Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

How to communicate clearly in any context, from newsrooms to the world stage.

All good communication, whether spoken or written, is built on the same foundation. In everything from police reporting for a newspaper to serving as spokesman for the Pope, Greg Burke has found the key: "Keep it as simple as possible."
Burke has worked as a journalist for Time Magazine and Fox News, as Director of Communications at IESE Business School in Barcelona and Madrid, and even as a communications advisor and spokesman for the Vatican. Across his varied experiences, he’s found that the biggest communication challenges often require the simplest solutions. From expressing “curiosity and real interest” in those we’re speaking with to ensuring our messages are “clear, consistent, and timely,” he advocates for core principles that apply in all types of communication.
In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Burke and host Matt Abrahams discuss communication strategies that work whether you’re presenting to a team of five or millions of parishioners worldwide. As Burke shares, it’s all very simple: “Know your audience, practice, and have fun.”

To listen to the extended Deep Thinks version of this episode, please visit FasterSmarter.io/premium

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (02:28) - Asking Good Questions
  • (03:28) - Writing Clearly and Concretely
  • (05:07) - Editing and AI’s Role in Writing
  • (06:23) - Three Keys to Great Communication
  • (08:12) - The Importance of Feedback
  • (09:52) - Communication at the Vatican
  • (12:36) - Crisis Communication: Lessons from the Vatican
  • (15:38) - The Final Three Questions
  • (22:23) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Greg Burke
Journalist | Management Lecturer| Former Advisor for the Vatican

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.
Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Sometimes the biggest
communication challenges can be

addressed with the simplest of ideas.

My name is Matt Abrahams and I
teach strategic communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I am excited to speak
with my friend Greg Burke.

Greg worked in a variety of
media, newspapers, magazines, wire

services, and television, including
for Time Magazine and Fox News.

He also worked in
communications at the Vatican.

He did strategic communication
for Pope Benedict and was the

spokesperson for Pope Francis.

Greg is normally shuttling between
Madrid and Barcelona, where he

teaches public speaking in crisis
communication at IESE Business school.

He's currently a fellow in
the Distinguished Careers

Institute at Stanford.

Welcome, Greg.

You and I have had lots of
fun conversations in the past,

and I'm glad to have those
conversations now on the podcast.

Thanks for being here.

Greg Burke: It's great to be here.

I've been a big fan of the podcast.

Matt Abrahams: You started your career
as a reporter, and I'm curious to

get your thoughts on how to ask good
questions and how to help people feel

at ease answering those questions.

Greg Burke: Interesting.

I'm not sure they teach you that
when you study journalism, but I

actually learned that from my father.

My father, he wasn't a reporter, he was a
pediatrician, but he was genuinely curious

about people, places, and how things
work, and never afraid to ask questions.

So I think actually the key thing
is that curiosity and real interest.

If you ask an open-ended question
to somebody about their job, about

how that works, they'll open up.

Let them speak, is
another important thing.

I think my father was very good at that.

He was unassuming, he wasn't
aggressive, and let them speak.

Matt Abrahams: So I think this idea of,
I do think curiosity and generosity.

Generosity in terms of giving
people the space to speak and a

good reporter gives that space.

Greg Burke: It is amazing what people will
tell you when you give 'em the chance.

Matt Abrahams: That's right.

And if you are gracious enough to give
them the time to do it and then ask more

questions, I think makes a lot of sense.

You started in the written word as a
journalist who would write articles.

I'm curious, what best practices
did you end up taking away from

that, that you could share about
how to write clearly and concisely?

A lot of us struggle with that.

Greg Burke: Yeah, really interesting.

And I feel very lucky about
my first couple of jobs.

My first job was a police reporter
outside of New York City, small paper,

but it's better to make your mistakes at
a small paper, Port Chester, New York.

And I think the thing I learned
there was get your facts straight.

It may sound really
simple, but not always.

They, there are different spellings
to names which sound the same.

And when you're a police reporter,
you wanna get the name right,

you know, you're talking about
somebody getting a DUI or worse.

And much more importantly, my
second job was at a wire service,

United Press International.

And it was loads of deadlines.

And so just throwing stuff
at you, write it, get it out.

And I think the lesson there for everybody
is, I don't wanna say there is no such

thing as writer's block, but you don't
have the luxury of a writer's block.

And don't let you're looking
for perfection ruin your

chance to do good writing.

Get something down on paper, set
a deadline for yourself, get it

down, and then you'll fix it up.

I think that's extremely important.

Then you can keep getting it more concise,
getting it clearer, but get it down, get

started, and that's a really big help.

Matt Abrahams: I have to admit,
I am a very nervous writer.

I would much rather speak than write.

It is really painful for me to write,
and I think part of it is what you

talked about, that notion of perfection.

I want it to be right.

It feels to me more permanent than when I
speak something, even though I'm speaking

to video, that lasts a long time too.

So detail, be detail oriented.

Make sure you get the facts right.

Make sure that you just get started.

And what I heard you say at
the end of that answer was this

notion of you can fix it later.

So I assume editing and review is
an important part of the process.

Greg Burke: There's a load of that,
and I think this is true for writing

and, and also for oral presentations.

You know, you can video yourself
if you have a presentation, then

look at it and say, okay, I'm gonna
change this and this and this.

Editing, I think, is key.

Matt Abrahams: I'd like to dig a little
deeper because both of those bits of

advice that you talked about, artificial
intelligence, AI can help us with.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on AI
and its impact on written communication.

Greg Burke: My thoughts from AI have
gotten mostly from one of our colleagues

here at Stanford, Rachel Konrad.

I, I think she has a very good
read on AI, which is, AI is like

having a whole load of interns.

They can deliver good things,
which you have to put together.

The voice has to be yours.

The point of view has to be yours.

I think that's a perfect
description of AI.

Yes, many good things
they're putting on the table.

You still have to set the table.

You have to put it together.

Matt Abrahams: Right.

Your own personal voice has to come
out and the connection you can have.

Like me, you have the good
fortune of teaching at a world

renowned business school, IESE.

And I'd love to know a bit about the
lessons that you teach your students.

Can you share with us two big lessons
that you try to instill regarding

communication to your students?

Greg Burke: Yeah.

One of my three is grab them at the start.

And that's true if you're
writing or if you're speaking.

If you're speaking in front of a crowd and
you say, can everyone hear me all right?

Or if you say, oh, I'm nervous, 'cause
I don't normally speak in front of

this many people, people are gonna
be searching for their phone, they're

gonna be looking at, what's the
weather gonna be like this weekend?

I'm supposed to play golf.

Whereas if you say, think about your most
embarrassing moment in your life, people

are probably gonna start thinking that,
and you can up the ante say, okay, do you

think you could win if we had a contest
here in this room now, and whatever.

But grab them at the start.

Then what I would say with your
main points is punch and pause.

Make your point, and let it sink in.

I think of people, especially when
they're beginning, they don't use the

silence enough in public speaking.

And then the third point is really
not about the content but the process.

Get feedback.

Get feedback from your colleagues, get
feedback from the kind of people who

would be in the audience or who would
know what the audience is gonna be like.

And I think that's so helpful.

And we see that at IESE all the time.

We have the big lecture classes.

We do a bootcamp, uh, public speaking
bootcamp at the beginning of the MBA

and the lecture classes are seventy
students, but then we do smaller

groups of eight or nine or ten.

And in those, I find it fascinating
every time things that the students

pick up on that I don't necessarily get.

And that's like you really learn
from that kind of feedback.

Matt Abrahams: Feedback is so
critical in all communication.

Most of us are so busy doing what we
do, and we have all these other demands

that we just get it out and we don't
take the time to get that feedback.

And as you just implied, we
are not the best judges of

how our information will land.

Greg Burke: Yeah, there are
a lot of examples of that.

I think most of us think about
it when it's quite important.

But I think there are a number of
important things you have to look at.

It might just be an email, but a
sensitive email at work because you

are angry, something happened, you
feel like you suffered some sort

of injustice one thing or another.

Well, be careful about sending
that off in the first five minutes.

I think the twenty-four hour
rule is good on that one.

And even a better rule is somebody
wise and with experience look at

that and say, is that the right tone?

Is that what I wanna say?

And sometimes you have to
write really tough things.

That's part of nature
and that's part of life.

But I think your point is well taken.

Too often we, oh, gotta get
it out, gotta get it out.

And we don't ask that feedback.

Doesn't take a whole lot of effort.

Matt Abrahams: My colleagues and my wife
are my editors in chief, and they help

give me perspective on the things that
I speak and the things that I write.

I really like that idea of parachute
in, get engagement at the start.

I believe attention is our most
precious commodity, and if I

can't get your attention, I
can't engage you and enlist you.

So finding a way to start, asking
a provocative question, telling a

compelling story, giving a startling
statistic, those are all ways.

I really appreciate that advice.

And I'm gonna take from you, maybe
even steal from you, the notion of

punch and pause, because a lot of
people feel like I just gotta give

all the points out all at once.

And you have to give that moment
to let people sink in and process.

And I like that idea of punch and pause.

You've got lots of valuable advice
to share with everybody, but I

really want to talk about one
particular experience you had.

So you served in the Vatican where
you led strategic communication

for Pope Benedict and you were
the spokesperson for Pope Francis.

Not typical jobs most people have.

Before I ask you about some specifics,
can you give us insight into what your

job was and any guiding principles
that you followed to make sure your

messages were clear and consistent?

Greg Burke: I would say
clear, consistent, and timely.

When I was brought into the Vatican,
that was 2012, it was a time when

there were leaks of documents.

It was a sensitive period, and
I think where the Vatican was

often caught on the back foot.

I think I was brought in to try to help it
become a clear and a consistent message.

And a timely message, which is often
not the Vatican's strong point because

the institution's been around for
two thousand years and doesn't think

the same way a startup here thinks.

Like we have to be in this and do this
now and react to this immediately,

or the way a political party or
a government necessarily thinks.

It's got the ultimate long
view of history, right?

Now, having said that, I do remember
somebody just when I arrived and he

pointed out something interesting to me,
about the difficulty in an institution

as, as broad as it is, of always being
on message, believe as Pope Benedict

was making a trip to the United States.

He said, I remember he told me, there
were three or four different sort of top

level Vatican people who were interviewed
about the trip and talked about it,

and they all said good things, but they
all said different things, which was

interesting because I thought, wow, how
different from a political machine where,

here's the message, we stick to it.

Having said that, one of my main points
was just, let's stay out of the weeds.

Let's keep it as simple as possible.

Twitter and actually Instagram
were good ways to do that.

And we've talked about how
they were easy means to deliver

a simple message directly.

I always said, you Pope Francis
had a pretty simple message.

God loves you.

God forgives you, share the
love, you know, and I, let's

work on variations of that.

Matt Abrahams: This idea of simplicity,
I think is really important.

A lot of us add a lot of complexity
to what we say, in some cases,

just to show we're really smart.

In other cases, because the issues
we're talking about have lots of

nuance and detail, but getting
one crisp, clear, simple idea, at

first, I think is really important.

It sounds like that's a lot of
what you help do is bring that

simplicity and consistency.

Greg Burke: Smart people normally like
showing how smart they are, right?

We'd have old fashioned press conferences
and people would read really long

statements, and I'm like, that's not the
way we're transmitting things today, and

we're always trying to cut that down.

Matt Abrahams: In your many
roles that you've had, certainly

at the Vatican, you've had to
deal with challenges in crises.

You've talked about
the leak that happened.

Can you share a story or two about
crises that you've had to manage and

help us understand perhaps some best
practices we can employ when we find

ourselves in challenging situations?

Greg Burke: Yeah.

I think this started long before I got
there, but the biggest crisis has really

been one of the biggest crisis in the
Catholic Church for hundreds of years, was

a sex abuse crisis, which blew up in 2002.

I think one of the key things is being
willing to admit you've made mistakes.

And people don't like doing that, in
companies and churches, in organizations,

in nonprofits, in, in whatever.

And I was always impressed, Pope
Benedict wrote a letter to the people

of Ireland and was really hit hard
by the crisis, by the change in the

times, and he basically said, I totally
understand if you never wanna cross

through the doors of a church again.

And I thought that was incredibly
noble of him and the right thing to do.

And, and that, that is a
lesson because that's not easy.

I think that's not easy and people
look for ways to go around it.

He was also asked, Pope Benedict was asked
a question one time in, uh, the interview,

don't you think people take advantage
of the crisis to attack the church?

And his answers were always
very measured, reasonable.

And he said, perhaps, but to the extent
that the charges are true in any of these

cases, it's good they come to light.

And that was just an amazing admission of
we're not afraid of the truth, and I think

that's incredibly important and a lesson.

So those were some challenges.

On a positive side, I'll
tell you an interesting one.

Pope Francis wrote a document
called Laudato Si’ on the

Environment, believe it was 2015.

It's called an Encyclical, which is
a Vatican name for a long document.

It was interesting, it will come as no
surprise to anybody that most people

don't read a hundred page document coming
out from their church, and certainly

not most of the faithful and maybe
even others in leadership positions.

And so it's very interesting, the one
thing we did, I got the help with some wiz

kid who could really put things together,
and I think I gave him five days.

And I said, I'm gonna come up with ten
points from a hundred page document.

I need you to put it into a five minute
video and we're gonna do these points

in Italian, in English, and in Spanish,
so at least cover half the world.

And in the end, I think we only had
space for seven of the points, but,

and the video lasted six minutes, not
five, but I think it was a great new

way to get out an important message.

It wasn't easy, but how do you take
a hundred page document and get your

six or eight key points outta there?

And I think we come back to the editing
thing, separating wheat from chaff.

And when you're writing,
sometimes we're attracted to

this just because we wrote it.

And it's interesting
what you can learn there.

I think it's Stephen King
who says, kill your darlings.

You know?

I mean, when you're too attached
to something, watch out.

Show it to somebody, get some feedback,
but that's a great process to learn.

Matt Abrahams: I appreciate that
when I asked you about crises,

you gave a positive and one
that was certainly negative.

And the take home message I think that
I heard was one, acknowledge it, take

responsibility, allow for the discussion
and discourse that happens as a result.

And then from the positive example you
gave around the environment, it's really

finding ways to highlight the significant
important points and then find the channel

that's appropriate for delivering it.

So Greg, before we end, I
like to ask three questions.

One I create just for you and
the other two I ask everybody.

Are you ready for this?

Greg Burke: My moments arrived.

Matt Abrahams: So, because I know you, I
know that one of your passions is playing

golf, and how has having an outlet like
golf been helpful to your communication?

And how has your experience handling
challenging situations helped you in golf?

I can imagine a calmness,
a focus is helpful.

Greg Burke: I'll tell you one
thing, golf allows you time

away from your phone, right?

As as someone told me, I'm aging myself
and I had a friend in television and he

said, oh, you gotta start playing golf.

You only have to look at your
Blackberry every three or four holes.

So I should be a better golfer 'cause
that is more or less when I started.

But I think actually, I think
this is incredibly important

for connecting with people.

You can play golf by yourself, but
connecting with people, the less

you have your earbuds in and the
less you're looking at your phone,

the more you're establishing human
contact, and that's fantastic.

And then I think the other funny
thing about golf and all this

is just you have to have a sense
of humor because golf is tough.

I mean, it can be incredibly frustrating.

I think it's key that you maintain
that sort of approach to it

where, hey, I have to have fun.

In terms of public speaking when people
are nervous have this incredible fear

of public speaking, I always tell
them, listen, it's not like golf.

You can actually get better at it.

And that's true.

We've all seen it.

Matt Abrahams: Right.

That's an important point for all of us.

It doesn't have to be golf,
but some physical activity.

I know you like to hike.

I like to do martial arts.

It could be playing a musical instrument.

In all of those cases you're learning
and developing a skill through practice.

I mean, when I take a golf swing, I have
immediate feedback of what I did right

or wrong, 'cause I, I'm always looking
where it went, it doesn't go straight.

But the idea is that we have these
opportunities in our lives where

we work hard to learn something
and we can apply those same skills

and practices to our communication.

And point well taken that it gives
you a way to connect to people and

it gets you off your devices so you
can connect in a real personal way.

Question number two, and you have
been around a lot of interesting

communicators, who is a communicator
that you admire and why?

Greg Burke: My guy will surprise you,
he's, but, but he'll be a sign of hope

for a lot of people because he dropped
outta college because he was too timid,

he was afraid to speak too much in
public, and he's the head of a charity.

I help out with a charity called
Mary's Meals, Magnus McFarland.

Great big Scottish guy who, salmon farmer,
twenty years ago said, the best thing I

can do with my life is feed really poor
kids and really poor countries, giving

them one good meal a day at school.

And he's now doing that, feeding more
than two and a half million every day.

And he has to give speeches all the
time, which is pretty interesting.

And I think he's the embodiment
of something I learned long ago,

which if you care, they'll care.

And you hear him speak and he is so
passionate about it, that you care too.

I think in terms of being
a, a, an effective speaker,

he is incredibly effective.

Matt Abrahams: If you care, they care.

The contagion of your emotion
and passion is so true.

Final question, Greg.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

Greg Burke: Okay, my first two
aren't gonna be a surprise.

My third might be a
surprise for you, might not.

Know your audience, and know
your audience well enough to

make them smile, is what I say.

Second is practice.

Now by practice I also mean, if it's an
oral presentation, do a video of yourself.

Look at it.

Have someone else look at it.

If it's written, edit it, cut it down.

Never go over the time.

Never go over the time.

How many times have we done that?

So edit there.

And we talked before about it,
part of that practice is feedback.

You wanna show it to one or two people or
three, they, depending on the importance

of the thing, but I think anything of
moderate importance, you wanna bounce it

off one of your friends or colleagues.

And the third, which may or
may not surprise you, have fun.

Again, if it's a eulogy at a
funeral, you might not wanna have

fun, although sometimes those
remember really nice moments as well.

But I think overall, I have fun for
anybody who is afraid to get up in front

of a group, and there are a lot of people.

Just remember this, you've already
learned how to ride the bicycle.

Now it's just how fast you wanna
go, how far you wanna go, and

that's incredibly important.

Again, people are rooting for you.

They're not against you.

Almost all the cases, when
we're getting up in front of a

crowd, they want us to do well.

They want us to succeed.

So have fun.

Make 'em smile.

If you can make 'em laugh.

Matt Abrahams: Bringing levity
to communication can make

a, a tremendous difference.

Know your audience.

Something we've talked a lot about.

Practice, especially practice,
and getting feedback on it.

And then having fun, being present,
bringing levity, really important.

You helped us have some fun.

You certainly brought a smile to
my face and you gave us some good

clean takeaways that we can all
leverage to be clear, concise,

and engaging in our communication.

Thank you.

This was wonderful.

Greg Burke: Thanks a lot.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about crisis
communication, please listen to

episode 22 with David David Demarest.

This episode was produced by Ryan
Campos and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With thanks to the Podium Podcast Company.

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