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All things Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). A breakdown of all that's happening in the world of AI search.
Okay. We are live. Simon, how are you doing, sir? Good to see you again on this hot Friday afternoon.
Simon Young:Well, see, it's not hot here. I don't know what it where it is where it is. What it is like where you are.
Paris Childress:It is
Simon Young:quite chilly here.
Paris Childress:Yeah. Well, it's 36 degrees in Sofia, Bulgaria at the moment.
Simon Young:Wow. Okay. Yeah. No. We're we're sort of a mild 20 ish.
Paris Childress:Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Yeah. This is probably it's gotta be the hottest day of the year. I think most of Southern Europe is, experiencing the same the same stuff.
Simon Young:But we're gonna have El Nino next time we so we're all gonna get flooded this winter apparently but we'll see. Yeah yeah work wise work wise let's
Paris Childress:get into it Simon really really cool Yet I'll just set the stage for today because we we have a tantalizing topic I I finally drop the term the marketing term of the year probably which is called AI slop and our goal today is to try to discuss how to avoid getting AISlop and we're now of course in a world where the watermarks are coming or they're already actually Google has already had their watermark for a long time like nobody even paid attention to that. But anthropics watermark is coming and people are now really worried that I'm going to get penalized for AI slop and how do I do things the right way and how do I still generate content knowing that I need AI to help me because I mean I'd be at a big disadvantage if I didn't use AI at all. But but I don't want to go down the I don't want to get that the I slop label. So that's that's what we're going to talk about today and Simon, do you have any thoughts on that at a high level?
Simon Young:Well, it, yeah, obviously, it's the it's the buzzword of the of the month, month, quarter, I don't know. It moves so quickly now in in the AI space but I sat in a meeting last week with a board of people and talked about AI slop, and then they all started laughing because it was it was they'd all been chatting about it. So it's always it's always everybody's talking slot. The problem problem fundamentally people are lazy. So as you know, well, most marketing departments or nearly all marketing departments were probably generating a great deal of their content using any of any of the engines.
Simon Young:And it's so easy to get lazy. Right? Well, the trade off is I can make tons of content. Okay? But is that all getting ignored is the question I think we face.
Paris Childress:Yeah. Yeah. Think that AI slop in my my definition of AI slop is anything that is derivative content that is derived just derived from Internet research. And the reason that it I say that is because if if you produce a piece of content and then you read through that and you say well chat GPT or or Claude could have produced something just as good or better if I had just given it the topic and said go out and research this topic and create a piece of content on this topic it will go out and it'll it'll pull in sources and it will synthesize the information in a brilliant way but effectively there's no there's no unique information gain there's no really unique perspective it's everything it's it's been pulled from the internet so it's derivative and anytime that I'd say to me that's the that's the real litmus test for AI slop is if it's derivative, it's based on internet research that you've done or that your tool of your AI tool of choice has done. That means that if AI can do it on its own it will do it on its own and it will provide that answer on its own and it won't cite anybody because it's already it's already pre trained all that knowledge already.
Paris Childress:Our goal is to give the AI new pre training data. I information game so that it's no longer derivative that the content is no longer derivative, but it actually contains net new knowledge for for the for the AI. In my opinion, even if that content is generated or assisted with AI, but it is high information gain and it's derived, it's grounded in proprietary brand knowledge sources, then I think it's safe. I think it's totally safe and not only safe, but I think it's going to succeed actually.
Simon Young:Well, my, yeah, my question around that, and I don't necessarily know the answer to this is, and it's probably something that a lot of people want to know, if I do the research in chat GPT and it comes back with a great piece of information, the benefit of using the AI is obviously it can expand you into other areas in a topic that you may well not have thought about, even talking about. Far does somebody have to go to add information into something like that, or rewrite it to make it unique enough that it is then not you know, just slot. Right? It's it's it's a lot of people will just copy and paste. I called somebody out on LinkedIn about it.
Simon Young:He's a he's a PR PR agency. Talks a lot about not writing AI slots. And then one of his posts blatantly is written by AI. Like, you know, there's no spacing in it. The paragraphs aren't placed correctly.
Simon Young:You can see the embashes, etcetera, etcetera, right? To the trained eye, you can tell that that is AI. And for somebody who's preaching, don't use it. Maybe it was sarcastic, right? I'm gonna post it and see whether people call me out on it.
Simon Young:But the question is, how far or how much do you think you have to edit that content or reorder or play with it to make it sufficiently different?
Paris Childress:Yeah, I think it's in a very interesting point that you raise. Don't I don't have a great answer for you Simon. I think also that it matters the length of the content matters. A social media post is a very, very short form blog. You have blog posts and other longer form stuff.
Paris Childress:I think that where it gets the most egregious for the platforms themselves is with short form content. So if you have a simple idea that you want to communicate in a LinkedIn post and probably LinkedIn would prefer that you just write that in your own words because it's relatively short anyway instead of having it written in a very polished way by AI and then and then copy pasting it. If it's longer form content, let's just say, I don't know, 2,000, 3,000 word research article. I I think that it's much more acceptable to lean lean on AI a whole lot more for that because that there's just a whole lot of writing that has to get done and the words need to get on the page and as long as if you still bring your unique research and your your unique thoughts and perspectives and opinions and that is still reflected in the content but you did use AI to just help you to get the words on the paper, you know, to to speed things up a lot and you're still going to edit that and and proofread it. To me, that is totally above board.
Paris Childress:I mean, I I really don't see why anyone should find fault or when whether a platform should penalize a long form piece of content that goes through that process. I do think it matters with the length a little bit.
Simon Young:You've obviously got the There is even an AI slot button on LinkedIn now, so you can supposedly report posts, you know. But whether people are using that much, I don't know. I think that was just a marketing gimmick from LinkedIn to get people excited about the fact that we can try and push back against it. I've even seen people seen people talking around the fact that, well, let's deliberately put spelling mistakes into our work because then it can't be AI. I'm like, wow.
Simon Young:Are you really gonna do that? Gonna do that?
Paris Childress:Or maybe You're gonna intentionally degrade your content.
Simon Young:Or maybe you go to one you go to chat GPT, you get it to write the initial draft, then you take that draft over to Gemini, and then you get to rewrite it. And then you get that into Claude and try and get it to say, right, can you combine these three pieces into a unique piece, right? How far do you wanna take this before you know whether it is or isn't getting flagged and and I think in imagery imagery, it might be more important. So I was talking to Claude about this this morning for the Stitch projects that we're running. And Claude actually said to me, the more egregious penalty at the moment is against images rather than written content.
Simon Young:Right? So I think they are very worried about a lot of the social platforms coming to look very similar. I'm seeing loads of posts that you can just tell that's a chord. You know, that's a chord image, right? You can see the people who are using it.
Simon Young:Brands can be very similar. People don't necessarily use different fonts or or say to Claude, you know, can you please give me something that's standing stands out differently to standard content, right? Or the stitch project itself, I was trying to build some imagery build some imagery and you know, I think we'll probably go on to talk about this little piece that I've done that I've done. Yeah. But when you're presenting your brand, obviously, you've got your brand guidelines, your fonts, your colors, all of that sort of thing, tone of voice.
Simon Young:Everything's going into presenting how you put forward, example, a social media post or a blog header or a thumbnail for a YouTube of that wants to be reasonably consistent but there is a danger and we do see it already that a lot of people will use use cord for example to produce a load of images. They all look very, very similar. Yes, they're on brand and they're it's almost too polished. But I then went on to tell it, Okay, Claude. I said Claude.
Simon Young:Give me some images for my blog posts, some of which which we're gonna publish through GeoForge. Want it to be a consistent theme. I don't want an AI fingerprint or watermark in it. And it then came on to tell me, okay, well, if we skin it differently and we produce you a tool, then Claude actually then went on to build me a tool that creates the SVG images as templates. Then I can select multiple pieces and then tell it the words that I want in it and then download it as a PNG.
Simon Young:And it said that will not have any signature or watermark or pixels that are there to tell its AI. It will say that it's user generated content.
Paris Childress:So what you're saying is that what Claude is telling you is that even if all of the puzzle pieces individually are AI generated, you put the pieces of that puzzle together in a unique way that that you constructed in a unique way, then the entire than the entire image is then going to be a unique non non AI generated, non watermark, non tagged. And so that's interesting. Yeah. I mean, even thinking about this in terms of
Simon Young:all the actual pieces. So if you actually think about it as a puzzle, I asked Claude, I want to be able to have five different different structures for my would it be would it be can I share my screen on here and show you? That be easier? Let's do that. Right.
Paris Childress:So let's just Right in at the bottom of the icon in the middle.
Simon Young:Share screen. And let's share this bottom one. Right. So let me know when you see that. So this is this is if I go to GeoForge, I've just actually published an article and I use this this I use this feature that I'd created within Claude to create this image here.
Simon Young:Okay?
Paris Childress:You're right. Just a second. You're I don't think your screen is up yet, Simon. Let me let me check on the settings here. Oh, I'm sorry.
Paris Childress:Here we go. I needed to add it to the stage. I just did that now. Okay. Now it's it's up.
Simon Young:So we can see inside the Forge. Here's one of the articles that has been written written. Now now the image I wasn't particularly happy with that the system generated because because not for the sake of it of it not being a correct image. It was the fact that I want them to all be branded. I want them to be on theme.
Simon Young:I want it to feel consistent when you get onto the customer's blog page. So this is the blog page of Stitch. Okay? And at the moment, can probably tell that a bunch of these images are AI generated. Now, I wanted to get away from that.
Simon Young:Sure. Yeah. So I then told told well, Claude actually suggested to me to me. I'm not gonna claim a 100% credit for this because Claude told me what to do. And then it said, let's build you a tool.
Simon Young:Now within it, it's got, for example, the logo. It's got you see this stitch pattern down the side.
Paris Childress:Now Yeah. Is that something that's branded for stitch?
Simon Young:Well, that's a template piece. So think of it as a puzzle piece. If I go and this was all built in Claude in about ten minutes. So it's given me different styles of post post. All of these elements are just pulling in pulling in from from SVG files.
Simon Young:Right? So you see this this graph style or you've
Paris Childress:Okay. Got It's it's it's creating some sort of a mash up among all of these different images?
Simon Young:Yeah. So it's making the mashup. So you choose which version you want. You put on your title. So if I go back to here and I get, let's say we get the title of this blog, UK GDPR and data rules, etcetera.
Simon Young:So say I get that piece piece and I go into my into my tool, which is here here, and I put that there. You can see now it's it's added that into the image image. Right? Right. Claude is now telling me if I was to download this image image, it's a unique PNG.
Simon Young:It's not generated by AI because this is a templated generator which includes the puzzle pieces to make my image. But as you can see, if I then said, right, I want it in a different theme. I want it a different color. I want a different size. I want a square, etcetera.
Simon Young:Then I can down and this was all built in Claude in, ten minutes. So I'm then able to to you know, I've got one with bars on it. Let's say that fits better. I want it darker and let's go away from the square because I want that. Let's say this is not blog image now.
Simon Young:Okay. I then said to blog, well, what would happen if I imported my blog post? So I've put my blog post in here. Because I now I'm saying I care that I my content rewritten. So it's here.
Simon Young:Obviously, GeoForge has written the version which is we're happy with anyway. But I said, can you then get it to write in the voice of voice of my client, Paul? Can have different lengths of content content. And then I can say to it, write a post. It's then written me to me a LinkedIn post to go with it, to go with this image image, to then link back to the unique piece of content that GPO Forge is building.
Simon Young:The question then is, does that constitute non AI slots? I don't know. But I've gotta be a lot closer to we want to get to them just copy and pasting straight out of chat.
Paris Childress:I still think that it's not AI slop, Simon, because ultimately, you you have derived a LinkedIn post from a blog post. And I don't think that there was a, that is a derivative step. But before that, the blog post was derived from original knowledge, knowledge base source material, which we've, we've seen we saw that last time and we'll look at it again that your draft in GEO for your draft is referencing specific if you open up on the right if you. Let's see where is it the the sources maybe if you scroll up a little bit. To the top.
Paris Childress:The sources should be labeled here, but oh you know I think it's because you've moved it out of draft mode so. Yeah,
Simon Young:do want me to go and look closely now?
Paris Childress:When it's in a draft state, if we go to another one that it's in that it's in draft like writing in progress, any of those? Yeah. Now, you can see that. You just, yeah, that's a good example. You can see the sources on the right.
Paris Childress:All the sources are labeled so you can see every specific passage that was cited from the knowledge base is referenced here. So, you can trace each source In fact, you can see the citation markers are even in the draft themselves. Now, that goes away, by the way. Don't get published, those markers. But that's there for the initial editor.
Paris Childress:Yeah, exactly. It says source one and source four. You can go to your source I guess it's a legend over on the right and you can see source one is a whatsapp chat source four is a recording of something sales call maybe yeah and I can dig into those sources and I can see that that is what is those are the sources that are supporting the claims made in that first overview paragraph here.
Simon Young:I would this is where I struggled a little bit where I said generate image and then it doesn't doesn't
Paris Childress:We're not really strong here yet. I have to admit. No. This is
Simon Young:You know, I if I was to, you know, how central lettings move from individual WhatsApp accounts to branch wide inboxes, all I was talking about doing is I can then go into my little tool that I've built. Mhmm. There you go. And and then I've got an image. An image.
Paris Childress:Well, yeah, it'll just pop it into your Uh-huh. Is your plan, Simon, to start having these kind of consistent branded hero images for all the posts within this framing like this?
Simon Young:Yeah. So in theory, if I then look at the blog page for Stitch, which I think is this one, This looks this is inconsistent, right, or generic. Yeah. Generic. I'm not saying that mine are gonna be gonna be it's not world class design.
Simon Young:Right? But it will be a lot better than what we've got. And again, then in theory, AI tagged. Question really, really begs itself. A blog is copy and pasted, I.
Simon Young:E, completely AI slot and the images AI slot. Do the crawlers just go not picking it up? Does it does it hit the front of it and go does it?
Paris Childress:I really don't think that the crawlers pay much attention at all to the images. Right. I don't think because there, these are language models. They're, they're there to gobble up the words, but not, not the images. The images are for humans.
Simon Young:You say that, but one of the things I do on YouTube a lot to rank videos is put the words into the thumbnail. So and 100% YouTube reads the thumbnail and any words in the image 100% definitely. And we should
Paris Childress:test Yeah. We should
Simon Young:test that in GEO Forge because putting the words into the as long as they're readable in the thumbnail, percent it it picks it up. And one of the ranking techniques in YouTube is words in thumbnail plus words spoken in the first thirty seconds. If they match, that's a good signal. So it could be something that we could test.
Paris Childress:That is interesting. And I think that that's a very good point that you make is the words in the image. So the AI crawlers, I don't really know the answer to this, but let's say Google bot or OpenAI, OpenAI's crawler hits a page and sees the image. It, I guess there's alt text. There's gonna be alt text in the image that it can read or
Simon Young:No. No. Which shows up? Yeah. That that's not put in so now when I code an image for a thumbnail on YouTube, I will I will embed embed all of the schema and everything and tell it to, you know, the creation, who created it, the author, there's a description, there's tags, all sorts of stuff in it.
Simon Young:But the basic, basic thing is as long as those words are in that thumbnail, it works. And we all know that we could take a PDF now. So a flattened document and give it to AI, and it could read it all and transcribe it and put it into a blog or whatever right so we know to an extent they're reading those words. All the ability this is.
Paris Childress:I am very confident that Google Google's crawlers can read images can process. I I'm not so sure about chat GBT as much. But it's an interesting thing to test and and why why not do it anyway if it it it also it makes for a good looking image anyway. Yeah, I don't think it hurts the user experience and if there's a chance that it helps the SEO and GEO then, you know, think it's a it should it should be done. It's kind of like the LL LMS dot TXT file.
Simon Young:But most people have well
Paris Childress:not that this is another another another thing it's it's kind of like the equivalent of the robots dot TXT file but it's LLMS. Yeah. Dot TXT and and some people think that you should have a file where you give specific instructions to AI crawlers through this LLMS dot TXT file, but it's been more or less proven that it doesn't have any impact at all.
Simon Young:There's people selling that as a service though on that.
Paris Childress:Oh yeah,
Simon Young:yeah, we'll create you your LLMS file and we'll yeah, no doesn't want
Paris Childress:to surface it sounds great. It sounds like of course it's that makes perfect sense. We have to do it. But the real studies that have done and I've read about probably at least a dozen different studies that have measured the impact of sites that have an LMS dot the XT file versus those that don't and all these studies consistently say there is no measurable difference or impact in the results either let's say the share of voice that they're going after. So it basically has this proven that this file has any real impact.
Paris Childress:But my point was that if there's some that is easy to do and there's a chance that it helps then the the the obvious decision is to just do it if it doesn't hurt. It could definitely doesn't hurt. It might help and it's easy to do if it's those three categories then you know go for it, it's. It's a one insurance policy
Simon Young:1% rule right you can be one percent. Why not and those all of those 1% set up to a lot Because most people can't be bothered to to do, you know, just do the basics. Basics.
Paris Childress:Yeah. Simon, now, let's, I see you've got the pipeline, the content pipeline pulled up on the screen and you've been in, you've been in this now for a few days and and thanks for your patience with all the setup stuff. Because I know it's it's not getting getting set up with everything is not the so smooth all the time. There's the CMS integrations and a Google Analytics, Google Search Console. There's your site for DNS records.
Paris Childress:But now that's all done and now you're really ready to rock and roll and you've got 10 topic recommendations on the board. You have 12 pieces. Is that a 12? You have 12 in progress I think. Well you have drafts.
Simon Young:Yeah, yeah,
Paris Childress:yeah, the second column writing in progress and then you got to ready to review which means that you've tee those up for your client to to approve. Yeah. Tell me what's been your what's your first reaction to the content is it is it good does it. Just from your first impression what do you think.
Simon Young:Oh the structure of its pays in so and the detail And and from the fact that we've served it, we've given it a lot of information. Right? And that's and that's I think that's gonna be key as people go forward. And I was talking to a client this morning about recording his calls, and there was a little device. You showed me one that was a watch, didn't you, that
Paris Childress:Yeah. Mem Memco. What was it? Yeah.
Simon Young:Well, he this client showed me one called Pocket. So this little it's like a little credit card sized device that you can actually put on the back of your phone on back of your phone. But it's recording everything as well if you want. But the cool thing about that was it was AI enabled enabled, and it's gonna take all the mean action points out of meetings. It's gonna then tee stuff in your diary.
Simon Young:It's gonna draft emails up for you and send confirmations, send quotes. It's gonna do all of that before, you know, if you're in a meeting by the time you've got back to the office, it's all done. It's all done. But the point, the point is
Paris Childress:amazing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So, you meet, so you have a meeting out of the office. This thing records and let let's take it a step further because I've been using Grock Bot this week.
Paris Childress:You have a bunch of agents that are standing by ready to do the work and to take the tasks and perform them. Imagine that you get back from the office and the the work is already in progress or or or done by the by your AI agents already. Yeah. And you get some kind of a message that says, hey, congratulations on the good meeting and the nice lunch that you had and welcome back to the office. By the way, we had we had 14 action items from that meeting and seven of them are done and the rest are in progress by this, this, and this AI agent.
Paris Childress:And they'll be all done by 5PM today. Think we're gonna see that world like this year.
Simon Young:Yeah. 100%. Whether everyone adopts it, that's the well, it's just a
Paris Childress:The case leading yeah. I mean, the the early adopters are gonna be they're they're gonna be there.
Simon Young:I and the interestingly, I had to The more so important point that we need to make is throughout this particular session is we're trying to get away from AI slot. Point being you'll be able to use these voice recorders rather than having to go on to Claude or whatever and press record and talk to it and etcetera. Yeah. It that particular device has a direct integration to ChatGPT, Claude, etcetera. So it can be going away and looking at your skill set, at should I be building new web pages for this for this, you know, particular project while Simon's in his meeting?
Simon Young:I be creating the quotes? But can I add all of everything that he's talking about and his clients talking about continually to the project? So then uploading that to my knowledge base to then instruct further, you know, the next meeting you have, it is probably late most of it out for you.
Paris Childress:Yeah, yeah, it's like in the in the medical world the analogy would be taking pills versus having an IV being hooked up to an IV. Yeah, I mean if you're if you're you know your body is the AI might as well just hook it up to an IV instead of taking pills or getting shots you know just have it constantly flowing in.
Simon Young:Take your vitamins well this is just all day every day.
Paris Childress:Yeah you just have it you have it in the bloodstream constantly. I think that's inevitably where we're headed. I was I had a conversation over over lunch with Del Cho who's our head of product for GEO Forge and we were talking about integrations for base forge because right now we only have one which is Firefly's notetaker and you have to manually sync all of the meetings and then you have to select which ones and then you have to upload them manually. So it's still a little bit of a clunky process. I was telling him about this new category of devices that are the the one that you mentioned the one that I talked about last time that are going be with us and and with one quick press of a button at any point we can just record our surroundings wherever we are and it's going to it's going to take notes it's going to think it's going to in in real time is going to send it into our AI.
Paris Childress:Of choice where whatever that is. I was thinking would be awesome if base forge could sink if base forge could integrate into this whole class of devices and you could say, MemoCat, I want to basically sync my MemoCat into BaseForge so that imagine that you come back from that meeting and ContentForge, what we're looking at right here, has already drafted a blog post about something that it took out of that meeting that you just had, which would be amazing.
Simon Young:Oh, we're in a whole world of possibilities and we're at a point where you know, those type of devices will be used all day long. I even Emailed the guys at Pocket. Pocket. Felt a bit. Felt a bit.
Simon Young:I sent an email. I sent an email. Anyway, I had to physically do that. But I did send an email to the pocket guys saying, you know, would you like me to review the product and see if I can plug it into workflows for customers in terms of generating knowledge basis, which hopefully that's interesting. But there there's like there's one I think there's one called Whisper.
Simon Young:That's another one but that's just an an app that you can put on your iPhone. Or. Yeah. What WhatsApp? Maybe WhatsApp should share all the recordings that they're making of us and allow that to imagine imagine that knowledge base that already exists.
Paris Childress:Oh yeah and it definitely does exist. No question about it the ads the ads are approving it we talked about it last time yeah we just have a conversation and and suddenly you see an ad for something that's and you haven't done a search. You haven't you haven't gone and clicked anywhere. It's simply just a conversation and then then there's an ad for that.
Simon Young:So I think one of our one of our further episodes will need to be around and you just said it. No click. Click. Right? You said click an ad or or click onto a website.
Simon Young:We are entering a world where it is no click. And the conversation I had with a customer earlier was, you know, the the issue issue, if you're gonna get cited in AI at the moment, it is a no click universe. It's, you know, you get the answer. You probably then go and you might go and search the, you know, that website that you've just been recommended, but as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there's no attribution between you know, if a brand is mentioned in AI AI or cited cited, it doesn't normally give you a link that you can then click and and or you can't you definitely can't attach a UTM tracking link or a pixel to follow that through. Right?
Paris Childress:No, not generally. No, the citation links are clickable and and those typically will lead to that brand to whatever the source page is but a lot of times when ChatGPT just gives you a list of recommendations of brands, it's just a list and, often there, there are no links. You can copy paste that and go to Google, which I think a lot of people do. But in many cases, the first click, the first actual click is from a navigational Google search, meaning they've already chatty PT has already convinced them that you're one of the top options and they're not doing a research query. They're searching for your brand with the full intent to just find your website as quick as possible and go there and call you or fill out the form.
Paris Childress:But I think that's that's why I really believe that if if that's the future of of human visits to websites, which is basically just get me there and get me the fastest path to convert because I've already been convinced through chat. Then we really are now designing these websites and publishing content for AI training more than for human experience. I mean that it's it maybe it's a little bit sad because it's a it's a very, very different new chapter of the web as we know it. But I think that is that's that's the truth now. I mean,
Simon Young:I think I published I published some articles probably more than ten years ago now that were that were how does Google defend itself? When I talk about that, I mean, well, we're in a world where we are going away from traditional search traditional search. And you've you've got scenarios where, you know, I'm a big Claude user. I I talk about it. I use it all the time.
Simon Young:You know, other platforms are catching up really quickly. And you can't be switching between all different ones. Google would obviously want you to to use, for example, Gemini or their AI search and the what you said was really interesting about the fact that people want to get to the result as quickly as possible. Right? To the right result.
Simon Young:And if you look back at traditional SEO, you judged content by how good it was and did it answer somebody's question and give them what they wanted as quickly as possible. Because Google knew if it put I know seven or eight very good results on the front page and a couple of spurious ones. If people click on the result that isn't great and they go, Overall, the experience of using Google drops, right? So the what you're talking about in terms of getting the right result as quickly as possible is where the competition will sit for all of the AI agents to say how many of my people get exactly what they want within X number of seconds.
Paris Childress:Yeah. You know what wouldn't surprise me, Simon, is that in the same way that Google was measuring these click backs to search results, the pogo sticking effect means that I didn't get what I wanted from that answer and I'm going to either click on another link or I might even rephrase my search. That was a negative signal for Google that whatever page we ranked wasn't good enough. I'm wondering if AI is now, like ChatGPT, is doing something similar where if I if I write in a prompt and I get a response is my next prompt of a natural follow on that that takes the conversation further or because I didn't do do I rephrase my prompt Because I didn't like the answer to be able to analyze it is it a rephrase prompt which means that the first answer was a bad experience or incomplete or is it a natural extension of the conversation which is good because that means that we're now you know, we're doing what we want to do. We're we're bringing them down that funnel or deeper into the conversation
Simon Young:and that
Paris Childress:and that's I'm sure that they probably have a way to do that.
Simon Young:Absolutely fascinating conversation for nerds, right? For us, we're we're like, right. We we love that bit but I don't know that your average sort of website or marketing person is gonna try and optimise for that experience yet. But it may well come a time where you are trying to fall into all of those following questions around the topic.
Paris Childress:Yeah. Which also raises another interesting point which is everything we're doing now and GEO is optimizing for the first prompt which is the opening line in the conversation. But but most conversations go on and on and on and on and what about the follow-up prompt and the follow-up to the follow-up and yeah I think it's hard for people to grasp that right
Simon Young:now Or which part of that conversation actually then leads to the piece of business. Right? So Yes. Right. Starting the conversation and then giving people a bit of education and, you know, telling someone a story.
Simon Young:So marketing, we talk a lot about telling a story and having multiple touch points to get to the point where where somebody then wants to convert, you won't do that with AI Slot.
Paris Childress:No, you won't. And I think that's a great way to bring it back to the beginning because we do need to wrap up in a minute here. But yeah, we all know now that AI Slop is a bad word. We're all trying to figure out It's a gray area for sure Simon it is not a black and white issue it's not either slopper or no slop. There's very varying degrees of sloppiness so we're trying to be as Anti slop as possible here and I think that the formula that I strongly strongly believe in is that the more proprietary knowledge that you that you can bring to AI the less the less that whatever your output from that is is going to be a I slop so I think that's the golden rule and that's really the golden rule of GEO Forge as well is that no content is even really allowed to be published which is purely derivative.
Paris Childress:Everything has to be grounded in that knowledge base. So, if you don't build a knowledge base in GEO Forge, you cannot produce content. You're unable to because then it would be slopped.
Simon Young:And I have seen examples already even though Stitch has got such a huge knowledge base of topics that GeoForge has suggested. And then I try to generate and it will say we don't hold enough knowledge on this particular subject just yet. That's then encouraging me to help produce that. Maybe one Yeah, one tip would be if you can add in, you know, the prompt that then says to me, it doesn't exist at the moment, go and find it. Or can you write me something right now?
Paris Childress:Yeah. There's a gap. There there's a clear gap that needs to be filled. Yeah. So, our job is to race to fill it.
Paris Childress:Yeah. Great. Well, Simon, but so easy to, well, I feel like we're just starting to get rolling now but for the sake of the audience, we we've always tried to cap this at about thirty minutes and we're approaching forty. So, why don't we, why don't we wrap this up? We can start thinking about our weekend ahead and thanks again and just so that for our audience's benefit, we we're now committed to Tuesdays and Fridays.
Paris Childress:So, hope for for those who have listened and enjoyed this and have been listening. Keep tuning in. We're going to be back on Tuesday of next week, Same time. 2PM UK, 4PM in Bulgaria and hope to to see you all then. Alright, sign it.
Simon Young:Bye. Cheers.
Paris Childress:One second. There we go. Got the right button.