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Hey Padel enthusiasts welcome to Padel Smash Academy, I am Cesc and I am here with Julian and we're all about Padel! Whether you're new to the sport or an experienced player, you've come to the right place. Our goal is to provide you with the best tips & tricks, news, and weekly lessons to help you improve your game and take your Padel to the next level. So grab your Padel Racket and let's get started with all things Padel on Padel Smash Academy.
Hey, Julian says here and
welcome to another exciting
episode of Paddle Smash Academy.
Today we're so exciting
to have Carlos Carijo.
He is the CEO of the Asia Pacific Paddle
Tour, and among the, besides that, he's
also an entrepreneur and he's part of a
conglomerate of different companies that
I believe everything is related to Paddle.
Carlos, thank you for
coming to the channel.
I know it's very early for you.
It's very late for us.
Where, where are you first?
Let's start with, with, with,
where are you right now?
Okay.
Um, it's pleasure to be here and, and
thank you very much for, for inviting me.
Uh, right now I'm connected from
Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia because we
just finished a tournament on Sunday
and I'm staying a bit more for a
couple of meetings and, and so on.
And really excited to, to jump into
some comments and discussions with you.
So Carlos, uh, why don't you talk to
me a little bit about the Malaysia,
the paddle in that area, and how
did you get involved with these, um,
with the, um, the paddle tournament?
Uh.
Okay.
So, um, to step a bit away of, um,
why I am here and what we are doing,
what we are doing, um, I was coming
from entrepreneurial background.
So my background is, uh, finance, but
uh, at the early stage I found out that,
uh, entrepreneurship is what I wanted
to do or, uh, like building projects.
And, and I studied in, in Spain, of
course, uh, where I come from and, um.
Two, three years ago, I, I came to
Asia, um, and then once here being
involved already in the industry.
I saw, or we were able to understand what
the markets, uh, were asking meaning.
And my partner, which is Alex, Dominic,
another guy from, uh, Catalonia,
that, uh, now he's living in, in
Singapore, he was a coach and he was
coaching one of the main players in
Asia, um, meaning the number one or
in Australia, number one in, in Japan.
And, um, they were.
Having big problems.
I dunno if, um, you've heard about that
or, you know, people related with this,
which is, okay, I want to compete.
I've got good level, but,
uh, there's nothing around.
So I need to go to Spain, uh, pay $3,000,
eh, hotel accommodation to compete and
then still my level is not that good.
So when I go, uh, first, second game.
Um, so because of that we said,
okay, there's something missing,
which is competition in whole Asia.
So it's not that we are talking about
a small area, we are talking about
more than 50% of the population of
the world, and there was nothing.
So we said, okay, we have the
knowledge, we have, uh, the contacts,
uh, we new brands, uh, and we said,
okay, let's set it up, uh, a tour.
And nowadays I think we are over
the expectations of, uh, what we
were planning to, to create so far.
So, so tell us a little bit, uh,
I mean, how, first of all, how
is the paddle situation in Asia?
So when you refer to Asia, uh, why don't
we divide it by countries first and, and.
You're operating first, and then
how's the paddle growing there?
Super.
Um, so yeah, because it's huge area, so.
To explain where we are and
then we can go song by song.
Uh, giving some, some
ideas of how is it going.
Um, we are like starting from
India, Pakistan, and Middle
East, this area of the world, uh,
that, uh, we have presence there.
It's all the.
China, Southeast Asia, Japan.
So coming all to the east and then
coming down to Australia, New Zealand.
So this is our area of influence,
and here's quite interesting because
it's not, uh, balanced, so it, it
doesn't follow, uh, specific, uh,
rule because some countries they
were, um, already for some years in
paddle as can be Japan and Australia.
Uh, FIP, they have presence
there, but actually.
That was the reason of not growing.
So those countries, they are stopped.
So they had paddle 10 years ago
and they have good players, meaning
quality players because they've
been playing for, for longer time.
But there's no growth there.
There are limitation in courts,
eh, the, the people that they
are leading, the associations,
federations, they are kind of.
Willing to known, uh, to
own paddle meaning, okay.
Anything that you want to do related
with paddle in their country,
you have to let them know, they
have to give you a permission.
And this stops is kind of a
roof somehow, uh, for paddle.
And then the new countries, the ones that,
uh, three years ago there was nothing.
Those are the ones that they are, uh,
growing a lot with some exemptions,
but, um, and now I will mention.
In numbers, Indonesia is
the number one by far.
Um, one specific reason there is Bali
is in there and Bali, you know, there
are so many experts and, and so on.
You're looking at each other.
Um, and, um.
Then Jakarta, which is the capital, is
the one that is picking up now the most.
So Bali was the starting point, and
people then Jakarta Capital, more
business, uh, they're getting to know
now is a starting just to give you a
number that, uh, you are more familiar.
Only Ja, only Jakarta as, as a
capital, uh, is bigger in terms of, uh,
courts, clubs than the US as a whole.
So, uh.
Wow, this is quite impressive, uh, because
I, I was in Miami three weeks or four
weeks ago, uh, with the rack attacks
and so on, and I was asking, and I was
impressed of seeing how small is, uh, the
US in comparison with, uh, how much noise
is making now in, in terms of, uh, events.
Uh.
Mm. Yeah.
Reserve cap, so on.
And um, okay.
And this Indonesia, but then
markets at scale, um, where every
event that we do is sold out, uh,
Singapore, same thing, Philippines.
Those are those countries where
they didn't have any stopper
and they are growing a lot.
Same like India.
I will say I'm super impressed and in
India is gonna be huge, huge market.
And the only one that is big,
and I think it's a bit stopped
yet, uh, I will say it's China.
They do have, but kinda they
have, uh, control on that.
And, um, it's not that well organized
even though there are some leaders
that they are moving paddle around.
But, uh, it's the only one I would say
is a bit, uh, under this, uh, wave.
So when you say Jakarta, so, and, and you
mentioned how many courts do they have?
How many clubs do they have?
Uh, in comparison.
Yeah.
So maybe I'm wrong, but the number I had,
uh, about the US it was around 600 courts.
Yeah.
Um, and, and Jakarta is above.
And the problem of Jakarta is you,
you ask me today and you ask me
in one week time and we really
have to update, uh, the numbers.
Wow.
'cause on only this year, the number
I have from the federation that, uh,
we collaborate with is that they are.
Aim to open 167 clubs only this year.
So, and each club, how
many courts do they have?
Usually
two.
Um, yeah, that's, that's
the problem there.
That usually the average is quite big.
Uh, so as we are going to a club,
uh, 12 courts, but I will say the
average might be between five and
six courts, uh, per, per club.
So
courts pretty much,
yeah.
Only this area.
Wow.
And I will Sayta capital.
Yeah.
Only in Jakarta.
I mean, Jakarta's huge.
Eh, I'm not saying it's, uh, so I
think they have 30 million people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The United States.
So, uh, it's incredible.
God, it's, it's huge.
And Bali, how many courts do they have?
Or how many clubs do they have in Bali?
This, I would have to check the
data, but, uh, around 200 calls I
think can be something reasonable.
And Bali, the good thing is
that the community now is huge.
So every tournament that you
do, not as, as, as we have this
recognition so people, they fly.
Um, but only the community in Bali.
They are filling up all the, all the
clubs and actually you can go every day,
um, in Bali and you will have one event.
So the clubs internally, they've organized
themselves to, to host an event every day.
And,
and where do you see the
growth, uh, in Asia growing?
You know, going from here now?
I mean, is it gonna
double triple pin to pull?
I mean, everything that we do, I
still think we are in the zero point
x uh, percent of, uh, of the growth.
Lot of growth because when you jump
to, um, to India, we were there
doing an a tournament in, in Mumbai.
I was asking some data and I asked
some, uh, courts distributor, which
is a super good, uh, measure to know
how many courts are being built.
And I asked two of them,
so maybe they are eight.
Both of them.
They were over the a hundred courts
in the last year, uh, sold in India.
Um, so India, whenever it is gonna
come, because now it's just put
in the structure, it's for sure
what we have now, uh, zero point
x percent of what's gonna come.
Which core manufacturers were those two?
I was talking with the one distributing
Sky Paddle, which are the ones
that host our event, uh, Spanish
plan and the other one, it was the
one paddle, uh, that we are know.
Okay, interesting.
So, uh, tell us a little bit
and what, what other countries
you see with a massive growth.
Uh, where, where, where do
you see another fire, paddle?
Fire starting in, in the Asia region?
Um,
I would say a hundred percent.
The next one in the list, I will say
Malaysia, uh, where we are right now.
Um, super interesting here in new projects
here and, um, actually good, uh, because
you of course have, uh, at least in
Spain, is quite common to have this, um,
individual paddle club owner, meaning.
Only one guy doing like
self-employment for him and hiring
some people and running the club.
Here we are seeing this, but
we are seeing more change.
Like someone with a big investment
behind saying, okay, I'm gonna
have 10 clubs in two years time.
Um, and this is happening in everyone,
like from Singapore or from Indonesia.
They are jumping into Malaysian
market because it's the one that is.
More open.
And this is another thing to take
into account in Asia, meaning there
are some countries where to create
a company you need a local partner.
Um, and, and those are things
that you have to take into
account if you want to expand.
So I will say Malaysia is the
most welcoming one in terms
of, uh, regulations and so on.
Still, you have some message that you
need to accomplish, but is the, yeah.
Most welcoming, I would say.
And then the other one that I will say
that I didn't mention before is Thailand.
And Thailand.
We do organize a lot of events there.
Actually in June, we, we
are going to Bangkok again.
Um, but Thailand is quite developed.
I think they are doing things great and
Bangkok is also a big, big capital for
tourism and people going and, and this
market specifically is gonna be huge.
And the other one that is kind of
impressive is Pke, which is the
lifestyle of Bali, I will say.
And in Pke is quite developed as well.
They have, uh.
I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say a
hundred clubs, but maybe close to 50.
Yes.
And the community's big.
A lot of Russian people
play in there and, uh, yep.
It's a interesting market.
I, as well,
super, super exciting.
So how, how does your tour
work and your events work?
How is it structured and
how, how is it organized?
So I will say to minimize the
answer of the question, that we are
premier paddle in a little and, uh,
geographically concentrated, but we have.
Uh, different, um, way of
thinking or way of approaching.
And why is that?
Because of the context.
So we cannot say, okay, take
replicate Premier Paddle and
do it, uh, whatever you want.
Um, basically what we do is
we put, um, amateur and pro.
Different tournaments that's happening
in the same venue at the same time.
So different tournaments, meaning prop
players, they have their prize money and
they compete for that, and they have their
own cap, uh, category and their own draw.
And then amateurs, they have their
own and they compete for equipment.
Price.
So no cast involved from that, but
both of them, they play in the same
courts and in in the same place.
Why we do that?
Because we need to grow the community.
So we are not in the moment
of bringing top players and,
um, filling stadiums that.
In a lot of places in the world,
they are still not in this moment.
So how we do or we create a good
atmosphere, people come in through
amateurs, through volume, through people
that they really like, uh, the game.
And that usually it's the first time
they see that big level in the pros, but
they want to feel that they're pros and
they play in the same place and they have
the same conditions and welcome back.
So this is nice because we usually
do big size events, big size.
Basically, depending on how
big is the venue, where we go.
Because usually we, we are sold out,
and I'm talking about 150 to 200 teams,
uh, competing over two or three day, uh.
Three or four days and um, yep.
Basically this is the format
that then is competition.
And what we also do is we
guarantee everyone that is signing
up, um, two games at least.
So if you lose it's, it's a
knockout, uh, way of format, but
you can go to a consolation draw.
So.
This, we are respecting the
competition and the, and the top level.
But, uh, we are having this, uh,
second choice for the amateurs that
they travel, uh, with, with us.
So each, so, so each event is
independent then it, it's, it's
a weekend thing or a week thing.
Right?
It, there isn't like, uh, um, let's
just say 10 events and 10 different.
Countries and then you accumulate points.
It's not like that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
It's like this.
No, no, it's as you said, that's why
it's more the logic of premier pattern.
So only with this slightly different.
Um, but um, so yeah, there's a ranking.
They are same open.
Actually we have since Challenger,
which is more, uh, uh, smaller category
that is self prepared by the clubs.
And then we have Open Grand
Slam Master and Master Final.
Um, and you accumulate points
because Master Final this year will
be in Jakarta and, uh, it has, uh,
40,000 USD, uh, in, in price money.
So you need to be aligned and, uh, be on
the ranking to have benefits, uh, towards
the, the master final and the Masters to
be qualified already in quarter final.
And to give you a. A bit more detail.
Um, so we do have money, price,
money, and then, and, um.
Ca one that, uh, people, they
come and, and compete for that.
So that's why we are attracting
players that they come from Spain.
They pay like, uh, 22 hours flight to,
to come compete and come back to Spain,
which is something quite, uh, attractive
that it's put in the level up here.
And, um, and yeah, ba basically.
It's interesting what we are doing because
it has this, um, ongoing, um, reputation
and ranking that they get motivated.
So am amateurs.
They have their own ranking
as well, and, uh, um, pro.
So, um, and we also have mixed category,
which is something that is not super
normal, but that here is kind of
successful, uh, because it gives, because
there's a. Still a big difference between
men and women participating in Asia.
So we are trying to balance it if we, uh,
include this, uh, mixed category, which
usually women are more proactive to play
before jumping into a female category.
That's super, super.
I mean, first of all, I want to
congratulate you because it's
so, so smart what you're doing.
Yeah.
Bringing the amateur level to play at the
same stadium or venue that the professor,
I mean, you get so, so much, so inspired.
For you to bring 400
people, I mean 200 couples.
I mean, that's huge.
Well, I mean,
they come and then their
family comes to watch them.
Yeah.
And they stay to, so it, it's
really smart on what you're doing.
How, how, how many tournaments
are there within a year?
How many tournaments accumulate
Yu.
So 2025, uh, we are expecting because,
um, we control the open app, meaning,
uh, the ones that we manage and
we, uh, take care of the swimming
and the referees and everything.
Uh, and this is gonna be around 20.
This year, 2025.
And then we are having, this year
we expect that 10 more, um, of
challenger, that we already have four.
So it's quite probable
that we will reach this.
So 30 events, uh, not everyone has to
access all but the pros, they, they
do have like, uh, yeah, really high,
um, assistance rate, I would say.
So maybe they come to 90%
of the, of the events.
When did, when did they start?
When was this?
Uh, um,
2023.
2023.
Wow.
And when you sold out, meaning that
you got sold out of all the players
or people watching the tournament?
No, no, no.
Uh, all the players, meaning we have,
um, depending on the courts that
we have, yeah, we, we have like a
top, because otherwise it happened
to us that we've been playing the
tournament, 4:00 AM and then, um, we
had to start 7:00 AM the next day.
So basically it was, okay, let's
take a beer and then let's wait
for tomorrow to, to start again.
Uh, so we are trying to limit
this in terms of assistance.
Um, it's getting better, so this is.
It takes time to build the community.
Um, here in K for example,
uh, Saturday and Sunday.
We had it full.
So the, the, the club was completely full.
And this is something that is gonna
happen 2026 that we will start setting up.
Uh, mobile courts stands around, uh,
so we can manage our own assistance.
Now we were basically doing this in clubs.
Um, so, so we have the space that
we have, we cannot decide much
how many in, how many countries
are you doing these 30 tournaments?
So this year we're gonna be in 14
different countries, um, all around Asia.
What
are, say again, sorry.
What are the countries?
The 14th,
let me, let me try to get the 14.
Um, so.
But I mean, the ones you, the ones that
you know, you know, top of your head.
Yeah.
So we've been in India, so I'll
tell you the ones we've been and
the ones I, I know we will be India,
Pakistan, Dubai, in this area.
We will do this three, uh, maybe
Saudi Arabia and, and Qatar this year.
This is not, uh, confirmed yet.
Uh, then come into this
area, China, Japan.
Um, Thailand, Philippine, Malaysia,
Singapore, Indonesia, Australia,
and I think should be around 12 or 13.
Yeah, around that.
And I think
one small one there.
Myanmar, Vietnam, Thailand.
You forgot Thailand.
Yeah, Thailand.
Vietnam.
We are going as well.
Um, Cambodia.
I don't know if this year
or the next is starting.
So yeah, basically I
would say most of them.
So it's easier to say the ones that
we are not going, uh, Bangladesh,
for example, and New Zealand this
year, still not mature enough.
But, um, yeah.
So how about, um, sponsors?
How about, um, big companies involving
themselves in this tournament?
Are you seeing that?
Um, super interesting as well because
this is key factor to make better growth.
So if there's no investment, uh, through
sponsors or brands interested, um, it
varies a lot, um, country to country.
So for example, in Malaysia's, good
Market, Jakarta is good market.
Uh.
Here in Malaysia we have a partner, which
is that I'm sure you know, uh, that they
sponsor some of our events, that they
are strong and betting a lot with Paddle.
But if we talk generally, we, we do
have global sponsors and, um, we've
got, um, betting company, which is uh,
which is another interesting thing.
I don't think it's that
easy to bet on Paddle.
And here in Asia you can through, in our
tournaments and it's called that alphabet.
And then we have the endemic brands.
Um, we have a super, uh, agreement with
Jona, uh, that they are betting a lot.
Um, and they are basically our official
racket clothing, um, and footwear.
Um, which is great.
And yeah, they are doing great job because
they, they managed to send a lot of, um.
T and so on to every single location.
That here is a challenge.
Logistically, uh, we have head as
a sponsor as well, so basically
an an in definition on that.
Um.
They are brands that they are being smart
enough to choose those markets because,
uh, taking the numbers that we spoke
before in terms of new clubs, uh, new,
um, players coming and needing to buy
rackets and so on, um, it's kind of key.
The ones that they are positioning
themselves, uh, in the market
and, and doing a big effort.
And you can see.
The feedback and, and the revenues coming.
And the good thing is you are position
in a market where the top of mind
is not the one that is structured in
Spain or in these, um, countries where
Bull Paddle, they've been there for
a lot of years and they did the job
Here, they come with transparent mind.
So they are happy to get to know new
brands that they are jumping into.
Into here.
Um, so there are big opportunities
and also I will say from the other
side with, um, outside paddle brands.
Why?
Because, um, our community, uh, at
least I'm talking about A PPT, but
generally, as you might know, usually
paddle enters in this, um, elite, um.
Part of the society.
So most of our clients, they are
politicians, um, actors, ex-football
players, uh, influencers that they,
they, they come, which is usually
nice because they have big exposure.
So when people see that they're playing
paddle, they, they really want to try
and to get to know more about paddle.
And this is another thing that
brands are, um, yeah, accepting
or seeing like, okay, I like being
associated to paddle because the.
Players, they are clients that they,
I would like to have, uh, but still so
many or long way to, to walk in this side
because, uh, I think it can be improved.
But, um, I think so far we cannot
regret and, and, and we are more
than, uh, grateful with this.
So, so you were saying, so
for the professional level
players, uh, two questions.
So how far is the level.
Compared to the, the Argentinians
or the Spaniards in the level
of the players in, in the Asia.
Uh, in Asia.
Yeah.
That's tricky question.
And, and basically the best thing I can do
is like our top 10 in, in the ranking, I
think out of 10, they are Spanish people.
Um, that they came, some of them, they
were coming from Spain, some of them,
they already sold their houses in
Spain and they came to live to to Asia.
Um, and, and we only have one Australian
and one Japanese in this top 10.
Um, so still far.
So
yeah.
And they make a living.
I mean, how much money a professional
paddle tour in Asia can make.
Like the player by like the prop player?
Yeah, so all of them, I will say
they also are coaches, so they work
in a club wherever they live, but
ela, so that, that's why all these
Spanish people, they are coming.
So they come one event to try and
to see what a PPT and the day after
they have, uh, an offer from a club.
So average, I will say they are making
the, the good ones, eh, so of course
it's a big range, but the good ones.
I will say from 5,000 to
12,000, uh, USD per month.
Range.
So, and you have to imagine that
these people, they are the top ones.
They are around a hundred in the
world, uh, as a ranking or they used
to play Premier paddle and and so on.
Um, and those ones in Spain
as a coach, maybe you can get
1,500, 2000, things like that.
So they are like multiplying by four
what they were making, uh, here in Nasia.
And they are really well recognized.
It's
pretty
much the
same here.
Yeah, same thing.
Incredible man.
So, so Carlos, tell us, you, you,
you, you're entrepreneurs, so
what other verticals do you have?
I, I'm sure this is taking a lot of, of
your time, but you said you are doing
other things, so why don't you tell us a
little bit what, what else you're doing?
Yeah, so basically our perspective
is, okay, um, how we can promote
paddle from our side, our
knowledge, our background in Asia.
So we are trying to listen the market.
So first thing that we listen, it
was, there's a lack of competition
that this is helping a lot in.
People getting motivated,
brands jumping into this.
So it's kind of key,
um, to have competition.
The second one was so many clubs
opening, so you cannot rely on
Spanish coaches coming and coach,
because we don't have enough or
Argentinians or Italians or Swedish.
Um, we need to create our
own coach or coaches here.
So that's why we, we created
something that is called, um, Asia
Pacific Paddle Academy, a PPA.
And, uh, what we do here is we try to
give the tools, um, to our target here
mainly is, uh, tennis coaches that they
want to jump to, paddle, uh, squash
coaches, uh, people that they know
paddle, but they want to start coaching.
And, um, they can come and, and
we do an intensive course and
we give them the tools online
also, um, to develop as coaches.
Um, and then we were trying to fix
this problem of lack of coaches.
Then another problem that we found out,
and that's why we had a partnership,
it's that when you investment, so we
want this to grow as much as possible.
So we saw that it was, um.
Conflict whenever they had to buy cords.
And, um, because if you manufacture
it from Spain, which is where is
the most recognized, uh, one you
need to pay a fair amount of money.
And of course we are in Asia where the
cheapest things are produced and, and
we can produce in, in volume and so on.
I mean, it was something that I had in
my mind, but it was missing the knowhow.
So basically there's, there's a company
called Olympia Courts that they brought,
uh, Spanish engineers and, and they
are living now in China, and they're
producing, um, same quality products
with the same logic that they used to
do in, in Spain, but, uh, at a smaller
cost, eh, smaller cost, meaning 40
to 50% discount of um, what, uh, is
a normal port, meaning that you can.
Take two courts instead of one.
And you like the quality's
not gonna suffer.
Um, that it was at the beginning, the
problem of the Chinese courts that they
had corrosion or they had problems, but
if you have the knowhow is, is easy.
And the, the fourth one, and I
think this is a super interesting
challenge that is happening through
the world, is about, uh, leveling.
Meaning you cannot get
the perfect engagement.
You know why you like this.
You will tell me
content, um, um, a
rating system, you know?
Yeah.
It, it's, it's, it's impossible.
The same thing is ING
in the United States.
What we talking about is exactly
the same thing happened here.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
So, so basically it's another thing
that we see that it's a problem
and no one is taking care and a
problem, meaning we have this.
Meaning when I go and I do a tournament
in Bali, I ask, what's your level?
And they answer, I'm gold when I go
to Philippines is I'm intermediate.
And when I go to Thailand, I'm a three.
So it's like, okay guys, you have no
idea, and this is gonna be problematic.
So as we've got the biggest database of
players and, and agreements through the
region, uh, we want to standardize this.
And, um, and it's the last thing
that, uh, we are building trying
to, to help at least to have this,
what's your aim?
How are, how are you gonna structure that?
How are you gonna do that?
Because it, I, I don't think
anybody's been able to figure it out.
So I'm really curious about
your thoughts on that.
So basically we are taking this
quite professionally, I would say,
meaning, um, we are taking the, the
logic, we are translating this to
an algorithm that is already done.
All this is treated as we fundraise
some, some money, um, to have
like enough lung to, to develop
and, and structure all this.
So we've been using
mathematicians and, and.
Ian, or Yeah, people like, they know
about, uh, numbers of how to structure
the algorithms and we've gave them
the, the, the logic behind, which
basically is, or trying to simplify
because this is quite a complex thing.
How, like who are you?
Who are you playing good with
and who are you playing against?
And all their data, uh, to be as
much objective as we can and we
are bringing all database, and
this is historical, uh, games of.
All the people that, uh, we have access
to, to this algorithm to feed it.
So this is like to simplify the most, is
if you have an amount of 15 games, I will
say you are able to predict quite well.
Which is the leveling of, um, this player.
And the more players you have,
the more accurate it's gonna be.
And, uh, that's why we
have a good starting point.
And then what we have to do is
standardize this through our, um,
tournaments, through our partners.
Meaning whenever you, uh, finish
your participation in an A-A-P-P-T.
This will be updated, so you will
know exactly if you earn some
points, you miss some points.
And, and where is your, uh, leveling,
uh, at the, at the moment and
yeah, it's basically on volume.
This is just based on people
participating in a PP, right?
So if you're not, no,
in, in any event that we recognize
or that is recognized by the
community so that it's more scalable.
So A PPT is a source of,
uh, giving information.
But any game that is recognized, meaning
if you play with your grandparents,
uh, in your house, this is not gonna
count, but if through the community,
it's like a peer to peer acceptance.
So if we have a player that we
recognize as a serious player and is
playing against you, then this, um.
Game is gonna be valid, even
if it's outside, uh, an event.
Of course, the events are
the most reliable ones.
Similar to what play is doing or is
what, what, what is the difference?
Yeah, kind of, kind of.
I mean, we are having all taking
into account in the implementation
things that they are, um, contextual
in, in, uh, in the market, in Asia.
Uh, and we are changing some
stuff in terms of the technology.
Uh, and this means pla Atomic is.
And actually we talked with
them to make this happen.
Um, but they were not really focused
and there was a big challenge.
And when I'm talking about the context
here is we are not talking about the US
where you have, um, yeah, standardized.
Payment methods and,
uh, legislation somehow.
So we are talking one
by one the countries.
So you have to take into consideration
how people pay in their clubs.
And in this one they pay in in cash.
In this one, they pay in a specific car.
In, in this one they pay with credit card.
So you have to adapt to each
one, which is a challenge.
And, um.
Yeah, ba basically, uh, it is kind
of same thing or same logic, but
adapted to this area and trying to
get some benefits because of the old
technology that Platonic is having,
because I think they created in 2005.
And this is, uh, creating some
limitations for them to manage in
terms of, um, yeah, how quick you can,
uh, book a course, things like that.
Um.
Because it's more unflexible.
So this nowadays is, uh, easier to
make, um, and to help players and
users to, to book meaning, uh, AI
implementation, this big searcher that
you can put, okay, do that for me.
And the system is doing more than
click, click, click, click, click.
But yours is only a leveling.
It's not a POS system
or anything like that.
It's just a leveling.
Core is the leveling, but to implement
this under one structure, if there's
also, um, software management and an
A PP, um, is compulsory to use this,
no, we can perfectly connect the
leveling to whatever you are using,
but if you don't have any, what's the
point of complicating a bit the system?
So this is also, um, possible
to have, but with the ultimate
goal of a standardizing leveling.
So he's asking more you guys take
payment, you know, do you guys
process there on, on that appeal?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You
do that because in a different currency?
Yeah.
All the currencies.
Yeah.
So this is the challenge that if,
if we do that with one single, um.
System or management system, then we are
tight because they don't want to adapt
to the currency in the rpi, in Indonesia
because it faces different challenges.
Uh, as well
work with one payment gateway
when each, each, each 14
countries, country, 14 countries.
Some of them you can use the same one,
but yeah, the, the challenge is there.
Yeah.
And what, and and do you have
many cash transactions in Asia?
A lot.
It depends the country as well.
Uh, so China for example, it
doesn't exist, uh, CAA anymore.
Um, but I will say Indonesia
is a market that, um.
They pay a lot in cash.
And those are things culturally,
meaning you cannot come and impose.
Now you're gonna pay on credit card.
Yeah.
If they do that, you
have to adapt what it is.
And of course, the, the, the
big ones, uh, play tos, math,
size, and so on, they cannot be.
Listening country.
What country?
What do you want?
What do you want?
No, I have like a monster to manage
and I have this in 90 countries.
I'm not gonna be asking you
small country, what do you want?
Yeah.
Uh, so that's the point.
Well, man, uh, I admire you for, so
basically you already passed the 1 million
flying miles in, in your airline, right?
And you spend two hours a day?
Pretty much.
No.
We've got a great team
that, that, that the key.
But, but the might.
Yes.
Eh, so I, I was calculating this first
six months of the year, I'm gonna take,
uh, 27 flights, which is like one flight.
It's.
Six days.
Yeah.
Are you, so, I'm,
you have No, I've got a girlfriend.
I've got a girlfriend that, uh, I
hope she doesn't hear this podcast.
So Carlos, so you have the, the
Asia Pacific, uh, paddle tour,
which I think is a brilliant idea.
Um, we congratulate you.
Now you have also the, you manufacture
paddle cords or you work with that
group, paddle cords, and also you have
technology, POS technology system.
Plus the academy, the coaching
coaches that I told you.
Talk about Academy.
How does that work?
Yeah.
So yeah, now like we are trying to focus
in these four, four lines, uh, as we see
that they are the most important to help.
You were asking about the academy?
Yeah.
Correct.
Yeah, so the Academy is kind of simple.
So we've got three levels.
Okay.
Level zero, one and two.
The most, or the one that we are, uh,
using the most is the L one, which
is the one I was telling you, is
focused for tennis coaches, squash
coaches, people that they know
about rack, but they really want to
professionalize and get more knowledge.
And we do it in two different ways.
10 people during three days, uh, with
one of our mentors and, uh, online,
uh, both things, uh, are the option and
we are having big success in all the
presidential, so, so we always sold out
wherever we go, we kind of have the same
countries that, uh, with a PPT, but I
think in this actually last weekend, we.
Did for the first time in South Korea
that we didn't mention because it's
kind, kind of new country in Paddle.
Uh, but I think with the A PPA, we've
been already in, in eight different
countries doing performing, um,
certifications and, um, yeah, basically
the target here because I guess,
you know, paddle MBAs and so on.
The target here is, again, same thing,
trying to be tailor made or as much
adapted as possible to the countries.
So.
We have big database of players,
people related with A PPT.
We've been able to identify the best
coaches in each country, I will say.
So they are under a PPA now, meaning
we have a Japanese that is performing
in Japanese, some certifications.
This guy, he's been coming with us and
with my partner, which is the head of
this project because, uh, he's a coach.
Um.
And basically, um, what we are trying
to do is do this in each single.
So we have another one in
Indonesia, we have another
one in Thailand, uh, in China.
Uh, what we are trying to is that you as a
tennis coach, you don't need to go through
Spanish or English to be able to become
a good path coach because then we are.
Putting a roof or stopper in
developmental paddle, um, which is
forcing you to learn a new language.
Japan, China is not normal
to speak English, so yeah,
that's our goal in this A PPA.
And then the L zero is
more focused on everyone.
So here it's more online, meaning if
you need to learn how EB is and to have
some feedback, uh, you can, you can
do it through the L zero, and then you
can jump into one of the four per year.
Uh, presidential, uh,
certifications that we do.
And then the L two is to target a
step, a step over a normal coach.
It's more focused on head coach
people that they need to manage
coaches or at academy or they
are managing different clubs.
Um, it's more to know
how to manage, uh, yeah.
An academy in a club.
Yeah.
So
basically the L zero is level zero, which
is for basic, learn the basics of power.
Someone loves paddle and
they wanna learn the basics.
Yeah.
The LL one, it's more for a tennis
coach, squash coach that wants to
move into the paddle transition.
And how much is that process?
I mean, I gotta, I gotta go for
three days how much it will cost me.
And then what is the online part of it?
How's that work?
Okay, super.
Um, so super straightforward.
I mean, it's slightly different in
depending which country because in
Singapore is way more expensive and
in India it's a bit cheaper, but
average, um, it's uh, 4 9 9 USD.
Uh, the cost of.
All included, uh, meaning you have
like a small theory online that
you need to read or watch before
the presidential certification,
and at three days intensive, uh,
certification, then this doesn't imply
that you get a diploma straight away.
If you sign up.
Then if you really want to be
certified, and this means a
PPA puts your name, the name.
Next to your name.
So you can go to any club
and say, I'm certified.
You need to do 50 hours of, uh,
coaching that they are signed,
uh, and, and things like that.
But in terms of the knowledge, like
sharing the knowledge is these three days.
Um, and, and then if you want to
go deeper that this is quite deep
already, so we enter into details,
but if you want to expand a bit
more, then you jump into the L two
and how, ma, how many hours
is each day, those three days?
Woo.
Good question.
Because it depends a bit.
I know in total they are 16 hours of
court, but maybe they are 14 hours of,
uh, out of the court explain some stuff.
So maybe 10 hours per day.
So they are pretty
intense, uh, ones, yeah.
Oh,
so, and it's $500.
And then what, what is the online portion?
Is there an online portion?
Is that included in there?
Or?
Yeah.
So it's representing, yeah, yeah.
It's included in that and 50%,
uh, 15%, something like that.
20%. Uh, but we are developing a full,
uh, L one online, so you don't need
to go presently because there are some
people that it's difficult to access
and so on, that it will be cheaper.
And this is under
construction, I will say.
And Carlos, one of the issues that, that
we see here, it's, it's the feeding part.
You know what I mean?
A coach, the feeding is, even though if
you're coming from tennis or squash, it's
a completely different type of feeding.
How do you qual qualify them?
The, the new coach to, to good feeding?
Is there a process or something like that?
Okay.
That's two technical question
for me, to be honest.
Uh, meaning I cannot give you any clue.
I know it's a, it is a strong part of it.
Uh, because some, or I would say big,
um, number of the, the ones come in is
the most challenging thing that they
need to learn, uh, at the beginning.
So.
I know that we take care, um,
a big part of the time on that.
Uh, but actually, I dunno, which
are the advices that they are, they
are giving, um, but is good or what?
I'm relaxed not knowing exactly
this is that what we are trying to
have is not people that they learned
yesterday how to coach paddles.
So, so my partner, they, he, he's
been doing this for 15 years and,
and the ones, even the Japanese
or the, uh, ones in China.
Usually they are not new players, meaning
the Japanese, I think he's been doing this
co tennis coach at the beginning and then
since, uh, 10 years ago, paddle coach.
The other one in China, for example,
is a Colombian guy that he's been
living, uh, I think in Spain.
And he's been, uh, teaching
paddle for a long time.
And um, now he speaks Chinese and it's
perfect because we allow this, uh.
To be done in Chinese, but uh,
we have this strong background
so they know what they do.
I dunno.
Exactly, because I'm not good
player, so I, I wouldn't even
know how to fit the ball.
Uh, so I cannot explain to you.
Well, Carlos, I mean, is there anything
else that you, you wanna talk about?
I mean, it is, this was, uh, super
exciting for us to have you here a lot.
We learn a lot.
Is there anything that, anything
else that you want to talk about, any
other entrepreneurial adventure that
you're planning or having in Asia?
Yeah, I would like to actually sit
down and take a couple of beers
with you and ask you also a lot of
stuff this I would love to do, but I
think we don't have the time for it.
When you told me that you came
to Rocket X it would be great.
Yeah.
I mean, we were there interviewing
people left and right or they
have you come in our studio.
Yeah.
Too bad, so I'm not
saying I'm coming again.
So we, we can, we can arrange another one.
And, and I would like to throw, um, rock,
uh, or like a stone, um, because actually
I learned it when I was there in Miami.
So I was meeting with, uh, actually
I'm playing paddle with, uh, Gabrielle,
uh, which is the, the owner of
tactical and, uh, with Chris, uh,
Chris that, um, he's also like.
I was getting this, um, fund
thing, meaning, uh, okay.
I gather some money from, from people
and then we invest to, to get some
profitability and it, it was funny
because I was talking with some people,
investing in class and so on, and they
were telling me, yeah, yeah, my, my.
Stay back or when, when I want
to recover the investment.
I'm thinking between five to
eight years, things like that.
And I was thinking in my mind, really,
so if you, and actually one of those
conversations, I was with a client
that he's from India and he was in
the same conversation hearing the
same thing and he said, yeah, me,
I recovered in eight months mine.
And, and I know that the ones
in Jakarta and people that I am
related to every day here in kl.
They're getting these paybacks less,
like if it's more than one year, they
are like a kind of, we shouldn't do that.
Why?
Labor cost is way cheaper.
Investment, um, is way lower here.
And, and, and still the rates
that people are paying in the,
in the court, uh, is way bigger
than, than Spain and, and so on.
So this, uh, stretches you
a lot, um, the investment.
So yeah, I was thinking.
So
the question to you is this, so
you said something very important.
So the investment is
lower, labor cost is lower.
So I'm, I'm sure the rent, the, the
leases and all that are less expensive.
So your return investment
is much quicker than that.
So how much do they charge for a lesson
or how much do they charge in average
for a paddle court?
I'd love to see a deck.
If you have a business deck or
something you could send us.
Yeah, so, so.
Probably
No.
No.
And that's the reality.
So if you give me, send me a a million
uh, USD after this conversation.
I think I'm closer to have the best
profitability on this million in paddle,
um, in, in the world right now because of
the market, I'm not because I'm smarter
than, smarter than, uh, than others.
What you are asking about
this is like changes a lot.
So in Vietnam, I will say is one of
the cheapest ones, but is it still
more expensive than, than in Spain?
Uh, but in, in, um, in Singapore,
I think only one hour class
is $200, uh, which is a lot.
Singapore is the most expensive
by far, but everything in between.
So I will say like paying $60, uh,
every time that you play something like
that, I would say can be the average.
Yeah, 50 to $60, which is a lot
like compared with the salary.
So you can see a salary in average,
Indonesian is $200 per month.
So how you are gonna pay
like, uh, 25% of that in?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, that's crazy.
So that's why it's only accessible
to, uh, people with purchasing power,
which is another thing that I learned a
lot of rich people in those countries.
So maybe from far we can see like, okay,
undeveloped countries series the future.
How much will be to, to buy a, a cord,
uh, that wants, uh, I mean here a,
a accord will cost you 40, $50,000.
You say that your cord will
be 50% less, 20, $25,000?
Uh, no.
No, no.
Way less.
Uh, so I think the most expensive
one is around 20,000, and you
can buy from, uh, 13, 15,000.
Yeah.
Every installation and all that, right?
Mm-hmm.
Real
estate per square foot cost.
So is is it less there?
I mean, are you typically here you're
basing what you're gonna charge per
hour and a half or hour, uh, based on
the, the real estate cost, you know,
is that still apply there or is the
real estate cost very low and you're
applying the cost to base based on,
on the mar, on the market of people
that you have the affluent people?
So this also tricky because it de
it depends a lot, uh, the area.
Yeah.
But yeah, also lease or here
it hap it's happening also.
Ones that they are investing or the, the
ones that they, they are promoting, they,
they are owner, uh, like land owners.
So it's basically, okay, I don't know
what to do with this piece of land.
Let's put some paddle cord.
So this is reducing a lot and making a
good margin, but even when they lease,
it's, it's still, uh, way cheaper.
So way easier to make it profitable.
Of course, there are cases from all the
things, but uh, if you take the right, um.
Yeah.
Point or opportunity, then it's, uh,
super profitable on that and yeah.
With court.
Yeah.
Compare with the 45 that you told me.
Yeah.
30 is like, you pay a 70% discount,
uh, from, from this rate in this area.
Yeah.
You know, I mean it's, uh.
It's four or five years
if you're lucky to get,
if you're lucky.
I mean, and we see very few of those.
It's more like that.
Yeah.
And this is something that
impressed me when I was in Miami.
So I thought, wow.
I mean, it's making so much noise
and I love it, and I thought so many
things to learn of, uh, how you're
attracting best players and and so on.
But, um, I thought it was difficult
to make this profitable and it was
challenging, um, to, to make this happen.
So yeah, basically I.
It's a challenge to face.
All right.
Congratulations, Carlos, with all success.