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Conversations with the smartest people in the golf business to get the inside stories and strategies driving the business of golf forward. Hosted by former PGA Tour player Roberto Castro.
[00:00:13] Roberto: All right. Welcome back to the Course Record show. Today's Quick nine is with Thomas McHardy, who's seen every side of the sports industry from working with global brands like Red Bull and Diageo to analytics roles with major rights holders. To helping grow NFL Member Clubs internationally. Now he's VP of team marketing and business Operations at TGL and Tomorrow Sports, helping build the teams, their fan bases from the ground up.
Thomas, good talking to you.
[00:00:42] Thomas: Good to see you. Appreciate you having me.
[00:00:44] Roberto: Yeah. Alright. I'm gonna lay out two situations. The first is I'm trying to establish a fan base in Europe for an NFL team, but number one. They don't know American football. They don't know what the NFL is, and they don't know the difference between an Arizona Cardinal and an Atlanta Falcon.
The second is I'm trying to establish a fan base in US for A TGL team, but they don't know what professional indoor golf is. Don't know what TGL is and don't know the difference between the Bay and Boston Common. So what's the same about those two efforts you've been involved in and what's different?
[00:01:21] Thomas: Yeah. Um, no similarities. Next question. Okay.
Gonna be a quick episode.
[00:01:27] Roberto: A very
[00:01:27] Thomas: quick note, quick episode. No, a lot of similarities. And that was actually, um, one of the things that drew me the most to this role from the NFL. Uh, so my last role at the NFL, we were helping to launch the global markets program, which was the first time that NFL Clubs had the opportunity to commercialize internationally and really.
Glo grow their fandom globally. But they obviously didn't play in those markets. There was an education aspect. They had to engage the right strategic partners, grow their uh, footprint there, and not just expect to come in with the same level of success in Germany as they would in Kansas City, per se.
[00:02:06] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:02:06] Thomas: So when thinking about this from A TGL standpoint. It was great because not only were there similar challenges, we don't play in the same markets. There's education, but it really was a blank slate where they got to create these team brand identities from the ground up. So some of the things we looked at as a league when working with the teams were.
Uh, first, how do you meet fans where they are in the community, social media platforms? Are you able to tie your brand to established brands or organizations that these fans already follow? And are you speaking the right language? Uh, at, at the NFL when we're looking internationally, that was literal. Are you speaking to them in their home dialect?
Uh, here it's more metaphorical, right? Everybody. Um. Is familiar with traditional greengrass golf, how are you tying that bridge to indoor golf in a language that they would understand? So you're meeting them where they are, are you educating them? Right? How is TGL how are these teams similar to what they already know and love?
What makes TGL and the Atlanta Drive or Boston Common Golf unique? And then how and where can these fans engage with your brand to actually build that relationship, right? You're not coming to them straight outta the ether. How can they find you in the community on TV and on social media? And then finally, it's, it's about showing up consistently, right?
You have to build that path. You have to meet them, you know, on the right platforms at the right time, in the right way. To resonate with them and really show them what it means to be a fan of one of these teams or the TGL league in general.
[00:03:51] Roberto: That's cool. I wanna dive into the TGL, but one thing that people may or may not know, maybe today, because the NFL's been on the international thing for, you know, five, six years, it feels like maybe longer the teams have to buy into a market or like they get a territory, which I think.
Surprise people at first. I only learned this like a year ago. Like the Cowboys can't just go to the eight biggest cities in Europe and Rio and Mexico City. Right. They pick a couple and focus there. Is that correct?
[00:04:18] Thomas: Correct. Yeah. So what we did, uh, we had a process where they would apply for rights. Uh, so you would have to say for the Cowboys, for example, we want Mexico, you had different teams take different approaches.
The Dolphins wanted to be the team of Latin America. Other teams saw Germany as a, a focal point, so they wanted to get ahead of that. But yeah, they had to put forth a case of why that. Specific market, why it made sense for them and how they were gonna resource and staff appropriately. So we knew that they would put the correct investment in to see the rewards.
[00:04:51] Roberto: That's great. I know some have leaned in, you know, the, uh, Jacksonville Jaguars I know have gone big in the UK and London. Are there teams that have not joined this program and are not pursuing international strategy?
[00:05:04] Thomas: Well at this point they have all 32 teams that are involved. Okay. So they just had to get rid of one, uh, specific person at the league office before the program really started to flourish.
Um, but no. Now at this point, all teams are bought in and have at least one, uh, international territory. So it's great to see the program continue to grow and thrive.
[00:05:23] Roberto: Yeah. Okay. So when you talk about the three pillars for TGL community, which is what's happening locally, social media, and then traditional media, so ESPN, I mean, all are important.
Which ones realistically have the most impact? Or which one of those three is it? Is it getting people to ESPN Monday and Tuesday night? I mean, social is so powerful now, or, yeah, it's harder to get people in person, but that's like the stickiest thing you can do is a watch party in Atlanta or a Los Angeles, et cetera.
[00:05:53] Thomas: Exactly. It, it all comes down to different goals. Right? I, I think for breadth and exposure, nothing's gonna be broadcast, especially when you have a great partner like ESPN where you have hundreds of thousands, million plus people tuning into a specific match where they actually get to engage and see the core product.
[00:06:12] Roberto: Yep.
[00:06:12] Thomas: That said, you know, being involved in the local community. Is unparalleled, right? We've Los Angeles Golf Club has done a great job of showing up at different events. They show up at breweries to meet with people. They show up at local golf events, uh, inner city events, and they're just really integrating themselves within the community.
And that has started to pay off in spades from a partnership standpoint, marketing their social following. It's just showing them that they are core and authentic to the city.
[00:06:45] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:06:45] Thomas: And then obviously social media, you kind of get the, the mix of both of those where you can hit. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of people at once, consistently with a message that you create.
But then you're also creating that space for dialogue where fans can actually speak back and you're getting to hear them and alter your messaging and make sure that that two-way dialogue is authentic and resonating with the people you're ultimately trying to talk to.
[00:07:11] Roberto: Yeah. I hadn't thought about the social media being a two-way dialogue.
That's really interesting. So when you talk about. Teams like what does it look, what does a TGL team look like? You work with them so closely. Like what's the infrastructure? I think one thing that's unique, I'll say is it's very asset light, right?
Like to run the Atlanta Falcons or the Atlanta Hawks, like, I need physio, , I need a building. There's a whole bunch of things that come with it. TGL is unique. The players are. Absolutely aligned to their team and you know, their name, image, likeness. They're part of the brand.
They're part of the team, but the team doesn't really have to provide them much other than, you know, opportunities for partnership or a platform to play their matches, like a, a spot on the roster. It's kind of unique in that way. Right?
[00:07:56] Thomas: Yeah. It's very unique and the beauty of my job and only somewhat a, uh, cause of frustration occasionally is that with the six teams we currently have, it's six very unique approaches.
Um, you have teams like Atlanta and Boston who leverage a shared service model where they have larger organizations and experience and resources that they can go to from a finance, legal, accounting. Partnership sales standpoint where they have all these resources in place and can leverage that. Then on the other end of the spectrum, you have the LAGC who built it all from the ground up, and they have that core team that's really focused on LAGC.
I, I don't think there's one right path to success. I think as long as you have people at the top who are bought in and willing to invest the time and money that it takes to. Build a fan base, then you will, and they are seeing the results of that. And it's come more so in the first year from a marketing standpoint.
This year we've seen a lot of success, um, from a commercial standpoint with each team having multiple partnership deals. We've seen the revenue that teams generate go up year over year, and we look to continue to see that grow as teams get, uh, more and more ingrained in their community. Uh, the the interesting thing from a player standpoint is the fact that the, the players, the golfers are independent contractors.
Okay? So, whereas at the NFL. They have a union you play for called the Atlanta Falcons. The Falcons get to tell those players where to be, when and for how long, uh, with the independent contractors. We ask very politely. Uh, we would love for you to be here at this state for this time. And the guys are great.
We have a great player relations team internally and each of the six teams have great relationships with their players. But we don't. Control. It's more of that collaboration and that two-way dialogue.
[00:09:57] Roberto: Yep. So let's talk about partnerships, sponsorships. If I'm a company and you've been, you know, closely worked with companies more on the PR side, I mentioned Red Bull and Diageo, I mean, you know, what they're looking for, what they're trying to accomplish.
Like what's the pitch, what's the value prop? Is it, hey, there's, you know, 5, 6, 7 matches down in Palm Beach? In the middle of winter, bring your clients, . Is it you know, brand association? Is it the player piece? Like, are, are some of those being structured as like, okay, do a deal with Boston Common, and then we'll also get you inside track with one of the players is it all tied together there?
Like how are these deals coming together?
[00:10:35] Thomas: Yeah, it similar to how the teams are set up. It, it's, there's no right answer. They're coming from multiple areas. Yeah. You have some deals that start at the league level. They want exposure in the broadcast. Okay. They want media inventory. They want hospitality to host clients and executives at these.
Matches. But then sometimes it filters down because there are specific markets that they care about or there are specific players that they'd like to get face time with and potentially do a separate deal there. But then there are also deals that come up because they are aligned from a team perspective with what the teams are trying to do and what the teams stand for.
And we've seen it go both ways from, I, I mentioned Atlanta and Boston earlier. They have those larger organizations. We've seen deals come from their large organization that now TGL is getting the teams are getting a piece of that pie, but then also going the other way where golf was kind of the entry point for the larger Fenway Sports Group or AMBSE.
That they're getting them in the door through TGL and able to extend that partnership to other areas of the best.
[00:11:42] Roberto: Oh yeah, I see what you're saying. So for A and BSE, it would sit, it would you go to a partner and say, Hey, TG L'S a, a smaller property in the grand scheme of sports, get to know us here. It's a really unique thing.
It's targeted. Do a couple matches, you know, let's see how we work together. And then that grows into something with the Atlanta Falcons, which is probably a bigger price point, a bigger commitment. That's interesting.
[00:12:05] Thomas: Exactly. Yeah. And you know, a lot of this, it is business. There are business reasons, but then there's also some of, oh, an executive CEO or CMO really likes golf and having them in the building, shaking hands with a Justin Thomas or Rory McElroy.
It never hurts, right? So you're kind of playing into what their, their personal passions while having that clear business connection to close the deal and hopefully get, get into a larger opportunity.
[00:12:34] Roberto: Alright, let's flip the personal passions 180 on the data and analytics side. I have to ask about that.
You, you did a turn, uh, with a firm that, that focused on, on rights holders and data analytics, performance analytics. How does that play into TGL? What have you seen there?
[00:12:51] Thomas: Yeah. Um, that was really eye-opening.
You, you mentioned, I, I started my career in marketing. It was a lot of qualitative, you know? Yeah. How do we feel? What looks good? Moving to E 15 after business school was very much quantitative, right. What are the numbers saying? And it really opened my. Personally of how powerful data can be, and not only from a data and analytics perspective, if all right, we have a data and analytics team, let's focus on that.
But connecting the dots with other parts of the organization to say, Hey, we know you've always done this. Look at this data that we're seeing here. Have you tried to think about it this other way? And TMRW sports, um, has a great data and analytics team, and as we've. Gone through over the last two and a half years since I've been here, data has become more and more of a driver of what's making those decisions, both from a overall business planning standpoint to individual decisions on what's being selected for the Fanatics fan shop.
You know, what are we, um, doing? How are we pricing tickets? Right? It, there isn't a part of the organization that data doesn't play a key role.
[00:14:02] Roberto: That's cool. That's really cool. You mentioned it already, but those six teams, right? Different ownership personalities, different operational strategies, different leadership teams.
I think the only common thread is all of those groups have been wildly successful in other business ventures. That's why they own TGL teams. What's a common thread that you've seen across those owners or ownership groups that you admire or try to emulate?
[00:14:29] Thomas: Yeah, I think it's the, the willingness to take risks, right?
Um. You have these owners and these ownership groups that have been wildly successful, right? That's why you're in the position to spend however much money they spend on these TGL teams. But what they really do, and what I, I appreciate about TGL and TMRW sports in general is they're not resting on their laurels, right.
Fortunately at, at a startup, we can't, we don't have the opportunity to look back five, 10 years and say, oh, this is how we've already done stuff. It's the continue, continued pursuit of progress. Yeah. Uh, it doesn't always manifest itself in. Positive conversations where everybody leaves agreeing with each other, but it does ultimately get us to a better place.
And as long as we as a league and the teams are coming at it from a place of we're trying to make everybody better and these are the ideas we have, these are the insights we have and we're actually taking the time to consider them. I think we're all moving on that, that path together. And the teams have been great about continuing to push the league to make sure we are.
Thinking about things from a team perspective bringing learnings from other sports into TMRW sports. And we can't and won't always implement 'em, but at least we're trying to foster that discussion of, Hey, this is a great idea. Yes, we'll move forward with this, or No, we can't and this is why. And maybe there's a secondary option from that that is different from where either of us are coming, but helps get a set ultimate point of continuing to improve the product.
[00:16:05] Roberto: That's really cool. Willingness to take risk and constantly pushing for better. Uh, it's a common theme amongst, uh, billionaires or just successful folks. It, it really is.
[00:16:16] Thomas: Yeah, it's, it's, uh, some of that's hopefully starting to run off, rub off on me, uh, hopefully one day. You know, you're always continuing to learn and trying to improve and, uh, I think, look, we have a great group internally at TMRW.
Sports learned a lot from these people, but also from the teams, right? Yeah. You have people who come from, you know, Alexis Ohanian and his team. I've created Reddit. They have completely different experiences from Boston, common Golf and Fenway Sports Group. And selfishly I get to kind of sit in the middle and cherry pick what I like from all these different people and incorporate it into, uh, into my role and hopefully, uh, where we go moving forward.
You,
[00:16:56] Roberto: you sit in a really, really unique spot. I'm always fascinated to just honestly watch you interact with the different teams every week. It takes somebody, with, intellect and EQ to, to manage all those different groups, and I've watched you do it very, very successfully.
All right, let's close with this. You said two and a half years, TGL, it's a startup. Maybe one of the most well-funded high profile startups. I can think of what's been just like a cool moment, right, where maybe you're, you're flying on that plane back home and you're like, this is a wild ride. Because I feel like in sports you've done some cool things.
You'll continue to do cool things, but this could be a one of one experience. Any moments that just stand out.
[00:17:33] Thomas: Uh, yeah. Well, the, the first one I'll give you two side, two sides of the coin. The first one was a couple weeks after I started when the, uh, original dome deflated. Okay. And at that point I wasn't aware that that was what our, our permanent home would be, I thought that was just the dome that was over the construction, so that was a wake up call. But you know, seeing the team move quickly and hearing the conversations with the teams, but also SoFi, ESPN and how gracious they were and how strategic everybody was, that was great.
And then we ran some dress rehearsals before the first match last year. So in the days preceding the, the first match on January 7th, we had practice players in, we filled up a portion of the stands, but it wasn't until the night before we had the actual players in and the crowd was electric and it was a great match and the guys were having fun.
And that was one where I was like, oh, wow, this actually, this is gonna work. And you know. Not super excited to admit that it took until the day before the first match for me to truly be sold. But that feeling of the atmosphere, the electricity in the crowd, that was one where, uh, personally I was able to exhale a little bit and say, all right, now we can focus on what's gonna make this long term because.
This is a great product and I think fans are going to really enjoy it.
[00:18:54] Roberto: I agree a hundred percent. I was there that night. I was there those three, four days leading up to opening night, season one. And it's funny, I got there maybe 10 days before you did. Again, everyone's putting their heart and soul into this, like they're really convicted of the concept, but it really was until about 10 days before we were playing real matches in the SoFi Center where it was like.
This is compel, like this is good. And then you know, numbers and all is great, but like audience adoption, I've said it a thousand times. You could see after a week, two weeks, three weeks. Yeah. It wasn't perfect, but the general audience adoption was, Hey, this is cool. Like this is different and cool and it needs to get better, but it's good and it's gotten better.
And that continues to be the like. You know, I'm into this, like I've been watching every week or my son's, that audience adoption. You know, it's like a snowball and it's been fun to watch it roll downhill.
[00:19:48] Thomas: Yeah, it's, it's been crazy. And the stickiness is also something that has been pleasantly surprising, right?
There's always, with something new, you worry about is this a novelty? Is that gonna wear off? Yeah. But the amount of people that come back and watch Match After Match or come down to SoFi Center, um, that's been really impressive. And that's where I think we have that great foundation to continue growing as we continue iterating.
[00:20:13] Roberto: Awesome. Thomas McCarty of TGL and Tomorrow Sports. Thanks a lot for, uh, being on the course record show.
[00:20:19] Thomas: Appreciate the time.
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