. Um, do you have any thoughts on, How long to run that? My gut is like seven days a week. Yeah. I've
Sean Sweeney: listened to this podcast. Yeah. I [00:29:00] mean, a week sounds kind of the right amount of time.
Nathan Barry: Okay.
Sean Sweeney: Um, you know, and we, we've talked about. We think we'll be ready to launch by late October, early November.
We run into the presidential election and I know your podcast and some others I've heard of, like, I don't remember where it was, but they talked about, don't bother trying to launch something between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Cause everyone's just paying attention to their family content and all that kind of stuff.
So our goal right now, and, and yeah, this may change obviously given editing and everything else, but like we were shooting for a launch around mid November. No, 15th, you know, I have, I don't know what the days on the calendar are, but somewhere mid November be open for a week. Someone did bring up the point to me about, you know, some people that are going to move into development or want to kind of take this path are working in finance and other things right now.
And they do get bonused at the end of the year. And somebody made the point like that's a really easy way if you get a 20, 000 and I don't know what people's [00:30:00] bonuses are, you know, whatever, but if you get, it's a lot easier to buy a 5, 000 course when you just got a 20, 000 bonus and you're like, well, I'll have a 15, 000 bonus.
And now I got John's course also, which I hadn't thought about, but I thought was actually a really interesting point also. Um, and I don't, you know, again, I'm, I'm new to this. I don't have a lot of strategy. Knowledge behind how long to keep it open, whether to just keep it open forever. And like, anytime you come across my content and you can go to my website and buy my course, or
Nathan Barry: at least for now, we're going to close it because, um, you need urgency of some form.
So
Sean Sweeney: plus that gets you, that gets you these group calls too. Like those don't go, those are not right. Those are going to be. I think we're going to launch in November, give people two months to go through the course, some, you know, some amount of time to go through the course. And maybe those are once a week in February for four weeks and that's it.
Or something.
Nathan Barry: Yeah. I would do some as people are going through the course. Go sooner. Okay. As well. Cause then that's a reminder to go through it and all that. But, but yeah, I would [00:31:00] make sure to have that in there. Okay. So if we break this down, uh, we'll just say the weeks.
Sean Sweeney: I like that. I'm just taking random notes.
That's
Nathan Barry: what it's there for. Okay. So week four is launch week. Yep. Um, one very quick thing that we're going to do is after week four, we're going to do a downsell. But that's like to a sub, subset of the list.
Sean Sweeney: Is that like you get it at a different rate or a different?
Nathan Barry: All we're, all we're going to do is we're going to take the people who were interested in the course, who clicked links, uh, all of that expressed interest and didn't buy.
And we're just going to email them this feasibility entry level offer. Got it. We might add in something slightly different or make some small tweak. But it's just like, Hey, I saw you're really interested. Here's the offer. Okay. Um, that can get you in. If you buy this in this new window, maybe you throw in a call dedicated to feasibility and how to green light a project.
Right. Okay. Um, so maybe it's like with [00:32:00] call bonus and you end up at going back and adding that to everybody who. Bought that package, bought that. Sure, sure. Okay. So it's not like, oh, 'cause you waited to buy it turned out better. , you know. Okay. So week one, as we're working backwards. Mm-Hmm. I think is all about the audience.
Okay. Because if we look the number of people from watching your content, I think we can do a better job of converting from social. to the email list. Okay. So that's what week one is all about.
Sean Sweeney: Okay. The more, more just direct asks to go
Nathan Barry: to the email list. Do you have a lead magnet of any kind? We
Sean Sweeney: have a, the one thing we've come up with is like our five, like we have, we call it the five day course where it's just like the five of all the newsletters we've written.
It's like the five most impactful ones that you can read. So if you sign up on that link, you get those first, as opposed to having to go through the whole kind of cadence. And then. We can always create something new, certainly, too.
Nathan Barry: Yeah. So I would [00:33:00] play, I would play with that. I would do, I'm looking for a resource.
I would find something out of the course that's a document, a checklist, something like that. And I would, that you already created and I would pluck that out and give it away for free.
Sean Sweeney: Okay.
Nathan Barry: Uh, in trade for the email list. So I'd probably try. Okay. So, three different things between now and the course, um, the course launch, or really between now and the conclusion of that first week, where we're trying to get as many people on this list as possible.
Right? Can we go from 8, 200 to 12, 000, 15, 000, right? That'd be a pretty big, big bump. The other thing to think about is, can you do any guest content on other people's newsletters? ,
Sean Sweeney: right?
Nathan Barry: Is this the sort of thing? Mm-Hmm. . Um, I'm gonna write on here. Yep. Do it. Guest content and write. Is there a, can you reach out to, [00:34:00] uh, Nick Hub or Chris Power or some of these other people and say, Hey, I'd love to write an essay for your newsletter.
Of the five lessons I've learned, you know, developing $200 million in real estate, you know,
Sean Sweeney: that's a, that's a great idea. One of the things that happened on Twitter the other day was. Moses Kagan made a comment about more people should become developers. I saw it and I quickly jumped in and was like, Hey, by the way, I have this newsletter.
And then Moses, thankfully saw that reach reposted it. Like, Hey, my friend, Sean has this great newsletter. And we had a bang. We had a huge day that day. You know, we had 200 and some subscribers that day. Just from somebody else saying you should read it too. Yeah. So you
Nathan Barry: deliberately reach out and say, okay, who else has my audience, you know, and say, Hey, how can I do that?
Cause that's how subscribers find content is, you know, creators talking about other creators. Then what we're doing is weeks two and three leading up to launch is [00:35:00] all about.
The way that I would do it is week two is the tease, week three is the decision. And so here we're really focused on the email list. Now you're still posting to social because these people, the email list, they follow you on social as well. And you can annoy people with too many emails, but you can like get the same amount of touch points.
If it's like, Oh, I saw the email and, and I saw that. Yep. Okay. And I saw the other social posts. The thing, the other thing that I love is the same way that you did this like work in public idea with your buildings, you know, and just say, Hey, here's, here's what I made. Do the same thing with the course.
Okay. So make sure to share the behind the scenes, especially on social. Here's what I'm up to. Um, all of that.
Sean Sweeney: Does that start, are you saying start that now or start that in this sequence?
Nathan Barry: I would do a little bit of it now to make sure people know it's coming. [00:36:00] Um, and then, Uh, and then do it a lot around this time.
So the thing that most people do is they tend to tease right before the launch, here's what's coming and all of that, and they try to get you to make the decision during the launch. One thing, we talked about this on a previous episode. Yeah. But that I really want people to do is I want them to, I wanna separate those two moments of being able to make a decision about whether or not you wanna buy and actually being able to buy.
So then I want you to decide, I want this. Oh, sure.
Sean Sweeney: And then, so you're ready. So the second this opens, you've already decided.
Nathan Barry: You've already decided, you know, you know, so I might even do something in the decision. Yep. I might tell people like, hit reply. And let me know if I want to buy or if you want to buy or something like that.
Another decision that you can make in this [00:37:00] is based on your price point, you can close this with phone calls. Now, I don't know if you want to, but, um, it is worth your time to get on 10 minute calls with people. To help them understand if it's worth your time. So somewhere in here, right, if you're teasing the content, why it's useful, what's in it, the lessons learned, you know, here's where you're like the 2 million mistake that I made.
So you don't have to write those kinds of things. And you're telling these stories and you're having a ton of value. Then as you get into the decision, you're saying like, here's why you should buy it. Here's the offering. Here's the packages, all of those details. And then you say, Hey, here's If you're unsure if this is right for you, just hit reply and like, let me know.
And I'll give you the candid advice on it. Cause the last thing I want to do is take, take money from someone who it's not a good fit. Right. Cause you're like, I'm going to be [00:38:00] developing real estate for the next 40 years. I don't need, you know, I don't need your 5, 000 if it's
Sean Sweeney: not, you know, you bring up a really good point.
Right. That's super important to me for this. is this is going to be really, really impactful and helpful for the right people. But this is not something that I want that you should buy. I mean, there's no value in it if you don't want to develop real estate, right? Ignore the. Yeah, no, I mean, but that's exactly right.
But you're saying don't buy if.
Nathan Barry: Absolutely. And you're getting very, very clear. That's one of the best ways to build trust is if you genuinely say, Hey. Okay. Listen, I understand. Yeah. No, you shouldn't buy this. No, absolutely. You should listen to me on, I did a podcast, you know, that has some good direction.
You know, you're too early or, um, right. So if you break that down, no,
Sean Sweeney: I think that's, I love that because that's, that's exactly right is, you know, I, and I think that plays into the pricing and [00:39:00] it plays into the whole thing is, you know, of those 8, 200 people or if it's 10, 000 or whatever it ends up being, you know.
How many of those people is it truly a good fit for right now? Right. You know, I mean, hopefully, hopefully enough that it may, you know, is impactful for them. But yeah, I definitely, I love this idea. I definitely want to give people the, you know, I'd love to hear their story and be able to say, you know what, you know, you gotta read some books.
I mean, you're, you're still at real estate one on one because the other part about development that, you know, isn't always out there is like, It's kind of real estate on hard mode. I mean, it really, it's so much easier to go by, to go buy an existing 12 unit, 40 unit, even 204 units, the same process to buy those deals and it's less risk and it's less time and it can be done in 90 days.
I mean, you could say to me today, I want to buy a hundred unit apartment building. And within six months, I could probably help you do it. And [00:40:00] if you said, I want to build a hundred unit apartment building, you know, if we get it done in three years or four years, we've done well. I mean, it's a totally different beast.
So I love that idea because I absolutely don't want people to buy it if it's not going to be impactful.
Nathan Barry: Yep. And all of that builds a lot more credibility. So, uh, the thing that I was getting at is with this group of people who are unsure for, um, I would have them. Yeah. I would get on a call. Yeah. With, with a bunch of them.
Just say, Hey, hit reply. Uh, we're like, if they hit reply, here's why, uh, you know, here's my question, all of that. Yep. Then you can reply with those answers and say, Hey, if you still have questions in your reply, drop your phone number. Yeah. And then when you're out for a walk, just call, just call them and say, you know, give that five, 10 minute, a minute call.
Yeah.
Sean Sweeney: I love that. And
Nathan Barry: then I would get those commitments before launch time comes. So figure out the way in an email and a couple of different ones. Hey, if you're in, if you're going to buy when this launches, hit reply and tell [00:41:00] me. Because then you're getting people to solidify that commitment, um, before the launch comes.
And then you can, you know, organize them as a label in Gmail. You can follow up. You can do all of that. Cause it's totally worth 20 minutes of follow up for a 5, 000 student. Absolutely. Let me see if there's anything else in here. This is awesome. This is so great. The other thing is, um, I was gonna say, we're doing, our selected form of urgency is an open and closed launch.
There's other ways that you could do it. Price increase, bonus, that kind of thing. I probably, I would entertain the idea of in this seven day window for the launch, you You, you play around with shortening it. I think day of the week matters. This is a business activity, you know, so I wouldn't close a launch outside of business hours for example.
Right. That makes sense. Yep. Um, [00:42:00] you know, we're not closing on Saturday at midnight. Right. Um,
Sean Sweeney: I mean, I even thought maybe it, it opened again, just not looking at the calendar, but maybe it opens on a Monday. And people have five days and then we keep it open over the weekend knowing most people aren't gonna be paying attention to it.
And they have that following Monday as maybe the last day to, yeah. Something, something like that. It gives it like, okay, you got one more chance here on that Last Monday might finds closing at five,
Nathan Barry: but you might find that's too long. Too long. Yeah. Um, that's true too. But you know, don't let it go belong beyond seven days.
Okay. I would have some sort of thing that you could offer, uh. That if they buy in like the first 48 hours, they get, and it might be a call that week where you're going to, you're like, I'm going to do two feasibility breakdowns live on the call this week. And anyone who buys before that call gets access to it.
And maybe. you know, you bring two example projects and you're like, here's ones that [00:43:00] I've broken. You know, you probably have a bunch of deals that you're like decided not to do because, you know, so you're like, Hey, here's what I saw the difference between this, this deal that I did. And so the one that didn't work and this other one that didn't work, here's the nuance of it.
And I'm going to break it down live on the call. Okay. Right. But that gives people a reason to buy early in the week and you're not relying on a single deadline. You have multiple deadlines. Uh, and then that lets you send another email, you know, say Monday you open, Wednesday is the close for that call.
It lets you send that Wednesday email and say, Hey, here's the last chance to get access to this call. Here's what we're going to be covering. Um, and this is the type of stuff that there's way more of it in the course. Um. I think that's good. There's more. This is great. Yeah. There's more we can get into.
Let's sell this thing. Yeah, exactly. Let's go. Let's, let's go. Let's sit down and recap a little bit of this. Yeah, absolutely. When you were making the trip out to Boise, all that, I'm just curious how you're [00:44:00] feeling about like the course launch, the plan for the, the creator side of the business then versus how you're feeling now.
Um, I'm
Sean Sweeney: feeling a lot better now. I think my, where, where I was, you know, a couple of days ago was in a good way. And this is different than I felt three, four months ago before creating the course, right? I had mentioned, I had some apprehension about, is this really going to provide value? Having created it now, having gone through it, having, you know, filmed all these videos, like I feel really good.
I'm my name, I will put my name on it. Like I'm not, I'm not worried about the content at all. This has been extremely helpful because this is like. Black holes may be a bit of a strong word, but like, this is the stuff that I, you know, I know how to go build a 45 million project. I do not know how to launch a course.
Right. Right. So having, like, just hearing all of this has been like, That's right. You can see all my little scribbles everywhere. Like I'm going to take a picture. I mean, this is [00:45:00] fantastic. This has been really, really helpful. Um, it's, there's a whole bunch of things that you said that I didn't know, you know, that that'll be really helpful to doing this because it's what I, what I want to do much more than make money or any of that, right.
Is like, I really feel like now I feel like I spent three years. Online showing what I do, you know, talking about myself and my projects and all that, and I feel really fortunate that it resonated with, with, with a subset of people, right? And a bunch of those people have then reached out to me for help.
And I finally have gotten to a place where I created something to help them. And now I just want to make sure that they get it right. I want to make sure that it's going to them and that they're getting it in a, in a way they can buy it. I love. Frankly, I love that we eliminated price to your B. I really do.
I think that was just me, you know, like I want there to be a cheaper option for people. Cause I don't want it to [00:46:00] be, you know, I don't want somebody to be like, God, if I only had another thousand bucks, I really want to buy this course. Right. But being able to have a big difference between five and, you know, one or 1500 is huge, I think.
So no, I, I, I'm, I'm excited about it and I, I'm grateful for you for, for taking the time to help me. Uh, think through it. Um, but I, I, I feel good. I feel good about it. I'm, I'm excited. And you know, you and I have talked about this a little bit and I don't know how we're doing time wise or whatever, but you know, I, I didn't know that I would like being a creator.
I mean, I, I didn't know that I would actually like the teaching piece of it. I actually always kind of thought I wouldn't, to be honest with you, but it's really in the last year, like. It's really made me feel good. And like, I'm actually really now I'm really providing value, right? I'm not just posting about my projects or talking about myself or, I mean, I, I post, I think a lot of helpful stuff on X for free that like guide you in the right direction, but [00:47:00] really now.
I actually kind of feel like a real creator, you know what I mean, like I always kind of was like, well, I kind of, you know, I post on Twitter, but, um, like I really feel good about it now.
Nathan Barry: One thing that I love about your work and where you're headed with all of this is the, like the leverage and impact that you can have on society as part of it, right?
Because something that you and I are both passionate about is. affordable housing and like people having a path into a great place to live that doesn't cost a fortune and We know that the single biggest way you can have an impact on that is by building Way more housing, right?
Sean Sweeney: Right. No, absolutely I mean developers get and some earn it but a lot get a really bad rap and honestly Developers are the solution.
Mm hmm, right? A lot of developers, you know, that, and that's why, like, I want people who care. I want to find those people who want to do this, who want to make an impact and don't know how and help
Nathan Barry: them. When I think that's the leverage through [00:48:00] the creator world is that you can say, Hey, here's how to do beautifully designed projects, you know, uh, at scale and, and not.
Like break the bank and like the deal is still pencil. And so, you know, you can build thousands of units in Minneapolis yourself, but this way you can scale that message and it is ultimately going to go out to tens of thousands. Yeah.
Sean Sweeney: Having, having the, I mean, even getting some of the emails, I had a guy on Twitter the other day, say, I just, you know, he tagged me and he said, I just started an eight unit building because I've been following your content.
And I was like, That's fricking awesome. Like, I can't believe I had an impact on that guy who I didn't even know who he was or like never saw his name before. And I was like, that's amazing. So yeah, I'm, I'm hopeful to be able to pass this course to, you know, use this. I mean, I feel like for whatever reason I got the microphone and.
I was, I was really hesitant at first about how to use it, but I really think that I can, I'm hopeful that there's like a, as you just said, like an [00:49:00] impactful way I can do it turns us into a real business that ultimately is something that's a huge net benefit for society and for the housing market and all of those things.
Nathan Barry: Yeah. Sounds good. All right. Well, where should people go if they want to sign up to the newsletter and follow you on X?
Sean Sweeney: Great. Well, X, uh, Sean D Sweeney, um, Is where to find me on X. The newsletter is the bright build. That's what we, what we named it. We sent it out to call it Sean Sweeney's newsletter. Uh, and it's on kit, but it's, uh, the bright build.
com is where you'd go to go to sign up for it. Sounds good. Well, thanks so much for coming on. Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, Nathan. It's been a pleasure.
Nathan Barry: If you enjoyed this episode, go to the YouTube channel, just search billion dollar creator and go ahead and subscribe. Make sure to like the video and drop a comment.
I'd love to hear what some of your favorite parts of the video were, and also who else we should have on the show.