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Is there a single right way to run a home care agency? We sure don’t think so. That’s why we’re interviewing home care leaders across the industry and asking them tough questions about the strategies, operations, and decisions behind their success. Join host Miriam Allred, veteran home care podcaster known for Home Care U and Vision: The Home Care Leaders’ Podcast, as she puts high-growth home care agencies under the microscope to see what works, what doesn’t, and why. Get ready to listen, learn, and build the winning formula for your own success. In the Home Care Strategy Lab, you are the scientist.
Miriam Allred (00:01.46)
Welcome everyone to the Home Care Strategy Lab. I'm your host, Miriam Allred. On this show, I put high growth home care agencies under the microscope to see what works, what doesn't, and why. Today in the lab, I'm joined by Deanna Keppel, the Vice President of Assisting Hands Corporate Office. Deanna, thank you for joining me today.
Deanna Keppel (00:22.702)
Thank you for having me.
Miriam Allred (00:24.372)
I don't know if everybody knows you very well, so I want to start out with your background and your introduction, and then we'll talk a bit more about Assisting Hands can you start and just tell us a little bit about yourself?
Deanna Keppel (00:35.788)
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm originally from Rochester, New York, went to college in upstate New York, and after that moved down to Boston.
And while I was in Boston, I worked for the Area Agency on Aging and did everything from case management to information and referrals, as well as protective services for the elderly. So really got my first taste of home care and working with that population right out of college. I moved to Chicago about 16 years ago.
And that's when I first found Assisting Hands. So I started off as the office manager for one of our locations in the Chicagoland area and really helped. He was brand new, just signed his franchise agreement. I was his first hire from Craigslist, that old, and started getting his business up and running. did one year in our first year, we did one million in revenue.
during 2009, which was the recession. And I stayed with him for about seven years before coming over onto the corporate national team, where I've been in my role in similar support services role for the last eight years.
Miriam Allred (01:55.644)
Amazing. So you've really been brought up in both home care and senior care and you've been with Assisting Hands for a long time being on the franchisee side and now the franchisor side. Incredible. Tell us a little bit more about Assisting Hands. So you work on the corporate side now, so you know probably more than the average owner on just, you know, the behind the scenes, the founding story, the origin story. Tell us a little bit more about Assisting Hands.
Deanna Keppel (02:00.104)
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah.
Deanna Keppel (02:18.324)
Absolutely. So we were actually founded by Dr. Gail Silverstein. She had a home care agency in Arizona. And it was back in 2006 that she was introduced to three Idaho farmers that were also very savvy businessmen. And they partnered up and began franchising in 2007.
What's a little different with Assisting Hands is we have the area rep model. So we have our franchise or our national corporate team, which is very lean. And we are because we have area reps, which are local support franchises that have a vested interest in the offices in their territory. So really with Assisting Hands, you kind of get double layer of support, not only from the national level, but also boots on the ground and AR.
in your territory, helping you be successful and grow.
Miriam Allred (03:20.402)
Amazing. Has that always been the structure or was that something that was implemented later on?
Deanna Keppel (03:25.324)
No, it had always been the structure from the beginning. The franchisee I started with, he was one of the first ARs as well. So we've had that in and truly see the difference in the franchisees that fall under an AR and those that don't. We don't have ARs in every market, but the majority of our franchisees do fall under one. And you can see that extra level of support and how beneficial it is to them.
Miriam Allred (03:53.214)
Yeah, thank you for sharing that and explaining that again. Every model is a little bit different and some people may or may not know about that. Tell us a little bit about just like service lines and payers, you know, obviously your national footprint at this point. And so you've got a lot of different franchisees and different markets with different strengths and weaknesses, but just give us kind of a highlight of, of services and payers.
Deanna Keppel (04:04.974)
Yeah.
Deanna Keppel (04:13.516)
Yeah, we are all non-medical home care services. So that's help with ADLs, IADLs in the home. majority of our clients are private pay, but we do have a very good mix of Medicaid and VA as our other top two providers or payer sources.
Miriam Allred (04:35.702)
Okay. Yeah. Well, that sounds, that sounds great. Thanks for sharing all of that. And I don't know if you mentioned it, but Gail was in Arizona. Corporate office is now in Nampa, Boise, Idaho, and approximately how many territories franchisees do you all have today?
Deanna Keppel (04:49.614)
Yeah, we have we have over 200 territories sold in about 120 office locations with a handful opening within the next few months. So we're in 28 states now, and I believe we have 26 area reps throughout throughout the country.
Miriam Allred (04:57.192)
Okay.
Miriam Allred (05:02.089)
Amazing.
Miriam Allred (05:09.18)
Okay, fantastic. And you have probably seen a lot of that growth firsthand, right?
Deanna Keppel (05:13.265)
I think when I came on we were at 45 or 50 franchisees. So have more than doubled since I since I started on the corporate side of things.
Miriam Allred (05:26.422)
Yeah, exciting. So you've learned a thing or two in all of your experience, which is what we're going to dig into today. I want to talk about what you observe that these owners maybe is holding these owners back and how you all essentially set them up for success. Because again, you look, you've helped, you know, probably onboard and train and orient dozens of owners at this point in time. And you see different markets and you hear different things and you're also kind of on the front lines yourself. So
I want to talk about that. What's holding owners back and how you're setting them up for success. So the first question I want to ask is kind of high level. It's around, um, a lot of business owners and a lot of your franchisees, they know what they should be doing, but they may not be doing it. And so from your perspective, what are the psychological or operational barriers that are just, that's just holding people back?
Deanna Keppel (06:21.324)
Yeah, think, you know, there's definitely patterns that I've seen throughout. Definitely fear of failure is one of those psychological barriers that just continues to hold franchisees back. They're trying to play it safe just because this is probably new. They're usually first time business owners and they're really, you know, they got a lot of eggs in one basket. So they're definitely fear of failure.
We see a lot of individuals that fall into the analysis paralysis. A lot of this is new for them and they just don't know where to start. So they kind of often think I've got tons of things to do and I just don't know where to start. So they just don't do anything. So those are probably the two psychological barriers that we see all the time.
operational, they kind of tie in, you know, you've got an owner that is wearing too many hats, they're not wanting to let go of anything because they're afraid, you know, if if I can't do it, and I hire somebody to do it, and they fail, then it's a reflection on me. So they're always trying to do a little bit of everything, which can certainly slow up the process and the trajectory of growth. Poor time management.
You know, they're not able to focus on the things that they should be focusing on, working too much in the system or in the weeds instead of on the business. So that's really the the two things that we see as the operational is they're just not they don't have enough internal staff to get them to where they want to go.
Miriam Allred (08:00.63)
Let's dig into a couple of these. The first one I think that you say is fear of failure. And I think that's kind of universal as business owners. You know, it's a big risk and a big undertaking to start a business and nobody wants to fail. What does that look like for them? You know, are they worried about letting families down? Are they worried about, you know, like cashflow and income early days? Like when you say fear of failure, like what do you think is actually going on in their mind in those early days?
Deanna Keppel (08:24.49)
A lot of it is the fear of letting families down. This is a new industry for several of our owners, so they're really not sure of all the nuances, the ins and outs that happen when you match a caregiver with a client and all the array of things that could go right and could go wrong. So they definitely have that expectation to not let family and clients down for sure.
Several have left their job and their livelihood is, you know, attached to the business. So if they fail, there is a huge financial repercussion on that. So I definitely see cashflow and just the income not coming soon enough that they start to freeze a little bit on where they're headed.
Miriam Allred (09:16.778)
kind of like a curiosity question about the demographic of these owners. Have you all found that a lot of retirees are opening up these franchises or are they, know, kind of at what stage or age or demographic are a lot of these new owners coming from?
Deanna Keppel (09:18.765)
Yes?
Deanna Keppel (09:30.626)
Yeah.
When I first started, it was a lot of retirees, a lot of individuals that had a career, want to get into business for themselves and move away from that corporate world. And we still have probably the majority of our franchisees come from that background. But what's really exciting now is that we're seeing franchisees that are on the younger side, young professionals that started a career out of college and they want to be an entrepreneur.
right from the beginning. So we've got some of our most successful franchisees have, you know, became an owner in their early 30s, late 20s. And they're like, this is the path I want to go. And it's so refreshing to see them come out of the gate with brand new ideas and just really hit the ground running.
Miriam Allred (10:20.98)
Yeah, I appreciate that perspective. I've just been in home care five or six years and I also kind of see or feel this shift. I've interviewed and talked to a lot of these very tenured owners, but there is kind of this younger, hungrier, newer generation kind of tapping into home care. I've even interviewed a few people recently that were brought up in home care essentially and I just think it's different, it's unique. This industry is evolving very quickly and so just
Deanna Keppel (10:27.886)
Yes.
Miriam Allred (10:50.28)
even observing the demographic that is drawn to the business of home care is really interesting.
Deanna Keppel (10:56.494)
Yeah, we have one of our owners, it's a brother team, they're twin brothers. Still don't know if I can tell them apart, no. And one of their wives, and they signed, I think when they were all 26, 27, and they were one of our fastest growing franchisees in the system by far.
Miriam Allred (11:03.094)
Okay.
Miriam Allred (11:13.91)
Yeah, which is so incredible. You know, it's kind of like, you know, anyone can do it, but anyone that has a heart for this, you know, that wants to work hard and put in the work, but also has this passion for senior care can be successful. the other thing that you mentioned on the operational side as being an operational barrier is just time management. And that is also kind of this universal, how does any business owner have time to do everything, especially in home care? They're wearing all these hats. Let's unpack that a little bit more. Are these early owners hesitant?
Deanna Keppel (11:25.004)
Yeah? Yeah.
Deanna Keppel (11:40.791)
Yeah.
Miriam Allred (11:43.382)
to hire early on or what's kind of the underlying problems with time management.
Deanna Keppel (11:50.674)
Yeah, I think two things I always see with that is one, the cash flow of bringing individuals on and bringing strong individuals on who come at a little bit of a higher price point. They get nervous around taking on a big salary for office staff.
especially in the beginning. And if you really do have the right people in the right seat, that allows the owner to step away and focus on what tasks they should be doing to help grow the business. The second thing I always see is they're new. They want to know what's going on. They want to have a pulse on everything from who, you know, the phone just rang. Who was it? What do they want? Where are we going? What's the followup? So if they're in the office and their main role, for example, is
to be out marketing. If they start their day in the office, they'll never leave the office because they start hearing things that are going on. They feel that they need to help. They want to know and just have a pulse on it. And then they never follow through on the tasks that they should truly be focusing on.
Miriam Allred (12:58.186)
What's your advice regarding that? Because every owner is different and comes in with a different set of skills and some are drawn towards sales or some are drawn towards clinical. Like everyone comes in with a different background, but do you think it's important to hire kind of a number one early on or the flip side of that? Do you encourage that they are very involved for a period of time to understand all of the operations before they hire? Like those are two different approaches and what's your take on both of those?
Deanna Keppel (13:27.688)
Yeah, so I did have one owner even recently tell me he goes, I don't know how to schedule. I don't know how to do client scheduling. I don't know how to do it. He's like, but I also don't need to like that was never my goal as coming into this business is to be a scheduler. You know, so he has hired the good people. He's like, I hire people smarter than me and I let them do their job. And you can see the difference in his office that
they run it and he's like I really am able to focus on growing the business. He's about a year in and has very little involvement in that day to day. But if something were to happen to one of his office staff and he needed to jump in.
He could. So it's a fine balance of yes, maybe in that first six months, the owner is learning everything, getting a feel for how it works, putting processes in place that works for them and their staff. But shortly after that six month mark, you want to start shifting away from working on and in those details and more focused on owner, owner responsibilities and what they enjoy doing, whatever that that role might be.
Miriam Allred (14:38.302)
Yeah, that's great. Great insight. What about hiring? Those early hires are so key and there's so many learnings for owners when they make those early hires and it can go right sometimes and it can go wrong sometimes. But again, it's all good learning. What's your take on trying to hire in industry early on? Again, there's two different paths. You're finding people that have done it and that have been in home care or just looking for talent and people that are compatible to you as an owner.
What you've been in that seat, like you mentioned early on when you worked with a franchisee, you know, you had experience in senior care and that probably gave you a leg up, but what's your take on hiring an industry versus outside of the industry?
Deanna Keppel (15:18.284)
I mean, I honestly value hiring for the personality and the skill set.
for especially tasks that can be trained. Like if you have a solid recruitment process in place, that should be a copy and paste. Anybody could walk into that workflow and be able to learn what that process is. I think the hardest thing is getting to know the caregiver population and getting to know the client population and doing that matching. But I truly think you should be hiring for the skill set, the trainability and the personality over
okay, well, you've done this before. It's beneficial, definitely to have that experience, but I look at the big picture more than just at what those tasks were on a resume.
Miriam Allred (16:09.398)
Okay. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think the role that experience and reputation does weigh in or factor in more is that sales and marketing role. know, somebody that has those relationships in the market already that can then utilize those relationships. Would you agree with that?
Deanna Keppel (16:18.595)
Yes.
Deanna Keppel (16:27.252)
I 100 % agree with that. And I do think when you're looking at the sales marketing person,
Our boots on the ground referral marketing is so much different than any other sales position that having somebody with the contacts and knowing that, you know, it's such a, takes three to six months before your marketing efforts and sales efforts start to pay off. And if you have somebody not used to that leg, it can be really frustrating for the salesperson as well as the owner, because it just takes a long time before they start to see that that ROI.
So, having somebody for that.
Miriam Allred (17:04.805)
But like you said, yeah, absolutely. And like you said, a lot of this can be trained. You think of really good sales rep that know how to sell and what it takes to sell. They can learn and build those relationships. I think of people listening to this thinking, we just hire really good salespeople and then teach them and introduce them. So there's no one right way. And that's the premise of Home Care and premise of this podcast is there's no one right way to do things. But I like to just hear your take on these different pieces.
Deanna Keppel (17:22.796)
Yeah.
Deanna Keppel (17:29.261)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, no right way. There's definitely so many ways you could you could make things happen. So
Miriam Allred (17:40.362)
The other thing that you probably see a lot of is there's maybe two different types of owners and two different types of kind of business brains. One is long-term vision, like mission, vision, visionary, you know, but then there's also the kind of tactical, operationally focused owners. How do you support both of them? Again, those are two very different kinds of personas, but you have franchisees that probably fit into both categories. How do you help people that are very vision driven?
be more operational minded and then address, you know, the reverse, which is very operationally minded owners be more kind of vision driven.
Deanna Keppel (18:16.344)
Yeah, so what we did at Assisting Hands recently is our field coaches became strategic growth coaches through an accelerator program with AC Inc. I'm not sure if you're familiar with them, but it really teaches us how to be better coaches to our franchisees and implementing.
a strategic growth plan. So if you have a visionary who has maybe 12 out ideas floating around, but they have a hard time putting it to paper, this coaching plan will let them prioritize which vision they want to start with and then give them the action steps.
to get them there or also to get their admin there. So if you have an owner that has all these visions and you've they've hired a strong admin that can then take that vision and execute it, that's ideal. But it's also giving them the roadmap of
You have this wonderful vision on a caregiver mentorship program. Let's now break it down to how you can actually get there and what are your first steps and let's have check-ins to keep that vision going so we know that it actually gets to a final program that is implemented and out in your community.
On the reverse, the operational person, can do that vision planning with them and they may not have that mindset of, a million new ideas coming in every day, but they do have a long-term vision, whether it's personal or it is something tied to the business. They have a goal they want to reach and it's breaking that down to say, okay, you've got this revenue goal for the end of the year. These are the pain points you're telling me. What can we brainstorm when it comes to a program?
Deanna Keppel (20:05.072)
or a solution to get you to where you need to be. So kind of helping them see the long-term vision. And I think in both cases, you're giving quick wins so they know that things are attainable and things are moving in the right direction.
Miriam Allred (20:20.89)
Which one are you seeing more of? More vision driven owners or more operationally minded owners?
Deanna Keppel (20:28.014)
seen a lot more operational minded owners recently I think. think they are just this is what I need to do I know how to do it but not too much out of the box at least at this moment not to say that that's all of our franchisees we've got several visionaries out there but those that I've been working with recently are much more operational focused right now.
Miriam Allred (20:51.996)
Yeah, again, just a curiosity question because I don't know. I think there's a lot of both. Like if you go looking, you can find both, but it's just interesting to hear you say like a lot more, maybe operationally minded leaders that you're working with. So with that being said, you maybe have to help them create the vision, help them see beyond the operations, help them think about the three to five year planning.
Deanna Keppel (21:16.227)
Yep.
Miriam Allred (21:16.572)
What does that look like? Everyone's driven by different things, you know, and it may not be money, it may be impact, may be, you know, rosters. what, how does that conversation go when you're talking to these owners to help them create a vision in their mind of where they want to go?
Deanna Keppel (21:32.214)
Yeah, so you know, we always ask our owners like what is their big hairy audacious goal? Like what do they want to do? Is it a personal goal that this business can help them achieve? Whether that's generational wealth for their kids within, you know, an agency that they can pass on? Is it I want to retire and travel the world? Either one that goal is there. They've got to see how they can get there.
And going through that and reminding them of what that goal is usually helps bring them into that visionary mode, even just for a minute, but it just keeps it top of mind to say, okay, that's what I'm working for. That's what we're doing. And in order to get there, I need to do X, Y, and Z first.
Miriam Allred (22:21.654)
Imagine you see that change though, as the time goes on, you know, think of maybe you're more tenured owners and what they maybe thought or wanted when they start the business and then they're a few years in or post pandemic and their mindset has totally shifted. Have you seen a lot of that? And if so, you know, how, what does that look like? How has their mindset shifted and what are they more focused on now after maybe years of doing this?
Deanna Keppel (22:44.59)
Yeah, I think they're more so I definitely see the shift and I think part of that is also the stage of business you do see a little bit more operational focus in the beginning and Then as they get the right people in the right place and they're allowed to take a step back They're allowed to maybe become a little bit more visionary and see what they want to actually actually work on So we've had a couple owners
You know who've been in our system for a long time and they maybe will say okay now i'm going to start looking at a different payer source that maybe I didn't look at before because The margins weren't as great but now i've got a good base of private pay clients that I can maybe take on a medicaid contract Or they're looking at how they can better empower their caregiving staff a lot of mentorship programs continuing education Seeing what they can do to help develop
up their caregivers and tie it into retention really. So they're a lot more focused on how can I raise the bar now that I've got the operational foundation in place.
Miriam Allred (23:54.39)
Yeah, I think that's so interesting. And again, one of the things that I love about home care is things change for these owners. What they think day one is so different from day 90 to day 120 to year one to year five. It's like, there's just so much change in ebb and flow. I think, especially during the pandemic, I talked to so many owners in it and now kind of coming out of it where they let their foot off the gas and then they were like, wait, I need to like.
put my foot back on the gas and figure things out and decide like, what do I really want out of this business? Is it a lifestyle business? Is it, you know, to create some retirement plan for my family? Like there's just a lot came out of the pandemic where people had to think bigger and think differently and kind of re rethink about how, how they wanted to approach their business and what they wanted to get out of it.
Deanna Keppel (24:42.028)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Miriam Allred (24:44.394)
I want to ask about KPIs. It's interesting to hear you say you have a lot of like operationally focused owners. A big part of driving success is measuring and managing and being aware of metrics in order to achieve that. So what are some of the maybe underutilized KPIs that you see inside these owners and their businesses?
Deanna Keppel (25:07.936)
Yeah, one is definitely caregiver retention. Like that is one that not a lot of people will focus on. They focus on how many hires did I have this week? What's my bench look like? How many caregivers were working? But not necessarily are they the same caregivers working. If you can get caregivers to the 90 day mark, you're much more likely to hold on to them longer.
you know, higher loss rate in the beginning of those first 90 days. So if you can manage and track, how many people am I losing and where and when am I losing them, that helps you build your foundation of caregivers, just knowing what your retention is and then putting things in place to help improve that.
Miriam Allred (25:50.432)
take yourself back to when you were in the business, you know, how, how are you doing that? You know, what, what's holding people back from managing retention? Obviously they're so focused on recruitment and need to be filling the funnel all of the time, but what, what's holding people back from focusing on retention and then actually like implementing retention strategies.
Deanna Keppel (26:11.052)
Yeah, I think a lot of the scheduling side of things and the recruitment is reactive. Like I've got a case that I need to focus on right now and I need a caregiver. I sent out my messages. I contacted, you know, all the people I think would be a good fit or might have availability. I'm not having luck. So I'm just going to.
focus on recruiting to get that shift filled. And caregivers are very used to people only calling them when they want something. Like I have a shift, I have this, I'm gonna give you a call, can you help me, can you do this? And I think people get lost in that reactiveness that they're not really focusing on, okay, I've got a lot of great caregivers, what are their pain points and what can I do to keep them working with me and not...
not get swept up in the crisis that comes every day when we're dealing with people, really.
Miriam Allred (27:08.212)
And it's kind of a cultural thing, like that mindset shift from recruiting and don't get me wrong, everyone needs to be focusing on recruitment, but focusing on retention and maintaining, retaining and recognizing people. Like it's just, you you have to balance both, but almost this like culture of recognition and retention. And that starts with the owner, you know, like how the owner thinks about both client and caregiver retention. So,
Deanna Keppel (27:16.802)
Thank you.
Deanna Keppel (27:26.026)
Okay.
Miriam Allred (27:36.042)
How do you instill that in people? How do you get that mindset shift across?
Deanna Keppel (27:42.158)
Yeah, I think you know our
Our agency from the top down, bottom up is very family focused. Like we've actually trademarked Fofo, which is a family of franchise owners. So really we're setting the example from the very beginning that there's this culture that we want to instill from our CEO and founders all the way down to our caregivers and reiterating that message and tying them into our culture really helps the owner take it and
Implement it within their individual agency But I also think like from their standpoint it's also showing them Sometimes you got to see what the franchisee's pain point is but is it well? Let's look at your recruitment cost and then compare it to what it would cost if you just retained caregivers Like here's the statistic on what your retention should be. Where are you at?
and have you talk to your caregivers to communicate what they would prefer in an agency, in a shift, in a client to help build that retention backup.
Miriam Allred (28:50.934)
A minute ago, you mentioned 90-day retention. When you think about retention, what are the milestones? Obviously that 90-day, but is there any important milestones even within that 90 days or after that 90 days that are key to keep track of?
Deanna Keppel (29:07.574)
Yeah, I definitely think caregivers should be getting like a 30 day at minimum check-in regardless of how long they've been there. How are things going? It's kind of that call instead of saying, hey, I need something from you. It's that call of what can I do for you? Like, how are you checking in and just seeing where they're at? I definitely think like that should be happening at minimum once a month. If not more, definitely more frequent in the beginning. I used to do friendly Friday.
is where I would just call my my roster and just say hey how are you guys doing it's Friday you know any availability this weekend but besides that like how are your grandkids I know you're you know taking CNA CNA classes how is that going and just really checking in with them is is just consistent communication
Miriam Allred (29:57.856)
And those check-ins cannot be overstated. It's like they go such a long way. And like you said, they're so used to being asked, like, can you do this? Can you do that? Can you do this? But flip the script, you know, what can I do for you? How are you doing? Like you just said, how are your grandkids? How is your training? Like asking them questions.
Deanna Keppel (30:16.896)
And they're gonna remember that because if you look at everyone else, that's what they're doing. They're just asking for something from them. And the more you can help them out and give them something, they're gonna have a relationship with you that they won't have with anyone else.
Miriam Allred (30:34.772)
And I like that you're saying once a month, even ongoing, like I, this is something I have thought a lot about and I bring this up in a lot of episodes is just like those people that have been with you for a year, two years, three years, five years, oftentimes their check-ins become less frequent. they've been with us for three years. I only need to check in on them every six months. That's not the case. Those people walk away. They leave if you're not still checking in with them. So
Speak to that like long-term retention. What is your approach to retaining people that have been with you for years and how do you keep track of them?
Deanna Keppel (31:08.684)
Yeah, I think a lot of the scheduling software can keep track and give you tasks to do and follow up, but it is, the communication. So we used to do our, or I used to do supervisory visits once a month. So even if it wasn't a phone call, I was in person with the client and the caregiver on a monthly basis, just to say hi, see how things are going, help with any issues or concerns, because those caregivers are also the ones that have a long-term client.
And they sometimes take the agency or the office out of it because they're doing so well together. So you really want to, from not only a caregiver standpoint, but also a client retention standpoint is we're here. Let's continue this communication and know that we're not just going to staff you and walk away and come out every six months or once a year when we need a new document signed or whatever that might be. So really we were trying to put ourselves in front of them, regardless of how long.
how long they were with us.
Miriam Allred (32:10.922)
Yeah, I love that. Think about the owners of maybe some of these larger businesses, you know, that can get semi-removed from maybe caregiver retention and even talking to and getting in front of these caregivers. What's your advice there? Because I think it's so important for the CEOs, the owners to still be involved in the caregivers' lives because again, they are the backbone of these businesses. But again, it's easy for them to get kind of removed from that because there's higher level
problem solving strategic initiatives and things, but how do you help owners still keep that pulse on the caregivers and caregiver retention as they scale?
Deanna Keppel (32:52.504)
Part of that is having a good team in place that is keeping the owner up to date with some of those like life milestones of clients. So, or I'm sorry, of caregivers. So if you have a caregiver that reached a one year mark, that office staff should be going to the owner and saying, hey, we've got these caregivers who reached a year.
Let's write them a card. Let's, you know, send them something. What do you want to do? Maybe they, you know, the owner reaches out and says, thank you from one year of your service and just kind of keeps things high level, but still has that connection with them. So they know like, the owner called me. the owner sent me a card thanking me for picking up that last minute shift. Like that means a lot to me. So if you have those care managers or schedulers or staffing coordinators,
On top of the retention and then looping in the owner. I think that makes for a really strong combo to get recognized on all levels
Miriam Allred (33:51.956)
And it means so much to these caregivers. When the CEO calls, I've talked to caregivers that are like, my goodness, the CEO is calling me. And they feel like such an honor. Usually their point of contact is that scheduler, or HR, or someone in the office that they regularly communicate with. But when they get reached out to by the CEO, the owner of the business, it means the world to them. so I think just owners should always have that in their back pocket, and not use it lightly, but just know.
Deanna Keppel (34:00.151)
Yes!
Miriam Allred (34:21.878)
how much weight and power and value they have when reaching out to these employees.
Deanna Keppel (34:26.318)
It's so impactful and it also shows that, the owner is not in the day-to-day, but the owner recognizes the work I'm doing and that means a lot.
Miriam Allred (34:39.42)
Exactly. I know we just kind of went down this like retention rabbit hole, which was great. What are some of the other maybe underutilized KPIs that you think about?
Deanna Keppel (34:48.354)
Yeah, kind of to flip the script on and go back to marketing. I don't think a lot of owners are tracking their efforts out in the field. you owners are very good at tracking or even salespeople like, okay, I got five phone calls today. Three home visits were scheduled to start of care and they track once.
They get the phone call, but what KPIs are being tracked prior to that? Are you looking at how many sales calls you did? How many connections you made? How many lunch and learns? Like what are you doing out in the field and how are you measuring that to ensure you get the phone calls? Cause there's a lot of work that has to happen before the phone rings. And I don't often see
owners tracking what those efforts are.
Miriam Allred (35:43.254)
So how are you solving for that? Because I totally hear you. And that's like its own sales problem is like, it's so easy to track kind of the big milestones, but there's like a hundred little touch points leading up to those big milestones. It's just tedious to track and keep track of. how are you all helping owners solve for that and salespeople solve for that?
Deanna Keppel (35:53.367)
Yes.
Deanna Keppel (36:03.534)
I mean, we recommend a CRM that will built in like here's your schedule. Here's who you need to focus on. Here is your route for the week. And that's what you have to do every week if you're not able to like track and put it in. But it also we try and emphasize with our owners that.
If you hire somebody you want to have a foolproof process that you can just hand it over to them You're not giving them a hundred pieces of paper that were in your car scribbled with a name and a day and a time You want to give them something that they can pick up? And just just run with
On the reverse, if you have a salesperson, you want to know and have that accountability for what they're doing. And should that salesperson leave, you can then pick it up and just run with the, with the process. So the CRM and tracking is our biggest suggestion that we recommend when it comes to like marketing and sales effort KPIs.
Miriam Allred (37:05.736)
And when you say CRM, is this their scheduling software or is this another platform that you are recommending? And you can use names. know everyone's kind of like, don't say names, but yeah, explain so people understand.
Deanna Keppel (37:12.47)
Yeah. Scheduling software does have them built in. They're not as robust as other systems. And we work very closely with 52 Weeks Marketing. So we do recommend their CRM for our owners to use.
Miriam Allred (37:31.038)
Okay. And like you just said, it's either the owner, you know, wearing a lot of hats, also playing the sales role and you know, it's just one more thing for them to have to do. But it's all about like scalability and processes. And then when they, like you said, turn it over or hire a sales rep, they want to know what those people are doing, but it could almost be like hypocritical if you weren't doing that before and like instilling that process on them. But having a robust CRM that's
suited for home care and suited for sales that can track all of that activity is really paramount.
Deanna Keppel (38:03.871)
It really is. And I think any process that owners are trying to put in place to grow.
The sooner they can do it right after opening the better because then it's just part of the day to day I've seen so many people after the fact, know a year and be like well now i've got to put together a crm and a marketing plan well your contacts Tripled since you opened and now you're starting from scratch and that's just going to take a long time to then also change people's mindset That we're we're changing this and now I have to do something different if it's if you've got the strong foundation from the beginning
whether it's a CRM, a recruitment or retention program, it should all start from the very beginning because it's just a little bit harder later on to put those things in place.
Miriam Allred (38:51.634)
It's so good to hear you reiterate that because I hear that all the time. You know, we hit a million or we hit 2 million. Now it's like all of a sudden we need to put processes in place and start tracking sales. It's like, wait, that's going to be so hard to do, especially when you built up a team, you've built up a culture and a reputation and built out those KPIs. It's like, now we're going to dump all of this new stuff on top of you. Like that's just, is not good.
Deanna Keppel (39:04.429)
Yeah.
Deanna Keppel (39:14.912)
Yeah, yeah, and people don't always like change, so it's hard to change that mindset.
Miriam Allred (39:20.83)
And again, you learn as you go, you like you, you refine your sales process. You figure out what KPIs are most important to you. Like it can evolve, but like you're saying, just laying a really strong foundation from the get-go in the core areas of the business is so important. Any other KPI, these were good caregiver retention. I love that. And then also kind of like the, the more like in-depth metrics within some of the
Deanna Keppel (39:36.322)
Mm-hmm.
Miriam Allred (39:48.608)
kind of standard sales KPIs and using a CRM to track any of that. Any other kind of underutilized KPIs that you recognize?
Deanna Keppel (39:58.558)
Most, I mean you could, a lot of, this is a good one. Not a lot of owners put KPIs on their scheduler.
You know, the recruiter has to bring in X amount of people and we all have our financial margins and number of hours we need to have each week or gross revenue. But the scheduler impacts a lot of those higher high level KPIs. So they're the ones that are going to impact your gross profit margin by putting caregivers into overtime or giving that high rate last minute for a shift that needs to be filled. They're the ones that if they can't find somebody.
They just don't send somebody you know they they have a lot of impact on those high You know top and bottom line and not many owners put actual KPIs or Tracking on what the scheduler is doing
So knowing like how many hours are in overtime each week, how many shifts were left unstaffed, how, you know, what is the average pay rate and making sure those are all in line to keep the top, top KPIs where they should be.
Miriam Allred (40:55.945)
Yeah.
Miriam Allred (41:10.592)
Do you think there's kind of this fear there, you know, probably second to the caregivers themselves, that schedule or role is pretty fragile and that there's a lot of turnover in that seat and maybe owners are afraid to put too much pressure on them and over burden them with like tracking and things like, do you think that's kind of at the root of it maybe?
Deanna Keppel (41:32.598)
I do. think there's definitely like your schedulers is the heart of that business, making sure everybody is matched and things are running smoothly and you know, putting out fires and and making sure care is being received.
But I would have to flip that and say, okay, we're tracking these because I want to know where your pain points are. So if you're telling me you're unable to staff shifts on Saturday evening, then that's where the recruiter needs to come in and start focusing on looking for people to work those shifts. So I think it's more of your messaging to them to say, we're not tracking this as a disciplinary tool. We're tracking it as a way to help you do a better job. And we don't know where or how to
do that without tracking the data.
Miriam Allred (42:20.916)
And I would add, and I've seen this done really well, is bonusing them based off these metrics. Again, that role is fragile and has a lot of turnover, but tie their success, tie their efforts very closely to bonuses. You mentioned even like overtime tracking, you know, that's a huge part of their role. And we're probably not even looking at it from that lens of how much money is lost or gained from overtime, but like the scheduler kind of has like
their hand on the lever there and bonusing them, you know, based off that metric alone. So I think there's just a lot of power. And like you said, okay, Saturday evenings, we're struggling to fill the scheduler may have that up in their brain, but does the rest of the team know that? are you taking action against that?
Deanna Keppel (43:04.886)
Yeah, yeah, and really like your sales marketing team brings in the clients, but it is your scheduler that maintains that client for years potentially. So you want to make sure that you're helping them out any way you can, but also that they're accountable for the things that they cannot control.
Miriam Allred (43:23.41)
Yes. In the same kind of vein of KPIs and tracking, earlier in the conversation, you mentioned this phrase like analysis paralysis. What does that mean to you? And can you share maybe even a specific example of seeing an owner kind of caught in that trap?
Deanna Keppel (43:39.434)
Yes, and I probably is it's happening to me now. I've got an owner who is who is new and I've seen this with several owners, especially in the beginning is they need to make sure that all of their recruitment, their caregivers are buttoned up and ready to go before they will even consider getting out in the field and doing marketing and.
Miriam Allred (43:43.894)
Thank
Deanna Keppel (44:03.66)
What they do is they just get so hyper focused on making everything perfect in the office that months can go by before they actually are out there starting to look for clients. And then all those caregivers that they put all that work into are gone. So I see it a lot in the beginning where they need to have the foot on the pedal for both recruitment and marketing at the same time or else they'll never line up.
and you can't take your shift off of one, your focus off of one and put it on the other and then go back. So I see it a lot with the recruitment, wanting it perfect, especially in the beginning.
Miriam Allred (44:44.758)
Yeah, it's kind of that chicken or the egg. know, so many new owners say that, do I find my caregivers first or do I find my clients first? And what happens if I bring on caregivers? don't have clients. Like that is such a, you know, like a scary thought for them in the beginning and they don't know which, which approach to have, but like you're saying it's kind of like you have to do both and you just have to be scrappy at the beginning. You know, you have to, you have to find one, you have to fill the shifts. Like you just, it's really scrappy and kind of piece at the beginning. But I like what you're saying is sometimes they get
Deanna Keppel (45:04.078)
You do.
Miriam Allred (45:14.654)
Stuck at the beginning because they want it all perfect. They want it all buttoned up They know their reputation is on the line from that very first shift, but it it really shouldn't hold them back
Deanna Keppel (45:24.026)
And sometimes you gotta fake it till you make it. Get that client and then figure out the staffing or get those caregivers and then get the client. Because it's ever changing. So you've just gotta put faith in it and go full steam ahead of both.
Miriam Allred (45:38.23)
What about analysis paralysis later on when the business is bigger, more established? The way I almost think about it is some owners, because we've talked so much about benchmarking and data tracking over the last several years in home care, I almost worry that some owners get too focused on the numbers and on the metrics and their spreadsheets of KPIs are too big. It's like, okay, well, we've gone too far. Sometimes I think of analysis paralysis from that lens of like,
They're focused too much on the numbers in the KPIs. Do you see that or no?
Deanna Keppel (46:09.422)
I yes, like I have had especially those that are tracking like numbers every single week, which you do you want to track a high level number that knows that you're on track and that you're moving in the right direction, but.
our industry has such high swings. You could pick up three clients one week and then three of them pass away or go into the hospital the next. So trying to teach those owners to look at, you know, certain numbers every week and then maybe broaden that but only once a month. So you can see the actual overall trajectory as opposed to this up and down which can give owners a lot of anxiety of, I just lost two
200 hours and now what am I gonna do and they start to snowball into this metric isn't where it's supposed to be it's gonna impact and All these other metrics and just take me back to the beginning and you're like, no, no, like let's look at month over month Maybe it's not as bad as You're thinking you're still headed in the right direction
Miriam Allred (47:19.102)
I've always liked the term scorecard or even report card because those aren't dozens and dozens of metrics. It's the core functions of the business. Like you said, there's so much up and down in ebb and flow and home care. If you are too dialed into the numbers, you will be losing sleep over these numbers because there is so much fluctuation. I agree. There's really your weekly scorecard and even your monthly scorecard.
And don't get me wrong, every role, every department can have numbers within those numbers, but as an owner and kind of high level, it should be kind of like scorecard, report card mentality where there's kind of the key metrics that are moving the business forward.
Deanna Keppel (47:51.874)
Yep.
Deanna Keppel (48:00.686)
Yeah. And then if you're starting to see a pattern where one is not where it should be, that's when you dive in a little bit more. But if things are moving in the right direction, you don't want to waste time looking into KPIs over and over again, when you're actually performing well in that KPI.
Miriam Allred (48:19.222)
Exactly. I want you to do a little bit of storytelling. One of the things that I like to ask corporate teams are what are some of the harder conversations that you've had with owners? Take a drink because I need you to tell me a good juicy story here. Just some of the harder conversations that you've had. Every owner is different, their challenges are different. This business is not for the faint of heart.
Deanna Keppel (48:34.395)
my god.
Miriam Allred (48:42.258)
I imagine in your years and years with the corporate team, you've had to have some hard conversations. What comes to mind?
Deanna Keppel (48:50.018)
Really, think, this isn't common, but we have a lot of husband-wife teams or family teams that have gotten into this business together. And there have been those tough conversations around spouses, either one of them not pulling their weight or one of them not doing what they should within the business. So I've had a lot of conversations surrounding that of,
I'm trying to, I think it's,
Miriam Allred (49:23.402)
How do you navigate that with them?
Deanna Keppel (49:25.728)
Yes, it's family dynamics. Like we even had a father son team and it was not good for their relationship. And that was the conversation, you know, I had to have to say, is this business worth your relationship? If obviously it's not. So what do we need to do to either get one of you out of the day to day and the other can focus on growing the business without this tension in between?
And that's ultimately what happened is I think the son went and found another job. He was still somewhat involved on the back end, but it wasn't that day-to-day interaction that was causing a lot of tension between them.
Miriam Allred (50:08.278)
This is tricky. You turn into like counselor, psychologist. You're like, whoa, this isn't what I signed up for, but here I am caught in the middle of that.
Deanna Keppel (50:10.606)
you
Yeah, you're like, yeah, but that's their business. And that's, know, your life when your business owner comes into it and vice versa. So I've got one couple that she called me the other day and she said, he did it again. I was like, what did he do? And she said, well, he talked about work before we were at the office and he knows not to bring that up at home. So it was like helping them set the boundaries of you work together, you live together.
you know, maybe you don't talk about work until you get into the office, if you can. Or I think they ended up putting in a code word of, need to step into my office at home. And that's the only time you can talk about, about Assisting Hands. So.
Miriam Allred (50:57.744)
You've probably seen enough of this to where you maybe bring it up when people are looking into Assisting Hands, when they're looking into franchise. You have a spouse duo or a sibling duo come to you. Maybe that's a part of the early conversation of like, let's talk about boundaries and expectations. Would you say you guys bring that up early on?
Deanna Keppel (51:11.714)
Yeah.
Deanna Keppel (51:17.804)
Yeah, that's absolutely part of like our opening discussion is, know, where do you see people? Where do you see each other fit? And what does that person or do you need to allow the other person to do their job and their role that they've that they've chosen or created? So even with owners, whether they're
family member or not, I always recommend that they put together a job description for themselves. And if you do have a spousal team that you know, maybe they're overstepping, you can go back and say, well, what's in your job description? What do you own? And where, you know, why do you feel there's a need to overstep into that into this person's role?
Miriam Allred (52:03.158)
Yeah, that's great, great advice. And honestly applicable across like the whole admin team, like job descriptions are in some cases can be like underutilized. It's like, it's all a little bit gray. It's like, this person loosely does all of these things. Like, I like that you're referencing it from like an ownership, like again, like spouses or siblings, like having very clearly defined job descriptions. But I think there's just demand for that usually across the office is like,
Deanna Keppel (52:28.856)
Yeah.
Miriam Allred (52:29.226)
What is everyone's job description? And when they're falling outside of that, what do we do? Or when they're not pulling their weight, what do we do? Like that's just a really important lever for businesses to keep an eye on.
Deanna Keppel (52:39.36)
And it's a great tool for them to know when to bring somebody else on. So if you've got three people and they write down their job description and they say, okay, this is what something I can't do anymore. You can make a third, you know, a fourth bucket of these are the responsibilities that no longer fall under me or no longer applicable. I don't want to do them anymore, especially as the owner. And that helps you build the job description for your next hire of, okay, this is what we're looking for. That's going to best
support my team.
Miriam Allred (53:11.166)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a really good exercise to just get everyone aligned because sometimes this maybe isn't super relevant in home care because we're oftentimes pushing the boundaries on roles of filling people's time because of margins. But sometimes there's people that are in between. They're doing some things, but they could be doing more and you have to find them and identify what they're doing.
Deanna Keppel (53:36.81)
Mm-hmm.
Miriam Allred (53:37.044)
A good way to do that is have everyone kind of like writing their job descriptions and seeing what they're up to. And then again, expanding the team or not usually retracting the team, but that can happen in other organizations at times.
Deanna Keppel (53:47.672)
Yeah, yeah. And the owner, like, what do you want your like, okay, you wear all these hats now, but what do you want your job to be? Like, is that just business ownership? Is that high level? Or do you like doing the sales and marketing? Are you the one who loves to go out and meet with clients or you love training caregivers? Like, that's helping the owner determine like where they see themselves best and what their strong points are.
Miriam Allred (54:14.112)
Mm-hmm.
Deanna Keppel (54:14.734)
because they could be doing sales, but they could say, you know, I hate it. I hate going out there. So, okay, well, let's find what your role is and then backfill what you need help with.
Miriam Allred (54:24.126)
Absolutely. And that's so important for just like sustainability and like overall happiness in the company is if the owner, you know, isn't happy with what they're doing, like that just trickles down to everybody else. Talk to me about like how much time owners should be spending on the business versus in the business at every stage. And when I say every stage you know, you think of like early days, kind of building and then scaling, like how much time are your owners and do you recommend they spend?
Deanna Keppel (54:35.298)
Yep.
Miriam Allred (54:52.262)
in the business versus on the business.
Deanna Keppel (54:54.946)
Yeah, so definitely in the beginning there are a lot more in the business, kind of learning those things, getting a feel for the industry if they don't already have experience, and also just getting a feel for how to be a business owner. So I think that split is usually 80 % in the business, 20 % on the business in the beginning. We want that to switch as quickly as possible. So even I would say at the six to 12 month mark, I'm wanting to see 50-50.
Like you're starting to get that foundation set and you're starting to work on the business. And then probably 18 months and on 80, 20, 80 % on the business, 20 % in the business.
Miriam Allred (55:39.03)
Okay. Yeah, that's great. That's pretty quick, but I don't know, that feels reasonable. If people are working hard and want to grow and doing things right, that seems like an optimal timeline, but maybe on the accelerated side.
Deanna Keppel (55:51.566)
It's a little on the accelerated side, but it kind of goes back to if you put the process in place now, it sets you up for growth later. So if you're still 80 % in the business three years from now, how are you growing?
You're too focused on that day to day and then once you do want to get out Your office staff is too reliable on you caregivers won't talk to anybody but you the all the clients know your phone number It's a harder pull away from the longer you're in that day today
Miriam Allred (56:27.35)
What about owners that hit that plateau? I do think there's these plateaus in home care where owners just hit a place and they want to maintain, it turns into lifestyle business or they're just content with where it's at and just want to ride that out. Do you see a lot of that happening?
Deanna Keppel (56:53.582)
We do, we actually have a fair amount.
of franchise owners that success is different to everybody. And if they're happy and they're profitable and they're, you know, want to stay where they're at because that's what they're doing and that's what they enjoy. We do understand and recognize that we still will try, you know, coach on various things that they could improve on or, you know, keep help keeping the momentum going in some areas. A majority of our owners though, they, they've
very lofty goals that they're going after, they're achieving, and they're seeing what's next.
Miriam Allred (57:35.818)
Yeah, like you said, success looks different for everyone. just, think home care is so unique and that you see it and it may be all businesses are, you know, I'm biased because I've been in this industry for a while. It's just, you see a little bit of everything. You see people that, you know, want to grow to the ends of the earth, but you also see people that kind of get to this comfortable, profitable place and just want to maintain that. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's just, you know, from my observation, interesting that everyone
Deanna Keppel (57:47.874)
Yes.
Miriam Allred (58:03.22)
Success looks different for everyone and you see kind of all different strategies and approaches to these home care businesses.
Deanna Keppel (58:09.002)
One of our very first franchisees, she's wonderful. She's in California, but she's like, I've never done marketing. All of my clients are word of mouth. And that's the only way you'll find me is word of mouth. And that's just how she's grown a very successful business. But she's also like, I'm not going out and pounding on doors to increase my revenue. It'll all come organically to me. And that's just how she's, she's set it up.
Miriam Allred (58:34.934)
Yeah, sweet.
Exactly. And no right or wrong way. It's just her approach and how she wants to do things. And that's, that's a beautiful thing about home care is there is no one right way and you can succeed in so many different ways, which makes it so fun and exciting, especially from you, from like the corporate lens, you get to see all of these owners doing all these different things and you have insights and advice and coaching, but you also kind of, you know, maybe take a little bit of a backseat of like,
Deanna Keppel (58:41.102)
Amen.
Yeah.
Miriam Allred (59:05.001)
you know, let's ride this out together and see what success looks like for you and how you get there.
Deanna Keppel (59:08.654)
Yeah. And one of the things that we say all the time is Assisting Hands has guard rails, not train tracks. So we've got the core business. We've got our brand. We've got things, you know, our franchisees have to do, but we really look at the guard rails. Like you have this expertise or this background or this desire or passion. We're going to let you explore that and help you ride it along the wave with you and see what comes. And then those that
work, we're in part of a network that we share those ideas. And that's my favorite part is being that connector to say, well, if you want to try this, reach out to so and so and they've tried this and it worked really well or it didn't, but they've got some great suggestions on how you can make it work. So
Miriam Allred (59:54.932)
I love that guardrails and not train tracks. maybe you could, we didn't get to this, but I love this. Like one of the beautiful things about a franchise system is that peer networking. You you've got the corporate team, you've got your area reps, but you also have all these other owners across the country that are approaching things differently that have different strengths and different strategies. So have you all kind of
Deanna Keppel (01:00:10.648)
Yeah.
Miriam Allred (01:00:17.502)
bred something into the organization to like facilitate that or is it more loose than that and you are just kind of the connector to all these different parties?
Deanna Keppel (01:00:25.642)
Yeah, so we do have, we're just starting peer performance groups. So doing small groups of peers throughout the country, just meeting, you know, on a monthly basis to share those ideas. We have an internal intranet that our franchisees post on, ask questions to the FOFO, get a feel for, know, what people have done in the past. They can search previous conversations and posts. And then what we do that's a little different than a lot of the other franchise systems, I believe, is when we have our
annual conference, we usually end our meetings by noon or 1 p.m. and we allow for the afternoons to be strictly networking time. So we'll cut out some of the educational or some of the sponsor information so they know, all right, we're all meeting at the pool at two o'clock and that is honestly where they get the most value is networking and being in person with their peers.
Miriam Allred (01:01:20.926)
Yeah, I love that. And everyone listening to this franchise or independent, find and create that network around you is find the owners that push you, that are different, that have different profiles and business strategies and create your own network around you that you can collaborate with because there's so much power in learning from each other.
I love it. Deanna, this has been awesome. Just one last question, and this is going to be kind of high level, but think about your, you know, happiest, most successful thriving franchisees. What are they doing right? What are they doing differently? What are kind of the maybe two to three things that you just think that they are excelling at that attributes to some of their success?
Deanna Keppel (01:01:47.52)
Yeah!
Deanna Keppel (01:02:03.82)
Yeah, I think, you know, looking at all of our franchisees and those that really are doing it well, one is leadership. They inspire, they motivate their employees to perform the best and they hire smart people and get out of their way, really. But they have that leadership mentality that they're gonna motivate and let their employees do what they hired them to do.
adaptability, the open to change and willingness to adjust strategies as needed. I think we all learned from COVID that what you're doing now will no longer work and you need to adapt. You need to change and you need to get out there and change, you need to adapt basically. And then I also think just
Miriam Allred (01:02:52.822)
Yeah.
Deanna Keppel (01:02:56.29)
The coachability. Those franchisees that are open to listening to ideas, that are open to calling and saying, hey, can we brainstorm this? Tell me what you think about this. How can you coach me or point me in the right direction? Those owners are constantly rethinking and trying to find the next best thing. So I think the more they're open to feedback, the more successful they can be.
Miriam Allred (01:03:23.56)
Yeah, love that. All really good points. I'm glad we snuck that in here at the end because you're right. It's just kind of a sum of all the parts, all of these little things that owners focus on and push themselves on. Like that's where businesses are successful and thriving is just all of these kinds of micro changes that add up to macro changes in the business.
Deanna Keppel (01:03:42.412)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Miriam Allred (01:03:44.742)
Amazing. Well, Deanna, I know we've kind of taken this in a variety of different directions, but you have done so well and just kind of following along here and sharing so many expertise. I hope everyone's enjoyed listening to this because maybe some people don't know a whole lot about Assisting Hands, but you and your experience and what you see from this kind of macro level is so incredible. So thank you for joining me in the lab and thank you for sharing everything today.
Deanna Keppel (01:04:06.126)
Well, thank you for having me. I've enjoyed it.
Miriam Allred (01:04:08.55)
Awesome. We'll go ahead and wrap up here. Thank you again, Deanna, and we'll look forward to another episode again next week.