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In this episode, Wendy Coulter of Hummingbird Creative Group dives into the essence of brand building with Hanna Jernigan, marketing strategist, and guest Benina from Dubai. They explore the Hummingbird Effect—how minor branding innovations can result in significant business impacts. Benina shares insights from his journey as CEO of High Value Author, emphasizing the critical role of customer experience and rapid communication in driving business success. Learn about the shift from marketing to customer experience, the impact of prompt customer callbacks, and the tools and strategies they use to retain and grow their client base. Tune in for actionable advice to enhance your business by focusing on what truly matters.
00:00 Introduction to Branding and Marketing
00:57 Meet the Team: Hannah Jernigan
01:56 Special Guest: Ben Cena from Dubai
03:15 Ben's Background and Business Insights
07:54 The Importance of Customer Experience
09:27 Implementing Weekly Client Calls
15:18 The Impact of Quick Client Communication
18:58 Optimizing the Customer Journey
20:59 The Importance of Immediate Follow-Up
21:33 Differences in Communication: US vs Europe
23:03 Leveraging Technology for Efficiency
25:17 High Level vs HubSpot: A Comparison
26:59 Measuring Success: The Impact of Quick Calls
31:09 Adapting Sales Strategies for Better Results
34:56 Advice for Business Owners
39:08 The Power of Data-Driven Decisions
40:03 Conclusion and Contact Information
Creators and Guests
Host
Guest
What is The Hummingbird Effect with Wendy Coulter?
Welcome to "The Hummingbird Effect," a podcast dedicated to uncovering the subtle yet powerful ways that small innovations can transform your business. Hosted by Wendy Coulter, CEO of Hummingbird Creative Group, this show delves into the stories and strategies behind successful brand building.
For over 25 years, Wendy has helped CEOs and business leaders redefine their brands through innovation and compelling narratives. In this podcast, she shares the insights and lessons learned from her extensive experience, exploring how a strong brand orientation can significantly increase the value of your business.
Each episode features engaging conversations with industry leaders, business advisors, and innovators who have harnessed the power of branding to make a substantial impact. Discover how focusing on core values, mission, and vision can drive your brand beyond mere marketing tactics, fostering a culture that resonates with your audience and enhances your business's reputation.
Inspired by the concept of the Hummingbird Effect—where small, adaptive changes lead to remarkable outcomes—this podcast aims to help you understand and implement the incremental innovations that can elevate your brand and business.
Join Wendy Coulter on "The Hummingbird Effect" and learn how to evolve your brand, attract more customers, and ultimately enhance the value of your business through strategic branding.
[00:00:00]
Wendy: [00:00:15] hi, I'm Lindsay Coulter, and I help CEOs and [00:00:30] business leaders. Unlike the hidden power of their brands for years, business owners.
And leaders have focused on marketing tactics. But what really matters is building a strong brand. Think of it like the Hummingbird effect. [00:00:45] Small innovations in branding and marketing can lead to surprisingly big results in other areas of the business, like increased valuation, company culture changes and marketing messages that resonate.
I'm excited to be on today with [00:01:00] Hannah Jernigan, my marketing. Um. Strategist at Hummingbird Creative Group. Hello Hannah. Hello, Wendy. So how are you doing today? I'm doing good. It's a beautiful day. How have you been? I'm good. I haven't spent any time with you today. We've been going in different [00:01:15] directions, so it is great to see you.
Yeah, back in studio for like the fourth time in a week. We are doing a lot of podcasts. We are. So, um, great to have you here. Um, anything bringing you joy today? A [00:01:30] lot of things always bring me joy. Um, I. The podcast, I guess as we really think about it, like we were looking at some of the numbers and just what we've succeeded in, and so that was really joyful to look at and recap.
[00:01:45] I'm really excited about how much we accomplished in 2024. Looking back has been, um, a lot of work and we're off the ground and I've interviewed some amazing people. Um, and that leads me to today's [00:02:00] guest, Benina. Who is joining us from Dubai, which I told him I was jealous and he told me that I should be.
So that is just great. Um, so now I'm even more jealous and, um, I've never been to [00:02:15] Dubai and I've seen pictures and I've heard wonderful things about how amazing the innovative architecture is there. Mm-hmm. And, um, just everything. It sounds like the weather's really good. Um, so how are you doing today, Ben?
Thanks for [00:02:30] joining us.
Ben Cena: I am always good. I'm, it's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. And Dubai is great. Dubai is great. I cannot stand the heat. I, I came, I came here two and a half months ago. It was crazy [00:02:45] hot. I dunno how, how much it's bad. Probably 110 degrees.
Wendy: Oh my goodness. Oh wow.
Ben Cena: So I, I couldn't leave my, my building, but now I can survive, so it's really pleasant now.
So I, I understand [00:03:00] your
Wendy: you say the weather is good. Yes, yes. It's feeling a little different to you than it was before. Huh?
Ben Cena: Oh, yeah. Now, now, now I'm free. I can go wherever I want.
Wendy: That's awesome. That's [00:03:15] awesome. Well, so I'd love for you to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your background. Then we'll delve into some questions, but tell us about yourself.
Ben Cena: Sure. So I am the CEO co-founder of High Value Auditor. Um, [00:03:30] we are helping authors and speakers around the world, build their authority for the last three years so far. We helped over 400. Authors so far, [00:03:45] so again, 2024 was really great as well. Same here. Just like you mentioned,
Wendy: Yeah, it's been a great year. Um, and 2025 is looking
Ben Cena: it is gonna be better. It's gonna be better. It must be better.[00:04:00]
Wendy: That's right. That's right. Um, so what was your background prior to the business?
Ben Cena: I, I wasn't self-publishing for a long time. Actually. This is where it all started for me. I. I was doing some self-publishing businesses. [00:04:15] I sold a few businesses, um, about five, six years ago. Before that, I was a personal trainer, was personal trainer for five years
Wendy: I just left a restaurant [00:04:30] and the guy who waited on me was a personal trainer, and he got to serve me some Lizzie.
Ben Cena: Is he an active personal trainer or just nighttime personal trainer?
Wendy: I think he is an [00:04:45] active personal trainer and weights tables at the restaurant. So we, we had a fun conversation. We
Ben Cena: that, that, that tells something probably right.
Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm sure he sees a lot of things, um, every day [00:05:00] as he is waiting those tables that make him cringe, so.
Ben Cena: May, may a May, maybe he, this is his marketing strategy. Who knows? Maybe he
Wendy: That's right. That's right. Um, so Ben, tell us a couple of fun facts about you, [00:05:15] other than the fact that you're in Dubai.
Ben Cena: Fun facts. I don't know what's fun. Probably it's gonna be weird because I'm, I'm really, I'm really a boring person. You, you, you mentioned the architecture and stuff like that. For me, [00:05:30] I don't really care, to be honest with you. For me, for me, it's all about people. I love people. I love having really interesting conversations.
And, and probably the fun fact is gonna be, but I, [00:05:45] a week ago I left my building. Properly for the first time since I came here three months ago, all the time I was in my, in this chair just zooming, doing Zoom calls with my team, with clients, stuff like that. So that's a [00:06:00] fun fact probably.
Wendy: Yes, that is a fun fact. Um, so I, I remember a day, not so many years ago when I stayed in my office a lot too, but I, I can't do that all day, every day, that Zoom [00:06:15] thing, I'm glad I've got a car to go drive around in and get out into. think
Ben Cena: There is, there is nowhere to go here. You know, you can go to a desert, you can go to mountains, but that's [00:06:30] it. That's pretty much, you know, dinners, you know, dinners, visiting different places. That's what you do. That's what, that's what people do here.
Wendy: Yeah. Okay. Right. [00:06:45] Networking's good. That gets you in front of a lot of people,
Ben Cena: yeah. Dubai is for only, for bad reason and it's, it's completely empty in, in summertime. Now is the busiest time there is, so if you want to come, now is the time.[00:07:00]
Wendy: Okay. Okay. Well, I'll keep that in mind. I think right now I'm headed towards a very busy time that doesn't
include
Ben Cena: say you, I mean maybe Hannah, maybe you, let's
Wendy: Yeah, [00:07:15] I'm sure she'd love for me to send her to Dubai.
Hanna: Right. I think in the office that is the location. I think like three or four of us were talking the other day and we all said it at the same time that that was like our top travel
Wendy: to Dubai,
Hanna: like wanted [00:07:30] to check that off our list.
We have two girls in the office that have traveled a lot and that's one place that they haven't gone. So it was a pretty cool thing to talk about and cool that you're there and to hear. Some of the stories as we were just all [00:07:45] talking about it.
Wendy: Yeah, that's
Ben Cena: Yeah, I'm not the best person to tell stories what to do in Dubai.
Wendy: Well, so I'm gonna jump into some questions. Ben, you know, you're fairly new in business and, um, a lot of things change in those early [00:08:00] years and, um, then your background and self-publishing prior to that. And so tell us about an instance where a seemingly small change in your marketing, your branding, or just in one area of your business.
[00:08:15] Impacted, um, another area of your business in a really significant way that was kind of unexpected for you.
Ben Cena: I don't think it was unexpected, but I managed to program myself. That customer experience is everything [00:08:30] for me. When I get my clients say that working with you guys is a blessing for me. That is everything I. Where I learned that if you focus on customer experience [00:08:45] more than anything else, this is when you win and you really have to understand which, what kind of business you are.
Are you in marketing business? Are you in customer experience business? And I learned this year, early this [00:09:00] year, but I am in customer experience business, not just in the results business. Some people mistake, make a mistake thinking that it's all about results. It's all about results now, it's about customer experience and communication actually [00:09:15] is what people enjoy the most.
So this is probably the biggest thing,
Wendy: Okay, so talk about that a little bit in context to what you're doing today.
Ben Cena: a very simple thing. What we [00:09:30] implemented was a weekly call with every single client that we do. Yeah, every single week we have a call at least 30 minutes with every single client. In turn, we didn't have a single conation throughout the whole year. And [00:09:45] we, our, we sell pretty high ticket services $20,000 plus.
Um, so probably this is, was the biggest achievement and, and daily quick [00:10:00] communication. Quick updates. Guess we are in a business where there are many moving parts. Something is done every single day for every single client. So informing the client, but this is done, this is done, this is done. [00:10:15] This was a great contributor for the experience as well.
So we know that something is happening, things are moving forward, and I think this is really fills that, that void of. Especially in the beginning when you, when you, [00:10:30] when you work with new clients, after we make a purchase, immediately we are thinking, well, what's the right decision? Should I go back? And even you attack that with these little things and then we don't question [00:10:45] that anymore.
Wendy: So Ben, was this a shift for you and your team? Like when you first. Started servicing clients, were you not quite figuring out that customer experience was where you were [00:11:00] gonna land?
Ben Cena: Yeah, exactly, exactly. We didn't have a structural way to do it. We, we, we, for example, if it for us, because we go for different phases, writing distribution, [00:11:15] marketing, leveraging, sometimes for a specific task, it takes like three, four weeks to complete and there is nothing to talk about in between, but.
This is where the tricky things happen. [00:11:30] So you have to actually talk about that. So this is what, where we made the switch, even though we filled those, those gaps where there is no necessary communication, but communication becomes necessary for them to know that [00:11:45] things are still moving, right? Because people are so used to not not understand that.
If something is not reporting, somebody is not reporting back to them that something is happening. They think that nothing is happening. And probably [00:12:00] this, we can blame the, the recent years, 21st century, whatever, and people are, in most cases, that's true. Most businesses, if you don't get, nobody informs you about it, usually nothing is happening actually.
So you have to [00:12:15] learn and tell them, okay, in a structured way. Keep them updated. Updated, updated. And that was a huge referral machine for us. It became a huge, um, as I said, [00:12:30] anti cancellation pro recurring customer machine as well. At the same time
Wendy: So tell me what led you to the realization that you needed to make that [00:12:45] shift?
Ben Cena: you. I like the saying we're a smart person learns from his mistakes or her mistakes, whatever, a really [00:13:00] wise person learns from successes. So I'm trying to see if, if I, sometimes I land on a wise side. Probably not, but maybe. And, and when you see something [00:13:15] people, you, you notice. One email, one WhatsApp message where a person is checking in, and then you notice in these moments and say, well, it's really about customer experience.
What if we do that every week? [00:13:30] What if we keep them posted before, even before we have an opportunity to ask a question? What about this? What's an update? Et cetera, et cetera. And we noticed that early on, and I'm probably, I'm glad I, that we did notice that. [00:13:45] And we, before something went down, before the client said, well, I dunno, maybe let's put a pause on that, or whatever.
So I think that was semi a [00:14:00] little wobbly relationship, maybe with one or two people that we said is, is everything good? Everything moving. And then when we caught, okay. It has to be a consistent, constant updates for [00:14:15] all everybody, every single person.
Wendy: Yeah, so we're, as a marketing agency, we're in a similar boat with that project management where some things are. So it takes long for the team to get things [00:14:30] done, and Hannah is on my account team and, um, continue to stress like how important it's to check in with the client, even if you don't have.
Something new to report, just to let them know that things are moving on schedule and, um, [00:14:45] what the next step will be and when they'll hear, hear back from us and
make sure to stay in touch with them
Ben Cena: which is, which was also the
key because sometimes it is dragging behind. And what we also learn is what people hate is [00:15:00] letting them know same day or later that something is late. And that's, you can get hurt by that. So you have to really learn to let them know beforehand, oh hey.
Two days later, maybe three days later, you're [00:15:15] gonna receive that. So probably that's part of that as well.
Hanna: so you mentioned that with this change you got more referrals and word of mouth increased and your clients seemed to be just overall happier with the experience.
But was there [00:15:30] any other changes that you noticed, whether it was in yourself with your team, the culture, or just anything that you weren't expecting, you knew going in this, that it was gonna increase their experience, but what other outcomes did you find from this?
Ben Cena: The [00:15:45] smallest thing. Was the one, I think I mentioned that in the, in the answers. And that was our client acquisition, and prospect show up on the sales [00:16:00] calls was going from seven minute to 62nd calls where somebody books, a consultation on Calendly, right, which is the well known software.
And then somebody, [00:16:15] our appointments set calls them in 60 seconds rather than seven minutes or beyond that. And what we learned was double pickup rate was double because you catch 'em in that right moment. And showing up [00:16:30] went from about 45% to about 78% on average. So that was probably the quickest YouTube short that I saw from somebody and I said.
There is no reason that doesn't make sense and that's gonna [00:16:45] be worse than what you're doing now. So the ignorance of not doing that was probably the, the biggest thing, the biggest mistake that I, I could have made. So I just made that decision in probably 30 minutes. I made a call to my, to [00:17:00] my team who are making those calls.
I said, well, there is no more, seven minutes, 60 seconds. Now let's go.
Hanna: Well, I mean, it makes sense. They're holding their phone, they're on their computer. They're, however they've contacted you, you know that they're thinking about it. [00:17:15] I even struggle with, I really wanna do something right now. I'm really interested in talking to this company, but then 30 minutes goes by and I get onto something else, and now I don't have the time for you for two weeks.
So it, it's a very smart thing to do. But did it add any pressure to your [00:17:30] team? Like how did they respond to having to move that quickly?
Ben Cena: It is not about quickness because it's just a few key notification kind of things where we said, okay, is it about speed or is it about just [00:17:45] reaction? Just have the right tools where you say, okay, I. Let me go to my computer, just set up automatic notification so everything pops up. It pops up with a number.
You just click one button, you make a call. [00:18:00] It wasn't, it wasn't that difficult. It's more about technical aspects of that. That's, I think that's the key where you think, okay, is it gonna put, is the experience gonna change? For the [00:18:15] team or for, for a potential customer. And we, we learn it's even better because actually people move on.
Not in 30 minutes. People move on in in three minutes. They are just two minutes. They're all something else. We forget what we filled out. We filled out so many [00:18:30] forms. They don't, we don't care. They don't know. So what was huge was huge. And it was very easy for the team, actually, surprisingly.
Hanna: That's good. And you've kind of mentioned this a few times, but you changed the mindset in our beginning of the conversation from [00:18:45] marketing to customer experience. I'm sure that that helped change their mindset to, I'm getting more meetings that are actually worth my time. So sounds like this little small change had a really big outcome for you, so that's really good to hear.
So [00:19:00] [00:19:15] I wanna jump in and ask about your customer journey. Um, [00:19:30] tell us about how you acquire a lead. Like, is that all digital? Um, is everyone landing on a form on your website and doing an inquiry? Um, and I think it's really interesting that you've gone from seven minutes [00:19:45] to 30 seconds and with the size purchase that you're talking about or the, the, um, size conversion that you're talking about being that large.
Wendy: I find it really interesting 'cause I think a lot of, like, let's say a [00:20:00] consulting company that's selling a consulting project that's, you know, 30, $40,000 a year, um, they're probably sitting on those leads for a while and thinking, well, you know, I need to be prepared when I call [00:20:15] and I need to be ready to talk.
And probably putting it off a little bit even so that they appear smart and all of that when they call the person back. As opposed to, let me get back in this, in, in [00:20:30] touch with this person in 30 seconds, schedule a time, make sure they know that I'm here and I'm willing and get this done. Right. So talk me through that journey and how you feel like [00:20:45] this has impacted that.
Um, because I think that's a really great lesson for people to, take away from this.
Ben Cena: No, I tested that because I, I enjoy being a customer myself. And I [00:21:00] always fill out the forms. And actually surprisingly, how many companies don't do that. And, and there are a few, I was filling out some forms about cars or apartment build apartments, different [00:21:15] apartments, but I want, I had interest in, and some of them call in like 20 seconds, maybe one or two out of 20.
And some of 'em just call the next day, and I have no idea which that phone number is. I will not pick [00:21:30] up. I don't care. Right. So actually now, especially in United States here, is slightly different. In Europe, slightly different because there aren't so many calls happening. At the volume United [00:21:45] States, we have different structures now where you can just send people to voicemail if you don't know the number right?
You, you do these kind of things. In Europe, people are not really used to that. I'm from Europe. I lived in the UK for, for, for [00:22:00] six, six years or seven years. I'm originally from Lithuania, lived there for 20 years. So in the United States it's mandatory. To do something like that because people are, [00:22:15] you know, we, we, we forget in a couple of seconds and you actually have to take a step forward.
Fervor, which we actually did. And another thing that people might want to do, especially United States, people are with [00:22:30] United States clients all the time sending a message by saying, Hey a person from this phone number is gonna give you a call. So they know what number that is and once they see that, the [00:22:45] chances of them picking up is much higher.
And we saw that difference with people in the United States. We didn't see that big of a difference elsewhere, but we are talking to, to Americans here. So that's probably, that probably matters a lot.[00:23:00]
Wendy: Right. Right. So would you mind talking through the technology stack that you're using to achieve these goals? Um, what do you talked about Calendly, but what [00:23:15] other tools are you using to make sure that your team gets notified quickly and that they can make the call quickly and that your, your cell cycle is, um, it sounds like it's, um, very efficient.
What tools are you using for that?
Ben Cena: We [00:23:30] primarily use high level high level is what we are using. Um, are you aware of high level?
Wendy: I am not aware of high level.
Ben Cena: It's, it's, it's all in one tool. It's it's really large company and became [00:23:45] very large company for a lot since, like three, four years ago. I think it's close to a billion dollars of annual revenue. So we have everything in one place. The messages, the [00:24:00] calls, emails, everything is in one place. So we would, we, we
Wendy: So is that just for the, is that just for the sales cycle or is that managing other areas of your
Ben Cena: Everything we, we, [00:24:15] we, we do client notifications, we have WhatsApp integration, we have telegram integration. We have email integration for clients and for non-client. Um, [00:24:30] we have.
Wendy: Is it project management as well?
Ben Cena: It has a CRM. Yes, but we, we, we use external CRM for that, because, and we use, as I said, it has its own calendar as well.[00:24:45]
We found it not to be very effective, but most of the features are very, very effective. And we didn't want to use something for landing pages. Use something else for this. It has built-in landing pages. We have their, [00:25:00] our websites there as well. So we were looking for a tool that has most of the stuff in it, and probably we find we found a tool which is effective.
Most of the time all technology breaks, right? But most of the time it's very [00:25:15] effective.
Wendy: So then, um, with that, that's almost sounding like HubSpot. Yeah. not sure if it is like, is it, do you know HubSpot? Ben? Is it similar to HubSpot?
Ben Cena: [00:25:30] Yeah. It, it just has so many more features. HubSpot is, is, is, is much. More limited, but it's much more effective. Meaning those features are much better. But when I [00:25:45] say better, the page loads faster. You can move from one place to another faster. The high level is slightly slower because they have so much stuff in it.
Probably there isn't a stuff that you wouldn't find anything. Marketing [00:26:00] agencies, they are all using high level, um. So there isn't too many things that it doesn't have. But to answer your question, it's, it has almost probably like half of the stuff [00:26:15] that HubSpot has as well.
Wendy: Okay. How big has your team been?
Ben Cena: I would say probably 20. I, I'm not really sure because I'm not talking to all of them.
Wendy: Okay.
Ben Cena: say 27, 35 people. Somewhere in [00:26:30] that
Wendy: Okay. Do you feel like high level is a tool that works for businesses of any size? I.
Ben Cena: Yeah. Yeah. At at least, at least up to a hundred [00:26:45] million dollars a year. It really works well.
Wendy: Okay.
Ben Cena: I dunno, to be honest with you,
Wendy: Okay.
Ben Cena: I dunno too many billion
Wendy: Okay.
Ben Cena: that use high level.
Wendy: That's a new tool that I haven't looked at. So, um, thank you for sharing that. So [00:27:00] talk to about, talk to us about, um, I mean you're obviously measuring everything, um, just from the way you talk. So what types of measurements, and you talked about like just the acquisition rate based on changing [00:27:15] the timeframe.
What other kinds of measurements have you been able to make to really understand the impact of this change?
Ben Cena: O of the change of a quick call or some other changes that we made.[00:27:30]
Wendy: Um, either,
Ben Cena: Oh, yeah.
Wendy: about how you're measuring, changing your business. Yeah.
Ben Cena: Yeah, I, I really love, I, I, I think if you're not measuring, you're being blind. So [00:27:45] we and, and there are so many things to measure, so you get really overwhelmed by all the numbers. So I, I tend to try to find the numbers that really can have what I call a change reaction. Meaning you [00:28:00] make 1 1 1 change and it has this change reaction of significant improvements moving forward.
So the change that we made, for example, with a quick call, right? We learned that so many [00:28:15] people, so many more people pick up the call, right? So that's the first measure. The second measure after that is how many more people show up on the call. So that's the secondary thing. Right now what you learn after that, [00:28:30] directly based on our volume and stats, but about our closing ratio on the calls increased by about 7%, which is, it was relatively big understanding that [00:28:45] people who had this quick touch a really pleasant conversation, with a person right away.
Even managed to influence the call and we, we always [00:29:00] try to make one change at a time. There are so many entrepreneurs who say, well, I have to change everything. Let me change this, this, this, this. And when, when they don't know what worked, even if it, even if it becomes better, but it was [00:29:15] essentially, it was useless because you don't know which change made the difference.
Maybe just one, maybe everything, but, and how much so. I think also the key is to make it one change at a time and let it [00:29:30] sink in. Give it some time, give it some numbers. Not necessarily time that are measurable, but has enough zeros on them and saying, okay, now it makes sense. Let's make another change.
Let's make another possible improvement.[00:29:45]
Wendy: Yeah, I think you, um, I think you follow the philosophy that. I talk about quite a bit, that is eat the elephant one bite at a time, right? Like, don't try to do it all at one time. 'cause you'll, [00:30:00] you'll also just get in your own head that you can't accomplish it all right? And if you just take it in those baby steps and learn from them, then you're gonna be more and more successful over time.
So,
Ben Cena: You're exactly right. Exactly. Right. [00:30:15] You don't want to get overwhelmed either, or being overwhelmed is is not a good position to be in as an entrepreneur.
Wendy: Absolutely not. You're right. And I think many entrepreneurs are overwhelmed just by the state that they're [00:30:30] in, much or less when they're starting to try to make changes and figure out what the impact they, they have. So. Um, talk about what you have learned from that. Like has that helped you approach other challenges [00:30:45] in your business in a different way?
Ben Cena: Yeah. Yeah. We, at that moment, at a moment like Pittsburgh, we see such a significant change. You say, you naturally say, okay, are there any [00:31:00] other improvements we, we could, we could make? Is there any other number that can make such big of a difference? For example, we started testing from two call close to one call [00:31:15] close and see if we can call, if we can close people on one call better than two and save time.
So, and we are still testing that it seems to be more successful than, than two [00:31:30] calls. But in essence, we, we thought that we. Wanted to do always two calls because it just made sense because we needed more information, but we figured that we can get that information [00:31:45] in that little call that is, that is done after 60 seconds.
Now that was more pressure on people who had to spend 60 seconds quickly figure out what those people are up to and check their form. And figure out the questions in their [00:32:00] head in 60 seconds. That was more pressure on those people that we made on, on, on the team. But it seems to be we, we, we are saving so much time, meaning we are closing the same exact percentage.
It wasn't [00:32:15] an improvement, but we cut out so many hours of useless work.
Wendy: Right. Well, and the, and sales cycles can be brutal. So, um, so that's fantastic. So tell me this, um, do you have, [00:32:30] when you say close. Does close mean they're asking for a contract on that first call, or does that mean getting a DocuSign and they're signing on the bottom line right there [00:32:45] on the call before you're hanging up or shortly after you hang up and schedule the, maybe the kickoff or the onboarding?
Ben Cena: Yeah,
Wendy: what do you mean by close? Yeah.
Ben Cena: yeah. We don't do that on the [00:33:00] call. We do that. We send a DocuSign, as you said, and a payment link right after we give them. That same date to complete it. And we scheduled on an onboarding call, that same call, [00:33:15] so we create an immediate relationship kickstart. So we are obligated to do everything immediately and we want to schedule that call like in two days maximum.[00:33:30]
Not to drag it a week out because then people say, well, let me check this agreement for longer. Let me see, let me talk to my attorneys. Let me talk to my hand
Hanna: Right.
Ben Cena: talk to my pillow and all my friends, and, and, and then let's come back [00:33:45] to that in 2026. Yeah. So it's usually,
Wendy: spouse, my child, my dog, and all their friends. Yeah.
yeah. And
Ben Cena: on it a little bit. Yeah.
Wendy: yeah. And then there's not even the time for buyer's remorse that happened [00:34:00] before the contract even got signed. So
Yeah, Okay.
Ben Cena: us, for us, it's a bit more difficult because it's such a complex offer.
Wendy: It's a large investment too, to make a decision in a few [00:34:15] less than an hour. Right? Or
Ben Cena: It, it's, it's less about the money, it's more about the complexity in terms of what we are getting. But it's, it's eight month journey. It's not a eight week program where you lose five kilos or 15 pounds or whatever. [00:34:30] It's not as simple as that. So, so it, we learned that we have to be more gentle with them, but at the same time, we have to be firm with them by say, okay, you have to do as an X amount of time.
If we don't do that, we [00:34:45] had many instances. Probably 10, 15, 15% of people just disappear, and that's fine. Half of them come back in six months.
Wendy: That's great. So what, what piece of advice would you give to [00:35:00] other. Business owners and leaders who are, um, you know, looking to make similar impacts in their business. What's your number one piece of advice?
Ben Cena: Solve today's problems today. Don't try to solve tomorrow's problems [00:35:15] today. People, people are looking too far ahead. We're focusing on small fires instead of focusing one big fire and focus on solve that problem today. And just like, okay, let me do this little thing now you're, you're, [00:35:30] you are solving your problems today so you can sleep well and you, you continue tomorrow.
Hanna: So you had brought up consultants earlier and just that they sometimes wait. Um, and that waiting. Is because they wanna sound smart. Um, [00:35:45] and when you said it initially, my first thought was, or they know that this is a big investment and they think that they have the upper hand.
Whereas Ben, you and your team are attacking it in a different way. You're focusing on the customer and know that they want to spend this money [00:36:00] and they're going to be investing with you and just attack it head on. And then to make it even more impactful. And this is so hard to like. To do so the fact that you've done it is great [00:36:15] but actually taking it one step at a time, um, I had wrote down while I'm taking notes and learning from you, and when you take it one step at a time and measure, you get results.
That then lets you fine tune. All the functions to make it work [00:36:30] and then you can keep looking further and make improvements and each are elephant in one bite, as Wendy said. So I just think it's a great mindset change that you made from the very beginning, and it was very awesome to hear that it worked for you so well.
Ben Cena: Now listen, you, you have to overcome, [00:36:45] it's not even about smart for consultants or whoever. So many people listening, right? They, they are just procrastinating on taking action, meaning. Recording that video, whatever you're doing, recording that [00:37:00] video, making that call, whatever you need to do. Usually the best time is just like in the second time.
Even if you fail, then you can prepare better the next time. But the result is gonna be so much higher. People try to create these things in their heads by [00:37:15] saying, well, our service is, um, luxurious. We are premium product. We're gonna call them next year. We are gonna create this, illusion of superb value.
We learn that that doesn't work. [00:37:30] Unless you are her, you sell Hermes bags or some Gucci or Rolex. And you have been there for 150 years, then you can have that leverage. If you have a consulting firm that [00:37:45] out there seven years and you're trying to say, well, we are the best and we are gonna call you next year, I would doubt that, that that would work better than calling them in 60 seconds and saying, Hey, saw that you booked a consultation.
Let's talk.[00:38:00]
Wendy: So stop procrastinating everyone out there in sales. Stop procrastinating. Stop talking yourself out of calling people back fast. It can be done. It can, and be really, really
Ben Cena: and people are just leaving. People are just [00:38:15] losing money. They're leaving money on the table and then we can, that's the trick. People then have somebody to blame and they learn and they find a person a thing to blame. they say, well, [00:38:30] I tried my best. Did you try your best? I'm not sure.
Wendy: So is there anything else you'd like to share with us today, Ben? I, I love these insights. Um.
Ben Cena: I have so many things to share. I don't think we're gonna have enough time.[00:38:45]
Wendy: Yeah, well, from customer experience to sales, to, um, just the way you're looking at your business and, and analyzing, um, the metrics in a, in a different way. Um, there's just some wonderful insights [00:39:00] coming out of this, so thank you so much for
Ben Cena: Probably another thing people want, might want to know, may maybe they would not want to hear it. Yeah, just looking at numbers specifically, just, just start looking at numbers. [00:39:15] If a, an entrepreneur, a business owner is listening to this, if you are a marketing person, if you're tracking numbers, look at numbers.
It's just like a bank account. Every morning you have to check it. Maybe somebody stole your money. Maybe. Maybe your Facebook [00:39:30] ads or whatever ads you're running are blowing up out of the water and you say, well, I'm sleeping on it. You know, you cannot do that. You have to. What's your numbers and say, well, what do I, what kind of decisions do I have to make and make start making decisions based on [00:39:45] numbers?
Not on feelings. Gut feelings, emotions. Most, most people are not there yet to make gut feeling driven decisions. You have to be so good to rely on your gut.
Wendy: All right. [00:40:00] We really appreciate these insights. Um, you've got, you've given some great advice and we thank you so much for coming on the show. Can you share with our listeners how to get in touch with you and your company [00:40:15] information please. I.
Ben Cena: Hey, if we just go to high value author.com there are so many links there, so many buttons we can click. We can find me on Google. Just Google my name and gonna, they're gonna find me if they want to me for [00:40:30] some reason instead of finding my company.
Wendy: That sounds great, Ben. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today. We really appreciate it. And to all the listeners out there, thank you for giving us your time and listening to these [00:40:45] wonderful insights today. A, and now it's time for you to go out and find your hummingbird effect. Thank you.